Measuring the value of B-Wright and AR.
by cnostril on Mar 19, 2010 10:20 AM PDT
49 comments
First off, AR and B-Wright are extremely talented players with major flaws in their game. AR remains the most frustrating player to watch on the Warriors roster for a bunch of reasons. He is such a raw talent that it's extremely hard to figure out his upside. Sometimes he looks like he is playing a pickup game, running around aimlessly with no consideration to his teammates. This is where I get frustrated. The dude has seen a decent amount of playing time and hasn't really shown any significant changes. It makes me wonder if he will ever live up to the hype, or just keep holding us back. If anyone, I would say he is our NUMBER 1 trade asset.
Brandan Wright on the other hand is a more toned, stick to the basics player. He has post moves, is extremely composed, and has a more mature all around game. He seems like a team player and is obviously a good learner while AR seems like a headcase. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing AR play on another team because I don't think he will be that good.
Now this is my first post and it is challenging for me to speculate because I don't dig into the stats. I have watched pretty much every game for the past 6 years and I am basing this off what I see these guys do on the court. I am firm that Anthony Randolph should be our #1 trade asset.
Here's what we do, assuming we draft a solid PF (Cousins?)
Package Randolph, Maggette, Biedrins + Filler if needed... For...
1. Iggy and Dalambert
2. Ginobli and Blair
3. Thornton and West/Okafur
4. Jefferson and Brewer
5. Hamilton/Gordon and Villinova
6. Stoudamire and JRich
I like Iggy and Dalambert best, What you guys think?
That would leave us with...
Curry/Watson
Monta/Morrow
Iggy/Buike/Bell
Wright/Cousins/Tolliver?
Dalambert/Turiaf/Hunter?
Barring injuries, that would be a playoff squad. Especially after we see some more development from Curry (maybe cousins), and get Buike/Bell/Wright back.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
0 recs |
49 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Shoulder injury?
Wright is such a major question mark with TWO season-ending injuries to the same shoulder. I would say he is a much higher risk than Randolph.
Labrum Repair
Wright is such a major question mark with TWO season-ending injuries to the same shoulder.
I think this is a common misconception. After the first dislocation (getting dunked on by Gasol), Wright opted to do physical therapy in lieu of surgery. This is very often ineffective for shoulder instability, but players often first elect that route because it doesn’t cost them as much time.
He missed this season because he realized he had to get the surgery. I had the same procedure done eight years ago, and at the that time research was showing only a 10% recurrence rate for dislocation. I’m sure the surgeons have improved on that by now. Dwyane Wade had the same operation in 2007 and he hasn’t had any problems with his shoulder. And Wade certainly plays a more physical game than Brandan Wright.
So, I think calling him injury prone or a question mark is unfair when he didn’t fix it the first time.
by wheresmylaptop on Mar 19, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Your title is misleading.
I expected an objective analysis of both players, but you clearly have a preference for BW. This is just another trade post disguised with a good title. But welcome to GSOM.
another trade post disguised with a good title.
Meh. Giving Wright a generic hoops “first initial / surname” nickname and not taking three seconds to type out “Randolph” (or at least “Rudolf”) should have been warning signs.
Bottom line with these two: obviously neither is untouchable if someone offers you something really good for them, but given their ages and recent injury history, moving either of them now would almost certainly be selling low.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 19, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Objective Analysis..
Yeah, after looking it over I guess I was a bit objective. And I agree that the shoulder injuries are a red flag. To be honest, I want to see a season with these two dudes sharing the PF spot. I just figure one will pretty much be injured at all times. I just like B-Wright’s game, especially watching him own Josh Smith.
He is such a raw talent that it's extremely hard to figure out his upside.
Don’t make it harder than it is….When the Mop is on the floor his shoes are on his downside.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2010 11:06 AM PDT reply actions
In fairness, Rudolf flies around and falls over so much on court that this is not always the case.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 19, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think we can count on either Wright or AR
Neither have been healthy for us to evaluate this year and neither has done anything that special when their on the court. They are very young and loaded with potential but that makes them good trade candidates this offseason. This team needs to change something and if there is a positive perception around the league on these two guys we should def think about moving one or both of them. Unlikely Wright has any value though.
This team needs to change something
So let’s trade our only player with an outside chance of becoming a franchise-type talent, at the low point of his trade value, as punishment for spraining his ankle so severely? Does it even matter we’re getting in return, or is it sufficient just to make a move? Hey, I hear Iverson might be available…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 19, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Franchise talent? That’s a bit of a stretch. He’s a lot closer to a Tyrus Thomas, in my estimation. A load of potential, but that potential is always in the future, somewhere.
