RECAP: Golden State Warriors 97, Detroit Pistons 102 - Sigh...
Well, that's that folks. Any hope/confidence that you had in this season can officially be thrown out the window. We lost to the PISTONS. THE FRIGGIN' PISTONS!
When you hear a coach say
"It’s done," [Kuester] said. "We’ve moved on."
About his turmoil with a player, he's either
A - Lying to the cameras to make the situation look better than it really is
or
B - Telling the truth about his relationship with said player, and said player is about to come back and tear it up.
Unfortunately for us, it was option B.
Look, I'm all for giving credit when credit is due, but a loss to THIS Pistons team should not happen. Forget both team's records - it's pretty clear that we have the advantage in every position except maybe the bench.
I can excuse the early sloppy play, but I can't excuse silly substitutions. Why in the world is this guy

- Coach Keith Smart needs to be able to coach these guys properly on the road. This might be one of those "get a spark with the new coach but go back to old habits" scenarios. I like what Coach Smart is doing, but it's not going to last long if there are losses like these.
- Vlad Rad - I think we all might feel the same on this.
- Biedrins - needs to play more? Man, that's weird to say after last year.
- We need to play better on the road.

This is an easy one - David Lee. Not necessarily for his performance (5-11 shooting, 11 points, 7 boards) but for his attitude.
I always enjoy reading his post game quotes - they demonstrate why we brought him in.
“We need to start to establish that identity on the road,” said forward David Lee, who had 11 points and seven rebounds. “We need to find a way and we just had too many careless mistakes. It seems like each guy out on the floor tonight made one careless mistake or so that led to an easy bucket by them or led to a missed opportunity for us.
“We need to forget this one and go into Toronto and get a victory.”
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FYI R Dizzle
The header says Utah Jazz 102 & not Detroit Pistons.
Back to read the recap now. lol
Maybe this is the slap in the face we needed
I said it in a fanshot, I would be ecstatic if the Warriors even sniffed close to .400 on the road this season, which puts us about 16-17 wins on the road. Heck, OKC lost to the Clips in LA earlier in the season. You can’t mess around and expect to win on the road.
Despite how poor both our offense and (4th qtr) defense was tonight, we still managed to be in a position to win tonight. The scapegoating is really getting out of hand, imo. Hamilton and Stuckey killed us last night, was Vlad the one guarding those two? We win as a team, and we lose as a team. What worries me is that our offense has yet to click this season. It surprised me how we managed to win against Memphis and Utah without any real offense, but last night it finally bit us in the rear. Lee really needs to find his offensive game, and we need to attack the rim more. We settle for too many jumpers.
Obviously, the bench is something to worry about, and something people are beating to death right now. Also, WTF was with the turnovers under the basket. Vlad had a terrible looking one yes, but even Beans had one himself.
In closing, god I hope Lou gets better soon. Hopefully, Lin gets the chance soon as well, we desperately need someone not named Curry who can handle the point.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
it's alright.
It’s just another loss. The important thing is they forget that game and be focused for the next against the Raptors (right?). They should not look at this loss a a back breaker.
Hey, the Celtics lost to the Cavs and won 5 straight. The Warriors can forget that game and lets focus on the next.
True, but Warriors Nation don’t have the Celtics’ recent history of success to calm our nerves. At the back of every Ws fan’s mind lurks the evil specter that, for all our surface improvements, we may actually still be a crappy team. A loss like this causes that specter to stir.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 8, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Imo
I don’t understand the hate on Smart based on his rotations so far. One person did not lose this game. If anything, Rip Hamilton and our inability to defend him did. Smart is still looking at combinations and figuring out who compliments each other. It’s not like we had a hot hand to ride. Also, Detroit is better than their record. Stuckey, Rip, Gordon and Villanueva are legitimate weapons. They were the better team yesterday
by bayareaballa on Nov 8, 2010 7:54 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Only gripe I have with Smart
Is trying to match up with Detroit’s small ball in the 4th. Rebounding is our biggest strength right now. Why give in to small ball?
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 8:01 AM PST up reply actions
Good point, I didn’t agree with that decision either. I would have liked to see more pick and roll, it seemed to be effective
by bayareaballa on Nov 8, 2010 9:33 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I think it might have been because they were hitting their shots with the small lineup
So perhaps Smart felt he was forced to react to the smaller lineup and give up some rebounding ability and guard the perimeter and not give them easy perimeter shots.
