A Big Man That Could Help Us
by onlxn on Jan 30, 2010 1:25 AM PST
Email
PrintSeriously... we should grab this guy. Check out this line he just put up in 40 minutes:
16 points (8-11 FG), 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 2 turnovers, 4 fouls
Solid stuff, right? He's not a world-beater, but that's some efficient work, and considering how dire things are for us on the boards and around our rim, he could make a big difference.
Who is this player?
IT'S ANDRIS FRIGGIN' BIEDRINS. And if you don't recognize those stats, that's because Nellie has seen fit to only give him forty minutes, TOTAL, over our last two miserable games, in which we were outrebounded by 15 and 16, respectively.
Andris is not an elite player. He's limited offensively; he gets outmuscled at times on defense; his free throws are troubling, to say the least. But other than his free throw woes -- a big issue, but an issue that is neither totally crippling nor totally new -- Andris Biedrins is the exact same player he's always been. He's scoring less often because nobody's running plays for him and grabbing fewer offensive boards because Nellie has him setting screens behind the arc, but he's grabbing defensive boards, affecting shots, making shots and passing as well as he ever has. Andris Biedrins is the same player he's always been: a good one.
More to the point, we suck. And do you know the main three reasons we suck? 1) We're the worst-rebounding team in basketball, 2) we give up the second-most points in the paint of any team in basketball, and 3) we let our opponents shoot better from the field than any team except for the Nets. And when those things are true of your team -- when your opponents are running roughshod all over you on the boards and near your rim -- and you have a player on your roster who
* is one of the ten best rebounders in basketball (the sixth-best rebounder two years ago, the fourth-best rebounder last year, would be eleventh-best this year if he had enough minutes to qualify);
* blocks a ton of shots (would be tenth in the league this year if he had enough minutes to qualify);
* is on pace to be the most efficient field-goal scorer in NBA history;
* passes extremely well for a big man;
* is offensively unselfish, and willing to both find open men and set picks on the perimeter,
* has the rare quality in a center of being able to run the floor with the rest of your team, and
* has been a genuinely good NBA player for three years running...
...then maybe, just maybe, you ought to give the guy some consistent playing time.
Let's be clear: Don Nelson has already failed this test. But you, faithful Warriors fan, you can still pass it. You can realize that Andris Biedrins -- occasionally soft defense, cringeworthy free throws and all -- is a good player, one of our best players, and a player who could help to heal a lot of our wounds if simply allowed to stay on the court for awhile. The problem isn't the B-plus center who's anchored this team for the past three seasons... the problem is the deranged old coach who won't use him anymore.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
129 comments
|
8 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
AB’s a known quantity, and this isn’t a season to keep trotting out our workhorse center. We’re saving him for our championship run next year.
Seriously, it’s just like 20 dudes (and Shells) on this site who keep tuning into broadcasts, keep clicking those atdhe links on game day. Nellie and the players have little investment in individual wins or losses at this point. If anything, I’m glad Nellie isn’t grasping desperately at the record and running AB 45 minutes a game when he might not even be fully healthy.
If he's there health wise below 25 minutes is crazy
He needs to play a lot more. He was rebounding just fine and had 7 boards in 17 minutes tonight. Nelly has officially lost it or he wants to draft a big or trade for one. I’d like Bosh or Whiteside please! But knowing us…. were getting a weak guy who can’t rebound, play defense and can only shoot…..and european, you ask who? Donatas Motiejunas that’s who!
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
Donatas by all accounts isn't a bad rebounder.
His first few weeks in the new league, he was doing terrible, but now he knows all the nuances and has gained some more muscle, now he is rebounding pretty decently now.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
I feel like he will struggle at that when he comes in
He doens’t have the physical toughness he needs right now. He will be able to score but I see him as at best Bargnani.
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
I see him the same way that Pau Gasol was when he entered the league.
I say he will be more like Gasol rather than Bargnani because he has a nice post game, and he relies on that more than his outside shooting. Not to say he can’t shoot well, but he plays more like a low post guy rather than a jumpshooter.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
But i do agree
he needs to add some strength.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
I don't see the Bargnani comparison
besides them both being European big men whose last names start with B.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 1, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
That's what I get for not reading
But yeah, M is the Cyrillic character for B. Didn’t you know that? haha
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 2, 2010 2:20 AM PST up reply actions
Playing Andris Biedrins 40 minutes a game is... "Impossible Baby!"
onlxn- I really do appreciate the insights and you make numerous valid points. (Hint, hint they’d look fantastic on the front page!)
BUT unless you have some data that indicates that a big man’s, at least one as unskilled as Biedrins, foul rate declines as they play more minutes, this is an impossible extrapolation of his stat line.
Biedrins is currently at 5.6 fouls per 36. At 40 minutes he would be putting up 6.2 fouls- meaning he could never average that many minutes in the first place.
Also I’d venture to say that the more Biedrins plays, the more the opposing starting center (who he’s losing the matchup to every night) will play and put up even bigger numbers. That is not a good thing. The quicker Nellie can get the opposing starting center off the court the better. (See my comment about what if Nazr played 40 minutes last night instead of matching Biedrins’ 16 in the game links)
Biedrins is what he is- a very nice role player with elite rebounding skills. He is not a 40 minute a game player with all his flaws both on offense and defense. Making him the 2nd highest paid player on this roster was on of Mullin’s final mistakes.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 30, 2010 8:44 AM PST reply actions
Mullin didn't make as many mistakes as you say.
