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Around SBN: Why We're Skeptical Of LeBron James

RECAP #7: Golden State Warriors 109, Toronto Raptors 102 - I <3 Stephen Curry

Bridge-craptor_medium
Thanks for the updated pic Sleepy Freud!


 

The Warriors thoroughly outplayed the Raptors for the first 2.5 quarters. Then the Warriors did what makes it hard for them to win on the road, they fell apart with turnovers and missed layups compounded by fast break dunks and layups going the other way. From then on out, the Raptors gained some confidence, got some life back in their legs, and didn't go away easily.

But then...

Steph Curry.

Steph Curry.

Steph Curry.

He threw the Warriors on his back and said, "I'll win the game for us."

 

And so he did. 

Star-divide

Yea, Steph Curry was ridiculous in the 4th quarter. He scored 16 points in the 4th even after missing an easy layup. He killed Jarrett Jack who's supposed to be a good defender. He shot a set shot 3 over him, a stop and pop, and drove by him for layups. He finished with 34 points on 12-21 from the field (2-4 3's) and 8-8 from the line. Even though he had just 4 assists compared with 5 turnovers, he was fantastic in getting this team it's first win on the road.

Combine Steph with Monta's ridiculous line and you have quite a night from the backcourt. Monta ended with 28 points on 10-17 from the field and 7-9 from the line. His 6 turnovers were disappointing just as Steph's 5 were. They just have to take better care of the ball. Despite the turnovers, they combined for 62 points on 22-38 from the field. Wow.

As great as Steph Curry and Monta were and as satisfying as it is to get the first win on the road, everyone is worried about Monta. In a play late in the 4th quarter, he drove the baseline, went up for a shot, and the defenders hit his wrist/the ball/his hand, and he came down hard. He lay on the ground for about 10 minutes not moving. He eventually got up and walked gingerly off the court and headed straight to the locker room. It looked bad and after those kinds of plays, it's hard to not think he won't be out for at least two weeks.

Here's hoping that Monta recovers quickly and can come back. First Steph goes down for a couple games and now Monta. When that backcourt is together, it's one of the best in the league.

 

Monta-hurt_medium

The Warriors won on the road. The backcourt was helped by the 2 big men, David Lee and Andris Biedrins. They hit the boards and did a great job helping the Warriors get the rebounding edge for the night. The Warriors were also helped by a lack of talent on Toronto. Man, what happened to Jose Calderon and Leandro Barbosa? They fell off quick.

I wasn't sure how long it would take with this team to win on the road, but they accomplished it in the third road game. Even though it was against one of the worst teams in the league, they did it. Hopefully this is something they can build on. They can learn that the home team will turn it up a notch as the end of the game gets closer and closer. They can learn how to deal with adversity on the road. It's a step. A small step and we'll see if they can beat an inferior Knicks team on Wednesday at the Garden. Ronny Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike, and Anthony Randolph welcome their old team to the Big Apple while David Lee returns to the place he once called home. Lee faces the team that slapped him across the face this offseason - I expect a big game from him.

 

Wonder_medium_medium_medium

If it wasn't obvious already, Stephen Curry gets the Warrior Wonder.

91987_warriors_pistons_basketball_medium

 

 

And this is just a funny looking picture. Not funny that Lin got smacked across the face though.

I_medium

Poll
If you could have any player on the Raptors, who would it be?
Andrea Bargnani
470 votes
Amir Johnson
110 votes
Linas Kleiza
284 votes
DeMar DeRozan
419 votes
Jarrett Jack
195 votes
Nobody
452 votes
Other
57 votes

1987 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 301 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Stephen Curry.

good night

"Why is no one hugging me right now?!"

-Sergio Romo

by DoubleDeuce22 on Nov 8, 2010 8:33 PM PST reply actions  

Bargs isn’t even good enough to start for the Raptors. He’s getting 5 boards a night. Tonight, he got ONE board.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Bargnani has nine votes already? The “center” who pulled 1 total rebound tonight? Biedrins and Lee’s early dominance of the glass was a major part of the reason we had a lead for Steph to protect. I’ll take Jack at backup PG or Kleiza at backup SF.

Great recap, FJ, and thanks for posting my silly cartoon. A new mascot is born?

More importantly … thoughts and (secular) prayers for Monta. I’m hoping it’s just a lower back bruise — don’t even want to conjecture beyond that.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 8, 2010 8:47 PM PST reply actions  

dictionary.com says secular means “not pertaining to or connected with religion”.

by tandy on Nov 8, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

A secular prayer is an affirmation of good wishes sans fantasy.

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 8, 2010 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

then why not just say good wishes? lol.

What good is a prayer if you’re not praying to someone?

by Jayd92009 on Nov 9, 2010 12:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Who are you

praying to? What are you praying to? What/who do you think you’re praying to?

(OK, sorry. Back to the the upsidedown world as we know it today, where The Delusion is the accepted worldwide and necessary for getting elected in this country, and the living within all we can possibly “know” is strange and distrusted or at least mocked whether with malice or not….. sigh, i know, bad form, not the right forum for this. And now i’m the bad guy. wow, what a system.)

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 2:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe you’re the delusional one. Some of the greatest and most brilliant people in history believed in God. I do, and I’m significantly smarter than you, as is made evident by the fact that you think Bargs is good. heh heh

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:09 AM PST up reply actions  

OK

Whatever you say.

Let me just point out your faith in and of itself assumes god from the start, so there’s no debate possible, indeed it is the definition of blind…faith.

But i will say this. Any sense/awareness/knowledge of human psychology points out that anthropomorphically, us taking on this blind faith is a mechanism to cope.

Being born in one part of the world vs another decides for the most part (a bit less so these days as our world gets smaller) which “god” you believe in. Isn’t that a clue for ya?

Isn’t it obvious it’s a man made concept that on a deep level is just a mechanism to alleviate our very understandable human fears (i mean, it is a tough life, for even the most well of human beings, and we all are going to die, likely painful or in old age.)

Once it set in though, it set in with a vengence, and no, it doesn’t seem to me, in this case, to be bad form to explain to you that indeed your faith is just brainwashing.

Good night though, fellow human being who suffers and enjoys, hopefully more of the latter.

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 2:21 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

And as for Bargnani

I said he wasn’t all that, but that he was better and will be long term than DeRozan.

I’ve noticed secular folks are better, in general, at critical thinking and reading comprehension. (just messing with you now.)

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 2:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Bargs is trash. He has the benefits of a shooting guard, but he RUINS and DESTROYS any semblance of big man skills you can have on the floor when he’s in.

There are plenty of 2’s and 3’s that can do what Bargs does without taking up the spot where you should have a rebounder and defender. That’s why Toronto is absolute garbage. They couldn’t even win with Bosh, and Bosh is an excellent player.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Let me just point out your faith in and of itself assumes god from the start

No, it doesn’t. Why are you an expert on my faith? You’re the assuming one.

Being born in one part of the world vs another decides for the most part (a bit less so these days as our world gets smaller) which "god" you believe in.

True. But children in India, for example, have the same type of near-death experiences as everyone else in the world, children who have never heard of the Christian after life. Why are they seeing beings of light and family members come to greet them? Seems like quite a coincidence.

your faith is just brainwashing.

Actually, I decided for myself, without other people acting on me. I debated in my head, debated it with atheists, read and thought about it a great deal. In the end, it made more sense. Also, you are far from an expert on psychology, and, in fact, there are psychologists who believe in God. Very faithful and devout ones.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh boy

And the “near death experiences” with the same story all around the world of a “white light” tunnel etc, has been shown to be our brains all being the same biologically.

There is a spot on the brain you can actually touch to give people what they all ASSUMED was god or some passage to heaven or something else they’d been taught (and then used that to “validate” it.)

You think it makes more sense. Fine. I’m going to cut my losses, there’s no arguing with someone who is sure there’s a god.

I’m sure there isn’t, but, you know, EVERYTHING points to there not being one outside this human desire for there to be one, everything makes you think you’re using reason “with god in mind” but it’s just wishful thinking, on a deep deep level my man.

And while sure, in the pantheon of all time, with so many born into (so not much chance to get out) religion/faith in god(s) there are bound to be some brilliant folks who believe. No doubt. Of course. (and millions who HAD TO fake they believed, by the way…and still do.)

But if you really want to get into lists and stats that show how brilliance correlates with being secular, i’ll be glad to paste some for you.

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 2:43 AM PST up reply actions  

There is a spot on the brain you can actually touch to give people what they all ASSUMED was god or some passage to heaven or something else they’d been taught (and then used that to "validate" it.)

I’m aware of these studies, and I’m aware that the feeling/experience you get from touching certain parts of the brain simulates a religious experience. That still doesn’t explain beings of light and family members coming to greet children, when they were expecting to be reincarnated.

Did evolution produce that to help us survive? Please. Also, why are near-death experiences coherent? When a person is basically dead, their brain lacks oxygen, which should result in a big mess. Instead, it’s a life-changing experience that still seems real and coherent even in hindsight.

Not that I base everything on that, but it’s one thing that gives some credibility to Christian Judeo religion.

EVERYTHING points to there not being a God, huh? Well, those capital letters are REALLY convincing. Again, you are not an expert on everything and don’t come close. I’ll trust my own judgment and experience over your capital letters. Thanks.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Did evolution produce that to help us survive? Please. Also, why are near-death experiences coherent? When a person is basically dead, their brain lacks oxygen, which should result in a big mess. Instead, it’s a life-changing experience that still seems real and coherent even in hindsight.

Ah, the “god of the gaps.”

In other words, “We don’t understand it, therefore God.”

“We don’t understand eclipses. Therefore God.”
“We don’t understand earthquakes. Therefore God.”
As science has advanced, the question gets narrower and narrower:
“We don’t understand where people came from, therefore God.”
and now that we, largely, do:
“We don’t understand this tiny thing about evolution. Therefore God.”

Why the brain would have mechanisms which seem to serve no function other than to specifically trigger hallucinations near death is still a mystery. But the fact that we don’t currently understand it isn’t an argument for god, anymore than the fact that ancient societies didn’t understand the movement of the stars and planets was an argument for god.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Ah, the "god of the gaps."

LOL That’s a ridiculously cliched response to positive evidence of an afterlife. I’m not saying, “We don’t understand it, so it must be God!” I’m saying that when people have near-death experiences, it’s too coherent to be a hallucination and the content of that experience involves support for doctrines of Christianity and Judaism.

Hallucinations are rejected in hindsight, because they don’t make any sense. Near-death experiences, on the other hand, logically support basic religious doctrines.

This has nothing to do with “god of the gaps.”

