Knicks in hot pursuit of 'Melo? [ESPN New York]

Hm, any guesses as to the identity of the mystery "player from a third team"? Iguodala, perchance...?

over 1 year ago Sleepy Freud 39 comments 0 recs |

Comments

I enjoy when the Knicks are down. I hope they land ‘Melo – it’ll give them just enough to tease NY’ers, but not enough to be taken seriously, and the NY media will explode trying to figure out why a team with two “superstars!” isn’t winning more. :)

by Missing Barry on Oct 20, 2010 8:24 AM PDT reply actions

Ha

To be fair, I think you could win and be a eastern conference contender with Melo and Amare as your two “superstars”. IF your other three players are good defenders, passers, generally under appreciated by the media but good basketball players. Lets say they had Blake, Pietrus, Camby. That being said. The Knicks do NOT have that. Not at all,.

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Blake, Pietrus, Camby [+ Melo and Amare]

I still don’t think that team really contends with Miami, Orlando, or Boston.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Oct 20, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions

It all depends on the entire roster I suppose. It doesn’t compete with Miami. but Boston and Orlando aren;t out of question DEPENDING who else is there. Point being I could make a very good team with no ‘all stars’ surrounding Melo and Amare

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions

The problem is that “very good team” is largely “very good” because of those non-all-stars you’re talking about, rather than because of Melo/Amare.

by Missing Barry on Oct 20, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Hmmm… with Pietrus and Camby, they would have a formidable defense. Between Stats offense, ’Melo’s physical play and that kind of defense, I would have to give them a good shot.

The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.

by Naticus on Oct 20, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Two players do not make a good defense. Miami destroys that team.

by Missing Barry on Oct 20, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Mellow isn’t a bad defender, especially when it counts. A good center adds a huge amount to defense and Pietrus is one of the best swing defenders in the league. With Pietrus defending Wade and ‘Melo defending James, with Camby backing them up, plus you might consider Amare would outscore Bosh and may get him in foul trouble, they probably wouldn’t get destroyed… Well, Miami has a tough center themselves in Ilgauskus, so you may be right. But Pietrus and Camby is going in the right direction.

The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.

by Naticus on Oct 20, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions

+1

Too much emphasis on conssitent defending over good defending. Kobe is not the most consistent defender, floats through the regular season. But when it matters, he is a very good defender.

I don’t think it beats Miami but it’s a challenger. In all honesty how do you beat 2 of thetop 5 players in NBA, 3 of top 10 (arguably) and a good supporting cast.

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions

In all honesty how do you beat 2 of thetop 5 players in NBA, 3 of top 10 (arguably) and a good supporting cast.

It’s a good point. You don’t.

That said, short of getting other good players (in which case those other good players are largely responsible for the Knicks success in this hypothetical scenario), they don’t beat Boston or Orlando, either…

by Missing Barry on Oct 21, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Agreed

But I think they have a good supporting cast. For me x-factor is Joel Anthony. They are hyping him a lot. But if he can give them ‘poor mans kendrick perkins’ production its fine. Especially when you got Udonis and Big Z. I figure the trio will be averaging 20 minutes each. (and i forgot Juwan Howard who is a useful big man)

Add to it Mike Miller is awesome and a perimeter and a trio of Wade, Miller, Lebron is deadly in terms of ball movement. Not to mention Chalmers is a good player, who in his role (play defense, hit open shots) will thrive.

Eitherway it speaks to my point, its EASY to find role players with good management. Perhaps not this point in the season, but given all summer (like miami had) it’s easy

by tafkasam on Oct 21, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Even when it counts, I’ve seen little out of Melo that shows he’s a quality defender. And when it “doesn’t count”, he’s pretty horrendous, which is pretty much all the time. I didn’t realize Pietrus had gotten his fouling under control. Good for him. I’m not sure I would call him one of the best defenders, personally. He is a solid defender, but if he was elite, you’d think he’d get more minutes, right? When your minutes are going to guys like Redick and the version of Barnes that can’t hit a 3 to save his life, that’s probably a pretty good indication you aren’t among the very best in the league.

you might consider Amare would outscore Bosh and may get him in foul trouble

I dunno if Amare would outscore Bosh. Amare is the better scorer of the two, no doubt, but he’s also the worse defender. Bosh might do the same thing to Amare that Amare does to Bosh. Also depends on how many touches Melo lets Amare have.

Too much emphasis on conssitent defending over good defending. Kobe is not the most consistent defender, floats through the regular season. But when it matters, he is a very good defender.

I’m not sure what your point is here. Why give a guy credit for defense that he isn’t playing? The whole point of “consistent” D is that, you know, you’re actually playing it…..

