RECAP: Warriors 122, Nuggets 123 - Seriously...?
by Hash on Jan 6, 2010 10:04 AM PST
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I've tried to be the bigger person more often than not. Most of the time in situations like this I'll address our injustices with the caveat that we as a team shouldn't have allowed us to be in the situation to begin with. And by the end of this recap, I'll likely end up doing the same. But last night... man... That was a tough pill to swallow. I've watched (last night and this morning) the comments ensue from the GSoM community about whether or not a foul was actually committed. For once, I'm going to step out of impartial mode and actually offer out my opinion on the matter.
Whether Monta's arms were straight up or not, whether he made some minor body contact or not, if a ref is going to call a foul in the final .4 seconds of the game, ESPECIALLY one that determines the outcome of the game; it had better be an obvious hack. The mere fact that we all had to watch the replay 50 times from 50 different angles to see if contact was made means that call was questionable at best.
Am I going to write an entire article on the last few seconds of last night's game? As tempted as I am to do so, no, no I'm not. But, deficiencies in our play aside, I do feel like we earned that win. And that's all I'll say about that.
*sigh*
Blog Buddy: Denver Stiffs
Hit the Jump to step away from the short term and look at the long term. Neither view looks all that pretty...
"You lose at the buzzer, it's tough," he said. "Bad teams just don't get breaks. Let's face it, you just don't get breaks. That was our game. We played our hearts out, and I can't ask any more than what my team gave me."
- Don Nelson (after last night's game)
A loss like this is especially tough to swallow with some of the performances we saw last night. Although Monta's 32 came off of a lot of shooting, few can argue with his late game heroics. Stephen Curry was in excellent for last night, ending up with 26 points, 5 boards and 6 dimes, and Mr. Hot or Cold Maggette ended up very much on the side of hot with a season-high 35 points. Those are three very potent weapons to be firing at the same time, and against a Chauncy-less Nuggets team, it should have been enough.
But behind every last second loss lies a web of mistakes. Despite our fury on that call in the final seconds, last nights game very much resembles a mushroom. Crowining above the soil for all to see was a trio of poor calls in the final quarter. Timeout miscues and questionable foul calls will forever serve as the easily viewed reason for this loss. Underneath the earth, however, an intricate web of general small ball woes, most notably offering the Nuggets a wealth of 2nd chances that allowed them to get within striking distance.
GSoM longtime friend and contributer Adam Lauridsen may have put it best:
The Warriors put the refs in a position to influence the game by giving the Nuggets second chance points, open access to the glass, and the gift of totally unnecessary contact on Smith’s last-second fling from half-court. The refs did the Warriors no favors — and the Ws would have won but for any of the questionable calls — but blaming the refs for the team’s failure to secure the win is the easy way out. It’s another excuse, and another obstacle to any lasting improvement.
What else is there to write really? There's a staggering amount of truth here. We can point to the fact that our centers weren't in top form; we can point to the fact that we may never win the rebound war when we really need to, but the fact of the matter is right now we just don't have the tools to get it done. A good team is once that can adjust to the deficiencies of the squad. We're a team that seemingly cannot win a game unless every single thing goes right. Even with three of our starters in (arguably) top form, we still find ourselves in a last second situation against a debilitated team?
I hate to sound so negative in the wake of some of the good individual performances that we saw last night. But know that the frustration from 1000 blown calls like the one we saw last night is minimal in comparison to the frustration from lack of progress.
Unfortunately right now we have to feel both.
This is a tough one. Maggs, Curry, and Ellis can all make solid cases for why they should be taking this one down. But I am going to give this one to Mags in the wake of his season high scoring. Unfortunately, he tends to be more cold than hot, but hopefully last night's performance will help motivate him to play towards his true potential.
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Unfortunately, he tends to be more cold than hot, but hopefully last night’s performance will help motivate him to play towards his true potential.
Umm…he’s shooting 53.9% from the floor and 81.3% from the FT line. How does he tend to be more cold than hot?
by boomtho on Jan 6, 2010 10:28 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
A web of mistakes is correct
Though the win should have been ours, there are plenty of areas of failure that still need work, even in a win. Just off the top of my head, the lack of defense letting one Nugget player a clear lane to the hoop, the late careless turnover on the pass by Monta (though at least he admitted to it), and another turnover that I can’t recall.
