Should we strive to have a career Warrior?
by warriorsvictim on Jan 20, 2010 1:13 PM PST
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Out of the 34 players who have scored 20,000 points , only 10 have scored all of them with a single franchise. Tim Duncan will become the 11th some time this week.
It got me thinking about Monta. He could reach that mark one day and I would feel exceptionally proud if he reached it as a Warrior and eventually retired as a Warrior. He is not a perfect player and he could be a very valuable trade piece, but he is really good as what he does. When he is paired in the backcourt with a Baron Davis type PG, he has the potential to be as close to a perfect position player as we will see in Oakland in my lifetime.
I have a substancial emotional attachment to players who come through Oakland which only grows with every season they play here. I have a hard time watching NBA games that dont feature a former Warrior now because I dont get the same rush of excitement watching a bunch of strangers play unless it happens to be a great game. It is a great feeling watching players come in young and raw and grow with the team and community. It feels even better to see a player make a home here and dedicate his time to the community he really cares about.
Despite the negative impact Free Agency has had on tenure, it is still more than possible to have a player spend an entire career with one franchise. I think this is something we should strive for, not jsut back into when there are no better choice on the free agent market.
Whether it be Monta, Curry, or some other player yet to be drafted, I would like to see the Warriors make it a point of identifying strong talent, giving them a fair salary based on their skills, and holding onto a couple them each generation for an entire career. While the emphasis has long been on winning championships in the NBA, the lack of playoff appearances here has lead me to be more interested in the entire fan experience. Being able to attach myself to a solid player is becoming a more important feature for me as time goes by.
Weigh in on this issue please. I am very curious to know if any of you would prefer a constantly revolving door that translates into championships, or something else in between. I subscribe to the thought that no player should be untouchable because you have to give up talent to get talent, but at the same time I want to develop a fan relationship with both players and our team.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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you're comparing apples and oranges
SA was in the playoffs every year and 4 rings since Duncan’s draft in ’97. We had one playoff appearance in 15 years.
Of course, a player would definately consider becoming a franchise player with a rep like the Spurs. We struggle to lure people out of free agency based on money. Gilbert Arenas, for example, was offered $110 mil and he turned that down!
If we keep this losing trend, and offer Monta a max contract when he’s due, yet a winning team offers him a bit less, but a better chance of winning a ring, who’s to say he’s going to stay. If i were in his position, i’m going for gold.
In short, we cant have franchise players when the franchise can’t even take care of itself.
We struggle to lure people out of free agency based on money. Gilbert Arenas, for example, was offered $110 mil and he turned that down!
… because Washington could offer more including an extra year. There’s no way another team could offer Monta more than we could. Not that he’s worth $120M/6 years, but that’s besides the point. Gilbert left because of money. Elton Brand went to Philly because of money. Baron Davis went to LA because of money. Money, money, money.
In short, the franchise can pay its players whatever it wants. Until it finds a player worthy of “franchise player” money, they will continue to shuffle players in and out… potentially including Monta.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 20, 2010 2:14 PM PST reply actions
plus if the bird rule was around then....
i bet we’d still have gilbert
Until it finds a player worthy of "franchise player" money, they will continue to shuffle players in and out… potentially including Monta.
Yeah, I want someone to be there for their whole career, because that probably means they’re a Tim Duncan, Paul Pierce, Kobe, etc quality player, so all I’m really saying is I want use to find a real franchise player, one worth keeping around for their entire career….
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
sadly, i can garentee the warriors (under cohan) would ruin the relationship
with a duncan paul, lebron type player….
chris webber
Elton Brand went to Philly because of money.
Interestingly enough, Brand stated publicly (on ESPN) that the Warriors offered him more money. I’m not sure the specifics of the deal, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that the Philly deal was indeed better, but all the reports, including straight from Brand, said that ours was the best offer.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
Well at the very least,
we could have offered him the same amount of money since he wasnt our free agent and we did have enough cap room to offer him a max deal. On the other hand, we offered Corey Maggette substantially more money to come here and he came.
Thing B
Boise State, BCS Champions 2010...
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 21, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Who are the grown folks we’re talking about, exactly? All I see is a Lakers fan, which basically means you aren’t even a real person. :)
by Missing Barry on Jan 24, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
And you, my friend, just used a smiley face made out of a colon and parenthesis, which means you aren’t even a real man.
Eh, it’s the internet. It happens. How else am I supposed to express my emotions from my mom’s basement?
by Missing Barry on Jan 25, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
you're right
except that someone else was willing to pay too much for him. He was a really great guy and had enough skill to finish his playing days here as a back up, but the money just didnt work out.
I always wonder if they would have found a way to keep him if the salary cap was not an issue. Probably not with this ownership team, but if the team was mine, I would be hard pressed to let a guy like that go. He was part of the glue that binds the fan base to the team.
by warriorsvictim on Jan 21, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Monta is not a franchise player
Our best chances are Curry, Randolph, and Wall if we get lucky.