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Hallucinations are rejected in hindsight, because they don’t make any sense. Near-death experiences, on the other hand, logically support basic religious doctrines.

You should talk to people who’ve used DMT recreationally, either directly or as part of an Ayahuasca experience.

Because they do not, as a group “reject” their experiences because they “don’t make sense.” I’m not talking about people on acid watching the walls melt. There is a lot of literature about the use of DMT, Mescaline, and Psilocybyn to create mystical experiences.

And if you actually read up on DMT (i mentioned it in my prior post for a reason) you’ll notice other things:

1) DMT produces a trip that has a lot in common with many “near-death experiences.” (In particularly, the sense of lifting up out of one’s body, the sense of being surrounded by other beings).

2) DMT is produced naturally by the human body for reasons that are not well understood, and it is released near death.

In other words, there’s substantial evidence to suggest that “near death experiences” are, fundamentally, a type of DMT trip.

Now, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t an afterlife. And there are good, interesting questions to ask about WHY our bodies would produce a powerful hallucenegenic drug and release it as death approaches.

But it does mean that you’re a living, breathing example of people who use god to explain things about which they’re ignorant. You’re in a rush to explain what these near-death experiences are and you haven’t even come close to reading all the science on the issue.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I don’t base my faith on near-death experiences, although I think near-death experiences are supportive of my beliefs. DMT trips are not coherent, by the way. Lifting out of your body and being surrounded by people isn’t a near-death experience. Read the actual accounts, and you know they’re not drug trips, whether produced by the body or not.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Everything we experience on any level is, fundamentally, a “drug trip.” Our whole conciousness is governed by chemicals that our brain releases. Is “God” responsible for this? Maybe, maybe not. But let’s not kid ourselves about the physical reality.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

That’s a massive oversimplification of what’s going on in our brains. It’s not a drug trip. There are controlled chemical reactions occurring and thoughts occurring on the quantum level.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Considering he wrote "fundamentally," i.e. describing it in the simpliest form

I wouldn’t get too worked up in whether he is overly simplifying it. Either way, the point still stands as is.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think it stands at all. To say our whole experience is a drug trip ignores what is actually occurring. For example, based on this “drug trip,” information is being passed from outside of ourselves, to our brains, processed, stored and recalled as needed. That’s pretty much the opposite of a drug trip. It’s like calling a complex computer program, like a CAD program, a random storm of electrical charges.

Drug trips, by definition, are a mess. What occurs in our brains and our experiences consist of an unimaginably organized and complex process.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I have zero clue where you are going with this

Our whole conciousness is governed by chemicals that our brain releases.

That’s the next sentence of what he said and shows pretty clearly what he meant by “drug trip” even if that is not how you would definine it. Seems to line up with yours pretty well.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

No, it doesn’t line up well. Not at all. To say that our brain is governed by chemicals is like saying our speech is governed by air (as sound travels over the air). It just misses the mark so completely.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s like calling a complex computer program, like a CAD program, a random storm of electrical charges.

Which is exactly what a computer program is (well, I might leave out the random part), until you overlay the human perception which allows us to make sense of it.

If you have a problem with saying our brain is governed by chemicals because it sounds too close to “drug trip,” fine. Go ahead and say “our brain is governed by quantum reactions.” It is essentially the same statement and is factually more accurate. Our brain (and everything else in the physical world, for that matter) is governed by the interaction of forces which, taken in sum, make up what we think of as conciousness.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Drug trips, by definition, are a mess.

No, they’re not.

And until you understand this point, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 7:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Ronaldinho is right. I looked up drig trip on Merriam-Webster and there’s not even a definition, let alone one pertaining to messiness.

by bradyk2 on Nov 10, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

You should read accounts of DMT trips -

- because it’s clear that you haven’t if you’re calling them “not coherent.”

I’ve read accounts of near-death experiences. I’ve also read accounts of DMT trips. There is a LOT of overlap. You are being dismissive of the effect of DMT without actually researching it – which I have to say is pretty typical of religious folks when faced with evidence that would tend to undercut their believes.

I’m not saying that you base your belief in near-death experiences. I’m saying that your conclusion that near-death experiences support your beliefs is based on a shoddy reading (or, in this case, non-reading) of the available scientific evidence

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

No, I have heard a first-hand account of a DMT trip. You’re just assuming that I haven’t done any research. DMT trips do not compare to near-death experiences. I’m aware there are overlaps, but the important thing is that near-death experiences are coherent, while DMT trips are not.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Ultimately, I think you're lying here.

Because I don’t see how you could objectively call one set of those experiences “coherent” and the other not.

Could you give a working definition of coherent?

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s even better to talk to people who have used it in a research protocol, preferably those who also have some understanding of other forms of ecstatic experience.

As usual, your points are understated, rather than overstated. :)

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 9, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

But if you really want to get into lists and stats that show how brilliance correlates with being secular, i’ll be glad to paste some for you.

As a side note, yes, it’s the Smart people that are secularists, is the story. Since Smart people tend to believe that story, they tend to be secularists. But they aren’t always. Seriously, I’m really smart. I know of brilliant people that are religious. Not only that, they are humble and decent people. I can’t often say the same for the brilliant secularists. They tend to be arrogant and/or jerks.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe this is because

It’s amazingly poignantly sad to see our world dominated by this stone age “thinking.” So we come off that way naturally to you because we aren’t believers, but we also do because it’s incredibly maddening as your beliefs are so, if you don’t believe them, silly.

(i’ve got to get a job with decent hours.)

“True. But children in India, for example, have the same type of near-death experiences as everyone else in the world, children who have never heard of the Christian after life. Why are they seeing beings of light and family members come to greet them? Seems like quite a coincidence.”

I’m less, sorry man, impressed with your brain now. I just said it. Our brains are the same all over the world, we just have slightly different takes on the same thing. This doesn’t prove that god is universal, quite the contrary, it proves that human psychology is the same, which makes sense.

Ever occurred to you that when we dream we go to recesses of our minds that relate to how vast our brain, built on a lifetime of input, is?

It’s all human psychology, man. There are deep seated reasons things pop up in our heads, mostly related to what we desire or are very close to. When we get old and lose our marbles we see a lot of this come back up to our consciousness again. It happens, but it doesn’t mean anything other than that, sorry that’s not romantic/as feel good for you as you’d like.

Kind of too easy, don’t you think? If that makes you convinced (and this makes me into a jerk for pointing it out) then well….secularists will always seem like jerks to you.

Could it be all of these things you point to as reasons you believe…..could it be that they’re all, quite easy to see this if you’re as smart as you say, related to the heavy organ in your head?

You see, the secular person is humble enough to know ahead that all his desires for meaning are meaningless. All we have is being good to each other because it’s better that way and all we can have is our short life with as much love and good stuff as we can. That’s enough to be a good person, it really is.

You and I are animal beings, small in the scope of things, here for a split second in cosmic time. We walk around with these brains. The brains make us see, hear, and think we see and hear things.

Good night. I hope you keep questioning your faith throughout life.

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 4:00 AM PST up reply actions  

[GSoM server nervously awaits the 378 posts that will follow this one…]

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 9, 2010 7:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey how about them Warriors?! Wooooo hoooo 5-2!

Golden State of Mind: Unstoppable Baby!

by Fantasy Junkie on Nov 9, 2010 8:31 AM PST up reply actions  

… and people say there’s no God… ;-)

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 9, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I’ve personally had this debate enough times with enough educated people, scientists and the like, that I don’t need it again. I’d be happy to talk about how much Bargnani sucks some more. :)

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

WHAAAAAT!?!

I kid I kid.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

What?
You see, the secular person is humble enough to know ahead that all his desires for meaning are meaningless. All we have is being good to each other because it’s better that way and all we can have is our short life with as much love and good stuff as we can.

That’s not humility, that’s arrogance. Your assumption that all meaning is meaningless assumes you have perfect knowledge of everything that happens in the universe. Which you clearly don’t! How can you say all meaning is meaningless? The statement you just produced essentially means nothing! So why did you say it in the first place?! Was it meant to be meaningful?!

Second, what is good? Or is the concept of morality relative as well?

We walk around with these brains. The brains make us see, hear, and think we see and hear things.

What’s your point? That just tells us how we process information, not why. Correlation does not equal causation.

I hope you keep questioning your faith throughout life.

I do everyday. Fortunately for me, that’s how my faith (and I assume, Naticus’ faith) have become stronger.

by ender2148 on Nov 11, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I nominate this for most entertaining post of the thread!

by jae on Nov 9, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I don’t get it. “Why are still playing radman you idiot?” What?

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously, I’m really Smart (as in Keith Smart) and he asked why you playing Vlad so much. I think.

by tandy on Nov 9, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

It would have made more sense if Skep didn’t insist on erroneously using the subject line as a “quote box”, a move that he seems to do reflexively to make his posts seem even more disjointed and confused than they need be.

by jae on Nov 9, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh. LOL. A’right, good one, Skep.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

To be fair . . .

You sound more like Jeremy Lin, sans all the crowd support.

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Nov 9, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Bigot

I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.

by Reverend_Randy on Nov 9, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

But children in India, for example, have the same type of near-death experiences as everyone else in the world, children who have never heard of the Christian after life. Why are they seeing beings of light and family members come to greet them? Seems like quite a coincidence.

This actually isn’t true. A friend of mine’s husband did an academic book on this. It turns out that the mystical experiences people have – be they conversion experiences, near-death experiences, etc – turn out to be incredibly influenced by the culture in which they’re immersed.

That being said, to the extent that they’re similar, that doesn’t actually argue for Christianity (after all, the notion of going to an afterlife where you get to spend time with your loved ones predates Christianity by thousands of years) or for the truth of the afterlife at all. It could be either that there is an afterlife, and Christianity is a dogma placed on top of real ystical experiences, or those experiences may merely be a characteristic hallucination associated with drugs released by the brain in anticipation of death. (eg, dimethyltryptamine).

There are lots of people who believe in god, and lot of smart people, too. Looking at smart people throughout history who believed in god is a bit misleading, however, since throughout history not believing in god was simply not an option.

I haven’t heard a logical argument for the existence of god that stands on its own two feet – which doesn’t mean that there isn’t a god, of course, just merely that attempts to prove his existence logically fail. In fact, most of the time when you have a smart athiest debating a smart believer (eg, the Sam Harris vs Andrew Sullivan debate on Sullivan’s blog a year or two ago) you end up with the believer saying words to the effect of “Those arguments are hard to tear down, but ultimately I believe anyway, and here’s why -”

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Sullivan/Harris was a good exchange.

“It could be… Christianity is a dogma placed on top of real mystical experiences…..”