It doesn’t mean the refs get a free pass either. Maggette not getting the timeout call, Nuggets do get the immediate timeout call, and Monta getting called for a foul on the swipe where none existed. Yes, Monta did undercut Smith with the body, but when I watched the angle from the Denver broadcast that included the ref, the ref reacted to the swipe, not the subsequent body contact.
Well, Nellie wanted to see how tough these guys are. This is a true test of the mind. The Warriors have to show that they can come back and keep playing hard and getting better, despite getting robbed.
also
The body contact was initiated by JR trying to flail his body to get the body contact…IE offensive foul or no call.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Yes, Monta did undercut Smith with the body
So….Monta fouled Smith….and what are you complaining about?
The body contact was initiated by JR trying to flail his body to get the body contact…IE offensive foul or no call.
That’s not how the rule works. The defensive player has a right to his position – if the offensive player initiates contact with a defensive player who has position established, yes, it’s an offensive foul. This is why players are taught they need to have their hands straight up on defense. The defensive player must go straight up (or backwards, with both their body and arms) to have established position. Monta is quite clearly not doing so – in fact, he’s jumping forward and swinging his arm forward. Given that, it does not matter who “initiates contact” – if there IS contact, it IS a foul on the defense. It is that clear cut of a case.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
You don't call that
If Smith was 10 feet closer to the hoop, you do.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 6, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt it
refs usually don’t signal the 3 until after the shot is launched as a shot.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 6, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
well
only way to find out is to see if the hand was in a fist or was straight. if it was a fist it was a foul call. If it was straight it was a 3.
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Jan 6, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Reading the stuff posted on Denver Stiffs
Is the most infuriating thing ever. By listening to them you’d swear the Dubs got every call all night and it was a clear-cut, no doubt, should be called every time foul on Ellis for “displacing the shooter.” They even talk about how smart it was for Karl to call a timeout with 1.4 seconds left.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
That doesn’t tell you anything? Like maybe every fan’s perception is the ref is helping the other team, because we’re biased as fans (and even as observers since people are basically incapable of objectively observing something accurately)? The truth is probably in the middle – meaning the game was reffed a lot closer to evenly than you perceive….
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
I suspect that all fans always feel that their team gets shafted on the calls 99% of the time. It’s real easy to remember the bad calls that went against you but forget about the bad calls that go in your favor. Perception and reality probably do not mesh.
Wait, what is this “bias” thing you’re talking about? I’ve never heard of it. I thought everything we see is totally unaffected by our preconceptions and prior experiences and loyalties. Come on, guys. I’m totally aware of this phenomenon. It’s why eyewitness testimony is unreliable. Two people can see the same event take place and see two entirely different things happen. I’m just surprised that fans of a team like Denver, who had some pretty harsh indictments of the officials in the playoffs last year, seem incapable of putting themselves in our shoes, and realizing how infuriating it would be to have that call made at that point in the game.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
but forget about the bad calls that go in your favor
And even in this case, the fan probably agrees with the bad call that went against them most of the time….
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
Yo, I notice just about every bad call that goes in the Warriors favor
And I celebrate it. Usually with a “Take that conspiracy theorists!”
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
And geez
You know, I read a comment somewhere that this place was becoming a lot less fun. I just wanted to vent a little frustration, and two of the regulars here jump all over it like I’m an idiot and can’t understand a simple thing like bias. Ok, thanks guys. What I thought I saw didn’t actually happen that way. Really glad to come on here to get reasons to discount my opinion. I thought on a Warriors board they might actually support my frustration. Go figure.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
Welcome...
to the board that responds with condescension to emotional fan posts. You will soon realize that you must post lengthy dissertation-like pieces with myriad statistical analysis to back up your points or they will be dismissed as naive and childish. Remember – arguing for arguments sake is a sacred practice around these parts.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
by triplesix on Jan 6, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I know, why try to promote intelligent, thought out discussion when we can all just yell the first thing we think about….
(My own preference is you use the game thread for that kind of thing, especially since I don’t participate in those threads, but they really do seem like a great forum for the kind of emotional first thought reaction you want to express, at least to me….)