Overall, Miami has way more talent than a team with Melo and Amare. Neither of those guys can create at all for teammates, and Melo doesn’t even score efficiently. There’s going to be a lack of defense and rebounding there, and the best case scenario has you guys assuming they can pick up talented role players…in which case the role players are largely to credit for the teams success…..

by Missing Barry on Oct 21, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions

What if

they also land Paul next summer… ?

by Krazee max on Oct 20, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Then they have that problem that there’s only one basketball. Where’s the defense? The rebounding? What use is Melo if Paul always has the ball? When is Amare going to get any touches besides pick and rolls with Paul?

by Missing Barry on Oct 20, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions

I don't think it's that big an issue

If they fill out team with a strong defensive rebounding 5 and 2.

Paul will drop his points per game and up his assists to an even more inhumane number. He’s not selfish. I’d see it more of an issue if it was Melo, Amare and Kobe for ex.

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions

So you somehow find 2 really good role players to fill out the roster, despite having 3 max contracts already? Good luck. You’re still left with a weak defensive team overall with at best average rebounding. Meh. Here’s the problem:

Paul will drop his points per game and up his assists to an even more inhumane number. He’s not selfish

Chris Paul is not the problem. The problem is do you watch how Paul gets his numbers? He does it by being the offense all by himself. Which is great, because he’s very good at it. The problem is what’s left for Carmelo? What’s left for Amare? If Carmelo is reduced to a role player, as he would be with Paul dominating the ball like he does (which would be the best strategy)….what’s the point in having Carmelo? You can get someone else that can shoot, who can also play defense and rebound for much cheaper. Carmelo is providing that team with almost nothing. Any possession where Melo DOES get the rock and is the focal point, which realistically will be fairly often, is a possession it’s out of Paul’s hand. That’s a bad thing.

I like Chris Paul and Amare together (though Amare is extremely overpaid) – it would be a lot like what Nash did with Amare. Carmelo is just completely and utterly pointless to that team – he takes away the opportunity to find someone who plays defense and rebounds, and realistically, he’s going to take away a lot of possessions from Paul to create less efficient shots.

If I’m building a team around Chris Paul, I’m thinking….well, I don’t need any other offensive players, just guys who can finish a bit – whether it’s Tyson Chandler finishing pick and rolls or a good shooter who can hit set shots, you have Chris Paul to consistently create good shots for the team, you don’t need other creators. What you need is defense and rebounding, and so I fill up the team with those skills around Paul. There’s no point in spending ridiculous sums of money to get other plays who only play offense. Opportunity cost. It’s going to bite you.

by Missing Barry on Oct 20, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions

You have valid points but you're too close minded

Did you see Paul and Melo in olympics? Both were able ot adapt there games to play with less ball. Infact many people think that was Carmelo’s best play. Less ball, cutting to hook, rotating off screens, posting up taking open shots when they came. I mean every point you bring up is a valid concern for Miami too, but I think they’ll be ok. Heck all your points were made about Boston entering 06/07. I’m sure you remember all those players pre-Boston.

Point is I think it’s more an issue of mentality. I get the feeling they are willing to check tyhere egos at the door and make it work to win, then no problems. Talent’s not an issue. It’s an issue of teamwork and a smart coach who knows how to manage them and run right offensive sets to keep them all happy. Ultimately though, if they are winning they’ll all be fine..

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, I think it’s more than just an issue of mentality, it’s mostly an issue of “fit”. I just don’t see those guys being good fits for each other to maximize all their talents. Chris Paul is at his best being the dominant force for an offense. Every play starts with him. He’s so talented that he’ll score efficiently and create tons of efficient shots for his teammates. A guy like Melo just isn’t a good fit for that – Melo’s value comes on offense, where he’s essentially a black hole. There’s only one ball, you don’t want those two forces competing against each other. Instead, you want Chris Paul doing the offense, and other guys grabbing rebounds and playing D – and that’s just not Melo’s strength. There are plenty of other, cheaper players who are better at those things than him, though. Even in the Olympics Melo’s role was to shoot the ball (and I’m not a big fan of using international competition as a measuring stick for a lot of reasons). I see Melo as the odd man out for that team. A guy like Gerald Wallace would help a Paul/Amare tandem way more than Melo would.

by Missing Barry on Oct 21, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions

LOL Yeah… if you’re going to get superstars, you should probably get ones that are really high quality. Melo and Stat? Meh. Good but not great.

The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.

by Naticus on Oct 20, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Theres something to be said for it though

Now they become the most intriguing destination for other superstars. Deron Williams, CP3? Approaching free agency. They won’t win titles at current locations…Dwight Howard? That’d be a nice defensive center who rebounds to take care of amare’s weaknesses.

Just saying both have a lot of respect and star power and thats probably what NYC would be banking on. Ability to attract the 3rd one to bring it together.