9 million a year for a center like Biedrins is a good thing. Look at numerous deals around the league for big men. Okafor, Bogut, and Chandler have much worse deals than Biedrins, and they aren’t much better ( if they are better) players than Biedrins.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
Why the starting center "match up" is pointless.
Atma, is Biedrins is playing 20 minutes a night, you can not hold him responsible for the performance of the opposing center, who he shares the floor with, what for the first 8 minutes of the game, maybe, and that’s it?
I don’t think Atma realizes that the opposing starting center often goes against a defensively challenged lineup with Tolliver/Turiaf at the 5 and Martin or Maggette at the 4. Some stiffs would do well on the boards against that lineup. And most likely the opposing stiff would do well on inside shots at the rim against that defensively challenged lineup. And Nazr has been having a very good season if i must point out. Per 36 Nazr has been excellent (especially considering the very slow pace of which the bobcats play):
18 PPG
10.7 RPG
2 BPG
55% shooting
only 4.2 Fouls
so i don’t know what point there is in making Nazr played a good game; He usually plays a good game.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
Making him the 2nd highest paid player on this roster was on of Mullin’s final mistakes.
At 9 mil per year, Andris is not overpaid compared to what other young reasonably productive centers are making. His foul rate and his new found ‘timidness’ is quite troublesome at the moment. If he can just play like he did the last couple of seasons Andris is a 10 center in the league.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 30, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
i’d take bogut in a minute outta those three, has an offensive move and big enough(not a great defender) to distrupt the middle.
Warriors game's on...I need a beer.
by it's always sunny in california on Jan 30, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
If you saw his actual production, lack of health throughout his career, age, and his superstar contract, i’d think you’d re-think that.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Bogut is way too injury prone, and his contract is way worse than Andris
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 1, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
He couldn’t play 40 minutes a night, but he could certainly play 30. Even including the three whistles last night, his foul rate has been steadily dropping back to its normal level: high, but not so high that you can’t get 30 minutes a night out of the guy.
In the last five games, here are Biedrins’s foul totals: 3, 3, 2, 1, 3. Seeing as you get six fouls before you’re asked to leave, the idea that he’s been iced due to foul trouble doesn’t hold much water.
As for him being outplayed every night… let’s do things your way and look at the numbers. When Biedrins has been in, how’s he done, and what has the opposing center done when playing against him?
Biedrins: 4 points on 3 shots, 7 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover, 3 fouls
Mohammed: 6 points on 5 shots, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers, 1 foul
WINNER: Mohammed. Not exactly what you’d call a blowout, but, Mohammed.
Biedrins: 12 points on 8 shots, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 1 turnover, 1 foul
Okafor: 10 points on 5 shots, 9 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover, 2 fouls
WINNER: I’d call that a push.
Biedrins: 8 points on 6 shots, 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 2 blocks, 1 turnover, 2 fouls
Hawes: 13 points on 8 shots, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 steals, 2 blocks, 1 turnover, 2 fouls
WINNER: Hawes by a tad.
Biedrins: 2 points on 5 shots, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 turnovers, 3 fouls
Robin Lopez: 8 points on 4 shots, 6 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers, 1 foul
WINNER: Lopez, due to the turnovers..
Biedrins: 7 points of 5 shots, 10 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers, 3 fouls
Brook Lopez: 9 points on 7 shots, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 0 turnovers, 2 fouls
WINNER: Biedrins.
Biedrins: 4 points on 4 shots, 13 rebounds, 4 assists, 0 steals, 3 blocks, 0 turnovers, 6 fouls
Nene: 7 points on 3 shots, 6 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 2 blocks, 2 turnovers, 2 fouls
WINNER: Biedrins. He got in foul trouble, which was a negative. But Nene did most of his damage when Biedrins sat… in his 31 minutes, Biedrins badly outplayed Nene.
Biedrins: 9 points on 5 shots, 19 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 7 blocks, 3 turnovers, 4 fouls
Noah: 4 points on 10 shots, 16 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 1 turnover 5 fouls
WINNER: Biedrins.
Overall Averages:
Biedrins: 6.6 points on 4.4 shots, 9.7 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 0.8 steals, 2.1 blocks, 1.3 turnovers, 3.1 fouls
Opponent: 8.1 points on 6 shots, 8.7 rebounds, 1.0 assists, 0.6 steals, 0.9 blocks, 0.7 turnovers, 2.1 fouls
By my calculcation, in his last seven games, Andris Biedrins has outplayed three starting centers, been outplayed by three, and played one pretty much to a draw. Overall, he has been*outplaying* opposing starting centers when on the floor: scoring less often but more efficiently, outrebounding them, outpassing them, and producing more defensively than them. He does foul more often than they do, and he needs cut down down on his foul rate, but he’s been doing that… even given last night, his foul rate is dramatically lower than it was two weeks ago.
Also, did I miss the part where we’ve been handling opposing centers effectively without Biedrins?
