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Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

RECAP: Warriors 112 Nuggets 127 - Where did we find this guy? How much is he getting paid?

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Maybe he should have tried this at the dunk contest a few years ago

Open Thread / Warriors Web Links

Quotes from TNT Thursday from Don Nelson, Charles Barkley, Doug Colins, Monta Ellis + Nellie doesn't play rookies myth

Nuggets vs Warriors coverage / Nuggets vs Warriors boxscore/ Denver Stiffs

First off  - we here at GSoM wish Coach Karl a speedy return.  Our prayers are with you and your family. 

Second - let's play a game.  No prizes involved or anything, it's more of a "R Dizzle wants to prove a point so he's going to repetitively ask 2 questions."  Please feel free to answer them in the comments section.

There are some very positive moments from last night's game. 

And some...how shall I say...make me want to throw up type moments from last night's game.

Let's focus on the positives...at least for a minute.

Star-divide

---------------------------------------------THE POSITIVES------------------------------------------

Game Speed

Very simple.  The Warriors made the Nuggets play at an up-tempo speed.  Now this is necessarily a "key to success" (check the score) but it allows the Warriors to stay in the game.  Play fast, shoot a ton, hope everything goes in.  That's the Warrior way. Pr etty simple, right?

I feel like I just wrote 2+2 = 4.

Ronny Turiaf

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He's coming back into form no doubt.  Not the "double-double" type form (did that even exist) but the "I've got all the energy in the world and I'm going to bring that to the game" type form.  Great rebounding and monster put-backs.  He was close that double-double (12 points, 8 boards) but this is all you really expect out of him.  To be honest, I liked seeing Anthony Tolliver in the starting line-up rather than Ronny - his presence is best off the bench.  But I'm not hating, he pulled in a good game.

Where did we find this guy?

How much is he getting paid?

Anthony "Chocolate Rain" Morrow

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That would be a picture of a man that's learning to fill in for Jamal Crawford.  AND-1 3 pointer?  Jeez man..didn't think he was going to start hitting those 3s again after the "slumping" year he's been having.  This would be one of the few circumstances I enjoy being DEAD WRONG.  

4-6 for the 3 point line? 

Where did we find this guy? 

How much is he getting paid?

---------------------------------------------THE NEGATIVES------------------------------------------

Monta Ellis

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Without going too much into this, I'm merely going to toss out his stats from last night.

43 minutes.

6-22 shooting.  1-5 from the 3 point line.  9-9 from the free throw line.   22 points.

5 rebounds.

3 assists.

Where did we find this guy? 

How much is he getting paid?

Andris Biedrins

Capt

Guess who made a free throw last night?  YES THAT'S RIGHT!  ANDRIS BIEDRINS DID!  YESSSSSSSSS!!!!!

Wait a sec, since when did a player IN THE NBA receive a standing ovation from his crowd for a RANDOM free-throw? 

Oh that's right - a guy who's got "tons of potential" and is making his best run for the league's lowest free throw percentage record. 

This is straight out of hand.  Say what you want about his game, but there are NO EXCUSES for a 6th year player to be shooting FREE THROWS (they're called "free" for a reason) at THAT PERCENTAGE.  NO EXCUSE. 

I can shoot a higher percentage in free-throws than Andris - AND THAT'S SAYING SOMETHING. 

Don't believe me?  Check MY form out. 

N3200904_41498741_5985_medium

Ok, but in all seriousness - you can't justify this one.  Something needs to change and SOMEONE needs to stop talking about all this "potential."  3 years ago?  Fine - this might be laudable.  NOW?  

Anyone care to explain to me how a D-League call-up with the initials "AT" plays a better game?

Now I don't understand why he's even on our team still.

Where did we find this guy? 

How much is he getting paid?

Wonder_medium_medium_medium_medium

Stephen Curry

Very very VERY easy award to give out for this game.  Instead of talking about his stats or the game he played or the leadership he's beginning to show on the court or how he's making a damn good case for the Rookie of the Year award or how he would be better paired with some O.J. and Mayo than a Moped Riding Pinnochio...