I hated that decision. Any decision that involves Vlad at the 5 is a bad decision, regardless of circumstances.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Totally agree
I had to put up with his inconsistency when he was up in Seattle and I just hated to see him play. I’m sure he was out there to space the floor for us on offense, but I didn’t see that working and didn’t understand why in remained in the game.
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Agreed on Vlad @ the 5.
Would rather see Lee at the 5 than Vlad.
seems to me that most of the good teams stick with their regular line-up
And force opposing teams to adjuts to them. This issue was at the core of Nellie’s success and failure. Sure, he might identify a mis-match or two, but most mis-matches are two-sided.
Same thing here..ok sure, your Center can’t cover VladRad outside. But Vlad is also pretty worthless on the other end. And now we don’t have a shot blocker on the floor either
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 8, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that why Vlad gets to play, because he compliments people a lot?
But seriously, there’s lots and lots of evidence Vlad isn’t a good player. He’s been doing it for years.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe Vlad compliments Smart and that’s why he keeps playing him. Kissing up to the boss is a time honored tradition in most endeavors.
by jae on Nov 8, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Complimenting the most important Warrior.
lol … Vlad just might be complimenting Smart the most by kissing * like you say. He’s definitely one of the favored players when it comes floor time.
I expected Stuckey to have a great game
Given his benching prior to this game I thought his insertion into the starting lineup was an audition for a trade to the Warriors. I’d take him. Riley, go for it.
Reggie, BWright...
expirings, draft picks. Depends on how deep a doghouse Stuckey is (was?) in Detroit. I include Reggie Williams in this discussion as it is clear that he’s not being used by Smart as he was last year and so far has not been near as valuable to the team.
So basically you’re advocating we trade for him so he can be a backup? I would think he’d have a lot more value to a team that sees him as a starter than a team that only wants him as a backup….
And I don’t see any reason to trade Brandan unless it involves either getting a worthwhile big man back, or including him in a package to get a pretty good player (like how we included Randolph to get David Lee)….
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
I would think he’d have a lot more value to a team that sees him as a starter than a team that only wants him as a backup….
Stuckey should be a backup. In his career he’s shown himself to be a fairly lousy shooter with limited range, a pedestrian passer for a point guard who does nothing particularly well. I certainly hope that the Warriors aren’t fooled into thinking that his performance against them, one that was well above what he normally does, would somehow signify something he could do regularly. Mark Portugal syndrome doesn’t tend to yield positive results.
I was very frustrated by yesterdays loss. Not a game we should be losing. Some of my frustrations:
Smart’s rotations. Why does Vlad get so much PT? He’s a pretty not good basketball player. On top of that – I dislike Vlad at the 3. I dislike seeing Vlad play PF more than I dislike seeing him play SF. I dislike seeing him play C much, much more than I dislike seeing him play PF. Why would you ever put him at C, Keith? I’ve now seen it multiple times, and I truly do not understand it. Second, I really don’t like the way Smart seems to play his backups all at one time. It’s much easier to hide a liability (not to name names or anything….Charlie Bell) with starters. When Steph, Dorell, Lee and Biedrins are out there, we can hide Charlie Bell and just let him sit around on offense and only take open 3’s (something he can do at an acceptable rate), and do his thing on D. When we’re playing Reggie, Vlad, Bell, and Carney together….I just don’t get it. You’re asking them all to do more than they’re capable of doing effectively. I forget the specifics of our rotations last night, just that as we’ve been doing, we definitely played the backups in a big group. I hate that strategy, and I think it’s been costly thus far. I’m already getting frustrateg with Smat, especially given what we saw out of him last year. I really hope Vlad is not this year’s Mikki Moore.
Monta is still trying to do too much. I’m worried about this. That’s not the role I want him in, it’s not the role he excels in, it’s not the best role for him for our team to win as many games as possible….I don’t want Monta creating off the dribble as often as he’s trying to, and I don’t want him among the league leaders in scoring. If he is, I think it means something has gone wrong and I think it will mean our team is not a real playoff contender. His performance thus far screams “regression towards the mean”. That he had a couple of good games to start the season off doesn’t necessarily mean we’re seeing a whole new player. That said, I am encouraged that a much higher percentage of his hoops are assisted on (if I’m reading it right, it’s at the highest point of his career?). He’s good off the ball. When he’s not getting those shots off the ball, though….we have better options. Lee and Curry, especially, with some shots for Dorell and Andris mixed in. I expect/hope for Monta’s scoring totals to go down some, which is fine.