Given it’s only his 3rd year next year.. just glance at how far Curry has come in his first year.. How long will it take for “Rudolf” to hone this “talent” he possesses. How many losing seasons do we have to wait for this? I think B-Wright is much further along in honing his skills and if you were to draw a comparison, Bwright is much closer to being a C-Bosh type player then Randolph. I disagree that his trade value is low too. I think Biedrins, Randolph, and Maggette would net us a solid player to help build around Curry and Monta. My question is, would you rather have Randolph or draft a new PF?
I agree too.. Tyrus Thomas type talent especially with the attitude factor. He’s real young so that may change but I’m looking at Curry and Monta as the future of this franchise as of now.
How long will it take for "Rudolf" to hone this "talent" he possesses.
How about a year and four months? That’s how long it will be till he’s Curry’s current age. (Nice effort to make him sound like a third-year player, tho). As a 20 year-old, he had already significantly honed his skills relative to his 19 y.o. / rookie season. After a rather rocky start to his rookie season, whenever he’s gotten real, consistent minutes, he’s tended to produce.
How many losing seasons do we have to wait for this?
How many of our losing seasons was Randolph responsible for? And since Webber, how many other Warriors’ big men have had the same combo of youth, size, explosiveness, skills, and actual production as Randolph? (Hint: zero; and … zero).
I think B-Wright is much further along in honing his skills and if you were to draw a comparison, Bwright is much closer to being a C-Bosh type player then Randolph.
I like Wright a lot too, but I suspect when you talk about “skills” here, you’re talking exclusively about offensive skills. Randolph’s a better shot-blocker and much better rebounder than Wright. Rebounding tends not to vary much in players as they age, and — as much as any other skill — tends to result in wins for a team. Randolph’s also a year and a half younger, a couple inches taller, and stronger and more explosive than Wright; and his injury issues seem much less likely to be chronic.
My question is, would you rather have Randolph or draft a new PF?
Depends on the new PF. From what I’ve seen/read, I’d take Randolph over Favors, and probably over Cousins. Outside of a healthy Blake Griffin, I’m not sure there are any young PFs I’d rather have than Randolph.
I’m looking at Curry and Monta as the future of this franchise as of now.
And I’m looking at Curry and Randolph. I like Monta a lot, but I think you may be overestimating the value of a volume-shooting slightly undersized scoring guard, and underestimating the value of a freakish 6 foot 11 defensive/rebounding fool. Especially when the former is at his physical peak and making $11 million a year and the latter is still maturing and has two cheap years left on his rookie contract.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 19, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, yeah, hence: “outside chance.” He obviously has the physical tools and the elite rebounding and defensive chops to get there. He was starting to show signs of improved offensive efficiency when he went down to injury — shooting better, getting himself to the FT line, cutting down on the turnovers and honing his passing skills. Already, even with his raw game, I think Randolph has a more positive impact on wins than garbage all-offense “scoring big men” like Bargnani and Al Jefferson. I just don’t see how Randolph’s value in trade, in a market where scoring and per game production are paramount, can possibly outstrip his value to us as a 20 year-old superathletic 6-11" rebounding and defensive machine.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 19, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Good points and I really can’t argue. We haven’t seen these two play much thus far. I’m just comparing how far Curry has come in a years time with how far Rudolf has come in roughly 1 and 1/2 years time. He could be a beast in a couple years or a bust. You have to keep in mind that his trade value may diminish over time. But I’ll bet we hold on to them both another year to see how it plays out.
You should post on RealGM
Over there they care more about trade value and assets than actually winning games.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I’m just comparing how far Curry has come in a years time with how far Rudolf has come in roughly 1 and 1/2 years time.
but you gotta consider their ceiling and the uniqueness of Rudolfs size and skills? He could dominate games if he ever gets his it-shay together-eh. Curry-bury was already a lot more polished from his college career so naturally he’s gonna look better sooner (and be closer to his ceiling sooner).
Now BrokenWing is a different story, he could be quite good but I don’t see him having the upside of Rudolf, he’s just not as unique as the young flying reindeer?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
he’s just not as unique as the young flying reindeer?
That made me laugh.
"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"
by Missing Barry on Mar 19, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I would vote to give them next year to see if they can develope into something/BW stay healthy.
I would agree with sleepy that at present we would not get the trade value that we would after they have the chance to show what they can or cannot do. Then we can decided to keep or trade at better value.
by Only In Fairfax on Mar 19, 2010 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
Why I'm not crazy about the Philly deal:
Philly is a bad team. They’re only 5 games better than us and haven’t had our injury nightmare.
Igloudala is their best player. Dalembert is their second-best player. Those two guys, playing together … not a winner unless you surround them with some other talent.