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
If your speaking to me....
please remember I try not participate in the aforementioned “arguing for arguments sake” – but GSOM thanks you for your promotion of cogent discussions on this board. I usually resort to sarcasm as a default to senseless typing to try and convince strangers of my point and I usually don’t yell while I type (again not sure if that was directed at me).
My own preference is you use the game thread for that kind of thing, especially since I don’t participate in those threads,
This was my favorite part of your post and I have to say – you really hurt my feelings with it. That might be too emotional for you… but it was my first thought reaction.
Please refrain from these personal/condescending posts – (they are not intelligent or thought out…at least to me…)
:)
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
None of anything I said was meant towards at anyone in particular. As for my point about game threads, all I’m trying to say is they seem like a great place for a first thought/reactionary comment…..hmmm, maybe you’re counting this in with the game threads. Fair enough.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know why either...
I just thought I would extend a welcoming introduction this here blogosphere.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
I just wanted to vent a little frustration, and two of the regulars here jump all over it like I’m an idiot and can’t understand a simple thing like bias.
You are confusing “commenting on what you said” with “jumping all over it like you’re an idiot”. If you believe that responding to a comment about how Denver fans seem to think that all calls seemed to go against them in any way other than jumping on your vent-fest bandwagon as “jumping all over you”, I cannot offer you any advice. My comment wasn’t at all critical of what you said. It was a comment in general. Did you need to see only those comments that affirmed your position and nothing more? If you’re here for self affirmation, you’re probably in the wrong place.
In retrospect
There were a lot of things wrong with my original post, as well the other you referenced. I completely misunderstood your comment in particular, and it really should have had nothing to do with my later outburst. For that I apologize. As far as self-affirmation, that wasn’t it. I didn’t word my original post the way I intended to, so it didn’t elicit the responses I expected. That was my fault, and I blamed the reaction. So, sorry again.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
Your apology offends me
You can’t win.
Love SBNation…. see you all next time the Nugs clash the Warriors.
I'm offended...
that you’re offended.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
In that photo, there is .6 on the clock
the refs said the foul was committed at .4 on review of the replay. That photo was .2 before JR was practically murdered by Ellis (this last sentence is for those of you who bag on DenverStiffs commenters).
Come on now, “practically murdered” is just a little bit of an exaggeration, no? Even leaving aside how ridiculous comparing anything that happens in an NBA game to murder, can’t we at least save such strong phrases for hard fouls, not just regular fouls…?
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
wtf?
How does he go from not touching him at .6 to murdering him at .4?! Your an absolute moron, get out of here. It was a ridiculous foul call, ridiculous to let them get a timeout, and ridiculous that maggette couldn’t get a timeout. Screw every one of you that say it was our fault that we lost, because that is a false statement. The refs are the reason we lost!
by Mrpolo on Jan 6, 2010 1:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I was talking about the guy above you, not you
by Mrpolo on Jan 6, 2010 1:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I figured that much out, I just think you’re a little overboard with your last two sentences (and calling someone a moron in general is probably unnecessary).
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well I just think the way those last 15 or so seconds played out its hard not to blame the refs.
by Mrpolo on Jan 6, 2010 1:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well, I’m not trying to suppress your feelings that they didn’t make good calls over those last 15 seconds, don’t get me wrong. Just you don’t have to give me a “screw you” for some disagreement, and even given your opinion that they made poor calls, you still can’t put the entire loss on the refs. If Monta didn’t challenge Smith the way he did, they couldn’t have called a foul and we would have won….so yeah, clearly the refs are just one of many factors that could have changed the outcome.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
well...
True, and idk it just seems like there is no neutral opinion. Either you think we got screwed and are a warriors fan, or you have no problem with the call and you don’t like the warriors…I am what you would call a “ride or die” warriors fan, meaning, no matter what happens I stick up for my warriors and I am loyal to them. That’s just the way I am. Sorry
by Mrpolo on Jan 6, 2010 2:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wasn't necessarily bagging
Just most of what I read over there stated that it was a clear foul, when it was anything but.
Don't worry about me Thurgood, I'll be fine. The robbery is what's important now.
Sure looked like a foul to me….and of course they’re going to be more likely to think it was a foul. Fans almost always choose the option that favors their own team.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
I'd be po'd if the shoe was on the other foot...
