Recap #54: Warriors 89, Jazz 100 - Block party
by dj fuzzylogic on Feb 20, 2010 5:36 AM PST
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PrintOriginally posted Feb 19, 2010 11:42 PM PST
(The new "breakdancing" defensive stance sweeping the NBA)
Midway through the 3rd quarter with the Warriors down by 20, Monta Ellis swooped to the hoop for what would be an easy lay-in. The ball rattled in and out of the hoop, but for some reason the ball popped loose amidst 4 Jazz players and Monta managed to corral it in for an uncontested Jumper. Like his lay-up, the ball rattled in and out.
From jump, the ball never seemed to bounce the right way. Or maybe the Warriors were never in the right position (probably). The ball always seem to find its way into a Jazz player's hands either off a missed (Warrior or Jazz) shot, a ricocheted/deflected pass, or off Warriors lay-up attempts. On offense, they looked like the Warriors the other night when they played the Kings; there were tons of easy buckets in transition, constantly clear passing lanes for open jumpers, and an abundance of high percentage shots in the paint. On defense, the Jazz took away everything that the Warriors rely on which forced a not very good jump shooting team (Warriors) into shooting jump shots all night. The Jazz did their research.
But it's pretty simple, the Jazz outhustled, outmuscled, and outplayed the Warriors in every which way possible. From Ronnie Price swooping in over Chris Hunter for an OFFENSIVE rebound to Ronnie Price blocking CJ Watson on a breakaway layup... this is Ronnie f*$$%$#%& Price people!
Preview/ Gamethread: Thank Goodness for New Born Babies and Ronnie Brewer
Warriors Game Day Links: Golden State Warriors 89 vs Utah Jazz 100 - Out of our league
The game followed the usual script of when the Warriors play a Good Team. The Warrior stayed competitive for one quarter. Then the Good Team, in this case the Jazz, begins playing for reals.
And that's precisely what happened. It wasn't that they just played for reals, they were just a better-coached and better team tonight (and possibly every night). A 31-10 scoring differential between the Jazz and Warriors in the second quarter pretty much says it all for how awful it got and fast. In a three minute span to start the quarter, the Jazz outscored the Warriors 13-0 and an 8-3 Warriors run by the end of the quarter cut the lead to 17.
(Kirilenko and Watson perform what looks to be a synchornized dance routine...are we at the ice capades?)
The Jazz closed off driving lanes and Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber clone, Andre Kirilenko, played the goalie sending back multiple layups from almost everyone that tried to get in there (3 blocks). Everyone got into passing lanes, deflecting passes to their own teammates to jump start fast breaks or playing free-safety getting into the passing lanes as what I supposed from my angle of the game sitting on my couch, were telegraphed passes from Warriors.
The Warriors rarely got out into the open court, but when they did, there was at least 4 Jazz players already waiting in the paint to draw a charge (2 on Maggette and 1 on Monta) or to block a shot (Milsap, 4 blocks, the Jazz, 10 total blocks). They suffocated the Warriors in every possible way on defense, leaving little room to maneuver for Monta and Curry, thus disrupting their passing quite easily, and forcing them into rushed shots. Maggette led the way with several 1 on 4 drives that resulted in charges or blocked layups. The turnovers generated by the Jazz defense and Warriors general negligence with the ball further compounded these problems. I'm generally okay with Curry's turnovers since I will blame that purely on "rookie mistakes." But 10 turnovers in one game is atrocious, getting his first five in the first quarter alone! The turnover situation was so bad for the whole team that the only Warrior to NOT commit a turnover was Anthony Tolliver!
On the offensive end, the Jazz just seemed to confuse the Warriors. The offensive system that the Jazz ran where players are continuously screening away or their continous highpost double screens followed by one of the screeners cutting straight to the hoop confused the Warriors all-night long. As a result, the Jazz frequently found an open man in the soft spots where the Warriors weren't watching. Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer ran the pick and roll like you were watching John Stockton and Malone (except with longer shorts) and Boozer converted most his shots within 5-10 feet of the bucket. Boozer is tremendous player, but I really got to give it up to the coaching. Aside from a few of 20 foot turnaround fadeaway jumpers, I believe the system he's playing within continuously got him in the right position in open space to make plays and baskets. Same goes with Kirilenko, who managed to have what looked to be at least 4 wide open dunks, several from backcutting. Though, part of the reason was that the Warriors lacked a big man strong enough to hold off Boozer alone (not many NBA players can I suppose), often requiring a double team which of course leaves someone wide open.
