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Around SBN: Diego Sanchez and the Dangers of Fame in MMA

MT2 on twitter also reporting this

EDIT : Changed the link showing all the starters

about 2 years ago Mmm_tiny dubzfan 53 comments 0 recs  | 

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5 bucks

the NBA just added 2,000 votes to Nash’s total. I bet he did not actually get voted in by fans. He deserved it though, so I’m happy!

Living for a magical 8th seed run

by KashRocks on Jan 21, 2010 4:20 PM PST reply actions  

NICE!

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Jan 21, 2010 4:25 PM PST reply actions  

Yep. I bet Nash

didn’t get those votes. NBA didn’t want a teamless player.

by saintdee on Jan 21, 2010 4:25 PM PST reply actions  

Of course, no talk of Monta on TNT.

These “analysts” want Aaron Brooks (not saying he’s a bad player) and nothing about ellis.

by alex in OT on Jan 21, 2010 4:31 PM PST reply actions  

Because the Rockets actually win games.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 21, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I really hope

Monta Ellis gets in. Our record shouldn’t come into play at all, Last year Granger made it because of his scoring average and Monta is 6th in the NBA in scoring. I think Monta gets in if he can get his average up to about 5th or 4th in these next 3 games before the coaches decide but he definatly deserves it.

Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
The Golden Future
PF: Anthony Randolph
PG: Stephen Curry
Can't wait until GS wins a championship!!!

by GSW9 on Jan 21, 2010 4:39 PM PST reply actions  

Ha ha...

Iverson in the all-star game. That’s rich.

by DrManatee on Jan 21, 2010 4:57 PM PST reply actions  

If Monta was getting all sorts of props

and accolades and voted into the game then one can say Monta may be overrated. The fact that TNT doesn;t give him any love proves he is underrated if anything. Ask the players that have to guard him. He is a nightmare to guard and deserves to be an all star. Aaron Brooks couldn’t sniff his jock let alone hold it.

by Eschew Obfuscation on Jan 21, 2010 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

honestly, yeah. he’s not as good as nash, paul, roy, kobe or deron williams and there’s a couple more you could make an argument for too. one of those guys be kept home if monta made the all-star team. so, in a way, yeah, making the all-star team would make him overrated.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 21, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?

So if Monta gets voted in by the coaches, even though the guys on Inside the NBA n pretty much everyone else outside of a select few NBA coaches n players don’t talk about him, n all those guys you mentioned get a lot more media attention n exposure than Monta, that would make him overrated in your eyes?

by Krazee max on Jan 21, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

well, he’s already overrated on these boards…

but seriously, you don’t think that if he makes an allstar team, all those people who “never talk about monta” start talking about him quite a bit? and i guess i just don’t see how he’s being ignored by the media, players and fans. he’s getting plenty of attention right now. he’s getting lots more love than his teammate, corey maggette, who is playing a lot better than he is.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 21, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Maggette is Ellis' sidekick

His level of consistency for the season, and dating back to the start of his stay with the Warriors isn’t on par with Ellis’, first of all. In other words, if Ellis, who’s carried the team since Stephen Jax was traded isn’t as consistent as he’s been at carrying the team during that span, isn’t as brilliant as he’s been this year, the Warriors are the Nets of the Western Conference. Not even the Wolves.

Also, whether he’s overrated on these boards is debatable, considering how underrated he is by many posters. Either way, those of us that love him have accounts at goldenstateofmind. But as much as we may love the Warriors and all their best players (e.g. Ellis n Maggs), it doesn’t really mean much in the grand scale of the popular media perception side of things.

Having said that, outside of here, I don’t think Ellis is overrated at all. In fact, I think insomuch as there’s a (slight) possibility he may be overlooked by the coaches in spite of his brilliance, n the fact that it’s debatable how much many of the aforementioned likely vote-getters are actually better or more valuable to their teams than Ellis, Ellis is (still) very, very underrated.

by Krazee max on Jan 21, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

in what way is monta “carrying” this team? is it just because he shoots a bunch?

let’s be honest about monta’s play this year: he’s a talented guy who has tried to do way too much and it often hurts the team. there is no good reason for him to shoot as much as he does when he’s posting a TS% of .522 and he has talented scorers all around him. the argument that this team is devoid of offensive talent and that monta needs to fire up over 22 shots per game because if he doesn’t, no one else will score is ludicrous. he’s getting to the cup with great consistency, but taking bad shots in traffic instead of kicking it out to one of his many talented shooters on the wings. if he doesn’t go to the all-star game, it won’t be because he got overlooked, it’ll be because despite all his talents, he hasn’t been good enough this year. there are at least 5 more deserving guards in the west.

