Anthony Morrow Heating Up, Dorell Wright Chucking More
by CC_ on Nov 27, 2010 2:14 PM PST
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The Nets sent TWill down to the D League for being an idiot and he was already mostly benched thru November. Anthony Morrow is almost back above 40% on 3s and he's hitting shots at a great clip overall while bringing some OK rebounding help and solid team floor time work according to 82games.com. Dorell Wright, while still OK acc. to 82 games for now, is sort of a mess trying/being asked to do too much and frequently making folks sitting near me at home games at Oracle call him "Dorell Pietrus" for all the traveling and turnovers.
Anyway, the November numbers for the two after the jump.
Morrow: 34.5 MPG, 14 PPG, 3.8 REB, 1.1 AST, 1.4 TO, 48.8 FG% (10.6 ATT), .397 3PT% (4.8 ATT)
DWright: 38.5 MPG, 13.5 PPG, 5.2 REB, 3.5 AST, 1.7 TO, 35.6 FG% (13.1 ATT), .339 3PT% (4.8 ATT)
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Anthony Morrow
super happy for him. he’s getting playing time and for putting up the 2nd best 3 point shooter percentage right behind steve kerr. . . just wish he was still a warrior
by No Dice Jim Rice on Nov 27, 2010 2:21 PM PST reply actions
Yeah he was one of my favorites...
like Dorell Wright, he won’t stop any prime time NBA wings any time soon but unlike Dorell, Morrow can hit his picture perfect shot consistently in any team system. Nets are a mess but he’s been expanding his game a ton under Avery Johnson and maybe he’ll be a good starter moving forward once that team has its plan in place. Defensively improved, too.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
he’s been expanding his game a ton under Avery Johnson
Sure.
Morrow, per 36
Last season under Nellie: 16.0 pts (.597 ts) / 4.6 reb / 1.9 ast / 0.9 stl
This season under Avery: 13.1 pts (.585 ts) / 3.5 reb / 1.4 ast / 0.4 stl
By “expanding,” you mean contracting?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 29, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
So you think that Morrow has improved as a player because he might be playing defense now? He’s doing less on offense and the glass. He’s getting fewer minutes.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
How do you know he's improved on defense?
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
Do you really watch Nets games?
I guess it would be worth it for Marv Albert.
I didn’t say that improved defense wasn’t a good thing. The key word was might. I wasn’t aware that you’ve been watching Anthony Morrow’s defense consistently this year.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Im happy with DWRight as a starter over Morrow
DWright seems to bring a better bag of skillsets and productivity to the table. Not sure how you got caught up on the whole DWright Vs. Morrow idea to begin with, but whatever floats your boat.
by WestCoastWarrior on Nov 29, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Dorell
played abysmally yesterday. First time I truly hated him. I was yelling at my TV; he was showing terrible bball IQ.
However, those numbers are expected – Morrow more efficient shooter, Dorell just generally does more. Based on what you know of these two players, can you really say you’d take Morrow as a starting SF over Wright? I wouldn’t. I think Wright’s poor shooting is likely to work itself out, either by him shooting better or less. Morrow, on the other hand, is a one-dimensional player and that can’t really work itself out.
"Hold it. The Schwarzenegger Library?" - John Spartan after hearing Arnold became President, from Demolition Man
Morrow off bench > Dorell starting on a legit team.
You make nice points if it’s a straight up 3 comparison.
Morrow starts at 2 for the Nets. I wouldn’t start him. If we wanted to try a player correlate, I’d say Morrow’s more like a Mike Miller (without the passing) 6th/7th guy for a good team, not Ray Allen on a great team. Warriors might have yet again put more effort into Salary Protection, weird scouting department vendettas, and volume stat hyping than they do into actual team building.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Who starts at 3 on that team?
Is it Outlaw?
I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 27, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Iguodala would have been nice. Shooting 3's better than DWright thru 13 Nov. games.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I'm all about Iguodala
I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 27, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Morrow off bench > Dorell starting on a legit team.
Looks like you are saying that the Warriors are not a legit team. Cannot image that many here would trade Dorell for Morrow off the bench. If Morrow was added back off the bench with Dorell Starting OK. Of couse if the gods gave us a all-star SF with Dorell off the bench then great but its better to move on with the actual reality of this space in time.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 28, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
So you're saying beating the Timberwolves make the Warriors a legit team?
D Wright should not be starting on a good team over Iggy, etc., and Morrow as an efficient rotation shooting option in a better team infrastructure is absolutely preferable to starting a streaky baller chucker (Stephen Jackson lite in Dorell’s case) and salivating over empty stats in bad games for a losing team. Yes.
Last night’s spoonfed easy looks notwithstanding (Monta’s such a great point guard!).
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Guess we just all over the board here. You are saying that we are not a “legit” team. Another guy says we are top ten and there is even a guy saying top 5. Laughing and falling outa my chair.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 28, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yep I dont see Morrow start either. Great guy off the bench. So glad that we have Dorell Wright !
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 27, 2010 2:40 PM PST reply actions
Dorell Wright is not a quality starting option. Not remotely as good as Ariza, for example.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I dunno, Ariza is colossally overrated. He’s put up shooting numbers like those for years, without the passing numbers.
I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 27, 2010 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
And i think Dorell will be better once Smart stops over using him.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 27, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Could be so. Don't think Smart is the answer and don't think he makes relevant changes.
Wish we would make a real move and get Iguodala.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Ariza is garbage
He was overrated because he played for the Lakers and received the LA hype (it helps when ESPN has a studio across from the arena).
What has Ariza done since he left LA. He is a pretty decent defender, but has yet to break 40% from the field since leaving LA. The dude is way overpaid. The Warriors got a good player for the money in D-Wright. You don’t need stars at every position. He is a good defender that helps set the tone on that end of the floor and takes some of the pressure off Monta. He has a sweet stroke and is a team first type of player.
What has Ariza done since he left LA.
He’s played rather good defense, which in part kept Houston near .500 year ago, a Houston team that everyone expected to implode when Yao was unavailable. It’s also a part of the Hornets rather significantly good play this year.
He is a pretty decent defender,
You misspelled “He is one of the top defenders in the game.”
Wright is a better bargain, but Ariza is more than just “LA hype.”
Few would question ~6 mil a year for one of the top 10 scorers if the same couldn’t play defense. But spend that on a guy who is one of the top defenders in the game, but struggles on offense and all of a sudden he’s ‘way overpaid’. One could get the impression that your average fan does not appreciate that defense is half the game.
Maybe I was a little harsh calling him garbage
I was simply trying to make a point too the person above that wrote: “Dorell Wright is not a quality starting option. Not remotely as good as Ariza, for example”. I reacted to this absurd comment with equal exaggeration.
Ariza is a pretty good player, but he was overrated due to playing in LA. The Lakers were smart not to offer the huge contract that Ariza was seeking. Sure he is a good defender, although he is more of a athletic “gambler” than he is a lockdown man on man type of defender. He failed miserably back in 2008 when he was asked to put the clamps down on Paul Pierce who was carving up the Lakers at will. He is a GOOD defender, but NOT great. There were 20 guys that received votes last season for DPOY and Trevor Ariza was not one of them. He is not one of the premier defenders in the league and probably not even better than D-Wright. If D-
Wright played for the Lakers he would have been the guy with the 5 yr/$33 mil contract…believe it!!
You're right, he's "worthless"
meaning no better than average NBA bench player.
He’s got a shot similar to another famous bricklayer, Baron Davis.
Not the small guard that gets a team into the playoffs.
The Ws are not a playoff team with Dorell starting.
by formerlythecity on Dec 5, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
Morrow is making slightly more money
And does not bring as much to the table as Dorell.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
Mike Singletary: Doing the same thing week in and week out expecting a different result.
Morrow might be better than Wright in the shooting department
but it’s Dorell’s length,defensive attitude and the fact that he’s 6"7 is so appealing to us.
by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Nov 27, 2010 2:44 PM PST reply actions
He gets abused on defense. Some shot blocking, which has been a nice surprise.
Seriously overrated player by talk point review but very willing passer at many times, which is great.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Dorell W
For what he is costing us I do not see how he could be over rated? Are you refering to him being “over rated” by us?
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 27, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Yup. And by the team. They really think they scored...
But they fully intended him to be the savior starter at SF. Rowell still running cash ops. Salary Protection signing, period. No one else wanted the guy on same terms, either.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
IM PERFECTLY HAPPY WITH DORELL but, as far as his minutes go and the load on his shoulders is wehre the problem lays
he willl be better fit when our cavalry return.. and less is on his shoulders
Dorell
Seems like he is one of the focal points of our offense. Though I can’t understand why. I’d like to see Curry shoot the ball more.
yes!!!
curry has the best shot! he should be taking more shots. i’ve been loving his takes to the basket recently tho, dont get me wrong he keeps the dribble alive and it patient unlike monta “always caught in the air” ellis but he’s our best 3 point shooter, he should shoot the most threes.
by No Dice Jim Rice on Nov 27, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
If Curry had the Mentality of Monta
then this would be gold. No not the ill-advised forced shots, but the mindset that when nobody is scoring to make his own shot. Even if Curry’s shooting % suffers. IDC. Shoot the rock Curry!!
