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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

RECAP: Golden State Warriors 114, Chicago Bulls 97 -- MLK Day Miracle

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ROY, meet ROY.

Bulls vs Warriors boxscore | Preview/ Game Thread (780+ comments)

Warriors Game Day Links- Golden State D-Leaguers getting it done

Chicago Bulls fan reactions @ Blog a Bull

In Don Nelson's words, the Warriors joined battle with the Bulls in this game with "seven and a half" players. The half being Devean George, who is still limited in his return from injury.  Three of the seven remaining players are D-league rookies.  But the Warriors got solid contributions from their D-leaguers, and huge games from Monta Ellis, Corey Maggette, Stephen Curry and Andris Biedrins, that allowed them to steal this win against the red-hot Bulls. This win was all the sweeter for coming on Martin Luther King day, in front of thousands of screaming young fans who got the day off from school in honor of one of the greatest of all Americans.  Your faithful reporter joined his fellow GSoMers and the kids and chaperones of Dream League, El Camino YMCA Warriors, Oakland Unity High School and St. Joseph Fremont Lifeteen Youth Group in Section 211 of the Oracle for the second GSoM Kids Day. What a great day to watch another inspiring effort from the short-handed Warriors, that this time ended in a satisfying win.

Star-divide

Despite the final score, the game was more than usually suspenseful until late in the fourth quarter. Stephen Curry picked up 3 fouls in the first quarter.  Maggette and Biedrins quickly joined him in foul trouble.  Everyone could sense a repeat of the last game against the Bucks, when the Warriors were reduced to four players and required the invocation of Rule 3(1a) for the first time in NBA history. But aided by the terrific defensive play of two of their recent D-league callups, Cartier Martin and Anthony Tolliver, the Warriors were somehow able to weather the foul trouble storm, and go into the break up a point at 54-53.

In the third quarter, everyone could sense fatigue beginning to set in.  This has been a bit of a theme for the short-handed Warriors.  The Bulls took a  three point lead with 2:21 left in the quarter.  But spearheaded by some great team defense and two big Stephen Curry shots, the Warriors went on a 9-2 run to seize a four point advantage to end the quarter.  And the Warriors never looked back, breaking the game open mid-way through the fourth.

Lets take a look at the individual performances:

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10 from the Russian judge.

Monta Ellis:  Monta looked fatigued at points in this game.  He couldn't buy a mid-range jumper.  But he didn't let it stop him from attacking the rim again and again.  And he distributed the ball beautifully for the third straight game, getting 8 assists against 2 turnovers.  You might want to quibble with his 39 shots to make 36 points (Nellie joked post-game that he didn't know if any Warrior since Wilt had ever taken that many shots). But that's what it would be, a quibble.  He again put the team on his back with a huge effort on both ends of the court for 48 minutes.

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Who's Paul Pierce?

Corey Maggette:  Maggette turned in another routine effort.  By routine, I mean his 17th straight game scoring over 25 points and shooting over 60%.  32 points on 14 shots routine.  While guarding Luol Deng, who was held to 7-16, mostly from the perimiter, and Taj Gibson (3-7).  And he picked up a routine 6 rebounds and 5 assists as well.

This is the kind of praise I have heard Maggette get from the media recently: "Corey Maggette's not the problem." And "You have to give Corey Maggette credit."  As if the commentator had his arm being twisted behind his back.

I don't get it.  This is the kind of praise I give Corey Maggette: Name 5 small-forwards in the NBA who are playing better than he is.

Capt

I block that stuff with my eyes closed.

Andris Biedrins:  Does Beans read GSoM? In his first game since Atma Brother One called him out, Beans put together a monster performance, and dominated his matchup against the second-leading rebounder in the NBA, Joakim Noah. 19 boards and 8 blocks.  Beans was huge in the paint in this game, anchoring the Warriors' formidable defensive effort.  The Bulls shot 37% for the game, and the greatest credit for that goes to Biedrins. Welcome back, Beans.

A nice sidelight occurred in this game, when Biedrins finally made his first free throw of the season.  The whole Oracle crowd got behind him as he was shooting each attempt, and took the roof off when actually managed to put one in.  A new Oracle tradition being born?  We better hope not.

Of course, Biedrins finished a mere 1-7 from the line, and was so demoralized that he requested that Nelson protect him from being embarrassed by the Hack-a-Beans.  As Nelson admitted after the game, this led to Nelson getting faked out in the third quarter, when he removed Biedrins immediately after he was intentionally fouled, until he realized that the Bulls were nowhere close to being in the penalty.  Biedrins went right back in on the next possession.

