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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Recap: Charlotte Bobcats 121, Golden State Warriors 110- A modest proposal to do away with the 3rd.

 


Who says that there have to be 4 quarters in an NBA game?  Hockey does just fine with 3 periods.  Sure, not having grown up in an arctic wilderness, hockey rightfully has no appeal to me at all.  Do not trust people from temperate and subtropical climates who profess to love hockey.  There's something deeply wrong with it.  If you cannot regularly expect water to freeze outside when provided with no stimulus other than the fact that it's too #@% cold out there, you should not have a hockey team in your city either. Hockey?  No thanks.

But there is that appeal of three periods.  At least this season, I vote that we eliminating the 3rd quarter.  We'd hardly miss it.  We'd be a more competitive team. "Per 36" stats would make a whole lot more sense. We wouldn't have to fume about Monta being sent out there for 45 minutes in order to run himself down in yet another futile effort. And we'd all get home a bit earlier. 

Last night, it wouldn't have changed the outcome.  Toss out any single quarter and the Warriors still get beat, but at least give the idea a bit of thought.

Star-divide

Is there really that much to say about this one?  Larry Brown appeared to be taunting us, running Jax out there for 45 minutes, even after the contest was long decided.

Jackson himself didn't look fazed in the slightest by the chorus of boos.  A few fans came down to give him handshakes and hugs before the contest.  Two kids about four rows back are probably still tugging at opposite ends of the head band he tossed to them after the game.  He was all smiles, showing the personality that made him charm most of the Warrior faithful for most of the time he was here. 

No, I don't want him back.  Long term, he'll decline as his contract grows, and if the upside is a mediocre team hovering around .500 who may sneak into the final playoff spot but show no hope in adding talent to get better either through the draft, free agency or trade, that's not something to envy.  But with a choice of watching Anthony Tolliver or Cartier Martin or watching Stephen Jackson play, it's not a contest *and I was never a fan of Jack's game*.

Monta shot often, but didn't connect often enough.  Curry quietly had a very nice game, but "quiet" extends to far, far too much of the contest.  Out-rebounded, out-defended, it's no wonder that most of the fans were just plain out of the building before half of the 4th quarter was over.  You'd think that the Warriors were putting up BART schedules on the jumbotrons or something, and 35% of the fans wanted to make sure they didn't accidentally miss that next direct train to Millbrae and wind up having to stand on the platform for 8 or 9 minutes. 

If only you could still buy beer once the exodus was on. The lines would be mercifully short.

Up close and in person, it's strange to think that Gerald Wallace was long the subject of trade rumors that seemed almost realistic, like there was an actual possibility he could have been a Warrior for a reasonable price.  Wallace has transformed into the modern super-Rodman. He's a magnet for rebounds and a blanket defender who can neutralize 2s, 3s and 4s, but he's much more of a threat on the offensive end with a not spectacular, but still rather reasonable shooting touch and an explosion towards the hoop that puts him at the line for easy points.  Imagine if Maggette was 50% better on the glass and 100% better blanketing his man.  Just imagine...

Ray Felton also seemed like a reasonable target. Not as dominant as Wallace. Maybe not even an upgrade over Curry (or more to the point, what Curry could be), but for a guy who it looked like Charlotte might just let walk, he's transformed himself into a respectable point guard.  A source of envy?  Hardly, until you realize that we're handing 30-40 minutes a night to guys who would otherwise be competing for spots on the Austin Toros. Yes, longing for a ridiculously average player.  That's what it's come to.

What is to blame for this lousy product?

Possibility #1:  The team is made up of a bunch of quitters.  If they only played hard we'd be right back in it!

Possibility #2:  The team is made up of a bunch of marginal talents, with question marks surrounding their top talents (is he able to play PG? Will he ever develop an offensive move to go with the rebounding?  Are we there yet?) and a supporting cast of D-leaguers who, due to a combination of poor planning and devastatingly bad injury luck, have been pressed into actual service. 

Possibility #3:  There is still a curse.  Our sacrifices to the overlords have not been received kindly and we are being punished for our failure to appease the supernatural.

I'm going with 2 *AND* 3.  It doesn't look like the players have quit.  It hardly seems like a valiant effort would really do that much to change things. Well, at least not until we get the contest down to three periods.  Then maybe we can expect miracles?