Adande says Curry should stick to shooting. It's his game. PG ain't.
And Adande wasn’t bagging on his passing potential. Just saying he is a shooter and should get to focus on that. Curry’s best game is when he’s running iso offense against B squads. He can score in bunches vs. bad D if he doesn’t have to run legit offense. Could be an asset at 6th man actually or the team could figure out how to get him moving better off the ball for more open looks since I agree, his 3 point shot is the team’s best now with Morrow gone.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Anyone that says he should focus on shooting is a fool. His passing ability is a much rarer asset! Please! If we wanted purely a shooter, we should have just kept Morrow!
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I have been hoping to agree with just one of your comments but….
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 28, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
It's OK, you don't agree wiht me in the other forums either.
;-)
On ball though, you disagree with Adande then?
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Well CC as Adande mentioned Curry likes being in the drivers seat and so do we.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 28, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
?
Why not just acquire a big point guard who can make the switch effectively on D and run Curry off the ball for stretches? Take notes from the Piston’s playbook and have him run off the double screen. Lord knows we have bigs who set great screens. Curry a sixth man? Not running the offense? But, why? He’s not a pure point, but he’s an extremely talented playmaker. Have you watched games?
dorell
needs to stop all of his pump fake offense. pump fake jumper, pump fake dribble drive, pump fake mid range J. All bad choices.
He needs to extend on his finishes and go strong, not shoot flip shots. And I think that double clutch reverse he made during the exhibition practice really gave him an unfounded confidence in that shot as I haven’t seen him make it since. No more double clutch reverse. Just freakin dunk it or extend out and finish hard.
He needs to shoot more set shots. He’s tall enough to get his shot off. Stop worrying about other options on offense and stick to a limited mindset. Shoot or don’t shoot.
But I don’t think these things happen cuz Smart and Co have been encouraging him too much early on. Who knows, maybe it will pay off and Dorell corrects his weaknesses in his newly expanded role. Until then, here’s hoping we have to see less of those bad finishes and pumpfake offense and more of the catch-and-shoot Dorell we saw early in the season
Goal: 8 seed!
Except...
…his pump fake continues to put the defender off balance. There’s nothing wrong with pump faking… in fact, if his shot is falling, it’s still very effective.
He does need to pull back and know his role. Spot shooting, defense, and running lanes on the fast break. He should NEVER be doing contested turn around jumpers. Ever. He should not be initiating offense as often as he has been. If he plays within himself, we’ve all seen how huge a contribution he can make.
by warriorsablaze on Nov 27, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Yep his pump fakes are pretty predictable by now.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 27, 2010 4:03 PM PST reply actions
yup
needs to stop all of his pump fake offense. pump fake jumper, pump fake dribble drive, pump fake mid range J. All bad choices.
he pump fakes everytime he get the ball and now hes doing it after he picks up the dribble. like last night at the end of the game
by No Dice Jim Rice on Nov 27, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
No player will benefit more from Lee's return than D. Wright
He’ll be required to do less offensively and will go back to his more glue-like role: D-ing up, hitting the corner 3, sharing the ball, and boarding from the SF position.
Lee's presence
improves #1Wright’s 3 pt. shooting from < .20 to > .50. He’s getting the second most minutes on the team after years of variable usage, in itself a significant adjustment. Smart over-uses him because there isn’t anyone else with his combination of length and skills, and because overall he makes correct plays more often than errors. The team has already seen him deliver in the clutch enough times that shot at the game’s end to tie that he missed was shrugged off by his ’mates as the fortunes of competition.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
Have to say that it is strange to see a 6-9" Dorell drive to the basket and pass out the ball rather than finish. As If he never intended to finish and doesnt recognize the opportunity. Playing like a small guard sometimes.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 28, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
I think it's telling that Dorell's offense went in the tank when ...
… David Lee got hurt, Monta started forcing it, and our ball movement went to bleep.
Dorell’s a player who demonstrated early in the season that he was great at exploiting off-balance defenses created by reactions to other players. Its not surprising that he started to struggle when we stopped setting him up. Basketball is often not that complex a game.
In what league is that adequate rebounding from the 2 spot?
I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 27, 2010 10:31 PM PST reply actions
I think Dorell just had an incredible shooting game!
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 27, 2010 11:24 PM PST reply actions
Seriously. I couldn't have worse timing. Heh.
Nice game DWright. Love it when the Wolves hit the sked. Still streaky, shooting WAY too much.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
you all are forgetting
Yes, he’s six seasons into his career, but this is a guy who was drafted straight out of HIGH SCHOOL. Dorell is only 24, and has loads more time to progress before he actually hits his prime. I’ve been saying this about monta as well when everyone wanted to give hime the boot- he’s so young outta high school. Both will get much, much better over time.
Dorell also came straight out of pat rileys system, where unless your name is wade or chalmers, you literally get no attention as a rookie and get regulated to the bench. Give dorell credit – he’s just a little off right now. It’ll all round out.
Lastly, dorell is a reason why the warriors arew 8-9, nowhere close to the nets record. I’m pretty sure we’d be worse off with morrow back on the squad instead. I do miss the guy tho, he was a good kid.
by dubious dubz on Nov 28, 2010 8:13 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Yes, he’s six seasons into his career, but this is a guy who was drafted straight out of HIGH SCHOOL. Dorell is only 24, and has loads more time to progress before he actually hits his prime.
24 is much, much closer to prime than most think. It’s pretty much prime. Some players improve later in their careers, but on average, 24 is pretty close to indistinguishable from peak. I’m not sure how you figure that yelling “HIGH SCHOOL” should somehow make us think that he’s still got more room to grow. The average peak age does not change much between those who played multiple years of college and those who were 1 or fewer years in college. If anything, the earlier someone gets to the NBA, the earlier they hit their peak.
Your missing an important factor
circumstance/context.
Sure 24 is on the youthful side of the average peak, but dont you think moving to a new team with a new offensive plays an important factor in the development of a player’s career?
Dont you think that moving from being a backup player who is burried in the rotation, to a starter who is an important part of the offense, can affect the peak of an individual’s career?
by WestCoastWarrior on Nov 28, 2010 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm… these are good points. Of course, I think the adjustment from backup to starter in a different offense would only take a year or so. Well… developing leadership and ability to shoot in the clutch may take a bit longer. I guess you’re basically right.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Your [sic] missing an important factor
You’re responding to what you wish I wrote rather than what I wrote.
I dont wish you write anything
thats a funny thing to say.
Just saying DWright may have more room to grow.
by WestCoastWarrior on Nov 28, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
I dont wish you write anything
Best comeback to jae this year :-P.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 29, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly, he's not a shooter, a rebounder or a shot blocker
He’s not making steals, and guards on opposing teams have been having career nights against he “defense.”
What he “brings” to the starting unit escapes me. Except that he is “better” than the guys on the bench. This team has three players right now. And it sucks.
by formerlythecity on Dec 5, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
wrong
See kevin garnett, kobe bryant, and lebron james. And monta ellis.
Dorell is no megastar, but none of the above truly flourished until they really got the chance. This is dorells first chance
by dubious dubz on Nov 28, 2010 12:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It looks like Lebron has peaked. He's 25. It looks like Monta has peaked, he's 25.
Kobe peaked around 26-27. KG around 25.
Not sure what you’re saying.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
And remember
when we say peak, we don’t mean there is a significant drop off after that age. They maintain that approximate level of production for a few years before they really start to noticeably drop off.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
think about it
what im saying is that you can’t call out dorell and regret his signing as well as wishing morrow never left. it’s far too early to make that statement simply because dorell is being given his first shot ever, and he still has a huge amount of time in his career to grow and fix his game. he shouldnt even be close to under scrutiny yet
by dubious dubz on Nov 29, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Warriors always have a new streaky wing guy...
no other team let shoot whenever they wanted to or handle the ball in ugly slop ball run enough to get some stats. Dorell hasn’t played a LICK of defense since he arrived. We’ve seen this so many times before in the Nellieball annals. Time to wise up. Cheap is cheap.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Dorell has been very active on defense. Are you watching the same games I am? His one on one defense hasn’t been terribly impressive, but overall, I give him a B on defense.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Name a game. Name a player he contained.
