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Our Warriors

It is sad to see what our Dubbs have become. For the first time in 15 years I have ZERO desire to watch this team. For the first time I have not had the burning desire to -Watch them, listento them or go to a game. For the first time I have ZERO desire to explain to my wife how much potential they have. For the first time can not defend this team.  I know this year I have been a BAD fan. But the only thing that will save this franchise in my opinion is:

1-Selling the team (Larry --PLEASE-PLEASE BUY THE TEAM!!!)

2- Fire Nelson (PLEASE -PLEASE BUY HIM OUT!!!) I could care less about him being the coach with most wins--What has he ever won??Zilch, ZERO, NADA.

3-Very sadly. Ellison must be traded. We have a guy who will be a great player--just not on this team(Very Sad). Maybe we can wrap him and Beans and get something that can team up with Curry.

4-This team must completely be blown up AGAIN. Thanks to the idiots in the front Office

5-Bring in a true GM and coach

Until the above is done. No one that we can call a star will come, why would they (unless it is for a boat load of money. We will continue to give bad contracts to players who at best are good players on great teams. There is no need to -name any players). I can't say I blame all the players that have come hear for the money. Not their fault we have idiots running the the organization.

At what point will the fans stand up and say enough is enough. We keep trying to convince ourselves that this is the year --year after year. We keep trying to convince ourselves that we have talent. We may have the rookie talent. But this alone will not make our beloved Dubbs win. We need a mix of rookies, veterans, and role players.

At what point will the Dubbs nation punish this front office? I know this is will not sit well with some of you--but if you hit them in the wallet (tickets) they will make the changes. At this point though attendance has dropped a little bit. It is still not enough for them to make the changes we all would like to see. Until this team shows any sign of life we are now in the Clipper category.  Please do not say if all were healthy, lets have our talented rookies develop--etc.... How many years have we been saying this??


This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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How can we trade Ellison?...

He’s not even on our team yet!

by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Mar 7, 2010 10:27 AM PST reply actions  

Hear Hear !!

What needs to happen;
Ellison buys team (please God answer our prayers and make that bad Mr. Cohan go away!)
FIRE ALL MANAGEMENT, C YA- ROWELL,RILEY AND NELSON !
Hire Jerry West as a consultant (part time GM) and maybe Chris Mullen as full time GM,or someone else of West’s recommendation
Hire a top flight (young) coach; Avery Johnson or Byron Scott
Emphasize playing up-tempo but PLAYING DEFENSE,REBOUNDING AND WORKING FOR A GOOD SHOT (jacking up a 3 with 18 seconds on the shot clock is not a good shot)
Our rebouding is alomost absent,ACQUIRE REBOUNDERS,ala Blair from San Antonio.
It pained me to see Sacramento get Carl laundry-he’d look great in a Warriors jersey
DEVELOP,INCULCATE AND DEMAND A CULTURE OF EXCELLENCE (Jerry “the logo” West can help here).
DO THESE THINGS AND MAYBE WE CAN GET BACK TO BELIEVING IN OUR WARRIORS, otherwise we remain the new Clippers !! :-(

Dr. Jeff

by JEFFSJAZZ on Mar 7, 2010 10:39 AM PST reply actions  

Hire a top flight (young) coach; Avery Johnson or Byron Scott

oxymoron. Avery & Byron are not top flight.

Defensive efficiency for the Mavs actually got worse under Avery than they were with Nellie. Avery tricked you & the analysts by slowing down the pace. Why’d they really get better? B/c they improved offensively. Primarily, Josh Howard (a 2nd yr player under Nellie) developed into an all-star & Devin Harris (a rookie under Nellie) developed into a competent starter which also allowed Jason Terry to play off the ball.

Jeff Bower > Byron Scott. Bower decided to play Collison & Thornton over scrubs like Mo Pete & Bobby Brown which has made all the difference for the Hornets from their 3-6 start. Besides, you want a coach who can get along with your best players not alienate Kidd, Martin, Baron, West, etc.,. Even with all the star PGs he’s coached in his 8 full seasons (10 overall), he’s a career .498 coach. Looks even worse when you consider he’s never had a team w/o someone who has been all-star, many seasons he’s had 2 such players.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Plus

Avery Johnson is terrible with player relations.

by golden_solitude on Mar 7, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Byron Scott

Scott took over two horrible teams: had 26 wins first year in NJ, 52 in second.Two finals.
18 wins first year in NO ,38 the second. Made NO meaningful in the West.
Kidd turned on him, but at the end of Kidd’s run they couldn’t wait for him to get out of NJ.
Paul loves hi,. Martin and West became All-Stars with Scott.
NO is still below .500.
How he was let go after 3-6 is hard to see.

by lrus on Mar 8, 2010 7:58 AM PST up reply actions  

It’s a bit of a stretch to credit Byron Scott with those turnarounds. In both cases, there were major personnel changes – acquiring Jason Kidd and Chris Paul. It’s not like Scott’s track record is the best, either – didn’t get along with Baron (who does?), didn’t get along with Kidd….maybe it’s his fault, maybe it isn’t, I don’t know, but to coach for sure a short time and have poor relationships with 2 players isn’t a good sign.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Credit Byron Scott

What good coach doesn’t try and get good players? He is the type of coach needed to turn over a roster. Scott was very demanding of his point guards, some couldn’t take the heat, (Larry Brown like),He played with
Magic why wouldn’t he be demanding on want a point guard could do for a team.
All in All, he is a coach with a winning record after about 10 years in the league.

by lrus on Mar 8, 2010 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

There is no way I’m giving Byron Scott credit for acquiring those players. Unless you have actual evidence he also has a hand in the GM moves (most coaches do not), there is no reason to assume he made it happen.

My real point is simply that I think it’s dishonest to present those turnarounds as related to Byron Scott without acknowledging the dramatic change in talent that was also present for it. I don’t claim to know how much was because of Scott and how much was simply because of the talent – I just think you have to acknowledge all the factors that contributed, and to do otherwise is misleading.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Especially not for Chris Paul

I guess you could give him credit for coaching an awful team that gave them a shot at getting Chris Paul.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Keith Smart = greatest coach of all time!

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Any good coach is going to have a say in personal, why would a good G M not be on the same page as his coach?

Rod Thorn was a smart G M from 00-05 with Scott, not so smart lately.

by lrus on Mar 8, 2010 1:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Even if he did get help acquire Chris Paul, I don't think he would deserve credit.

The draft is like a game of roulette, even if you win it is mainly luck. NO did good for drafting Paul, but at the time of the draft no one knew how good he was going to be and no one thought that it was ridiculous for three teams (i think) to pass up on him…

by freerandolph on Mar 9, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

We have talent we just need to make a few changes!

Remember:

Wright – 9 pts. 4 rebounds per 17 minutes in basically his rookie year

Randolph – 14 pts. 8 rebounds per 22 minutes

Bell – Can defend the other teams best gaurd/ small forward and is a 35-40 % three point shooter (dishes from curry will get him wide open looks to possibly increase percentage)

If we can get rid of Ellis, possible lineup:

PG – Curry / Watson
SG – Bell / Buike / Jennings (?)
SF – Randolph / Bell
PF – Wright / Cousins (?)
C – Turriaf / Beans

This could be a dangerous lineup, with the ability to go small or big, and if we can pick up someone from free agency after getting rid of Ellis, we could compete for a playoff seed next year with a young team, and possibly receive a 6 seed in two years.

by reppin510 on Mar 7, 2010 10:50 AM PST reply actions  

No

He’s a D league filler, nothing to do with a long term plan

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions  

He looks really good though. He’s a keeper in my opinion.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Who are we getting rid of to make space?...

Nelson loves Devean George,he’s the only possible candidate.

by Cpt. Jack in the Box on Mar 8, 2010 12:39 AM PST up reply actions  

That’s still a 25-35 win team & the difference between a 30 win team & a 40 win team is fairly significant in it’s own right.

The statistics say that your top 3 players have a lot more to do with a team’s wins than anything else. Getting a superstar is paramount. Just b/c they have a roster that has 12 legitimate supporting cast members doesn’t help much.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think Curry is going to be "supporting cast"

And if either Randolph or Wright improves (possibly a new coach), Curry to Wright/Randolph could be deadly. We would also have multiple 3 point shooting threats in Curry, Bell, Buike, Morrow, and Williams (or an assumed replacement for Ellis).

How is this team not similar to the great Hornets of a couple of years ago with a bright young point gaurd and a great, developing pf in D. West?

Not trying to get to argumental here but do you have any other suggestions?

by reppin510 on Mar 7, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Were nothing like Nola

This was 3 or so years ago when Nola was developing but your making it seem like Curry is will be as good as CP3 which he won’t. He will be good just not nearly that good, and West by then was much much mature as a player than AR or Wright. And they built there team through free agency while were building with young talent. A core of Curry, AR, Ellis, Turner/Whiteside/Cousins is great. If you give that core at least a year to develop and we have a very good squad. You didn’t see OKC panic last year after sucking and start yelling for Westbrook or KD’s head. You didn’t see them start saying we must trade KD cause his scoring does not translate into wins. Now look at them, you give them one extra piece (Harden) and time to gel and they are now a great team. Were in a more similar situation to OKC than Nola

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Were in a more similar situation to OKC than Nola

 except we don’t have Durant,Westbrook, Harden,Green, or Thunder?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 7, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I miss Thunder :(

But I’m not talking from a player stand point but in the way that theres promising talent that needs time to grow. Let the young guys fight through the bad times

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

How is that similar to OKC?
They have a superstar and two rising stars in Westbrook and Harden.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I doubt Harden will be a star

Look up a little for my response on similarities

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

There is no similarity though.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Again I'm not talking individual wise

But in the way that they had a terrible year but had promising talent, and so do we. I’m not saying were exactly the same or even that close but there are SOME similarities. Don’t dig to deeply

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

They had much better talent though!!!

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Your not understanding what I'm trying to say

I’m not saying were as good, have the same guys or that we will make the jump to the playoffs. I’m saying we both have developing players, some great some just good and we need to let them grow together like how they did. Don’t take the comparison literally, I’m just saying there are similarities there

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

We don’t need to let these guys to develop only. While i like our young players, they aren’t getting us to the championship, which OKC’s young talent possibly can do within the next few years. It is mainly because they have a superstar, and the best player out our bunch is Steph Curry, who is no superstar.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

You don't know that for sure

How do you know one of our many young talented players won’t develop into a superstar? Curry will be a superstar someday, and we could draft an Evan Turner possibly or pick up a superstar or quality player if free agency. Some of these guys get better by the week bro, who knows how good they could be together, you don’t know for sure, so try being a bit more optimistic. If we start next season with no drama and keep a pretty healthy roster, loaded with talent and hopefully good veterans like Bell and George, it might pan out next year.

by wileyschmitt on Mar 12, 2010 2:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Bell and George

  haha, Ren and Stempy?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 12, 2010 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 12, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I got what you were trying to say

just that it’s a super shallow comparison because of the difference in talent.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

I really liked Harden before the draft. But who knows, maybe he’s embraced full roll-player duties. When I’ve seen him, he’s really just tried to fit in, rather than try and make an impact. However it’s also good that he’s not trying to force anything.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.

RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."

(MT)

by kenntoe on Mar 7, 2010 6:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Seriously overrating Curry here. When CP3 1st joined the Hornets, he helped a team that won 18 games the season before, win 38 in his rookie season. even as rookies, most advanced statistics have CP3 dwarfing Curry.

David West didn’t improve as much as people think. He was injured in yr 2 (played in only 30 games), but his rookie output (where he put up 2.8 WS in 930 minutes & had an oRtg of 110 vs a 100 dRtg) shows the general TS% improvement that most players show in their 1st 3 seasons along with the increase in usage that generally results from a young player who takes a back seat to a vet.

Rarely in the history of the NBA does anyone develop the way Nash has. Counting on that from 3 players just b/c they happen to be Warriors is only going to lead to disappointment.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Curry and Paul

Stats from Rookie seasons (both have/had averaged 36 minutes):

Curry: 16 pts, 5.4 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 46% fg, 42% 3 pt fg
Paul: 16.1 pts. 8.2 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 43% fg, 28% 3 pt. fg

Paul averaged many more assists, although Curry’s assists will go up when he gets the healthy squad around him, while Curry does have a large advantage in 3 pt. shooting.

I am just saying I think we should see what a healthy group could do next year around Curry, because as of now I think he is our future.

by reppin510 on Mar 7, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Yea, I haven't seen much CP3 in Curry this year.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.

RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."