I'm going to leave you with the video below.

 

Where did we find this guy? 

How much is he getting paid?

 

 

 

Poll
Who's the most over-payed player on the Warriors?
Monta Ellis
204 votes
Andris Biedrins
670 votes
Devean George
115 votes
C.J. Watson
7 votes
Anthony Morrow
9 votes
Ronny Turiaf
19 votes
Stephen Curry
25 votes

1049 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 88 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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LOL...

off topic, when the flying W’s do their timeout performance dunking and all they should have competed in this years Slam Dunk Contest!

Beyond Golden State of Design... and than some!
http://www.tonypsd.blogspot.com/

by Tony.psd on Feb 26, 2010 11:32 AM PST reply actions  

Stephen Curry's move on Birdman got me out of my seat...

Similar to the way Davis dunked over AK47… Sometimes I wonder if he wasn’t a Warrior, would I still love him as much as I do… I think I would, the kid is nasty.

by shahbazi3 on Feb 26, 2010 11:35 AM PST reply actions  

Biedrins

He’s just not doing well this season. His production in everything slipped this season. I chose him as the most overpaid on this team because he’s not playing anywhere near his old self. You can say Biedrins is cheap for a big man, but he just isn’t doing well at all. People always talk about his stats per 36, but why talk about that when he can’t even play that long? I’m highly critical of Beans this season because he should be better than he is right now. If your coach calls you out on the media and makes negative remarks about how you’re playing, you must be pretty bad.

by DubsFan408 on Feb 26, 2010 11:57 AM PST reply actions  

People always talk about his stats per 36, but why talk about that when he can’t even play that long?

It’s the whole point of “rate” stats. When he isn’t playing, someone else is playing and racking up value in his place. And why can’t he play that long? Seems to me a lot of the “him not playing that long” is more “coaches aren’t playing him that long”.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Well Nellie takes him out because sometimes he isn’t producing, or Beans gets into foul trouble quickly.

by DubsFan408 on Feb 26, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Nellie has a weird idea of “not producing” most of the time. They should just trade Beans for Channing Frye and then Nellie would be in hog heaven.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Feb 26, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, i agree

My first thought was Maggette, but at least he produces within his abilities. But as of right now, Biedrins is giving very little return in the Warriors investment.

by IQofaWarrior on Feb 26, 2010 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

TRADE

Offseason Trade:
Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins for Gilbert Arenas and Andray Blatche.

by Hundredthousanddollarpluswhipmaster on Feb 26, 2010 8:18 PM PST up reply actions  

No

It would be a good trade for us, but Washington wouldn’t give up their best player and that’s Andray Blatche.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 27, 2010 9:15 AM PST up reply actions  

How is giving us the worst contract in the league good for us ?

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Feb 27, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm sold on Curry now

Admittedly, I was in the “We should’ve drafted Jennings” camp. But Nellie’s proven he still has a great eye for point guards. Glad to be proven wrong!

Monta put up a good effort. Hard to knock on him after scoring 22, even if the shot selection remains a problem. We wouldn’t have been in it if it weren’t for his contributions.

Morrow: awesome. ’Nuff said. Ball handling leaves a bit to be desired, but at least no silly turnovers last night.

And yay, Beans made a free throw!

by ryogahibiki on Feb 26, 2010 11:57 AM PST reply actions  

lol

because it took him 22 shots plus nine free throws to get to 22 points

This is my city Oakland, California just to be exact il tell you where its at. Pick up a globe pick up a map see San Francisco cross the water right there exact....
- Mista F.A.B.

by TheRealRocWill on Feb 26, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I asked this elsewhere, but this is probably the most appropriate place to ask it, so here goes:

As someone who didn’t watch the game yesterday, I’m curious, why did Biedrins only play 19 minutes? He got 8 rebounds in that time, his 8 shots suggest to me that the coaching staff had the same mindset as I did in my suggestions in this thread – get Biedrins shots, who cares if he misses and we lose……so, for anyone who watched the game, how’d Biedrins look, and why’d he only play 19 minutes?