You’re making it up. I acknowkedged the blocked shots he sometimes gets. I don’t count the Keith Smart hands/deflections/bother TO defense as legit difference making defense. That’s Nellie ball gimmick defense that doesn’t stop legit players/teams from running roughshod over us.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I don’t count the Keith Smart hands/deflections/bother TO defense as legit difference making defense.
Well, that’s stupid.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I would think that it’s a big part of defense. Don’t think causing turnovers, giving your team the ball, is a defensive effort? I mean, sure, I would love our guys to play great defense where it makes it hard for the other team to even shoot the ball, but this team’s strengths are more suited towards causing turnovers.
by Prince.Charming on Nov 28, 2010 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
Getting deflections and steals represent good defense. If you’re gambling to get steals resulting in the defense breaking down, I agree that it’s bad. But I don’t see Dorell doing that so much. I see him playing good defense, including getting deflections and steals.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Do you even think the Dorell plays decent defense? I mean, I know GSoM sure was hyping up his defense quite a bit. He’s pretty good, but not godly like some of us like to believe(d). He is the best defender the Warriors have though, and he does a pretty decent job at it.
by Prince.Charming on Nov 29, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
he's a mere mortal
and seems like a pretty normal guy, in other words, no Stephen Jackson. Last season was his most productive, and the only time he’s been in 70+ games. Between then and now, his per game minutes have gone from 20+ to 38+[about a 90% increase]. A near-psycho, bionic Jackson might be able to go hard at d for 40+ min., but it might take Wright #1 a while to build up to it.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
Wrights better than Jackson. It's really that simple. Jack didn't add anything besides his defense and eventually he stopped playing that too.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Myth.
I was no Jackson fan but comparing Wright’s defensive abilities to Jackson is not going to reflect well upon Wright.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Yeah, but comparing them on any other front favors Dorell pretty strongly.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe Jack's defense was better than Dorell, but Dorell kicks his behind at scoring, rebounding, and ball handling.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
False on all but rebounding.
Dorell is a better stretch 4 option (shot blocking, athleticism) too.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Dorell is a better shooter, at least.
It coulda been me, oh yeah it coulda been me.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 30, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
3 point shooter. Jack is a bad 3 point shooter and has always been that way. Dorell was 39% last year and above 40% this year.
It coulda been me, oh yeah it coulda been me.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 1, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
You're totally right, dude.
CC_ is every bad thing you can be on an internet forum.
It coulda been me, oh yeah it coulda been me.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 1, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions
Agree on gambling. That's Warriors D thru and thru, even under NEllie.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
And with last night's game....
He’s back to 43.6% on 3 pts. Obviously DLee being back helped but did it really help that much?
I don’t ever recall Dorell trying to take his man off the dribble last night, I missed the first 8 or so minutes though, but all the 3 pointers I saw were all catch and shoot shots. I really don’t mind if he shoots a lot of these types of shots, I don’t like it when he was trying to do too much when DLee was out.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
Mike Singletary: Doing the same thing week in and week out expecting a different result.
Some of it is random variation -
- but I think a lot of it is the way our ball movement has gotten stagnant without Lee. It’s not just Dorell who suffered – Monta’s game fell apart, too, because he started forcing it. (Only a bunch of people didn’t notice because Monta usually still managed to get a bunch of points – just required way too many shots to do it).
Players who force the ball can be contagious, as other players feel like they have to force up shots or they won’t get any shots. Similarly, unselfish play can be contagious, too – players know that if they’re open and move without the ball, they’re going to get shots.
I don't see any sort of attempt to seriously discuss this topic here.
I’m saying that the Timberwolves are patsies.
Only three teams in the league give up a higher percentage on opponent 3 point shooting. The Spurs, interestingly, are worse on percentage but one of the top teams in the league in limiting total 3 pointers attempted and made by opponents.
The Timberwolves allow more three point shots than all but 4 other teams in the NBA. Their opponents have made more total 3’s than all but three other teams in the NBA. Bad game to bank Dorell Wright 3 point shot faith in and I’m still waiting to hear about any sort of defensive work from Dorell this seaons besides the occasional blocked shot.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Nine 3's, team record.
Team record.
The Warriors have had some good 3 point shooters the last few years, and have played a lot of bad teams over the years. He had seven 3 a few games ago. Pretty good for his first 18 games with the Warriors.
by WestCoastWarrior on Nov 28, 2010 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
Bad game to bank Dorell Wright 3 point shot faith in
Basing a conclusion on anything based on one game is foolish, but it takes more than porous defense to nail 9 of 12 from behind the arc. The Wolves surrender a rather ridiculous number o 3 pointers, but they aren’t surrendering 75% from behind the arc.
A better basis is that last year Dorell hit about 39% of his three pointers, a rate that’s rather good, significantly better than average. This year he was doing about the same prior to last night.
The Warriors offense runs better with DLee
Fact.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
Mike Singletary: Doing the same thing week in and week out expecting a different result.
by Badly Browned on Nov 28, 2010 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
And all the other teams we beat with David Lee
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
List them. Utah game was before Utah got their act together.
Not impressive. Knicks thankfully a .500-ish team now though. That helps our S.O.S. I’m sure we’ll beat the Spurs though.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Why should I list them?
You can look them up.
Utah game was before Utah got their act together.
So they got their act together exactly the game after playing us?
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Nope
See- I can be dismissive too. The Warriors won 8-2 games with David Lee. That doesn’t happen by accident.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
Funny that you demand people respect and address your arguments
it’s pretty hard to do so when you can’t make any.
David Lee’s +/- on the early season is positive. The team plays better with him on the court than off.
It’s one thing to dislike a player’s play because he’s played poorly. It’s another to dislike him when he plays well.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Lee's nothing special but overrate to your heart's content.
Full sample of his full time work at C last year says: fantasy stats on a bad team.
$80 million cheerleader.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
So this ‘cheerleader’ you speak of had only missed 3 games total in the last 3 seasons before being attacked by a zombie.
And I’m wondering if you ever saw who Lee lined up to last couple of years. The only other healthy “big man” was Al Harrington. So when you’re playing next to Chris Duhon, T-Mac’s corpse, Gallinari at the 4, and Toney Douglas, you expect the team to do well?
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
~yawn~
Knicks were letting him walk for nothing before the Warriors fell over themselves to give up player value just for the right to overpay him badly for half a game (all offense). But glad you’re attributing his role for a losing team to those around him in either case, Knicks or Warriors.
Go ahead. Spout those irrelevant numbers Bob Fitzgerald and Ray Ridder cooked up for you about the team’s wins record with Lee in the first few games of the season.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Knicks were letting him walk for nothing before the Warriors fell over themselves to give up player value just for the right to overpay him badly for half a game (all offense).
Half the game? Rebounding is a big part of defense, so while Lee isn’t a great defender, he helps the team defense.
And I would gladly “overpay” (it isn’t) for a legitimate PF then watch Tolliver or Maggette play the 4.
Spout those irrelevant numbers Bob Fitzgerald and Ray Ridder cooked up for you about the team’s wins record
I don’t need Bob or Ray to see that this team plays much better with David Lee on the floor. And how are these numbers irrelevant? Because you say they are?
Team was outrebounded 55-32 vs. Wolves. Next talk point?
You all lapped up the Bob Fitzgerald rebounding = defense garbage huh? Team rebounding has been a major problem for the Warriors for years. “Mack truck thru the paint” remains a major problem.
Getting a deeper rebounding core is good, especially when you play a slopball pace game in which EVERYONE gets up tons and tons of shots (and misses tons, too). It is NOT addressing legit team defense issues in any way whatsoever.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
You all lapped up the Bob Fitzgerald rebounding = defense garbage huh?…It is NOT addressing legit team defense issues in any way whatsoever.
I do not believe you to be honest in wanting a discussion here, but just in case: A defensive rebound is one of two ways to finish a defensive stop. Without recovering a turnover, it is the only way to get a defensive stop. While the rebound did not cause the missed shot, without the rebound, the missed shot would be irrelevant. They are both critical to the success of defense.
Rebounding is a component of defense. It’s a very important component. This is not a “talking point” but an actual fact of the game. Suggesting it’s otherwise and diminishing the importance of rebounding to getting defensive stops suggests that you are either a troll or have a critical void in your understanding of the game.
The errors in the “logic” with which you respond to other posters is truly staggering. You said all Lee only played half the game (all offense) to which others accurately noted that he provides significant rebounding (which is not “all offense” regardless of your confused visions of what a defensive rebound signifies). You have now turned this into a tangent that did not address what was a rather accurate indictment of your poor conception of what half the game is. I’d say more, but it has been my experience that when someone’s train runs off the rails so often, there’s really no point in explaining where it went wrong.