… not because there was not a foul, but because of the unwritten rule that a foul has to be a total hack if committed in the final seconds for it to be called. Despite our different rooting interests, the real problem is the state of NBA refereeing getting to a point where a team’s fans can feel legitimately upset because a rule is actually enforced over an unwritten rule.
Is there really an unwritten rule that a foul has to be a total hack, though? I think that may be a fan created myth as much as anything. Personally, my opinion is they should loosen up the whistle a bit at the end (avoid tickytacky stuff you might call earlier to control the game), and avoid bailing a guy out who’s just throwing something up hoping to get fouled…but if the guy has a real look at the basket and his shot is affected by something the ref sees as a foul, it has to be called. Otherwise it just isn’t fair.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
Do you think JR's shot was a "legitimate look"?
If anyone can make an off-balance 40 foot shot, it would be JR Smith.
I’d call pretty much any decent outside shooter who can see the rim and has their shoulders square to it from inside half court a “legitimate look”. These guys are really good. They can, and do, hit shots like that. It wasn’t a high percentage shot of course, but one he is capable of hitting, and you can’t just let the defensive player alter his shot by fouling him…
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Curious, where does the name “Denver Stiffs” come from? Seems really random and not related to the Nuggets at all, but given I don’t know much about the Nuggets, maybe I’m missing something? Or maybe you guys need a better blog name…
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
In the mid-80s
the Nuggets made it to the Western Conference finals against the Lakers and Coach Doug Moe described the team as a group of “stiffs”.
I can look at this and be happy...
“If it wasn’t for Curry hitting the shots he hit and playing the way he played, we probably wouldn’t have had a chance to win tonight,” Ellis said. “He was awesome at both ends.”
Yeah...
talking about toughness (in the mental sense) he definitely showed it last night with clutch shots and passes. None of the (what have become typical) 4th quarter head-scratching turnovers. He seemed REALLY focused.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
I don't
think it’s been a lack of playing time for Curry.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
But what i’m saying is, this is what you do for a rookie in some cases… Let em play and figure it out, if they mess up, they’ll learn from it
I understand...
but perhaps the real difference maker was the practice session focused on “toughness” that elicited change in his game – not playing time.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Despite the fact that a foul should not have been called
Monta had no business winding up and swinging at that ball. Had he done almost anything else, I don’t think the ref would have called anything. A bad call, but still a dumb move by Mona.
Monta also had no business jumping sideway/behind Smith, from that distance, to try to block it. That’s just inviting contact. If you’re going to contest, jump in front of him and put your hand in his face, but far enough in front that you can’t make contact. Stupid play, and deserving of a foul. If you bump a guy, it’s a foul, and if you foul a guy who’s trying to hit a game winner, the refs should call it. Just because it’s the end of the game doesn’t mean you should just let the defensive player alter a shot in ways that are against the rules.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
well
according to how the denver broadcast showed it that “foul” was called for a hip check
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Jan 6, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
Monta can't get a break here!
First he is bashed for not playing defense, then he tries to save the game with a defensive play, blocking or disrupting JR’s shot, IF a foul happened it was a weak one, and nine times out of ten (or ten out of ten if your name is Kobe) the ref isn’t calling a touch foul with the game on the line!
The call was just wrong all the way around – don’t blame Monta for trying to step up at the end of the game. Even JR was surprised a foul was called!
then he tries to save the game with a bad defensive play
That wasn’t a good play by Monta. There are better ways to contest than what he did. He was inviting a foul call. That also wasn’t a touch foul – there was enough contact to actually alter Smith’s shot in a meaningful way. Go outside and try shooting a shot while someone bumps your lower body. It makes the shot just a little (italics to emphasize sarcasm) more difficult.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
LOVE ALL THE COMMENTS...
But I still think we got robbed. I think that a foul call that could decide the game shouldn’t be questionable. That foul call on Monta was extremely questionable. Monta made JR alter his shot, but not because of the all so obvious contact, but because he swiped at the ball. Did they call him for that, thinking he made contact or was it after JR released the ball? Either way, we were up and we had that game if not for the call.
On a side note…shouldn’t Karl have gotten a technical foul for being on the court during game play? I didn’t notice that until the pic above. I’m sure they wouldn’t, but if that’s a rule, then they should enforce it right? I think I’m just asking for too much!