One rule of thumb in the “mystical community” is “Priests are tied to beliefs – and will find reasons to disagree in support of their dogma. Mystics are tied to experiences – and will find ways in which their experiences are similar.” I’ve seen this borne out among Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Vedantists, and even some “pagans”.

 

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 9, 2010 9:14 AM PST up reply actions  

There are two levels of reality: the physical, sub-atomic level which (as we currently understand it) is governed by the four main forces (gravity, electromagnetism, strong nuclear, weak nuclear) and the perceptible level which is governed entirely by the human nervous system and the soft computer we call our brain (and which relies on human experience as an explanatory device). These two levels are completely distinct from each-other and yet both are entirely “real.” While the perceptible level owes it’s very existence to the physical level, there would be no physical world for us were it not for our perception. It would seem then that the perceptible level is more important, and thus we have no reason to doubt the existence of God, because it serves our purposes to use Him/it as a reference point for creation (see the last chapter of "The Life of Pi" by Yan Martel). However, upon further examination this analysis suggests that there is even less reason to believe in God if He/it does not make Himself/itself plainly evident to us. Our ability to perceive relies on our intact consciousness, so the argument that we will meet God after we die is clearly ridiculous. If we do not perceive God, and we will never experience God on the physical level (regardless of whether He/it actually exists or not) how can God exist for us? The whole notion of faith, the driving force behind nearly all organized religion, stands in direct opposition to this. I myself prefer logic, though I acknowledge that I will never know the truth.

gO duBBBzzzzZZZ!!!! bEst tEam EVARRRR!!!!

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

.which relies on human experience as an explanatory device.

More that the brain creates patterns out of sensory data, and allows us to describe those patterns as our experience, building upon the previously created patterns we call language and story to ascribe meaning to the raw experience itself.

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 9, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

He/it does not make Himself/itself plainly evident to us.

He’s pretty plainly evident to me and a lot of other intelligent and rational people. What makes you think you’re so special that God has to prove Himself to you, when you don’t want to make a single life change?

See, if God gives a sign, whenever people demand it, that proves God is easily controlled by man. If God is easily controlled by man, God is evil. This is what sign-seekers REALLY want, a manipulatable God.

In reality, Christianity and Judaism are based on the idea that you CAN see God in this life or angels or miracles. It’s based on history, e.g. the Gospels or the book of Jeremiah or Ezekiel.

For my part, I’ve tested this out, to see if God will give me enough to go on, which is what the scriptures say will occur for those who exercise faith. God proved Himself to be consistent with what is in the scriptures.

See, in Christianity, you put your faith on the line, when you act upon what you believe. If you didn’t get results, you would become disillusioned. The reason it’s hard to believe is because it’s scary to put your faith on the line. You don’t want to test God, because most of the time, you want to believe in God (there are exceptions to wanting to believe in God, of course).

But for those with some courage and hope, you can get powerful results from exercising faith. I have and millions of others have, so it is quite testable.

Henry Eyring, one of the great chemists of our time, (heard of the Eyring equation?) was asked how he could be religious and a scientists at the same time. His response: “I believe in my religion for the same reason I believe in science. It works.” That’s exactly right. It is testable and measurable in this life, not just the next.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

It is testable and measurable in this life

No, the effect that your believing has on your own perceptions is testable and measurable.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

That’s exactly right. It is testable and measurable in this life, not just the next.

Can you provide examples of the tests you’re talking about here?

That’s not a rhetorical question. I’m genuinely curious what you think is “testable” with religion.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, I’m not inclined to discuss the more important and more convincing experiences I’ve had. But the most basic test is to simply study the scriptures, ponder on them and ultimately pray about them. If you’re sincere, then God will provide a way to help you make some progress as a believer. I’ve heard of many miracles that occur using this simple test. Incredible ones, in some cases.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, you see, but there's a catch:

You see, that’s not a testable proposition.

Because you’ve set up an escape valve. The test works for everybody who is sincere, and the definition of sincerity is people who pass the test.

In any event, it doesn’t fly. There are plenty of people who have studied scripture hard, and not found god there. Furthermore, there are lots and lots of profound believers who have lost their faith.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Throw her in the ocean, if she doesn’t float, she’s not a witch!

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL

Is anyone else reminded of this? Is that the type of scientific method that goes on in your brain Naticus? What the heck is a Naticus, anyways?

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Exactly what I was thinking of!

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s actually much worse than just being sincere. You have to be willing to make changes. So we could run a scientific test, where you read scriptures and pray. My hypothesis is that nothing will happen.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m aware that culture influences near-death experiences. But the commonalities are what are relevant, e.g. the appearance of deceased relatives and beings of light.

I’m not saying this proves Christianity, but it certainly doesn’t support secularist beliefs, that’s for sure.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Why are they seeing beings of light and family members come to greet them? Seems like quite a coincidence

 we all share the same brain structure, whack us on the head and we all see things that aren’t there. You obviously aren’t a skateboarder :>)

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Again, hallucinations are incoherent. Drugs cause a cascade effect as do “whacks on the head,” and oxygen deprivation, all of which introduce a mess where there is otherwise order. Near-death experiences are not a mess, so they are unique. That is why we shouldn’t assume they are mere hallucinations.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Ok have you ever taken any hallucinogens? You can come to some amazingly profound revelations about your life, relationships, etc. It all depends on what kind of person you are but it comes off as pretty astoundingly ignorant what you are saying.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Again, hallucinations are incoherent. Drugs cause a cascade effect as do "whacks on the head," and oxygen deprivation, all of which introduce a mess where there is otherwise order … Near-death experiences are not a mess, so they are unique.

You do realize that a lot of those near death experiences you speak of are when people almost drowned to death and experienced oxygen deprivation right? Considering near death experiences are usually after some physical trauma, I highly doubt they are unique.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Ug I can't believe I dived into this train wreck of a conversation

As a practicing Catholic, I have absolutely zero interest in trying to prove the existence of a Creator to others or getting offended if someone thinks I am an idiot for believing in one. All I care about is living a moral life and remembering those in my family before me by carrying on some family traditions.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Sweet. Vlad sucks, huh?

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

If only all religious people were like you.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

best comment – and approach – ever.

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 9, 2010 11:52 AM PST up reply actions  

All I care about is living a moral life and remembering those in my family before me by carrying on some family traditions.

the only problem with that is the church was invented thousands of years ago in a time when we knew little about science so now it’s a big drag on the future of the human race to try and overcome that anchor of ignorance. The times the gospels were designed for don’t exist anymore. If a church was modern and flexible it might be quite usefull to control the destructive behavior of the masses but I’ve never seen one try that approach as they all have their self interest at the core of their reason for being. I guess buddhism is the most useful of the group but it seems to not flourish in the USA.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Is that what you got out of my comment?

 I got that you don’t care about it enough to question the church? What were you really trying to say then?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh really?

I’m sorry but when the f*ck was anyone talking about questioning the Church? They were talking about the existence of God and religion in general.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, I’m not trying to convince people I am not an idiot, and I’m not trying to convince people there is a God. I am 100% confident that no one will be convinced that there is a God, based on near-death experiences. I am 100% confident that some people look down on me and think they’re special, because I believe in GOd and they don’t. I can’t change that. But if some people who are on the fence read this, they might benefit a little.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

That’s fine but you shouldn’t spread disinformation about psychotropic substances to make your case.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

No, I look down on you because I think you're not honest and not very smart -

- and don’t understand stuff like “testable” and “coherent.”

I have friends who believe very strongly, who I respect even though I disagree with them. Some of them even share your particular variant of faith.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Again, hallucinations are incoherent. Drugs cause a cascade effect as do "whacks on the head," and oxygen deprivation, all of which introduce a mess where there is otherwise order.

You are completely, 100% wrong here. You’ve clearly had no direct experience with psychadelic drugs (which is reasonable) but you’ve also formed opinions without actually doing some real research (which is not).

To compare drugs to “whacks on the head” and “oxygen depravation” is ignorant.

It’s okay to be ignorant. There’s is a cottage industry in this country trying to keep people ignorant about drugs, so there’s a lot of misinformation. It’s not entirely your fault that you’ve bought into some of it.

But you need to actually know what you’re talking about if you want your opinions to carry any weight with anyone. And it’s clear that, when talking about some drugs, you don’t.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Drugs are directly comparable to oxygen deprivation and whacks on the head, in that a drug in itself, has no information or visions. Unless our brain is front-loaded to produce something coherent from a drug, a drug won’t produce any visions. A brain chemical that tends to produce religious feelings is a little like a brain chemical that produces laughter. Just because parts of the brain and certain chemicals cause laughter doesn’t mean that humor isn’t real and doesn’t exist.

If you use a drug to make me laugh, it won’t be funny in hindsight, and I can’t go around making others laugh. But if you tell me a good joke, I’ll believe it was funny in hindsight, too, and I can tell others, and it will make them laugh.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

won’t produce any COHERENT visions

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

So if someone takes some substance that could be called a drug, and it aids them in sitting in mediation and quiet introspection for hours and has profound realizations about their life, other people in their life, things that happened to them in the past, choices for their future, etc. and makes positive changes in their life based off that, none of that is valid or good because the drug in itself has no information or visions? That’s a pretty simplistic view to take.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I never said it wasn’t valid. Clearly, there is an association between unlocking our mind’s potential and certain states of mind, which can be facilitated by certain drugs. But the drug in itself is nothing. It’s the brain that is doing the work, the information and organization that already exists.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok well think of it this way

The drugs are a way for normal people to get there for brief periods of time without dedicating decades of their life meditating or becoming a yogi.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, to each his own.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

So maybe read up on it a bit before judging other people’s lifestyle choices. Probably just relying on a friend who tells you about some wacky trip he had shouldn’t be the basis for your entire analysis? You had one or several stupid friends. That does not mean every drug trip ever has been incoherent. That is why I asked you to stop spreading disinformation.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL I’m not judging them, genius. I just said, “To each his own,” meaning people can do what they want, and I’m not going to worry about it.

Also, the drug trips in question are incoherent, in that people know they were hallucinations in hindsight. I’m not saying they can’t be beneficial.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Well see the thing is I was talking about when you said that drug trips are incoherent. That is judging them. Saying that and then saying, well you guys can do whatever you want is still judging it if you stick to your blanket statement that drug trips are incoherent.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you need to look up the definition of the word incoherent.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

That people get insights out of drug trips is one thing. Having an experience on drugs that, as a whole, seems like a real memory, is a different thing all together.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

in·co·her·ent

Definition of INCOHERENT
: lacking coherence: as a : lacking cohesion : loose b : lacking orderly continuity, arrangement, or relevance : inconsistent c : lacking normal clarity or intelligibility in speech or thought
— in·co·her·ent·ly adverb
Examples of INCOHERENT

   1. The fever made her incoherent.
   2. He was very upset and practically incoherent after the accident.
   3. The memo is completely incoherent.

