RECAP: Sacramento Kings 99, Golden State Warriors 96 -- Stephen Curry Wins
There can be only one...
Final Boxscore | Game Thread (1290+ comments) ) | Warriors Game Day Links
Blog Buddy: Sactown Royalty
It's difficult to describe just how ugly this basketball game was. How about this: the Kings shot 38% for the game, and they were the hot team! The Warriors, up to this point one of the best shooting teams in the league, shot 32%. And if you take away Stephen Curry's 10-22, the Warriors shot 28%. Is that ugly enough for you?
Well, how about this: Corey Maggette shot 3-22, after opening the game 0-14. He didn't make his first field goal until 8:20 of the fourth quarter. We're talking ugly.
This game began badly for the Warriors on all levels. Outside of Curry, they moved the ball poorly. Maggette obviously was the worst offender in this regard, forcing up jumpers early in the shot clock. And their big men simply didn't show up to start the game. The Kings killed the Warriors on the boards in the early going, finishing the half with a 38-24 rebounding advantage, including 11 off the offensive glass. Andris Biedrins had only 2 rebounds in the first half.
In the second half, down by 11, the Warriors finally began making a clear effort to share the ball. In their opening possession of the half, a play was run for Corey Maggette. But rather than force up a shot into the sagging King's defense, Maggette swung the ball, and the Warriors wound up with an open Curry three. Biedrins and Turiaf also seemed to up their effort on defense and on the glass. Nevertheless, the Warriors entered the fourth quarter down 13. And by 4:54 of the fourth quarter, the Warriors were still down by 11. That's when Don Nelson went to small ball, with Anthony Tolliver at center, and Maggette at power forward. The small ball Warriors were able to get this game close, behind a big four point play on a made three by Stephen Curry, and the return of Maggette's driving game. They were down only 4 at the 1:00 mark, when Curry created a wide open three for Tolliver on a high pick and roll. Tolliver bricked it, and that was the game. The Warriors cut it to two on a nice Cartier Martin drive with :24 left, but lost the free throw battle in the final seconds.
You could call this a case of too little, too late for the Warriors. But more accurately, it was a case of the Warriors playing with too many inexperienced pieces, and lacking a clear identity on offense. Don Nelson summed it up nicely post-game: "Monta, c'mon back, we need you, baby!"
And in this corner...
Stephen Curry v. Tyreke Evans: Warriors fans did not come away empty-handed in this game, because they got to watch a great head-to-head battle between the top two rookie point guards in the league, who are by consensus the leading candidates for Rookie of the Year. And on Tyreke Evans' home court, Stephen Curry clearly dominated this battle. Curry put up 27 points on 10-22 shooting, 9 rebounds, 6 assists against only 1 TO, and 3 steals, against Evans' 23 points on a poor 8-21 shooting, with 6 rebounds, and 4 assists against 3 TO's. And as great as Curry's line was, it should have been much better. Beginning with the first play of the game -- a pick and roll with Andris Biedrins, perfectly executed, but which Biedrins failed to finish -- and continuing through the fourth quarter, Curry set up his teammates time and again with easy looks and layups that they simply could not get to go down. Simply put, if the Warriors had not shot a putrid 28% from the field, Curry would have finished a rebound short of a triple double.
Bring it!
Which is to say nothing of Curry's defense. In the first half, Curry guarded Kevin Martin, who wound up shooting 1 for 9. It's hard to give Curry too much credit for Martin's struggles. Martin simply has no confidence in his outside shot right now. But it's worth noting that when the 6-7" Martin tried to take the 6-3" Curry inside, Curry turned him away continuously, and twice turned him over. This theme played out over and over again later in the game, when Don Nelson switched Curry onto Tyreke Evans.
Evans had abused D-league rookie Cartier Martin and CJ Watson in the first half, bulling his way to the hoop repeatedly. Evans scored 17 points in the first half, on 6-8 shooting and 5-6 from the line. But in the second half, guarded largely by Stephen Curry, Evans was limited to 6 points on 2-13 shooting. In the fourth quarter, the Kings went repeatedly to Evans in the low post against Curry. But again and again, Curry was able to deny him. Unlike Martin and Watson, Curry never once let Evans by him. And when the much bigger Evans tried to body him into the paint, Curry was able to hold his ground without fouling, and slow Evans enough to allow help from his big men to arrive. It was Curry's defense on Evans in the fourth that as much as anything allowed the Warriors to get back into this game in the final minutes.