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
I’d strongly consider banking on Monta being a franchise player before Curry…
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Or Randolph for that matter
Curry and Randolph are not better than Monta. Who knows, maybe they will be franchise players in the future but as of right now, Monta is the best on the team.
Randolph has that potential
lots of people seem to think he could be a top 10 player in the league
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 20, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
no they dont.
top 10 is really pushing it. top 10 player is an all time great. that type of player can lead you to a championship. i dont think AR is that type of player. maybe top 40.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 20, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
After Paul, Howard, Wade and Lebron, who is really good enough to be an “all time great” at the moment? Obviously some aging guys like Duncan, but by the time Randolph is good (if he ends up being really good), they won’t be around anymore so that’s why I didn’t include them….
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
old
well you better hope ar reaches his " POTENTIAL" before hes old .. just dont see it
guys like wade lebron pierce and others mostly came into the league with the real deal skill not the hyped up potential
i just dont see where the ar hype machine comes from
by MR. CAFETERIA on Jan 21, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Nowitzki is pretty damn good.
So is Deron Williams. Then there’s Derrick Rose who’s also pretty damn good at a very young age.
Sure, the two of them are pretty good, I agree. I love Williams game, and I hate the Jazz in general. But all time great? Sorry Dirk, being a very good offensive player doesn’t make you an all-time great. Rose has a long way to go to even get in that category. Not saying he can’t do it, just that there’s still a long road ahead and it’s probably more likely he doesn’t (just on probability, since most players don’t become all-time greats)….
by Missing Barry on Jan 22, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
Randolph might not be as good right now, but at least he has the potential to be great. With the things he already does + his athleticism, I could definitely see it being plausible. Curry, on the other hand….well, he doesn’t even have the athleticism so he has a lot to overcome to be a franchise player. It looks like a bigger longshot to me than Monta or Randolph….
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
So you don't think
Kobe, Wade, Bron, Howard, KG, Duncan, Paul, D-Will, Bosh are all time greats?
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 21, 2010 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
i think they'll be thought of as top players when they retire.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 21, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
crazy
AND YOU THINK THAT ANTHONY RANDOLPH IS GOING TO DEVELOP INTO ANY KIND OF PLAYER THAT IS BETTER THAN THESE 2 ?
by MR. CAFETERIA on Jan 21, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t believe I said I think he is. The caps are a little unnecessary.
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
"all time greats"
You’ve pretty much just listed the best players in the league right now.
Just being one of the best players in the league right now doesn’t make you an all-time great. That’s what makes them “all-time” greats.
Deron Williams will never enter into the discussion for the best point guard of all time. Chris Bosh will never enter into the discussion of the greatest big man of all time. I don’t know about Dwight Howard and Wade. I mean, Wade is one of the best guards in the league right now, but if you were picking players for a game where you life depended on the outcome, how many guys currently in the NBA would you pick ahead of him? He doesn’t crack the starting lineup (Paul is your PG. Kobe and Lebron play 2 and 3). How can you call a player one of the all-time greats if he wouldn’t crack the starting lineup of the best players CURRENTLY in the league?
There’s a very convincing case that Wade is better than Kobe.
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
Yes I agree.
I’ll take Wade over Kobe any day.
I freakin' hate Kobe. He's my most-hated player in the NBA.
But I have a real hard time not respecting his game. Maybe I just see Wade play less, but I’m less convinced about him.
I feel the same way about Kobe. Hate him, respect the game….but Wade is pretty freaking great. Wade in their championship run was better than Kobe has ever been at any point in his life. Wade last year was probably better than any season Kobe’s ever had, too. He’s a pretty amazing player – it’s less a putdown of Kobe than a tribute to Wade.
Though in an actual team setting, I might take Kobe if he agrees to step up in a defensive stopper role, because a motivated Kobe is a pretty great defender (rarely happens), and he’s a better outside shooter to space the floor for Howard, Lebron and Paul.
by Missing Barry on Jan 22, 2010 9:02 AM PST up reply actions
Wade's championship run ...
My enduring memory from the Mavs-Heat series was the refs deciding to hand the championship to Miami.
So it’s hard for me to recall Wade’s performance outside of that context. The refs decided that you couldn’t play defense against him.
There are three series in recent memory where I thought the officiating took control of the series and destroyed what could have been a very good matchup. That’s one of them. The other two involve the Lakers, but I felt the shenanigans were more about Shaq than Kobe. (In particularly, a LA-Portland series which was swung in game six by a series of absurd calls and non-calls in the Lakers favor, and an LA-Sacramento series where the only player who could defend Shaq for Sac was taken out of the game early with more than one foul call where he didn’t even touch Shaq).
The refs decided that you couldn’t play defense against him.
To be fair to Wade, no one on that team COULD play defense against him. Maybe they called too many fouls, but at the same time, maybe if they could guard him, they wouldn’t have fouled him so much.
by Missing Barry on Jan 22, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Ya
but neither will be.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 20, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see Monta as a franchise player at this point
He may be our “star”, but I don’t see him being a center piece.
AR and Steph have the potential to be.