But you’re giving up Randolph, Beidrins, and Magette (wait, they do this deal without getting a guard back? Uh, no. Include Monta and maybe they’re interested) so basically you’re turning us intho the 76ers west+ Curry. Now, I like Curry, but … how is that a core that’s going to win a lot more than Phily is winning right now?
Monta?
I’m very hesitant in giving up Monta because once he matures a bit more, and Curry becomes a solid “B-Diddy” type player with Monta at SG, they will a lethal tandem. It would be tough to watch Monta light it up on another team.
Add in a Ginobli/Iggy type player playing SF, and a solid anchor center, were a playoff team, with a deep bench. As you all know as W’s fans, were two solid pieces away from being a contending force. Curry and Monta are the future of this squad, Morrow is decent and Randolph is decent, but i’ve seen Tolliver and Williams walk in on 10 day contracts and could easily take the place of those two with out much damage. That’s gotta say something about their future in the NBA.
Is there really room on the floor for Iggy, Monta, and Curry?
That’s my question. It’s not about whether or not I think Monta is going to discover his lost efficiency … but even if he does, I’m not sold that those three guys work well on the floor together. Azuikuike and Morrow are not as good as Iggy, but they make much more sense as a SF to pair with Curry and either Monta or Iggy.
LOL @ Curry becoming BD type player.
This diary gets better and better.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
BD type player = a player that allows Monta to play his natural SG position, where he is the most effective.
Don’t know what your aim is but Baron Davis was/is a GOOD point guard. Can drive the lane strong/finish, play good defense, and make the people around him better ie. Monta. He proved this in the 2007 run right? Once Curry gets to that level, and Monta accepts his role, they will be good together.
Ronaldinho, looking into it, your probably right. Monta and Iggy both command the ball a lot so maybe its not a good idea.
Can drive the lane strong/finish, play good defense, and make the people around him betterie[e.g., unless Monta is the only player he could ever make better]. Monta. He proved this in the 2007 run right? Once Curry gets to that level, and Monta accepts his role, they will be good together.
I’m curious when Curry is going to simultaneously gain 30 solid pounds to be able to push around larger off-guards while also gaining the sort of explosive speed and hops to compete in the dunk contest.
Curry could become a rather good player, but he won’t be the sort of player that Baron was. Baron was a gifted athlete in addition to having excellent floor vision. Curry might have signs of the latter and could develop further in that regard, but he doesn’t appear to have that freakish combination of strength built into a body that is still fluidly quick that Baron displayed.
Curry becomes a solid "B-Diddy" type player
Haha, You want me to feed him beer and donuts?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 19, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
Who has the picture of him on his couch with all the candy next to him?
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
Found it...
I don’t know why I enjoy this picture so much, but I do.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
What’s he watching? Somehow it looks like a cheezy horror flick. Scream? The Ring? Or possibly Punch Drunk Love…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Mar 20, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2kBCeFxaz0
Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!
Yes and No
Wright’s been with us 3 years, in 2 of them he’s been out with injury. Randoilph has a year and a half healthy out of 2 seasons.
Randolph has the capability of being a huge factor in a very short period of floor minutes.
By a number of major metrics, efficiency rating per 48 minutes, APER, PER, Randolph ranks in every one in the top #39, NBA players. THAT IS EXCELLENT! In the AWS rating, he’s in the top 99.
In efficiency per 48 mintes on the floor. Randolph is ranked 22nd in the NBA against all others with his number of minutes played, ahead of Kobe, M. Gasol, Bynum,, A Jefferson.. His scoring per 36 minutes is 19.1 pts. a game. His rebound rate per 36 minutes is 10.3. His TS% is only 52.1., I suspect that will improve as he rounds out his game and develops that little midrange shot he has.
I’m not saying the jury still isn’t out on Randolph. It is important to note that before coming to the NBA Randolph only had 3 years of organized ball behind him, I believe only 2 years of high school and his one year of college ball.
No one will contest that Randolph can look awkward, and occasionally looks like he doesn’t know what he’s doing, but I wonder how much this would have been an issue if we had a different coach who let Randolph play through his mistakes. I’m afraid Nelly’s bully pulpit and Bob Fitzgerald’s unswerving, subservient support of Nelly tends to win the anti- Randolph public relations battle over the air and print media..
by War Years Legacy on Mar 19, 2010 12:08 PM PDT reply actions
Randolph could have been much better served by 3 years in top college program.
Did not get to play much untill the end of last year and injured much of this year. He needs time to develope and could use individual coaching attention (assuming he is coachable)
by Only In Fairfax on Mar 19, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I think his TS% will go up when he starts taking the ball to the hole more
he’s already a really good free throw shooter (for his position at least).