The idea that Andris Biedrins sucks is a bad joke. And the idea that a dogcrap team like this one, that’s being outmuscled as badly as any team in league history, couldn’t use more of him… that’s a worse joke.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
by onlxn on Jan 30, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Biedrins: 4 points on 3 shots, 7 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block, 1 turnover, 3 fouls
Mohammed: 6 points on 5 shots, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 0 turnovers, 1 foul
WINNER: Mohammed. Not exactly what you’d call a blowout, but, Mohammed.
Its not like Mohammed is a stiff. This year, he has been really good.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
agreed except I wouldn’t call Okafor getting 2 less points on 3 less shots while outrebounding him 9 to 5 a push. I’d call that an Okafor win.
anyway, i don’t care if these guys think Andris sucks or how much he’s getting outplayed by. your point is still 100% valid – having Andris in the game at C hurts the dubs less than having anyone else on this team play C.
by homer simpson on Jan 30, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder what, if any, effect our terrible perimeter defense has on Biedrins opponents stats. I’ve noticed a couple times recently where they’ve gotten the ball wide open under the hoop because Biedrins had to help on a smaller guy who beat his man (surprise, I know). Obviously this will happen to even the best defensive teams at times, so I’m not using it as evidence, just throwing it out there as a possibility that his man might benefit from the rest of our team not playing defense…
by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
The thing I never understood about foul rates ...
When you have an effective player who fouls a bit too much, why do you bench him to stop him from fouling out?
“Oh no … if he gets a couple of more fouls, he’ll have to sit out. To stop that from happening, I’ll make him sit out!”
With most players, the idea is that you want to save him for the end of the game. In Biedrins’ case, because his foul shooting is so awful that he can’t play at the end of the game, it makes no sense at all.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
his foul shooting is so awful that he can’t play at the end of the game, it makes no sense at all.
Yeah, Why don’t they just lock him up in Rick Barry’s backyard and not let him out til he’s learned to shoot 80% underhand?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
Except that's not really the case.
The only time you can’t play a player late because of fouls is:
a) If you expect him to handle the ball
b) You have a small lead.
c) You’re in the bonus.
Neither of those have been the case with Biedrins this year, or, honestly, for most of his career.
No, I wouldn’t run a post-up play to Biedrins in the waning minutes of a game with a small lead … but then, I wouldn’t run that play very often anyway.
A lot of what Biedrins brings to the table is absolutely appropriate late in the game: his offensive rebounding and his shot-blocking ability are utterly unaffected by his FT troubles. Defensive reboudning might be an issue (as the other team will foul to get the ball back) but if Biedrins returns to his 52% career FT rate, then fouling him simply beause it’s late in the game is a losing strategy.
(Most teams average about a point per possession, which Beans gets you on two FTs).
You might have to pull him in the final minute, up by one or two, but that’s about it. And that’s only because you’re afraid that the other team will foul him before he can outlet the ball after a defensive rebound.
On the other hand, since the alternative for this team seems to be letting the team get as many offensive boards as they need until they score, I’m not sure you should pull him even in those circumstances!
Well, how many times has a team gotten an offensive rebound that led to another possession where the other team made the game winning shot? Biedrins’ helps that out so much more than he hurts us with his free throw.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Feb 1, 2010 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
If you were an opposing coach, wouldn’t you be pretty happy letting the 52% FT shooter try to beat you if it meant neutralizing the other teams’ more productive offensive players? If he shoots 52% (which he may or may not be able to do, let’s not act like we aren’t seriously concerned), I still can’t really see how Hack-a-Beans won’t be employed by any intelligent coach at the end of a game.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
We’d need to be feeding the ball to Biedrins to make that strategy possible. If you foul him at the end of the game when he doesn’t have the ball, we’d get the ball back immediately. Thank you, Wilt, for making that rule change happen. Your ineptitude from the line is a blessing for us all.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Hmm...
I thought that was a more recent rule (8-10 years old). IIRC we can thank Shaq for that.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
They might have changed it a bit since then, but it started with Wilt and there were some changes made due to Shaq, but I forgot exactly what they were.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Yeah, that sounds right.
I think they extended it from whatever it used to be to the last two minutes.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
“We’d have to be feeding him the ball”
Or, he’d have to be inhaling rebounds, which is the reason we’d have him in the game in the first place. His FT shooting is a serious liability in a close game. He is a very good player and I want him on the squad, but this is a major shortcoming.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
All he has to do is get his FT shooting ability up to ~56-57% and it’s not a liability at all.
by Missing Barry on Feb 3, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Or, he’d have to be inhaling rebounds, which is the reason we’d have him in the game in the first place. His FT shooting is a serious liability in a close game.
Two situational options:
1. Biedrins grabs a rebound, gets fouled, misses both free throws, the other team has the ball 80 feet away from the basket.
2. The other team grabs the rebound, and has the ball 2 feet away from the basket.
Sure, you could put someone in to grab some rebounds, but they will grab fewer… much fewer given Biedrins’ track record and that of EVERYONE ELSE ON OUR TEAM (Randolph aside).
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 3, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
All he has to do is get his FT shooting ability up to ~56-57% and it’s not a liability at all.
I would still take my chances with a shaky 56% who has no form and no ability to compensate for his misses at the line. With most guys, when they miss the first one, they make the second because they can adjust. Biedrins’ “shot” is so fugly and lacking in form that he probably shoots a lower percentage on the second shot following a miss (Because his confidence is wrecked. I’m sure I could look this up somewhere but I don’t feel like it).