Watching Evans try to single-handedly take it to Curry in the fourth quarter, I think it became obvious how much better a point guard Curry is than Evans. In fact, watching this game made me doubt whether Evans is really a point guard. He did very little passing or creating for others, and appeared to have very limited vision of his teammates. And his handle under pressure is very suspect. He only has a right hand, and not a very sure one. Evans has a great future in this league, but in my mind he needs to play alongside a point guard. Which may mean that he can't play alongside Kevin Martin.
For those who want the simple version of what we saw: Stephen Curry was +9 in a 3 point Warriors loss, Tyreke Evans was -4.
Evans has a substantial statistical lead over Curry in the Rookie of the Year race, and is likely to carry away the trophy. But this game made my mind up: Stephen Curry is the best rookie point guard in the league.
Quick hits on the rest of the players:
- Monta Ellis: Monta was absent, but his absence was ever-present in this game. For those stat freaks among you that have been pointing out his lack of efficiency this season, consider this: Monta's mere presence on the court super-charges the efficiency of his teammates, because he so warps the opposing team's defense. Try to find something in Hollinger's PER or Dave Berri's Wins Produced stats that accounts for that.
- Corey Maggette: Mr. Efficiency came to earth with a crash in this game. This is the difference between the Corey Maggette who plays off of a superstar, and the Corey Maggette who is forced to create for himself. In his defense, many of the shots he took were good shots that he normally makes. And he got a pretty bad whistle. And he got 11 rebounds. But Monta Ellis cannot return quickly enough for Maggette's game.
- The Centers: Beans and Turiaf had very little energy in the first half, allowing themselves to get pushed off the boards. They picked it up in the second half, both on the boards and with some timely shot-blocking, but by then the Warriors were in an uphill climb. Their decent stat totals don't reflect their poor effort in this game.
- Cartier Martin was the better of the two D-league All-stars this game, putting up 20 points and 7 rebounds through sheer effort. He's very raw offensively, as his 4 TO's indicate, but has terrific slashing ability and finishes strong. He also has a great nose for the ball, particularly on the offensive glass. On the down side, Tyreke Evans gave him fits.
- Anthony Tolliver played a better game than his 2-11 indicates. Why did Jason Thompson only get 14 minutes in this game? The jump-hook airball that Tolliver forced him into may have had something to do with it. As Jim Barnett pointed out, Tolliver understands position. As for his three point shooting, and the reason that Don Nelson keeps going to him for threes in crunch time, all I can say is that he must look awfully good shooting them in practice. Because he looks positively awful shooting them in games.
- The Little Three: Anthony Morrow was the best of the bunch, simply by remaining on the bench. CJ Watson has returned from injury just as cold as he was before, shooting 1-8 in this game. And his defense on Evans and Udrih was poor. Vlad Rad apparently wasn't ready to go. Nellie tried him twice, and yanked him twice. 0-1 shooting, 0 rebounds, and 1 very silly, very Vlad turnover. Enigmatic.
There can be only one. Stephen Curry.
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Honestly, Don Nelson is a good coach
the fact that he has us competing with such shitty talent is amazing… any other coach would have us getting blown out by 30 night in and out… except Rick Adelman maybe
He’s a good coach, when he gives a damn, I’ll give you that. Remember his rest a vet program last year? Pffffft
So let me get this straight... Maggette is the healthy guy.
"Winning is not enough. All others must lose." - Larry Ellison
by Badly Browned on Jan 27, 2010 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
The only problem I have with the game that Nellie coached last night was that we ran the pick and roll to Beans on the very first possession and it worked great. I don’t recall seeing a single one to Beans for the rest of the night.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 27, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
This same thing happened with Tolliver for the Spurs last season
He really can shoot the 3-ball, but it seems to always fail him when he needs it most.
I’m not sure if it’s nerves (it shouldn’t be since the other facets of his game seem alright), but his 3-ball always lacks when it gets to be NBA gametime…
I blog at Ridiculous Upside. I know you'll love it.
by Scott Schroeder on Jan 27, 2010 1:26 AM PST reply actions
He should stop shooting it for a while...
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 27, 2010 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
But on otherhand...