NBA Refs suck w/ all of their freedom to bend the rules! Like waiting to call a blatant foul on an offensive player until the shot goes in or not. If it does, sometimes there’s no call, and if it doesn’t, there’s a call. TOTAL BS!!!
Geeez Louf*ckingweeez!!!
See, I call it a foul because it’s not even questionable to me. Monta bumped Smith’s lower body, and doing so makes the shot significantly more difficult, and therefore a foul has to be called. Everything else is irrelevant. If I couldn’t tell if Monta bumped Smith, I’d be inclined to agree to you, but from the replay I saw, it looked pretty clear to me that he did.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Really? Where did you see that replay?
I’ve yet to see any video or picture that conclusively shows Monta making any contact.
It was a bad call. The least bad of the three officiating mistakes in those last 3 seconds but still a bad call.
by WheresMyChippy on Jan 6, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve yet to see any video or picture that conclusively shows Monta making any contact.
It’s not very obvious, but I think he did graze JR’s backside. But I think when he did, it was after JR shot the ball, and even more so, after time had expired.
Crazy how much time we’ve all spent arguing, commenting, denying a play that only took less than one second! Guess most of us have nothing better to do…at work! =P
Geeez Louf*ckingweeez!!!
by scottiepimppen on Jan 6, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve only seen the highlights up at NBA.com. Looks like a pretty clear bump to me, based on that.
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
STILL A BIT IFFY THOUGH
I mean, we’ve all seen more blatant contact made to a shooter and no foul gets called, or even vice versa. My point really is that this was the last shot of the game and making a call at this junction could end up costing the game for a team, whereas, making one during the course of a game wouldn’t.
i agree Monta did bump, graze or whatever you want to call it, JR’s behind, but like I stated, he altered his shot (release or whatever) because Monta took a swipe at the ball in the air, not because of the ensuing contact after. Wouldn’t that be after the play and even after time had expired, making the call too late? At least that’s what I observed and we’re all inclined to our own views and opinions.
Geeez Louf*ckingweeez!!!
by scottiepimppen on Jan 6, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
I can’t comment on the time issue, as the NBA.com replay I looked at wouldn’t give me a good break down of that. Also, both Monta’s swipe and Maggette’s D did alter the shot, but that’s not the question for me. Even if those didn’t happen, it looked to me like Monta bumped Smith hard enough to make the shot significantly more difficult. So I’m not really commenting on how Smith changed his release point as much as commenting on how hard Monta bumped him – it was hard enough to really affect the shot. At least that’s what I saw. If you don’t think he bumped him hard enough to change things, then we simply have different opinions…
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
Horrible officiating in the last 2 minutes
but the defenders still shouldn’t have been that close. If JR Smith would have made that hailmary shot from 40 feet, then Dever deserved to win that game.
Still, it’s only one game. There’s a game tonight, so here’s to another beatdown of the t’wolves. :D
If JR Smith had made that shot
They still didn’t deserve to win because Denver should never have been given the timeout they got the second Smiths fingertips touched the ball on that jump ball play. There shouldn’t have been a jump ball because the Warriors should have had a timeout.
The Warriors EARNED a win.
Denver EARNED a loss.
The Officials didn’t like that.
by WheresMyChippy on Jan 6, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
This game made me hate NBA referrees even more.
I don’t believe the game is rigged, I just think they are TERRIBLE at their jobs.
by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Jan 6, 2010 12:57 PM PST reply actions
About ref bias...
Too many times in this blog I see people trying to say it doesn’t happen. Yes sometimes we get bad calls in our favor, but only when a obvious bad call against us had been made earlier. For those who don’t believe this check out Tim Donaghy’s interview where he talks of fellow refs bias toward players (openly talking in the locker room about who they like (ex: Kobe) and who they hate (ex: Iverson) and how they won’t give their least favorite anything but totally obvious calls. He also mentions the league officials’ bias toward big-market teams and all-star players because they boost ratings. So yes, the boogey-man does exist and he wants Kobe and Carmelo playing each other in the Western Conference Finals.
Refs blow another call...
i know everyone will agree when the NBA needs challenges and instant replays like the NFL in order to get the correct call that can determine the game. Maybe the last 2 minutes of the game they can callenge the officials call. The refs are human and they favor other teams more, this is not fair and it has always been like this. Remeber the official got caught gambling on a game he was officiating. Official control the game not the players. THIS IS NOT FAIR..but besides that i think monte should have not even been back there jumping at JR Smith with 1.4. half court prayer shot. He should already know that we dont get brakes because of our record and that is what ref look at most besides the all stars on a team
DUBfan4life!!!!