How does any of that relate to thinking a drug trip was a “real memory”? Maybe it makes sense to you but based off the definition of the word I’m having a hard time following you.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions  

He is saying

“drug trips” lead to hallucinations and visuallizing shit that ain’t real (he uses the term “incoherent” to basically say the “trip” is just not based on reality at all or can’t be confused with reality). Meanwhile, those who have had near death experiences experience something that is “coherent” or makes more sense or seems more life like or like it’s “real.” Essentially he is arguing that there is no way a near death experience is chemically based and must be based on something more.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

The only problem with that is that it is an inaccurate and overly simple way to portray potentially life changing (for good or bad) substances. It is very easy to dismiss drugs by characterizing the experience like that. But it is not so simple as you just see some trippy pink dragons flying around and that’s all that happens, which is what you guys make it sound like.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Ummmmmm

really?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL glad to see I am not the only one befuddled by this guy,

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Well I have about zero experience taking polysubstances or any other types of drugs

but pretty darn sure some hallucinations based on taking medicine (or heck just dreams or other stuff that happens to people) can come off pretty freaking real to people.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure but it is not like you just take a drug and then all of the sudden you are in Yellow Submarine. There can be more subtle aspects to it where you examine your life and have moments of profound introspection. That’s what tends to get lost when people talk about this. To people like you it is just a bunch of glue huffing teenagers seeing a purple octopus fly around their living room. I find it disrespectful, overly simple, and inaccurate to look at it like that.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:17 PM PST up reply actions  

meaning people can do what they want, and I’m not going to worry about it.

so now you’re all right with gay marriage?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve always been a’right with “gay marriages.” What I am not a’right with is a supposedly Democratic gov’t supporting “gay marriages.” Gay people can live together “as husband and wife” all they want. I don’t give a crap.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Or how about this? You eat a half eighth of shrooms or maybe something exotic like some 2C-B and experience it for yourself before you judge it?

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Sounds to me like you have a drug problem, you’re being so defensive. Ever go to substance abuse programs? They might help.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL not really I haven’t done a hallucinogen in years…about 3-4 years ago was the last time, and it was a blast. Good times with good friends that I will cherish forever, thank you very much.

I just hate it when people get on a soapbox and preach about drugs and it is pretty clear they know next to nothing about it.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 9, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

If you use a drug to make me laugh, it won’t be funny in hindsight, and I can’t go around making others laugh.

And, in addition to having no experience with drugs, you now reveal that you have no experience with humor.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: we all share the same brain structure

Have you read any of your own posts?!?!?

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Nov 9, 2010 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Being born in one part of the world vs another decides for the most part (a bit less so these days as our world gets smaller) which "god" you believe in. Isn’t that a clue for ya?

haha, you’d think that along with avalibility of modern science would do the trick?
   I guess after reflection it’s no dumber than being a warrior fan thru 35 years of no titles, the dubs are religion and the lakers are science :>)

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

the dubs are religion and the lakers are science

and the Raptors are…ignorance?

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

and the Raptors are…ignorance?

waiting for the comet of mercy to wipe them from the earth

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

The Rapture! Get it? Bwahaha!

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

The Rapture! Get it?

so god was a big ole comet that scared the crap out of some cavemen?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 2:59 PM PST up reply actions  

He was a burning bush, dummy! No wait! He was a half fish/half man named Gilgamesh that came from the sea! No wait, he was a floating, disembodied head/giant owl named Baphomet! No wait, he was a non-anthropomorphized figurative lotus that sprang forth from the void after 1,000,000,000,000,000 kalpas! Ah screw it!I can’t keep track anyomore…

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 9, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

very well said, Mr. Crisp

I’ve always wanted to see religious debate on this website (half-jokingly) and I couldn’t agree more with your thoughts about man’s dependence on religion as a self-inflicted coping mechanism. It makes me smile knowing that there are other intelligent people out there.

Being a Warriors fan is like cutting yourself... without the cutting

by DMJR on Nov 9, 2010 11:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Lying to yourself that you don’t need any help from religion is also a coping mechanism. Atheists have a high rate of suicide for a reason.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

man’s dependence on religion as a self-inflicted coping mechanism

[I have zero clue if the suicide rate thing is true or not but for arguements sake I will just assume it is here at this this moment.]

Considering he descriped religion as a copying mechanism, I don’t see how suicide rates would disprove what he said at all unless you think your information about suicide rates proves that we inherently as human beings seek out religion naturally as part of our creation. I don’t quite see how you can jump to that conclusion from this information.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 10, 2010 1:25 PM PST up reply actions  

My only point was to address the implied boast that atheists are stronger somehow.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, gotcha

Obviously there is the implication that those who are religious are inherently wrong in their beliefs but to be honest I can’t really read what he said as “atheists are stronger” but more of “religion is man made” and “atheists are right.” I dunno, maybe it could be read a lot of different ways.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 10, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

My only point was to address the implied boast that atheists are stronger somehow.

 Not stronger , just more perceptive. Strength has nothing to do with intelligence.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL we have to take a -2 STR penalty but we get but get +3 to PER and INT while rolling 2 extra attack dice against baseless and ignorant assumptions!

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

can you give me the THAC0

for a basketball thrown 20 feet at a suspended target? Is that a DEX or STR adjustment?

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 11, 2010 1:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, since we are the Warrior class the THAC0 is negative 10 and we get to choose between DEX and STR.

By the way I have no idea what happened to my Engrish skillz in that sentence “bet we get but get” lol oh well.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 11, 2010 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

we inherently as human beings seek out religion naturally as part of our creation.

I think there is pretty good evidence that we inherently seek explanations for uncategorized phenomena. Religion satisfies that need for some people. Still, as Ronaldinho noted somewhere in here, as the range of natural phenomena without an explanation shrinks, religion becomes less and less relevant for many people.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe you’re the delusional one. Some of the greatest and most brilliant people in history believed in God.

Before modern science there was a legitimate reason to believe in religion:people had no idea how fundamentally wrong their cosmologies were, and contesting them with hard science got you killed or sequestered from society for the rest of your life. Then Copernicus(posthumously) et. al.happened, and today the vast majority of scientists are agnostic or atheist. There are a few scientists out there that are religious, however. You should check out The Atheism Tapes by the BBC. It’s available on Netflix streaming, and provides some great food for thought on the topic. :)

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 9, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe you’re the delusional one. Some of the greatest and most brilliant people in history believed in God

I’m all for a good argument, but at least keep it a good argument. this is an absolutely horrible limb to go out on; some of the greatest and most brilliant people in history don’t believe in god, gods, godessess, etc.

To say what you said as a claim for god existing is like saying “some of the best basketball players wear Adidas, therefore Adidas are the best basketball shoe.” ummm….no.

by bradyk2 on Nov 10, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Not only that, but this is one of the fundamental misleading ways to argue:

It’s called the “argument from authority” – and it’s one of the most common ways people who can’t support their positions logically use to defend their positions.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 10, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s not really an argument from authority. Argument from authority relies upon people’s reputation instead of reality. People who are genuinely brilliant who are well informed believe in God. That’s more like an argument from credibility.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

This is getting silly

Are you willing to say that there are no people who are genuinely brilliant who are well informed and do not believe in God? If you are not willing to say that then what is the point of even mentioning your point in the first place?

The moment I see atheists say “brilliant people and scientists say there is no God” I tune out. It goes both ways Naticus.

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 10, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you willing to say that there are no people who are genuinely brilliant who are well informed and do not believe in God?

No. I’m merely saying that belief in God is a legitimate point of view. That is all.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

How are you defining legitimate? Just saying a lot of people believe in it? Or a lot of smart and important people believe in it? That’s fine, I don’t think anyone would argue that, clearly there are TONS of religious people around the world. But it kind of seems like you are arguing that religion is legitimately testable and observable.

See, in Christianity, you put your faith on the line, when you act upon what you believe. If you didn’t get results, you would become disillusioned. The reason it’s hard to believe is because it’s scary to put your faith on the line. You don’t want to test God, because most of the time, you want to believe in God (there are exceptions to wanting to believe in God, of course). But for those with some courage and hope, you can get powerful results from exercising faith. I have and millions of others have, so it is quite testable. Henry Eyring, one of the great chemists of our time, (heard of the Eyring equation?) was asked how he could be religious and a scientists at the same time. His response: "I believe in my religion for the same reason I believe in science. It works." That’s exactly right. It is testable and measurable in this life, not just the next.

Care to elaborate on that?

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's best analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 2:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't quite get the point of this

seems Naticus has already begun elaborating on this above where he said it. One can see where he was going there (there is really no mystery in what he was trying to say).

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 10, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Umm

To my knowledge he has not yet presented how the existence of god is observable and testable.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

To be fair, he did ask if we had heard of the Eyring equation though.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

He already gave you his answer. Are you are going to keep needling him over and over again? What's the point? He already tried to elaborate on it.

“It is testable and measurable in this life”
No, the effect that your believing has on your own perceptions is testable and measurable.
 
by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 11:47 AM PST

Well, I’m not inclined to discuss the more important and more convincing experiences I’ve had. But the most basic test is to simply study the scriptures, ponder on them and ultimately pray about them. If you’re sincere, then God will provide a way to help you make some progress as a believer. I’ve heard of many miracles that occur using this simple test. Incredible ones, in some cases.
 
by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:26 PM PST

And the thread goes on from there. I know you might say bullshit to his answer (like others did above) but what is the point of asking him to give an answer again? He also gave you one so why not just focus on his response he already gave?

You honestly think you are going to get a completely testable scientific theory in a basketball blog that proves whether there is a god?

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 10, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh

It was such a cop-out of an answer that I didn’t even realize that was his answer.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

You honestly think you are going to get a completely testable scientific theory in a basketball blog that proves whether there is a god?

I’d like to think so. I mean I can prove there’s a dog so why can’t they prove there’s a god if it really exists?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions  

To my knowledge he has not yet presented how the existence of god is observable and testable.

how about that contrail photographed in LA yesterday? That couldn’t happen without a god?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 10:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Haha

Yeah, you know what? I had a quesadilla not too long ago and the scorch marks on the tortilla looked like the virgin Mary! There is a god!

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 11, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions  

the scorch marks on the tortilla looked like the virgin Mary!