Nellie also joked post-game that "I keep threatening to bring Rick Barry back."  This shouldn't be a joke at this point. Biedrins needs to go to the underhand shot.  C'mon Beans, don't be afraid to look like a girl. Man up!

Stephen Curry:  A monster performance from the Warriors rookie going head to head against last year's rookie of the year.  We're getting used to the phenomenal efficiency: 9-18 shooting, including 5-8 from three. We've seen the phenomenal court vision, and amazing passing ability: great looks on the fast break, a beautiful lock and lob to Maggette, and a called alley-oop inbounds play to Monta over the backboard from the left corner behind the end line, that would have brought the house down if Monta had managed to finish it.  We're getting used to his uncanny knack for rebounding among the trees: 10 in this game.

But how about his defense on Derrick Rose?  Curry guarded Rose most of the game, and forced him into 7-19. In the fourth quarter in particular, Curry's defense on Rose helped break this game open.  Twice he forced Rose into difficult fading shots, secured the rebound himself, and ignited the fast break. On another Rose drive, Curry blocked his shot, leading to another fast break. And at 4:08 of the fourth, Curry turned Rose over, and hit the game-sealing three at 3:51.

This is what Don Nelson had to say about Stephen Curry post-game:  After a lot of hard work, Curry has turned into "a pretty darn good defensive point guard."  Curry has "the total package. He's quite a point guard." "I don't know that any rookie point guard is better than him."

This is not insignificant praise from the coach who developed Moncrief, Hardaway and Nash.

The D-League All-Stars: Chris Hunter was unfortunately invisible in this game. He didn't manage a rebound, and Jim Barnett called him out for his failure to finish a pick and roll.

Fortunately, the Warriors got incredible efforts from their newest additions, Cartier Martin and Anthony Tolliver. Not on the offensive end, of course, where they were a jittery 4-18.  Martin did hit a big three in crunch time, though, and Tolliver made a nice finish inside on a Monta Ellis feed.

Martin and Tolliver were huge on defense, though, and in particular on the boards. They combined for 17 rebounds against the Bulls big front line.  Both of these guys have big NBA-ready bodies, and know how to use them in blocking out.  Nellie mentioned post-game that their efforts are what allowed Biedrins to be so effective.  

Martin in particular seems to be a great defender.  He has a nose for the loose ball. And he played terrific defense on Deng in the fourth.

Of course, the game wouldn't be complete without a Warriors injury.  Tolliver went out of the game in the fourth quarter with a gimpy knee after Brad Miller fell on him.

And then there were 6.  And a half.

Wonder_medium_medium_medium

Maggette had another monster game.  But this one goes to the kid.  Stephen Curry.


Poll
Think the unthinkable. Who will be the better point guard?
Derrick Rose
297 votes
Stephen Curry
776 votes

1073 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 93 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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39 shots...

One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!

Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!

by ejdacanay on Jan 18, 2010 11:05 PM PST reply actions  

Lol did you watch ESPN?

The last person was who took 39 shots without getting 40 points was MJ. And he got 29. Just had to point that out.

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Jan 18, 2010 11:20 PM PST up reply actions  

No, I was watching Inside the NBA and Chuck was basically shocked that he took that many,

One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!

Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!

by ejdacanay on Jan 18, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m surprised Kobe has never managed that.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 18, 2010 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Kobe did it more than a few times in these last couple of weeks

He had 37 shots for 32 points against Portland. Kobe had 30 shots on 30 points against the Clippers. A week before that, Kobe was 11 for 33 against Cleveland. Today, Kobe was 4-19 with 11 points. But you’ll never hear that from those bias fools.

by illmaticwarrior on Jan 19, 2010 12:12 AM PST up reply actions  

what are you talking about? ESPN isn't biased towards Kobe.

I think everybody knows who’s the golden boy of nba

by A2mm2o on Jan 19, 2010 12:13 AM PST up reply actions  

espn can’t manage a bias that favors two separate players? it’s a star driven league and espn makes its money promoting stars. a fair amount of players get treated like gods by them. kobe seems to get some of the best press i’ve ever seen for a player. the man had an absolutely pathetic attempt at a documentary done about how great he was and what a team player he had become. kobe gets more than his share of media love.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 19, 2010 12:38 AM PST up reply actions  

What else was he supposed to do?

He was playing with Goose, Corey, a rookie and 3 D-Leaguers! He did what he had to do. I was more impressed with Curry’s play though. The rookie knocked down a lot of shots yesterday and they were passes from Monta, which is good for their confidence.

Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!

by JonDoe on Jan 19, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Yep yep,

I was at the game, boy was it great, but Maggette was the WW for this game, 11 for 14!!! and 10 for 11!!!!
He just got everything he wanted…

by Lew Ghost on Jan 18, 2010 11:24 PM PST reply actions  

39 shots

Sure, that’s a lot of shots but it’s not like we had a bunch of guys out there that should be taking shots.