What you are saying makes sense to me Jae, although I'm not sure how big or small the impact of rebounding really is
Do you have any stats that correlate rebounding to points allowed or something like that? It seems super tricky to really measure, but there might be a clever way to figure out a stat that could help support or disprove this “rebounding-is-a-big-part-of-defense” thing.
by freerandolph on Nov 29, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
In terms of the impact on the probability of winning, a rebound is worth more or less exactly what a point is worth. It’s not tricky to measure. You regress rebounds against wins and regress points against wins and compare the two.
In terms of possession theory of basketball, this makes absolute perfect sense, though the data support rather than drive the theory. A defensive rebound means you did not surrender any points on a possession.
It seems to me, if your team is good at getting steals and defense/blocking shots, a rebound would be worth slightly less. If you don’t get a rebound, you have a chance to steal/block a shot and maybe get a fast break. If you do get a rebound, you have less of a chance of getting a fast break.
That said, it’s still far better to get a rebound than not, obviously. No team gets steals on 50% of opponent positions, obviously.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
It seems to me, if your team is good at getting steals and defense/blocking shots, a rebound would be worth slightly less. If you don’t get a rebound, you have a chance to steal/block a shot and maybe get a fast break. If you do get a rebound, you have less of a chance of getting a fast break.
The likelihood of the other events does not change the value of the rebound. They are awarded their own values, which do not covary with incidence of rebounding.
I disagree. Just to make my point, if your chances of getting a steal after your opponent gets an offensive rebound were 75%, and your chances of getting a fast break off of that steal were 75%, not getting a rebound not really be very costly at all. You might as well not rebound at all.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Steals and blocks
not sure I completely understand what you’re saying, but steals are much, much harder to come by than defensive rebounds. Defensive rebounds are also a product of a more reliable failing device: Shooting.
Steals rely more on complicated means of failure, such as coaching, spacing, experience, and of course, talent.
Which seems more concrete and reliable? If I’m allowed to use an example of a veteran team with good players, are they more likely to make mistakes and throw the ball away, or have a bad shooting night?
Also, blocks rarely result in a turnover. More often than not, they either go out of bounds or are rewarded back to the player who’s shot was blocked.
Naticus, the problem is -
That when your opponent has possession, essentially, all possession are created equal. Nobody has demonstrated that possessions generated by one method are better than possessions generated by others.
So you’re basically just hypothesizing something for which there is absolutely zero evidence (and some rather substantial evidence against) and using it to support a theory that doesn’t make much sense to begin with …
I don’t think so. Steals result in fast breaks and easy buckets as opposed to a short defensive rebound. If your team SUCKS at half court offense, getting a rebound is worth less than it would be otherwise compared to getting steal and a fast break. I’m sticking to my theory.
Not that I am recommending we not get rebounds. I’m just saying, for some teams, getting a board is less valuable than for others.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I think you're making an unfair generalization.
Some steals result in a quick fast break the other way.
But some rebounds do, too. A team with a commitment to running – say the D’antonni/Nash Suns, or the Showtime Lakers – can run more consistently after a rebound because rebounds are more predictable: when the shot goes up, players who aren’t in rebounding position release offensively, so you’re actually starting the break before you have possession.
Steals sometimes lead to breakaways (say, when a pass between two backcourt players is intercepted) but it’s very hard to have a team fast break under those circumstances because the situation is inherently unpredictable.
My point is not a very important point anyway. I’m just saying that the value of a rebound varies very, very slightly, depending on the team and depending on the opponent. If your opponent is terrible in half court offense, rebounding against them is less important, too.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I don’t think so. Steals result in fast breaks and easy buckets as opposed to a short defensive rebound.
Again, what you think is really not relevant to what actual data indicate. And actual data indicate that the impact on win probability of a steal is not appreciably different from a defensive rebound. This isn’t a case where opinion matters. It’s empirical.
The reasons you cite are all possible reasons why we might expect to see a difference. But we don’t actually see one.
The rebound value does not change because the execution afterwards is poor. The missed shots or turnovers are accounted for in their own right.
by jae on Dec 3, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
And actual data indicate that the impact on win probability of a steal is not appreciably different from a defensive rebound. This isn’t a case where opinion matters. It’s empirical.
But that’s collectively. Individual teams vary. That’s my point.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Meh.
I mean, I think if you wanted to show something empircally, that’d be interesting. But right now all you’ve got is a vaguely fuzzy theory, that’s not even based on an accurate assessment of steals vs. rebounds and running.
Team was outrebounded 55-32 vs. Wolves.
Nice to cherrypick ONE game to prove your point. David Lee clearly isnt 100% or else he probably would’ve boarded more.
It is NOT addressing legit team defense issues in any way whatsoever.
Yes it is. Rebounding is a huge part of defense. This is a fact.
Rebounding important, AS I SAID.
Nice ot have more rebounders on the floor than to not. Radmanovic and Gadzuric, however, worse rebounders than Adrien for example, and yet they get more minutes.
That game against Minnesota was Exhibit A of why rebounding can be severely overstated in relation ot defense.
Like it has been by Warriors Pr and fans who enjoy company line. We’re all fans here. Some of us are capable of thinking for ourselves, that’s all.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
And you are suggesting with that snark comment that some of us aren’t capable of thinking for themselves? This is one of the most educated basketball communities out there, what are you trying to say? We value rebounding much more than you. I think we are all thinking.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
I've bene on the rebounding differential warpath for years.
Renounding good. Rebounding NOT team defense of consequence where the Warriors still sorely lack. Team D concepts, rotations, actual man defens e(Dorell Wright hasn’t done jack there), etc. a complete mess. David Lee lets guys score on him all day.
And rebounding “as” defense is a complete joke. Limiting second chance points is good.
Run the numbers on the Warriors success there. That’d be interesting.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
The Warriors defense isn't good. We all get that. However when you have a great rebounding team it's hard to be too bad on defense.
We have a great rebounding team if healthy.
Monta’s our only lame rebounder who’s supposed to play big minutes.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
AS I SAID.
Rarely if ever on boards like this is “like I said” followed by anything intelligent or well supported. Modifying it slightly and screaming it in all-caps seems to bear no difference on the outcome.
You are taking anecdotal evidence and suggesting that it proves a conclusion. Perhaps you are so terribly, terribly confused as to believe that this is the case, but it isn’t.
Some of us are capable of thinking for ourselves, that’s all.
Some of us are capable of thinking. Try it. I realize it’s difficult, but it’s worth the effort.
I said rebounding was important. So what are you talking about?
Some seem pretty distracted by the interpersonal domination games.
I said having more rebounding is a good thing. Not sure why that’d be a point of contention now.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
You do realize it’s because the Knicks had Amare that they didn’t have a need for David Lee, right? They couldn’t pay for both of them, so they had to let him go. After all, they need enough cap room to get another superstar, and you can’t just pay two similar players $33 million. And yup, rebounding isn’t even a part of the equation when it comes to basketball. Don’t even know why people think it’s a part of basketball sarcasm
Don’t know why you think this Warrior’s team is so similar to last year’s Knicks’ team in respect to David Lee’s impact. It’s true that David Lee couldn’t carry a Knicks’ team (that completely sucked), but he isn’t being asked to do that this year. He has others sharing the load now. And if you don’t look at the numbers, then how can we argue against you? o.O. Oh, I guess you won. Wow, we sure got owned guys. I’m gonna root for the Knicks now because Amare helped carry the Suns and is now carrying the Knicks, unlike Lee a year ago.
by Prince.Charming on Nov 28, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
You mean "carrying" the Knicks with a few legit players like Fields and Felton
when Lee’s 2nd best player was Galinari at the 4.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
Dude, Amare would have carried them even without Fields and Felton!!! Lee still would have sucked with his 20 points and 10 rebounds!!! Right CC!?!?!??!?!?!
by Prince.Charming on Nov 28, 2010 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
You'd rather have Lee than Amar'e?
Funny…. Amar’e S&T wasn’t available to the Warriors……
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I just don’t like his salary. I’d take him over Lee if his salary was a couple million less. But since salary is important, I like Lee better.
by Prince.Charming on Dec 1, 2010 7:08 PM PST up reply actions
Amar'e is so much better than Lee I'll live with the salary IF I chave to pick one...
Neither’s my ideal core bigman though. Unfortunately, I see guys like Dejuan Blair who can be perfectly great frontline bigmen for great teams if the coaching is strong enough to maximize the good that’s already there in a talented young player. And then I cry when we throw $80 million at a soft fantasy stat monger like David Lee.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
$13.3 million a year is so much nicer to look at than $20 million a year. If the Warriors had Amare, I wouldn’t be so sure how the Warriors would be able to get any good reserves by the trade deadline/next offseason under the cap space. What the Warriors need right now is a good supporting cast on the bench. Then they would definitely be a top 10 team.
by Prince.Charming on Dec 1, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
...................
soft fantasy stat monger like David Lee.
by Only In Fairfax on Dec 2, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
Can't argue with solid gold like that amirite???