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
I don’t see Monta as a franchise player as of right now either. But he is the Warriors best player.
Randolph and Curry have the potential to be. They’re young right now, I don’t see them being the best player on this team unless Monta and Maggette get traded (most of the shots are taken by them especially Monta). They can be franchise players in the future. Are they right now? no,
I wholeheartedly agree with your point
Monta, is our best player currently, but in the future I’d like to see Steph or AR as the face of the franchise.
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
I don't see
how Steph can be a center piece unless he becomes Steve Nash with defense. He doesn’t have that athleticism to drive to the basket.
I was one of the doubters
But I believe there’s alot more to Steph than what he has displayed so far. Looking at both Nash’s and Curry’s #’s as rookies, they are extremely similar. Curry has stepped up his D lately, but only time will tell. I do believe he has a bright future.
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
The problem is Nash is a pretty unusual case. Chances Curry becomse even remotely similar are pretty poor.
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
Curry doesn't have the athleticsm or size to be a star in my opinion.
Very good player? It seems like he could. but not a star.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 21, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
Yep – as I’ve said, I guess he could pull a Steve Nash, but I’d rather count on a plausible scenario than that.
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t see Monta as a franchise player, either, but he’s already good enough and has the athleticism that it’s plausible. AR definitely has the potential. Steph….I think he’s more a case of “he’s young and has a chance to develop and we haven’t seen all his faults yet” than actually having a chance of becoming that player. While I agree Monta is unlikely, I just see almost no plausible scenario where Curry becomes a franchise player. I like Curry – he looks like he’ll be solid to me, but I’m really just not seeing anything about him that suggests he can be more than decent. He doesn’t have the physical attributes to play good D. He doesn’t have the quickness to break his guy down – basically, the only way he becomes a franchise player is to turn into Steve Nash. The problem is, Nash is about the most unique player and unlikely career path that exists.
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2010 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
+1
no one wants to credit monta for what he’s truly doing with NO support. Last night our bench was 3 d-league call ups. We started a rookie (curry), Biedrin’s (off injury), Devean George (can we call him 4th d leaguer?), and Corey Maggette.
I really wanna see monta with some semblence of a team before i write him off as non-franchise worth. Keep in mind 2 of the best franchise players (I consider) Dwayne Wade, and Kobe have horribly struggled with no talent . Kobe in his prime (27-29) had the lakers barely a lower seed and you could argue he had a much better cast that dwade or monta (Odom for 1). Dwade sure has miami around the 6th seed but they r a .500 team in the east. I have reason to believe they’d be below that and a non-playoff team in the west.
yeah
hopefully we can get J Wall and he can stay here his whole carreer but if not Randolph and Curry are our best bets. If we are not winning by the time Monta’s contract is up i see him leaving
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
The Golden Future
PF: Anthony Randolph
PG: Stephen Curry
Can't wait until GS wins a championship!!!
Yeah Monta Ellis is a real superstar. Just like JRich, just like Baron, just like Stephen Jackson, and everyone else who has ever been our best player.
"We Deserve"
Sadly true
But Stephen Curry is a real superstar too. If you say otherwise, Dell Curry will beat the living crap out of you..and I’m only half joking.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"If the NBA were on channel 5 and a bunch of frogs making love were on channel 4, I'd watch the frogs, even if they were coming in fuzzy." - Bobby Knight
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
I am very curious to know if any of you would prefer a constantly revolving door that translates into championships
whoa.
I feel like the troll that fell asleep and missed the whole second act of the play.
When did our revolving door bring us a ring?
Damn. Missed that.
Crawling back under the bridge now …
GO BAACK YOU TROLLL!!!
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 21, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
haha
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
Not that it has worked so far, but let's say it did?
If we win 2 championships over the next decade with a revolving door of free agents, would that be OK with you? Or would you prefer we have some stability, maybe make the playoffs 6 times in a row with a basically static core we have developed?
I would take the core of players withouth the championship any time. I want to enjoy the team year in and year out more than I want to see a championship team.
by warriorsvictim on Jan 21, 2010 11:35 AM PST reply actions
Ya i dont care how, just do it.
Bellineli, Gallinari, and Radman are my heroes!!!
Monta PPG> Monta IQ
Lakers Fans= Terrible
Go C's
Giants need to sign Barry Bonds outta retirement.
by monta.da.boss on Jan 21, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Monta,or Curry is not a franchise player!
Monta is a really good player, but he is not a franchise player, and too even mention Curry is insane??
"I dont just go tatoo any muthafucka on my chest! dis is ma life line! my LEGACY!!!
We’re talking about the future, though…
by Missing Barry on Jan 22, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
Career Warrior
I think it’s going to be hard for someone to stay on the Warrior squad for the rest of their career. J-Rich spent around 6 seasons as a GSW, but got traded right after the playoffs on draft day. To be honest, most of the Warriors squad was already traded back from the 06-07 season and the others just left. The only players the Warriors still have from 2 years ago are Monta, Biedrins, and Azubuike. Shocking how 3 players from the team 2 years ago are the only ones left.
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