So it seems to me R Dizzle’s entire evaluation of Biedrins game was….he’s shooting a horrible FT percentage in 25 FTA’s on the year? Do we understand sample size? Also not sure what his poor FT’s on the year have to do with how he played this game? Also not sure anyone’s ever called Biedrins a “high potential” type guy – he is what he is, we all know that, but what he is has been a very solid player the last few years.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 11:58 AM PST reply actions  

Sample Size

is irrelevant when your free throw shooting form is as terrible as Biedrins’. It’s just disgusting.

by Billy Frijoles on Feb 26, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Sample size is always relevant. It’s basic statistics.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

im sorry but

30 free throw attempts (the amt this season) is enough to derive an fairly confident average free throw percentage. he could improve his form, and take more of them throughout the rest of the season, to bump up his average.

by JustinW on Feb 26, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

30 free throw attempts (the amt this season) is enough to derive an fairly confident average free throw percentage.

It’s 25, and what are you basing this on? Do you have standard deviation numbers, and what average are we talking about here? 45%? 50% We know Biedrins is a bad FT shooter. We also know he’s not nearly as bad as he’s been this year. I’m quite confident his biggest problem, this season, relative to his career, is sample error.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

he is doing something different and is a different state of mind than last year. it is showing. and what are you going to do with standard deviation? not sure what you mean but this. if he shot 50% career average then his variance is .25n, with sd .5. can you explain how this proves your point that its a sample error?

by JustinW on Feb 28, 2010 3:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Looks to me like you’re assuming a binomial distribution. The truth is you’re going to have to use an observed sample standard deviation.

I’m quite confident his biggest problem, this season, relative to his career, is sample error.

I’ll stick by this. We’re talking 25 FT’s here. Last season he shot 216 FT’s and hit 55.1%. The season before he took 187 and shot 62%. For his career he’s shot 707 and hit 51.9%. I’ll take the bigger samples, you can have the 25 FT sample.

by Missing Barry on Feb 28, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

30 free throw attempts (the amt this season) is enough to derive an fairly confident average free throw percentage.

Not sure what exactly you mean by this. Predictive? Surely not. You think 16% is the best guess at his FT% going forward?

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 26, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

best guess going forward depends if previous years are related to this year. i think he is a different state of mind this year and he is mechanically doing something worse than before. if he fixes his form back to before, then we can call this sample an outlier of his usual average. otherwise, yes we can use it as a predictor going forward.

by JustinW on Feb 28, 2010 3:40 AM PST up reply actions  

You’re telling me that you missed the airballed lay-up? Priceless!

by LuvDubs on Feb 26, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He did not look good

Blew an easy dunk. Shot an air-ball trying to throw in a running hook shot. He missed 4 other times as well and none of the misses were “good” misses. On the offensive end, Biedrins reminds me of some of the beginners I play pickup basketball with. He appears to just throw the basketball at the rim without any kind of controlled aiming. The announcers pointed out, and I agree, that these excessively hurried shots are the result of him not wanting to go to the line.

by randolphforpresident on Feb 26, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Were they shots on plays run for him to try to create for himself, or was he not finishing when others got him the ball near the rim, because that’s always been one of his strongest points…? Still curious why he only played 19 minutes, too.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Biedrins was still tentative

They ran plays for him, but he was still tentative…he was late breaking on pick and rolls and he was release he shot early so he wouldn’t get fouled.

Doug Colllins on the ESPN broadcast noted that a way to avoid getting fouled is to release your shot early - which is why biedrins was putting up air balls from 3 feet.

AB, the past two season, was MONEY from inside 4 feet and had, what, around 62% field goal percentage. Nellie was correct that avoiding going to line is affecting his play.