No way that was a foul
Of all the replays I’ve watched, I haven’t seen nay contact.
J.R. even admitted himself that there was no foul.
Either way, I don’t blame Monta for contesting that shot. It’s the NBA people. Anything can happen. J.R. could have hit that shot.
After seeing the people who were complaining about Monta contesting that shot, don’t complain about the Warriors defense, please.
Complaining about Monta contesting the shot isn’t complaining about the general concept of it. It’s complaining about the specific way Monta went about doing it. First, Maggette was there – it was unnecessary for Monta to do anything even remotely close to fouling Smith. Second, Monta jumping at Smith, trying to go behind him while simeultaneously swiping hard at the ball. Not a smart play, and one prone to cause a foul. Combine a risky way of contesting the shot with there not really being a need since Maggette already had good position is what I’m complaining about. It was a dumb play for those reasons.
Also, where did J.R. Smith admit there was no foul? Link/quote?
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
At least in the good ole days...
A Highwayman had the common decency to wear a mask, a pointy hat and a gun when robbing you…now it seems a grey shirt and a whistle is all you need!!!
and…no…there was no hip check…different camera angles to the Life pic prove that…there was slight leg contact…but if that is now a foul, the refs would not be able to take a breath for whistling at any point in the game…
It was a pathetically weak call…..
"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"
Looks like a pirate
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
An English Highwayman of roughly the 1700's....
so yes pretty much the same as a pirate…only on land and often riding a Horse! Dick Turpin was one of the most famous Highwaymen of his time…until they caught him and Hung him in York! :-)
Something that maybe we could do to the r…………
;-) Noooooo we cant say that can we….
"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 6, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Is there a better angle than NBA.com’s highlights that shows a lack of contact? It sure looked like a foul from that angle. Also, is there an angle that would closely imitate the ref who called the foul’s point of view?
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Just checked
and yeah there were.
The angle they showed makes it look like Monta rammed into Smith’s side. The other angles showed that he was kinda behind him.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 6, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
+1
I suspect that ref-ing is one of the more difficult jobs to do well and there will always be mistakes. Goes with the territory and what a ref can see from the angle he’s at in real time is different than what we can see over and over on the replay. I don’t fault refs for occasionally getting the call wrong. But knowing that they’ll blow some calls, wouldn’t it be nice if they really did lay off the whistle for anything but the more or less indisputable cases when a foul call has a +90% of deciding the game?
by jae on Jan 6, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
agreed...
It would help if there was a clear definition of ‘contact’. IF there is to be no contact…then thats it…doesnt matter if your Kobe, Lebron…anyone…you touch another player…its a foul, unless you are completely stationary in which case it goes the other way…
or………..
They make it clear that occasional body to body contact occurs, but unless its a clear hinderence to the shooter arms, or action…the contact will not be called a foul.
I have to say…some on GSOM are being a little harsh on Monta… I think he did as most would and at that moment, you know you have the win… your adrenalin is pumping and you know this guy can make the long range 3… you have to go for it… unfortunately I dont think JR Smith had any intention of actually putting up a proper shot, but instead actually drew the contact knowing he was likely to get the call…
"Better a Has-been than a Never-was. But better a Never-was than a Never-tried-to-be"
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 6, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well, back from a holiday vacation… didn’t have access to any Warriors games for the past few weeks.
Got back in time to see the last 3 minutes of this game. Classic Warriors.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 6, 2010 1:49 PM PST reply actions
Just as a note:
The ending foul has been on notice on ESPN’s on Around the Horn and PTI so at least it’s getting getting some recognition. Obviously people are arguing both sides but I think the general consensus is that there wasn’t a foul. Mike Wilbon even compared it to the Lakers/Kings playoff game in which the refs decided the game. He said it was so bogus that is was akin to that playoff game.