So stop trying. He’ll beast the Suns no doubt.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
by CC_ on Dec 2, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Derron Williams, after the Warriors victory: “[The Warriors] are a different team.”
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Right. Because Utah looked horrible before we beat them.
No, wait, they didn’t.
Huh. I guess they were good, then they sucked for that one game, and then they got good again.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yes they did. And after for a few games, too.
They got it together for their East Coast road games a bit after. Was a remarkable turnaround. They started really rusty. Not sure why. But now Al Jefferson and co. are raging under Sloan.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Your grasp on the facts is tenuous.
Before us they had a two-game win streak, including a win over OKC.
After us they had a five-game win streak, the second of which was the comeback over Miami. There was one game between us beating them and their east coast road trip. That win streak was broken by a loss to OKC.
It’s really pretty nonsensical to try to explain their hot streak as starting after our game. We beat them.
Losing to the Warriors was a real wake up call it seems.
Rightly so. I’m a lifelong Warriros fan but I’m also realistic/honest.
If someone claims the Warriros are a good defensive team this seaon, they’re not to be trusted. Saying they’re a good rebounding team in order to claim they’re a good defensive team is even more suspicious.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I love that excuse. When someone says something unpopular, stupid and incorrect, they say “I’m a realist” or “I’m just being honest.” BS.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
No, the word "unpopular" does not appear in that post.
The word “realist” does.
If you can’t keep your lies straight for even a single post, what’s the point?
It was unpopular because it was stupid and incorrect. It can be both, dude.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions
It's unpopular because id didn't say DWright was great.
He’s not great. Tonight’s game will be an interesting follow up to the horrendous TWolves “competition” some enjoyed far too much.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Whoever said that the Warriors are a good defensive team? I think everyone knows that we can never be in the top 10 of defensive stoppers in the league. But the Warriors played tremendously good defense against the Jazz. Every other game? Not really, but good enough to win some.
And I guess it really depends on your definition of defense. If you think of defense as just stopping a player from scoring, then yeah, the Warriors aren’t especially good at that. But if you think of defense as the whole second half of basketball, then rebounding is especially useful. So if you really want to break defense down, half of it consists of stopping a player and the other half consists of rebounding. According to your standards, I guess Lee plays 3/4 of the game. Unless you want to think that we should give up 28 defensive rebounds a game, I think you should just change your definition of defense in basketball.
by Prince.Charming on Nov 29, 2010 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
Good point.
Letting your opponent outscore you is good defense.
But seriously, let’s talk a bout good team D and such then. Warriors don’t play it and the top rebounding team in the league (Min) doesn’t play it either. So what is “it” ?
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Without defensive rebounding, the opponents would outscore the Warriors even more. Please review the previous couple of years.
Good team D? Sure. The Warriors are pretty bad at it with over-helping all the time and not defending 3 point shooters all that well. Gosh I wish we could be good rebounders and good defenders. But eh, at least now we have one of the requirements for defense. Umm, would you like to take out the 8 games that Lee was out? o.o. We were missing one of our top two best rebounders. And our answer to a back-up was Vlad. So yeah, our rebounding should look pretty bad at the moment. Here’s to hoping Amundson helps us big time.
What is “it” that you want? Are asking what defense is?
by Prince.Charming on Dec 1, 2010 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
EATING WORDS NOW!
9 3-Pointers in one game! W’s RECORD!!!
And he did it playing in control, within the flow of the game.
I’m sure by the end of the season Morrow will have better 3point numbers, but he’s nowhere near the athlete DWright is and therefore will never rebound as well, block shots as well, play D as well.
Morrow is plain and simple a spot of 3 shooter. Craig Hodges basically. A nice guy to have on a team, but certainly not good enough to start on a .500 + team.
Point to a single game Dorell's defense was good...
like the blocked shots here and there, which I mentioned, but point to a single defensive stand against an opponent’s top wing scorer.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
He held Kirilenko to 1 for 3 shooting. Not a top wing scorer, but owned Kirilenko.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Suuuuuuuuuuuure. Some of us actually watched that game. Kirilenko and Utah crapped on the floor.
Had nothing to do with the Warriors’ play.
But proceed with your contrarianism…
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
A good team like Utah doesn't crap on the floor like that. It was good defense.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
You're wrong. You didn't watch the game.
That game did not feature good Warriors D.
Watch the games.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I was at the game. Pretty sure I was watching.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
No dude, you didn’t watch the game. GSC was at it, the rest of us were in a game thread. Where were you? Nuff said, I rest my case, that’s what I thought. OWNED
shivers
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Daron Williams himself said the Warriors are a different team. The Jazz were impressed with our defense. Dorell and Lee played a big part in that.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I had 3rd row seats. I promise, Dorell played good defense. He has great length and is an aggressive defender who doesn’t foul much.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
You lie.
Be civil. This sort of comment provides nothing, not even any reference to what Naticus is supposedly lying about. I’ll leave this up only so you can see it, but will warn that this sort of comment void of anything other than an insult is not tolerated.
It's not an insult:
I saw the same game. Wright’s defense was not relevant to game outcome. I’ll be at tomorrow’s game and I’ll be sure to refer to my presence as undeniable proof that my take is infallible if that’s how it works.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Who are you to say his defense wasn't relevant to the games outcome?
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
I watched the game. He wasn't relevant.
cJ Miles had no problem working him when he was in the game (befor eMiles got a little banged up). And the Detroit game right after was also a lot of fun. He let all knids of wings run roughshod over him. Oh yeah David Lee played that game too, right?
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Restated: WAS relevant.
Wright’s D was a liability other teammates had to make up for. But mostly Utah just missed TON of open looks in that game. They’re shooting better now.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
It’s not an insult:
This is not an argument you are going to win, CC. You called someone else a liar. That’s insulting.
You did not qualify what you were saying he was lying about. Now it appears that your are ready to qualify that you are calling him a liar about Dorell’s defense. From context, no one could tell that. We could only tell that you were accusing someone else of blatant dishonesty. Perhaps in your loosely defined reality it was both clear that you were not referencing anything other than defense and by saying he was lying, you actually mean that his observation differed from yours, but in this reality, you did something quite different.
You have the right to disagree. But if you disagree, explain it. Your prose is lacking. I nor anyone else had a idea if you were calling him a liar about his seats or were disagreeing with him about his observation. It now seems it’s the latter; suggesting that someone else’s opinion is a lie is not behavior that will be tolerated.
Otherwise, you can and will find your posts removed. I am not telling you this to precipitate an argument with you. I am telling you this as point of fact. Be reasonable or expect to go away.
It was a lie.
Dorell Wright was late or absent on rotation switches constantly, he didn’t (and doesn’t) close out on shooters, he didn’t box out for rebounds (ACTUAL defensive rebounding work on either bucket, by the way- Troy Murphy can GET tons of rebounds but the way he gets them helps no one but his fantasy owners… much like David Lee!), Wright doesn’t keep men in front of him, he doesn’t move his feet as much as he swings his arms, and he let CJ Miles completely ABUSE him at numerous turns before he beat Miles up on a recovery going for a blocked shot after Miles beat him again.
So, yes, claiming Wright played good defense in that game is either 1. a lie or 2. wrong.
But given the effort put into the “I was there so I know better than you” take, I’m calling it a lie since it’s draped in a forum power struggle instead of a clear presentation of game events and etc.
Happy to simply call it wrong once it’s admitted as such.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
So, yes, claiming Wright played good defense in that game is either 1. a lie or 2. wrong.
There is a big difference between claiming that someone is lying and saying that someone is wrong. The former is a much, much more stabbing indictment of someone’s character. You should be much more careful with it. I do not know if you are still an adolescent learning about proper social behavior or merely post like one, but that sort of post will not be tolerated and will be removed.
by jae on Nov 30, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
CC_
and I’ll be sure to refer to my presence as undeniable proof that my take is infallible if that’s how it works.
You have been milking this passive/aggresive comment many times as if you were greatly offended. Now but you seem to have forgotten that it came about when you attacked another fan(Gov) for " not watching the game.
You’re wrong. You didn’t watch the game.
And he simply replied that he was “at the game” so he was pretty sure that he was watching it.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 30, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Stick to ball.
I’l be there tonight. I’ll post a report on Dorell’s defense. I expect him to be EXTREMELY focused tonight as a result of the attention paid him.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I’l be there tonight. I’ll post a report on Dorell’s defense. I expect him to be EXTREMELY focused tonight as a result of the attention paid him.
Basically you’re grasping for any bit of “credibility” to use as an end-all-be-all medium to boast your all-knowing opinions as “facts.” I don’t care if you are going to be at the game, anything you say will be largely ignored simply because of your clear vendetta against the combination of Curry, Wright, and Lee. A negative report is basically guaranteed regardless of how well they play defensively or how well they produce.