The 4th quarter ‘comeback' was a too little, too late. The nice barrage of threes by Tolliver and Devean George didn't quite make up for Tolliver's god awful shooting earlier in the game, bricking 3 wide open shots within a span of 2 minutes. He seems like a guy that hustles, but he might be the worst designed "shooter" the Warriors have had since Mike Dunleavy Jr.
(Judging by Monta and Andris Biedrins' faces, the Jazz guards, like Wesley Matthews, are TOUGH like Boozer)
CJ Watson deserves it once again. Whether he's coming off the bench or starting the game, Watson can be a very effective scorer (though not much else). Watson scored 22 points. He's got a knack for steals, which seems to be a Warriors guard thing, as he had 3 steals tonight to go with his scoring. Plus, he deserves for the upcoming Mohawk day at the Roaracle!
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Brutal game.
Curry was horrible, folks… don’t bother pretending otherwise or trying to blame it on Monta. The Jazz defense ate him alive, and the fact that he was on the floor during a garbage-time run initiated by others doesn’t mean he provided some magical pixie dust. He played losing basketball tonight. It’s okay — it’s just one game. But pretending that Curry’s flaws aren’t flaws is no better than pretending that Monta’s flaws aren’t flaws.
Monta stank too, and clearly shouldn’t have been playing; Maggette doesn’t look right either, and Morrow had his worst game since returning. Biedrins was fantastic, however, and besides Ronny, the bench did an excellent job all around.
This was a loss to a very good, intelligent, dangerous team. It’s not that big a deal. But if you watched this game and came out of it feeling hunky-dory about Don Nelson, you weren’t watching very carefully… he is on absolute auto-pilot right now. I watched the Jazz feed of this one for a chuckle, and their announcers sounded embarrassed for us… they had to do all this awkward tap-dancing around the fact that there’s clearly no coaching going on in Oakland.
I can live with a non-winning team… I liked the Musselman years just fine, as at least we saw the best those teams could do. We haven’t seen the best the current team can do. It might not be very good, but it’d damn well be better than this garbage. Somebody buy Nellie a ticket to Hawaii, pronto. I’m tired of being embarrassed to root for this team.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
by onlxn on Feb 20, 2010 12:24 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I’m tired of being embarrassed to root for this team.
Sums up my night well. Watched the game with some Jazz fans and they didnt even bother trash talking to me in the slightest, they acknowleged that being a Warriors fan (and admitting it publically outside of the Bay Area) is punishment enough.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Feb 20, 2010 1:26 AM PST up reply actions
Team Dynamic.....pure and simple...
We simply do not have any team Dynamic when Ellis is playing with Curry and so yes…I do lay part of that blame on on Monta….
MONTA ELLIS YOU ARE NOT A PG……!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
When Curry knows he has to defer to Ellis, his game goes astray… I was hopeful at the start of the year that Curry and Ellis could make this work, but no matter how good either player may be, there is simply ZERO dynamic between these two and clearly from the extremely personable guy that Curry seems to be…I suspect the issue is Mr ‘S-u-p-a-sta’.
Sure the turnovers are bad, but if your head is not right because your natural team dynamic is blown apart once again…you lose concentration, and when you lose concentration against a team like Utah…they will eat you alive…He will learn… next year he wont make these mistakes..
I think we may have missd a golden opportunity in the trade deadline, as the team dynamic is simply soooo much better without Ellis on the floor. Yes we may lose some scoring ability, but I would rather take a team that moves the ball around, fights for each other and supports each other, even if they lose, than watch the ‘Monta Ellis Show’… and I believe that’s is also a large reason why he was not selected for All-Star this year… as the coaches clearly know, its not all about points scoring ability…its about the players total game…
"LOVE WARRIORS - HATE COHAN" - Sell The Team!
by BritWarriorGSW on Feb 20, 2010 5:59 AM PST up reply actions
Monta obviously had an awful game, but he passed pretty effectively, and he gave the ball to Curry without hesitation… this wasn’t one of his team-warping ball-hogging performances. As for Curry, he played 19 minutes with Monta and 20 without him, and was terrible in both environments. I really think it’s a stretch to suggest that Monta’s presence was messing with his head. Isn’t it more likely that a tired rookie just had a bad game against a tough defense?