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Well, the point is, 56% FT’ing is essentially equal to 56% TS% (1 and 1’s skew this a bit, but would we expect many of those?)….
by Missing Barry on Feb 4, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
The equivalence between TS% and FT%, while true, suffers a tiny bit in the waning moments of a game when conditional strategy starts to become much more important than playing the odds. If a team knows it needs to foul to have a chance -odds are already against the team in that position- the team with the ball is not optimizing only their return on investment in shots and points per possession, but looking to kill clock. That equation gets fuzzy, but the best bet for the trailing team is to get the lousiest shooter to the line as quickly as possible. The team in the lead may actively pass up reasonable shooting opportunities in favor of killing the clock, only taking absolute gimmees from the floor. The difference between a 60% shooter over the course of a season and a 40% shooter don’t come into play as much if the instructions are “don’t shoot anything but a dunk or uncontested layup —we’re killing clock!”. But the difference between a 60% FT shooter and an 80% FT shooter do matter since in clock killing situations, someone is very, very likely to go to the line.
Passing it to Biedrins in such a situation more or less guarantees that you’ll give the other team their best chance even if it’s still not a good chance. If he gets a rebound, it’s also likely that there’s going to be no clock killing opportunity since he’ll be fouled immediately. I don’t know where the tradeoff actually lies and tend to think that the conservative “bad FT shooter = cannot play late in games” is overblown, but it does start getting more complex when clock management becomes key.
Ok, I can see that, though again, that’s only if it’s a tight game, we’re up, and it’s to the point where the other team has to foul immediately, which I imagine is only a small portion of the time we’re talking about for the subject “can’t player the player late in the game”, and even then, a lot of the time Biedrins still won’t touch the ball and get fouled….
by Missing Barry on Feb 4, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Realistically, you're talking about the last 45 seconds of the game, only.
Before that, it’s very rare that a team will decide to intentionally foul the defensive rebounder the moment he rebounds it. Even if it’s the correct strategy, very few NBA players are savvy enough to realize that “you foul Biedrins if he grabs the board, but not Turiaf or Randolph.”
Once he’s outlet the ball, there’s no reason for him to touch it again unless it’s a dish off a drive or an offensive rebound, at which point it’s not really a traditional “intentional” foul anyway.
very few NBA players are savvy enough to realize that "you foul Biedrins if he grabs the board, but not Turiaf or Randolph."
In the flow of a game, yes. But if your coach reminded you in a timeout to foul Biedrins but not the others? It becomes far more likely to happen.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 5, 2010 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not convinced.
Because, remember, the timeout happens before the offense runs a play. So he diagrams up the play, and then he says, “and if they rebound it, don’t foul, unless it’s biedrins then foul right away?” – I mean, maybe, but if Biedrins can outlet the ball quickly, it’s really hard for a player to make that decision.
Which is not to say that he won’t get fouled in that situation, because player’s getfouled going for rebounds.
But that’s my point: this primarily becomes a liability VERY late in the game, when they’d be fouling anyone anyway. With even 30 seconds left, down by one or two, the correct strategy is almost always to play defense and try to get a stop, rather than to foul.
I don't think it'd be a problem either way
I pretty much agree that the only situation where it would be a real liability is if you’re in the they’re fouling whoever gets the ball immediately phase… in which case you don’t need rebounders, just good FT shooters on the court to ice the game. Almost no centers will ever be on the court in this situation.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 5, 2010 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
Mullin was a better GM than the majority of GM’s in this league.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 9:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
It would be fun to see
Biedrinds, Turiaf, and Randolph (when he comes back) play the whole game rotating between the 4/5. Using ‘stretch’ 4 and 5’s isnt really working when we give up so many boards. Last night we shot over 50% but we got blown out due to rebounding.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 30, 2010 10:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
But Ronny doesn't help us with rebounding or defense.
He gets blocks, but he is an attrocious rebounder, a bad scorer ( and not an efficient one) and it appears based off the stats, the warriors defense isn’t any better when he is on the court. I don’t see him shut down, or stop other teams low post scorers. I like Turiaf’s energy but he is vastly overrated by some, and there is a reason our rebounding is so terrible when he is the game as the backup 5 on a rebounding deficient team like the Warriors. He is not helping us win games, and it remains likely he isn’t going to improve his rebounding, defense, or scoring.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
I don’t really like Ronny as the backup 4, espicially when he is on the court without another big man. In th beginning of the year in the few games before Ronny and Andris went down, they were great for the few streches they played toghether. Ronny would go out and contest shots and attack big men trying to get to the hoop and Andris would hang back as the last line of defense and clean up the glass. I would love to see the Warriors really just play with a legit 4 and 5 for a change. The excitement on the offensive side by small ball quickly becomes just as depressing as watching the massacre on the defensive side and on the glass.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 30, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The excitement on the offensive side by small ball quickly becomes just as depressing as watching the massacre on the defensive side and on the glass.
This sums up my view of the season. Not exciting. I’d rather watch a bobcat team that is slow, bad offensively, but wins games with great defense.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Comparison
Onlxn’s main point:
the problem is the deranged old coach
AB1’s typical nonsense:
Making him the 2nd highest paid player on this roster was on of Mullin’s final mistakes.