At least last night, after the public thrashing, Nellie ran play for AB right out of the gate in the first quarter. It’s in Nellie and the W’s interest that AB get it together.

by joegiant on Feb 26, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

basically they ran & lot of screen & rolls (in his TNT interview in the 3rd, Nellie noted the Nuggets were vulnerable against it) to get him (& the other bigs) chances to finish.

as Nellie noted that Curry could have had 20+ assists if the bigs just finished – it was hard to watch as the W’s bigs (save Turiaf) continually botched lay ups after getting set up by Curry.

positive was Andris went to his scoring zones (which helped him pick up offensive rebounds – only one of his offensive rebounds was a blown lay up that Curry set up that he put back in), but this limited his chances to get assists by throwing the ball to Monta or Curry & having them hit jumpers. as joegiant posted, Andris rushed many of these opportunities which caused him to magically air ball some lay ups & one turnover when he fumbled the ball. i think they should have waited a game (until after the TNT game) – it was really hard to watch & Collins tried his best to be diplomatic, but ouch.

as to why he only played 19. Turiaf finished much more effectively on the rolls. Hunter played well – and the team seemed to play it’s best when he was in (they happened to be +15 in his 17 minutes). if not for the 5 fouls, he probably would have played more. He & Tolliver defended Martin & Nene the best (in fairness, it seemed like the refs let these 2 play a lot more physical) though i think those two had more problems keeping the Nuggets off the offensive glass (in fairness, Ronny & Andris did as well). it seemed like Nellie was adamant on keeping George on Anthony and there was a ~10 minute stretch where Denver went small with Anthony at the 4.

he also might have just been a victim of circumstance with the way the game was going when he was in (-15 in 17 minutes & played the last 2 garbage time minutes). Ronny was -8 in 22 minutes until that 5 minute 4th quarter stint where the Nuggets went on a 15-2 (18-3 overall) run, but up until then, they’d been fairly competitive in his minutes & that -8 came mostly when he played with Biedrins. so it might have just been that the team seemed to fall behind with Andris on the court & seemed to catch up when he wasn’t – so Nellie stuck with the line up that was doing the catching up.

by homer simpson on Feb 26, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

as Nellie noted that Curry could have had 20+ assists if the bigs just finished

Not to diminish Curry’s passing last night, which was fabulous, but I think this talking point tends to get overblown. A lot of Curry’s passes that supposedly “should’ve” been assists were sent to bigs who were cutting in traffic. They were great passes, but let’s not pretend those shots always should go down — bigs, even good ones, will miss some of those or simply get fouled on a bunch of those. A lot of those cuts were made at angles that made finishing very difficult.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Feb 26, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

CP3 should have 30 assists a game!

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 26, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

? i didn’t say should. it says could.

off memory though, Andris had a wide open finish slip out of his hands early on for a brick, Turiaf had the one where it looked like he got rejected by the rim and there was that meaningless late one where Curry goes behind the back and Tolliver blows a wide open lay up (after a nice pump fake to get the out of position rotating guard to fly by).

by homer simpson on Feb 26, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions  

er….. 1st paragraph should read “it didn’t” not “i didn’t”

2nd paragraph are 3 that probably should have been assists since no one was on them and most bigs would have dunked those home. i’m pretty sure the Andris one happens really early & the Tolliver one really late. not sure on the Turiaf one, but i want to say 3rd qtr.

by homer simpson on Feb 26, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions  

In the Nellie post game

He said that Monta had a bad back and missed shootaround. Nellie said he wasn’t even sure if he’d have Monta at all. So it’s difficult to tell how much of Monta’s poor performance is due to his bad back.

by IQofaWarrior on Feb 26, 2010 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

I just don’t get Nelson. When the guy he leans on the most is injured and not playing well, he still plays him all game long as he shoots us out of the game, yet when a guy like Biedrins has some struggles but still contributes in other ways, he’s riding the bench and in the doghouse. It seems to me one of Nelson’s worst attributes is his focus on offense/scoring/taking shots. He seems to value guys that do that (even if it’s not helping us win) way too much, while undervaluing guys that do things like rebound and play defense if they don’t contribute how Nellie wants them to on offense. I think we have a systematic problem within our organization of focusing on offense at the expense of defense/rebounding, and Nellie is a big part of it, and it’s a big part of our defense/rebounding woes.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

The main difference between Monta and Biedrins

is that Monta is executing his plays, and Biedrins is not. I think I saw Biedrins fail to roll to the basket on 2 separate occasions, and each time, he was pulled out soon after. I noted this in the open thread at the time they happened. If I have time, I’ll rewatch Biedrin’s stints again and see if what I saw was correct, or if it was a coincidence and Biedrins was pulled because of matchup reasons.