This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM

by disguy on Jan 19, 2010 12:30 AM PST reply actions  

Rose is a better scoring guard FOR NOW ....

but Curry will be better for years to come,not a biased comment by the way.

Curry basically has a higher basketball IQ than Rose and he is a rookie!

Also,Monta Ellis took 39 shots today because there were really only 2 other players that can actually score the ball.

by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Jan 19, 2010 12:41 AM PST reply actions  

I bet Curry has a higher IQ

because he’s played so many minutes already. When is the last time a rookie point guard has been thrust into the NBA and gotten hardly any bench time? The dude’s out there constantly, therefore learning constantly. Great kid!

by jimmycaps on Jan 19, 2010 6:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Spanish RECAP! Great win

El mejor Biedrins y la mejor defensa, para una buena y contundente victoria de los Warriors frente a los Bulls (97-114)

http://losgswarriors.blogspot.com/2010/01/el-mejor-biedrins-y-la-mejor-defensa.html

Warriors ¡¡ EN ESPAÑOL !!!!
www.losgswarriors.blogspot.com

by R1Molano on Jan 19, 2010 1:30 AM PST reply actions  

I would have given the Warrior Wonder to Biedrins

It was great to see Biedrins looking like his old self for one game. He was 2 blocks and 1 pt away from a triple double, which I think would be his first. I’ve never seen so many angry blocks out of him. Usually his blocks are soft and quiet, but he was swatting them away with a little pep behind it when he missed his FTs. I want to see him keep this up for the rest of the season.

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 19, 2010 4:20 AM PST reply actions  

Biedrins

I also probably would have leaned that way narrowly over Curry. He was a much-needed beast in the paint, and it’s about time. Even the biggest of Andris supporters couldn’t have seen a 19-rebound, 8-block performance.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 19, 2010 6:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh yeah? How would you explain this email I got yesterday morning?

Dear Sleepy,

AB grabs 19 boards and swats 8 shots today. Book it.

Best regards,
Lat We N Trash

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

were you at oracle?

Beidrins made free throw got the crowd rokin! it was awesome

by 4Ever Golden on Jan 19, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d rather have biedrins shoot 60-80% free throws than the oracle rocking over a 1-7 at the line performance.

WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...

by JustSomeName on Jan 19, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d rather have Biedrins get 19 boards and 8 blocks than have him make 60-80% of his free throws.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 19, 2010 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Word.

That’s the Biedrins I remember last year and the one that I drafted for my fantasy team this year. It’s good to see him in good form again. Hopefully last night’s performance will boost his confidence and get him consistant again.

Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!

by JonDoe on Jan 19, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

if you ever saw him in college...

and i saw almost every game he played, then you would know that his court intuition has always been exceptional. Prolly due to growing up around the game, etc. But certainly his large number of minutes has helped him learn at an even faster pace. I think it is amazing what he is doing on this team. none of the other good rookie point guards are on a more depleted or smaller team, yet his numbers are still solid. You put jennings or lawson on this team and they would be exposed. I would say he looks at least as good as nash, rondo, parker, et al. did in their ROOKIE season, it is just hard to think now that these guys made a lot of mistakes then as well. If you look at the top ten assist men, 7 are PGs. Of these, only Kidd and Paul had obviously better rookie seasons, and they are future Hall of Famers and not hybrid guards like curry (they are pure PGs…neither shoot as well as curry, but they were obviously better off the dribble).This kid will only get better and i can’t wait to see it…btw, maggette is an absolute beast these days.

by gswcats on Jan 19, 2010 7:28 AM PST reply actions  

Amen to that... +1

However not all agree and Onlxn here seems to think that the kid is “one of the worst playmakers in basketball”…. but we each have our views and mine is the complete opposite, this kid is DAMN good. Even in the just the last two games… we are starting to see the pieces starting to gel together…. that many of us have seen from day one.

Yes he is still making mistakes…but damn….. I stand by my prediction in the pointless trade machine thread….I think this kid could very well be an ALL-STAR in two years…

He did a fantastic job on Rose… and if anyone questions his passing ability…then they simply are not watching the same guy… I truly hope we keep hold of him…next year will be a superb improvement over this year and a candidate for most improved player I would wager…and then 2011/2012…..Oh mumma…stand back as I suspect that will be the break out year where people will say…“is this the same kid that used to foul so much and didnt get the credit of Evans and Jennings in his rookie year???”…

In the words of the great wise sage Monta Ellis…I think we have a future “supasta”! ;)

"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"

by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 19, 2010 9:49 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

'Even in just the last two games'....bloody rogue 'the'

"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"

by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 19, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Dog, this really isn’t the game where you want to be hyping Curry’s playmaking.