Now, who should we blame….the coach who is currently on the team, who is responsible for coaching and substitution patterns, who has been the coach for the past 4 years, and is now involved in personnel decisions…or should we blame the former GM, who was forced out by that coach and his posse, who signed a very solid center (see Onlxn’s stats above) to a market-value contract
AB1’s only mention of Nellie is here:
The quicker Nellie can get the opposing starting center off the court the better.AB1, are you confused? Brainwashed? An employee of the Cohan/Nellie administration? Really, are you just dying to get the opposing crappy center off the court? Unless the center’s name is Howard or Yao, why are we so eager to get Nene, Noah, Hawes, and Nazzy Mohammad off the court?
He points out some foul numbers/36, which while true, have little to do with the coach’s general gameplan. The foul situation on Biedrins just gives the coach a bad excuse to play small-ball and then conveniently “forget” to put the big man back in the game. Fans like AB1 who don’t pin the blame directly where it should be placed are the reason Nellie has so many supporters, and it’s also one of the reasons this team is horrible. I wonder how many more losing seasons and unbearable games we have to go through before AB1 might consider a change.
For the 913th time, I wholeheartedly agree with Onlxn and disagree with AB1.
Actually, since I cannot recall ever agreeing with anything AB1 has to say, let’s just assume that if he posts “It’s a beautiful day outside,” it means it’s cold, rainy, and windy.
by UncleCliffy on Jan 30, 2010 12:44 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
+1 on most of your points.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Nellie’s handling of Andris this year has been terrible and his handling of Monta isn’t much better. As much as I love the guy, I won’t be disappointed if he grabs the record this year and rides off into the sunset.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 30, 2010 3:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I actually feel a need to qualify the Andris statement. If Andris isn’t totally healthy and could make his injury worse by playing, he shouldn’t be on the court at all. If reaggrevating that injury isn’t a real risk, then he should be playing 30 minutes or so per game. We can all acknowledge that we aren’t looking at the Biedrins of two years ago right now, but he’s better than anyone else we have and if he’s not going to make his injury worse, play him accordingly. Of course, there’s no sense playing him in a lost season if he could make matters worse and his PT prevents him from being healthy next year. Either way, the coaching staff is botching this.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 30, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Problem is, he is the same player he was a year ago, just they are giving him less involvement in the offense. The free-throwing is the big problem with me. I mean the last 2-3 years he was around at least 55-60% which is not great but much better than the 10%ish he is doing right now.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I think he’s a step slower on defense too, but on offense and on the glass (though, oddly enough, not on the offensive glass), we’re essentially getting the same guy as always and that guy happens to be a pretty good player.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 30, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
this year
personally, i feel his mishandling has been more lately than this year. Andris hurt his back in game 3, then got his osteitis pubis injury in game 5. once he came back, they played him 20 min/g for 7 games, then he started seeing 30+ minutes regularly (33, 34, 39 & 31)… all fine. even the Nets game of 26 min was okay seeing as how the 4th Q was garbage time.
Then Nellie gets a little wacky and Andris’s minutes dip to 25 in PHX, 24 in Sac, 23 vs NOH & 17 vs the Bobcats. PHX, okay, when Frye’s in the game, it’s a stretch to ask Andris to extend out to the 3. And maybe Frye came in at an inopportune time like just after Andris got his rest & was ready to check back in. one explanation could be that Andris wasn’t ready for the minute bump and has experienced fatigue and is asking out. If you sit on your butt all day for 2 months, your bound to be out of shape. in fairness to Nellie, Andris was the worst plus/minus guy in PHX & SAC and 2nd worst only to CJ in NOH – so maybe he was seeing something we’re not picking up on.
They really should be playing Andris as much as possible at the 5. When Andris is out & Ronny is in, they should at least try to counterbalance that with Tolliver at 4 & Vlad at the 3. Though with the #2 slot in arms reach, the order of the day might be to keep doing what they are doing.
by homer simpson on Jan 30, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
I hadn’t really noticed that bump in minutes between this recent stretch and immediately after he returned. I wonder if Nellie panicked a bit when the team wasn’t winning in that stretch of games (1-4, not counting New Jersey) and immediately reverted to smallball. It’s unacceptable, but I’m just trying to figure out the rationale.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
if AB is healthy, and if he could help Nelson get to his record, why wouldn’t Nelson play him?
we have to assume Nelson wants to win, wants that record. Andris is still coming back from injury, still recuperating and getting back his wind; he’ll play more
there’s always more to a story, would help to have some inside info on this one
Problem is he is playing well, and it doesn’t make sense to sit a guy who appears to be over injuries and is playing well at a position that is in dire need right now. Rebounding is our main issue, so why take out an efficient scorer and amazing rebounder for a non efficient scorer who doesn’t rebound nearly as well ( Turiaf, Vladi).
This is what scares me right now. If Nelson will barely play Biedrins right now, what happens when Randolph comes back. Two non jumpshooters on the floor for Nellie at the same time…..gasp
Well, wait, Maggette isn’t exactly a jumpshooter either. And Monta still isn’t a good 3 point shooter, so in Nellie’s mind, that is 4(!!!!) non 3 point shooters. Scary thoughts for someone like Nellie. Once Randolph returns, I don’t think we will see him play much. And i don’t think we will see more than 25 minutes for Biedrins.