Lee – I expected more on offense. I’m going to chalk it up to sample size fluke thus far, but a dude scoring as many points as he did last year as efficiently as he did has skills. Where did they go? I’d like to see him being more aggressive – like the move he put on Ben Wallace. More of that, please.
Dribble penetration – we’re still bad at stopping this. Honestly, I thought Biedrins was a one man wrecking crew while he was playing last night. He was our entire D because we were letting up dribble penetration at will, and it was basically 5 vs Biedrins….and what happened? Biedrins was challenging shots all over the place effectively AND cleaning up the glass at the same time. Awesome performance. And for those who think Biedrins can’t play D, I’d say either you didn’t watch last night, or you simply don’t know what you’re watching when it’s on. That said, the main point is we can do better at preventing dribble penetration, and we need to, especially when we aren’t forcing turnovers.
Bottom line, we should have won last night. Heck, a couple more shots fall, and we do win. That’s not enough, though – Detroit is a pretty bad team, if you want to see what a mid-20’s win team really looks like (since we’re much better than that), just look at them. They flat out aren’t good, and even on nights where we shoot poorly, even on the road we should win fairly often against teams like that.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 9:47 AM PST reply actions 8 recs
Rec'd, pretty much covered it there Barry.
Every time Vlad gets the ball in the corner I cringe so hard that my wife while passing by stops to confirm that I am not having a heart attack.
by Only In Fairfax on Nov 8, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Hahaha...
I used to do this when he played for the Sonics back when he had “potential.” Now he just is what he is… that being a 6’10" gunner who occasionally plays a decent game on offense and is a complete liability on defense.
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
i totally agree with the mass bench player usage.. why not slip em in one at a time...
start fairly early with one sub.. then go back the starter and put in another sub.. and so on… ya it makes no sense to have 4 bench scrubs and one starter in … $ &$ #^#!
and seeing monta play 44 mins in a LOSS is really really depressing…… not smart at all… and yes the other 4 starters should be totally eating up some of the points.. monta as a scoring leader in the nba is NOT good… not good… carney and bell need to take only lay ups , wide open ones at that..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Nov 8, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
and seeing monta play 44 mins in a LOSS is really really depressing…… not smart at all… and yes the other 4 starters should be totally eating up some of the points.. monta as a scoring leader in the nba is NOT good… not good… carney and bell need to take only lay ups , wide open ones at that..
We were in the game right until Curry’s miss in the last 15 seconds seconds. Monta is our best player right now, Curry and Lee need to step it up more, though I understand since Curry has been playing injured since the start of the season. Not sure why one should have a beef with this.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Curry should have passed on that last shot
His ankle’s messed up, and he was flanked with DWright and Williams, both open.
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 8, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
Hindsight
Curry had a good look, the defender gave him a ton of room.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
I liked it, we know Curry can shoot extremely well, so I won’t complain about any good look he gets from 3. I figure the best we could possibly do is a very small higher percentage shot, so oh well. I also thought the announcers said it was Williams and Monta?
Oh – another frustration. I’m already getting sick of Fitz and Barnett. Mostly Fitz. I did think it was hilarious when Fitz said that veteran refs don’t look at the restricted zone line at all, though, and when he asked Barnett, Barnett just ignored it and didn’t say anything (because it was a stupid thing to say)….
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
Poor Barnett
You can tell he is not comfortable sitting next to Bob. Fitz is just awkward. I’m so over him…
Fitz is an idot
Keep in mind that his job is to sell the fan on how great the Warriors are. If there is any positive light Fitz is supposed to harp on it and drive it into your brain. These are not exact quotes but his job is to say stuff like “Isn’t it great to see Vlad have a comeback game” and “Charlie Bell is a dangerous shooter from beyond the arc” and "Mike Dunleavy is the Savior the Warriors are looking for.
He is just doing his job, but he is also an idiot.
by Underhand Free-throw on Nov 8, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, it’s a combination, but I would really much rather have announcers who aren’t as dedicated to the “salesman” part of the job, and are more dedicated to the “being a quality broadcaster” portion of things.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'd rather Curry take that 3
Than Reggie or Wright.. He was in rhythm and it just missed
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
Curry
Curry is actually the one who is trying to do too much. It looks like he is the one regressing.
by illmaticwarrior on Nov 8, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Because of one bad shooting game? He still has over a 58% TS% on the year…
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
.582 TS, 20.0 pts / 8.2 ast / 1.7 stl / 3.9 tov (per 36).
Not terrible for a guy on a gimpy ankle. Rebounding is down, possibly due to the ankle thing, more likely just a SSS error. (I’m too worried, since he was pulling 6-7 per game in the preseason, and has on several occasions talked about his commitment on the glass).