Criticism does not equal vendetta but whatever helps you bury your head in the sand...
is fine. Everyone is bracing for defeat already tonight but hoping for victory. The Warriors will never get past this all-too-familiar stage without a much different team composition. Finding some empty stat hounds and fan favorites is not enough even if it sells tickets and jerseys.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Criticism does not equal vendetta but whatever helps you bury your head in the sand…
Oh, but your arguments go beyond mere criticism. What you repeatedly fail to realize is that your “criticism” basically applies to every player on the team, yet you are intent on singling out specific players on these faults all while singing unwarranted and unsupported praise for others.
Case in point, your absolute insistence that Dorell is somehow the worst defensive player to ever suit up in a Warriors jersey while somehow Morrow miraculously became a better defender in New Jersey (hint: he hasn’t). Or should I bring up your bogus reasoning for your pro-Monta/anti-Curry stance? Both players are similar score-first/poor defensive guards, yet somehow and someway you claim that Monta is “better” simply because you think he has a “better all around game” (hint: he doesn’t).
Curry's team's worst defender right now. Lee second worst.
But you’re right, any one on the team can fit that role any given night. Terrible defensive team over all. I want them to improve faster so I’m being honest sooner. Others could learn a thing or two.
I tihnk Popovich will take another dive in Oakland for us tonight. He’s good like that.
Warriors win big.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I want them to improve faster so I’m being honest sooner.
Do you really believe that your comments here (or anywhere else) have any bearing at all on how the Warriors perform on the court?
I want them to improve as well, but have no illusions that my opinions spouted on this page or any other have that sort of awesome influence over the team’s immediate direction.
wow
and I thought I was a basshole
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
by wallywagon11 on Nov 29, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
No, genius. I do not. My buddy, who is a huge Jazz fan whose family is from Utah, bought those seats from his uncle who gets season tickets every year and sells them. My buddy’s wife didn’t really want to go, so Derek brought me instead, knowing that I am a huge Warriors fan. It was a blast. So no, I do not lie. I went to the game. Is it really that hard to believe that huge Warriors fans who post on GSoM would also attend games and occasionally get good seats? In fact, there were two of us at the game who peruse this forum.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Nope: I admit nothing!
Come on folks. You’re circling the wagons and immediately calling me a troll because my take isn’t all roses and candy canes? Seriously? Aren’t we better than this as Warriors fans?
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
You keep saying...watch games, yet you will not definitively say you have been watching games.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:15 PM PST up reply actions
Also
Since when has it been all roses and candy canes here? I’d say our fans on this site are pretty bloodthirsty when someone’s not doing a good job.
Yeah
I guess he missed all of last season when a fairly large portion of us was calling for Nellie’s head and demanding we trade Monta Ellis.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
CC
It is not that your take isnt all roses. It is your snarky trollish syntax when replying to someone who may disagree. But you know this and love the attention me thinks.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 30, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
Stick to ball.
DorellWright has significant problems. Nic Batum was just moved to the bench in PDX because We Matthews is even BETTER than that very good player (and Nic Batum is better than Dorell Wright).
But folks annoyed by legit criticism of any sort should just be annoyed instead of lashing out at fellow fans.
Do you like the Pixies?
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Stick to commenting on ESPN articles. Your attitude and level of analysis fits there perfectly.
It coulda been me, oh yeah it coulda been me.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 30, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
i think dwright will grow immensely this year
he’s a bright player and gets “it” quicker then most,
Trade Sabean...
Honestly cannot imagine why anyone here would be upset with DW on our team considering his cost, youth, size and production.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 28, 2010 11:59 AM PST reply actions
CC is a troll...most of the time.
Just go on his twitter, you’ll see what i mean.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
You should stick to serious basketball discussion instead of attacking other posters in the fan forum...
My criticism of Dorell Wright is accurate and seriously supported.
Discuss the points themselves instead of proposing this sort of ad hominem diversion please.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
It's not really a diversion.
It’s pointing out you trash every player on the team besides Monta on your twitter, and you appear to be a lunatic on there. Your website is called, joelacobsucks.com…
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
I thought you might have been exaggerating
but CC’s twitter is kind of lunatic-y.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
I like:
Ellis
Biedrins
Amundson
Adrien
Sometimes Reggie W.
Sometimes D.Wright
Sometimes B.Wright
Sometimes Jeremy Lin
Over half the roster in fact.
I hate:
Radmanovic
Gadzuric
D.Lee on that contract
Charlie Bell
Carney
Curry
Udoh
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Amundson, Lin, and BWright are cool with you, but no to D. Lee and Curry?
Care to expand?
by WestCoastWarrior on Nov 28, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
How do you not like Curry?
Is that even possible to be a Warrior fan right now and hate Curry? Curry is the least of our problems imo. And David Lee’s contract isn’t really horrible at all compared to other bad contracts and the effect he has on our team even when he’s not playing well.
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Owner: Joe Lacob, Peter Guber
GM: Kevin Prichard, Larry Riley
Coach: Brian Shaw
GSW the best team in 2K11!!!
..............SC30..............
Lots of folks in that group...
and the more idiotic turnovers and failed point guard moments e uncorks while calling his own number constantly and not defending at all, the more will join.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
idiotic turnovers and failed point guard moments e uncorks while calling his own number constantly and not defending at all
Sounds kinda like how Monta was last year (and is currently regressing back to in recent weeks), yet you seem quite fond of him considering you never criticize his play.
Um.... what?
Ellis has been money. Best PG the team has.
You’ll lose with the Curry vs. Ellis game if you’re siding with Curry. Better to just discuss them straight up and stop pitting teammates against each other like that.
Meanwhile, if you can get Iggy or Carmelo, screw Chucker Dorell proper.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Lol okay
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions
Ellis the PG> Curry the PG…..
Did you watch last season?
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Good luck with that.
Team has no true point guard.
Ellis the much better all around player, now at 5.1 APG to Curry’s 5.8.
Wish we’d drafted Jrue Holiday.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Yeah when one player plays 40 minutes, and the other 33, it’s hard to compare their assist totals like that.
And you wish we drafted a decent player instead of a likely future star?
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
Not quite, dude
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
So I guess you didn't watch last season?
Monta played the point guard position as bad as anyone has. It was Larry Hughes-ian.
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 2:24 AM PST up reply actions
Ellis the much better all around player, now at 5.1 APG to Curry’s 5.8.
These are per game numbers. Per game numbers, though widely cited by those pretending to know what they are talking about, are notoriously misleading. In 6 more minutes on the court, Ellis gets fewer assists.
Monta's scoring efficiency also much better than Curry.
etc.
And actually watching games, Monta’s WAY beyond Curry in every way. Curry’s three point shot can be money though. Monta’s is just solid now. Lots of improvement, he really worked hard before MArk Price arrived. You could tell second half last seaosn if you weren’t wrapped up in a Curry vs. Ellis vendetta.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Monta’s scoring efficiency also much better than Curry.
?
TS%, career / this season
Curry .569 / .571
Ellis .539 / .555
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 30, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
Ellis has been money.
“Money” the first two or three weeks into the season, but all before going back to forcing his offense and chucking bad shots. The latter is hardly “money.”
Best PG the team has.
How? You have yet to present any sort of significant evidence to support this.
You’ll lose with the Curry vs. Ellis game if you’re siding with Curry.
And why is that? Because your all-knowing opinion is that Ellis is the “better” player? Right…
Better to just discuss them straight up and stop pitting teammates against each other like that.
Who’s pitting teammates against each other? I’m criticizing your opinion of why you think Curry sucks with the fact that Ellis plays the exact same way, yet you are quick to defend Monta by boasting about a “better all around game” that doesn’t exist.
At this point it’s pretty clear that your boy-crush on certain players horribly impairs your ability to evaluate players objectively and correctly. All you’ve done so far is throw in some loaded arguments and heavily biased evaluations on players based entirely on who you like. And judging from your downright immature responses littered all over the thread, it’s basically pointless to have a discussion with you. Come back when you can actually construct a supported argument and participate in a conversation without resorting to trollish 4chan behavior.
Again, this guy doesn’t understand basketball. Ellis is the best PG the team has, huh? Ellis was horrendous last year as was his +/-. Curry made the team better last year on offense and was significantly better than Ellis on defense.
This year, perhaps Ellis has deserved to handle the ball more than Curry, but it’s close. Ellis has been excellent and seems to have turned the corner. But if you reject Curry and love Ellis based on the idea that Ellis is the best point guard, you’re a fool.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Why stop there with your logic CC !
Get Lebron, screw Dorell.
Get Howard, screw Beidris.
Get Pau Gasol screw Lee
Get Kobe screw Ellis.
Get Paul screw Curry.
Wow that was easy, I see your point……..you win!