This scares me, because any other coach in the league would obviously put out the best lineup, even if there are 3 non 3 point shooters in there.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly. You've highlighted the biggest problem.
In 90% of the basketball offenses yousee, the 4 and 5 have identical offensive responsibilities. (You might post one up more if he was a better post-up player, but they’re asked to do the same thing). Under Nellie, the 4 is asked to be a 3.
Why not just run an offense that makes sense for our personelle?
Because Nellie is too lazy to adjust like D’Antoni and SVG did with their clubs. They’re not necessarily running the system they find the most ideal, but the system that works best for their talent.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Feb 1, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
Biedrins is the man
just need Randolph to step up when he’s healthy
by GoldenSt8OfMind on Jan 30, 2010 6:00 PM PST reply actions
The problem isn't the B-plus center who's anchored this team for the past three seasons.
That sounds like the problem? If one of our best players is a B- who can’t earn 36 minutes from any coach we’ve got a problem.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 30, 2010 8:50 PM PST reply actions
Love AB and since this draft is loaded I am dreaming of giving him DeMarcus Cousins as an understudy.
This guy has it all…I have been following his progress since high school and he has it all.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 30, 2010 9:01 PM PST reply actions
I’m a fan AB, but #1 I don’t know how heatlhy he is and #2 his free-throw shooting has been the devil. We’re not going to win with or without him right now, so I don’t know why people are upset about him getting less minutes. We’re not exactly making a play-off push. If his minutes don’t go up as his free-throw shooting improves in the next month or two, that will be troubling. Currently, I am thinking nothing of it. Nellie likes big men with jump shots anyway and is probably paranoid Biedrins will get hurt again, preventing the trade he has in mind… Amar’e, maybe?
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
If we replace Biedrins with Amar’e,
this could be one of the worst defensive and rebounding teams of all time.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 31, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
He’s taken 20 FT’s. His FT should not be a factor in any decision made to Biedrin’s PT, if it is, then our coaches need a few lessons in statistics and the concept of sample size….
by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
Ryan Garko
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Feb 1, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions
Let’s not even go there. There are so many decisions the Giants make on small, meaningless sample sizes. :(
by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
the giants give me hope
hope that if i ever hit 2 home runs in a rec league game, they may sign me for 1-2 mil. I am a gamer…
WE’RE IN THIS THING!!
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Feb 1, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, I’m guessing you’re not old enough to play for them.
by Missing Barry on Feb 2, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions
But of those 20, he’s made like 1 or 2. That is troubling.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Yeah, sure, 2-20 sucks, but it’s still a very small sample. I don’t see any reason why it should mean more than 20 shots out of the hundreds he’s taken in the last 2-3 years…
by Missing Barry on Feb 2, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Could be a SSS issue, but it could also be SSSS: “Steve Sax Short-arming Syndrome.” That’s the way it appears to me anyway — like he’s totally psyched out and not even giving himself a chance. Hard to get the ball through the hole when it’s coming in from below the front rim…
Here’s hoping it’s SSSSS: “Short-lived Steve Sax Short-arming Syndrome…”
There will be no extra point!
That is not too small a sample size to show horrendous free throw shooting. I have never in my life shot below 50% from the FT line in 20 shots, in all my years playing basketball. You have to be the free throw shooter from hell to shoot that badly. Shaq never shot that badly in his career.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
The real question is simply -
Do you think he’s going to revert to form, and shoot slightly above 50% from here on out, or do you think something has changed that needs to be fixed, and he’s going to keep shooting it that badly?
…do you get the point of sample size? We’re projecting the future, the whole idea behind projecting the future is to find the players talent level, and you do that by looking at the samples. 20 shots are 20 shots, assuming his true talent didn’t change much (why would it have changed signficantly?), you simply add those into all your other observations to get the biggest sample you can. Bigger sample = better. We know Biedrins is a bad FT shooter. We also know he’s a lot better than 2-20, because he has a much larger track record saying he is. Much, much larger.
I have never in my life shot below 50% from the FT line in 20 shots, in all my years playing basketball.
…Exaggerate much? In all your years? So you just came out shooting 90% just like that? I’ll throw out that you probably haven’t taken that many groups of 20 shots, then. Also keep in mind FT% goes way down in game situations. Fatigue is a bitch like that. Plus, there’s probably a positive effect on your shooting percentage if you sit at the line and shoot 20 in a row, versus shooting them in pairs over the course of a bunch of games…
by Missing Barry on Feb 3, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
Well, when I was about 10, I probably shot below 50% from the free-throw line. But I have been able to make free-throws in game situations. Also, 90%? I don’t recall making that claim.
We don’t know that next game nor the game after that, he’ll shoot better than 10%. His free throws have looked consistently awful. He line drives it off the front of the rim on BOTH ATTEMPTS. Something is wrong with his FT shooting right now, and he needs to fix it. You don’t miss 90% of your free throws in 20 attempts and expect people to be optimistic for the next game or two.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Sample error, sample error, sample error. Sure, maybe his FT shooting is worse right now then it’s been in the past for some mechanical or rust reason or something, but it’s much, much better than 10%.
We don’t know that next game nor the game after that, he’ll shoot better than 10%.