(MT)

by kenntoe on Mar 7, 2010 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Odd comparison as it shows Paul is the far better passer and rebounder, while Curry is the far better shooter.
Then as you see Paul starts to become an elite level scorer and shooter, so unless Curry can improve his shooting from the field, and his passing there is no comparison.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

while Curry is the far better shooter.

not really, rookie TS% Curry 56.0% vs CP3 54.6%.

If you look at all the advanced stats that compensate for pace, the rookie version of CP3 pretty much crushes Curry.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Curry is a better shooter than Paul. Not that I disagree with your overall point – Paul is on pace to be one of the two greatest PG’s of all time and Curry simply isn’t in his league, but just talking about their shooting ability….Curry is the better shooter. TS% is a measure of how effective a scorer someone is, not how good a shooter they are…

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 10:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, CP3 is going to considered an all time great if ESPN can actually tell the casual fans how good he is.
And when i mean all time great, i mean all the publicity, and recognition that stars of his playing caliber get.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions  

So Curry at a little under 1 rebound per game..

Makes Paul a ‘far better’ rebounder??? Please….

The reality is…. IF… Steph can increase his assist level, (which he will if the team is purely focused arund him) and with a small increase in rebounding ability… He will actually look better than Paul, due to his shooting capability..

So these claims that Curry will ‘never’ be as good as Paul are frankly laughable.

"LOVE WARRIORS - HATE COHAN" - Sell The Team!

by BritWarriorGSW on Mar 8, 2010 6:25 AM PST up reply actions  

No, they aren’t. Its nothing personal against steph curry, who i love to death.
Its just being honest with yourself that he isn’t going to be the best point guard in the league.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions  

You’re greatly, greatly underestimating how good Chris Paul is. First, Paul racks up almost double the assists Curry does right now. He also scores more at a higher efficiency. He also turns it over less. He rebounds a bit more. He’s a better defender. He creates more turnovers on defense. He fouls less. Chris Paul is basically better at everything, which isn’t a knock on Curry, because Chris Paul is amazing.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 7:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It's pretty sad how little recognition Chris Paul gets

by the media and fans, considering that he is the best PG in the NBA, and it’s not really that close.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I have said for a long time that Paul is one of the best PG's possibly of all time..

However, that was not the point I was making. The point was with regards to the responses that state with great confidence that Curry will never reach that level.

Considering this is his rookie year, my observation is about where he can easily develop into…..Curry is 21 years old….21!!!!!!!!!!! He has plenty of time to grow into the player in the next couple of years that Paul is and possibly more…

So being honest with myself, I have said before… Curry will be an All-Star in 2 years time… and potential HOF PG wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy into the future… some may not agree….. so be it.. but from day one, I have seen a capability in this kid that I personally have not seen in a PG since Paul turned up…

"LOVE WARRIORS - HATE COHAN" - Sell The Team!

by BritWarriorGSW on Mar 9, 2010 4:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Ok, that is your opinion. I doubt you have other people who think Curry has HOF potential, but its nice to see the optimism.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 6:31 AM PST up reply actions  

The point was with regards to the responses that state with great confidence that Curry will never reach that level.

Actually, this is a pretty spot on way to sum up how I feel. The odds of a player becoming as good as Chris Paul are remotely slim, even one that starts out as successful as Curry has been. 1%? 2%? 5%? I don’t know exactly what the chances are, but I do think I can reject the null of Curry equaling Paul with a great degree of confidence….like a 95%+ significance level…..which I would call great confidence! :)

by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 7:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Fair enough...

I’ll sit in the 5% of ‘Missing Barry’s’ opinion then…

"LOVE WARRIORS - HATE COHAN" - Sell The Team!

by BritWarriorGSW on Mar 9, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Also AR will never be a three

Turiaf is not a viable NBA starter and Cousins is a center

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

We have [no more than mediocre] talent we just need to make [quite] a few [major] changes!

by jae on Mar 7, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Any suggestions?

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.

RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."

(MT)

by kenntoe on Mar 7, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

why are you saying “get rid of” in relation to Ellis? He is a good young player on a very reasonable, non-escalating contract. There is nothing toxic about him or his contract.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 8, 2010 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

For some reason

GSW fans are making an epic battle between Curry and Ellis. Ellis has had a down year this season. What he is a great combo guard who is an highly efficient scorer and a above average rebounder and defender. This season however he has been on a quest to just put up as many points as he possibly can, and his stats have suffered for it.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 8, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Have you seen him and curry play together?

It does not work out and I understand this is a down year for Ellis, but his shooting percentage is terrible. He thinks he is Melo with the amount of shots he takes, but he is not. And do not tell me he is the only source of offense is why he continues to shoot and attempt to be a point gaurd, because he turns the ball over seemingly 1/4 possessions that he has the ball and many people around him (including Curry) are better shooters.

If Ellis can learn his role as a pure scorer that slashes through the lane, then it will work out, but currently he is hurting the young teams growth. It seems as if he wants to always have the ball in his hands, and Curry makes the better decisions with the ball, so why not keep Curry instead of Ellis?

by reppin510 on Mar 9, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

When you say learn his role

You need to look at past years, if anything he’s tried to adjust to a new one he is not fit for. You sound like this is the first time you have ever seen him play. He knew his role when the coach didn’t use him as a point guard, he doesn’t think he’s a PG and you can tell cause of his style of play. And him and Curry together have been great this year and our line bright spot, yet people forge this after he misses a few games I guess

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 6:09 PM PST up reply actions  

3-Very sadly. “Ellis” must be traded. We have a guy who will be a great player—just not on this team(Very Sad). Maybe we can wrap him and Beans and get something that can team up with Curry

Monta is a great 1 on 1 player (thus, a good scorer) – but he’s not a great player. Overall, he’s a liability defensively & if you’re going to keep Curry (who is also a defensive liability), you better have a defensive beast anchoring the middle like Dwight Howard or Mutombo in his hey day to compensate. Suffice to say, acquiring one is unlikely.

Trading Andris is pure foolishness. It’s amazing how overrated & underrated a player can be at the same time. Realistically, nobody is going to give up a top 4 pick or a better big man up for Andris following this injury riddled season’s production.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 10:50 AM PST reply actions  

Mont hasn't been a liability on defense this year

Multiple times he has played very good defense on guys like Roy, Ariza, Iggy, Joe Johnson, and even Kobe. And Monta’s offense is not 1 on 1. It’s amazing how short peoples memories are, do you remember when he was used right as an off the ball player he was one of the best off the ball players in the NBA?

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Are you serious? Monta fan-boy in the house.

A couple of decent defensive performances (Maggette has played better defense vs Joe Johnson (& Monta’s so-called good d on JJ was gambling for 2 steals), has had good defensive outings against a # of players and is better in rotations, but no one thinks he’s good). A guy missing easy or open shots is not necessarily good defense. Could be tired from a back to back or from partying, whatever.

Look the team is worse on defense when Monta is on the floor & it’s not close (112.7 points per 100 possessions vs 110 overall). I’m not a big fan of defensive rating, but even that is bad (111 this season vs 110 career). Also his career defensive rebounding % (9.3) is worse than Curry’s (11.6).

When he was off the ball, he was no more efficient offensively than guys like Leandro Barbosa & Ben Gordon and he wasn’t as efficient as Kevin Martin. Please stop your fanboism.

By the way, Ariza sucks at offense.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Lol

Your telling me guys miss shots cause there out partying all the time and fatigue? If anything were the ones suffering from the most fatigue from a team standpoint. 112.7 vs 110 is actually not a huge difference, thats just one 2 point shot. Curry has played 3/4 a season as a pro so that rebounding number is irrelevant until we see him for at least 2 more seasons. And any guards rebounding numbers here are inflated since we play so small they just run down rebounds rather than actually being good rebounder, put either Monta or Curry on a good rebounding team and NEITHER are good rebounders. And are you seriously making the argument he’s not a good off ball player? Kmart is basically another Maggette, he’s just not as big but shoots better from the perimeter. When he was off the ball he was 53% from the field and had a great TS .580. Brabosa and Gordon are not nearly as dangerous as Monta as one is just a catch and shoot guy and the other benefits from playing with Nash

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

No. I’m saying a guy missing shots isn’t always b/c of good defense. Iggy was 4-20 & Monta played 29 minutes. He was just missing shots. Iggy missed 5 lay ups in that game while Monta was in (one via a Mikki Moore block). He also missed a 5 & 8 footer that he’ll likely make one of in most cases (see how Iggy was 9-14 in the next game).

A few good games doesn’t change the fact that he can’t guard most guys 1 on 1, can’t get through screens, rebounds poorly for his position & avoids rotating to big players. Based on #‘s Curry played good d vs Reke, KevMart, Baron, Jennings, CP3 – and even if he did, that doesn’t mean he’s a good defender overall.

-2.7 is a pretty huge differential if you understand stats. It’s the difference between New Orleans & Sacramento/Detroit.

So you’re also saying Monta’s poor rebounding #’s for a guard are inflated? Uh-oh.

Just b/c Monta’s flashier doesn’t mean that the stats don’t say they are more effective at what they do than what Monta does.

You guys got to stop overrating your teams players.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not overrating him

He’s a great second guy, as a 1st not so much. And the guys you named for Steph all aren’t playing great except for CP3, and Reke and Reke still played well against him, Jennings and Baron can’t shoot very well and I’m wondering when he guarded KevMart since we usually put Monta, Maggs or Morrow on guys like him. He has his limitations on D but is not as bad as you make him out to be. As for the 1 on 1 like I said he has limitations but there has been lots of times this year when people tried to post him up and he played them tough. And yes his rebounding is inflated, so is Steph’s so was Jack’s , and Baron’s and most guys that play here or used to play here. Flashiness has nothing to do with him being better or worse than BG, barbosa etc. Those guys simply aren’t as good as Monta especially Barbosa.

You still haven’t told me why you think Monta isn’t a very good off ball player.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Curry guarded Martin in the 1st half during the 1st game Monta was out. Reke put up his #’s in that half vs Cartier Martin. the point is still a few good games from Corey, Curry, CJ, Monta or whoever does not mean they are good defenders.

If Monta’s rebounding % is inflated, he’s going to be as bad an overall rebounder as Luke Ridnour.(5.2% career v Monta 6.1% career). Ridnour is at 8.4% career as a defensive rebounder.

You still haven’t told me why you think Monta isn’t a very good off ball player.
Not that it matters, but I think he is. Just like Gordon & Barbosa are good off the ball offensive players. They’re shooters more than slashers, but the end results are similar. Problem is these guys are liabilities defensively.

W/o an anchor like Howard, you want guys who need as little help as possible, who are versatile (can guard multiple defenders, therefore they don’t get exposed on switches and in pick & roll defense). You don’t want guys that you have to try & hide (compounded by the fact that they aren’t good in rotations (at least Dunleavy & Nash picked up off the ball charges via rotation)) – but it’s better to have to hide only 1 than have 2 or more.

If they are ever going to be a 50 win team, they are going to have to shore up all these mismatches that the opponents have on them on a nightly basis.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

(Even assuming they get a star player in the draft) “If they are ever going to be a 50 win team…..”

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Anchors like Dwight are so very rare

I think our biggest weakness is center, our back court has been our lone bright spot this year. Beans is never going to be a great center and although he rebounds well he needs a beast of a 4 to be really effective. Unless AR progression starts going at light speed Beans won’t be living to his full potential. But we say in 08 that you can win with small guards IF you have a good supporting cast that can pick up the slack. The thing is that team was a team of vets and this is a young team and generally young players are not good defenders. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our young guys in a year or two become good defenders. Basically we can’t keep breaking a team up regardless of one guy or a mismatch. Every team has a weakness but we have to work through it and stick to one plan

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Our backcourt has been bad this year, if you consider the minutes Monta has played in it.
Curry, Morrow, and Watson have been very good. Monta has been disgraceful. I truly mean disgraceful.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

A little strong with your praise of Watson and Morrow.

Morrow’s numbers are worse this year than last year. The only slight increase in pts and reb are due to playing 10 more minutes. And his D has been awful.

Same with Watson. Other than his FG% going up slightly, his numbers were better last year than this year.

by FitzPRSpin on Mar 7, 2010 7:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it’s nice to see Morrow become more than a spot up shooter. I’m glad he can drive, and penetrate now. He’s gotten better on defense.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Morrow become more than a spot up shooter. I’m glad he can drive, and penetrate now.

  Haha, Montay could do that when he was still in his crib.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 7, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

which Monta still can barely do.

  Haha, Montay’s 3’s are a lot closer to Morrow’s than Morrow’s spin moves are to Montay’s. Of course we’re not comparing apples to apples here, one was 2nd rounder and one was un-drafted.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 8, 2010 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta should probably stop shooting threes

Anthony Morrow should probably keep trying to drive.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 6:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Anthony Morrow should probably keep trying to drive.?