I don’t think Biedrins was pulled because he missed easy layups or dunks under the basket, because he was doing what he was supposed to do – be aggressive and try to score. So I was fine with that part of his performance. Biedrins first needs to rebuild his confidence in consistently getting towards the hoop, and then he can sharpen his accuracy and finish.

by IQofaWarrior on Feb 26, 2010 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, that sounds a lot along the lines of what I was suggesting the last couple days in the thread about Nellie’s public comments about Biedrins – run some stuff for him, get his mindset/expectations to be that he needs to look to shoot more, and worry about results later. We have years of results telling us Biedrins is effective when he’s doing those things, so we just have to get him doing them again.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

i get the feeling monta is gone come summer

and nellie is trying to inflate his stats for trade value. We know how Nellie is

by tafkasam on Feb 26, 2010 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

WHAT?

You can’t relate Andris to Wallace!
Wallace never had an offensive game, never averaged a double-double over the course of a season, Andris has, this is not Nellie trying to take heat off himself, this is a ‘where has Andris gone?’ problem!

by Lew Ghost on Feb 26, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Azubuike’s "mustache"?

I most definitely have a problem with this.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Feb 26, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

What?

He’s not offering you any rides?

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 26, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions  

MB, it is typical Nellie. If you are a guard or a wing, and you are not having a good night, you get left out there because hey, a shooter shoots, right? But if you are a big man in this offense, those same rules do not apply because you are probably not scoring much anyway.

Exactly. All the dissecting of the struggles of Biedrins ignores the fact that any player with a 20-foot jump shot, no matter how terrible, gets a much longer leash than he does. Nellie’s not capping Biedrins’s minutes because Biedrins is worse than other guys, he’s capping Biedrins’s minutes because Biedrins’s style is less Nellie-friendly than other guys. That might be justified if the team were going somewhere… since it isn’t, though, you think he’d give one of the team’s best players the same leeway that he gives, say, Anthony Tolliver.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Feb 26, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Let me introduce you to Vladimir Radmanovic?

Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com

by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 26, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions  

… who made the team substantially worse for twenty games before Nellie finally did something about it. Vlad’s a crappy player and always has been… Biedrins is a pretty good player and always has been. It doesn’t strike you as a problem that Biedrins hadn’t earned any more benefit of the doubt than Vlad, in Nellie’s eyes?

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Feb 26, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Yep, and that goes to my point about him undervaluing things like defense and rebounding while overvaluing certain parts of offensive performance he’s interested in, and how we have a systematic problem in our organization right now that causes us to look for certain types of offense rather than things we need to help win. If a guy can shoot, or create shots for himself, Nellie will play him and let him shoot us out of the game and give him a huge leash (see Monta, Baron, Jack, Crawford, etc)….but even a guy that can contribute on offense, just in a limited way like Biedrins, struggles to get the minutes he should…..

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

This sums up all my feelings for Don Nelson’s coaching philosophy. He praises low efficient ball hogs like they are Lebron James, but if you are a big man who can’t shoot, but are good at everything else, he won’t give you credit.
He says Monta is so key for us….why can’t he see we play better when he doesn’t play at all….why does he like Maggette at the 4 so much. Why does he think Turiaf is better than Biedrins?
Nellie is a bad coach, MB just summed up why.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Feb 26, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

As a rule of thumb, I no longer trust “injuries” that Nellie reports unless they are confirmed by a player or from a player through a trusted media source.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Feb 26, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

As an A's fan...