Haha, But that’s better than a virgin mary sporting tortilla shaped scorch marks :>)

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 11, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Ugh. And atheists say believers are intolerable.

Love the hypocrisy.

The scientific method hinges on the purpose of seeking out how the world irregardless of biases or perceptions—in other words, what is absolutely true. Isn’t even suggesting that there is absolute truth presuppose a standard or original source to set that truth in place?

by ender2148 on Nov 11, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Isn’t even suggesting that there is absolute truth presuppose a standard or original source to set that truth in place?

 It’s a work in progress. We don’t know all the answers today but we certainly know a lot more than those old guys who invented religions a few thousand years ago before computers and radio telescopes. Just because we don’t know the answers doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seek them out. Who other than the terminally
 un-inquisitive wants to read the same obsolete gospel over and over again?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 11, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree and disagree.
Just because we don’t know the answers doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seek them out.

Agreed. From my perspective, science not only compliments but confirms religious beliefs.

Disagree:

Who other than the terminally
 un-inquisitive wants to read the same obsolete gospel over and over again?

We live in an area of unprecedented technological and medical breakthroughs which have, over the last 250 years, dramatically improved the quality of living for the wealthiest countries. The world is coming together faster than ever before with the rise of cell phones, the Internet, and other modes of communication. And yet, 60% of the world is in poverty, there are 1 billion people in the world starving, our planet is dying a slow death every day, and in the last century, 203 million people have died because of war or oppression.

  • Saddam Hussein was responsible for the deaths of 1 million people and new mass graves are found every month.
  • Pol Pot was responsible for the deaths of nearly 2.3 million people in Cambodia.
  • Hitler was responsible for nearly 11 million deaths, about half of which were killed because of their Jewish beliefs.
  • King Leopold, II of Belgium is responsible for an estimated 15 million deaths in the Congo Free State (now Zaire).
  • Mao Zedong is responsible for upwards of 40 million deaths.
  • Joseph Stalin is responsible for the deaths of more than 50 million people. This number increases every year as new records of his brutality are found.

And that’s just in the last century.
(By the way, see a pattern?)

Man’s problems in the 21st century aren’t just technological or scientific, they’re moral and philosophical. And science, for all it’s ability to act as a constructive tool for bringing about the good, is just that, a tool, and not the arbiter of absolute truth. How we use it depends on our convictions of the world, which, if you really look further, are biased by by our own beliefs yet anything but relative and/or subjective.

But that’s okay, go ahead and tell me that the Gospel (or, for that matter, any sacred beliefs held by the world religions) is irrelevant. And I’ll show you a world ravaged by the arrogance, greed, and ambition of men who value power over conscience. For some thing so obsolete, it’s amazing how so many people still seem to screw it up, even after 2000-6000 years.

by ender2148 on Nov 14, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions  

And yet, 60% of the world is in poverty, there are 1 billion people in the world starving, our planet is dying a slow death every day, and in the last century, 203 million people have died because of war or oppression.

and still the catholic church can’t see the link between overpopulation and prohibition of efficient birth control.
 The problem with religions are they are too self interested to admit they have lost their relevancy to the realities of today’s world.We no longer need pie in the sky we need bread on earth today.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 14, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

We no longer need pie in the sky we need bread on earth today.

Here are some terms you need to look up: liberation theology, CEBs Rerum Novarum, distributism, Quadragesimo Anno, and Pacem in Terris.

Better yet, have a look at these links from the NY Times.

http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/the-other-catholic-church/

and

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/opinion/02kristof.html

And that’s just the Catholic Church getting their hands dirty (in the good way), to say nothing of other denominations or religions.

Check your facts before you overgeneralize or get cute with throwaway lines.

by ender2148 on Nov 14, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

that’s just the Catholic Church getting their hands dirty (in the good way

and makes my point that those folks do good works despite the church’s actions and not because of it. Take away their affiliation and they’d still be the same good people.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 17, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

thoughts and (secular) prayers for Monta. I’m hoping it’s just a lower back bruise — don’t even want to conjecture beyond that.

 tweaked backs can hurt like hell but get better in a pretty short time so hopefully it’s not too bad. The big danger is that the bigs now realize how to slow him down or stop him.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 8, 2010 11:23 PM PST up reply actions  

As in horsecollar tackling him before getting to the rim?

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Nov 8, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

As in horsecollar tackling him before getting to the rim?

 no, meet him at the rim and roof his shots.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 8, 2010 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Bargnani has nine votes already? The "center" who pulled 1 total rebound tonight?

I logged in specifically to talk trash about anyone that voted for Bargnani. Obviously Kleiza as a 3/undersized 4 fits the greatest need on the team, and is definitely better than Bargnani, but needs aside, DeRozen has the most upside. Either way, Bargnani sucks!

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 8, 2010 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I logged in specifically to talk trash about anyone that voted for Bargnani.

Haha. Yeah, I voted DeRozen, but I wouldn’t mind having Kleiza (he’d be like a good version of Vlad) or Jack on the roster right now.

by olympicmike on Nov 8, 2010 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

he’d be like a good version of Vlad

Ha, I found myself thinking last night that Vlad wants to be Kleiza when he grows up. On a related note, why did Smart go with Vlad at Center at the end of the game? I understand Biedrins couldn’t play because of the foul shooting, and Lee fouled out, but BWright played a GREAT game, and deserved to be in at the end. Maybe he was tired? I was really hoping that last game would be the last we’d ever see of Vlad, not so sure now.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m still not in the “Biedrins can’t play at the end of games because of FT shooting!” camp. Since when is it a bad thing to get into the bonus and get your opponents into foul trouble? Plus, even Biedrins FT’s aren’t exactly inefficient shots. You know what does become important at the end of the game when you have a lead, though? Rebounding and defense, two things Keith Smart apparently hates when the game is on the line.

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions  

We were already in the bonus, so they could have just fouled him and sent him to the line. Putting that much pressure on him to hit his foul shots doesn’t seem like the best way to build his confidence, and I think Smart recognized that. He also may have been a little worried about going into overtime and not having Lee or Andris available.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Maybe it even made sense in this particular situation, but I don’t buy it as a general strategy. As you pointed out, even if we didn’t go with Biedrins….we had that Brandan Wright guy around…

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I thought we waited too long to put Lee back in, but he did end up fouling out….sooooooo…….

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

And rather quickly, but I think it was a bit too long.

If he fouls out, so be it, but no sense in “saving” him.

by Spider Jerusalem on Nov 9, 2010 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I was yelling at my computer screen to put them (Lee and Biedrins) in for that exact reason around the 4 minute mark…

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I was yelling for anyone but Vlad.

I could do without ever seeing Radmanovic at C again.

by Spider Jerusalem on Nov 9, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I could do without ever seeing Radmanovic at C again.

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Nov 9, 2010 10:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Popavich used it against Shaq and Nellie used it as well at times. If it’s a close game, and you can get a new possession, definitely you ought to use it.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Except you’re adding fouls on to your team, and you’re creating an efficient shot for the other team. I’m still not a fan of the strategy. The guy has to be a really bad FT shooter for it to be a good one.

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

The guy has to be a really bad FT shooter for it to be a good one.

Yeah, like Biedrins.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

No, like worse than Biedrins. Over the last 5 years, Biedrins is a 54.5% FT shooter. Over the last 4, a 55.4% FT shooter. You have to use the last 3 (50.4%) before you find a sample where it’s no longer an efficient shot, and of course the reason for that is to more heavily weight his 25 injury plagued attempts from last year. Even if we accept the notion that for some reason he’s worse right now than he used to be, I don’t see a reason he can’t get back to the 56.5% shooter he was in a 3 year stretch from 2006-2007 to 2008-2009 (getting as high as 62%), which is solid efficiency and not the kind of shots you want to just give your opponents when you’re losing, especially as it puts your team closer to the bonus and racks up fouls on your players.

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

With Steph and Monta converting at the ridiculous efficiency they were last night, the strategy makes a bit more sense, particularly given that they were already in the bonus.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Ha, true, when you’re the Raptors, anything under 85% TS% is an improvement!

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

too logical

individual human behavior doesn’t invariably follow an orderly, predictable course. People go through physical and emotional break downs and don’t fully recover, and performance pressure can become difficult to overcome. Chris Dudley, a memorably bad foul shooter, was nearly elected OR governor, so a man doesn’t need to be defined by that motor skill.

Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)

by the.monk on Nov 9, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure what point you’re driving at…

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions  

You’re assuming Biedrins is as good as his career. It seems to me, after last year, there’s about a 50/50 chance Biedrins is absolutely horrible still, that he’ll shoot like last year. The pressure of the end of the game and everything riding on him can’t be helpful. If I were a coach, and I needed a miracle come back, I would be inclined to use hack a Biedrins. It’s a lot better than just letting the Dubs hold on to the ball and run time down or fouling Curry or D. Wright.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I've seen him shoot 3fta this year ...

… and none of them went it, but two of them looked like they could have gone in.

His form isn’t as ugly as it was last year.

I understand the fear of hack-a-beans, but he’s a valuable-enough player that we should actually wait until somebody does it to take him out of the game.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

His form isn’t as ugly as it was last year.

buts it very ugly for a guy who calls himself a basketball player. He should have been a punter, his kicking form looked pretty good when he knocked the speaker off the wall.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 9, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Do you understand the concepts of sample size and random variation at all? I don’t see how anyone who understands statistics would find this anything but ridiculous:

there’s about a 50/50 chance Biedrins is absolutely horrible still, that he’ll shoot like last year

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 7:06 AM PST up reply actions  

He was horrible last year, and he’s changed his form, so he’s not used to it. We’ve also observed that he didn’t do well under pressure last year at the FT line. My 50/50 suggestion is just a guess, but what I’m really saying is, I’m not terribly optimistic about his FT shooting.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

He set a record for bad FT shooting. That should tell us something. Furthermore, he’s now 0/5, as I suspected he might be at this point.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 10, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

He set a record for bad FT shooting.

Do you realize how ridiculously arbitrary this “record” is? He didn’t set a record if you want to look at it in a logical way – as in, who had the worst 25 FT stretch. There have been worse. Biedrins just happened to all come in one season where he didn’t shoot any other FT’s, a season we know he was hurt for. Yawn. Nothing to see here, move along. Sample size, it’s an important concept.

by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2010 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Large enough to show there was something seriously wrong. Some of my opinion on it was based on how badly he was missing. His FT looked awesomely bad. I suppose if there were a few more in and outs and fewer line drives, I would agree with the SSS argument. Not this time.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 11, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m still not in the "Biedrins can’t play at the end of games because of FT shooting!" camp.