  But if he tries the Montay spin move he’ll probably wind his legs up like rubber man?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 8, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Our back court has been our only bright spot

Also you can’t blame Monta for extended minutes. Next thing we’ll be blaming him for is calling the inbounds plays to huh?

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Does it really matter who the blame is on?

Monta has played too much, and that is bad for the team. Apparently, Monta used to/will make a stink when he’s taken out. I think Matt Steinmetz or someone reported that.
Our only bright spot has been Stephen Curry.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 6:45 PM PST up reply actions  

It really does matter who the blame is on.

If the blame is on Monta then that might be a sign that he isn’t a good player, or that he won’t work on this team.
If the blame is on Nellie then that might mean that Monta would do better in a different system.
There are also other possibilities, but it does matter who is the problem. It changes how we will handle the players on the team and the coaching staff.

by freerandolph on Mar 9, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

How so?

He’s being used wrong, simple as that. Whenever you put a pure scorer who aims to score at a high volume as the initiator you will have issues. Whats he supposed to do? Tell Nellie I don’t want to play point?

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Because he still makes poor decisions and tries to do too much/shoot too much. What makes you think he won’t force things if he isn’t playing PG? My own opinion is honestly I have no idea how Monta will play in a different role, but I could plausibly see him excelling or continuing to be a similar player as he is right now – either could happen (or some variation in between), and I wouldn’t count on either as a given….

by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions  

It's hard to shoot to much when you don't have the ball as much as he does

He tries to do to much cause Nellie sets no limit for his vets. “There the boss” as Nellie says. And we’ve seen him as an off the ball guy excel, he should only be used on the ball every now and than cause he is so hard to guard 1 on 1 but this should only be on occasion

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats never a good thing with a scorer

Cause they will try to do what there best at…. SCORE, a player like Monta is fantastic if if used well. If not people will start saying he sucks and is a ball hog. He’s actually improved his vision and passing but it’s not his nature to do that. Nellie needs to use him right and if he did this conversation wouldn’t ever exist

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 11:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it can be a good thing

you just need a smart player to do that, like LeBron.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

And how often is that?

Those players rarely ever come a long

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 10, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, there are others

LeBron just seemed like the obvious example.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I understand

Kobe, Wade… Who else can you really let just roam free?

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 10, 2010 6:14 PM PST up reply actions  

I was kinda referring to

that he doesn’t like to be taken out, or didn’t earlier so it’s easier for Nellie to leave him in.
And also that he still makes poor decisions on court. Nellie doesn’t coach him very much.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

+1.....I agree Monta has been good on D at times this year..he was giving it his all..

It don’t look good for the Monta/Curry back court right now, but it can’t be called a complete bust just yet…It really depends on Monta, can he play second fiddle to Curry?

The draft is going to play a big part in this teams future, if we draft @3 and get a big like Cousins we can afford tro keep experimenting with Monta/Curry….knowing also that we will have an entire team healthy…

by Cryptic on Mar 7, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

I think he can play second fiddle, I don’t know where people are getting his ego will get in the way. The guy doesn’t have an ego at all, he’s one of the more quiet guys in the NBA. The Monta/ Curry back court looks bad when you play a quarter of the season with out a center, basically the whole year with out a power forward, and without your starting small forward (Buike).

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions  

It don’t look good for the Monta/Curry back court right now, but it can’t be called a complete bust just yet…It really depends on Monta, can he play second fiddle to Curry?

Of course he can. Problem is that’s a defensive liability with 2 guards who aren’t helping much on the glass, have trouble holding up until help comes if they have to rotate to 4’s & 5’s in the paint, regularly need help defending the post against bigger guards, regularly get caught by picks, are questionable perimeter defenders.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 12:19 PM PST up reply actions  

The backcourt is a bust because the only reason you play that ‘small’ backcourt is for a huge offensive gain. Monta’s disgraceful play on offense is negating whatever ‘bonus’ you get by playing small. Curry-Morrow offensive backcourt has huge offensive gains, and while the defense is bad, the rebounding is good. If we really want a great offensive backcourt, look no further than a Curry-Morrow tandem.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

You may think Monta on offense has been disappointing in your mind

And thats fine, but disgraceful is a bit of a stretch

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

When i mean disgraceful, i mean so incredibly inefficient and selfish? I mean one of the least effective offensive players in this league getting more than 7 shots a game. Also the turnovers, and his demanding of the ball on every offensive possession. It has been disgraceful.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Demands ball? Or called iso?

We may never know, if I got a penny for every time I said this I’d be rich. Give the ball to an off ball scorer meant for scoring and use him as a point there will be issues. It’s not like he tells the team what play to call and puts out the lineups every night and says he’s the point. That’s the coaches duty

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Said it above, but in case you missed it, Morrow has been worse this year than last year. And 3.9 reb in 31 minutes is not good rebounding.

Plus, as bad as you may think Monta’s D is, Morrow is atrocious on D. Just being taller does not magically give the ability to guard bigger players better.

If you are expecting winning to come from a starting back court of Curry and Morrow, you will be sorely disappointed.

by FitzPRSpin on Mar 7, 2010 7:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Morrow is actually an above average position rebounder

so is Stephen Curry.
Morrow’s been worse in some ways (passing, taking care of the ball), but better in others. His TS% has improved a little. He is also getting a lot more steals.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Rebounding

Speaking of which, Curry is averaging 4.7 boards per game since the start of December. I can only think of about four point guards that are doing that. Evans is averaging 4.8 since the start of December, but is he really a point guard? Others that come to mind are Kidd, Paul and Westbrook.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 8, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Curry and Paul are basically rebounding at the same rate this year (Paul gets .1 more per 36 minutes), but Paul is a bit below his career average.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

(We also play at the fastest pace in the NBA)

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions  

(And they play one of the slowest paces in the NBA)

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, I didn’t feel like looking them up, I just knew us off memory.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Curry is rebounding better than Paul this year

  Probably because more balls make it out to Curr-bury while the Hornets bigs go up and cut them off before CP#3 can get them?
 Also Stef is a pup so he might like to chase sticks more than the old dog?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 8, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Why do we have to blow up a team that was just put together?

And that haven’t even had a chance to play with each other yet, that makes zero sense. Monta is fine IF USED RIGHT. Everyone talks about how bad he’s been this year but he’s had to try to adjust to being a completely different player than what he used to be and it won’t happen magically like we all want it to. He’s been used as an initiator when his nature is to be a scorer. If we trusted Steph with the full load of handling the ball this year and not just wait until the last 20 or so games of the year this conversation wouldn’t even exist. Also I’m very willing to trade Beans for a SF if we draft Whiteside or Cousins.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:04 AM PST reply actions  

Please stop talking about trading Monta while he is injured.

When was the last time we beat a +.500 team without him? Never.

Until Curry can lead this team to victories against the likes of the celtics, suns, or trailblazers, just sit back and watch.

by stereotada on Mar 7, 2010 12:02 PM PST reply actions  

yes, let’s ignore the fact that they are 14-38 with him and the reasons why they are 14-38.

it amazes me how little W’s fans understand what is good defense (i’ve only been a fan for 4 yrs (Warriors are my 2nd team thanks to my roommate of 4 yrs who is a Warriors fan).

this team loses for 3 reasons. #1 is obviously lack of a superstar, #2 they lack good defenders & they have serious compatibility issues (when people talk chemistry, they are really talking about how players complement each other. b/c KG, Pierce & Allen’s games complemented each others, they had no problems from the start meshing together. when they don’t, like Maggette, all you hear about is how they just need to adjust even 1.5 years laters )

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Biggest reason for losing

Coaching, young players aren’t usually good defenders and thats the coaches job to teach them. Which he doesn’t seem to care about

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

What coach turns young players into good individual defenders? They’re usually good from the get go (recent examples Rajon Rondo, Jrue Holiday, Luc Mbah a Moute, etc). Has there ever been a coach who turned a bad defender into a good one?

Ray Allen for instance is just as not good as he always was, he’s just surrounded by 3 great ones in Rondo, KG, Perkins and a very versatile defender in Pierce.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

A coach has a pretty big effect on a young player though

Not saying he can magically make someone great on defense but definitely can improve guys. Look at Brooks in OKC, he got young guys to commit to defense and have become much better. He drastically help Jeff Green on defense as just a quick example.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I think our main defensive issues have to do with Nellie’s ineptly bad coaching in team defense and rebounding. He also puts out lineups that have no chance of winning. Why did he go small last night? We were doing well, then he puts George at center and all the sudden Charlotte goes off on a big run?

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

young players are generally not good team defenders. they don’t understand NBA defensive principles or concepts, have trouble playing zones in the NBA b/c of the 3 second rule and since rotations aren’t commonplace in the college game, they are mechanical & think too much while doing them.

generally, young players who are good individual defenders are good from the get go.

Brooks is basically getting credit for Sefolosha & Ibaka joining that team and helping their defense. Westbrook paired with Sefolosha equals great perimeter defense. Krstic as a big body has helped defending C’s more so than Wilcox at C & whoever else was playing there.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

You also know Collison has been a terrific defender this year?
The defense is 7 points better per 100 possessions when he is in the game.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

i did not. after i read your post, i was all “wait, what? Darren Collison is a good defender?”

i now realize you were talking about Nick – admittedly after seeing checking Darren’s #’s and seeing he was bad.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions  

this team loses for 3 reasons.

  Well yeah, To start with the Team is too lightweight to play in the nba,=not enough size to control the boards. and secondly they’ve been hurt and are playing subs from the D-league.
  But you can’t blame all of that on Montay, when he was playin with Boom he was pretty efficient and we won 48 games so on a stronger team Montay should be a solid player.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 7, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

To start with the Team is too lightweight to play in the nba,=not enough size to control the boards

Still not as important as having a star player. Even one of Baron’s ‘06-’08 caliber could carry an offensively efficient team to 40+ wins. The Suns were never great at this either, but they were winning 50+ year in & year out.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Suns did have Shawn Marion. Size matters but if you are a great rebounder like him at 6’7, its not as big of an issue.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

huh? Shawn Marion is still on the Suns? The Suns are on pace to win 50 games again this year.

Anyway, even with Marion, the Suns overall were a bad rebounding team. Always bottom half of the league & it’s not hard to be better than a Nash PG, Q-Rich SG, Joe Johnson SF, Marion PF, Amare C level rebounding team. Warriors clear 69.1% on the defensive glass this season vs Suns at 68.3% in 04-05.

Amazingly, those guys were a 17th ranked defensive efficiency team at 107 points per 100 possessions. The Warriors are 27th at 110 points per 100.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought you were talking about the years they were winning 60+ games.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah i figured, that’s why after my bad joke, i put that “anyway” part about the Suns still being a bad rebounding team that won 50+ games year in & year out.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions  

No but

being physically outmatched at (usually) all 5 positions is something that will need to be addressed if we want to win consistently.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.

RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."

(MT)

by kenntoe on Mar 7, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: explain to my wife

I first read your numbered “points” and seriously thought that a kid had written this, Then I read the first paragraph saw that you are an adult.

No offense, I am only 14 myself.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 12:12 PM PST reply actions  

"Points" 4 & 5

Hey mister.

In reference to this:

4-This team must completely be blown up AGAIN. Thanks to the idiots in the front Office

5-Bring in a true GM and coach

You said this:

We will continue to give bad contracts to players who at best are good players on great teams.

Did you know that they already fired the GM (Mullin) who signed these “bad contracts”? You’re talking about Biedrins, Ellis and Maggette right?

So, what bad contracts the has “idiot” GM Mr. Riley signed? How do you know that he’s dumb? Is it because he threw that pile of money (veteran’s minimum) at Mikki Moore? Is it because he drafted Curry at #7? Because he offered a “bloated” $5.2m (total) 3-year deal to C.J Watson?

He did bring in Kobe Karl though and that dude was hella pink. How many pink players can we call a star? ZERO! So that was dumb.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 12:42 PM PST reply actions  

Riley is not that great though

He over values all our guys and is too conservative. Also he doesn’t seem to know if he wants to make a splash trade or build on a young team. He’s very indecisive

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Multiple examples

He started off conservative when dumping JC, than hesitated on the Amare trade which could have happened but then hesitated (although it was a good move), than says he wants to sign beef and after Gooden said he wants to come here he signs Mikki Moore, George for Marco was strange with no real purpose, seemingly shops AR for a while than retracts that, during the Jack fiasco we were reportedly offered Dalembert but we said no only to get Bell and Vlad (WTH) , says Monta is untouchable than all of a sudden is in the middle of trade talks, and any good GM would have fired Nellie by now.