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 20, 2010 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions
The only thing I want to note is Maggette is probably a negative in terms of trade value, so if you’re including him in a deal that Randolph is the centerpiece of, he probably brings Randolph’s value down. Biedrins probably doesn’t have much value either, given his contract and what he did this year, so essentially you’re looking at Randolph having to be worth close to Igoudala and Dalembert (or whatever other trade you’re proposing) on his own tradevalue-wise to make it a workable deal.
"Richmond, VA. For when West Virginia is too classy"
AR should be our trade piece?
No. No no no no. Beans should be the guy on the block not AR4.
We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…
Wonder what we could get
for Beans + Maggs (assuming we get the 3/4/5/6 pick), or Maggs + Ellis (Assuming we get the #1 or #2 pick).
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Just thinking about ideas
What about Beans and Wright for Okafor? This wouldn’t happen in the offseason so we can see what Wright has but if it’s not working inside this would help. I don’t know about the contracts, I just randomly thought of it
We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…
Anthony Randolph needs a proper coach mentor
Andrew Bynum had not even touched Anthony’s potential but look what Kareem did with him. Watching the games what I saw was that Randolph still makes silly mistakes but he makes the double more things that helps the team. In other words randolph mistakes may look immature but they cost the same then let’s say Monta 1-5 contested jumper which may look good but hurts the team just like Randolph out of control move to the basket hurts the team also. Randolph can become Bosh 2.0 with better D. How good that is?
dunno about that
Andrew Bynum had not even touched Anthony’s potential but look what Kare
Bynum turned 18 during the start of his first NBA season. His second year he turned 19 at start so slightly younger (but more or less comparable to a rookie AR)…. he shot 55.8% with a TS% or .593 rebounding at 10 per 36.
Randolph out of control move to the basket hurts the team also. Randolph can become Bosh 2.0 with better D.
But thats hardest thing to coach. Bynum played under control with aggressiveness. Out of control players,…. hard to change that habit
Roth joined the team this year
with experience in the d-league, international (Horford on the Dominican squad) ball, and tutoring ‘bigs’. He’s also been put in charge of giving the team offensive plays in specific situations at the end of games. Randolph obviously has unsteady temperament and attention, but Roth’s d-league experience might help—plenty of guys there with a couple of things in their games holding them back. Randolph also needs better teammates (playing style, not personality-wise) around him, guys like Curry, Bell, Turiaf rather than Jackson, Ellis, M’gette, Crawfor-.
The thing with BWright...
he has NO value to other teams, but to us he has incredible value because of what he could be. We know he’s a more polished player offensively than AR. I want to see him healthy for a season, I’m not sure if he can be PF of future but I am 100% positive he can be at least a 20 minute rotation big providing something.
It would be stupid to trade him.
When we drafted Randolph, people around here were saying he was a 3 year project and we needed to be patient.
Now people want to go back on that because…he was ahead of schedule his first two years?
There is nothing about that that makes sense.
Losing makes people impatient, especially when we’ve been doing it for so long. But we don’t need to get rid of a player who has only been here for two years of that like it is his fault.
Now people want to go back on that because…he was ahead of schedule his first two years?
Who wants to go back on that? This is a nebulous statement indicting the unnamed “people” rather than pointing to anything anyone has actually said. Such is often the case with strawmen arguments.
But we don’t need to get rid of a player who has only been here for two years of that like it is his fault.
There seems to be a popular line of “reasoning” that a number of posters are falling victim of. Namely, suggesting that Randolph is a potentially useful bargaining chip in trade is the same thing as wanting to “get rid of him”. It would be rather useful if people could sort out that the two are not synonyms. It shouldn’t be that difficult. I’m not aware who has said that the losing is “his fault”. I sense another ridiculous strawman.
Umm…read through the comments again then get back to me on the first one. When someone are putting Randolph’s talent as Randolph’s “talent” and asking how long it takes and how many losing seasons we will have to endure until he realizes his “talent”, I am pretty sure, yup, that’s what I’m talking about. If you want to get on me for saying “people” instead of someone, well that’s just me not trying to call the person out directly because it is his first post on here. Hell, you are doing the same thing in your second paragraph, I’d think you would understand.
If the Warriors were to draft John Wall I would think that Monta would be a potentially useful piece to trade…wait for it…and want to get rid of him. See? Not synonyms, but not mutually exclusive either. Seriously? Do you think Randolph is at the height of his trade value? If so, okay. If not, how is trying to trade him now because he is taking too long to realize his talent and the Warriors have been losing with him for awhile not getting rid of him?
I find it interesting that you are quick to call me out but when Sleepy Freud pointed out the same thing and asks “How many of our losing seasons was Randolph responsible for?” you say nothing. Seemingly, he interpreted the same thing from the comment. So either the person is suggesting that or he isn’t and I owe him apology and you need to be consistent in who you respond to.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Golden State Of Mind
Related FanShots on Golden State Of Mind
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