He had a great game precisely because he’s adapting to what he is: a shooting guard. And he could be a real good one… I’m excited to see him develop. But he had several horrible turnovers in this game. Of the 45 NBA point guards that have played significant minutes this season, Stephen Curry’s assist/turnover ratio ranks 44th. There are eight other rookies with better passing numbers than Curry. Curry’s passing efficiency isn’t even anything special for a two. If you’re seeing something a good playmaker here, you’re not looking closely enough.

In fact, not only is Steph Curry not a good point guard, he is no longer our point guard. The truth is, Monta took the reins in the half-court a couple weeks ago. And the results are apparent in their January numbers:

Monta Ellis: 6.1 assists, 3.9 turnovers, 1.58 A/TO
Stephen Curry: 4.3 assists, 2.9 turnovers, 1.48 A/TO

Monta’s running the show now, and it’s a better show for it; Monta’s better at penetrating and kicking it out than Curry is, and Curry’s most useful when letting it rain from the outside. January is the first month where this backcourt has been genuinely productive on offense, and the reason is that Monta’s passing more and Curry’s passing less. It’s not a Curry/Monta backcourt… it’s a Monta/Curry backcourt. Monta’s our point guard, Curry’s our shooting guard. It’s been that way for awhile now.

It’s reasonable to be very excited about Stephen Curry, but expecting him to become a brilliant point guard is only going to get you disappointed. The team is already starting to give up on that idea, no matter what they claim in the media… it’s time the fans started thinking that way too.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Sorry, this is simply incorrect

Curry has been playing the point most games, with Monta off the ball. Nellie said post-game that Chicago was trying to deny Monta’s entry passes, so he made the decision to just let Monta bring the ball up the court and get into his offense that way. In this game.

But the distinction is meaningless. Both Curry and Monta are point guards, and very good ones, in very different ways.

For you to insist that Curry isnt’ a true point guard, based on his current stats, is simply ridiculous. Not being able to see what a truly gifted passer Curry is with your own eyes is simply shameful in such a serious basketball observer. You need to put your stats aside, and concentrate on what you see on the court. Curry is one of the most gifted passers in the league, as a rookie. No one on the Warriors sees the open man like he does, no one runs the pick and roll like he does, no one hits his man in shooting rhythmn like he does. If Curry actually played for a team that had a traditional shooting guard, he would be putting up 8-10 assists a game.

You are going to feel pretty silly going forward if you keep insisting that Curry is a shooting guard. The hall-of-fame coach who is arguably the best in league history at developing point guards insists very strongly that not only is Curry a point guard, he is a point guard with the “total package” and “the best rookie point guard in the league.” Even if I didn’t have the benefit of what my own two eyes are telling me, I’d put my money on Nellie.

by Feltbot on Jan 19, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The hall-of-fame coach who is arguably the best in league history at developing point guards insists very strongly that not only is Curry a point guard, he is a point guard with the "total package" and "the best rookie point guard in the league."

that hall of fame coach insisted mike dunleavy was a natural 4. i love nellie, but taking his word for it is usually a risky proposition at best. he’s too media savvy to tell the truth all the time.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 19, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

What Nellie was saying in that instance was that Dunleavy sucked at the 3. I think he was completely sincere about that, and think he’s sincere in his comments about Curry as well :>

by Feltbot on Jan 19, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

lol

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 19, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure what angle you’re working here, but if you’re going to trust what Nellie says to the media over what actually happens on the court, there’s just not much hope for you.

Monta has been initiating the half-court offense more than three times as often as Curry this month, and they’ve been initiating offense on the break more or less equally. Curry is creative on the break, and an unselfish passer, but horrible in the half-court… if you think he’s better than Monta at running the pick-and-roll, you’re not paying attention. Curry has no sense, whatsoever, of where other defenders are on the court. And the old “if he were on ____ he’d be averaging ____” talking point holds no water here, as every Warrior has strong passing numbers for their position except for Maggette and Curry. Monta converted tons of assists from Baron; he’s not exactly a difficult guy to connect with.

I can’t even tell if you’re sincerely trying to analyze the Warriors or working some weird gimmick, but the evidence, both on the court and the stat sheet, is unequivocal. Curry’s a bad point guard, and he’s no longer running this team. When you try to argue that he’s not only a good passer but one of the best in the league, it’s at the expense of your own credibility.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure what angle you’re working here,

Seems pretty straightforward, no? The shameless homer / slobbering Curry fanboy angle.