He flip flops a lot

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Gooden said he wants to come here

Did he say that? Did not know that. I’d rather have Gooden than Moore. Even if Gooden got $4.5m and Moore got $1.3m.

Marco for George has been debated to death. He wasn’t going to play in front of Ellis, Curry, Jackson, Morrow and CJ. Who knew that Jackson would flip out? I’d rather have Reggie Williams anyways.


seemingly shops AR for a while than retracts that

Jack fiasco we were reportedly offered Dalembert

There is no proof of any of this. That’s just noise.

get Bell and Vlad (WTH)

They got out from under his contract at the cost of having to take one year of Vlad.
Monta is untouchable than all of a sudden is in the middle of trade talks

So should he have said “We’re trading Monta”. That’s a great way to kill his value. You were just complaining about how little value he got for Jackson. That’s what you get when you have to unload somebody.

The Crawford trade was a salary dump. He makes too much for what he does. Maggette is a much much better as a sixth man who scores.

any good GM would have fired Nellie by now.

They owe him like $6m for next year. Hire a new coach so he can fail with a D-League roster? Cause more turmoil for the young players that are healthy? Curry’s improving, Morrow’s improving, Hunter is at least a good 3rd center (and beefy) and Tolliver is getting better. If you’re going to fire Nelson, do it in the offseason.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually Sammy was offered and we said no and we did shop AR. The Bell trade is nice if Sammy wasn’t offered but he reportedly was. The Monta part isn’t about value or who is on the block as much as it’s him not knowing what he wants to do. And the JC trade was killed after we cut Speedy , thus making it pointless and a trade of Tolliver for JC. Not fair value. And Nelly should have been fired at the beginning of the year after alienating Jack, Monta and AR.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Sammy also has a pretty bad contract

and the JC trade was pure salary dump. He wasn’t a very good player, and it helped us get out of 2 horrible contracts.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 7, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah i agree. I haye JC’s game. It makes me cringe to watch his no defense, chuck up random shots, miss easy layups type of game. Also he is paid 10 million a year……. Good trade. Jackson trade was a good trade. Now Maggette and Ellis are the only bad contracts left to purge.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

If Monta is a bad contract

So is Beans, he’s not worth his money right now

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I have more confidence in Biedrins returning to form than Monta, personally….

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think Monta is not in form as much as he is stuck between initiator and scorer

He needs a clear defined role, while I still like Andris I think he has some major issues that stretch back to last season. I love his rebounding but it’s his lack of aggressiveness on both ends that is bothering me

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

About the contracts

it’s tough to compare the contract of a center (who make lots of money) to an undersized shooting guard. Andris has a pretty typical contract for an above average center.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta Ellis will return to from when Monta Ellis can and decides to be Monta Ellis playing the role Monta Ellis and not Monta Ellis playing the role of Michael Jordan.

I blame Nellie, the front office, and Monta Ellis for his de-evolution this year but i think he cn return to his old form.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 7, 2010 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I just see Biedrins returning to form as very probable, whereas Monta returning to form is going to take the right attitude out of Monta (accepting a lesser role where he plays off the ball a lot more). I don’t know Monta, I don’t know if he can or can’t accept that, and I’m not sure what the chances of it happening are, I’m just more comfortable with the chances Biedrins returns to form than Monta is put into the right role by the coaches and is accepting of it.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Wouldn’t Biedrins need a change of attitude too (mental toughness)?

by belilaugh on Mar 16, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nah, I don’t see it as that big of a deal.

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 6:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

based on what, exactly?

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 8, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

My reply to warriorsscore110 goes into it more. Biedrins I see as mostly having sample error and injury issues, and with his age, I expect him to return to close to where he was before since we had 2 seasons in a row of pretty decent sample size quality production. Skills don’t just disappear in 23 year olds. With Monta it’s more mental and playing within a role he fits well into, which takes both a coach that recognizes it and Monta’s acceptance of that role.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

which takes both a coach that recognizes it and Monta’s acceptance of that role.

Agreed, both of these things must happen. But also this team needs more talent. Monta is playing around a talented rookie, several role players, and D Leaguers this season. There is a vacuum of shots when you just dont have any other high volume scorers around him.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 8, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

To me the biggest issue with Monta is surrounding him with other good players. If he feels confident in his teammates, I think he can settle into a role. It all comes back to acquiring a top-tier talent (or at least a couple more guys that are on Monta’s level).

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 11, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

we did shop AR.

For who? Bosh? Again, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just you shouldn’t judge a GM’s performance based on parts of rumored deals that may have involved other players or not even have been offered.

Agents start a lot of these rumors too.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

We reportedly shopped him and Maggs together

And the Cvas wanted them and we get JJ and Z. Didn’t go very far thoguh

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

though

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

So the Cavs wanted AR and the Warriors said no? I’m kind of glad, aren’t you?

The main point is that we shouldn’t judge RIley on rumors, only what we know he’d actually done. We really don’t know these deals were actually seriously discussed or if there were more players involved. Some of this stuff comes from front office sources, but some comes from agents or “journalists” and bloggers repeating speculation from some other “journalist” or blogger.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I would of traded AR and Maggette for Hickson and Z,

Check out Hickson’s stats this year. He is a steadier player than AR with out AR’s ‘upside’ and we get to dump Maggette’s contract. Thats a no brainer trade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3437

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 7, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions  

(Basketball-reference is a much better place for stats)

I’m not seeing the upside. He’s not nearly the athlete Randolph is. He isn’t nearly the rebounder Randolph is. I also wonder how much of his offensive success is due to that Lebron James guy, I heard he’s an ok player. I’d much rather have Randolph than either Big Z or Hickson.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 7:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I think Hickson is a good player, maybe not as good as Randolph. I could care less about Big Z. The key in the deal is getting out of Maggette’s contract.
Will Randolph be better than Hickson? Maybe, we don’t know what AR will become in his career.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 8, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d like to get out of Maggette’s contract, too, but our biggest need is top tier talent, and Randolph is the type of high potential player that gives us a chance at top tier talent. Getting rid of Maggette’s contract is not as important as acquiring talent – basically, in no situation would I part with Randolph simply to ditch Maggette.

Will Randolph be better than Hickson? Maybe, we don’t know what AR will become in his career.

We don’t know what will happen in the future, but Randolph is a much better bet to be a solid player than Hickson given his athleticism and skills he’s already shown (like rebounding and shot blocking), plus Randolph has a bigger chance to develop into a star. I’d much rather take my chances on Randolph.

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

AR

Beyond the rebounding, I have to admit that I am irrationally seduced by the fact that AR can physically do important things that others can not. He’s the only other person not named LaBron that I’ve seen pull a “Lebron” blocked shot on a breakaway multiple times. And on Kobe even.

It’s not just his abstract athleticism, It’s more that he can do very concrete things, just not consistently yet. Score, pass, rebound, block shots, handle. He just needs to think through the game and learn to make team-oriented decisions. In other words, “at this particular moment, what is the best play to score or prevent the other team from scoring”.

Can he do that? I don’t know. He’s what, 20? I think the potential payoff is worth the wait.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 8, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

That's hardly a no brainer

and I’m sure they would have demanded that we waive Z for the rest of the season. We would be sending away the most talent in that deal. We also don’t need another backup quality power forward.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

demanded that we waive Z

That would be against the CBA for them to demand that.
Regardless, I could care less about Big Z. Maggette’s contract is a killer and it would be nice to get rid of him, while only swapping Randolph for Hickson.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 8, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

If you haven’t noticed, that type of thing tends to happen in the NBA – like the Big Z trade with the Wizards….

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

They did that with the Wizards trade

and they tried to get us to do that with the Jackson trade, which is we didn’t do it.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Didn’t he say that the team’s biggest goal & need was picking up a rotation worthy veteran this offseason?

Could just be him not wanting to effectively say “We don’t have any star players”. But if his biggest goal isn’t picking up a star player, one would question his acumen for the game.

He also mentioned needing beef last offseason & ended up picking up Mikki Moore.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s hard to judge a GM on what he didn’t do because we don’t actually know what he could have done. Drew Gooden? Maybe he’d rather play in Dallas.

What star player was available? Besides Amare, who is overrated and would have cost the W’s too much in return. You can’t force other teams to trade with you. The only player you can force to come here is your draft pick (unless his name is Rubio) and he did pretty good with that one.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

What star player was available?

No, I mean this upcoming offseason. When asked about his plans for the coming summer, he said he’d like to pick up a veteran rotation player along with their #1 pick.

If that’s true, that’s not really smart. He should forego all veterans until he finds a superstar. Then he can pick up support players like a veteran rotation player who complements his superstar’s game.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Ok.

What star player was is going to be available?

He has enough supporting players don’t you think? We’re loaded in that department.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but my point is that he should forgo wasting money on a rotation vet player until they have a star player.

If anything they should be trading away vets for lottery picks & hoping they draft a star. Even if they miss, what’s the difference between a 17 win team & a 27 win team? more lottery balls, that’s what. the year in, year out 15 to 25 win team has a better chance at turning it around than the 25 to 35 win team

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but my point is that he should forgo wasting money on a rotation vet player until they have a star player.

Fair point, it also depends if he plans on trading one of our complementary bigs with Ellis if he trades Biedrins.

If anything they should be trading away vets for lottery picks & hoping they draft a star

I don’t disagree. But the only vets I’d trade all have big contracts, which means in order to get a good pick, you’d probably have to take back a worse vet and/or a worse contract.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

great points.

since it’s not my money, i’d definitely trade expirings like Vlad & Buike for whoever Detroit wants to get rid of (Rip/Prince/Ben Gordon/Villanueva) or offer Maggette/Vlad for whoever the Sixers want to get rid of (Dalembert/Brand) or if the Wizards want to get rid of Arenas for Vlad/Maggette/Buike as long as the pick was high enough.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I definitely would not trade Maggette/Vlad for Brand. That would be terrible. We would trade a highly effective bad contract, for an ineffective albatross contract. Why would we do that?

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 4:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would we do that?

They have to take back something to get that 1st round draft pick assuming it’s high enough. I don’t want the players in the parentheses, I want their lottery picks.

It’s essential to get a star player. Then you can figure out who to add to build around him. The Warriors are not getting said player via FA & it’s difficult to pick one up via trade. The most likely opportunities come via the draft.

If you’re not a playoff caliber team, moving effective vets who help your team win 5 or 6 more games is inconsequential. Teams that perennially win 15 games have a better chance at turning it around than a team that perennially wins 30 games.

While it’s hard to pick up stars in the 4 through 9 range that the 3 above teams are likely to be drafting from, it’s not impossible.B/c of the new CBA, guys who wouldn’t have come out as freshman like Evan Turner 2 years ago when he was averaging 8 pts & 4 rebounds a game, might come out in this draft.

All 3 of those aforementioned teams are losing tens of millions of dollars this year & next. They also have huge mistake contracts that they want to get rid of. Taking risks like this would show that management understands that this team needs a star player instead of adding complementary vets like Raja Bell who might help them go from 22 wins to 26 wins, but is definitely not taking them to the 40-50 range.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry, you didn’t make it clear we would be getting an unprotected first round pick this year.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

wasting money on a rotation vet player

I agree, the one savvy move however is to sign Bell to a one year contract. then at the deadline we have both Bell and Azibuike with expiring deals to trade to teams needing a wing. See Memphis giving up a first for Brewer.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 7, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Riley hasn’t been great but he has purged us of two of our terrible contracts.
He has also said incredibly incompetent things about Nelson and Monta’s performance…things that are obviously not true. To then turn down the Mayo and Thabeet deal for Ellis, was terribly done. To waive Speedy’s contract a week before the trade deadline was a joke in itself.
Riley has been an average at best GM, and based off the recent history, i think he will foolishly build around Monta while adding another player who will take away PT from Wright and Randolph. I also get the feeling he will not take advantage of Vlad’s expiring next season, based on how he handled Speedy. Now that we know he is Nelson’s right hand man, should we expect Biedrins to be traded at an all time low value? Yes. Nelson is destroying this team.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: He has also said incredibly incompetent things about Nelson and Monta’s performance…things that are obviously not true.

Examples?

To then turn down the Mayo and Thabeet deal for Ellis, was terribly done.

Meh, Ellis is the best player in that trade. I would probably have done it but it’s not terrible. Especially if they were worried about pissing us off even more. Maybe they’ll do it in the offseason.

To waive Speedy’s contract a week before the trade deadline was a joke in itself.

He said there were no trades out there that would have required that contract. Unless you know of any.

The rest of your comment is just more unfounded speculation on your part.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

and anyone who says Delonte West is better than Monta Ellis has no credibility wouldn;t you say?

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 7:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I am a big Delonte West fan,

but saying West > Ellis, is just foolish.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 7, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Riley has said he wants a bigman.