I dunno I kinda feel bad for Biedrins, he’s clearly got something wrong in his head, it’s not the depression that Justin Duchscherer had or that Zack Greinke had, but maybe he needs to get some help on his mental end from a shrink or anyone of that sort.
We know he can get double-doubles, and we know he can shoot about 50% from the line, so maybe some mental help is what he needs…

by Lew Ghost on Feb 26, 2010 12:50 PM PST reply actions  

+1

Yea he definitely has some confidence issues going on right now, its impossible to play well when you have lost your confidence.

This is my city Oakland, California just to be exact il tell you where its at. Pick up a globe pick up a map see San Francisco cross the water right there exact....
- Mista F.A.B.

by TheRealRocWill on Feb 26, 2010 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Most over paid

COREY MAGGETTE!

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Feb 26, 2010 1:09 PM PST reply actions  

LOL, love your form bro

One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!

Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!

by ejdacanay on Feb 26, 2010 1:36 PM PST reply actions  

MattSteinmetzCSN

C.J. Watson: no appendicitis, tests reveal, according to Warriors

by IQofaWarrior on Feb 26, 2010 2:04 PM PST reply actions  

Should we start the Andris Biedrins airball count?

2 airballed EASY shots less than 3 feet from the rim last night.

How can anyone 6 years into their NBA career be this unskilled?

Nellie went out of his way to run plays for him. His teammates went out of their way to get him the ball in good spots. Do NOT blame them.

Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com

by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 26, 2010 2:14 PM PST reply actions  

No

We should not.

Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"

by dubzfan on Feb 26, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

No

First I want to see if he can get over his mental hump and consistently and aggressively work towards the basket throughout the game. Getting over that self confidence hump is not something that can happen with the snap of a finger or in 1 game. It takes some time to rebuild a strong mindset. So the airball count is the least of his problems right now.

by IQofaWarrior on Feb 26, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

At least AB1's constant harping on the same issue allows the rest of us to come up with interesting responses...

And we don’t have to drive 10 hours to use our “Jerk Store.”

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 26, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Exactly!

I like to think I bring out the best in people.

Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | SBNation.com

by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 26, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions  

How can anyone 6 years into their NBA career be this unskilled?

  This is not new news, we were sayin this when they dumped JRich to make room to pay Montay and Dre.
   Nellie chose this route now he’s crying cause he won’t change his “system” to make it work? Just come up with a solution or trade the kid instead of making him out to be the bad guy, Dre can’t help not being as talented as CWebb so not getting the same sympathy but he’s in the same position of being a Nellie victim (as we fans all are again).

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 26, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions  

This is not new news, we were sayin this when they dumped JRich to make room to pay Monta

Oh wow, give youself a big pat on the back LOL (ehe)

by Cryptic on Feb 26, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

give youself a big pat on the back

 it wasn’t that hard to see coming after living thru nellie ver.1

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 26, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Warriors have to rebuild thru draft

no big time free agents coming this way, Warriors have to be creative if they want to unload contracts of Maggette & Biedrins like they did with overpaid former Warriors Jamison, Dunleavy, Murphy, Richardson, & Foyle.

Look how the Thunder have improved thru the draft the last 3 years- drafted Durant, Westbrook, Harden, traded Ray Allen & drafted Green, & let Rashard Lewis go in free agency.

by montazing on Feb 26, 2010 2:25 PM PST reply actions  

Maggette, I agree, Biedrins isn’t overpaid, though.

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

PTI loves Curry

I feel like every time I catch it on, they talk about Curry. They did the report card thing, and gave Curry an A and an A+ for his performance last night. Wilbon says that move on Birdman got him a B+ by itself, and his play put him over the top.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Feb 26, 2010 2:58 PM PST reply actions  

I have to take issue with the word “great rebounding” ever being used in the same sentence as “Turiaf”.

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Feb 26, 2010 3:02 PM PST reply actions  

And, I’m tired of seeing all the good, well payed players not doing well under Nellie. How many times is it going to be the players fault before we all wise up and call for a new coach?