I oughtta know, ‘cos I’m basically in the slobbering tank with Feltbot and Brit, pulling desperately for the kid to become the second coming of Nash, against most available evidence. Heck, even the Sleepyette, who most of the time would rather file her nails than watch hoops, has totally fallen for the sweet new kid with the baby face and the chew-toy and the killer J.

Which is to say: while I totally admire your objectivity on Curry, Owen, I also kinda hate you for it…

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He has a calm to his game rarely seen.

He is a freakin rookie and his growth this first 1/2 season has been staggering. This kid is going to be a top 3 point guard in the league, This is NOT hyperbole. Just obvious fact,

by Eschew Obfuscation on Jan 19, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

This is NOT hyperbole. Just obvious fact.

Haha. I may have to make this my new sig line…

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Let's not call him top 3

there is CP3, Williams, Nash, Rondo, Rose, and probably a few that I am forgetting. I’d be happy if he was anywhere close to that level

by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 19, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope he ends up top 10

I don’t know about a perennial all star, but probably a couple appearances in his career.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 19, 2010 5:29 PM PST up reply actions  

It should really be referred to as his pacifier, not his chew toy.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Jan 19, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

well

You know normally would suck on a pacifier.

This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM

by disguy on Jan 19, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I hear you, player. But why not slobber over the things that Curry’s actually really, really good at? He’s currently the seventh-best three-point shooter in the league, and rising by the week; the kid’s shot is gorgeous. And his defense, while still bad and mistake-prone, has shown more improvement than his passing has. He really is improving; he really is looking pretty good. He’s just not looking like a point guard.

And frankly, this shouldn’t be all that shocking. This is a guy who had a distinctly un-point-guard-like 1.24 assist/turnover ratio in college, despite facing pretty weak defenses on average. And going into last year’s draft, while everyone agreed that he could shoot, nobody was sure whether or not he could be a good point guard. We all talked ourselves into his playmaking genius coming into the season (I was as guilty as anyone), but what was that based on, really? A couple preseason games? Nellie BSing about his potential, the way he BSes about everything else?

It’s not impossible that Curry will become a great playmaker all of a sudden, but there’s just no good reason to think that he will. He’s never been a great playmaker. But he has been a great shooter, and that skill has held up and then some. And his stroke, combined with his intelligence and speed, is enough to make him a pretty intriguing young player.

I’m all for excitement over Curry; frankly, I continue to feel it. But let’s not get excited about parts of his game that aren’t there. We’ll all enjoy him more if we celebrate what he is, and stop trying to wishcast him into something he isn’t. He can still get really good, really fun and really helpful as a shooting guard. And if we can find a great playmaker to set him up, he can get even better.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Every post....you try to sound a little less harsh on the guy...

I admire your insistence to continue to tell people what the actual truth is with comments like…

But let’s not get excited about parts of his game that aren’t there. We’ll all enjoy him more if we celebrate what he is, and stop trying to wishcast him into something he isn’t.

Or maybe you could just let people feel what they see with the kid and maybe just once or twice throw a ‘in my opinion’ in there….rather than trying to make it sound like your view is fact…trust me…the slice of humble pie becomes a lot smaller when your comments are based on clearly stated ‘opinion’ rather than a more formal statement….one of the many things I have learned here..

This was also a doozy…

The team is already starting to give up on that idea, no matter what they claim in the media…

Again…if you can even vaguely show how this is anything other than Onlxn fantasy juice…then its a bit of a silly statement to make… as everyone else is watching Curry hadle the rock, UNLESS, the other team shuts Monta down.. in which case it is much more sensible to let Monta handle the ball and leave Curry free to shoot as he is a much better shooter than Monta…NOT because Monta is a much better ball handler..which in my opinion..he simply isnt…

But the biggest U Turn…is this one…

It’s not impossible that Curry will become a great playmaker all of a sudden

from just the other day

one of the worst playmakers in basketball

Seems to me you are now just covering your bases, considering how heavily your opinion seems to be outnumbered… You getting that Custer feeling yet! :-)

As I said….we’ll see… but I think that statement …is going to haunt you like a TK rumour….Ooooooooooooooohhhhh (in a ghostly voice)…. and I will probably be “the ghost of GSOM past” to remind you!!

lol :p

"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"

by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 19, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

You are neither reading nor watching the games very carefully.

I’ve been consistent from the beginning: Curry has the potential to be a very good player, but has been a terrible point guard thus far, and there’s no reason to think he has potential to be good in that way. And of late, it would seem that the Warriors agree: Monta is now running the vast majority of the plays, and the team is doing a bit better on offense as a result.

Of course it’s not impossible that Curry will become a great playmaker all of a sudden. It’s not impossible that Vladimir Radmanovic will become a great playmaker all of a sudden. Anything’s possible. But thus far, Curry has been a very, very bad playmaker. And since he’s never been a good playmaker in his basketball career, and is actually getting worse, it seems to me that the Steve Nash comparisons should probably be shelved for a little while.