But that’s exactly the point. We don’t know the future. All we can do is try to play the odds. Odds are, he’s much, much better than 10%. Where do those odds come from? A lot of places – he’s a career 52% FT% shooter, which is a much bigger (and therefore more meaningful) sample. The last two seasons he’s shot 62% and 55.1%, again, in bigger samples. Ben Wallace is the worst FT shooter of all time, and even he shoots almost 42% – horrible, yes, but much, much higher than 10%. When it comes to projecting the future, we can’t know what’s going to happen, all we can do is try to figure out a players talent level and use that as the prediction (knowing there’s going to be sample error, and the smaller the sample, the more sample error there is). There’s nothing to suggest he’s even close to a 10% talent level, even if there is something wrong and he’s shooting poorly and below his past talent levels. 10% is that unusual that it’s almost certainly largely a product of sample error.
Anyways, the whole 90% point was that you’d have to shoot a really, really high percentage to not have one bad streak of 20 shots where you make, say 9 of 20, at least if you’ve taken a lot of FT’s. Sample error! It happens.
by Missing Barry on Feb 4, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
Odds are, he’s much, much better than 10%.
I’d say that odds are he’s less, less worse than 10%, even 50% is not good.
I’d bet money that Dris could be better than he’s ever been if he’d learn the underhand toss. His long arms would be halfway to the rim before he had to release the ball. If I was nellie I’d offer Dris a free new car to try it for one season and see how it worked.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I’ve always been a pretty good free throw shooter. I think I’ve missed both free-throws once in my life. Granted, it’s a relatively small sample size, but I’m sorry 2/20 is only possible with a freakishly bad free-throw shooter. Like I said, Shaq, with all of his free throws, never went 2/20. I know he’s better than 10%, but his form looks so much like how Satan would certainly want him to shoot, and 10% is freakishly bad, I don’t trust him to make free throws at all right now. He’s had a streak of several games, where he simply can’t make them. I suspect he’s been missing them in practice as well.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Like I said, Shaq, with all of his free throws, never went 2/20.
Maybe. He certainly went 2/16 at least once, including a single game where he went 0/11.
He’s had a streak of several games, where he simply can’t make them.
Actually, for the most part, he’s had streaks where he hasn’t even gotten to the line. In 16 of 23 games he’s played, he hasn’t even attempted a FT. Hard to have say that he’s had a streak of several games where he simply can’t make them when he simply doesn’t take them.
I wasn’t counting the games where he didn’t shoot FT’s. That Shaq’s worst was only a little better than Biedrins is hardly complimentary. Shaq’s career FT shooting is garbage, as we all know. Also, Shaq’s pluses outweigh bad free-throw shooting more than Biedrins’ pluses. No knock on Biedrins, but he’s no Shaq. I don’t know that his poor free throw shooting necessarily warrants giving him only 20 min.‘s a game, but I can’t say it doesn’t warrant it either. As I’ve pointed out, we’re not exactly in the playoff hunt, Biedrins is coming off a tough injury, and we may be looking to trade him. More minutes means more risk of reinjury. More minutes also means more risk of people pulling hack-a-Biedrins on us.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
I think I’ve missed both free-throws once in my life
!!
by Missing Barry on Feb 4, 2010 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
Agree completely that Andris should be playing more
But his injury is neither a known quantity nor something to be taken lightly. I’d rather have him worked slowly back in this season (which was already lost before he came back), and see what we’ve got going forwards (i.e. a player who’s osteitis pubis is going to keep acting up or if its something that can be managed).
What I really want is fewer minutes for Monta. He should not be continuing to kill himself for this lost season. It doesn’t help his performance (how much it hurts is debatable), and it leaves him open to injury.
If Don is seriously trying to win basketball games and Andris is still in pain, but “ready to go” (which, frankly, Maggette & Jax were last year… yet they were playing 30-40 MPG with an injured wrist and hammy respectively), Andris should be playing more. If Don is preparing his team for a clean slate next year, he should be careful with Andris irrespective of John Wall.
I like the “get the team ready for next year” strategy, and it seems to be happening with Andris at least, but do I believe Don Nelson is doing that deliberately? Not hardly. Sigh…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 31, 2010 12:23 PM PST reply actions
I’d tend to agree, and I’d be down with a conservative strategy if it was extended team-wide, as you say. If we’re being careful with Biedrins, why not cut Monta to 32 minutes a night? Why force Ronny to play on a seriously messed-up knee, or run Curry into the ground? And why did Biedrins get heavy minutes upon first returning, only to see them cut lately despite good play and no evidence of physical troubles?
“Get the team ready for next year” is a coherent philosophy. “See what the young guys can do” is a coherent philosophy. “Win now” is a coherent philosophy, if an odd one for a bad team in January. But there’s no coherent philosophy behind what we’re currently seeing, which is the most troubling part.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
But there’s no coherent philosophy behind what we’re currently seeing,
I’ve been saying this the last 2 years. Finally someone else agrees.
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Jan 31, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve been saying this the last 2 years. Finally someone else agrees.
There hasn’t been a coherent philosophy since the end of the Utah playoff series.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2010 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There hasn’t been a coherent philosophy since the end of the Utah playoff series.
Rec’d
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Developing trade talks? Biedrins’ doctor(s) suggesting he needs to cut down, as he’s not fully healed? I personally don’t care, as long as this is temporary. Nellie himself said that the abdominal strain is one of the most difficult injuries to come back from. If he started suffering from inflammation again, they might want to keep that on the down low and not blab about it, preventing possible trades. So if that is the problem, we wouldn’t be hearing about it.