He said this last offseason too though.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.

RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."

(MT)

by kenntoe on Mar 7, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you hear Riley say we need to continue playing the style we play?
That had to be the worst thing i have heard from an NBA GM in a long time. Play the style that has produced 29 and 17 wins in the last two seasons.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

re: Did you hear Riley say we need to continue playing the style we pla
That had to be the worst thing i have heard from an NBA GM in a long time. Play the style that has produced 29 and 17 wins in the last two seasons.

Or 42 and 48 wins the two years before that? What style of play would have uninjured half the team in both years, stole Monta’s moped and paid Baron Davis what he was asking for?

You, my friend, have a precarious relationship with cause-and-effect.

There are other factors, but “style of play” is one of the few things that keeps this season watchable. The only thing worse than being bad is being bad and boring. When healthy and winning, the style of play is like chocolate-covered heroine.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:10 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I don’t get why you like to watch gimmick ball madness that only works with a special group of players. This gimmick ball wouldn’t work with many rosters.
Imagine if Phil Jackson played Ron Artest at power forward and Odom at Center for the majority of the minutes because Gasol and Bynum couldnt shoot the 3?
Defending Nellie because you like to watch high scoring games over winning is exactly what the Warriors FO wants. If they can pack the arena with people like you, they won’t have to sell, or change their agenda.
Nellie has been a terrible coach the past 3 years, and to not acknowledge that having Baron Davis running the show is the only reason his madness worked, is in effect ignorance.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Well the Lakers technically played the same type of style last season (5th overall in pace) and still won a title.

You’re confusing small-ball with style of play. Style of play is that of the a running team. Yes recent incarnations have usually entailed PF’s playing C like Pau & Amare with guys who are 3-4 tweeners at the 4 (Odom, Diaw & Marion), but you can just as well have a bigger guys like Vlad & CWebb for the Kings in their hey day..

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

We play small ball too. I have no problem with fast paced basketball. I prefer it. But i cannot stand small ball. If you want to argue that we don’t play small ball frequently, watch a game or two and you’ll see what i’m talking about.
Last year Corey Maggette and Stephen Jackson combined for more minutes at the 4 than BW and AR, and the last two were much more healthy than the prior. Wright may have missed 40 games, but Maggette and Jackson combined missed 50+games. So how do 2/3’s play more than effective 4’s? Don Nelson everybody.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

no i mean i think Larry Riley said he wanted to continue to play a running style over a half-court style.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions  

We should be a diverse team

Capable of playing multiple styles.

The game slows down eventually. Half court sets are always apart of the game. I don’t mind the running game, as long as we’re not exploited in other areas.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.

RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."

(MT)

by kenntoe on Mar 7, 2010 6:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, was only pointing out Riley advocates running, not necessarily small ball.

Really they should find a star player & play the style that best fits his game.

by the evil monkey on Mar 7, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Riley advocates

Riley needs to advocate the fact that our roster is horriable and whole sale changes need to be made to improve the talent level of the roster. Thats a 2 year minimum project right there, we can worry about replacing our senile coach and installing a new offensive plan after that.

Thing B

by warriorsscore110 on Mar 7, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t get why you like to watch gimmick ball madness that only works with a special group of players. This gimmick ball wouldn’t work with many rosters.

It worked with an

existing
roster when his first year hear as soon as they dumped Dunleavy and Murphy for Jackson and Harrington. Not a specialized roster.

Imagine if Phil Jackson played Ron Artest at power forward and Odom at Center for the majority of the minutes because Gasol and Bynum couldnt shoot the 3?

Turiaf, Bidrins, Hunter do not shoot the 3. Gasol and Bynum are both much better than any of those three. Gasol is a superstar, he’d start every game.

The rest is more Monta Da Babbling Nonsese. Baseless hyperbole.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

The rest is more Monta Da Babbling Nonsese. Baseless hyperbole.

And you continue to ramble on about Nellie’s greatness and how much fun small ball is for you to watch!

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: And you continue to ramble on about Nellie’s greatness and how much fun small ball is for you to watch!

Where did I mention Nelson’s greatness in this conversation? You brought up small ball. I said I liked the Warriors style of play that is based on match-ups, early offense, scrambling defense and allowing good players to make decisions instead of calling set plays every time down.

Honestly, I really try to avoid engaging you in conversation but you replied directly to my comment. You just throw out a bunch of baseless nonsense and don’t really read through and understand what other people are saying to you.

I would encourage you to look at the list of statements that you type over and over again and see if you can back any of those things up with logic or evidence.

This, of course, does not apply to, of course, your blossoming romance with TS%. I too have feelings for TS%. It’s an informative yet , simple metric. But you shouldn’t smother it with affection, it’s just going to feel trapped and leave you for some other incarnation of your user name.

Either that, or just post less. Your True Posting % poor.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

+1

True posting %, oh my god thats brilliant. If only we kept track of that in some way.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure someone who backs up what they say with facts would have a high true posting percentage, wouldn’t you say BSD and Dubzfan?

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah but you post so often that it may be detrimental to the posting

There are other capable posters that need to post more often. See what I did there? Lol

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, i’m not sure why you are the one criticizing.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 5:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Personal attacks don’t get you anywhere, and you have even stressed that before. Double standards for the lose (FTL)

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

haha FTL? is that like the new FTW?

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 9:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Faster Than Light

Used in both science and science fiction circles, often regarding FTL Travel.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Ha, ok but i don’t think that is what he meant unless
‘double standards faster than light makes sense’?

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 9:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah

FTL = for the lose, it’s actually been around a while just not nearly as famous as FTW

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I knew what it was (and I know you weren't responding to me directly)

I just chose to joke around. I also thought it was For The Loss, not the lose.
FTL as Faster Than Light has actually been around for a long long time, too.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

It seems you like to take personal shots at me for no reason. Just pointing that out. Disapointing we don’t see you for what… a couple of months, then all the sudden you come back with your anti " Montadaboss’ rhetoric, that is trolling, or a better word, immature. You say you are 14? It is like most 14 year olds to cause problems with others for no reason. I’m not causing problems with you. You are the only one causing problems around here with me. Ok?
And to think you have great supporters, welcome to the much needed Dubzfan, who happens to be the only ‘Monta is a superstar’ poster left on this blog who constantly posts. I don’t have a problem with him, but i don’t agree with his rhetoric much, if at all. I don’t go on long tangents like you did, thinking this is a speech and debate class, about how my user name used to be stupid, and how you think of me as a human being. I don’t appreciate you, so why don’t you stop the personal attacks and lay off of the criticism.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: so why don’t you stop the personal attacks and lay off of the criticism

Really? Look at the crap you posted as a reply to me. Most of it’s baseless and some of it’s a bit hostile.

A lot of your comments directed at me today didn’t have any basis in fact or reality. You skipped over half of what I wrote and then responded to some hybrid of what you thought I meant and your unfounded prejudices against Nelson and RIley.

Examples:

I don’t get why you like to watch gimmick ball madness that only works with a special group of players. This gimmick ball wouldn’t work with many rosters.
Defending Nellie because you like to watch high scoring games over winning is exactly what the Warriors FO wants. If they can pack the arena with people like you, they won’t have to sell, or change their agenda.
Nellie has been a terrible coach the past 3 years, and to not acknowledge that having Baron Davis running the show is the only reason his madness worked, is in effect ignorance.

The statement “people like you” is rude and thoughtless. If you want to know why I started messing with you, there’s the start.

The three statements I quoted are just repeating baseless hyperbole. It also had little to do with my comment. Do you remember how many games Mike Montgomery won with Baron Davis? I at least responded to the first one to which you responded:with some rudeness that had nothing to do with what I said.

If you are going to be rude and lazy, I reserve the right to at least amuse myself by poking fun at you.

I do think you should read the post you’re responding to a little bit more carefully and think about what you are basing your conclusions on. I give you a hard time, because it is the same pattern and you post a lot so I have to skim through a lot of your posts when I’m reading the site.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 10:36 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The statement "people like you" is rude and thoughtless.

Wouldn’t you find most of the 17,000 warrior fans who fill up the stadium for this pathetic team to be fans like you, who like to watch basketball at a fast pace, and think Don Nelson is a good coach. I don’t think it was rude. I think it was just honest. Warrior fans come for the entertainment, not the actual on court product, otherwise, we would have terrible attendance figures considering we have been a losing franchise for 14 of the last 15 years.

It also had little to do with my comment. Do you remember how many games Mike Montgomery won with Baron Davis?

Do you recognize Baron Davis didn’t get along with Monty (as he has with most of his other coaches), and he found his own ‘nirvana’ with Nellie for about two years. That was the best span of basketball he has ever played. The way he played was the caliber of a superstar, and thats why we were good. Not because of Nelson. The on/off court numbers for Baron in his two years suggested two things:
A) We were a good team with Baron Davis on the floor
B) We were a drastically worse team without Baron Davis on the floor
Not to surprise you, but since Baron Davis has left, we have been a bad team, with largely the same surrounding talent on this roster. Do you believe Baron Davis or Don Nelson was more responsible for a great two year run? I think you answered it already. In response to how this style of play has largely effected why we have been bad ( all the stats show don nelson has caused this team to be worse than its talent level, this year is no exception, even with all the injuries).
Or 42 and 48 wins the two years before that? What style of play would have uninjured half the team in both years, stole Monta’s moped and paid Baron Davis what he was asking for?

So was i out of line? No. Was i going by the ‘facts’ (which you seem to disregard, as you constantly mock me for my use of TS%). What are you going by? Anger? Thats all i can conclude from your snark, and rude commentary.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Read it through again.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 8, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

I dare you to find a single time when I said Monta is a superstar

Don’t assume things, you just said that cause you support your argument with facts your TP% would be good. Where are the facts?

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh?

Statistics say I said Monta is a superstar?

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, I responded generally

like, he said he uses facts, and you asked where they were. Generally, MDB be uses stats.
I don’t you recall you saying that Monta is a supahstah, but that he is an All-Star.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 8:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes I did say he should have been an all star this year

Especially over Kaman. But now I see what your saying :)

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but it's not like "All Star Replacement" is the same as All Star

like, how much does it matter if you’re the replacement to the replacement of the replacement, yknow?

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, it gets watered down in a year when 3 guards were injured….and he still couldn’t make it.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 9:57 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a chance that if

he was healthy, and that there wasn’t a snowstorm in Dallas, he could’ve made it.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 11:41 PM PST up reply actions  

As the 3rd replacement player……

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 6:32 AM PST up reply actions  

That's not what Riley was saying:

 He is just saying we play an exciting brand of basketball, and we want to build on the fast paced game because that’s what makes the game exciting…

Maybe you like the slow down, grind it out body banging foul calling 80-69 type games they like in the east….can you imagine loseing this many games with that kind of low scoring boring type of play?

Don has the right idea but he don’t have Secretariat or Spectacular Bid in the stable at this time……

by Cryptic on Mar 7, 2010 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

We wouldn’t lose more games if we played better defense in a slightly slower paced system. Defense matters, and we cannot play this no defense type of game anymore.
You can improve your defense while having a fast paced offense, but we most likely will need to slow down the pace a little bit, maybe to 5th or 6th in the league.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

in order to slow it down

and run a more half court game we need to have some post up players. Nellie plays this system right now because we have zero low post players. The minute we have some beef down low who can score we will become a slower team and better defending. Nellie does not play small ball totally out of preference, he does so out of necessity.

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 5:30 PM PST up reply actions  

re: Low Post

There’s not too many teams that play that much low post offense any more. They key with posting up is being able to score down there so they have to double-team and then someone will be wide open.

They run that two-man game with Maggette and Monta in the post but neither one of them are good passers although they can both score from that position. Is that mid-post? I don’t know the term. They go to Morrow a few times a game with that too, but he is a pretty shaky passer too.

The used to post up Baron Davis and Jackson before that Richmond and Hardaway. But, if my memory serves me, Baron did all of his damage by passing out of the double team but when they’d leave him he didn’t score very well from the post.

To your point, what big man do they have that can post up? BWright is probably your best hope if he can develop more passing skills. He’s the only big that anyone would double-team down there. AR’s game is all dribble drive and jump shot.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

He is just saying we play an exciting brand of basketball, and we want to build on the fast paced game because that’s what makes the game exciting…

 Haha, Exciting would be sturdy players playin at a pace that would allow them to stay healthy and on the floor for a whole season. I doubt that Spurs fans have missed smallball these last few years?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 7, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

good timing considering

their fastest player just went down with an injury. Lets see, Portland is right behind us in injuries and they are last in pace of play in the league. Guess that kinds of blows up your theory.