And yes, this is all in my opinion… I’d think that’s implied. I don’t actually know what will happen any more than you do. But I’d contend that I’m looking at these things a little more rationally than you are. I’m not the one suggesting that the second-worst passing point guard in basketball has Hall of Fame written all over him.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

“but there’s just no good reason to think that he will.” (Stupid question, how do you use the quote function?)

Three good reasons (in case you’ve been to busy researching stats to see him already doing it):

1) Don Nelson: “The best basketball player I’ve had since Steve Nash.”
2) Bobby Knight: “As good a passer as has EVER played college basketball.”
3) Feltbot: “Already one of the best passers in the league.”

Weight those as you see fit :>

by Feltbot on Jan 19, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

(Stupid question, how do you use the quote function?)

Copy/Paste the part you want to quote, highlight it, then click on the little quote button inbetween the link button and the strikethrough button.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 19, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Copy/Paste the part you want to quote

TY!

by Feltbot on Jan 19, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I use this argument for just about every point I want to make about Warriors players(because it’s usually true)….

Curry would have a better ast/to if he played on a team other than the Warriors. Not only do the Warriors play an up-tempo style, but often the PG isn’t getting a lot of help from his teammates (other than Maggs).

BTW you just helped make my point:

every Warrior has strong passing numbers for their position except for Maggette and Curry.

Who are the other Warriors passing the ball to successfully? Maggs and Curry.
Who are Maggs and Curry passing the ball to that aren’t getting it done? Rest of the Warriors.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 19, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

cj, morrow and monta are all pretty good passing targets. we have plenty of offensive talent. the argument that no one on the team has anyone to pass to is tired and untrue.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 19, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta Ellis: 6.1 assists, 3.9 turnovers, 1.58 A/TO
Stephen Curry: 4.3 assists, 2.9 turnovers, 1.48 A/TO

So .1 A/TO ratio difference is supposed to make us believe that Monta is a PG and Curry isn’t? It seems pretty clear to me that this team still doesn’t have a guy that can run a half-court offense consistently.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 19, 2010 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn’t say Monta was a good point guard, either. You’re right — we don’t have a guy that can run a half-court offense consistently, which is why I don’t think this backcourt is going to work very well. At some point, we’re going to need an excellent playmaker.

But right now, the guy that’s running the offense is Monta, not Curry. It’s pretty obvious, if you watch the games.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s pretty obvious, if you watch the games.

Why does everyone say this? What IS obvious is that we all watch the games or we wouldn’t be here talking about the Warriors. What IS NOT obvious is what the definition of “running the offense” in this system is. Is it just who has the ball when they cross the half-court line? That changes all the time. Is it who has the ball in the half-court before all the movement on offense happens? That could easily be Maggette as much as it is Monta or Curry.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 19, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it who has the ball in the half-court before all the movement on offense happens?

That’s more or less how I’d define it: which Warrior is given control of the ball when they face a set defense in the half-court. Who is relied upon to make the first decision?

In yesterday’s game, for instance, I counted eighty half-court initiations for the Warriors — eighty times that they faced a set Bulls defense and had to decide how to attack it. Eight of those times, the ball started in the hands of Maggette, Martin or Biedrins. 21 times, the ball started in the hands of the Curry. The other 51 times, it was Monta who initiated the offense, including just about every possession in the fourth quarter. Curry deferred to Monta when the game got close, as he has for a while now.

Now, whether that’s Nellie’s decision, or Monta’s, or Curry’s, or just random, I can’t tell you. I can only tell you what I’m seeing, which is that Monta is our primary initiator in the half-court right now. He’s the one who works screen-and-rolls with Ronny and Beans; he’s the one who works give-and-gos with Maggette; he’s the one who drives and kicks to Curry and whatever other shooters we have available. Curry has been focusing more on getting open for threes, as well he should; he hasn’t initiated in the half-court much lately, and hasn’t had good luck doing it when he’s tried. (His twenty-one initiations yesterday included a dribble off his foot out of bounds, a dribble off his foot into a jump ball, a drive that he kneed out of bounds and got a lucky call on, a whip underneath that was deflected and very nearly picked off, and a drive-and-kick straight to a Bull, with no Warrior within feet of where the pass was aimed.)

In an offense this formless and chaotic, it’s not always clear who’s doing what, and who’s supposed to be doing what. But in terms of playmaking, our offense is currently tilted pretty far in one direction. Monta has the ball, Monta makes the decisions. He’s running our offense.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I can't believe you sat down and counted the half court possession

You are basketball obsessed, man.