The Warriors are about as uninteresting as a team can be at this point.  Remember how bad it was during the Dave Cowens/Garry St. Jean/Brian Winters stretch?  I see no appreciable difference.  Neither did any of the other 17,849 folk in the seats, a minor miracle of attendance for a meaningless contest on a wet and overcast Friday night.

Warrior Wonder?:  Chris Hunter for a staggering two assists in as many minutes for and a +5 plus-minus for the game!  If only Nellie had him in from the beginning, we'd have won that one by ~120!

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Excellent recap,

I am going to go with possibility 2, but not rule out possibility 1 or 3. Mismanagement has been a constant in Cohan’s tenure and having a horrific roster is nothing new in these parts.
Possibility #1
The constant losing and the losing culture is definelty driving away even some of the most die hard fans, and the ones like me who who hang around, are falling into a lethargic state when thinking about this team. Why wouldnt that culture and attitude start hitting the players and coaches (there is some credibility that Nelson has already checked out and is planning the new rennovations to the house in Maui and just grining it out for the cash and the record at this point) alike?
Possibility #3
I generally assume that Cohan and Rowell would like to win. I am sure money is the main goal, but I am assuming that they would appreciate winning as well. To make the playoffs once in 16 years and to put forth terriable team after terriable team while actually trying doesnt seem possible. I generally dont believe in curses and what not, but really is there a more logical answer to the injuries and yearly unavoidable fate for this team.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Jan 30, 2010 11:17 AM PST reply actions  

Gerald Wallace, Ray Felton, and Nazr Mohhamed are the reasons the Bobcats are mediocrely good this year. The Stephen Jackson trade made them better in terms of him replacing a worse player in Raja Bell and adding a volume scorer, on a team of players reluctant to shoot often.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 11:28 AM PST reply actions  

I'm not sure I understand

Are you saying that Mohammed is something that helps that team or saying that Wallace is something hurting the team? I’m just confused by seeing Wallace and Mohammed in the same sentence.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 30, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m saying Felton, Wallace, and Mohammed are the reasons this team has been good this year. Stephen Jackson not so much.
And Mohammed is having a great season, so yes he is helping that team alot.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d hate to see Mohammed having a bad season..

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 30, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

do you not remember when jack was suspended at the beginning of the yar we were like 0-6or .. when he came back we won 8 of the next 9 games. im sure it had nothing to do with jack as much as it did with bdiddy n ellis n andris. Jacks a winner, he changes the mindset of his teammates to believe, theres much more to his game then what he may do or not do on the court. Id put Jackson as the the number 2 reason for the “We Believe” playoff run behind baron. if we had just traded for only harrington n not jackson i doubt we woulda came close to the playoffs.

by ToeSocks on Jan 30, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, the problem with that argument is that when we were 0-6, we played 5 playoff teams and that we played them all very close ( besides the home opener) while Monta was in a shooting funk. It had less to do with Jack being out and more of the competition being excellent, and Monta being off his game.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Right

Jackson has improved the Bobcats tremendously because it means he replaces a much worse player handling the ball in Boris Diaw. Diaw is a role player not a player that can dominate a ball game by his dribbling, ability to shoot the three, or post up. Jackson does all three better than that.

I doubt Larry Brown wanted to see Raja Bell go either, but Bell was not going to be playing anyways and he’s a free agent at the end of the season. I’ll give Bell credit for playing one game as a Warrior while injured.

Other then that the trade was made because the Bobcats got rid of a horrendous player in Vladimir Radmanovich that is why the trade was made. It wasn’t to get rid of Bell.

by Rocky63215 on Jan 30, 2010 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not trying to get a personal, but it seems like you trash various players without any facts backing you up.