Now that may be a bit of an overstatement but I’m sure many MANY of us felt like that last night.
by GoldenStateGuerrero on Jan 6, 2010 3:04 PM PST reply actions
Don't forget about Maggette's call
Where he dived for the ball and called time out. Even the whole Warrior’s bench was calling time out, yet they called a jump ball. Not only that, but when Smith barely had possession of the ball going back court, they called a time out for the Nuggets. It was just bad officiating overall. I’m not taking anything away from the Nuggets because they played hard without their all stars, but I guess bad calls are just apart of any sport.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned....
Anthony Randolph’s completely ineffective play last night. Anyone want to rehash the discussion about playing time – I’m sure it hasn’t been covered enough already right.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
Uh, he had a great streak of playing
and then got taken out.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 6, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
That was sarcasm my friend...
but his first 7 minutes before being yanked included four TO’s and 1 rebound.
John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
The thing is that
if you hadn’t watched the game, but looked at the box score, you could have come to the conclusion that he had a pretty bad game.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 6, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously
The officiating was horrific. I’m not sure how you can blow the whistle in that situation. Just let them play.
But why is Monta even that close to JR? And why does he swipe? It was a 40 footer!
Suns fan here, and my 2 cents is:
you guys got jobbed, and here’s why:
Whenever something outrageous happens ( usually involving some a-hole in yellow and purple ) the announcers fall over themselves going on about " …in this league, you are just not gonna get that call in the last 2 seconds of the game..the refs are not gonna bail you out blah blah blah…"
And they do this so incessantly that you start say " hey you know what, i guess if these washed up coaches and players say the rules don’t matter at the end of a game, then maybe they’re right! " Ok, I’m not going to let no-calls at the end of the game bother me anymore because as long as it’s consistent then at least I know what to expect!!
Except of course, when they change their minds. So really, the last seconds of the game are subject to the personal preferences of the refs that happen to be there and whether they’re going to beat the point spread or not…
So, bottom line, I’d say you guys have every right to be pissed…
Monta
shouldn’t have put himself in that situation. The refs had an overall bad game. Monta took 6-7 steps before making that shot to take the lead and Curry looks like he carried as well. Monta could have played the ball much better than he did. What JR did is create the contact, something every player tries to do. I don’t agree with making the call on something that wasn’t a blatent foul, but Monta showed his lack of Basketball IQ by A. Swiping at the ball when there’s another person contesting the shot and B. For getting that close to JR to even get garner contact.
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
Monta took 6-7 steps before making that shot to take the lead
I’m not sure he ever had possession. Close, but yes, sometimes it is called a walk.
Coulda gone either way, I’d say. Of course nobody is complaining about that one since it went in the Warriors favor. ;)
by Missing Barry on Jan 6, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
The foul call doesn't matter
It’s the fact that JR committed a backcourt violation, Maggette wasn’t given a time-out, and the stupid game clock didn’t start until JR had the ball for a full second. The foul call was just insult to injury.
Fact of the matter is, the ref’s gave that game to Denver. There’s no two ways about it. There’s no argument for the Denver here that holds water. What’s heartening to me is that what comes around goes around. Denver will make it to the playoff’s and the W’s won’t. So good for you. Back to what makes me happy to think about….The Nuggets will be robbed by the ref’s when they play the Lakers in the post-season. I will dance a little jig when that happens. : )
peace
Video Shoves Everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQl1m031oxE
At the 0:37 Maggette cannot be seen calling a timeout. Look at the placement of the three refs. One is near George Karl, the other is at the three point line where Maggette’s back is towards him, and the other is blinded by Martin,Nene & Turiaf. No other Warrior/Coach did NOT signal a timeout. until after the play was already called. Nellie didn’t raise his hand until AFTER the play was already was called a jump ball.
At 2:09 You see that Karl runs to the ref, past the line where coaches can go, but still gets the call before JR crosses the line.
At 3:53 The clock starts right on time to me.
We gave the game to Denver by not making smart decisions in the game. Something we have grown accustom to doing in the past few years. We lost because Monta put himself in the stupid situation and even though JR flailed on the play, Ellis had absolutely no reason to put himself that close to him. No coach has ever taught his player to close out/contest a shot like that. What he did was idiotic on his part. But it doesn’t matter anymore, that was a while ago. As Jay-Z said, On To The Next One
GSOM- Where Education From Debate Happens
by The Dedication on Jan 7, 2010 1:50 AM PST up reply actions
anyone have a video?
I will always be your fan JRich. Good Luck
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