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 29, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions
Why Kobe? Well… actually, with D. Wade’s poor play lately, I guess I’ll settle for Kobe.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
and he is playing with Lebron so both of them can't put up the same stats that they used to.
by freerandolph on Nov 29, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
D Wade's stats are still alright
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Why Kobe?
Ha, you are probably right. Perhaps I should have left out Lebron! No one seems to play well with him on the team lol.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 30, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
TBH, you're just a more vulgar, sometimes luny Atma.
Very similar writing styles on your blog and stuff.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
no one likes to have his/her personal posting past dug up during a basketball conversation
you of all people should know this
Goal: 8 seed!
It's in his sig line. It's fair game.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
My twitter is no problem. But I'm HERE to talk ball.
You want to talk about me, that’s fine and dandy. But your prob, not mine. I’m bringing cold hard facts. Folks are losing their cool.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I’m bringing cold hard facts.
I wouldn’t call subjective opinion “cold” or “hard,” much less a “fact.” And no, constantly acting like this guy doesn’t make you correct in any way. =P
I don’t know about that. I’m getting shivers and my temperature’s going up whenever I read his “facts” :o.
by Prince.Charming on Nov 28, 2010 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
I almost compared his facts to diarrhea
soft and warm
Superman can't survive the Dragon's stare.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 28, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah this the same guy
from Real GM I think. He hates all our players it seems like. You sure your a Warrior fan dude?
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Owner: Joe Lacob, Peter Guber
GM: Kevin Prichard, Larry Riley
Coach: Brian Shaw
GSW the best team in 2K11!!!
..............SC30..............
Doesn't matter
His views/bait is needed to keep overzealous fans in check. Tolerance and an open mind is required.
by Doctor Kajita on Nov 28, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Tolerance and an open mind is required.
Always true Doc.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 29, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
He hates Curry but loves Adrien/BWright/Amundson/RWilliams.
You lose any credit of having any semblance of competency
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
BTW
I love Morrow…But D.Wright is one of our best pickups we have had in years.
He is young, athletic, defsnive minded, and can shoot spot up threes.
The issue I do have with his game is that he should not be the person initiating the offense. This is NOT on him. This is on coach Smart.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I'm not sure it was on Smart more than we didn't really have any other options at that point.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 28, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
having ellis and curry out at the same time is on smart.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
At the macro level, I do not have too much problem with Smart not wanting to run Curry and Ellis into the ground.
To me, its more a symptom of our crappy bench. Lin is promising sure, but obviously still just a 3rd string guard. Reggie the Facilitator has failed, so we are left with just Ellis and Curry to run the offense.
I would like to see Riley bring in a ballhandling guard/wing so that we can afford to rest Curry and Ellis without giving the game away.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
Mike Singletary: Doing the same thing week in and week out expecting a different result.
by Badly Browned on Nov 29, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I'd like to see more games with DLee back
When DLee was out, it was obvious (and I think Smart even said so) he was looking for players to try to make up the scoring, rebounding, and passing that DLee brings to the box score. Thus more use of Dorell to facilitate, and the use of our scrub bigs to try to keep the rebounding edge, though Gadz and Adrien certainly have been getting better, and Vlad has been getting DNP-CD.
We got DLee back, and Dorell went right back to being the spot up shooter he is. It wasn’t just for the @MIN game either, in all our other games before DLee got hurt, I don’t particularly recall Dorell being used as a main cog on the offense as when DLee was out.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
Mike Singletary: Doing the same thing week in and week out expecting a different result.
by Badly Browned on Nov 29, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Is this what we have to look forward to this year?
False equivalencies like this?
Do we just ignore that these two players play different postitions? That they serve different roles on their teams? That the Warriors have the cheaper of the two players? And the younger? And has more NBA experience? I guess things like this don’t matter.
Also, just looking through the comments, the original poster makes some additional dubious comments like Dorell Wright is a poor defender, when opposing small forwards are shooting just .424 (eFG) against him. For reference, opposing shooting guards are shooting .496 (eFG) against Morrow.
There’s nothing about the fact that Morrow is primarily just a spot up shooter, and that he averages 1.2 Assists to 1.2 Turnovers (per 36) while Wright averages 2.9 Assists to 1.5 turnovers (per 36), so he’s twice as good there.
I’ve always really like Morrow, but this is an excellent example of how not to compare to players. Dorell Wright wasn’t brought in to replace Morrow, he was brought in to fill a void at small forward that this team has had since trading Jackson.
Also, let’s examine the other dubious claims made by the original poster: The Steph Curry vs. Monta Ellis debate. Monta is playing some fantastic basketball this year, but that is in large part do to Steph Curry being better at point guard this year. I’ve posted this before, but it’s always fun to repeat:
2007-08: aFG 45.4, TS 58.0
2008-09: aFG 32.5, TS 50.3
2009-10: aFG 35.7, TS 51.7
2010-11: aFG 43.4, TS 56.8
I know that correlation doesn’t always imply causation, but Ellis’s true shooting percentage seems pretty linked to how many of his shots are assisted, doesn’t it? You know what that means? He can’t create shots for himself, and needs a point guard to find him as he is cutting hard to the hoop and coming off screens. These numbers seem to imply that Curry (and probably also that “chucker” Dorrel Wright) are pretty good at that.
And how can we forget the OP’s claims about David Lee. We apparently can’t point to the fact that this team wins games when he is on the floor, because letting facts get in the way of a narrative is wrong. All Lee does is score points efficiently and create possessions with rebounding. He has done both of those things better than Stoudemire and Boozer, while playing similarly bad individual defense like those two, and is getting paid less this year. Yes, we had to give up some pieces to get him (an injured backup shooting guard, an injury prone backup center, and an injury prone, inconsistent, but still bright shining ball of potential who is currently a third string power forward) but I think it’s worth it to get a top line power forward.
If you want to call him a cheerleader, shouldn’t you place the blame on the Warriors negligent training staff? Because there’s nothing about the guys past that shows he is anything close to being injury prone.
Is there anything else I’m missing here? Because most of the arguments in this thread are weak at best.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
*Note: This post probably doesn't exist. The author of this post has to be dreaming. He's going to wake up and it's going to be November 1st again. Because there's no way that this really happening.*
by philthiest on Nov 29, 2010 1:10 AM PST reply actions 10 recs
True words philthiest.
The bottom line here in my mind is that (although anyone can of course argue that there are better players out there at all of our positions) we finally after 2 years have a starting “unit” of players that compliment each other rather that individual pieces floundering around trying to mack something happen on their own. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts for a change and the key→ Lee is not injury prone. As well we are set up with our expirings to improve…heck ,even our controversal draft pick looks to be part of an overall plan. Mad hops to Riley for this.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 29, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions
beautiful
He's a one-legged skateboarding card sharp who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a transdimensional belly-dancing cab driver from beyond the grave. They fight crime!
I didn't mention David Lee in the OP.
So will you bet that David Lee gets us the win against San Antonio? We just got outrebounded by 20 in Minnesota but won. And it was because of a hot night form 3 against a bad team.
Nellie Ball all over again. Excuses and rationalizations fail completely.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
No excuses, no rationalizations.
You seem to think that wins and losses are irrelevant to basketball:
Go ahead. Spout those irrelevant numbers Bob Fitzgerald and Ray Ridder cooked up for you about the team’s wins record with Lee in the first few games of the season.
And, once again, you create false equivalencies. Only an idiot would think that the Spurs are the same as the TWolves. The Spurs have been the best team in the NBA this young season and the Wolves have been one of the worst. However, one thing that the TWolves do well is rebound. Unfortunately, they don’t shoot, defend, or protect the ball well, which is why the Warriors beat them. If you honestly think this team is better without David Lee, then you’re a fool.
Also, you keep toting that “Curry sucks at point and Dorrel is a chucker” line, but you seem to have a pretty short memory when it comes to Monta’s A/TO ratio last year and how he had a pretty bad shooting percentage while taking the most shots per game in the NBA last year. Sounds an awful lot like a mindless chucker to me. And you don’t seem to have a comeback to me showing you that his shooting improvement this year is directly related to Curry running the point and Monta deferring ball handling responsibilities.
You probably also don’t have a comeback to things I haven’t mentioned, like the Warriors crumble when Dorell, Curry or Lee are on the bench, but play pretty much the same when Monta’s on the bench, and last year were a winning team with Monta out (http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2009-2010&mode=summary&sortnumber=20&sortorder=DESC&team=GSW, This year) .
But please, don’t let pesky things like facts get in the way of your brilliant narrative.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
*Note: This post probably doesn't exist. The author of this post has to be dreaming. He's going to wake up and it's going to be November 1st again. Because there's no way that this really happening.*
by philthiest on Nov 29, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Kinda like Vladi or Carney
weak rebounding, lots of wild shots.