maggette might be monta’s sidekick, but he’s outperforming him by a wide margin.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 21, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Wait...

first, you’re knocking Monta for shooting too much when he’s one of the game’s best scorers. How is this different from what D-Wade or (especially) Kobe- who you explicitly mentioned above- does? Neither of those two have field goal percentages that can really jump out at you as special. In Kobe’s case, this has been the case for his entire career…

Second, do you really feel Ellis has as many talented scorers around him as you say? Who does he really have outside of Steph Curry, Maggs, n Biedrins today? Chris Martin n Anthony Tolliver? Should he do more to get Cartier Martin involved? I think the Warriors’ ridiculous health situation since Jax was traded is being underrated here. But even when AR4, Anthony Morrow, CJ Watson, etc. were still on the floor, it wasn’t any of them that led the Warriors in assists. That was Ellis then. Just as it’s Ellis now (he’s recorded 8 or more assists in his last 3 games).

If you feel his TS% leaves something to be desired relative to his peers at his position, maybe you’re overlooking that the specific unfortunate circumstances of his team’s health are unique to his squad. Whether Kobe or any of those other guys could be as effective as Ellis has been at carrying a team (e.g. leading them in minutes, scoring, assists, steals, etc.) under a similar set of circumstances to what limited success the Warriors have had is speculative conjecture. How many times have those guys had only 3 of their key rotation guys alongside them? How many times have they played the full 48 minutes of a game 10 times in a season?

And if you feel Maggette is better than Ellis in any way, shape, or form because his efficiency may rank favorably for a significant stretch of games lately, bear in mind that this site was full of posts that were hateful towards him just recently. Sure, Maggette’s been great lately, but Ellis has been that since Jax was traded in early November. To favor him as a player over Ellis because he’s recently begun to flourish in the sidekick role the Warriors have been needing for quite some time (after he failed at it for some time in the beginning, when people were booing him @ Oracle) seems a little unfair, I think.

Actually, I think as the number 2 guy, Maggette has it easier than Ellis because Ellis has been on such a tear this season that his presence makes it a little easier for other guys to go under the radar, in terms of attention drawn on defense throughout the game.

by Krazee max on Jan 21, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

+1 and rec

People will complain just for the sake of complaining. We complain that we don’t have a star type guy and when we get one the nit pick on why someone like Maggs is better

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Jan 21, 2010 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

+1037

People just love to hate and argue for the sake of argument.

I guess if there wasn’t that passion to hate and argue, this website would be very boring.

Romes Mac Mojous

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Jan 22, 2010 2:00 AM PST up reply actions  

first off, never once in kobe’s career has he had a below average TS% (.540).

picking out his lineup as of right now isn’t really that helpful considering he’s also had morrow and watson most of the year, who are very good scorers. he needs to get those guys involved more.

most star quality players would realize that they don’t need to carry a team with as many scorers as this warriors team. i just don’t see the lack of talent that so many people have been complaining about. he absolutely does not need to shoot as much as he is. smarter players would recognize that.

it’s not just a stretch of games that maggs has been more efficient than monta. corey maggette has been more efficient than monta’s career best TS% in six separate seasons and is putting up an insane TS% of .649 this season. that’s not just good, that’s inhuman and it’s his percentage over the entire year, not the past few games. people had no reason to boo him for his play.

ellis has been doing a very good job of drawing the defense’s attention. if he wants all-star consideration, he should take the next step and learn when not to shoot. he’s been pretty good this year, but if he took 5 less (bad) shots per game, he could be great.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 21, 2010 11:57 PM PST up reply actions  

However

Kobe has been a below average scorer from the field (FG%) for his entire career.

Furthermore, when on the floor, Morrow n CJ have been effective this season (before they went into their slumps recently). AR4 has been inconsistent all year, leading up to his injury. I think just as important as this team’s injury-plagued circumstances this season is the fact that we have the youngest team in the league. I mean, if you think about it, these guys are babies. Ellis himself just turned 24 a short time ago. Rather than blame Ellis for his teammates’ individual failures or shortcomings this season (e.g. Ellis should be finding them instead of taking such n such n such shots), I think it’s fair game to actually hold those guys accountable for themselves, especially when Ellis himself is just learning how to lead a team (he’s only been the top guy since Jax was traded).