Him shooting the 3 forces defense to respect it. “A shot created must be taken” to quote Nellie. I kind of agree with that. By having him shoot it, defenses have to contest is, leaving lanes for slashers.
eitherway I’m not gonna be super critical of a DLeaguer on a 10 day contract. He is rebounding better than all our 4’s minus Randolph. and although the sample size is small, he’s playing great (well warrior great) defense
That's what I hear...
I don’ t know much about Tolliver except for the fact that Fitz & Barnett keep saying this guy can shoot. I don’t see it at all but I’m sure he’s proven he can (just not for the Dubs thus far). It also doesn’t help that his shooting form is super ugly! He shoots on the way down which looks like he’s gonna miss everytime! It’s a horrible way to shoot 3’s but he’s in the NBA so who am I to say how he should shoot?
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Maybe conditioning? He seems to wear down during the games and probably doesn’t have the legs to make those threes.
Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info
by cybermaldonado on Jan 27, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
If I had done the recap
I would have called it “Why I hate the way Corey Maggette plays basketball”. He leaves everything up to the refs. If they blow the whistles, he looks like a basketball machine. If they don’t, he looks like a fish out of water.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 27, 2010 3:04 AM PST reply actions
Maggette
I think he’s the wrong guy to pick on. He shot 3-for-22, yeah, but he’s averaging 29 points per game in January. The dude still had 19 points and 12 rebounds last night.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 27, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
I never said he doesn’t or hasn’t produced. I’m just exclaiming what I always have: Corey Maggette plays basketball in the exact opposite way that I want to see it played.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 27, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
That’s how the NBA works though… Everything IS up to the refs. Looked at in that light. Maggs is probably doing the right thing.
Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info
by cybermaldonado on Jan 27, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Curry's Team Soon...
I love Monta Ellis but I think this will be Curry’s team very soon. As a Warriors fan you have to love his game and he is getting better every minute he is on the floor. Once he actually gets some decent big men to run the pick and roll with who can actually finish layups he will be one of the top PG in the NBA (2-3 years away) who can easily average 20 pts and 10 assist a game. Even Don Nelson who is notoriously hard on rookies has to respect Curry’s game and is pretty much letting him run the team at this point. Monta Ellis is still the best player we have right now but Curry is rapidly making his case. I hope the Warriors see what they have and actually take advantage of the situation by surrounding Curry with talent and watch him develop into the next great PG in the NBA. Also his 3pt shot is coming around now so if he starts hitting that consistantly we will be really hard to guard. I just hope that the Warriors FO doesnt mess it up and gets the players we need to suceed in the future or it will be just more wasted talent.
God Willing...
We'll see...
Ellis is still our best player but its pretty clear more players are involved in the offense when Curry is running the show
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 27, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions
who can easily average 20 pts and 10 assist a game
You know how many NBA players are doing that right now? 1. Chris Paul is averaging exactly 20.0 points per game. Steve Nash isn’t. Deron Williams isn’t. Nor are Parker, Rose, Billups, and most of them aren’t even that close. The point is, that’s not easy for anyone. I’m not sure why people ever just assume it’s a guarantee that a players game is going to develop a very large amount. Maybe Curry does become the best PG in the NBA (would you really be willing to bet a lot of money on it without odds, though?), but then again, maybe he doesn’t. He has a long way to go, and the truth is, most players don’t turn into that kind of player, so how is Curry such a sure thing?
Once he actually gets some decent big men to run the pick and roll with who can actually finish layups
You mean like Andris Biedrins, one of the best at this in the game? Granted, Biedrins needs to start playing more minutes (and stop fouling so much), but my point is we already have that guy.
Even Don Nelson who is notoriously hard on rookies
I’m not sure that’s true. When we looked at it in the offseason it seemed like he’s hard on players that aren’t ready to play at a high level, which may tend to be rookies, but still, it at least makes sense that he’s going to play the best player (though in our case I’d rather see the younger guys get PT since winning this year isn’t all that important anymore).
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
problem is biedrins has to be really close to the hoop to be a defensive threat or to finish. Lately his freethrows seem to be getting worse.
by dubtown on Jan 27, 2010 9:00 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's all about his confidence.
I think he shot around 60% at the line last year. It’s all mental. What he should do is holler at Rick Barry.