Agreed. Not only is his defense and rebounding valuable, but he’s not going to improve his FT shooting unless he gets more opportunities in games. I don’t see any reason why he can’t get back to 50% from the line, if not better, but it’s not going to happen if he averages <.5FT/GM.

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 9, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

You don’t see any reason at all? Any? At all? That seems like an overly optomistic outlook to me. I think he deserves a shot (pun intended), but saying “I don’t see any reason why he can’t get back to 50% from the line, if not better,” is just as ridiculous as assuming he will shoot 16% again.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I mean, we’re talking about a sample size of 570 (2006-2007 to 2008-2009) compared to a sample size of 28. All this talk about Biedrins FT shooting is ridiculous. Find me a single example where a guy just all of a sudden lost 10, 20%+ off his FT percentage? It just doesn’t happen, and there’s no reason whatsoever to think a sample size of 28 is meaningful at all in the face of a sample of 570 telling us something else (especially since we know he was hurt last year)…..

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

(I can find some guys like Shaq/Wilt that had some fairly drastic swings in FT%, in decent sized samples, though unsurprisingly they bounced back in later seasons)

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, at his current pace he is on track to attempt about 35 freethrows this year. I think he’ll probably end up shooting more than that (I hope he does, anyway), but the 25FT sample size looks a bit more relevant in that context. The 16% is most likely attributable to injury (as the general rejuvenation of his game this season has revealed, he was clearly “not right” last year). Still…

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

My point was that if he’s left in late game situations where the Ws have the lead he’s going to get to the line more, and this will give him an opportunity to practice shooting FTs in game situations. The main reason his FT% will remain low, in my opinion, will be low sample size.

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 11, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually his shooting form seems much improved. He’s removed the pause in his shot, and actually seems to be at least attempting to place the ball less on his palm and more on his fingertips, creating a better arc on his shot with more rotation.

Of course, the other half of the equation is concentration, and he clearly is still extremely bad at this. In tonight’s game vs. the Bucks he clearly dribbled mid-shot when fouled to avoid going to the line. In my opinion this is all the more reason to put him on the line in real game situations. Have him shoot technical FTs even. Otherwise, he isn’t likely to ever average a double-double again, and his effectiveness will be extremely curtailed.

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 13, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually his shooting form seems much improved

haha, up to the level of a random non talented , non interested novice at the local school yard?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 14, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

OK you got me there...

:(

Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Nov 14, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed!

Bargs would be worthless for the Dubs and why on earth would we want to have DeRozan? He cannot bring the ball, lacks hoops IQ and is totally overrated as a defender. Only choice is Kleiza especially considering our roster.

"It really is a choice of whatever rotten fruit you fancy least." (Kelly Dwyer about NBA Franchise owner)

by TheGerman on Nov 9, 2010 1:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Voted Jarret Jack

Preferably in replacement of Bell.

Get better soon Monta (and Ekpe and Lou)!

The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!

by Badly Browned on Nov 8, 2010 8:48 PM PST reply actions  

samsies

Wow why are people voting for Bargnani??

This is Kristin Kreuk, now zip it. - GTTM

by disguy on Nov 8, 2010 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Belinelli Italian withdrawals.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Nov 8, 2010 11:28 PM PST up reply actions  

lin looks like he’s shooting free throws blindfolded, only andrea bargnani is the blindfold.

by bradyk2 on Nov 8, 2010 8:50 PM PST reply actions  

Jarret Jack

as a backup PG to Curry. Rosters aside, I’d also take Derozen.

by JustSomeName on Nov 8, 2010 8:52 PM PST reply actions  

Hopefully Monta will be ok.

And hopefully Smart stops playing Radmanovic. That lineup at the end of the 4th was atrocious.

by Spider Jerusalem on Nov 8, 2010 9:05 PM PST reply actions  

I picked Derozan

we need more potential on this roster. We traded it for David Lee.

I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.

by Reverend_Randy on Nov 8, 2010 9:09 PM PST reply actions  

Voted Jack. Backup PG is a need.

by belilaugh on Nov 8, 2010 9:14 PM PST reply actions  

Good night, sweet Monta

"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis

by ejdacanay on Nov 8, 2010 9:42 PM PST reply actions  

You can't be my big man

if you only get 6.0 reb/36. That’s Vlad-Rad esque.

I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.

by Reverend_Randy on Nov 8, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions  

That pic is epic

Cmon Monta be healthy… Please….

" Only build on positives , don't stack the negatives...Instead of criticizing , what was a positive?" - Donavin Darius

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Nov 8, 2010 10:22 PM PST reply actions  

At least the Knicks still suck, but only slightly less so.

Randolph is doing wonders for them thus far.

/Green Font.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Nov 8, 2010 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

If we are worried how a injury to Monta would affect our season it shows how his game has turned around from last season. Fingers crossed for you Monta.

by Only In Fairfax on Nov 8, 2010 10:31 PM PST reply actions  

i just hope hes ok and hopefully this doesnt affect him in the future.

by currysabeast on Nov 8, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

wow...how does bargs have so many votes

he’s aweful….

DeRozen on the other hand…very skilled…would be an excellent 6th man

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Nov 8, 2010 10:51 PM PST reply actions  

monta

i’m hoping it’s just a bad tweak and that he’ll be back sooner rather than later. i’m more worried that it will be something that will linger

by AJC3317 on Nov 8, 2010 11:09 PM PST reply actions  

For the poll question, I assumed it's asking who to take to add to the current squad.

Thus, I voted for Jarret Jack. Easily would be our best backup PG on the team.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Nov 8, 2010 11:28 PM PST reply actions  

Hey didn't the Raptors also net Julian Wright in a trade?

Why didn’t he play? The last time I saw him he had lots of potential. Seems like a good backup player…

by Jayd92009 on Nov 9, 2010 12:04 AM PST reply actions  

Poll question...

It’s early, but the poll question got me thinking that if Toronto is a seller at the deadline and there aren’t any better ways to use our expiring contracts, it might not be a bad idea swap an expiring for Jack or Barbosa if we are still looking thin in the backcourt, and in the playoff hunt. It’s not unreasonable to think they’d be looking to move one of Jack/Barbosa/Calderon with that much salary tied up at PG, and I don’t think anyone will be willing to take on Calderon’s deal now that he’s fallen out of favor.

Hopefully that won’t be the best deal available, but we could certainly do worse.

by olympicmike on Nov 9, 2010 12:07 AM PST reply actions  

They’d do well to pick up Vlad Rad as their new starting center, so he’s not just an expiring. heh heh

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d swap Vlad for Jack right now and not look back. The main benefit of trading him is that, you know, he doesn’t get to play for us anymore.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

How in the world is Bargnani not winning the poll

By far the most talented player of that bunch. Not saying that he’s not a little pansy when it comes to defending the paint, but he has proven to be one of the most skilled big men in the league and is only getting better. If only this version of Bargnani was on the We Believe team in lieu of Al Harrington…that would have been quite something.

Oh, and Steph Curry was nuts in the 4th quarter tonight. BABY FACED ASSASSIN (if you look it up in Wikipedia it actually lists him, LOL)

by Tom Huddlestone on Nov 9, 2010 1:24 AM PST reply actions  

Bargs SUCKS. He can’t rebound and can’t defend. HORRIBLE player. If you want an outside shooter, just take a swing player, not ruin your rebounding and interior defense on Bargs. Don’t you know what bigs are for?

Now, Nowitzki can do it all, though. So, yeah, he’s good. He’s a decent defender and rebounder.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 2:06 AM PST up reply actions  

By far the most talented player of that bunch.

This ‘talent’ of which you speak seems to have little or no value if it doesn’t translate to actual performance. For Bargs, it has not.

but he has proven to be one of the most skilled big men in the league and is only getting better.

This is false when you expand skills to mean more than “shoots the ball”. He does that reasonably (but not close to exceptionally) well, but that’s about it. He’s not a good passer. He doesn’t really handle the ball. You stated it youself that he’s a lousy defender. That’s an important skill. Bargs isn’t a lousy rebounder. He’s far, far worse than lousy, and for a big man, that’s about the most important skill you can have. There seem to be more good teams who get away with a strong rebounding, solid defender than get away with a weak rebounding, dirt poor defender in the post. The latter is a recipe for losing.

by jae on Nov 9, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, he’s one of the absolute worst players in the league.

I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.

by Reverend_Randy on Nov 9, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, regarding poll question

If we come back to this question in a few years, and most of you dissing even the thought of Bargnani being the choice, really laying it on thick…..if we come back to this question then, and indeed it IS Bargnani that not only was the right choice, but clearly so….will you then, the lot of you, admit maybe you don’t know what you’re talking about (more than you could imagine?)

I mean, that’s why i voted for Bargnani. Not because i think he’s “great” or anything. And i considered the question how it was asked, “who would you want,” and that didn’t say for just this year….so i took the question to mean what it said.

So, here’s their numbers. Try and put your biases and all cool, no reason opinions away while you ponder this one. And come back in a few years to see how your dime a dozen “better upside” DeRozan does. Not saying, again, that Bargnani is “all that.” But he is CLEARLY the better player now, and into the future, over DeRozan.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4129/career;_ylt=Akv.Z9fNUJtjxFlTeMoTWCVTPaB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4614/career;_ylt=Akv.Z9fNUJtjxFlTeMoTWCWkvLYF

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 1:26 AM PST reply actions  

OK, sorry, maybe a bit harsh

On my part. I just see a lot of opinions on here that seem based of who folks think is a cooler guy, who fits into preconceived notions, which is why Bargnani “not rebounding” seems to be such a huge thing.

Sure, he’s 7 ft and doesn’t board a lot for that size. But he shoots well from all over the floor, blocks shots and just is a big man, which can help more than many think, especially since he isn’t just a waste of space out there like some “just big” players.

They’re both young. Both will get better. But DeRozan has a lot of flaws to his game. He just isn’t a good outside shooter. That’s a red flag for swingmen. He doesn’t make up for it with all that great D, good, but not a force or anything, nothing special. He doesn’t stand out (his youth is his main thing, one HAS TO be betting on his really “finding it” these next couple of seasons to be the better player to have going forward over Bargnani.)

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 1:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh yeah

And added to all that, i meant to say as well, is that what DeRozan is there are many of, swingmen of that size who do what he does. There are few players like Bargnani.