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

One example doesn’t prove or disprove a theory.

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 8:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: One example doesn’t prove or disprove a theory.

No, but that theory doesn’t have any evidence to support it either.

One example doesn’t prove or disprove a theory.

You’re 100% right, unless the theory states some thing like _ is 100% __. So that kind of blows up my theory that you’re 100% right, :(

Before the 1990s, wasn’t the typical pace of play faster than it is now? Were there more injuries then?

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 8:37 PM PST up reply actions  

You are funny. Way to go after people, i must say. Pretty crude commentary you tend to make.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I was joking with MB and also agreeing with him. If I offended him, we’d know. It’s safe to say that he can more than stick up for himself.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Neither does his one opinion make his case

Are you supprting his weak theory? Then think about other high pace teams like Phoenix and Denver. Are they riddled with injury? No. Guess there’s more to support my point of view.

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you supprting his weak theory?

I think I was pretty clear with my statement that I wasn’t supporting either side – without real evidence, it’s a theory and we don’t have any actual support whether it’s true or not.

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

. Guess there’s more to support my point of view.

  Haha, So your point of view is that guys moving faster are damaged less when they hit something than guys that are moving slower?
    My experience has been that the more effort expended on an action the more one is susceptible to injury, and the faster someone is moving the less time and chance they have to correct for judgment errors and avoid mis-steps?
     A good way to test theories is to expand the action to each side of it’s range and magnify the differences. So if I play at walking speed you don’t think I can play longer without injury than someone else playing at top running speed? add a thin layer of sand and a wet court to further expand the experiment and then think again about the effect of pace?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 7, 2010 10:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Gasol is a superstar, he’d start every game.

Your right but do you realize Don would make him play PG? he already said if he had Gasol he could see him play the point because he can dribble the ball fassssssssst !! (hehe)

by Cryptic on Mar 7, 2010 3:01 PM PST reply actions  

For the first time in 15 years I have ZERO desire to watch this team.

Really? After our ‘97-’02 stretch, you still had a desire to watch the team, but this year is the one you finally lose that desire?

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 3:42 PM PST reply actions  

For the first time in 15 years I have ZERO desire to watch this team.

I have to admit I feel the same way….If Curry was not playing I would not even bother…Last year it was AR and this year it’s SC..

I go way back to the man with the Golden Gun, do you remember who he was Missing Berry?

I told you some day your going to change your name didn’t I ;))))

by Cryptic on Mar 7, 2010 4:33 PM PST reply actions  

For the first time in 15 years I have ZERO desire to watch this team.?

    The way to avoid that is to watch some University of Kentucky games then savor our position in the standings as we lose again and again and again . Yumyum

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 7, 2010 5:44 PM PST reply actions  

Kentucky

Speaking of which, I watched them play Florida this morning on CBS.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 7, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I am hoping to see UK and Ohio St. collide in the T this year....hope we can draft from one of those two teams

Never really watched that much college ball untill our last 2 yrs put us in the draft hunt.
Ohio St. is looking pretty strong these days….they have a lights out 3 pt shooter..Deibler and that other guy of interest!

by Only In Fairfax on Mar 9, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Never really watched that much college ball

  Me neither but I need to check their game schedules so I can see what our future will look like.
 I missed the sat morning UK game cause I never think of watching basketball in the morning :>)

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 9, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions  

A quick fix

Why not a three-way trade? Minnesota gives us Hollins and Jefferson, Memphis gives us OJ Mayo. We give Ellis to Memphis and Biedrins & Wright to Minnesota. Minnesota also gets Thabeet from Memphis. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine Memphis will do it because they want Ellis and his scoring and because he is semi-hometown. Minnesota does it because it allows David Kahn to sell Minnesota on hope. He gets tons of assets, Biedrins (whose play matches better with Love, a project center in Thabeet who he can at least sell as a possible star when Rubio gets back from Europe, and Brandon Wright a young forward with lots of potential. The Warriors do it because we get one of the best Post players in the game at a discount because he does not fit with Love and is still recovering from ACL. We get a shooting guard who fits better with Curry who is becoming a star. This trade along with a stud draft pick (and hopefully a new coach).

Lineup (with Draft pick still to come)
PG Curry/ CJ (if we keep him)
SG Mayo/ Morrow
SF Magette/ Azubuike/ Vlad
PF Randolph/ Turiaf/ Hollins
C Al Jefferson/ Turiaf/ Hollins

PS Can we stop with the hard on for Raja Bell, 33 year old perimeter defenders age like milk. If we sign him for more than $2 million we will be sorry.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 7:56 PM PST reply actions  

What love affair? He isn’t a franchise savior, but the guy certainly looked like he could still contribute in the couple games (game?) that he played for us this year. At the very least he can set a good example on defense. While it’s true that 33 year old players usually don’t fare so well, the NBA is also chock full of crusty old veterans that settle into defined roles and curtailed minutes.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 11, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

People seem to really like Bell

and think of him as an important piece to resign, which is very very unlikely.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 11, 2010 3:23 PM PST up reply actions  

and unnecessary.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 12, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions  

School work has been killer!

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 14, 2010 1:03 AM PST up reply actions  

hope your right

but last time I checked 17/6 was hardly dominating.

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 8:07 PM PST reply actions  

I'm really surprised with all these Monta trade ideas.

We haven’t been a great team with him or without him, thanks to injuries.
He could be partly to blame because of the simple fact that not efficient but he can still be an efficient player with the right group surrounding him on the court.
Getting someone like Buike back, who can actually create his own shot, would help his case.
I’m not ready to give up on him yet since I’ve seen what he’s capable of doing in the past.

by Richboievans on Mar 7, 2010 8:15 PM PST reply actions  

+2

What I don’t get is that people are saying these now when he’s not playing, now if he were in right now they may have a better argument and reason for jumping on the Monta is evil bandwagon but it’s strange there doing it now. It’s not like Monta just forgot how to be a great player, he still is but just is asked to do to much. This happened last year with Maggs when during his first injury people went form supporting him to acting like he’s the devil, than he came back and some even said he was earning his contract. When a key player is out everyone starts looking really closely and points fingers. But the truth is he is not the issue, were about to go 0-6 on the road trip without him and I’d bet the farm with him we would have at least won a couple games on the trip

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 8:29 PM PST up reply actions  

We aren’t playing better because of monta. the ‘get a better team around’ theory only works if he is a viable star to build around, and he is one of the few bright spots. That he has not.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I was about to make a post like this responding to Richboi

I don’t think Monta is worth building around. The last time Monta was a nice player was when he was used to build around Baron Davis.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Efficiency experts

There is something to be said for watching the games. Al Jefferson, who you all love to bag on was making an absolutely horrible Twolves team decent before he tore his ACL. Efficiency stats lead to people saying that Corey Magette is really good despite the fact he is a below average shooter and abysmal passer who is a human vacuum. Anyone who argues that Magette is the best player on the Warriors has not been watching.

The Warriors are desperate for size and Al Jefferson is one of the best offensive post players in the NBA and he is 25. Randolph and Turiaf would cover his biggest weakness weak-side defense.

Ellis does not need to be traded, but if you have an opportunity to acquire young studs like Mayo and Jefferson you do it. Let’s face that the Ellis/ Curry pairing is not ideal. It is nothing that we need to be married to. You win trades when you acquire underappreciated stars and young talent with great contracts. Jefferson and Mayo is hardly giving up on Ellis, it is just maximizing his value. Just like how I love Randolph, but if we had to trade him to get an elite player, I would do it because why take a risk when you can have an almost can’t miss success.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 8:31 PM PST reply actions  

To a certain point I agree

I’d much rather have Al than Beans, but the Curry/ Ellis back court cannot be called a bad one, a fail or anything like that until we see them with a full team when being used properly. And I wouldn’t trade AR unless Bosh or someone as good or better than him was involved. At least until we know he isn’t either a star or a bust.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 8:35 PM PST up reply actions  

The whole point of “efficiency” is to measure how much a players scoring helps his team. There are many other aspects of winning basketball besides just scoring – so when you talk about Maggette’s impact on a game, you’re completely missing the point. When Maggette shoots, he helps his team – his problem is he does so many other things poor that he’s not as good as his scoring alone indicates. Now, moving on to Al Jefferson.

Al Jefferson, who you all love to bag on was making an absolutely horrible Twolves team decent before he tore his ACL.

How do you figure? They’re the 29th best team out of 30 this year in pthag W-L. Last year they were 25th out of 30. The year before that, they were 26th out of 30. They’ve been a horrible team with Jefferson – substantially worse than they were when Garnett was there, and Big Al is one of many factors contributing to this.

Al Jefferson is one of the best offensive post players in the NBA

No, no he is not. This is where efficiency is such an important concept. It’s important to factor in how many possessions a player shoots the ball when judging how much his scoring helps his team. If a player took every single shot for a team all game long and scored 50 points a game, that’s a horrible team because of that player. This is where you can see why Jefferson’s not an effective offensive player – he’s not efficient. Every time he shoots, he scores less points per possession than the average player. That’s not a good thing for a team. He scores a lot simply because he shoots a lot, but it’s not winning basketball. It would be one thing if he was a good passer – but, as you criticized Maggette for – Jefferson is ALSO an “abysmal passer who is a human vacuum”. You pass it in to him, he’s basically a lock to shoot. The problem is, unlike Maggette who scores more points per possession than just about any other wing in the NBA…..Jefferson scores less points every time he shoots than most NBA players. That’s the difference.

Then you take into account the fact that Jefferson doesn’t play D, and you’re not left with much of a player. Efficiency is important for what it is – you HAVE to consider efficiency when you’re talking about how a players scoring helps or hurts his team. There are many other factors that determine who wins, but in terms of individual scoring, you’re just completely offbase in trying to devalue efficiency. It IS that important.

Also, not sure why you think Mayo is such a stud?

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Question

Do these TS%’s take into account when you rebound your own miss. Some shots increase your chance of getting your own rebounds. Plus, given your love of TS numbers (54% to <52%), Mayo is more efficient and has shown significant growth as a defender.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

All TS% does is take the number of points scored divided by number of possessions you shoot and convert it into a percentage that’s equal to taking all 2 point FG’s. So if you have 58% TS%, it’s the same as only shooting 2 pointers and making 58% of them – you score 116 points per 100 shots. The possessions are calculated by the number of FGA’s and FTA’s you take (they use .44 possessions per FTA, which is derived from historical league average numbers – if you shoot 100 FT’s, historically, that’s been equal to shooting on 44 possessions because of and 1’s and 3 point fouls and such).

If you get your own rebound – you get credit for an offensive rebound, a different category than efficiency, but something that we definitely look at to see how a guy contributes. I’m not sure if there’s a meaningful difference in the chance your team gets an offensive rebound based on where you shoot – I’ve never seen research on it myself, but if I remember right, I’ve been told by others that the chances your team gets an offensive rebound actually stay pretty constant no matter where the shot was taken from.

As for Mayo, don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a solid enough player, but I just don’t see him improving much (he basically hasn’t shown any improvement from last year to this year, plus I have a few other reasons I’ve discussed in other recent threads for my opinion on him), I’ve never been impressed by his D personally and don’t really see him as a better fit than Monta……I dunno, he’s fine, I would have traded Monta for Mayo + Thabeet, but I just don’t see Mayo ever being much better than he is now.

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I’ve never been impressed by his D personally and don’t really see him as a better fit than Monta

How much have you watched him? It’s been one of the storylines this season that he has shown commitment to defense, and even last year he was considered a decent defensive player.
He has also improved a little from last season, but they were little improvements based mostly on adjusting to the NBA game. I could see him becoming a smarter player, and maybe getting his 3P% up above 40, but nothing drastic.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Al Jefferson first became a primary post player for the Celtics in ‘06-’07. Since then, his teams (the ‘06-’07 Celts, the ‘07-’10 Wolves) have gone 78-187 in games in which he’s played. That’s a .294 winning percentage. You know how many NBA teams have been that bad in that time frame? Zero. Not the Knicks, not the Nets, not Al’s own Timberwolves. Since 2006, no actual NBA team has been as bad as Al Jefferson’s teams.

There is no big-scoring NBA player who screams “winner” less than Al Jefferson. I’d almost rather trade for Arenas.

Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis

by onlxn on Mar 7, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I would agree with you on Al + to add... the wolves went into total free fall after his injury...