I mean, if you’re so content to bash the team’s (very young) leader for whatever mistakes you feel he’s making out there, I don’t see why those other guys should get bailed out. To me, to blame Ellis for ANYONE else’s mistakes when nobody else is really doing him any favors either is a cop-out. Steph Curry’s been good but he hasn’t exactly been Chris Paul. Ditto with CJ Watson. And anyway, Ellis isn’t a point guard, he’s a 2. And one of the best at the position in the league at that. I don’t think anyone’s as sensational a scorer as Ellis (he’s my favorite player in the league). So to give anyone else the benefit of the doubt because maybe Ellis doesn’t defer to them as much as you’d like strikes me as unjust.

I agree Maggs is shooting better than he was earlier in the season. Having said that, if he’s always been (remarkably) efficient, it’s because he’s always had a penchant for incessantly driving to the rim. Once there, he shoots free-throws. He makes them. He’s also a pretty big guy. It’s why he gets so much time at the 4-spot. I’m not arguing Ellis is the more efficient scorer (in terms if TS%). I’m simply saying Ellis is the superior player. And I think he’s gonna get much better than he’s been, even this season, as his career progresses.

The bottom line is, given the current situation, we need for our leader to do what he does best (better than most that have played the game, in fact), n that’s score. We may need for him to average 40 ppg just to give us a real shot to win games until the cavalry starts to return.

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 12:27 AM PST up reply actions  

i’m not sure where i was giving everyone else “the benefit of the doubt” and unfairly bashing monta. all i’m saying is that cj, morrow, maggette, and curry will make the shots that monta sets up and that he should trust them to do so. all four of those players have been efficient scorers this year (maggette, ridiculously so) and when monta drives to the rim, if he runs into too much traffic, he should kick it out. those players will make shots. that’s not giving them the benefit of the doubt, it’s a statement of fact.

monta isn’t making enough shots to justify taking so many. his teammates are trustworthy. his next step as a player is to learn to find them.

i’m 100% with you that monta’s a 2, not a point guard. he’d be benefitted greatly by having a floor general and might get back to his very efficient, injury scoring rates if he had someone like that. that said, i don’t see why all-star voters should reward him for playing out of position when he hasn’t been playing that position particularly well. he’s mostlly just calling his own number and continuing to play 2 guard, but with the ball in his hands more. voting him into the all-star game for that seems like “gold star for effort” sort of thing and that’s not really what the game is about.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 12:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, I think when you declare that Monta’s teammates’ considerable resourcefulness is as given a “fact” as you’re saying, it leaves some questions open as to why CJ Watson n Anthony Morrow were in such slumps when they were injured. It feels to me that since you were saying Monta isn’t kicking the ball out enough when he penetrates, all blame for anyone else’s inconsistency is being put on Ellis.

Anthony Randolph’s been inconsistent because he’s raw, not because Ellis should be doing more for him. I think like with Randolph, the youthfulness of the group (including Ellis) should be taken into account here. Ellis is the team’s 2, n Curry was drafted so that Ellis could take the next natural step in his progress as a scorer. You’re right though, Ellis should probably let Steph handle the ball more. Definitely agree with you on that.

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 12:52 AM PST up reply actions  

well, watson was playing poorly this month. no argument from me on that, but prior to that, he had been shooting the ball very, very well and seeing as he had only taken 29 shots in the 6 games he’s been in this january, i think you’ve got to run with the assumption that he’ll get back on track.

to say that morrow had been in a slump speaks volumes about how good he had been all year prior to that. in his down month of january, he still shot .339% from deep was flanked by months of .574 and .423% from 3 and even in that down month he was hitting .446% from the field. the man can shoot.

i definitely don’t blame randolph’s offensive inconsistency on monta. i didn’t say that and wouldn’t say that. randolph’s got some growing up to do as a player. fortunately for us, he’s 20 years old. he’ll figure it out.

in fact, i wouldn’t blame anyone’s inconsistency on monta. shooters will go through slumps. it’s not monta’s fault that this happens; it’s just basketball. i want monta to trust them to shoot their way out of slumps. if he’s going to be handling the ball and initiating the offense, he’s got to trust morrow and company to make their open looks, even when they’re struggling. i think he can do that and when he does, watch the team improve.

i’m asking a lot of him because he’s got the ability to help this team tremendously. all he has to do is stop forcing the issue and get back to team basketball. he’s capable of that and as the team’s leader, i want him to.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 1:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm totally with you, man

And now that we’ve gotten all of that out of the way… can we acknowledge how much better Monta n this Warriors team has the potential to be when 100% healthy n gelling on the floor? I’m looking as far ahead as next season when I say this. Imagine what damage the team could do when Brandan Wright n Kelenna Azubuike have returned. When Beans n Turiaf are back to 100%. When Morrow’s retrieved his touch.

Isn’t it fun to imagine the bright days that lie ahead for this young club? Imagine how much damage Monta could do given the full support of his team next year, when he wouldn’t be forced into having to over-exert himself on the floor, playing 48 minutes n taking 28 shots. Imagine how efficient he has the potential to be with all his bigs back and everyone in rhythm.

Personally, I think not only will Monta’s efficiency go up, but so too will the Warriors become so much more lethal in the years ahead when this promising group of players have collectively figured it all out. I can’t wait.

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 1:22 AM PST up reply actions  

as a fan, i feel cheated that we never got to see this full roster in action. not because i thought we were going to the playoffs (though i think the dubs would have hung around that race for longer than people would guess), but because it would have been fun to see exactly what we had. that’s what’s supposed be fun about young teams- watching them find their identity. we never got that chance, which is sad considering how many interesting pieces on this roster.

on the bright side, we’ll be adding a better draft pick next year and hopefully, this healthy, talented roster will make some noise and play good basketball. fans of this franchise deserve that much.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 1:28 AM PST up reply actions  

unless you’re voting against williams because his team is so much better, i don’t see how ellis deserves it more.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 12:07 AM PST up reply actions  

ALl star voting should be based on the individual not the team

Thats what I hate about some voters. Individually Monta is having just as good if not better year than D Will.

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Jan 22, 2010 12:10 AM PST up reply actions  

no he isn’t. he’s been much worse. deron has been the more efficient scorer and the vastly superior passer, all while putting up similar rebounding numbers and playing defense that’s at least as good. monta taking more shots does not mean he’s having the better year.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 12:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Monta has to take more shots

See above. I think for every player, his team’s circumstances are different n they should be recognized by the voting panel accordingly. When the votes are in, I’m sure we’ll find that Ellis’ efforts in the face of his overwhelming odds (and as a Golden State Warrior, no less) this season will be rewarded.

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 12:32 AM PST up reply actions  

really?

he’s scoring nearly 20 a game, shooting more efficiently from field and 3pt than monta and he’s 3rd in NBA in assists

how exactly is Dwill having a worse year than monta???

by tafkasam on Jan 22, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Face it

Ellis is simply the far more sensational player. D-Will doesn’t put on a spectacle that makes games worth watching for fans night in n night out. Ellis does. You can nitpick n dwell on specific details that overcast Monta all you want. The bottom line is, he’s one of the most entertaining players in the league, n his showmanship will be recognized accordingly when the Coaches make their votes.

Ellis is an exciting player, man. Whether you love him or not (I do). In my opinion, he’s the most exciting player since Jordan retired in ‘98. Ellis is the kinda player that puts on a show at the All-Star game… not D-Will. All-Star fans wanna see great athleticism on display n high-scoring. That’s what they’ve always wanted to see in the league in general. It’s why David Stern did away with hand-checking, implemented the 3-second violation, etc.

And anyway, the West will already have Steve Nash n Chris Paul at the point position. Lord knows we don’t need another nearly identical player on the floor. The game should be more exciting than that. And Ellis, in the tradition of all the great showmen of the game (e.g. Elgin Baylor, Dr. J, Magic Johnson, n Larry Bird), will generate excitement. The common fan (or coach) probably doesn’t care as much about TS% as you do. Get over this, please, when considering Ellis’ likelihood for being voted in (a sure thing, in my opinion) because I’m telling you right now it’s not gonna matter. Nobody cares. But Ellis is about to become 5th in the league in scoring n that turns heads. Watch him make it!

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The amount of logic in the post is awe-inspiring

kudos for leaving ur brain at home and bringing ur heart to the table.

for the record i like monta a lot and WANT him to be an all star as much as anyone, and as a warriors fan we NEED this for PR more than just about any team, but I’m just trying to argue from an unbias nonwarrior fan POV.

D-will is a better player end of story. It has nothing to do w/ TS% or PER. It has to do w/ fact he is better by every metric, including the 2 most important, wins and notoriety.

TBH my dream would be to put them together in a backcourt cause he’s closest thing to Baron, in terms of size and strength and twice the player

by tafkasam on Jan 22, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

How is it illogical

to expect that in the NBA- easily the flashiest of the four major sports in this country- the (far) flashier player will be elected to play in the flashiest game of the year??

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

i would be totally fine with the NBA dropping the premise of “let’s bring the best players” and just going with “let’s put on a ridiculous spectacle with guys who are going to be super fun to watch.”