So, thus my reaction to the majority of comments. Scoffing at the notion of picking the far better player when those scoffers’ choice deserves the scoff, if anything.

by supersugarCrisp on Nov 9, 2010 1:43 AM PST up reply actions  

There are few players like Bargnani

Um, that’s because they actually pay people to play basketball in the NBA

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

There are few players like Bargnani

Yup. Not many people that tall can be that incompetent at the skills an NBA big man needs for success. Dreadfully few players are less valuable than Bargs.

by jae on Nov 9, 2010 12:51 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah but for a fantasy team drafted for everything but rebounding

he is all kinds of fun

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see "clearly" better.

They both score with about the same efficiency over their careers.

I think Bargnani “looks” better to people because it’s so noticeable when he takes an opposing big outside and drives to the lane. But the problem is that he’s just not particularly good inside, which is where you want your big men to be good.

Incidentally, WP48 has DeRozan better both this year and last. I assume that’s because DeRozan rebounds his position well and Bargnani rebounds his position poorly, but really, you simply can’t win in the NBA when your bigs rebound as badly as Bargnani.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 9:07 AM PST up reply actions  

any update on monta

scariest fall ive seen in years. any update as of right now? im aware that he’s taken x-rays but have they been leaked yet? i woke up and checked first thing this morning

by dubious dubz on Nov 9, 2010 6:24 AM PST reply actions  

Wow, what a terrible post game thread. Arguments on religion and people trying to claim Bargnani is anything but a terrible, terrible basketball player? Please no.

On to my own thoughts. HOLY CRAP. I’m going to admit something: I haven’t seen the Raptors play in multiple years now. Honestly can’t remember the last time I cared enough to watch a game they were involved in. The holy crap comment? I knew Bargnani wasn’t very good, but my god, he’s so much worse than I thought. He might be the single worst player in the NBA. I’ve never seen an NBA player as bad defensively as he is, which is compounded so heavily by the fact that he’s a big man that rebounds like a PG. My god, he’s an absolute team destroying wreck out there. Anyone else see the play where one of our guards drove (probably Monta) and Bargnani, in help position with the responsibility of stopping the driver, turned his back to the ball and took two steps away from the hoop and out of ball handler’s path (leading to a wide open layup)? That was the single worst display of defense I’ve ever seen. In the last 3 years, his +/- has been -7.4, -6.5, +.2. In each of those seasons, the Raptors have been + with him off the court, and in two of the last 3, they’ve been heavily – with him on the court. God he’s horrible. So bad. I can’t get over this. He might as well spend his whole time spotting up in the corner (even when the Raptors are on D), because that’s the only thing he can do even adequately. But seriously, he’s a barely above average scorer (slightly above average volume and efficiency), and absolutely horrendous at every single other aspect of basketball. Worst rebounder in the NBA. Horrendously bad defender. Bad passer. Doesn’t create turnovers. Holy crap he’s bad at basketball. Also, he’s 25 and unlikely to improve in any substantial way. Ugh.

I voted for Derozan. 21 year old with that kind of potential? Yes please. He had a decent rookie season last year, and especially if he puts effort into D, he could be a pretty useful player. Just looking at this year and our current team needs, I think Jack would be the best choice. Kleiza could be helpful, too. I wouldn’t mind Reggie Evans, either, and if we’re ignoring contracts, I’d definitely take Amir Johnson. Not sure about his contract, though.

On to the game…the Raptors are a joke. Shouldn’t have even been close. A W is a W, though, so I’ll take it. I was much more happy with Smart all game long, until the very end. When the game is on the line, that’s when you’re going to go back to your bad habits, Smart? Really? Well, I’ll take the baby steps. Much better job with the subbing patterns earlier in the game. Who would have known that Brandan Wright can actually play a bit and help out if he gets minutes (sarcasm)? Well, let’s just thank Curry for overcoming Smart’s bad decisions at the end and getting us the W we deserved.

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 7:20 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Well, let’s just thank Curry for overcoming Smart’s bad decisions at the end and getting us the W we deserved.

Well except you know, Curry’s own bad decisions an inability to finish also played in part in TORs failed come back. Actually, seemed like the guys got plain complacent when they got the lead and unlike DET, TOR didn’t take advantage.

which is compounded so heavily by the fact that he’s a big man that rebounds like a PG.

Fun fact!

Bargnani / Radmanovic

tRB per36: 4.8 (5.9 career) / 6.6 (6.1 Career)

The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!

by Badly Browned on Nov 9, 2010 7:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, Curry did make some bad decisions (one handed passes, grrr!), and fail to finish a couple of times (dunk and layup come to mind), but when a guy scores 34 on 25 possessions, while racking up 5 boards, 4 assists, and 3 steals, I can easily overlook the few miscues. We were +13 with Curry on the floor. He was a big reason for our win.

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 7:37 AM PST up reply actions  

On a side note, Andris is playing really well. He’s having a huge positive impact on our team – we’re so much better with him in the game. More minutes for Andris, please!

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 7:37 AM PST up reply actions  

agreed

but he is the one who needs to make that happen. He has to stop those stupid ticky-tack fouls he keeps getting. For sure the refs hate him, but he can help himself by being more disciplined and not jumping out on the pick and roll at the top of the key or going over dude’s backs who have already gotten by him.

An improvement in his foul shooting would also help, but I don’t necessarily see that coming without some kind of minor miracle.

by walkerp on Nov 9, 2010 7:51 AM PST up reply actions  

Biedriens' foul shooting form seems to be better this year than last.

I’m a little worried that if a few don’t rattle home soon it’ll go to his head. I know he’s only taken 3, two of which looked like they might drop, but even still.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 9, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Vomit-mustard-yellow-on-the-Roaracle-court-colored-lining to our starting backcourt’s 62 points on 38 shots? 11 TO/7 AST. Ewwww.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 9, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

tRB per36: 4.8 (5.9 career) / 6.6 (6.1 Career)

Which is pretty damning when you consider that the first set of numbers were logged by a putative “NBA starting center,” where the second set were logged by a backup small forward whom most of GSoM considers the worst player on the team…

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 9, 2010 7:55 AM PST up reply actions  

also #1 draft pick in 2006

Possibly in the top 5 all-time worst #1 draft picks.

by walkerp on Nov 9, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions  

…but how do you really feel?

Loved this post, Barry, if only for the opportunity to see you get all worked up. :)

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 9, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah but what’s your opinion on Bargnani?

by belilaugh on Nov 9, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Arguments on religion and people trying to claim Bargnani is anything but a terrible, terrible basketball player? Please no.

ROFL I agree. This is a horrible thread.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL That was a big mistake.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s always funny to me when people try to back out of a good natured discussion by pretending they never wanted to have it in the first place.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions  

Bargnani sucks

and I’m Canadian. The poor, poor Raptors fans.

Man, I really hope Monta is okay, even more for his sake than for us. That guy is really starting to turn everything around with his life. This couldn’t come at a worse time. Let’s hope it is something minor. We’re pulling for you Monta!

by walkerp on Nov 9, 2010 7:35 AM PST reply actions  

Any news on Monta yet?

"You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"- Dirty Harry

by KD1 on Nov 9, 2010 9:10 AM PST reply actions  

Day to day

Great news

" Only build on positives , don't stack the negatives...Instead of criticizing , what was a positive?" - Donavin Darius

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Nov 9, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey this was my first Warriors game I got to watch this year

You guys got a good thing going with this team. I know the Raps suck and the Warriors shouldn’t have let them back in but hey you got the win.

And that cartoon up top is glorious

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 9, 2010 10:00 AM PST reply actions  

Steinmetz

MSteinmetzCSN Matt Steinmetz
After x-rays & CT scan, Monta Ellis with strained lower back. Listed as day-to-day. Will rejoin team later today in NY.

The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!

by Badly Browned on Nov 9, 2010 10:04 AM PST reply actions  

Bah, already a fanshot on it lol

The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!

by Badly Browned on Nov 9, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, day-to-day is good, I guess. Just hope it’s not now a chronically reoccurring injury.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Jarrett Jack or DeMar DeRozan

We need better perimeter defenders. Jack is the better defender. I like DeRozan’s size at the two, but the better defender is Jack even though he’s around the same height as Steph and Monta. Jack would immediately become the backup PG and put Reggie at the two. Jack, Monta and Curry are about the same height though. Heck, so is 6’ 6" Reggie. LOL.

"Go ahead. Make my day."

by callahan on Nov 9, 2010 10:29 AM PST reply actions  

I don’t quite understand how Reggie got listed to tall. They usually list guys right around their “in shoes” height at the combine, yet somehow Reggie came out multiple inches taller than that….

by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2010 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

LOL at pic

and great finish Dubz!…that is all

KeWzEe

by KewZee on Nov 9, 2010 1:15 PM PST reply actions  

AR isn't what everyone projected

So, looking ahead to tomorrow nights game, the Knicks are getting crushed in the second quarter and Randolph isn’t doing much. Lee is still finding his way here, but there is no doubt about his hustle, rebounding and basketball IQ. If Randolph can’t make it under D’Antoni or Nelson, I think we can safely say he was a bust. As such, I think we need to give Riley a bit of a break on the parts he gave up for Lee, maybe not the contract, but I am not sure we gave up as much as all the experts, especially Hollinger says we did.

by rock1860 on Nov 9, 2010 5:55 PM PST reply actions  

A bust? He was drafted in the middle of the 1st round. He wasn’t expected to be that good.

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 7:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Didn't you see how people responded to the Lee trade?

People on the blogs and the “experts” screamed about the deal, saying AR is going to be the next best thing. Idea was once he got away from Nelson he would blossom into a perennial all-star. Hollinger on ESPN projected over 21 PER. “Experts” said the AR trade was the key to the Knicks being one of the winners of the off-season and helped take the sting of losing LeBron away. Well, AR hasn’t lived up to billing and I think that Lee, though his stats aren’t what the Warriors projects, has had a very positive impact on the team. Not saying AR is a draft bust, though he was a mid-lottery pick, but he is a bust based on people’s expectations.

by rock1860 on Nov 10, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I kind of always wished I had an inside perspective on Randolph. He does a lot of good things when he plays, but he also appears to be the kind of player that will consistently make bad reads/decisions and not know where he’s supposed to be for plays and such. I’ve always wondered how true that is. He should be playing more….but I suspect there might be good reasons why he isn’t. One important thing to keep in mind – he just turned 21. He’s more than a year younger than Lin, more than a year and a half younger than Curry…..there’s still a lot of potential left there.