Quit making the theiving Wall Street Fat-Cat Bankers even richer.
moveyourmoney.info

by cybermaldonado on Feb 26, 2010 3:04 PM PST reply actions  

i feel u

But for all the crazy things Nellie has done, you got to remember he has consistently had to coach a depleted roster with two d-leagers currently getting major minutes. Yea he may not be the coach he used to be, but there is no way this team can be competitive consistently with 5 of their top 8 players out ( Buike, Raja, Randolf, Wright, Maggette) and two others (Ronny and Biedrins) missing significant time this year. No coach could have succeeded in the situation this team is in right now.

This is my city Oakland, California just to be exact il tell you where its at. Pick up a globe pick up a map see San Francisco cross the water right there exact....
- Mista F.A.B.

by TheRealRocWill on Feb 26, 2010 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

there is no way this team can be competitive consistently with 5 of their top 8 players out ( Buike, Raja, Randolf, Wright, Maggette) and two others (Ronny and Biedrins) missing significant time this year.

Raja’s an aging mediocrity, and we traded for him knowing full well he’d get surgery… he was just an expiring contract to us. Putting him in our top 8 strikes me as a stretch.

While we’ve definitely been very injured this year, at some point there’s a risk of overstating the case. Curry’s played in every game, Monta’s only missed five, Maggette only seven. CJ and Morrow have been available over 80% of the time… both Biedrins and Randolph have been available for over half of our games this year, Turiaf right around half. Wright and Azubuike’s absence have definitely hurt, but I don’t think many people actually thought our fortunes rested on those two this year. Azubuike’s absence has meant more minutes for Maggette and Morrow, which isn’t much of a downgrade, if it’s a downgrade at all.

The fact that Biedrins and Turiaf were out simultaneously was obviously a huge problem, and it’s not like this team would be a world-beater even if healthy. Nobody’s saying a different coach would have us over .500 right now. But there’s a difference between being a bad team and being a bad and underachieving team. Right now, it seems to me that we’re the latter, and considering how hard the guys are all playing, I don’t see how that’s not on Nellie’s head.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Feb 26, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Not that I disagree with your overall point, but I don’t think we can overstate the injury case. The few minutes I caught of the game while I was at a bar last night I saw the stat that we had more starting lineups and more total games missed due to injury than any other team in the NBA, and it doesn’t help when those injuries are disproportionately to your already thin front line, and generally seem to happen at the same time….

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Both of those stats play into the franchise’s attempts to deflect blame… unfortunately, both are misleading.

First, lineups. Our league-leading number of starting lineups has as much to do with Nellie’s restlessness as it does injuries. Let’s take the last twelve games as an example. If Nellie had simply started the most-played available guy at each position, he’d have used a total of five starting lineups:

1/31: Curry, Monta, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins (1)
2/2: Curry, Monta, CJ, Tolliver, Biedrins (2)
2/3: Curry, Monta, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/6: Curry, Monta, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/8: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins (3)
2/10: Curry, CJ, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins (4)
2/16: Curry, Morrow, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins (5)
2/17: Curry, Morrow, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/19: Curry, Monta, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/21: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/23: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/25: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins

How many different lineups did Nellie actually use? Eleven.

1/31: Curry, Monta, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins (1)
2/2: Curry, Monta, Vlad, Tolliver, Biedrins (2)
2/3: Curry, Monta, Maggette, Turiaf, Biedrins (3)
2/6: Curry, Monta, Karl, Maggette, Biedrins (4)
2/8: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Turiaf, Biedrins (5)
2/10: Curry, CJ, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins (6)
2/16: Curry, Morrow, Maggette, Tolliver, Biedrins (7)
2/17: Curry, CJ, Morrow, Maggette, Biedrins (8)
2/19: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Maggette, Biedrins (9)
2/21: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins (10)
2/23: Curry, Monta, Morrow, Tolliver, Biedrins
2/25: Curry, Monta, George, Turiaf, Biedrins (11)

Nellie’s gone super-big and super-small, he’s shuffled guys like Tolliver and Morrow in and out of the lineup, and in various games, he’s seen fit to start Vlad, Coby Karl and Devean George. The Warriors have used more starting lineups in the last four weeks than most teams have all season.