I think we may have missd a golden opportunity in the trade deadline
I somewhat agree— a deal for Mayo & Thabeet would’ve been worthwhile, and the Dubs were fools to pass that up if indeed they did. But I don’t think Monta will be untradeable this summer. If I’m a rival GM and I look at the Warriors this year, I wouldn’t think, “Man, they’d be good if Monta Ellis wasn’t screwing them up”… I’d think, “Man, that team is a mess. I bet most of those guys would be more effective on a team with a real coach.”
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
by onlxn on Feb 20, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Can't be on both sides of an issue
I somewhat agree— a deal for Mayo & Thabeet would’ve been worthwhile, and the Dubs were fools to pass that up if indeed they did.
I’m confused, Onlxn. From the “Did the Warriors Really Turn Down OJ Mayo for Monta Ellis” thread, you responded to my pro-trade post by stating:
Mayo is not clearly a better player, nor clearly a better fit… he’s just a comparable guy. And there’s no point in making lateral and disruptive trades like that until Nellie’s out of the picture.
I’m not trying to be an ass, but this just doesn’t seem very consistent. I respect your opinion, but you seem to have multiple opinions here. I can’t believe that Thabeet makes that much of a difference; he has absolutely zero offensive abilities, and my guess is that even Memphis thinks they blew it with that pick, if his name is indeed popping up in trade rumors.
I’m in a similar boat to Onlxn, here. Thabeet does make a huge difference to me. Mayo for Monta alone isn’t a good trade for us, but Mayo and Thabeet for Monta is. Thabeet’s not much of an offensive player, but he doesn’t seem to try to do anything he’s not capable of, which is a good thing. Defensively, he is a good player. He blocks shots, he has the size to guard the post, he rebounds at a decent rate. He’s young, he’s big, he’s athletic for his size, he was always seen as a bit of a project….yeah, he’s a nice piece to have, and he turns something closer to a lateral move into a quality trade for the Warriors. I can’t see how a team could draft a guy second overall and sour on him already, especially since he’s been effective when he’s played.
by Missing Barry on Feb 20, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
If Memphis is souring on Thabeet, they’re idiots. He may not’ve been the second-best player in the draft, but he’s a guy worth having for damn sure. Het’s basically looking like the next Andris Biedrins… that’s more than enough to justify a Monta/Mayo swap.
Hell, I’d probably rather have Thabeet than Mayo. Scoring two-guards are a dime a dozen, and I don’t know why this franchise is so obsessed with them. I’d much rather gamble on a big man, especially when he’s shooting .580 from the field, averaging ten boards per 36 and blocking shots more often than any other NBA player.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Tha Beet
I am shocked you think Thabeet has great value here. Yes, he’s 7’3", and he can block shots, so that’s a good start for a team needing defense, but he is absolutely useless on the offensive end.
Het’s basically looking like the next Andris Biedrins
No way. Do not judge Andris on his performance for this season; judge him by what he has done over the past 3.5 years. Andris has the uncanny ability for a big guy to handle the ball, which is especially useful in pushing the tempo. Biedrins can get the rebound, dribble out of traffic, and occasionally push. He has a nice up-and-under move, he utilizes the crab-dribble on occasion, he has the lefty hook (which should be much better than it is, but that’s a different story), and he understands positioning and spacing on the offensive end. I know some don’t like how he sets screens, but you saw a nice pick and roll dynamic between Biedrins and Baron, as well as Biedrins and Jax, so you know he has this ability. And most importantly, Biedrins has some of the softest hands I’ve ever seen from a big man. He almost never bobbles the ball, even on tough interior passes. Sure, I think Andris should have more of an offensive repertoire than he currently does, but comparing him to Thabeet is sheer lunacy.
Thabeet is a shot-blocking, 7’3" version of Yinka Dare. He has absolutely no offensive ability beyond dunking. His offensive game is more raw than most high school players, and I don’t ever really expect it to develop. He makes Dwight Howard look like Hakeem Olajuwon. And Biedrins and Thabeet could never be on the court at the same time.
If he can keep averaging 9 points on 60+% TS% offensively, that’s easily enough to make his rebounding and potential to be an absolute defensive force worthwhile. He’s averaging over 4 blocks per 36 minutes, he’s 7’3, athletic….dude can be a monster on ball and off ball defensive presence. Plus we’re not even giving Biedrins up in this deal!
by Missing Barry on Feb 20, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
That’s a big “if.” I agree with your sentiments in theory, but I don’t think it works out so conveniently in practice.
He’s averaging over 4 blocks per 36 minutes
MB, Thabeet averages 10MPG, so quoting per 36 stats is kinda goofy, right? Basically he gets just over 1 block in his time out there each night, which is nothing to write home about for a guy who is 7’3" and hangs around the rim. We have no idea if he could sustain this pace over the course of 25-30 MPG.
Very fair points, I’ll admit I don’t know much about sample size in basketball (as in, how large a sample you need before it becomes trustworthy). As for the offense, I dunno if it’s a huge assumption – all it really means is a few times a game he either gets an offensive rebound and puts it back, or his teammates get him the ball around the basket, and all he has to do is finish. I mean, 9 points per 36 minutes makes him one of the worst offensive players in the league in terms of getting his shot off, so it basically means he’s only shooting when he gets the ball near the hoop, and it goes to figure he’d be really efficient from there…..so maybe. But yeah, I won’t claim the stats are proof. We’re still probably working with small samples.
by Missing Barry on Feb 20, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not judging Andris by what he’s done this season (and I’m the one guy who thinks he’s played fine this year, anyway); I’m comparing Thabeet as a rookie to Biedrins as a rookie. Thabeet’s numbers compare favorably with Andris did in each of his first two seasons, in fact. Thabeet is of course a lot older than Biedrins was as a rook, but I see no reason to think he’s not in a similar place developmentally. The only thing differentiating the two is Thabeet’s passing ineptitude, and that is a real concern. But it’s not enough to prevent him from being a high-upside guy. He has played well… I don’t know what to tell you.
And Biedrins and Thabeet could never be on the court at the same time.
I’m okay with that… crap teams need to stockpile assets above all. Installing Thabeet as our backup center and sliding Ronny to the four makes a ton of sense to me. Hell, it’d make Ronny expendable, which is a good thing in my book, as much as I like him; I think Ronny may be the lever we need to dump Maggette’s contract.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
I’m the one guy who thinks he’s played fine this year
Agreed.
I’m comparing Thabeet as a rookie to Biedrins as a rookie. Thabeet’s numbers compare favorably with Andris did in each of his first two seasons, in fact. Thabeet is of course a lot older than Biedrins was as a rook, but I see no reason to think he’s not in a similar place developmentally.
Totally disagree. Andris was a 17 year old rookie who basically had no business in the NBA. A year or two in the D-League, if it existed, would have done Andris a lot of good. Thabeet played major minutes for 3 years at a big time college powerhouse, played major minutes deep in the NCAA tourney, and was the Big East (best conference in NCAA basketball) player of the year in 2009.
I think Ronny may be the lever we need to dump Maggette’s contract.
Yeah, I’ve pretty much thought this all along, as well.
Installing Thabeet as our backup center and sliding Ronny to the four makes a ton of sense to me.
Not so sure about this one. While Turiaf has shown a nice 15’ jumper at times, he doesn’t play with Biedrins often because neither guy can really space the floor. If Turiaf is gonna play the 4, then I think he is more suited to play with an offensive-minded center.
Well, I guess there is another thread for this kind of talk. Any way we could move this discussion into Atma’s new thread for consolidation purposes?
I’d just like to note that Thabeet is one of those guys that hasn’t been playing basketball for very long – he didn’t start until he was 15 according to wikipedia – so while Thabeet did get major minutes at UConn, he could still have a lot of room for growth in all the little aspects of the game most of us pick up long before we get to age 15….
by Missing Barry on Feb 20, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly. And while this may stir up fears of Olowokandi: the Sequel, the ’Kandi Man never put up numbers as good as the ones Thabeet has posted to date.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
And while this may stir up fears of Olowokandi
Olowokandi had some years that would have been worth having from a throw in on a close guard trade.
Like Cuban said sometimes just putting the tall guy next to the basket and passing him the ball makes sense.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 21, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Biedrins was fantastic
agree with everything except this. he got crushed by Boozer for 16 pts 8 rebs (in AB’s 23 minutes) on 6-9 shooting (4-6 FT). It didn’t look as bad (-7) b/c the other W players hit shots while AB was in (notably the 5-7 from 3 pt land in the 1st quarter). btw it’s pretty clear AB is afraid to get fouled as he has started to hold screens instead of rolling to the hoop.
surprisingly, Ronny also had trouble (Boozer had 10 pts on 5-9 & 3 rebs), but his -15 came b/c of the 2nd quarter 19-2 run where the team was 1-11 overall, 0-4 from 3, 0 FT’s & had 5 TOs. still, outside of the difference in shooting, as has been the case since Ronny joined the team last season, the team has continued to benefit more from having him in the game over Andris.
probably b/c Hunter was fresh & Boozer had already played 35+ minutes, but he had the most success against him (2-7, 4 pts, 5 rebs).
by homer simpson on Feb 20, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
probably b/c Hunter was fresh & Boozer had already played 35+ minutes, but he had the most success against him (2-7, 4 pts, 5 rebs).
on the post game interview Boozer said they got too relaxed with the big lead and had to toughen up at the end so hunter probably caught them napping.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 20, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
also a possibility. but usually you nap defensively more than offensively.
by homer simpson on Feb 20, 2010 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
he got crushed by Boozer for 16 pts 8 rebs (in AB’s 23 minutes) on 6-9 shooting (4-6 FT).
1) Not all of that was against Andris… Boozer was covered by Maggette on several plays, with predictable results. The Dubs did some willy-nilly defensive switching all night.
2) I’m not going to kill a guy for getting smacked around a bit by one of the NBA’s best bigs. Biedrins did outrebound Boozer during his time on the floor, and played strong help D.
3) A fair amount of the team’s hot shooting came about because Biedrins was helping to move the ball quickly and effectively; Ronny does that too, of course, but not all centers do. On the other hand, this…
btw it’s pretty clear AB is afraid to get fouled as he has started to hold screens instead of rolling to the hoop.
…is true, and a problem. But I think it’s a bit of a two-way street there, as the guards haven’t really been setting him for offense, either. It seems like there’s a team-wide effort to exclude Biedrins from the offense. Biedrins is partaking in that effort too, and given his free-throw woes, you can somewhat understand why. Still, the guy has the best field-goal percentage in the league and will soon have the highest field-goal percentage in the history of the league. Biedrins, Curry, Monta and Nellie need to find ways to involve him again, even if it means he has to embarrass himself at the line a couple times a night.
as has been the case since Ronny joined the team last season, the team has continued to benefit more from having him in the game over Andris.
This is true. It’s worth being clear, though, where the big gap in the Warriors’ relative fortunes between the two guys comes from.
The Warriors’ D was a tad worse than usual with Ronny on the floor last year and a good bit better with Andris on the floor last year; those results were consistent with their showings in previous seasons, as Andris had always helped his teams’ defenses more than Ronny. That trend has reversed itself this year - the ’09‘10 Warriors have defended a good bit better with Ronny than without and a tad bit worse with Andris than without. But I continue to believe that Andris is the better overall defender. While Ronny is better in many ways, I don’t think those edges do enough to close the vast, vast rebounding gap.
The real gap is on the other end. This season, much like last season, there’s a gulf between the two in team offensive efficiency… 8.5 points per 100 possessions last year, 8.8 this year. Huge, huge numbers.
Biedrins would close the gap a bit by shooting more often and getting fouled more often; even if he continued to make a miniscule number of free throws, the net effect would be worthwhile, as we have real trouble getting into the penalty when Andris plays big minutes. But since Baron left, he has not seemed to be an offensive asset, despite marvelous efficiency and good passing for a five. We can only hope that he and Curry start to develop some pick-and-roll chemistry next year.
probably b/c Hunter was fresh & Boozer had already played 35+ minutes, but he had the most success against him (2-7, 4 pts, 5 rebs).
Hunter brings some good things to the table on D. But really, this should be chalked up to sample size more than anything. In the same way that Monta Ellis is not actually a 14.2% shooter from the field, Chris Hunter is not actually a guy who can handle Carlos Boozer. We only confuse ourselves if we try to read into slices of play that are this small.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
either way, Biedrins wasn’t exactly “fantastic”. i think even you might be willing to admit you overstated things there.
as Andris had always helped his teams’ defenses more than Ronny.meh. imo, this has more to do with who played in their stead. Al Harrington, Murphy, Croshere, POB, Foyle at C vs Lakers bigs.