He's a one-legged skateboarding card sharp who knows the secret of the alien invasion. She's a transdimensional belly-dancing cab driver from beyond the grave. They fight crime!
On the other hand, Vlad and Rodney seem to have a decent grasp on the concept of team…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 29, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
But please, don’t let pesky things like facts get in the way of your brilliant narrative.
This just about sums it up. Anyone who walks into a discussion with a love/hate list and wants to work from there is going to have a hard time being consistent and honest. It’s great that everyone here can bring their own observations and opinions, but if you don’t hold them loosely you’ll sometimes find yourself grasping at straws while you do your best to ignore any evidence to the contrary to your initial opinion.
Sorry, Minnesota game doesn't count if it's Lee's impact you're touting...
He was bad and the Wolves were worse. It’s anice story and the team DESPERATELY needed a positive spin point. But lets’ see how they fare vs. San Antonio before lapping up the Robert Rowell press releases, ’mkay?
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
Lee's impact came primarily through team ball movement and not playing Radman.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2010 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
Once again, you stick to your narrative ignoring those pesky facts
Sorry, Minnesota game doesn’t count if it’s Lee’s impact you’re touting…
I’m not touting Lee’s impact from one game. I’m looking at 17 games to see his impact. The 9 games where he’s played, you know, where the Warriors are 7-2, and the 8 games where he didn’t, if you weren’t paying attention, the Warriors were 1-7 in those games. Those numbers seem like a trend to me.
It’s anice story and the team DESPERATELY needed a positive spin point. But lets’ see how they fare vs. San Antonio before lapping up the Robert Rowell press releases, ’mkay?
Ah, right. The part of the argument where everything else you’ve said has been refuted by pesky things like evidence, or called out for being a logical fallacy, and all you have left to rely on is strawman arguments and paranoid delusions of grandeur.
@CC_Warriors Joe Lacob & co.
Robert Rowell made a call to @unstoppablebaby and offered free tickets for CC hatred tactics! #gsw #warriors
3 hours ago via web
@CC_Warriors Joe Lacob & co.
@unstoppablebaby wants to ban me for not saying the #gsw #warriors are a good defensive team.
3 hours ago via web
LOOK OUT ATMA, HE’S ONTO YOU!!!
You know, because Golden State of Mind has only had nice things to say about Rowell, et al.
Glad your came along to point out that this website was just here to shill for the Warriors front office.
See this? That’s not hype, PR spin, something that Fitz made up on his radio show or any thing off Robert Rowell’s press releases. That’s actual results from actual NBA games this year that says that, adjusted for competition, the Warriors starting 5 has been the 4th most effective 5 man unit in the NBA this year. Not bad, considering it includes “Dorrel the chucker,” “GQ Statpad Curry,” and an “80 million dollar cheerleader.”
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
*Note: This post probably doesn't exist. The author of this post has to be dreaming. He's going to wake up and it's going to be November 1st again. Because there's no way that this really happening.*
by philthiest on Nov 29, 2010 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Stick to ball then.
Folks started in on Poster Politics as soon as player criticism of any sort entered the fray here. That says it all.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
I tried sticking to ball
You made claims about certain players. I refuted them. You claimed I was sipping Robert Rowell’s Kool-Aid.
If you want to refute anything I’ve said about Curry, Monta, Wright or Lee, I’m all ears.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
*Note: This post probably doesn't exist. The author of this post has to be dreaming. He's going to wake up and it's going to be November 1st again. Because there's no way that this really happening.*
Oh but you're wrong about Lee still.
Touting that record is a bad idea.
I think the Warriors will win tonight. Pop likes to take dives in Oakland for some reason and Vegas likes the Warriros more and more.
But if your only counter is the Dubs record vs. all those loser teams before everyone found out the Dubs have no offensive plan besides the chuck and maybe the run sometimes, you’ll be short for sunshine this season.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
It's not just the record
It’s that the Warriors have played much better with Lee in. You see, David Lee is a much better player than Vladimir Radmanovic, Dan Gadzuric, Brandan Wright, or Jeff Adrien. When he’s on the floor, opposing defense have to respect him and his mid range jumper, so he can draw a big man out of the lane and open things up for Curry and Monta to penetrate. I’m surprised a brilliant basketball mind such as yourself hasn’t picked up on this. Furthermore, David Lee is a much better passer, especially from the high post, where he can feed Monta at what Monta does best, blowing by his man while cutting to the hoop. There’s a ton of evidence to back this up, namely that the Warriors offense is 10 points better per 100 possessions when Lee is in the game (albeit against lesser teams).
I think the Warriors will win tonight. Pop likes to take dives in Oakland for some reason and Vegas likes the Warriros more and more.
I see you’re donning the tin foil hat once again, without evidence to back you up. Pop and the Spurs have done quite well in Oakland, including winning their last 3. Also, the line for this game hasn’t moved much more than a half point in either direction.
Anyhow, I’m expecting a fun game. Both teams have a one man fast break that can finish well in traffic, and I always love watching Duncan, even if he isn’t quite the same player anymore. Also, I’m hoping to see Curry and Lee’s chemistry keep growing as the season moves on.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
*Note: This post probably doesn't exist. The author of this post has to be dreaming. He's going to wake up and it's going to be November 1st again. Because there's no way that this really happening.*
So will you bet that David Lee gets us the win against San Antonio?
Well we probably will not get a win in San Antonio so that would have to be a no.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 29, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Ha! Have to admit that I thought it was on the road, but as much as I think that it Is always possible for this team to beat anyone when we are hot and they are not, especially at home….but no, I would not actually bet “serious” money that we will win tonight considering how hot they are right now….but ya never know…this could kick off a “cool off” for them if we are hot. I doubt that you would really gamble your savings on that bet either.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 30, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
So as I was saying....
No? Nothing? Uh huh.
He’ll be fine against Phoenix maybe.
Give me Morrow and a legit point guard/coach tandem.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
OH CRAP! WE JUST LOST TO THE BEST TEAM IN THE NBA! ALL HAIL CC FOR BEING RIGHT ABOUT US!!!
by Prince.Charming on Dec 1, 2010 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, San Antonio game doesn't count if it's Lee's impact you're denying...
He was good and the Spurs were better. It’s anice story and a troll DESPERATELY needed a negative spin point. But lets’ see how they fare vs. Phoenix before lapping up the posts of a random dude on the internet, ’mkay?
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
*Note: This post probably doesn't exist. The author of this post has to be dreaming. He's going to wake up and it's going to be November 1st again. Because there's no way that this really happening.*
Can “no one likes you” be a reason for banning?
It coulda been me, oh yeah it coulda been me.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 1, 2010 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
But I had a better view from my TV. I thought he was good. OH I WENT THERE!
by Prince.Charming on Dec 2, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Okay, we’re being trolls now lol. Someone lock this thread or something haha.
by Prince.Charming on Dec 2, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Heh. Nice.
Simple as that.
http://twitter.com/#!/CC_Warriors
by CC_ on Dec 2, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Haven't been around much lately
after reading this post and the comments, kinda glad I was away.
I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.
Thanks for sharing that with us
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
Do you guys have a CC over at SacTown?
If not then you are welcome take to ours.
by Only In Fairfax on Dec 2, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Wright is worthless
Meaning you could find a player in the D League, or mediocre free agent to replace him, without noticing.
Which is to say, he’s a starter on a last place/bad team. And at the moment, he is.
Beidrins and Wright are the gapping holes in this team right now. If they had even above average replacements for those two, the Ws could contend.
by formerlythecity on Dec 5, 2010 10:51 PM PST reply actions
Well, that's just an exaggeration
He’s a good shotblocker for his position, a good rebounder, gets steals, is a good passer. Good 3 point shooter but bad scorer overall.
Wright is the worst starter. I agree that he’s a below average starter. I disagree about Biedrins though. He isn’t a great player or anything, but he isn’t in the “you must replace him” category. We’re alright with Biedrins. I still want to give Dorell more of a chance. Maybe the coach will catch on and limit his offense.
It coulda been me, oh yeah it coulda been me.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 5, 2010 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
Dorell seems to be ok value for his contract but agree that he is not quite starter material at even the lower 30% of the NBA “so far”. Expect him to develope his game untill we can somehow get “player X” which needs to be a top 10/all star SF wing. Dorell would be great back up depth at that position unless he has a consistant breakout at that position.
Somehow I donot see him turning into Rudy Gay, Granger or Igguadola.
by Only In Fairfax on Dec 6, 2010 12:49 PM PST reply actions
I think he’s fine as a starter, as long he plays within himself. He’s got great size, good composure and a great 3 point shot. His defense is good and with a little work, his FG% will get to where we want it. I’m pretty happy with him, all things considered. He’s never started before. Give him some time to put it all together. He’s simply inconsistent, but I think he’ll adjust.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
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