The wretched Curry/Monta/Morrow/Vlad/Mikki quintet started ten games… eight of those were coached by Keith Smart. No other Warriors lineup has been used more than three times. Just to repeat that for emphasis: Nellie hasn’t used a single starting lineup more than three times this year. Injuries explain a fair amount, but they don’t explain that.

Now let’s talk about those injuries. It’s true — the Warriors have missed more games due to injury than any other team. But 128 of those missed games have been recorded by

1) Raja Bell, a guy that the Warriors knew would be undergoing surgery when they traded for him,

2) Speedy Claxton, a guy that the Warriors hoped would be unavailable when they traded for him, and

3) Devean George, a guy whose availability the Warriors flat-out didn’t care about when they traded for him.

For most of the season, the Warriors devoted 20% of their roster space to three largely unavailable players. Now, you can argue that that was a worthwhile decision. And I suppose you could argue that Nellie was powerless to change that decision, (though I’d tend to think otherwise). But those 128 missed games didn’t come about through bad luck. They came about by design, and to non-rotation guys.

When it comes to rotation players, the Warriors have had bad injuries, but not uniquely bad. The Blazers have lost as many games from rotation guys, and their injuries have affected important players more than ours have… Roy’s missed fifteen games to Monta’s five, Oden and Przybilla have missed more games than Biedrins and Turiaf (though Camby will now soften that blow), Batum and Outlaw were both out for months. They haven’t had their planned starting lineup together for a single game, and they’re 16 /12 games ahead of us.

Point is, while it’s been a chaotic season, much more of that chaos has been self-inflicted than the team would have you believe. Poor decision-making by the front office and Nellie has made a tough situation much, much tougher.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Feb 26, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

a bad team and being a bad and underachieving team. Right now, it seems to me that we’re the latter,

  I’d say we’re the former. a half dozen D leaguers, some old salary dump dudes, marginal cripples, led by a rookie shouldn’t beat ATL much less NJ? The problem is not their effort it’s nellie’s idea of what makes a good team. Give him DHo and he’d run him off for VladRad so he could stretch out the defense. Nellie doesn’t want to win he just wants to play his games on the court and in the head, fooled once was understandable but fooled twice is unforgivable ?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 26, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant to put Biedrins

the guy is making 9 mil and is putting up weak numbers. I hope he doesn’t become the new Foyle.

by duballers23 on Feb 26, 2010 3:53 PM PST reply actions  

What numbers of his are weak, exactly? What about him is even remotely like Foyle?

by Missing Barry on Feb 26, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

He had a couple airballs last night

THEREFORE he is Adonal Foyle. Oh wait, that’s ridiculous.

by Reverend_Randy on Feb 26, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

He’s no Foyle until he rolls a shot over the backboard

So let me get this straight... Maggette is the healthy guy.
"Winning is not enough. All others must lose." - Larry Ellison

by Badly Browned on Feb 26, 2010 7:19 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope he doesn’t become the new Foyle.

lol. Adonal Foyle played in only 48 games in a season where he was completely healthy & averaged 9.9 min/g. guessing, but over 50% of his minutes probably came in garbage time.

Andris has played in every game that he has been healthy. i know a lot of ppl are having a heart attack over his reduced playing time, but he’s only averaging 4 to 6.7 minutes less than he did the last 3 seasons in a season where he’s undoubtedly struggled by his own admission.

he’s struggled some since his injuries dating back all the way to last season & everyone who watches the games can tell the FT’s are in his head, but this just isn’t as big of a deal as some people are making it.

by homer simpson on Feb 26, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Adonal Foyle played in only 48 games in a season where he was completely healthy & averaged 9.9 min/g.

 Yeah, and in season where we needed a big inside player to beat utah and nellie never got him ready.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 26, 2010 9:35 PM PST reply actions  

Right...

If only Foyle had gotten more PT, we would have beaten Utah.

by Aliengames on Feb 26, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

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