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They already...
did holler at Rick. Biedrins claimed shooting ft’s that way would have completely killed his already low confidence.
Sorry if this has already been posted:
Yeah, he’s 2-20 on the season, his FT’s have been awful. Just keep sample size in mind – it’s just a bad stretch and he’ll probably start shooting much better (by Biedrins standards, of course) in the future.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Biedrins one of the of the best in the game?
You’ve got to be kidding me. Biedrins has a mediocre at best touch around the basket. Lets assume though for a minute that he is a good finisher. All teams have to do is foul him hard and put him on the line and it’s basically a turnover + no assist for Curry.
by randolphforpresident on Jan 27, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
You realize that shooting 57% from the FT line is equivalent to shooting 57% on 2 point attempts, right? The FT is the most efficient shot in the game. So if Andris gets back to where he’s been (62.0% and 55.1% the last two seasons), him shooting FT’s is above average offensive efficiency – a good thing for us. Also, I’m not sure how you can possibly say he doesn’t have touch around the rim. For his entire career, he’s shot 60.4% from the field. Again, if you compare that to the NBA leaders this year, it would tie him for the second best mark in the NBA, with Marc Gasol. What possible argument is there against that? If he doesn’t have touch, how is his FG% one of the very highest in the entire NBA?
Point is, this comment is 100% wrong.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Of course there is not gurantee that Curry will be great but the skills are there and floor game is growing at a very rapid pace. He basically shutdown the other top rookie PG in the 4th quarter and out played him on his home court. Not saying that averaging 20pts and 10ast would be easy but he has the skill to do it if he had the right pieces around him. Look at Rondo for Boston. He would be half the player he is without Pierce and Garnett. All I know is Curry has the goods and hopefully the Warriors FO doesnt waste his talent for the next few years while we have him for sure.
Also Biedrins hasnt been playing good ever since he got his big contract. Hopefully he will turn it around but its not looking good. And if you cant finish at the rim then you have to be able to atleast hit 1 out of 2 FT’s and he isnt even doing that right now. And can somebody remind Biedrins that you can actually dunk in the NBA. When is the last time he has had a dunk in a game??? That is what i mean by a big man who can finish the pick and roll especially on nearly perfect passes
God Willing...
He’s had a couple in every game since he’s been back. Even last night.
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Jan 27, 2010 10:08 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Also Biedrins hasnt been playing good ever since he got his big contract.
That’s just your perception, though, and it isn’t right. Last season Biedrins scored more than he ever has, rebounded more than he ever has, his TS% dropped (regression to the mean, anyone?), but was still in line with his career. He still blocked shots, he racked up more steals….yeah, he played like Andris Biedrins, except a little bit better. He hasn’t played as well yet this year, but I think that has to do with coming back from injury and not playing full minutes yet, I expect him to get back to where he was. Relevant to our point, though, is that Biedrins is shooting 60.3% from the floor. If he had enough shots to qualify, he would currently rank 3rd in that category in the NBA, ahead of Dwight Howard, and just behind Perkins and Marc Gasol. He finishes, and he finishes extremely well. He is one of the very best players in the NBA in this regard. He has great hands to make the catch, and once he gets the ball to the rim, he makes it go in the hoop as well as anyone in the entire league, even if he doesn’t dunk on top of people to do it. He doesn’t even need great passes to do it because he catches so well – just get him the ball anywhere near the rim, he’ll catch it and finish.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
havent seen Biedrins doing much finishing at the rim lately but you are right last year he was playing way better than he is playing this year. With that being said he would still be a second string Center on most other playoff teams. Hope he does return to form but I can only go off what I see in 09-10 season. Turiaf is a better center than Biedrins at this point. I have a what have you done for me lately attitude when it comes to my teams.
God Willing...
I don’t know that Biedrins would be a second string C on most playoff teams. On some, of course – the Spurs, Magic and Lakers all come to mind, but there aren’t that many good C’s in the league, and what Biedrins does provide in his efficient scoring, very good rebounding, and decent defense makes him a pretty good role player.
Hope he does return to form but I can only go off what I see in 09-10 season
I just don’t think that’s an accurate way to judge someone in Biedrins situation. He’s just coming back from injury, he hasn’t gotten up to full PT yet (and, according to jae, more PT actually leads to guys playing better, though I’m not sure it’s applicable in this situation), he has yet to get to midseason form….basically, he’s 23, there’s no reason to think his game has just disappeared, so his former averages/career numbers are a much better indicator of what he’s going to give us than just what he’s done in his limited time so far this year. If I’m wrong (possible, but I don’t think it’s likely), and he doesn’t start playing much better, I’d have to agree with you that he’s not getting it done as a starting C anymore.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
This is the silliest debate. Why does it need to be either Curry or Monta’s team? From what I have seen they actually play pretty well together, something that you would expect to improve as they get more games under their collective belt. If Curry does indeed develop into “the next great PG in the NBA,” we will be blessed with a great PG and an outstanding SG. Our problem is not in the backcourt people!!! Our problem is right there up front, on offense and defense.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I agree
But you’d expect something like this to happen once Monta got hurt.
Curry would obviously have to step up in his absence and put up some big numbers but I still think we’re better with Monta playing alongside him.
by Richboievans on Jan 27, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
every good team has a leader. Monta is a great scorer but not a good leader in my opinion. I believe Curry could be the leader we need on the floor once he gets more game time experience. But I definately want to keep Monta as well. And yes you are correct we need a big man who can score and defend the paint asap!!
God Willing...
Curry needs to be more vocal before I call him a leader.
by Richboievans on Jan 27, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
actually thought he's been doing a good job
He is “the rookie.” But even then, who grabbed Maggette when he was livid and about to get himself thrown out . He’s got strong leadership skills and when he’s a little older he’ll be that guy undisputed
Yawn on the leadership stuff. Give me a good player over a leader any day of the week, and my team will do better. Especially when you start talking about stuff fans observe, like leadership is something that’s just so easy for us to see, when we only see a fraction of the stuff that goes on within a team environment. Do I want guys that play hard, make good decisions, work hard outside of gametime, and have a positive attitude? Of course, but from my perspective, as someone who only sees what happens in games, I want players that perform and win games. If the “intagibles” like leadership aren’t showing up somehow in terms of game productivity, then they probably aren’t doing a whole lot to help win games.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Great point
This has been Warriors problem in past. Too quick to ‘blow it up’ and make it player "X"s team. Give it time, let them grow…. Sure if someone gives us an offer for Monta which is an upgrade, then by all means take it, but shopping him solely to make it “Curry’s team” is just dumb. We can deal with the fact our back court is too small to win a championship when we r actually consistent playoff team.
But would it be with Bell?
What I mean by that is… Clearly there are going to be teams that really struggle with the small back court and then when we need a slightly larger body on the floor, play either Monta or Curry with Morrow or Bell…. Morrow is without doubt a superb 3 point shooter and I suspect he gets a confidence issue at times… but I think we can work with our backcourt…
Interestingly I just receivd this in my email from the Warriors..
Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry, who scored a career-high 32 points last Friday against the New Jersey Nets, leads a list of 18 players selected for the 2010 Rookie Challenge & Youth Jam to be held on Friday, Feb. 12 in Dallas during NBA All-Star 2010.
The participants in the Rookie Challenge & Youth Jam were selected by the NBA’s assistant coaches, with each team submitting one ballot.
The seventh overall pick in the 2009 NBA Draft, Curry currently ranks among rookie leaders in steals (1st at 1.86), 3-point field goal percentage (1st at .428), free throw percentage (2nd at .849), assists (3rd at 4.5) and scoring (4th at 14.0). He has tallied 25-plus points in four of Golden State’s last six games and tied a franchise record for most 3-pointers made in a game without a miss January 5 at Denver (6-of-6).
As I have been saying for a while now….I think in two years…this Kid is going to be something pretty special… I dont normally get super impressed with players, but I really see something that maybe others dont see… but I truly think ALL-STAR by 2012!
Jan 16 2010 - Onlxn quote on Stephen Curry - "one of the worst playmakers in basketball"
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 27, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
feel the same way…Curry will be an allstar in the next few years and a top PG in the NBA if he continues to grow and progress at this pace.
God Willing...
I’m still very concerned by his lack of athletic ability to consistently keep the defense off balance (as in, he can’t just get wherever he wants on the floor whenever he wants the way guys like Paul, Nash, Rondo and Parker can)….
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Personally I think his defense is absolutely spot on right now...
and getting better by each game… also while many deride his playmaking ability, I actually think he is a truly superb ball handler… but then I am not alone in this thought..
Jan 16 2010 - Onlxn quote on Stephen Curry - "one of the worst playmakers in basketball"
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 27, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t have any real problems with his ball handling, just his quickness to beat the defense and create shots for himself and teammates the way the premiere PG’s can. If he had Brandon Jennings quickness, for instance, I think I would be really, really excited about him right now.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
In fairness … what truly great NBA players were real speed burners? Not Magic, not Bird, not Stockton, not Jordan, not Nash, not Drexler, not Kobe, not Pierce, not Allen … and obviously, none of the big men. Outside of maybe KJ and CP3 I can’t think of too many greats who were also sprinters. Most of the greats I’ve witnessed have had the more-or-less the same cool, unhurried quality to their movements as Curry. Some of them were more explosive, and most of them longer, but I wouldn’t call any of them notably quicker or faster.
I’d also note that, somewhat superficially, Curry seems to have the same quasi-zen “mindful” or “present” quality of a Magic or Bird or Stockton. Not to say that he doesn’t make boneheaded mistakes, but he always seems to be thinking, probing, trying to outsmart the opposition, at both ends of the floor. That’s a semi-precious quality in such a young kid, imo.
Obviously, the chances of his being mentioned in the same breath as the greats is slim; just noting I wouldn’t rule out greatness for him based on physical limitations. He seems to have very few mental limitations, which to me is an even bigger part of the battle. If I were you, I’d go ahead and be a little bit excited. ;-)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 27, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
thanks i am now excited about curry, but seriously i agree he will be great.
by dubtown on Jan 27, 2010 2:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Apparently we disagree, because besides Nash (and probably Bird, only caught the tail end of his career)…ugh I keep looking back at the list and adding someone, let’s make it easy and say besides the white dudes, I would call all of those players far superior athletes than Curry. Every one of the others had a combination of size, strength, quickness, speed, explosiveness, jumping ability….basically, all the things that contribute to “athleticism”, that were closer to the elite end of the spectrum than the average end. I’ve been less than impressed by Curry’s athleticism, I would call him a below average athlete for an NBA player. So….I’m very strongly in disagreement with you on this point.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I guess I was trying to distill speed/quickness from other qualities deemed “athletic” (length, strength, and explosiveness, e.g.) Specifically, I don’t think Curry’s land velocity deficit vis à vis Jennings is as big deal as you seem to. (“If he had Brandon Jennings quickness, for instance, I think I would be really, really excited about him right now”). If anything, I’ve seen more superstar hoopsters who move around the court like Curry — relaxed, graceful, composed — than who burn rubber like Jennings.
Clearly, Curry’s length and strength deficit v. guys like Magic, Jordan and Kobe is a bigger issue…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 27, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
In a sense, speed, length, strength, explosiveness are all part of the same issue, one that’s even broader than athleticism.
For an NBA player to be truly great, he needs to be able to consistently beat his defender. Whether it’s burning by a guy, shooting over him and muscling past him, you have to be able to penetrate the opposing defense to make good things happen. It’s not a sufficient condition for greatness — Monta, for example, often beats his defender only to miss or throw it away — but it’s a necessary condition for greatness.
And right now, Curry can’t do it. He can drain it if left open for the slightest second, he can create like crazy in transition, and he can occasionally whip the ball past his defender to an open man in the halfcourt — he’s already a good player. But he can’t get by his man with any consistency. He can’t compromise a defense in the way that all great players do. Quite often, we’ve seen Monta pass Curry the ball, Curry dribble around the perimeter looking for an opening, and just dump it back to Monta when he fails to find one.
That doesn’t mean he’ll never be able to do it. But most great players either do it pretty much from the get go, or have strong physical traits that allow them to do it once their technique catches up. Curry doesn’t have those traits. He’s small with a tiny wingspan, he’s not strong, and he’s not fast for his position. He may have better footspeed than Steve Nash, but his handle, though good, isn’t good enough to give him Nash’s dribbling speed.
To get great, he’ll either need to get bigger physically or learn how to dribble and pass with Nash-like precision. Unless he’s got a growth spurt left, basically, he needs to get as much out of his physical potential as Steve Nash did. And considering that Steve Nash has gotten more out of his physical potential than maybe any player in NBA history, I’m not sure we should bank on that.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Curry doesn’t need to do anything to become great other than gain experience. He’s 2 inches taller and already heavier than both John Stockton and Isaiah Thomas. 3 inches taller than Mark Price. He is at least as strong as Nash, and will be stronger.
He is the most cerebral player to come into the league since Magic and Bird. He is WAY ahead of where Nash was in his first three NBA seasons.
Yeah, Nash wasn’t that good initially and only became the player we see now late in his career. It’s a pretty unique career path – players simply don’t do what Nash did, which is one reason I hate how often we talk about Nash when we talk about Curry. Nash is probably the most unique player in the history of the NBA.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
Curry doesn’t need to do anything to become great other than gain experience.Curry doesn’t need to do anything to become great other than gain experience.
And…
…really?
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
He is the most cerebral player to come into the league since Magic and Bird.
Totally, dog — Jordan, Tim Duncan, Chris Paul and Lebron were all friggin’ basketball idiots as rookies compared to one of the five worst passing point guards in basketball this year.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
If anything, I’ve seen more superstar hoopsters who move around the court like Curry — relaxed, graceful, composed — than who burn rubber like Jennings.
And it’s not that speed alone allows you to do what I hope Curry can do some day (basically get wherever he wants on the court whenever he wants) – changing speeds/direction is much more important, so I guess the point I’m trying to make is having that explosive athleticism really helps in that way – being the kind of fast twitch athlete a guy like Jennings is lets you change direction, hesitate and explode past the defense….and Curry seems to be lacking that. Even guys like Jordan/Magic, for their size, had that athleticism/quickness to beat their guy. Especially with Curry, since he doesn’t have the size/strength, it’s really all about his quickness – look around at the good PG’s right now, guys like Rondo and Paul and Parker all have that quickness Curry lacks – guys like Deron Williams and Chauncey have the size to make up for their lack of quickness, Jameer Nelson has that quickness….
It’s not absolutely necessary, there are players that learn to be effective beating their man without that quickness, but in general, most of the really good wing players have it (for their size). As onlnx says, you have to be able to beat your man to truly be great, and it has yet to be seen if Curry will be able to.
So I do see your point – being that smooth, in control athlete, changing speeds…all extremely important. But having the athleticism to go with it is important, too.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
In fairness … what truly great NBA players were real speed burners? Not Magic, not Bird, not Stockton, not Jordan, not Nash, not Drexler, not Kobe, not Pierce, not Allen … and obviously, none of the big men. Outside of maybe KJ and CP3 I can’t think of too many greats who were also sprinters.
But that’s the problem, then, isn’t it? The only players in there as small as Curry are Nash, KJ and CP3, and he’s not nearly as fast as two of them. Unless he has a growth spurt, he has one and only one path to greatness: Nash’s. And Nash 1) had the biggest mid-career leap in NBA history and 2) passed much better than Curry as a rookie.
I’d also note that, somewhat superficially, Curry seems to have the same quasi-zen "mindful" or "present" quality of a Magic or Bird or Stockton.
Curry’s been very good lately, and I’m excited about his potential too. But I just think people are projecting more wisdom onto Curry than his play has merited thus far. He looks like a basketball genius when his creative passes work, but a lot of the time, they don’t… his defense is improving, but we’re not getting all that much value out of it, because he’s still fouling people all the time. I like his relaxed vibe out there, but CJ looks relaxed out there, too.
That’s not to say that Curry hasn’t been good for a 21-year-old rookie… he’s done quite well. But right now, he’s a small man in a big man’s league, without the kind of speed you’d like to see from a guy of his size. It will be a tremendous challenge for him to work past those limitations any more than he’s already been doing, and to assume he’ll be able to do is to put a ton of weight on ephemera (how he looks when he plays, quotes about him) and very little on how he’s actually performed.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
not Jordan
Jordan was an athletic freak early in his career. Obviously at 35 he was more strength than speed, but i recall him being able to get to rim WHENEVER he wanted early on
Jordan was an athletic freak early in his career.
You don’t say.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 27, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
Just to nitpick – I don’t think “freak” is the right word. Guys like Lebron, Wilt, Shaq, Yao, Magic (6’9 PG?!) are “freaks”, in that there had never really been anyone like them before…Jordan was just an elite wing athlete, in the mold of a Dr. J or Dominique, similar to more recent guys like Kobe and TMac, and many others. But yeah, obviously he was a pretty elite athlete.