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

It just seems to me that neither his enthusiastic fans nor Randolph were particularly aware of the strengths and weaknesses of his game. The athleticism and the apparent skills that are rare (albeit not as exceptionally rare as some seem to say) in a guy that tall seemed to make people think that he should be a versatile “do it all” forward. Reality is that his versatility made him do many things poorly and only a couple of things well. Those things he did well are very valuable, but the “he’s the next KG” model was a best case/low probability bet. It was based on glimpses and workouts. Actual end results on the court at every level suggests a better model, one that’s got a better chance of panning out, is a Marcus Camby block/rebound machine. It also seems like it is not in his nature to reign himself in like that, even though that could make him into a very, very valuable player, more valuable than if he continues on the present trajectory of trying to to everything.

by jae on Nov 10, 2010 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Tiny sample size alert, but it’s interesting how sharply delineated what he does well and what he doesn’t do well have been so far this season.

Per 36 minutes
8.8 pts (.333 TS)
14.3 reb
2.7 blk
2.0 stl
2.7 tov
6.8 fouls

Sheesh, that’s like the Rudolf we know and love (and hate) on steroids. I suppose Knicks fans should be realized he’s crashing the glass, something he didn’t do in the preseason. But hopes that his game might “calm down” as he matured still seem fully unrealized.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 10, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Wow. Illuminating. Looking forward to seeing he and Brandan go head to head tonight….

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

6.8 fouls?

 did they let him return after fouling out cause they had no other players?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

it's his Per 36 Skeptic

I predict JT will never breathe through his nose.

by wallywagon11 on Nov 10, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Skep denies the existence of advanced statistics

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Skep denies the existence of advanced statistics

haha, like god they are all conjecture.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL no he got fouled out and then received an extra 0.8 fouls for his pouty sad-face.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 10, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL no he got fouled out and then received an extra 0.8 fouls for his pouty sad-face.

Haha, that’s double jeopardy isn’t it?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

His agent is in contact with the league. Randolph reported to have moved on to bitter angry-face.

"Golden State wins at home 85-78. Confused Warrior fans stay in seats awaiting final quarter." -John Hollinger's -best- only good analysis ever.

by The Wright Wrotation on Nov 11, 2010 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Jeremy Lin #2 and Monta #26? Nice.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Nov 9, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

look at spg

4 and 7 :)

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 9, 2010 7:08 PM PST reply actions  

I voted Jack but I remember being really high (next Vince Carter) on DeRozen before he had a disappointing season at USC. I’m glad ‘nobody’ is beating Bargnani. Just how bad are these Raptors? I’m starting to think they might be worse than the Wizards or T-Wolves.

go rowand

by lincypoo i wuv u on Nov 9, 2010 9:15 PM PST reply actions  

Why would anyone here not want reggie evans? Beast rebounder and decent defender. Is cheap and would be great of the bench. Also Calderon would be a nice backup for Curry. Would not mind making a move for them at all.

by Ivang101 on Nov 10, 2010 12:10 AM PST reply actions  

Brutal offensive player

more pressing needs on this team.

I believe that ghosts are like dogs. They just do things arbitrarily.

by Reverend_Randy on Nov 10, 2010 12:27 AM PST up reply actions  

i chose Bargnani

If he’s playing along side Andris he could be pretty okay. He’s pretty fragile to be center and probably the reason why he can’t rebound coz he just gets out muscled and out boxed by opposing big men. Put him on the PF spot though, with a center doing the dirty work, it’ll be much easier for him to grab boards with his 7’0’’ tall body.

Plus the guy scores 20ppg, although he will make 8-12 million dollars by 2014. But I’d take that. As long as he plays along side Biendrins and Lee. I’d take a trade for Barganani that does not involve Monta, Steph and Ekpe too. Frontcourt of Biendrins, Lee and Bargnani playing SF (which I think he’s capable off) looks pretty solid to me.

Again as long as Lee, Biendrins, Steph, Monta and Ekpe and a first round pick are not involved in the trade. I’d do this in a heartbeat.

My opinion. (i should better be ready for the ranting).

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 9:16 AM PST reply actions  

Put him on the PF spot though, with a center doing the dirty work, it’ll be much easier for him to grab boards with his 7’0’’ tall body.

All available evidence suggests that this is not true.

by jae on Nov 10, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

he gets 6 boards a game last season.

so, again, if my fantasy warriors team will have him at starting SF, 6 boards aint bad (with D.Lee and Beans grabbing most), and he will score a consistent 15-16ppg as the third option. He will cause match up problems for most smaller SF’s and maybe able to stretch the floor for David Lee in the post. I’d still take it. Heck I changed my mind. If Toronto will take Dorell (even though he’s playing really good and I like it), Brandan and a 1st round for him and a 2nd, I’ll do it right away.

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 9:31 AM PST up reply actions  

WHHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTTT? Dorell, Brandan and a 1st rounder for Bargnani?! Both Dorell and Brandan are far, far superior players to Bargnani!

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

i'll gamble on it.

Have Bargs on starting SF or Reggie at SF while Bargs getting 25-29 mins off the bench. As much as he sucks defensively (a point you gave that I completely agree) he will still pose match up problems for some big or small man. And I still get the 2nd rounder from Toronto. Which would probably be close to the 31st-35th pick.

yeah, i suck at being the GM do i? ha ha ha

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

He’s not even that good offensively. He can’t pass, and he doesn’t even score that much or that efficiently. A bit above average in each. Heck, I think he’d probably be a worse matchup against 3’s than 4’s – think of what Stephen Jackson did to Dirk in the playoffs. Since Bargnani is too soft to take those guys inside, I think he’d struggle with a quicker player getting into his face on the outside, much as Dirk did against us.

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

he gets 6 boards a game last season.
so, again, if my fantasy warriors team will have him at starting SF

He grabs 6 boards per36 (!) as a bigman. 6’6" Corey f’ing Maggette grabs more boards than 7’0" Bargs. That’s how horrible Bargs is at rebounding. Rebounding is all about hustle and grit, and Bargs has none of that. He’s not even a poor man’s Dirk, he’s just a poor player.

Bargs would look great inactive on the bench, that’s about it.

The San Francisco 49ers, inventing new ways to lose every week!

by Badly Browned on Nov 10, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

Bargnani has never scored 20 ppg in his life.

He’s pretty fragile to be center and probably the reason why he can’t rebound coz he just gets out muscled and out boxed by opposing big men.

Did you watch our game agains the Raptors? The reason he doesn’t rebound is because he’s the softest piece of crap the NBA has ever seen. He isn’t capable, and he doesn’t even try. When opponents drive the lane at him, he steps out of their way. When a shot goes up, he stands still. He does everything he can to avoid being useful.

Bargnani is a terrible, terrible player. Guys that can score at the volume and efficiency he does are a dime a dozen – you can find SG’s that can do what he does in the D-League without even trying, and heck, they’d still outrebound him! Add that to him being as bad defensively as it gets, that he’s the worst rebounder in the NBA, that he can’t pass, that he doesn’t create turnovers…..he’s a really freaking bad player. It’s not a coincidence the Raptors are worse when he’s on the court than when he’s on the bench.

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 9:29 AM PST up reply actions  

well yes.

but i will not take him as the 1st option but as a third and I think being a 3rd or 4th option on offense. On defense though, i stand corrected. i’d probably gamble on it still though on the fact that he’s just 25, and there might be a glimmer of hope that with some coaching he’ll develop a bit of defensive awareness. Again, as long as I keep those players I mentioned above (id give the draft pick too for him) I’d take him.

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

but i will not take him as the 1st option but as a third and I think being a 3rd or 4th option on offense

He makes a pretty good 13th option.

by jae on Nov 10, 2010 10:16 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

he's a consistent 16-might be 20ppg.

why not him be off the bench instead maybe?

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

He’s just soooooooooooooooo bad at every other aspect of basketball. Scoring points is great, and all, but he doesn’t even score that many and doesn’t even do it that efficiently that it just doesn’t make up for his other shortcomings….

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

i concede.

i would still gamble on him though. but your points sir missing barry really makes sense so i concede.

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Ha yay I won the internet! :)

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

On a more serious note, don’t worry, we’re all wrong from time to time. Heck, given how many comments I make on this site, I’m probably wrong as often as anyone. ;)

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m probably wrong as often as anyone

You’re wrong. ;-)

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 10, 2010 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m probably wrong as often as anyone. ;)

You’re not even in the top 10.

by jae on Nov 10, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

he’s a consistent 16-might be 20ppg.
why not him be off the bench instead maybe?

Evaluating a player by ppg is a relatively poor way to rate a player even if it’s what the majority of fans and media (and in many cases coaches and GMs) do. I’m concerned as much with the points he allows the opposition to score as the points he scores himself. Not rebounding means he doesn’t close out defensive stops. Not passing means he’s not facilitating the offense of his teammates. He has historically made his team worse, much worse when he’s played than when he’s been on the bench.

I don’t want him “off the bench”. If he’s on my team, I want him on the bench, preferably wearing a suit and tie so there’s no chance that the coach will lose his marbles and actually stick him in the game.

by jae on Nov 10, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions  

but he can have a role as a scorer off the bench

like Al Harrington. He’s not that good defensively, does not rebound much and shoots a lot. But a good 15-16ppg off the bench when a team needs an offensive lift in the second unit. That can be his role. I understand the hate for Bargnani though.

by Yoki R on Nov 10, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Harrington doesn’t rebound well. Bargnani is in another class of pathetic far below Harrington. Harrington isn’t a defensive stopper. Bargnani is in another class of pathetic on defense.

I’m not a fan of Harrington either. Suggesting someone’s upside is to be a lower grade Harrington is damning him with faint praise.

by jae on Nov 10, 2010 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus the guy scores 20ppg, although he will make 8-12 million dollars by 2014.

It’s not at all clear that Bargnani would still be an effective offensive player if he was guarded by players who took away the one advantage he has over bigs – his mobility.

He’s got great mobility and handles for a big man. For a swingman? Not so much.

by Ronaldinho on Nov 10, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Sits and shakes head at the content in this thread.....

So people can have posts deleted for someone calling someone else an idiot, yet others are allowed to throw abuse at other posters because of their ‘background’ through to this monster number of posts on religious beliefs and drugs that have absolutely ZERO to do with the Warriors…

Seriously….. WTF is going on here????

Its a new dawn...its a new day...its a new owner ....for us!!!!! and I'm FEELING GOOD!!!!!!

by BritWarriorGSW on Nov 10, 2010 10:46 AM PST reply actions  

Seriously….. WTF is going on here????

 A chemical reaction. Do we have to go thru it all over again?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 10, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Nice ( ;

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Nov 10, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

rec'd

Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.

by Rasputin10 on Nov 11, 2010 2:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I can't speak for everyone...

but I pushed the ignore button on this thread a while ago. Just came back by mistake. No way I’m getting into this discussion.

by olympicmike on Nov 13, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions  

. No way I’m getting into this discussion.

no sense of adventure huh?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 13, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

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