Anyway, on the Nellie post game, he said he kept going with a 2 man play starting with Monta in the 4th qtr because the Bulls hadn’t stopped it. So at least for last night’s game, most of Monta’s 4th qtr plays were called by Nellie.

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 19, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Right. But that’s sort of the point — Nellie’s been doing more and more lately. It’s not like yesterday’s was the first game where Monta initiated the offense more than Curry. And it’s not like the fourth quarter was aberrant, either; Monta initiated the offense far more often than Curry in the first three quarters, as well.

Of late, Monta has been doing most of the playmaking, and our offense has improved as a result. That’s a good thing. I just don’t know why we have to pretend that Stephen Curry’s been making the plays. He’s our shooting guard.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 19, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

-5

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Jan 19, 2010 7:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Should we cut Hunter and get someone else?

He’s struggling majorly and we can’t afford this with all the injuries.

by mosdl on Jan 19, 2010 11:01 AM PST reply actions  

too late

He’s signed a contract for the remainder of the year…

WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...

by JustSomeName on Jan 19, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

To be completely honest:

Steph is going to be better. Rose is cool but I just don’t see him becoming a true superstar. He’ll probably stay in the realm of the Rondo’s of the world.

by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Jan 19, 2010 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

He’ll probably stay in the realm of the Rondo’s of the world.

yeah, i’d hate my point guard to be a great passer, rebounder and defender who can get to the basket at will. if stephen curry is in rajon rondo’s class of point guards, we should do backflips. if rose does that, his career will be a success.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 19, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Rose is not the defender that Rondo

His defense is overrated to me every since he had that game saving block against Boston in the playoffs.
He’s a mediocre player and gets exposed easily, especially against guards that can post him up on the low block.

by Richboievans on Jan 19, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Steph has been playing really well lately

but for anyone to suggest that he’s going to be better than Rose is absurd. Talk about losing any credibility. Didn’t anyone watch that Bulls-Celtics playoff series last year? Rose was incredible. The Bulls would laugh in Larry Riley’s face if he tried offering them Curry for Rose.

by sjsnider on Jan 19, 2010 1:03 PM PST reply actions  

+1 sjinsider...

Rose is still way better than Curry…I would trade Curry for Rose straight up in an instant…Come on peeps, I know everyone is a dubs fan but to have that many pairs of rose-colored glasses going around is ridiculous…Curry is good but Rose is still a lot better and going to be better going forward. I’m just saying, I like curry as much as the next guy but to say that he is that much better than Rose after 1 good game against him, just a little short sighted.

by UCdubsFan on Jan 19, 2010 1:10 PM PST reply actions  

As a point guard?

Rose seems very uncomfortable assuming the mantle of leadership on this team. The team’s record with Hinrich on and off the court in the last two seasons speaks volumes in that regard. And the Bull’s turnaround this year coincided exactly with Hinrich being reinserted into the starting lineup. The Warriors victory came with Hinrich out.

I would never give up Curry for Rose, for the simple reason that I would not give up someone who promises to be one of the best point guards in the league, for someone who may not even be a point guard.

by Feltbot on Jan 19, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I would never give up Curry for Rose, for the simple reason that I would not give up someone who promises to be one of the best point guards in the league, for someone who may not even be a point guard.

you could make the exact same argument by switching the names.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 19, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

The Bulls are one of the more mystifying teams in the league. Given that they play in the Leastern Conference, have a bunch of big dudes who can rebound and block shots, a blossoming stud in Rose, a solid PG in Hinrich, and some very talented wing players, they should really be a lot better than they are. What’s the deal?

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Jan 19, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Given that they play in the Leastern Conference

It’s long past time to give up the “Leastern Conference” generality. It’s a cute little wordplay, but it’s not an accurate representation of the game anymore.

Last season, there were far more truly terrible teams in the West than in the East, and while the last playoff spots in the East went to teams with worse records than the same in the West, the East overall had a winning record against the West and the top of the East had more depth than the top of the West. This year, it’s slipped back a bit, but there’s still much greater parity now than there was several years ago. The notion that this is still 2002 should be dismissed.

by jae on Jan 19, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

If you ask most GM’s they would take Rose in a heart beat. But we are all loyal fans here and expect Curry to be great. I do see that Rose seems a little uncomfortable being the leader and taking big shots and I think it has to do with his personality. He doesn’t really like to speak in public and seems to stay quiet. That being said I hope Curry stays a Warrior forever. He is our pg and future leader.

by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 19, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

In all honesty, I would never take a PG that can’t shoot a 3 to save his life. Sorry Rose & Rondo, that’s just how I would roll as a GM.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 19, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