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2010 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
While perhaps rivaled by the very best, Jordan was among the most explosive players ever, raw athleticism to be faster than most players in the league, able to leap higher than 99% of the league, phenomenal balance and coordination.
If only he could have coupled that with top level skills he could have been one of the greatest ever to play the game…
Too bad Jordan sucked because everyone that comes outta UNC sucks. :)
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Why would we want Curry to average 20 and 10?
If our PG is scoring 20 pts per game we are still lacking the talent that should be around him.
We need to give him a couple guys who can really do the scoring so that he will be more effective. I would be most happy with 13 and 13 or something.
by warriorsvictim on Jan 27, 2010 10:23 AM PST reply actions
Why would we want Curry to average 20 and 10?
please look up CP3’s stats or Steve Nash? Wouldnt you want them on your team???
God Willing...
I'm having visions of the future...
I’m seeing a Curry/Ellis backcourt taking poops on the rest of the NBA for years to come!
We have something very special here. I really hope no one gets traded away. If these two continue to get better we will be a playoff team year in and year out as long as there are people who can breathe at the 3 through 5.
Ellis’s quickness with Curry’s smarts will be dismantling NBA defenses all over the place.
by WheresMyChippy on Jan 27, 2010 12:45 PM PST reply actions
Missed that. I just saw Curry doing his usual “oh no we just did something to screw up at the end of the game” hands on top of his head thing.
Maggs was definitely being a big baby last night though. I like Maggs and was really disappointed to see him pouting like S-Jack..
Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info
by cybermaldonado on Jan 27, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Curry has plenty of athletic ability, he shows that by how good he is at keeping guys in front of him on defense. He creates shots for himself/others & gets inside just fine. Since when does Nash have great athletic ability anyway? People use to say the same thing about Nash when he was young too. Curry is already a million times better on defense than him. You mentioned Jennings, that kid has been horrible the last couple months. I wonder if GS will trade Curry soon?
Reply button helps
Since when does Nash have great athletic ability anyway
I wouldn’t bet on Curry becoming the next Nash. Nash is a very rare and unique player, odds are heavily against someone else developing like Nash. Most players simply don’t.
You mentioned Jennings, that kid has been horrible the last couple months
Just mentioned his weakness as being a positive.
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Monta was absent, but his absence was ever-present in this game. For those stat freaks among you that have been pointing out his lack of efficiency this season, consider this: Monta’s mere presence on the court super-charges the efficiency of his teammates, because he so warps the opposing team’s defense. Try to find something in Hollinger’s PER or Dave Berri’s Wins Produced stats that accounts for that.
I’m not a stat-freak, but if Maggette and the “bigs” play the game they played last night the warriors still don’t win. When Monta is in the game, Maggette still runs Iso play after Iso play. Monta can dish to the big guys, but, clearly, so can Curry. How does Monta help Biedrins rebound, again?
I suppose if Monta shoots at his average and Curry is given all of Maggette’s shots for the game, they would have a chance. Big if. Somehow, I don’t see Curry taking that many, let alone the twenty-two shots he jacked up last night.
Nice to read about Curry's toughness
I had doubts about him at first, but he seems to be a tough intelligent player. Will be exciting to see if he can develop into one of the nba’s elite!
Each player needs an identity.
Lets face it, we don’t have a Lebron or a Kobe on this team, we don’t have a “do everything and your grandma” type player. What we have is young, developing talent, and what needs to happen is each player needs to be given a role and a responsibility. Up til now Nellie has asked Monta to be both a scorer and a distributor and Curry was whatever. Then everyone talks about Curry needing to be more vocal, well how is he supposed to develop that if Monta is calling all the shots?
Curry should be given the primary ball handling, and Monta should stick to what he does best, drive and score. I think this is important because not only does it give Curry a bigger role on the team offensive end so he can grow as a player, but also because it’ll bring Monta back down to ground level. He needs to realize he’s part of a team and they’ll have much more success when people get touches based on how the game is going, and not when he says they do.
We don’t need “Monta Ellis and the Warriors” we need “The Golden State Warriors”
On a related note, if it weren’t for that epic shooting slump, Curry would have had that 20/10 everyone keeps talking about.

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