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
Rick's Rant on NBA.com says it all
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2010/02/01/20100201_ricks_rant2.nba/index.html
I agree with Rick Kamla on this one.
Thanks for the link...
He’s right about this one. On a side note I can’t help but think of this guy when Kamla starts “ranting”.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
by olympicmike on Feb 1, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
For serious!
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 1, 2010 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
whats the latest of stoudemire?
i really think he is the answer for us at PF and for just being an all around contender. i am perfectly content with keeping and starting ellis, curry, beidrins, and maggette if amare is in that starting line up too
by nhlogan on Feb 1, 2010 3:05 PM PST reply actions
First, you aren’t getting Amare without giving up Curry, Ellis, Biedrins or Maggs. Amare for Randolph isn’t going to happen.
Second, a no-defense, poor rebounding 4 is not what’s going to make us a contender. He scores, but doesn’t do anything else. I’ll take my chances on Randolph at the 4 for much less money than Amare killing our capspace and defense with some atrocious contract.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Amare is not the answer to any of our problems. At this point I probably would do the Maggs for Amare without an extension deal, just to clear cap space. I see no reason PHX would do it however.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
As great as Maggs has been this year, I’d probably want cap space and an asset (nothing spectacular, just a useful throw in) to move him. I wouldn’t throw a fit if we dealt him for expirings, but I have to think that someone who has played as well as he has this year could net us a little more.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Yes
Biedrins is a beast but he cant get a rythm with 25 mins a game him and turiaf together will be good but nelson isnt smart
This draft is our best hope for a future all star big man !
Go to statsheet.com and compare Demarcus Cousins stats per gm so far with Carlos Boozers freshman year(and Soph yr) at Duke. They both played center, although Boozer play a min more per gm DC’s ppg is 16.2 to Boozers 13, rb per gm, rpg-DC/9.8 Boozer 6.3, blocks pg DC 1.9 ,Boozer .7 ..turnovers pg DC-1.77, Boozer 1.6
Plus Cousins had better stats compared to Boozers soph yr as well….Boozers stat pg did not basically pass Cousins untill his junior yr
They were both at comparitive ages freshman year and both at quality programs/nationally ranked teams so I thought that this would be an interesting comparisons.
And for a big laugh I am sure that many hear know that we passed on Amare Stoudimire for Dunleavy with our first round pick and passed on Boozer in the second round for Steve Logan Ha!
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 4, 2010 12:54 PM PST reply actions
Wow. We are idiots. Dunleavy over Stoudemire, huh? lol
Welcome to the Pit of Despair! Don't even think about trying to escape.
You must have missed where “Only in Fairfax” was clamoring in the GSoM Draft Day 2002 thread for us to grab Stoudemire with the #3 pick. Clamoring, I tell you!
There will be no extra point!
Wear was he clamoring?
Was he doing it hear? Or was he doing it their? Was he doing it everywear? Is there any documentation to prove this clamoring was done around hear?
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 4, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
we passed on Amare Stoudimire for Dunleavy with our first round pick and passed on Boozer in the second round for Steve Logan
So should we pass on John Wall for Cousins?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt that we would have the #1 pick so Cousins may be in reach as a top 5 pick
but I would not at all be disappointed to end up with Cousins instead of Wall considering that we have Curry and Monte. It seems to me that if we lucked into a future “savior” that it will have to be an all star big man….we dream of Randolf becoming the next Chris Bosh but even so we will need a “Superman”/Howard for any chance.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 5, 2010 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
play AB and run some plays for him!
the season is already lost. time to start helping our quality young players develop and improve for upcoming seasons. Biedrins is signed and making $11m as the Long Term center for this franchise, so play him more than 20 MINUTES PER GAME!!
AB is averaging only 5 shots per game over the last 5 games played, ONLY 5!! and zero FTs per game (i realize his free throw shooting is paltry but zero attempts shows a lack of touches). how does this help his improvement as a player??
give him minutes and run some plays for him on the low block…it might hurt Nelson’s run to the wins record, but would help the long term franchise center develop some much needed offensive skills.
the season is already lost. time to start helping our quality young players develop and improve
We don’t want them to improve to the point that they start winning and take us out of the John Wall race. If anyone in the FO has any interest in the future of this team they’ll keep doing exactly what they have been doing and hope the losses continue.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 7, 2010 8:19 PM PST reply actions
But then Nelson will return...
Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!
by monta.da.boss on Feb 7, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
But then Nelson will return...
Let him, even nellie couldn’t kill a John Wall high
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 7, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
Thats it.We dont need a big.We need a superstar point guard.Thats just what this team needs.Dont draft a Big draft another Point guard.John Wall for mayor.
We need a superstar
Glad you’re finally catching on. That’s exactly the point.
by Missing Barry on Feb 9, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
The corrolary to that is
We don’t have a current superstar on our roster. Curry, Randolph, Monta? Maybe in the future, and in that order of likelyhood.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 11, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
I'd probably even throw our first round draft pick in there above Monta & maybe Randolph...
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 11, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
Glad you’re finally catching on.
Boy that took forever ?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 9, 2010 1:55 PM PST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"
Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Most Commented
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