To me your best point is that yes we do need a big like Al or better if posssible….but hate to trade away our future components for a “quick fix”….this particular draft could be be a better solution for us…..unless we luck into Turner or Wall which changes everything….then yes we could plot the trade for the right big(but teams do not give those up easily)……bigs are a risk to draft but if/when you get a star big you have a future…..its a gamble but Cousins looks like as much of a game changer as the other two…IF he is then he would have more value for us…

by Only In Fairfax on Mar 9, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

To me your best point is that yes we do need a big like Al or better if posssible

Definitely the “better” in this case. Jefferson isn’t very good. If you can’t turn your touch down low and post moves into efficient scoring, it isn’t helping the team win games, and given Jefferson doesn’t do much besides score points…..well, yeah, he doesn’t do much to help his team win.

by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, that wasn’t what he said. He was saying we do not need a big man like Jefferson. He was saying Jefferson is really bad.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions  

PS

Numbers say that Wilt was the best player ever. However, he was not even the best player of his era. Basketball is not baseball, numbers help, but are not exact. Hollinger would be much more accurate if they were.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 8:34 PM PST reply actions  

Again I partially agree

Wilt was the best of his time, he was so dominant but I agree he wasn’t the best ever. That goes to MJ. Stats tell about 30% of the story

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Re: Stats tell about 30% of the story

So that 30% is only 30% correct?

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

nevermind

I hate when I make a wise-ass comment but I word it so poorly that there’s only a 30% chance it get’s understood. There goes my True Posting % .

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Your TP% is going down

I’m going to trade you to Bright side of the sun or Rufus on fire

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Good luck. I have a bad attitude, I’m lazy and I’m a terrible influence on young posters. You’ll be lucky to get one of MDB’s original screen names back in return.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 8:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Really? Man value today has changed

Internet space is our goal in the trade than, maybe in the offseason we can get a new poster. Maybe a star

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, you are a terrible influence with your snark commentary, and rude insults for no reason.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

Isn’t that what I just said? Again, your comment added no value. You really should look into posting less often.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 10:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes when people insult themselves, it is used for comic relief, so i couldn’t tell if you were just being a jerk, or poking fun at something. I was just reiterating (whatever your intent was) that you are a snark, and a terrible influence.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 10:33 PM PST up reply actions  

To quote a one of the worst human beings I've ever met, in terms of dealing with people:
Again, your comment added no value. You really should look into posting less often.

I give pressure the reach-around.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 7, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Again, your comment added no value. You really should look into posting less often.

Look in the mirror, Chief!

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 10:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you reading everything in here?

Either you aren’t reading or you are having a heck of a time wrapping your head around BSD’s sense of humor.

"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."

by olympicmike on Mar 7, 2010 10:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I think i don’t get his sense of humor, although i got the last one. He said he was a terrible person while quoting himself…still not funny when he makes fun of me constantly.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

All he's doing is joking around

Having a sense of humor over the internet is hard but is necessary

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

grow up

MDB, learn how to take it if you dish it out.

"That’s Chavey; he’s a good athlete. He can play anywhere … except second base. He’s not that good." -M. Ellis

by eshock on Mar 8, 2010 9:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, will do.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions  

i couldn’t tell if you were just being a jerk, or poking fun at something.

With BSD, the answer is poking fun at something… 100% of the time.

"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."

by olympicmike on Mar 7, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I understood what you were going for if that makes you feel better….

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah I thought that was pretty good

by belilaugh on Mar 16, 2010 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

They probably tell more than 30%

I’d guess 60%. Someone on here told me 90%, but I don’t buy it.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Don’t listen to the 90% number. That’s just the R^2 on a model of team wins vs. team statistics, and at the team level, we know exactly what wins games. I could build you a model that explains 100% of who wins, but all it would be is who wins a game based on how many points one team scores and how many points the other team scores. I’m pretty confident if I said the team that had more points at the end of the game won 100% of the time I’d be correct. ;)

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 12:59 PM PST up reply actions  

true

If Holliner drinks his own koolaid he must hate Curry who’s per is not very good.

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 8:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Numbers say that Wilt was the best player ever.

Do they, though? I honestly have no idea, but it seems to me you’re basing this off a pretty shallow glance at the numbers and based on some of the things being said here I have my doubts that you’re looking at the right numbers…

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

PER

8th alias and on probation
I promise to be kinder and gentler

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

PER isn’t a worthwhile stat….Hollinger in general doesn’t seem to do much worthwhile statistics work.

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Ummm..

If you think that Wilt was the best player of his era that might be the problem. The best player of his era was Bill Russell. And the fact he almost filled both hands with championship rings goes to prove that. As Herm Edwards would say, “you play to win the game.”

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 8:43 PM PST reply actions  

true

However, if teams are fairly similar talentwise and one player wins championships and the other doesn’t, I’ll take the player who wins championships. This is why it is a slam dunk between KG and Duncan. Some people try to argue that KG could have been Duncan, but they are on something or stupid. If everyone at the time says I would rather have _________ on my team a bunch of outstanding numbers should not change which player gives you the best chance to win championships.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions  

if teams are fairly similar talentwise and one player wins championships and the other doesn’t, I’ll take the player who wins championships.

That’s fine, but I’m having a really, really hard time seeing how the assumption “if teams are fairly similar talentwise” holds in any of the specific cases you’re talking about…

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Russel was consistently surrounded with better talent

during their respective primes.
You don’t think KG could have won a more rings if he played on a team with David Robinson, Manu Ginobili, and/or Tony Parker at various times? KG in Minnesota never had a very good team mate, which Duncan always has had. I’d still probably take Tim Duncan, but surrounding talent is really important for winning championships. Would you also take Pau Gasol over Charles Barkley?

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 8, 2010 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Curry

Another example, numbers may not say how good Curry is, but watching him you see something Ellis is missing. If you want to win a game, on the Warriors you want Curry to take that shot. He has made at least 10 of those shots this year, unfortunately Ellis is not who you want taking it.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 8:47 PM PST reply actions  

Well, Curry is scoring at a much higher efficiency than Monta while racking up more assists and turning it over less……so yeah, maybe if you take a look the numbers will actually back up what you’re saying…?

He has made at least 10 of those shots this year, unfortunately Ellis is not who you want taking it.

I like how your point is to be critical of statistics, and one of the things you use is….a statistic. The most basic fundamental use of stats is simply to record the events that actually happen…..

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes – like I said, the most basic use of statistics is to record what happened. If someone makes a shot, we record it, and it becomes a statistic….

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:29 PM PST up reply actions  

First of all

There are differences between shots. Some players can put up tons of points in a blowout, but there is no statistic for a player who wins games with that ability to step up. You want a player that can make a shot when it is needed. The guy who can change momentum and calling that a made shot is rather undervaluing it.
Secondly, could Al Jefferson’s worse numbers have something to do with the fact that he has played with horrible point guards? It does not take into account teammates and their positive effects. Curry would be by far the best point guard Jefferson has played with since he became a star.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Channing Frye

To use your numbers, Frye had a TS of 46% for Portland and now has a TS% of almost 60%. Could that be Nash’s influence. Numbers tell you everything you need to know, except what you need to know. “There are lies, damned lies, and statistics”

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics"

A little while ago I came across a great graphic that addresses this quote, but I cannot find it anymore. It’s very sad. If you use statistics right – that is, use them in a consistent, unbiased manner, which people who understand statistics should be trying to do, this kind of thinking is anti-intellectual BS. The real problem are people trying to push an agenda or preconceived conclusion with statistics. It’s not a legitimate argument against the usefulness of statistics, just an observation that most people either don’t know how or don’t care to use them right.

(The graphic I unsuccessfully searched for just makes a joke that the only people that use that quote are people who don’t understand statistics)

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s mainly Frye didn’t take any 3’s at all, and now he is a great 3 point shooter. I don’t know if Nash suddenly taught him how to shoot 3 pointers, but it’s possible he is getting more open looks from Nash.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 9:51 PM PST up reply actions  

You want a player that can make a shot when it is needed. The guy who can change momentum and calling that a made shot is rather undervaluing it.

Is there some special ability to do this, though? Who do we know has it, and how do we know they actually do? My guess is more times than not what a guy does over the course of a game, or a season, or a career is going to tell you how you should expect him to perform “when it is needed”. For a long time people argued the same thing in baseball (I tend to use baseball arguments since my baseball stat knowledge is much better than my basketball stat knowledge), and it turned out they were basically entirely wrong – there basically is no special ability to “step up when it’s needed” and there aren’t really guys that just perform in blowouts – in the end, guys end up playing just as you would expect them to based on their individual ability.

Secondly, could Al Jefferson’s worse numbers have something to do with the fact that he has played with horrible point guards? It does not take into account teammates and their positive effects. Curry would be by far the best point guard Jefferson has played with since he became a star.

Sure. The problem is in most cases guys who have been in the league as long as Jefferson tend to continue what they’ve been doing for their career rather than suddenly changing into another sort of player, even in a different environment. Inefficient scorers like Al tend to stay inefficient. I’m not going to say for sure that he couldn’t be efficient in another environment, just that I would bet heavily against it. Also, I see you just posted an example – Steve Nash does have a huge TS% effect on his teammates, he’s an amazing offensive PG. There are only a handful of players in the league that seem to have a significant effect like that on their teammates, though.

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:45 PM PST up reply actions  

On Ellis

I don’t want to say that I am hating on Ellis. I think we are a better team with Ellis than without, but this is about opportunity cost. If you decide to stick with Ellis when you could have something better then you screwed up. I am certainly not proposing we pull a Crawford or Jackson on Ellis where we trade him for expirings and worse.

by pericles31081 on Mar 7, 2010 9:00 PM PST reply actions  

Any trade that makes you better you do it

No one is off the market, if trading Ellis makes us better than so be it, if trading Steph is so be it or Beans or AR etc. But it has to be smart down the road as well

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

The problem with Monta is he is immature

and hardly a leader. His attitude on the court towards Curry sucks. There have been many moments this year they made fantastic plays together yet Monta never interacts with Curry. There;s definitly no love or chemistry there.‘Heck it looks like Curry and Mags have developed comradare, but Monta treats Curry like the plague. Monta just doesn’t get it and unfortunatley never will. He should be embracing Curry but he never will. As much as I love Monta its time to show him the door.

8th alias and on probation
I promise to be kinder and gentler

by StinkyFingers on Mar 7, 2010 9:33 PM PST reply actions  

I really don’t see why people want to read so much into a situation they really know nothing about. Do we know what Monta’s attitude towards Curry is like? Absolutely not – it’s not like we’re even getting crazy TK rumors of some sort of problem, this is all just speculation based on subjective takes outsiders (fans) are forming with no real substance, based on the what, 10% of the time the players are together?

by Missing Barry on Mar 7, 2010 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Where are you getting this from

You sound like you know them. Monta congratulates Curry on the floor and acknowledges him as well. Leaders don’t happen over time, I’m not saying he will be but most leaders go through harsh times to become who they are. And how do you know he hasn’t or ever will show him love? Cause I’m very willing to pay to see a real crystal ball.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions  

IMHO Monta just doesn’t look happy with Curry on the floor, but then again, Ray Allen didn’t look happy on the floor until he won a championship in ‘08. It may just be Monta’s personality isn’t very welcoming and encouraging when he is on the floor. I’m starting to look back to the ‘glory’ years and it seemed like Monta always had this type of personality, but maybe the tatoos, and the friendship with Jax, are just subjective thoughts.
I’ve come to the conclusion Monta’s ability to work with Curry is more of a problem because of Monta’s ball hogging, and shot selection more than a personal issue between the two.

banned like chris andersen

by MDB on Mar 7, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

He's not really a people person

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Oops finger slipped

He’s not really a people person in the way that he is more quiet and all business. The ball hogging can easily be fixed by using him as an off ball player and some better coaching with a more clear role on the team.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 7, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions  

then he shouldn;t be team Capt.

8th alias and on probation
I promise to be kinder and gentler

by StinkyFingers on Mar 8, 2010 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Leading by example is just as important as talking to people

It’s not uncommon to see him talking to the young guys during timeouts or huddles. He’s just never been the type of guy to be jumping around after a play. He’s just more down to earth than others

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 8, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d rather have a guy who gets everybody together, and is the consumate professional.
If we still have him next year, Corey Maggette for Captain.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 8, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Not all leaders are like that

He even said being a leader is leading by example. If you want the happy go lucky guy just look at Ronny. And just cause he’s not dancing and jumping up and down does not make him unprofessional, in fact you could argue it makes him more professional since he isn’t being cocky or rubbing it in peoples faces

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 12:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Ronny does things alot different than Monta. Ronny’s energy is unbelievable, and its helps the team when hes on the court it seems, but Monta never does that.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions  

And thats fine

Not all people are like Ronny. Who are we to say how he should act? It’s not like he’s throwing a temper tantrum

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Im saying Ronny or Corey should be captain over Monta.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions  

First of all, fail.