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions

In other news we should all blame Kevin Garnett for ruining the NBA

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Seems to me it would be tough to go about landing another superstar if you’re already paying Melo and Amare max deals? I would think NY already has the draw to attract a superstar, even if they swung and missed this last time around…

by Missing Barry on Oct 21, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions

HAHA ready to get rid of randolph so quick?

they can already tell what took us forever.. randolph will be a bust.

by bballinpacisler on Oct 20, 2010 9:33 AM PDT reply actions

Haha

They want to get rid of him before his value really go down. I just hope he will not end up to D-League

Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........

by mykelala01 on Oct 20, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions

maaan...

why can’t we get Iggy?!
If the knicks (supposedly) can get him for odds-n-ends…

"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh

by Duby Dub Dubs on Oct 20, 2010 9:38 AM PDT reply actions

In the hypothetical three-way, Denver would get Iguodala, the Knicks would get ’Melo, and Philly would get “odds and ends” that include Randolph and Gallinari.

You can make a pretty compelling case for that deal for all three teams. What kind of Warriors package would you propose that beats Rudolf and Gallo?

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Oct 20, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Both of them

Plus additional draft picks to insure we aren’t in the lottery (by merit or not) till like 2015.

by tafkasam on Oct 20, 2010 10:01 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs

bwahaha! rec’d.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Oct 20, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Jus get Melo outa Denver

So they suck and the Warriors have a better chance in making teh playoffs

PFortyy :)

'11 Champs!

by Potential on Oct 20, 2010 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Unless they end up with, say, Iguodala or Kirilenko, both of whom might actually make them better.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Oct 20, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions

I hope we're not in the 'Melo hunt

I’d be more than happy to see him play with Amare in NY. I bet they wouldn’t like each other after a couple of seasons.

by Uwe Blog on Oct 20, 2010 3:57 PM PDT via mobile reply actions

We aren't

by duballers23 on Oct 20, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions

this appears to be a false alarm (at least according to the most recent article anyways)

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/10/20/melo-report/index.html

So, an insider says this rumor has “no legs”
Well that’s good for us, because as Sleepy pointed out above, the rumored additions to the Nuggets seemed like they could really improve their team.

Which brings up an intersting point (to me at least) and that is:
assuming some sort of deal does go through to move ’Melo east, can we expect the Nuggs to actually be better?

I would think that there is a fair argument that it would indeed make them better. As has been pointed out on this site before, Melo may be able to fill up the basket, but he doesn’t do it very efficiently, and his defense is suspect at best. Now, I’m not sure that they want two defensive additions (Iggy and AK47), but suppose they managed to get one offensive beast to cover Melo’s contributionson one end of the floor, as well as one solid defender (probably at the three) to improve on what they got from Melo on the defensive end.

As the Warriors are on the bottom looking up, we have enough to worry about with the other teams in our division. I think an overlooked aspect to the Melo trade speculation is that the Nuggets could quite possibly be tougher without him…

"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh

by Duby Dub Dubs on Oct 20, 2010 5:07 PM PDT reply actions

I definitely feel they could be better. If the AK trade went through, they would have the best defense the NBA has seen in years, while still having Harrington, JR, Nene, and Chauncey to score. The only reason they didn’t pull the trigger on that is the luxury tax. The payroll would’ve gone up significantly, but a lineup of Billups, Aflalo, AK, Kmart, and Nene is a defensive juggernaut.

by Uwe Blog on Oct 20, 2010 6:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

I believe they would be worse. Denver still had the 3rd best offense in the league last year, and it’s not like Chauncey is out there creating tons of shots for everyone. Melo definitely had an impact on that as the biggest part of the offense. Their offense was 4.6 points better per 100 possessions last year when Melo was on the court than when he was off. It was 7.6 points better two years ago. Yes, I believe Melo’s offense is overrated due to his lack of creating for teammates and lack of scoring efficiency, but I think the evidence still suggests he has a pretty positive impact on offense. Just not as big as 28 ppg! might suggest.

by Missing Barry on Oct 21, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions

Billups isn’t a big assist guy and never really has been, but he knows how to control the game. He makes plenty of opportunities for his teammates that don’t show up as assists.
Iverson put up lots of assists, but the offense was very stagnant.

by Uwe Blog on Oct 21, 2010 1:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

He makes plenty of opportunities for his teammates that don’t show up as assists.

More than other good PG’s who also blow him away in assists?

by Missing Barry on Oct 22, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions

But you’re right, in the lineup that I presented, the offense wouldn’t be as good. No argument here. I just think the defense would be fantastic enough to offset that in the playoffs.

by Uwe Blog on Oct 21, 2010 1:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

It depends on what they get.

Your political posts are a bit like the flu, Natty: they come around every few months, they suck, everyone wishes there were a cure, but all you can do is let them run their course. Carry on if you must — I’m staying home with my vitamin C and OJ. Ciao.- Sleepy Freud

by GovernorStephCurry on Oct 21, 2010 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions