RECAP: 76ers 110 Warriors 102 -- Goose Eggs
by Feltbot on Feb 24, 2010 12:27 AM PST
in Recaps
Email
Print
It went in.
Final Boxscore | Game Thread (1200+ comments) / Game Day Links | Liberty Ballers
Nor did the Warriors lose this game because of poor defensive effort. The Warriors half-court defense -- clearly employing a pack-the-paint gameplan -- was quite good, as evidenced by the stat lines of the Sixers' big men, who were expected to dominate inside. Samuel Dalembert was 1-5, Elton Brand 6-14, Marreese Speights 3-8, and Thaddeus Young, who killed the Warriors in the last game, was held to 3-8.
Jump for the bad stuff:
This game was about shooting. Don Nelson wanted to force the Sixers -- one of the poorest shooting teams in the league -- to shoot from outside, and shoot they did. Unfortunately, they couldn't miss. The Sixers shot 54% in the first half, and 48% in the game, including an incredible 9-20 from three. Lou Williams, a career 31% shooter from three, was the deadliest of all, hitting 5-8 from behind the arc, including the dagger with 15 seconds left that put the Sixers up 6.
The Warriors, on the other hand, one of the best shooting teams in the league, couldn't buy a shot for the first three quarters of this game. They shot 37% in the first half, and 38% for the game, despite an incredible run in the fourth quarter. Stephen Curry, shooting 42% from three in his rookie season, made one in the fourth quarter to finish 1-8 from behind the arc. While the Sixers were shooting daggers, the Warriors were putting up goose eggs.
The shooting disparity wasn't the total story, though. There was one other huge reason the Warriors lost this game:
The Centers: If you want a reason why the Warriors shot an incredible 33 three pointers in a game in which they couldn't hit a shot for three quarters, you don't have to look any further than at the play at Andris Biedrins (nicknamed "Goose") and Rony Turiaf. Goose and Turiaf both laid eggs in this game, shooting 0-2 and 0-3, respectively. Their inability to complete a simple pick and roll absolutely kills the Warriors half-court offense. This failure is particularly glaring because of the fact that they are playing with two guards who for different reasons are among the best partners for pick and roll in the league. Monta because both defenders always go to him, Curry because of his extraordinary passing ability, and both because they can bury the midrange jumper. The Warriors should be running pick and roll almost every possession to initiate their half-court offense. Goose and Turiaf are not letting them.
Biedrins is the worst offender of the two, because he simply refuses to run it. His fear of getting fouled and sent to the free throw line is now so extreme that he won't even look at the basket when he gets an offensive rebound. He either holds the ball, looking for a pass, or throws up an ugly brick from outside his range to avoid contact. Last season, Biedrins averaged 8.6 FGA, this season 4.2. Last season, he shot 3.5 free throws a game. This season, he's shooting a pathetic 0.8.
Biedrins is absolutely killing the Warriors on offense. I'll say it straight out: he's playing like a coward. I'd like to see whether he was benched in this game as a result of his hard fall battling Speights, or because Don Nelson finally couldn't take it anymore. The Warriors are absolutely desperate for a big man who can play pick and roll with Curry and Ellis. Desperate. Biedrins and a lottery pick for Stoudemire? I'd do it in a heartbeat. Biedrins and John Wall for Stoudemire? Yes, yes, yes. Its time for Andris Biedrins to face his demons, step up, and play like a man. Or else he's gone. Guaranteed.
Turiaf is a little better than Biedrins, because he is at least trying. Nevertheless, he blew two pick and rolls outright in this game, by failing to catch the ball. And pulled up and missed a mid-range jumper on the one he did catch.
The man fresh out of the D-League, Chris Hunter, is the Warriors best option in the pick and roll at the moment, which is a sad statement. Hunter has great hands, and takes the ball to the rim like a man. He got his And One at 2:04 of the first quarter. At this point, I make Hunter a solid favorite over Biedrins to remain in a Warriors uniform next year.
Stephen Curry: Curry had an interesting game. It's pretty clear to me that he is struggling mightily against the rookie wall. He looked like he was running through mud in this game. For three quarters, he couldn't hit a shot. His play to start the game was extremely tentative, and I believe led to his benching.
Don Nelson sent Curry a clear message in this game. Nellie wants his point guards to be aggressive. And he has another rule: if you miss three straight jumpers, you have to drive the ball the next time you get it. Curry didn't get this in the first half. But he was a different player in the second half, and in particular in the fourth quarter. In a stretch of the fourth quarter beginning at 8:36, Curry took the ball to the basket three straight possessions. In the first, he got his shot blocked. In the second, the defender knocked the ball out of bounds. In the third, Curry got to the basket for a fantastic left-handed finish to cut the lead to 10.
After the timeout, Curry buried his first three of the game. Then he drove -- and finished -- twice more.
You have to love this kind of mental toughness and perseverance. You have to love how clutch this kid is, even when he's struggling.
Monta Ellis: I think it's pretty clear that Monta came back a little early from his sprained knee. He's not all the way there, and it shows in his inability to hit his jumper, and in his defense. Nellie gave him a break on D in this game, not putting him on Iguodala until the fourth quarter.
His diminished quickness may also have contributed to his foul trouble. Although that fourth foul in the first half was simply a stupid mental error.
If you're wondering why Nellie left him in when he picked up that foul, and then later left him in when he picked up his fifth foul, it is simply this: when you are losing a game big, the percentage play is to leave your best player on the floor and trust him. Its not dissimilar to the situation where you have the worst team in the Super Bowl, and the percentage play is to go for it on fourth and goal, and onside kick to start the third quarter.
And One.
Quick Hits on the Supporting Cast:
- CJ Watson got his And One at 9:18 of the fourth quarter, and was the most consistent Warrior player in this game. It is amazing to see how he has stepped up his game lately, particularly on his drives.
- Tolliver did a great job guarding Elton Brand and on the boards. His shot isn't consistent now, but you got to like what he's doing for the Warriors. A keeper in my book.
- Ammo really turned it on in the fourth quarter, both on defense playing power forward, and by hitting some big threes. He was outclassed guarding Iguodala earlier in the game though.
- Devean George shared the worst +/- with Curry at -17. I think that was a fluke though. I saw him play solid defense on Iguodala and at the four, and he's hitting his open shots. The Warriors have trouble rebounding with him in the lineup, but that's partly on the guards. He's usually got his own man boxed out.
This one goes to the Silent Assassin, CJ Watson. Not just for this game, but for his explosive improvement as a player in the last six games.
75 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I don't think it's the rookie wall
I think Curry got stuffed defensively by Holiday and the Sixers in the 1st 3 qtrs. It wore him out and he shot terribly.
Basically...
Just an off night. EVERYONE has them.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
No, it wasn't just an off night
He had a hard time getting by Holiday, and even when Holiday wasn’t on him, the other SIxers were there to cut off any drives he attempted in the 1st 3 qtrs. Nothing was easy for Curry. I think it frustrated him and made him miss shots.
by IQofaWarrior on Feb 24, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
What I want to know is who the heck voted to trade Curry?
Because you’re insane.
by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Feb 24, 2010 1:08 AM PST reply actions
Poll Question
I don’t understand why trading Curry is an option while trading Ellis is not because it seems like the latter has a better chance of happening.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 24, 2010 6:38 AM PST up reply actions
Because the person who made the poll didn’t provide that as an option.
In the real world, scenarios revolving around trading Curry and scenarios involving Monta being traded are very different. This has far less to do with perceived value to the team and far more to do with the salary implications. There will be many teams who can take on Curry’s salary and finding pieces that will match his salary is easier than finding pieces that match Monta’s. Of course the flip side is that it’s unlikely that players sent back for Curry with matching salaries will be worth much.
Several teams will have cap room this summer though and it may be that a team losing out on a big time free agent would be open to a trade for Monta, a trade where they don’t have to send out salary to match. Would the Nets consider trading pick(s) for Monta if they lose out on the Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Stoudemire bids and feel they have to bring in a “star”? It’s plausible, perhaps not likely but plausible. (And we’d open up a TPE in the process! Just think of all the players we wouldn’t spend that on!)
And we’d open up a TPE in the process! Just think of all the players we wouldn’t spend that on!
I wouldn’t want the Warriors to trade Ellis for draft picks and a TPE for the sole purpose of me not having to slog through the 1,000 posts about how:
A) The Warriors should use the TPE on player X
B) The Warriors FO is so terrible if they don’t use the TPE
C) Cohan is a scrooge and has mandated that the FO not use the TPE to trade for an overpaid player who wouldn’t really help the team much anyways.
Ugh. Totally not looking forward to the 12 months of that.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 24, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
It is an option, as I just assumed Ellis would be traded if Curry was kept. The Warriors can’t keep all three, can they? I phrased it the way I did because both Curry and Wall are point guards. Who would play point if both are kept? I haven’t seen Wall play, so I’m interested in hearing where you think he should play, and with whom. Personally, I’d rather trade him for a star big man.
Its time for Andris Biedrins to face his demons, step up, and play like a man
+1
like here would be anything to lose for him
-goddamnit he acts like guy who is doing just half of his job and thinks that noone will notice that
outside creates 4 inside and inside 4 outside -it works that way -and when one side for whatever reason refuses to do what it got to do it isn’t team anymore
if i’d be Andris i’d demand the ball i’d go inside and i’d get those fouls and i’d shoot those goddamn freethrows -because only way to solve problem is to face it -when you put your had in to the sand nothing happens -it just getting worse
i bet if he would take some LSD he could make 20 FT in a row
WTF FTW!
i bet if he would take some LSD he could make 20 FT in a row
maybe nellie should give goose a bottle of goose before every game?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Just cuz it worked for Doc Ellis
Doesn’t mean it would work for Biedrins.
I think Biedrins on LSD would become even more self conscious and miss his free throws even worse.
A bottle of goose would be better. Loosen up the nerves.
by WheresMyChippy on Feb 24, 2010 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
Biedrins and John Wall for Stoudemire? Yes, yes, yes.
Haha. You’ll be here all night.
Let’s leave Biedrins out of this equation, as his frustrating play since returning from injury is addling all our brains a bit. At times I’ve been frustrated enough to ponder moving him for a bag of balls with an expiring contract. The per minute numbers still look pretty good, but something really does seem to be amiss psychologically. I like to imagine that with some guidance from a calm, even-handed, and professional coach (rather than an erratic nutcase) he can slay his demons but … you never know.
Either way, you do not, in a million years, give up a 20 year-old phenom with five cheap years and a non-zero chance of becoming a legit, both-ends-of-the-floor, franchise-type player for a 28 year-old one-dimensional ballhog with a near-max contract and zero chance of becoming this kind of player. Assuming some kind of crazy sign-trade (a rather huge stretch) Steve Kerr would say “omg wtf yes” to this deal, if he didn’t drop dead from excitement on the spot.
Meantime, I would stop rooting for the Warriors, cold turkey, full stop. On the plus side, I’d be much less likely to find myself hanging out on this site sifting through laughable trade proposals like this…
There will be no extra point!
Food for thought
Don’t you wish we had someone to tutor our big men? Like Patrick Ewing helping Dwight Howard, or Hakeem Olajuwon working with Yao Ming.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4828213.html
Nate Thurmond? Maybe a bit too old. But you all get the idea.
I think the star “tutor” thing is as much a publicity issue as anything else. Howard and Yao were marquis players before their “tutors” came aboard.
Good point
Still doesn’t mean that they can’t pick up a thing or two, though. There’s no sub for championship experience (at least in Olajuwon’s case).
There’s no sub for championship experience (at least in Olajuwon’s case).
Well, I’d take teaching skills over championship experience any day. I don’t know if Olajuwon has such skills or not, but there are many excellent players who have shown absolutely no ability to communicate what they can do to anyone else.
Ewing is also a good overall coach who is in line to get a head coaching job at some point in the future. The fact he was a hall of fame level center just happens to be a plus for Howard’s case.
But a better example is Kareem with Andrew Bynum. Most people will say he did extensively help Bynum who was A LOT more raw than Yao. But Biedrins is in his 6th year so it’s at best a bit overzealous to think any coach can change his game drastically.
In my opinion Biedrins’ is suffering from a confidence issue tied in with (hopefully I’m wrong on this assertion) an effort one. He doesn’t seem to have level of commitment he has in past. but that could be me stretching on some outside observations. There is no reason he can’t return to the form of the first half of 2008-9. Hoping for anything else is probably a stretch.
But a better example is Kareem with Andrew Bynum.
Kareem seemed to do nothing for Olowokandi.
by jae on Feb 24, 2010 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
True but...
Wasn’t olowokandi at 23 year old rookie. Bynum was barely 18. Anyway no denying Bynum had the talent/gifts to be an elite center. Could he have become with a normal big man coach and not a “star” one, probably. But there is something to be said for an 18 year old kid being taught by a legend. He’s more likely to listen, as silly as that is to say.
Eitherway it’s not applicable to Biedrins, he’s been in league too long to expect any type of strides. I’d settle for 2008-9 first half Beidrins
A tutor could be great, but more than anything I (like most here) would love someone who would utilize our big men. Barring a Wall/Turner windfall in this draft, the biggest strength of this team right now, relative to other teams, is the dead-eye perimeter shoting of Morrow, Buike, CJ and Curry. Combine the “saturation bombing” game (which, as onlxn has shown, tends to be an a priori recipe for success) with a real commitment to a normal NBA interior game built around Turiaf/Biedrins/Randolph/Wright, playing two at a time, and you have the beginnings of a semblance of a coherent game plan. I mean, if the shooting of Morrow/Curry/CJ can erase 20 point deficits in 5-6 minutes with zero interior game to keep the D honest, imagine what it can do with one?
Yeah, we need a healthy Biedrins/Randolph/Wright/Buike to implement the game plan properly. Problem is, I have zero faith that even if those guys were healthy, Nellie would play them in a clear, consistent, and coherent manner. More likely, he’d bench one or two or all of them based on his whim of the hour, siphoning off their minutes to allow Monta to play 48.3 minutes a night, or to give to whatever short dudes and/or “scrappy vets” he happened to find sitting at the end of the bench.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 24, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Don’t you wish we had someone to tutor our big men?
First we need a coach who wants bigmen to play like bigmen and will draft big bigmen instead of skinny bigmen. Even Ewing can’t turn a stickman into a diesel and why should he even try if nellie wouldn’t play big anyway?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
Gettin' Iggy With It
Great recap Feltbot. Great insights as always.
I also wanted to give some props to Andre Iguodala. Morrow and the other were forcing him into difficult fadeaways, but he was still hitting them in bunches. If Iggy can do that consistently he’s a real deal top tier player.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 24, 2010 7:00 AM PST reply actions
That clean iso strip of Monta late in the game was damn impressive, too (even if Monta deserved it for putting his head down and deciding to go solo, rather than surveying the floor like a real PG).
Man, Monta-plus for Iggy would have been such a sweet deal for us! Not only would we have added instant toughness, length, D and rebounding, but, since Iggy’s big enough to play some SF, we’d have set our roster up for the (unlikely) arrival of Wall.
Too bad either Riley’s not that smart or (more likely) Stefanski’s not that dumb…
(ps @ feltbot: yes, silly trade proposal aside, great recap!)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 24, 2010 7:47 AM PST up reply actions
The Biedrins frustration is understandable,
but you he’s not THAT bad that you would trade away someone like John Wall with him, just to get someone on two shaky knees and a surgically repaired eye.
The Biedrins offensive issue actually goes back to the end of last season. For whatever reason, when he came back at the end of the year, he was less involved in the offense, taking fewer shots, drawing almost no fouls, and being generally less effective. I have no idea how much of this is him and how much are new instructions (e.g. Nellie decided that his contribution was small enough that he could have him move out from the basket and have it drop to zero.)
I’m inclined to put a whole lot of this on the coaching. It’s not like Biedrins is the only big who has seen his shot volume drop. It’s not as pronounced with Turiaf, but he’s averaging fewer shots per minute than he did last year. it’s not as pathological as with Biedrins, but it’s noticeable. Has Nellie instituted new orders that keep the ball out of their hands in places where they can shoot? Monta has the ball more often as well and he just doesn’t seem to see big men as targets for passes at all. Is it that he’s effectively freezing out the Warriors bigs? My guess is that it’s a bit of both and that Andris hasn’t dealt with it as well as Turiaf, though neither are playing as well as they have in the past. Turiaf was already more of a high post player so it shouldn’t change his numbers as much, but the change in shot volume there suggests that there’s something going on with the team as a whole.
If the ‘game plan’, such that there is one, involves the bigs being screen setters and nothing else, there’s a limit to how much Biedrins can do without deviating from the plan himself and further confound a monumental problem. I don’t know if this is the case. Frankly the way they’ve played this year is just too damn confusing. They play poorly in an unconventional way, making it tough to draw any conclusions. He’s clearly not dealing with whatever is going on well, but it still seems like it would be easier to correct the game plan than to cut and run away from a player who does something particularly important (rebounding the ball) at an elite level, especially when this is one of the team’s biggest problems.
And mark it, Andris’s rebounding is still a plus. It doesn’t seem that Nellie cares much about this though. Right now, I’m not sure what Nellie cares about. It’s not defense. It’s not making adjustments at the half. It’s not keeping his players fresh or having a regular rotation or having anything that would go towards stability. He’s been a very good coach in the past, but the “job” he’s doing this year should have had him fired a long time ago. Of course, that would require a decision from the top, and Cohan and Rowell haven’t been impressive in their top level management decisions. The fish rots from the head down.
by jae on Feb 24, 2010 8:36 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
Fabulous post… I agree with all of this. Biedrins has been tentative on offense, and that’s been detrimental, but he’s also been forced to set a ton of picks 20+ feet from the basket and move the ball around at the top of the key to no great benefit. That not only means he’s rarely in position to score, but that he’s rarely in position to grab an offensive board. Biedrins is grabbing 29.5% of all defensive rebounds, the highest rate of his career and better than all but four NBA regulars — it’s not like his excellence in this department is gone. But he’s grabbing offensive boards only about two-thirds as often as he did last year, because on a lot of attempts, he’s nowhere near the rim.
Biedrins certainly isn’t blameless in all this, but this…
it still seems like it would be easier to correct the game plan than to cut and run away from a player who does something particularly important (rebounding the ball) at an elite level, especially when this is one of the team’s biggest problems.
…could not be more correct. Not to mention, Nellie publicly calling someone out for a “lack of life” is one of the more egregious examples of the pot calling the kettle black that you’ll ever see.
This team is dysfunctional in dozens of ways. Coaching couldn’t fix all of those dysfunctions, but it could help in places… Nellie doesn’t seem to be addressing any of these dysfunctions in the slightest. The team’s been on complete autopilot for most of the year, and it’s depressing to watch. This is a sad way for a great coach to go out.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Coaching couldn’t fix all of those dysfunctions, but it could help in places…
And it would set an example in those other places.
Nellie seems content on letting whatever is happening happen. Maybe he’s using the sly strategy of “tank in such a strange and unconventional way that outside observers just think I’m a crazy old kook.” At least, that’s my hope… because the alternative is that he is a crazy old kook and we’re on the hook for another year… during which Cohan will not do anything to remedy the situation.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 24, 2010 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
wouldn’t simple answers be best? could it be that Jack’s absence has lowered the C’s shot attempts? not only ball-screen, but he bricks so many shots (& yet draws enough defensive attention) that it might give the C’s more rebounding opportunities. missed the 2nd half last season b/c i was overseas, but i have read about the ‘rest-a-vet’ program.
i don’t agree with Nellie’s philosophy & i’m not a fan of his rotations, but wouldn’t it be simpler to assume that Nellie sees Andris shying from contact by rushing shots & avoiding spots on the floor where said contact could occur and in order to make him at least be guarded he’s made adjustments offensively? the only adjustment i’ve seen is that they run more plays where Andris has the ball up top more as an initiator (which you usually see with outside shooting big men like Mikki) for the guards.
the simplest answer to his comment last night is probably that he’s sick of watching Andris not be Andris by slipping screens (which at least force weak side rotations to open the corner 3) or rolling to the hoop to give the guards an option to pass.
even though i don’t think much of coaches in terms of impact on the game outside of pace & rotations (both minimal in their own respects unless they’re doing something crazy like playing the past 2 seasons version of Desmond Mason over almost anybody else), i think it’s safer to assume that most of these guys do know more than we do about basketball & see things that we’re not picking up on. (i think) we all agree that that’s not a good reason to not play the more statistically productive player, but if my experience has taught me anything – coaches are sticklers for “playing the game the right way” which is basically “their way”. coaches want to control, but they have none outside of PT & system (for example, being in the “doghouse” usually means you have a system ‘breaker’ on your hands).
by homer simpson on Feb 24, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, absurd
The idea that Nellie wants Biedrins to be less aggressive is simply ridiculous. He’s the coach who created Biedrins offense, who designed and ran plays that catered to his strengths at getting to the basket and finishing. His benching and tongue-lashing of Biedrins post-game for refusing to compete says it all.
by Feltbot on Feb 24, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
Hasn’t Nellie’s biggest criticism of Beans been a LACK of aggressiveness. It’s clear in his game he is unwilling to role and go up to basket with ball way he used to. He was never Amare but right now he is totally weak on pick and rolls, probably complete fear of free throws has killed his confidence.
somehow i don’t think Nellie throwing him out to dry in post game press conference will help though. Beans never struck me as guy who responds well to that sort of thing.
Rookie Wall?
Are you serious? No way he hit his rookie wall. It’s one game where his shot wasn’t going down. for him to hit the rookie wall he has to have bad games consistently not just one bad shooting night. Last game he had a great shooting night and even yesterday he stepped it up in the fourth quarter and he had great assist numbers and great rebounding numbers.
by Morrow is wet!!! on Feb 24, 2010 9:34 AM PST reply actions
We need to draft a big man this year who will have the low post offensive scoring that we need for the future.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 24, 2010 10:07 AM PST reply actions
they really need a superstar. someone who scores as efficiently as possible (TS%) who also sets up his teammates as efficiently as possible (asst:tov?). preferably one who also rebounds well for his position & is a great individual & team defender (with versatility being an added bonus).
by homer simpson on Feb 24, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions
they really need a superstar.
which reminds me, How did you escape from that mob in Hollywood?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
We need to take the best available player. If there’s a low post offensive scoring threat big who can reasonably be argued to be that guy, then they should take him. If they’re drafting and it’s a stretch to see the guy they’re taking as that guy, their better off passing on the project. Targetting a position long before you have any knowledge of the players available is a great way to ruin a draft. Cutting down on your options rarely improves things.
If there’s a low post offensive scoring threat big who can reasonably be argued to be that guy, then they should take him.
could cousins be reasonably argued to be that guy? how about over turner and wall??
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
if cousins had duncan or shaq's personality/mentality
he would be #1 pick…… his biggest knock is definitely mental, and thats a huge risk.
if cousins had duncan or shaq's personality/mentality?
Ok, so mix a duncan’s brain with a Shaq’s butt and you’ll get a #1 pick?
So, who’s mentality does cousins resemble then?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
Derek Coleman
there are a lot of questions with his A) Maturity, B) On court language C) past. I can only speak to what I’ve seen this year… he is VERY immature, and carries himself poorly One wonders if in the NBA he could handle the way players would play him. I think this is the smaller issue to off court flags which I’m unaware of.
Watched some interviews of him and clips on youtube. It’s clear why scouts rav John wall and hesitant on Cousins. Wall (on top of his awesome talent) is an alpha dog, a leader. Cousins will a super talented player at a premium position, doesn’t act like the star he should be. I have a hard time wording it other than he’s immature and that’ll be a detractor for a team in top few picks
It’s a worst case-scenario by far, but the last time we went after a giant with amazing physical abilities but “maturity” issues, Chris Washburn happened. Cousins has been considerably more impressive his lone year at UK than Washburn was at NCSU.
I agree with you Jae but..
I was just saying the knocks he receives. He also won’t be as physically dominating as he is in college. Some scouts call him a taller Al Jefferson. That being said, If Al Jefferson was a legit 6-11, eh might get a few more shots in the basket not making him as much of a black hole as people think.
The thing is Cousins could be a 20/10 guy by his second year at an efficient rate because of his variety of moves. As much as i REALLY like Wall and Turner, I’m hard pressed to pass on Cousins as you just don’t find elite big men all that often (unless you are the spurs), and if you’re the warriors even less so..
Personal opinion on Cousins personality. He doesn’t strike me as someone who knows how good he can be. This is good and bad. Good cause he’s fairly humble and seems pretty coach-able by the adjustments he makes according to Calipari. At the same time… all elite players think they are elite and carry themselves that way, and he doesn’t. Maybe I’m nitpicking though. He is easily one of the most intriguing prospects I’ve seen in years, because of such uncertainty mixed with such gifts.
As much as i REALLY like Wall and Turner, I’m hard pressed to pass on Cousins as you just don’t find elite big men all that often
So if we get third pick and Wall and Turner are gone would Cousins be the obvious guy? or are there other near misses for the 3rd spot? I wouldn’t worry too much about immaturity cause these kids should be immature at their age. An immature kid with high potential might be a better value than a mature kid with less athleticism? I don’y follow college ball so I’ll have to look for some more film on cousins before I can form a better opinion.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 25, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
read what i posted below
I don’t wanna take ‘scout gossip’ so seriously, but it’s disconcerting it keeps following him around
I don’t wanna take ‘scout gossip’ so seriously, but it’s disconcerting it keeps following him around
Thanks for the article, I haven’t looked at film of him yet but the article says he might be the most dominant post player in college as a freshman and the scout says he might have a mental problem? That sounds like comparing a real strength to a possible fault? If he’s truly the dominant post player as a freshman that seems like more upside than any attitude downside? Will be interesting to see how his season turns out and where we land in the draft.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 26, 2010 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
in addition
from nbadraft.net
DeMarcus Cousins 6-11 280 PF/C Kentucky Fr.
DeMarcus Cousins has been the most dominant post player in the nation this year, which is amazing considering he’s just a freshman. Even in this day and age of college ready recruits, freshmen bigmen are not supposed to do that.
“DC” is averaging 16.1 ppg, 10.1 rpg. His stats are particularly impressive considering he gets those numbers in limited minutes (22.4 mpg). His per 40 minutes numbers are a staggering: 28.8 ppg, 18.0 rpg.
Cousins rolls out of bed with a double double, and recently, points are becoming the harder stat line for him to ensure the double digits on. It’s probably important to note that if he received more time, his per 40 minute numbers wouldn’t be quite as high due to conditioning.
Despite not being a good leaper, Cousins’ rebounding ability is his greatest asset. He has tremendous strength, quick reflexes, excellent hands and a huge wingspan allowing him to snatch any board in his area. He also shows a real desire and natural ability to rebound the ball.
His other great strength is his ability to finish after contact, in particular after being fouled. He adjusts quickly and is able to locate and finish around the basket extremely well.
Some have gone so far as to call him a potential #2 pick and explore the possibility of teammates (he and Wall) going 1-2 in this years draft for the first time ever.
So why isn’t Cousins projected as a top 3 pick? One scout when asked about Cousins chances of going top 5 texted me this (over a week ago):
“No way. mental issues. he is on bigtime meds i hear. not athletic enough for me talent wise also.but he has been great last month…”
That same scout has since stated that he thinks Cousins will probably go “very high” in the draft, but says he wouldn’t touch him in the top five for fear of off court issues. But he thinks he could easily go that high depending on what teams find in background checks and the validity of the “meds” rumor.
Coach Calipari has been outspoken about the fact that Cousins is still very immature emotionally. His body language is often extremely immature, showing frustration with teammates when they fail to get him the ball or make mistakes. He also shows an unwillingness to be coached. He has been seen tuning out Coach Cal when he gives him advice during games.
Cousins’ cell phone number got out before the Mississippi State game and students bombarded him with calls and texts. At one point during the Mississippi State game Cousins made light of the situation. After converting on a dunk, he raised his hand to his ear as if talking on the phone. Cousins got the last laugh as Kentucky won the game in overtime, and just as important, he didn’t get baited into any damaging conduct in response to the rowdy fans.
Cousins has had three separate incidents this year involving throwing elbows (amazingly none of which drew an ejection or suspension for a game). The first was against Louisville (Jan 2nd) as he threw an elbow at Louisville’s Jared Swopshire while scrambling on the floor for a loose ball. After Kentucky’s loss to South Carolina (Jan 26th), it was reported that Cousins threw “uppercuts” at a South Carolina student as the fans rushed the court. The third was (Jan 30th) against Festus Ezeli as Cousins threw a stiff forearm shiver to the chin of Ezeli. Cousins was also kicked off his Erwin high school team as a sophomore for punching an assistant coach.
Labeled a “thug” by some, Cousins’ apparent mean streak is both a positive and a negative. If he can channel it, he can draw from it and use it on the floor. But it could easily derail him if he allows his temper to get the best of him in an on or off court altercation.
Whether or not Cousins can get NBA teams to look past his mental and emotional issues is probably his biggest hurdle, as he’s certainly been playing like a top 3 pick on the court.
The original “DC”, Derrick Coleman is best remembered for being an immensely talented player that wasted his talent. Hopefully the “New DC” will be able to fulfull his.
Stoudimire? no, no, no ---> Boozer!
Boozer’s a free agent this year, just below the level of the big three. yeah, I know he just said he wants to stay, but they’re on a huge streak. See what he sez after they get booted in round two.
Wall? Great, if we luck out and our pingpong ball = John Wall, then keep him; or trade Monta and the pick for him.
Monta will never be more valuable in trade, and I prefer Curry.
Maggs? same thing, will he ever play better? Even at the same high level?
Bigs? Add Boozer and rotate w/ Randolph, Wright, even Maggs. Keep Toliver, fwiw.
Andris? Don’t know if he can fix the mental. Don’t know if he is really back and healthy, either. But surround him and Ronny with the bigs mentioned above, and does he come back? Hunter? sure.
Works for me… hopefully next year we can talk about the Rookie Wall hitting the rookie wall, and maybe our 2nd straight ROY? ;-)
by WillyWhiteShoes on Feb 24, 2010 10:09 AM PST reply actions
Boozer is a no no
All he wants is money, he could care less about winning. Also I have to ask, why do people think we must trade Monta if they like Curry better? There completely different (not directed at this user only)
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
Why trade Monta?
These discussions are always based on so many hypothetical (like we have a friggin’ clue who coaches next season, or who owns GSW in two…., oh purdy pleeeez.!!)
My reasoning is that even if we don’t acquire a big, sooner or later we get the fellas in suits back (Randolph, Wright, etc..) and with a revived 5 (hopefully Andris) I don’t see Monta getting his touches.
Or maybe I’m just freaking out that Monta reverts to his “we can’t play together” and moves to Capt Jack " I want out" territory. So “get while the gettings’ good,” Monta is valuable to someone and this team (when healthy) isn’t that far away from the playoffs, maybe only a “big” away.
Geez, I’m just a 2007 bandwagon jumper, and already I’m aching to keep this team from disintegrating again. How have you long-term fans kept yer sanity?!?!? ;-)
by WillyWhiteShoes on Feb 24, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
How have you long-term fans kept yer sanity?!?!? ;-)
booze and hookers
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Booze and hookers?
No, I said fans, not how the players keep their sanity….
by WillyWhiteShoes on Feb 24, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
If you hung out here more, you’d know that Skeptic is nothing if not a player…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 24, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Typically players don't need hookers...
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 24, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Typically players don't need hookers...
due to the steroids?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
… which applies to Skep too, I would think…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 24, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
which applies to Skep too
yeah, I don’t need hookers, hookers need me
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 24, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that came out right...
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 24, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Momentum killer
One thing I noticed from Tuesday night’s game vs. Phily, a sort of momentum killing/bad intinct possession involving Monta Ellis. The Warriors had hit their three 3-point shots (pulling within 3 pts) followed by a solid possession and score from the 76ers (making it a 5 point game with about 3 minutes left in the 4th). So Warriors ball, HUGE possession because Phily had scored to pull up by five and counter the run the Warriors were on. What happens?!?!? Monta Ellis isolation….awesome. Not only was it an isolation but Monta was just floating around the 3-point line dribbling and trying to call Turiaf over for a screen. But Turiaf was clearly not on the same page, as Ellis just lofted a long two behind the screen when Turiaf came over (the defender smartly slipped under the screen and allowed Ellis a long two). Result: missed shot, lost possession.
Not a smart play when the TEAM is hot and making a come back. Ellis had an off night shooting (8 for 22) and chose to shoot a long jump shot and not involve teammates on a key possession. I don’t like Ellis as a leader or decision maker because of the above scenarios.
What happened on the next two Warrior possessions?? Stephen Curry layups. Also having an off shooting night (8 for 22), Curry takes it to the hoop and finds room to make layups and keeps the game within reach for the Warriors.
Trade Monta. Build around Curry.
by Brickowski BOOM on Feb 25, 2010 10:31 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
And what about the other 3 qtrs
when Curry didn’t have anything going and Monta was the guy trying to keep the Warriors afloat?
by IQofaWarrior on Feb 25, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
true but the 4th quarter matters more
it was a key possession in the 4th quarter. you’re right, the first 3 quarters played out differently. but both players struggled throughout the game (shooting or with foul trouble) and when it mattered it seemed like Monta’s decision-making wasn’t stellar.
by Brickowski BOOM on Feb 25, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
true but the 4th quarter matters more
The first point of the game counts the same as the last point of the game, it’s just a false perception that the last point is more valuable. Add them up from front to back then back to front and you’ll get the same total.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 25, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
momentum
yes, you’re right each point counts toward the final score. i was making a point about the momentum at that particular part of the 4th quarter and the decision making of monta ellis… time and time again Ellis will kill any momentum by going one on one and hoisting a long 2 or 3. it’s not a high percentage shot and isn’t an effective possession when the team needs a basket (and in the above scenario a basket would keep momentum on our side)…opposing teams want Monta to shoot the outside shot, rather than see him scorch his way to the hoop.
my point is that Ellis is incredible at driving to the hoop and beating his man off the dribble … so why does he decide to dribble outside and shoot a long jumper in a key possession???? answer me that.
by Brickowski BOOM on Mar 12, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Defensively, he'd be more of the same.
Carlos might fit right in.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
What I dont get about Beans
is why he doesnt attempt to make more powerful moves to the basket. I know it’s not easy, but with his length you would think he could get more dunks. Even if he gets fouled, he will be going for more 3 pt plays than 2 free throws so there should be less pressure.
Heck, even Radman goes to the hoop with more authority.
by warriorsvictim on Feb 24, 2010 11:08 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's a confidence issue...
…he’s a shadow of himself. He was a double double machine last year! The injury’s probably playing a huge part in this.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Foshizzle
Though, going forward, I’m not sure how much we can expect the injury thing to improve. It’s the type of thing that doesn’t really go away that well.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 24, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
If we draft John Wall,
he’d play SF in Nellie’s system
Maybe even Center...
….you never know with Nellie.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
How long has it been since he tried his "point forward" routine?
A guy who tries Anthony Mason in that capacity will try anything.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Where's the trade Monta option?
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"
Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Most Commented
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