he replaces a much worse player handling the ball in Boris Diaw

Really. In your mind, Stephen Jackson the passer and shooter> Diaw the playmaker and shooter.
Well, I hope this doesn’t shock you but lets compare the two shall we.
Per 36
2005-06
Diaw:
13.6 PPG on 53% shooting.
7 RPG
6.5 APG with only 2.4 T/O
Jackson:
16.4 PPG on 41% shooting
4 RPG
2.8 APG on 2.5 T/O
2006-07
Diaw:
11.3 PPG on 54% from field and 33% from 3
5 RPG
5.6 APG on 2.4 T/O
Jackson:
17 PPG on 43% from the field and 32% from 3
3 RPG
4.2APG on 2.7 T/O
2007-08
Diaw:
11.3 PPG on 47% from field and 31% from 3
6 RPG
5 APG on 2.4 T/O
Jackson:
18.5 PPG on 40% and 36% from 3
4 RPG
3.8 APG on 2.5 T/O
2008-09
Diaw:
14 PPG on 51% and 41% from 3
6 RPG
4.4 APG on 2.8 T/o
Jackson:
18.8 PPG on 41% and 34% from 3
4.7 rPg
5.9 APG with 3.5 T/O
2009-10
Diaw:
11 PPG on 46% shooting and 33% from 3
5 RPG
4 APG with 2.4 T/o
Jackson:
19 PPG on 43% shooting and 31% from 3
4.4 RPG
3.5 APG on 2.9 T/O

In the last 5 seasons, Jackson has been a better passer in one of those seasons(barely) and a better 3 point shooter in 2 of those. Not to mention Diaw was a much better passer in 4 of those seasons, so the “facts” behind
Diaw is a role player not a player that can dominate a ball game by his dribbling, ability to shoot the three, or post up. Jackson does all three better than that.
are non-existent, like many of your quibbles, like
Reggie Theus not showing up for work
, and that
Tayshaun Prince is a terrible offensive player.

So, i don’t know, should i respond to all of your comments like that or should i suggest http://www.basketball-reference.com

.
I’ll do the latter. That site really helped me gain a lot of basketball knowledge, and if you are attempting to become a journalist, Rock-ster, it might be helpful to have all those stats at your disposal to either: (A)Back up your points with stats or (B) Have more knowledge at your disposal. Good Luck to you Rocky with your Sport Journalism Degree, and that you will start using the site many of us basketball nerdzz love.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

less stats, more EYEBALLS

by RowellMustGo on Feb 1, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Great recap, but you’re giving Nellie more of a free pass than he merits… our horrible performances in third quarters and horrible rebounding showings aren’t accidents. It wasn’t a curse that saw fit to give more court time to Vlad and Devean than to Beans and Turiaf.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 30, 2010 11:37 AM PST reply actions  

Well, playing Turiaf over Vlad would make no difference.

Vlad 7.1 RPG per 36
Turiaf 7.4 RPG per 36

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Not just talking about rebounding… I’d rather see Ronny out there, sloppy as he’s been, than Vlad.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Jan 30, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

But Turiaf was out there

In the 1st half, Turiaf subbed for Biedrins and was on the floor until late into the 2nd qtr when George was subbed in and everyone went small. In the 2nd half, Turiaf was also on the floor after Biedrins was subbed out until partway through the 4th qtr, when the game was already out of hand.

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 30, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions  

IQ post count update

20K – 6 and counting…

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 31, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I like seeing Vlad out there over Ronny

Ronny doesn’t do anything in my book. Tolliver too. Not D George though.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that came across wrong. What i was trying to say is Turiaf doesn’t do anything. D george doesn’t either. I’d rather see Tolliver/Vlad over those two. Looking back i made it sound like i liked D George.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh ok

no problem

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Per 36 minute stats are meaningless

Besides the fact that none of those stats measure the heart that Turiaf plays with, the ability to block shots by the way what’s the block shot rate for each one of those players? Turiaf makes plays, Radmanovich does not.

by Rocky63215 on Jan 30, 2010 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Reading a lot of the stuff posted around here

You could have fooled me.

Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.

by the guy on Jan 30, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Possibility #4

It’s not an accident the Warriors fail every year.

Evidence: Hire Mullin as GM. A move that would seem doomed to failure. Unexpectedly he puts together a team that is good enough to reach the playoffs for the first time in 16 years. Can’t have that now… Better run him out the door ASAP.

Possibility #5

The fan base is so docile it allows ownership to continuously do things like; running the only winning GM in 16 years out of town, giving Jack huge contract and then trading him for peanuts, letting Nellie keep running out lineups that seem to be planned via astrology (only thing that possibly makes sense).

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Jan 30, 2010 11:51 AM PST reply actions  

Um, what?

You’re right, the fans are totally responsible for who is hired or fired as GM, who is given what types of contracts, and what lineups Nelson trots out. That’s entirely within the fan base’s control. The Warriors are the only fan-run team in the league, apparently.

Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.

by the guy on Jan 30, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

it’s no wonder that most of the fans were just plain out of the building before half of the 4th quarter was over.

I must admit, with a little more than six minutes left in the fourth I caught myself yawning for the fifth time in as many minutes, and I leaned over to my wife to tell her how tired I was. I was almost shocked to hear myself answer “yes” when she asked me if I wanted to leave early. I’ve never left a game early. It drives me crazy when people bail in the middle of the fourth. But there I was, trying to find my car in the parking lot while there was still an NBA game going on in the Arena… this season has done some strange things to me.

BTW, great recap Jae.

"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."

by olympicmike on Jan 30, 2010 12:43 PM PST reply actions  

Is't me or

Ellis body language last night is like is it over yet? When will all star weekend gonna start or when will the season ends

Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........

by mykelala01 on Jan 30, 2010 1:43 PM PST reply actions  

He's mad because he didn't go to the All-Star game...

you can tell after Thursday.

by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Jan 30, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

No, its not you

Ellis has clearly given up on playing with any passion this season. He is just trying to get his numbers. Pretty sad for the “face of the franchise” to have that attitude.

by randolphforpresident on Jan 30, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Any proof of this?

Or are you just saying this? When things aren’t going right everyone starts pointing fingers on one person.

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Jan 30, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Proof?

How are you going to definitively prove something like that? I don’t have proof but there is plenty of evidence: defiant body language, stays away from team huddles, turning his head away when the coaches are giving the team instructions, never helping his teammates up from the floor. Not to mention his interviews. Watch him talk with Matt Steinmetz yesterday before the game and tell me if you think that sounds like a guy who wants to be a part of this team.

by randolphforpresident on Jan 31, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Personally I was not a big fan of the anthem

The guy added nothing for me, no vocal ability whatsoever. I like my anthem to be as pithy as possible. The violin guy that does it sometimes is pretty good, definitely my favorite at the Oracle.

by LakerFan24 on Jan 30, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Really?

Is that why Ellis was getting his teammates involved early in the first quarter? Ellis hasn’t lost his passion, but I don’t blame him if he’s upset that the fact that his teammates cannot hit a jumper, cannot make a defensive stop, don’t hustle, etc….

by Rocky63215 on Jan 30, 2010 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually hope he does

The best thing that can happen to this organization is if we trade Ellis, Maggette and Biedrins for Tmac and Landry. We can’t win with these guys in the team, we might as well start rebuilding from scratch. Tmac will become a free agent and move on to a competing team. We would have more then 30 mill in cap space freed up from Claxton, Bell, Tmac expiring contract. We can build a new team while having cap space, maybe go after Boozer or Joe Johnson (if he is not resigned), maybe we end up with a guy like Camby for 5 mill a year to play with Landry. Sign a guy like Rudy Gay for and a bring back a defensive specialist in Raja Bell. Money talks, we can pick and choose who we want and how much we want them for. At least, we know we starting something new rather then waiting for something that’s not there. I believe we need change.

Waaaarriors

by puffylove on Jan 30, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

riley rowell is that you?

    can’t recognize a good joke when you read it?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 30, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

-1

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Jan 30, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions  

puffy – Yeah I tend to agree with you. All this talk about Ellis Maggette Biedrins like they’re meaningful to winning. I’m sorry but when a team is third worst in the NBA, how much further from “starting over” are they really? Even if we traded for Tmac, started over, brought in a REAL STAR via free agency….the worst we’d do is fall back 2 spots as worst team in the league.

by RowellMustGo on Feb 1, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

If you cannot regularly expect water to freeze outside when provided with no stimulus other than the fact that it’s too #@% cold out there, you should not have a hockey team in your city either. Hockey?

Stupidest thing I’ve ever read. So if your hardwood floor does not grow naturally in a field you cant play BB? Can people not migrate? Weak.

I know, soccer. Played in a natural field with little technology, that’s the ticket.

But I do got to admit I have pretty much tuned the Warriors out this year, it used to be when they sucked you could at least look for something promising for the future and I just don’t see that this year, so I will go back and root for a bay area team that has it’s head on straight in the Sharks and hope for my favorite team to be able to pull it’s head out of its back side.