Second of all, doesn’t your name stand for “Montas Da Boss”!?!?!

by freerandolph on Mar 9, 2010 7:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Why would it be a fail for two more mature, players to be the captain?
And yes, it did, but i don’t want to have that grammatically challenged, conceptually flawed name still.
MDB sounds better. Montadaboss doesn’t make sense with Monta’s play recently.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Where are you getting more mature?

Monta by all reports from close writer like Thompson and Spears say he is mature and is doing fine. Also Maggs is the type of guy players like as a person but he could not lead by example because he relies heavily on others taking away attention from him, when people really key in on him he struggles. When he isn’t the teams number 1 priority he plays well. Simple as that, and choosing a leader has more than just 1 criteria and who are we to judge why someone should or shouldn’t be a leader? We don’t know these guys so we have no idea. Also montadaboss still makes sense cause he lets the vets be the boss on the floor :)

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 8:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I would imagine that at least Maggette is more mature than Monta

My high school physics teacher met Ronny Turiaf at Gonzaga, and he is supposedly the nicest, coolest guy that you could ever meet.

“More mature” sounds like it might be somewhat insulting to the person you’re comparing him to, but Maggette is a very together, professional guy. He doesn’t make disparaging remarks about his teammates before he ever plays with them. It’s pretty immature to do stuff like that.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 9:05 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree Ronny should be a captain

And Maggs seems very together but the Monta comments really have no meaning anymore. Lots of things have changed since than, that was during Jack’s poisoning of the team and now he has much respect for him and is much more mature now. It’s not like it’s impossible to change.

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Well

I don’t know that Monta suddenly became super mature in the last few months. You don’t go from being somewhat immature to being mature enough to be a leader that quickly. I don’t doubt that he’s more mature now, I just don’t know if he’s a leader type.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 11:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Becoming a leader doesn't happen over one season

And he may never be a great leader, but he’s definitely more mature than some people think. Is he a leader type? That remains to be seen, before we make judgement like that I’d like to see our full team together and everyone used correctly before we come to a conclusion on this. The fact is people are impatient and if they don’t get what they want now they will whine. I guarantee if Ellison bought this team and his first year here would be a bad one people would question him. Thats just how it goes

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 9, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions  

But he's more mature than you think

Actually we have no idea since we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. But the players like him not only here but around the NBA and close beat writers say he’s matured. So while you can say he’s not mature, I’ll trust the people that actually are close to the team

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 10, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, matured and mature are WAY different things. You can be more mature than someone else and still be not all that mature. Monta Ellis at the beginning of the season made some incredible immature comments. I don’t doubt that he is more mature now, but I still don’t think he’s especially mature.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions  

From all accounts he is mature or has matured a lot

It shows up when people inside the team talk about him. And we can probably trust them more than a fellow blogger or someone who causes speculation just for the heck of it like TK

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 10, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay

would you mind finding me at least one of the accounts that say he is a mature leader? Not matured, straight up mature.

And we can probably trust them more than a fellow blogger

Which is why I am wary of just accepting that he is more mature. This is the first time I’m hearing of this, and it’s from a fellow blog poster.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 8:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Part of being mature is having respect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1535yh-Huo – Listen to Spears, this sin’t just about Monta but there is a Monta section in the video. It regards respect and respect for Steph. Something people accuse him of not having thus making him immature in there minds. And I said he may never be a leader so I don’t know where your trying to imply me of saying he is a mature leader. PS : The Monta part starts around the 5:40 part

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 10, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Well you're arguing for him being the captain (leader)

and you’re arguing that he is mature. You never said “mature leader” but you did imply that you think Monta is mature and could be a leader.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions  

True

He can be a captain but I said he may or may not become a leader. Two different things. Ronny is a great captain but not a leader for example

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 10, 2010 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he would be a pretty good vocal leader

he’s such a high energy positive guy, kinda like a KG type leader, without the talent.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 11, 2010 12:36 AM PST up reply actions  

He could but he's more of a locker room guy

Also KG is insane and seems like he’s always mad. Ronny gets crazy but not that crazy…

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 11, 2010 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

KG is insane

Understatement of the year.

by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 9:22 AM PST up reply actions  

So what? He’s one of the top players of the past 20 years, and i would love to have him on my team.
Craziest guy in the league though, but crazy in a good way.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 12, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Read my comment again and think it through

I never said I didn’t want KG

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 12, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Pretty sure i responded to Missing Barry’s comment.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 14, 2010 1:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I never said I didn’t want KG, either!

by Missing Barry on Mar 14, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow, the interview was painful to listen to (awful interviewer talking to a really slow speaker), but pretty interesting.

Apparently Monta does have a good amount of respect for Curry, much to the chagrin of many a poster here.

by FitzPRSpin on Mar 11, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m confused how choosing two of the most experienced, and mature players on this roster as captains is a disrespect to Monta?
And i’m not completely convinced by Monta’s maturity. I see him becoming more of a vocal leader, but he isn’t a calming influence to others, and he doesn’t point out things to others too much.

Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!

by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions  

"fail"

 Why not actually try to discuss and reason with him instead of dismissing his viewpoint?

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

During 06/07 and 07/08, you didn’t see Monta celebrating and getting excited nearly as much as the other players on the team during the games, and that is when they were winning. He has never been the “jump up and down and scream” type player when something good happens on the court. Not all players are, and don’t need to be. He got really down on himself during games when he played bad and it was noticeable. He might just hate losing (which is fine).

In contrast, after games and during interviews, there have been many times that he has praised the play of the younger guys, specifically Curry. Curry (and Morrow and CJ) have also made it a point to talk about Monta being good for the team and missing him when he was out. There has to be some kind of good chemistry between these guys.

by FitzPRSpin on Mar 8, 2010 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

At the deadline you guys were offered OJ Mayo and Thabeet for Monta, who here would have taken it?

by CavsLebronFan on Mar 8, 2010 6:55 AM PST reply actions  

Isn’t there a poll on the front page where something like 75-80% said they would have taken it?

by Missing Barry on Mar 8, 2010 7:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Count me in as a proud 20%-er, then. Hasheem Thabeet is garbage. OJ Mayo is not as good as Monta. Riley gets an A+ for passing it up.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 11, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Eh, I’m not a big fan of Thabeet, and don’t think he’ll ever develop into anything but a liability on offense…..but objectively looking at him, it’s hard not to see a good bet to be a good defensive/rebounding player with the potential to be an absolute force on defense….

by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

He’s downy soft, my friend. My number one memory of him is watching Dejuan Blair (while giving up 8 inches in height!) go for 20/20 in a college game last year and dominating to the point that Thabeet had to be taken out. You can’t be a defensive force being as timid as he is. It isn’t something coachable, it’s a question of attitude.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 11, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I watched that game, too, but Blair is good, and sometimes guys just get pushed around. I’ve seen Mutumbo look like that against Shaq more times than I want to remember – sometimes matchups just aren’t favorable. They used to say Pau was soft, too. Plus, other than Howard, there really aren’t any C’s in the league you have to worry about getting banged around like that by…..

by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions  

Pau is soft. If he were the Lakers center they wouldn’t be nearly as good as they are. I actually totally disagree with you. I think there are tons of bangers in the league that feast on soft interior defense (just look at our current situation). Off the top of my head…
Boozer
Milsap
Bass
Bynum
Oden (maybe)
Nene
Jefferson (despite his other failings)
Maxiell

If you acquire a guy knowing that he is an offensive liability, why would you be willing to accept that he will “sometimes get pushed around” on defense?

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 11, 2010 10:36 AM PST up reply actions  

Eh, Pau did fine against Howard in the Finals last year – obviously it was a team effort, but when Pau took him 1 on 1, he held his own. His defense has been quality since he joined the Lakers, both on the ball and off. As for the bangers, the only ones that do their damage in any large quantity are PF’s, so you pair Thabeet with a guy to guard them. And like I said, Mutubo could get pushed around, but he was still a force on defense.

by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

Now if they offered there 1st rounder that’d be different

We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…

by dubzfan on Mar 11, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

“Pair Thabeet with a guy to guard them”

So you just hope that you land that magical 4 who can bang AND isn’t an offensive liability? How many guys like that are there? Otherwise you are looking at a soft-shouldered Center with no offensive game, and a generic banger Power Forward (who probably has a limited offensive game as well). Doesn’t sound like a winning formula.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 11, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Mutombo! Mutombo! Not that Thabeet will turn into Mutombo, but he has that kind of length and athleticism, it’s not hard to see how he can make an impact defensively. Even when a guy pushes him around, he’s just so much bigger than them it’ll still be tough for them to get a good shot off. Plus, it’s gotta be a good sign that he’s rebounded well in his limited minutes so far. If he was really so soft, would you expect that kind of production?

by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

An offensively worse version of Camby, maybe?

by Missing Barry on Mar 12, 2010 8:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Camby isn’t soft at all. He’s skinny, but dude is definetely not getting pushed around.

Mutumbo is an extremely unique player who really shouldn’t be used in too many comparisons. He’s like Larry Bird in that way.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 12, 2010 8:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Mutumbo is an extremely unique player who really shouldn’t be used in too many comparisons. He’s like Larry Bird in that way.

Or Steve Nash! Yeah, it is a fair point. I think it’s hard to get a good perception of if a guy is really “soft”, though. Thabeet was 267 pounds with only 6.7% body fat at the combine, so he does have the weight behind him even if he’s not the strongest guy out there. He’s rebounded well in a small sample….I see reasons to think, even if he is soft right now (something I’m not willing to buy completely without seeing more), that’ll he’ll improve in that regard.

by Missing Barry on Mar 12, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I was keeping the Nash v. Curry comparison in my back pocket in case you disagreed with me…( :

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 12, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions  

-1

this is, as Nellie said, a “no brainer” trade.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 11, 2010 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah yes, nothing like a blanket statement with no justification interjected into the middle of a debate that you aren’t a part of

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Mar 12, 2010 8:21 AM PST up reply actions  

I find +1 comments to be irksome

if you notice, dubzfan was also not involved in the conversation.

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 12, 2010 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

even with thabeet now demoted to d-league

i still would take that trade with him and mayo for monta. why? because i just want some change. i need change. we need change. the warriors are stuck in a huge rut and have no idea how to even begin to start getting out of it. at least the deal for monta would have shaken things up and shown that the franchise is capable of and more importantly willing to making moves. i feel like the warriors are trying so hard to hold on to all these young, “promising” players that they lose sight of potential deals that can make them better. at this point i could care less if nellie becomes the most winninest coach because its not about him anymore and it should never have been. what type of franchise keeps itself in mediocrity limbo just to appease a coach who is going to either quit or be fired as soon as he reaches his milestone? it doesnt make sense. the warriors need to stop acting like theyre planning for the future and start actually doing things right now. curry is obviously who they need to build around and they need to go from there. trade monta, trade beidrins, trade wright if he doesnt bulk up, trade trade trade. the nba and all the other franchises already know we think the world of all those young players and more so use some common business sense and sell the hell out of our “promising, future star” players and get guys that are ready to play and WIN right now. oh and the whole front office? trash. the team could use new management. and new uniforms. those alternate orange ones make us look like the damn tennessee volunteers. that is all.

by nhlogan on Mar 8, 2010 10:02 PM PST reply actions  

Nice rant...guess you havent noticed that we have not seen our full team play together since 3 seaons ago.

After which we blew it up just like you are demanding……a “rut” suggest a bad consistancy….we have not had enough consistancy to find the “rut” your are screaming about….so its seems that if we blow the team up again to appease the fan ranters then that would be a …..rut I guess. Just who are we really going to end up with in this trade,trade,trade thing….yes a different team but will it be better…doubt it…..organizations, politicions etc. use the big changes approach often to appease stock holders and fans that positive things are happening as a smoke screen to mask the fact that the real change needs to happen at the very top plus it is effective as a way to delay their own mistakes since it takes a while for everyone to see if it works…..often the best solution is patience along with step by step positive building block moves. Since we are in this position with a young rebuilding team your suggestion is not the right move……if we had a team like Bostons or the Lakers or Cleveland a few years back—needing to trade/build around their “drafted” allstars then ya trade away……….top players are willing to move to the team that just needs a couple of pieces added to their stars to take it all….we are not there obviously and will never be if we just get on the short fix mediocracy trade mill….not saying that we should not be always looking to see if the “right” opportunity is ripe for the picking and that Memphis trade opportunity “could” have been a good step…depends on how Monta does develope for us….if he gets emotionly fed up over all the “trade Monta” talk and does a Jackson on us then yes we will look back and say we were crazy not to do the deal in hindsite…….but if our “masterplan” becomes trade,trade,trade with our current situation then all hope is lost I feel.

by Only In Fairfax on Mar 9, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

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