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

And if you think about it

that’s pretty much what the NBA All-Star game has become. First n foremost, the fans have already taken care of 50% of that with the starting 5-voting process. Why the hell else would Amare Stoudemire be voted to start? Or why would Allen Iverson, or even Tracy McGrady- who’s played all of 39 minutes this season- steal a backcourt spot (or come very close to it in T-Mac’s case) from someone worthy when they’re totally undeserving themselves? What comes to mind when you think of these guys’ abilities? Their passing skill sets??

The coaches meanwhile (the other 50%), voted Danny Granger in last year, very likely because he was 6th or 7th in scoring (I don’t remember) when the time came to make the decision. Sure, sometimes the unflashy guys get respect (like in 2006, when 4 of the Pistons’ starting 5 guys came off the bench), but the majority of the time, the more exciting players (read: prolific scorers) are gonna make it.

Granted, Ellis is a phenomenal scorer n we all know that. But I mean, it’s no stretch or leap of faith to recognize him as one the best young players in the league today at all. I mean, if we at goldenstateofmind can’t agree that Ellis is a phenomenal player- period- then I have a big problem with that. That just strikes me as being sooo… ungrateful, I guess. Does this make sense?

by Krazee max on Jan 22, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah, i think that the way its marketed versus what it actually is causes a fair amount of disagreement in its own right. i don’t think monta’s been one of the 5 best guards in the west this year, but he’s definitely in the top 5 for fun to watch. so, if the NBA puts him for that reason, that’s fine with me (though he’d probably be better off with a few days rest and a chip on his shoulder from the slight).

i think the all-star game has something of an identity crisis, and if it’s supposed ot be a show, put the best showmen in the game and tell everyone that’s what it is. sounds like a good time to me.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 22, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree that the more entertaining players should play in the game.

But do you really think Monta is “the most exciting player since Jordan retired in ‘98.” Do you really put him ahead of the likes of Kobe, LeBron, Dwight, etc. in terms of excitement/entertainment?

"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald

by WarriorForLife on Jan 22, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes I do.

I think that with the fact that he’s so small, standing 6’3" n weighing a buck-eighty, paired with his (in my opinion) unparalleled ability to score at the rim, n his success rate getting there at the clip that he does (he leads the league in points in the paint), along with the fact that he puts on a one-man show every night (how many Ellis highlights do we get per game??) make him the most exciting player in the league.

When MJ was in his prime with the Chicago Bulls, the league was a lot taller than it is today. And pretty much every competitive team had a dominant center that anchored their gameplan (either on offense, like Abdul-Jabbar, on defense, like Mark Eaton, Tree Rollins, Bill Laimbeer, or Manute Bol, or both, like Hakeem Olaijuwon n Ralph Simpson). In fact, MJ, standing at 6’6", was considered short for a 2-guard (by an inch) in the 80’s (Clyde Drexler was 6’7"), as Ellis is considered by many in the present day (D-Wade is only an inch taller than him as well).

So, though MJ stood 3 inches taller than Ellis, Ellis is no less a David among Goliaths than MJ was in his first stint with the Bulls, when he mercilessly attacked the rim as gracefully as a ballerina on a nightly basis, n filled up the highlight reels in the process. To me, this is no different than what Ellis does with his own grace n athleticism every night.

He’s usually the smallest dude on the court, n yet, he slays would-be defenses with his extraordinary quickness n explosiveness (n hangtime) as easily n as often as MJ used to.

by Krazee max on Jan 23, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Nobody that has done this good has not amde it.

When the heat was stuggling D Wade still made it and nobody was saying anything about their record.

I got some faith in the coaches to make the right decision.

by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 21, 2010 5:55 PM PST reply actions  

West All-Stars

Nash, Kobe, Carmelo, Duncan, Amare… CP3, Broy, Dirk, Durant are givens. I think Deron Williams and Boozer are givens too…. leaving 1 spot for: Monta, Z-bo, wouldnt be surprised if Chauncey, Bynum or Gasol go.

I still think he’s an outside looking in.

by tafkasam on Jan 21, 2010 10:00 PM PST reply actions  

stats...

PER:
CP3- 25.97
Nash- 23.94
Kobe- 23.29
Broy- 22.72
Chauncey-22.99
Deron- 20.55
-——
Monta-17.63

For reference: Manu, Joe johnson, Igudala, Jamal Crawford, Rondo, Gilbert, Tyreke, Baron have all been higher than monta (and I’m not counting guys like ridnour and such),

by tafkasam on Jan 22, 2010 9:19 AM PST reply actions  

PER

is the most useless stat in the game

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Jan 22, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

theoretically monta should benefit from it....

considering all the steals he gets and touches in general

by tafkasam on Jan 22, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

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