I think Monta has played better through the first six games, but I don’t see much “regressing” from Steph. And it probably bears repeating, lest any of us feel tempted to perpetuate this tired “competition”: Monta and Steph’s performances are not zero sum.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 8, 2010 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
And just so we’re all clear, I’m not down on what Monta’s done so far or anything. He’s been excellent. I just don’t think he can keep that kind of performance up, and eventually some of the load he’s carrying will need to transition over to others, with the most obvious candidate for taking on a bigger load than he has thus far being Lee. I re-read my comment and it might have come across harsher on Monta than intended – definite praise for what he’s done, my worries are just about what he’ll do going forward if tries to keep doing as much as he has so far.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
when people say Monta is regressing to the mean, they mean he’s turning into the low-efficiency chucker that he was last year. Curry’s mean established last year is a high efficiency, elite 3 point shooter who can rebound is position very well and has some turnover problems.
I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 8, 2010 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Great post MB
I feel like we’ve been seeing these games the same way. I’m working on an early trends and observations article about the team as a whole, and you touched on a lot of the things that have been sticking out to me. I’ve been trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt as long as possible, but it’s getting to the point where it’s fair to start pointing this stuff out, despite the good record so far.
It's the +/- stat in only 6 games, but check out our starting 5
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22010&split=9&team=
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
It's only for two games for us...
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 8, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Ah, forgot about CUrry's injury
And it was 4 games we had that lineup btw.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
it’s 3 games total for us, right now which is why I haven’t been citing it. But go ahead, do the split for 5-player, GSW and then you can tell us what the second most productive 5 on the team is, too :)
Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.
Hmm
Assumed it was up to date.
Anyways, basically confirms what some of us were saying in the offseason. Our starting 5 is legit, but how much bench production did we give up putting together this starting 5?
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I’d give up bench production for a more productive starting lineup any day. Years of a team that was deep, largely because the lineup was comprised of 1 or 2 players who could legitimately start on a team that didn’t suck in a 9 man rotation with 7 guys who should be the second or third man off the bench did little for us.
MB did correctly identify part of the problem. We don’t have much depth (this should get better when Amundson comes back) but Smart’s insistence on playing most of the second unit as a unit really compounds the problem. Spelling one or two starters at a time is a better strategy than what Smart is doing.
I distinctly remember one shot from last night of Lee and Biedrins next to each other on the bench. I wish I had a photo of that – very symbolic of a failed strategy. At least one of them should be in the game at all times.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Lee + Beans on bench is not good.
Total agreement here. Lee & Beans should not be on the bench together for long stretches unless the Warriors on floor are just having a great run & Smart wants to keep riding the hot hands.
I don’t even think there’s an “unless” here. One of them needs to be in.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
What BB avoided mentioning
is that our second most productive 5 after those 3 games was Lin/Williams/Wright/Wright/Biedrins. Flukey, I know.
I honestly think it’s too early to tell how deep the bench really is. It’s not too early to say that up to this point, we are more affected by Smart’s perception of it than by the reality, no matter what it may be.
Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.
Prior posting leads to be believe you want to contort this to something about how Lin needs to see more time
I see that more as we have 2 starters out there with Wright, Williams, and Lin. Sort of showing how Smart’s use of playing the whole second unit as a problem.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Grr, hit enter before I wanted to.
Wanted to say it goes along with what Jae was saying about how Smart is putting out the entire second team as a unit.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, so do I. The key is which starters – and Biedrins should be one whenever possible. The other thing to note is that Biedrins + Brandan can be effective on the floor together.
That Lin pops up all the time in these is pretty annoying, and sometimes distracting. Since Smart doesn’t want to play him, I’d like to see newer more complete numbers to make the same points.
Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.
Ha
Except I think Smart actually does adjust. Recall Smart putting Monta on Stuckey (though maybe a bit late) or how we started attacking the basket more instead of shooting jumpers against Utah?
Singletary talks it, but game in and game out it’s the same ole’ game plan.
The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!
by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Smart's looking pretty bad.
Pretty much MB explains why above.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 8, 2010 1:41 PM PST reply actions
To mods: Alot of my posts are double posting so sorry for that. I'm not exactly sure why.
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 8, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah...
That happens sometimes, but it seems to happen to you more than most. You might want to file a bug report with SBN, to let them know what browser you are using and stuff like that so they can try to fix the problem. It’s no big deal though. Thanks.

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