That's my biggest problem with Rose and Rondo

I think a Rose/Ellis backcourt would be even worse than a Curry/Ellis backcourt.
Rondo might work alright with Ellis because he actually has playmaking ability.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 19, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting Rose’s ast/to is worse this season than it was his rookie season last year.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 19, 2010 1:37 PM PST reply actions  

yeah, rose is looking pretty mediocre this year. it’s fair to call this year a disappointment for him.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 19, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

One more thing: though I don’t expect this ridiculous argument to stop just yet, let’s please file this game under the supporting evidence against the supposition that having only one rebounder on the floor will inflate said player’s rebounding totals. Biedrins had 19 rebounds, and a lot of the credit for that goes to our big bodied D-Leaguers boxing out and helping to secure the paint.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Jan 19, 2010 2:11 PM PST reply actions  

I can't stand when people talk about who is a true point guard and who's not

You people that say Curry is not are retarded and blinded by stats sheets…just watch the darn game and enjoy how good curry, monta, and magz are playing right now. First all are players follow a system through the coaching of don nelson. In our system any player is encouraged to get to the hoop and take open shots. Point guards like Steve Nash and more comparable to curry, other rookie point guards like Jennings and Flynn, are handling the point guard duties all game and set up the offense all game with lots of pick and rolls. Plus Jennings has a beast in the paint in Bogut for easy assists just like Nash has STAT who finishes everything in the paint. Curry is awesome and will be very good in this league.

Now please explain to me what makes someone a “true” point guard if you can? Don’t most good point guards get their assists off of spot up shooters and big men in the paint? Well we don’t have any big men that can consistently score in the paint and when morrow is in Curry finds him ALWAYS. Our big scorers are Magz and monta and they are one on one players who don’t spot up or need to.

So get off Curry’s jock!!!

by Crashbranman on Jan 19, 2010 2:22 PM PST reply actions  

These days most point guards are combo guards

We don’t really need a label or anything. What we know is that Curry is a willing passer and is always willing to learn. That is the most important thing about playing the PG position.

by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 19, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Haha. Remind me again who’s on his jock?

Some advice: if you don’t agree with someone’s take, find some specific evidence — statistical or anecdotal — that you think counters it. Calling people who have a different point of view from you “retards” isn’t how we usually roll in here. (Least of all when dealing with onlxn, one of the least retarded of all us retards…)

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

some funny stuff guys. Gotta love warriors fans

by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 19, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

PTI Debates

Kornheiser says that Beans “stinks” and should try to shoot freethrows underhanded.

Wilbon says that Jon Barry should be brought in to help Beans out and Beans is a good player. He also said nobody should be taking 39 shots in a game, especially Monta Ellis.

Reali told Kornheiser at the end of PTI that Beans had 19 boards and 8 blocks in the game to counter the his comment that Beans is bad, though I assume he meant just the freethrow shooting.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 19, 2010 3:33 PM PST reply actions  

I didn't see that part with Reali

I was hoping someone mentioned that, because he had a very good game besides his free throw woes.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 19, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Who should have taken the shot load off Monta's back?

I agree with Wilbon, that is a lot of shots for one person to take. Way too many usually. But who the hell was going to take good shots on those posessions?
Most of Monta’s misses were off by an inch or less.
Maggs and Curry pretty much reached their potential last night for offensive output without being too worn down to play defense.

by warriorsvictim on Jan 19, 2010 4:06 PM PST reply actions  

Who should have taken the shot load off Monta’s back?

Everyone. Dismiss the notion that Monta dropping his shooting load means someone else jacking up a bunch more shots is the wrong idea. It’s not a case of replacing Monta’s 22+ shots a game he’s averaging entirely. It’s more a case where (prorated for playing time) each of the other 4 players on the court should take one or two more shots a game. Cutting him back to 16-17 shots is likely going to mean he takes the better shots he’s given, but gives up the ball to someone else, and not always the same person, who has a better shot 5 or 6 times a game. No one else increases their volume enough for the opposing defense to be over to overplay, but the overplay of Monta won’t be as detrimental to us.

by jae on Jan 19, 2010 4:43 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s long past time to give up the "Leastern Conference"

Slipped back a bit? Jae, I’d say they’ve probably slipped back a lot. I’m too lazy to crunch the complete numbers…wait, no I’m not. but taking the worst 9 teams in the West, they have a .54 winning percentage against the East. Taking the 9 worst teams in the East (dropping out the Nets as probably an anomily and replacing them with the Bulls) they have only a .24 winning percentage against the West. My methodology is probably riddled with flaws but even an easy count has the Western Conference with 45 more victories than the Eastern.

by breaker on Jan 19, 2010 6:38 PM PST reply actions  

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