And hey, the Giants aren’t looking to bad so far so there’s always that.

"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."

Frank Zappa

by qin on Jan 30, 2010 4:34 PM PST reply actions  

You play on hardwood regularly?

I usually just play in the drive way or at a nearby school.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 30, 2010 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So if your hardwood floor does not grow naturally in a field you cant play BB

my hardwood floor came from home depot, how the heck would I know where it grew?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 30, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Some other notes on the game: one of the more interesting renditions of the Star Spangled Banner I’d heard in a while, a duet with harmony. It was choppy in a few places, but utterly more satisfying than your basic wannabe who thinks that adding tremolo to you voice on the long notes means you’re a better singer, or who believes that the longer you hold “free”, the better. Been there. Heard that.

Also: is anyone else bothered by the banners hung up for players who haven’t so much as suited up in a game, and those who have, but still weren’t ever expected to be more than the non-entities they are? “Brandan’s Brigade”? “Devean’s Dynasty?” When are we getting “Cartier’s Collection of Guys Sitting Upstairs?”

by jae on Jan 30, 2010 5:39 PM PST reply actions  

Personally I wasn't a big fan of the anthem

The guy added nothing for me, no vocal ability whatsoever. I like my anthem to be as pithy as possible. The violin guy that does it sometimes is pretty good, definitely my favorite at the Oracle.

by LakerFan24 on Jan 30, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you

Double post these? anyway violin guy is magnificent.

Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........

by mykelala01 on Jan 31, 2010 2:26 AM PST up reply actions  

more satisfying than your basic wannabe who thinks that adding tremolo to you voice on the long notes means you’re a better singer

Ah, yes. there’s a fad that needed to be left at the curb a long time ago. Different renditions are cool if there creative and still true to the song but I swear most of the time I want to yell “buy a metronome”.

"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."

Frank Zappa

by qin on Jan 30, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Also: is anyone else bothered by the banners hung up for players who haven’t so much as suited up in a game, and those who have, but still weren’t ever expected to be more than the non-entities they are?

Aren’t those up there because they pay for some kids to come to the game or whatever? If that’s the case, I see no reason to complain.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 30, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

but Brandan Wright isn’t a bad player. I’m just confused by the Devean George thing.

Euro Players Rock! Go Warriors!

by monta.da.boss on Jan 30, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Just dug this up:
For the 2009-10 season, has purchased 25 tickets to every home game and donated those tickets to various children’s groups, with the groups sitting in his special "Devean’s Dynasty" section

Source: NBA.com, Devean George’s bio

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 31, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

What’s wrong with players buying a section of seats for kids?

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Jan 30, 2010 11:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Quote from Yahoo's Court Report on the game

“Anthony Tolliver was back in the starting lineup Friday and delivered exactly the kind of line (27 minutes, 13 points, 1 three, 6 boards, 1 steal, 1 block) that could make him a sneaky-good roster add moving forward. Of course, the Warriors were beaten handily by the Bobcats in the contest (121-110) and Don Nelson’s opinion of Vladimir Radmanovic seems to change by the day. As it stands, Tolliver is a good “system” fit is the team’s best option at power forward, a move that would allow Corey Maggette to continue his high-level production at small forward, his “natural” position."

by NikkiKeenz on Jan 30, 2010 11:55 PM PST reply actions  

No offense but...

whoever goes to warrior game is an idiot in my opinion. why do you keep supporting Cohan? anyone? anyone? like cyber said, “docile” is a very accurate way to describe warrior fans.

by RowellMustGo on Feb 1, 2010 11:24 AM PST reply actions  

what you people seem to fail to understand is…this franchise will not change its ways until Cohan is out. bad decision after bad decision will continue to occur until they day Cohan leaves. how do I know this? because this team HAD success just 2 short yrs ago and they pushed just about every1 out who was associated with it. preventable moves too! I will say it again, if you still go to Warrior games and then go complain about the teams fortunes, you my friend are an IDIOT.

by RowellMustGo on Feb 1, 2010 11:29 AM PST reply actions  

if you still go to Warrior games and then go complain about the teams fortunes, you my friend are an IDIOT.

I fail to see how this follows. Your impressive use of all caps notwithstanding, I suspect there are other possibilities.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 1, 2010 12:09 PM PST up reply actions  

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