But I continue to believe that Andris is the better overall defender.that’s kind of a reach unless you’re factoring rebounding as defending (i separate it. i consider Bowen a good defender, but a bad rebounder for his position. i consider JRich as a bad defender, but a good rebounder for his position).
the #‘s are easy to explain. Ronny rebounded so poorly last season (especially for playing C). he was getting crushed per 48 by -5.4 last season at C. now that that’s back around -2.7 per 48 this season, the team is now much better defensively with him in vs AB. in both seasons, the opposition has shot around 2% lower in effective FG% when Ronny’s been on the court. the difference is Ronny & the team (thanks to less Jackson at the 3 or 4) has rebounded better.
as long as Nellie isn’t pairing Ronny with minus rebounders like Maggette at the 4 & Jack at the 3, he’ll help the W’s on defense more than Andris (b/c Ronny is a better help, position, perimeter & post defender, he is much better vs ball-screen, he doesn’t seem to get caught by cross screens down low & creates good angles when he opens up and he also doesn’t gamble for steals as much).
by homer simpson on Feb 22, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
Too many things about this game
Curry might have had his worst game of his young career. Easily, he still wasn’t being used on the ball as much as he should though. Multiple times Nellie put the ball into Monta’s hands. Which leads me to Monta, he was not ready to come back. He didn’t look quick on that leg, his shot was way off and although he passed very well STILL was playing a lot of the time on the ball. It was probably 50/50 between ball handling for the two of them.
Why did Beans only play 23 mins? We were awful on the boards and on limited time he got 9 boards. Also props to Hunter, he shouldn’t just be a garbage time guy. He’s a nice player that cab provide 10-15 minutes. Sloppiness killed us, it has nothing to do with one guy or two guys but everyone. Everyone tonight sucked except for Ammo, CJ, and Beans and maybe Hunter. Curry had a rookie wall type of game, Ellis just came back from a knee sprain way too early and rarely if ever has shooting nights like this.
I wonder when our coaches will finally make adjustments. When will they realize Curry should handle the ball 70+% of the time? When will they realize Beans deserves 25+ minutes? Make a half time adjustment either. I haven’t missed a game since 2007 and this has to be one of the worst showings if not the worst in that span easily
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
he passed very well STILL was playing a lot of the time on the ball. It was probably 50/50 between ball handling for the two of them.
I don’t know that that’s the worst thing, frankly. Curry’s the better and more willing passer, but Monta creates more openings than Curry does, and there’s value in that… left to his own devices, Curry can be sort of invisible in the halfcourt, with or without Monta. There’ve been a number of games where Monta has deferred to Curry, only to get the ball back when Curry can’t get anything going.
I think the ideal mix would be about twenty-four minutes of them sharing the floor and the ball, twelve minutes of Curry by himself, and twelve minutes of Monta by himself. If Curry starts executing consistently in the halfcourt, great — the ball can and should be his. But until then, it’s not the worst thing for Monta to control the ball for stretches here and there.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
only to get the ball back when Curry can’t get anything going.
i think you’re actually talking about that play designed to have the defense focused on strong side rotations (aka tilting) & then you swing to your 1 on 1 player on the weak side & hopefully don’t have the big man waiting to help down low or at the very least have him a step or two late. i don’t know that they ran it when Monta was out. when Morrow (or CJ) is in, they switched to run that FT line down screen with the pocket-ish cut to free him up top (which creates more lane congestion, but gives Morrow the 3 pt shot opportunity or a fake & pull up chance).
by homer simpson on Feb 20, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
They did some of that, but as in so many games lately, there were also a few instances of Monta and Curry awkwardly handing the ball back and forth at midcourt, before any other Warriors were even executing anything. There’s a “why don’t you give it a try this time?” vibe that’s really weird… the two of them sometimes can’t seem to decide which one of them should start a play.
Obviously you’re sometimes going to move the ball just to shift the defensive alignment… it’s not like any player’s going to create every time, or even should create every time. But when initiating on the perimeter, Curry seems to get stymied a lot more often than Monta, Maggette or CJ… he hasn’t shown much more of a capability to beat his man than Morrow has. I mean, it’s telling that Curry is almost never the 1-on-1 player on the weak side.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
I haven’t missed a game since 2007 and this has to be one of the worst showings if not the worst in that span easily
I don’t know, the choices are plenty?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 20, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
I know what you mean. This one was REALLY bad though
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
This one was REALLY bad though
By next month we’ll have forgotten this one and be thinking about a new disaster :>)
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 20, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Looks like I didn’t miss much after I turned off the game in the second quarter.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Feb 20, 2010 1:49 AM PST reply actions
I think Monta
is right from the start He and Curry can’t play together. So Curry is better without him, the question is who do you rather have Monta or Curry? At the start of the season everybody root for Monta now we are almost done with the season and only 30 games left. I think we saw what Curry can do but how can he improve if the someone is deferred him from doing. Without Monta he got triple double, With Monta garbage time. Im not a Monta hater I like Monta he is fun to watch but he is better than when he is not the leader of the team. He is better when he is not the go to guy. back in the days like when Baron is in town. But I know Ellis would not stoop down and give way to a rookie.
Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........
I think last night really demonstrated the roots of our problems:
1) Our coach doesn’t coach during a game
2) We have no real PF’s or no ‘bangers’. The closest we have on the roster right now is Hunter, who did a decent job containing Boozer in the 4th. If we want to become decent, we need someone who can defend those types of players. (randolph has the tools, but not the mental capacity yet).
3) We are still a very injured, very bad team. Those games we won…were against the leagues bottom feeders (like us). When a good team is running on all cylinders they will beat us, and they will beat us bad. We rely right now on the other team failing badly or the other team simply being bad.
Monta is not the fault, Curry is not the fault, even Maggette is not the biggest fault. Our coaching and team management has totally failed. The team is simply not built that great, especially when injured. WE HAVE NO REAL PF…Tolliver may be a PF, but lets face it…a D leaguer cannot face up with the leagues real PF’s unless he’s on fire.
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Coaching and Team Management
Our coaching and team management has totally failed.
Yes, I agree with that. It all starts at the top. We need a new owner, a new team president, a new head coach and then we can get to work for real on constructing a good NBA team.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 20, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Did Curr-bury
break another team record? for turnovers in a game by a rookie?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 20, 2010 10:46 AM PST reply actions
Probably
Chris Mullin once had 13 turnovers in a game, but I don’t know if he was a rookie at that time.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 20, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
The same old thing in my book, Curry defers to Monta and stops being the floor leader when he is on the court….it’s the pecking order…..Curry is not the kind of player to violate the unspoken code…
It’s up to the coaches to instill that in the other players and make him responsible……If you noticed Monta did not demand the ball or try to force it that much…he was trying to play within the team concept…but Curry was not able to take the leadership effectively…he’s a bit intimated by the vets….he needs to have some good games with them on the floor in order to get over that hill…
That’s my take at this time…
Turiaf
I agree with most of what’s written here, so there’s no reason for me to duplicate that effort. I do have a few questions.
- I watched most of the game (TBH, the Olympics was much more fun to watch at the same time), but what was the deal with Ronny? He came in later than usual, looked like a zombie out there, played 11 minutes total, took one shot which he missed, and had 0 rebounds and 0 assists. Is he injured again? Sick? What’s going on here?
- Tolliver came in during the second quarter and could not get it going. At some point during the Jazz run, Nellie called TO, and then proceeded to put Tolliver back into the game. Anyone care to explain this bizarre coaching decision?
- There was one sequence late in the 1st or early in the 2nd when the Jazz were on offense (please forgive me as I forget all the players involved). They got some penetration inside, but Biedrins was there with excellent D, altering the shot. Of course, no other Warrior came to help, so the Jazz got the offensive rebound. This time, they went up again, and Biedrins had an outstanding clean block and got the rebound. He out-letted to a guard, who promptly turned the ball over around mid-court. Once again, Biedrins was the only player ready on D, and he body bumped the Jazz player trying to block the shot. The whistle was blown. Does anyone else remember this sequence? These are the kinds of things that happen with a Nellie-coached team. Stats just cannot convey how much of a momentum swing this is: absolutely phenomenal D by our center, followed by more excellent D and a rebound, and it ends in Biedrins picking up a foul, the Jazz getting two FT’s, and being able to set up their D on the other end. Just painful. Please, when can our $50M center actually get to play with a real, bona fide, NBA PF? Ever?
As to the second point
You pretty much nailed it in your last sentence. There is no 1st or 2nd string PF right now. Tolliver had to play, or else Maggette was gonna get dominated in the paint by Boozer like the rest of the game. Just like the Lakers game, the Dubs just cant handle big teams.
Curry/Monta/Morrow/Buike/Maggs/AR/Wright/Goose/Turiaf= Wins
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