Wall for Blake Griffin?
by bleep on Mar 9, 2010 2:11 PM PST
155 comments
I'm still going to follow the warriors the rest of the year, but have seen one too many offensive rebounds given up by them not to have my mind wander once and a while.
Say the Warriors luck into the 1st pick this year. At their current position, 3rd, they have a 18% chance, but 3rd is also the position the Clippers were in last year, and they got the first pick. So the W's luck out, get 1st, and draft John Wall. Do they keep him? On the one hand, he would give the backcourt some much-needed athleticism. But at 6'4 195, is he that much bigger or stronger than Curry or Ellis, both listed as 6'3? The Warriors have apparently settled with Curry as a PG; if they trade Ellis, it will hopefully be for someone bigger than Wall.
Should the Warriors propose to trade Wall to the Clippers for Griffin? With Kaman and an emerging DeAndre Jordan, would they bite on the phenom some have described as better than Rose? Last off season, Riley said he wanted some "beef"; his abject failure at getting anything close was no more apparent than the Warriors performance against the Hornet's front line, where Okafor and West looked like they were playing against midgets.
Wall for Griffin: Would you do this?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Clippers would have to find a way to get rid of BD's hefty contract before even thinking about that trade.
But even still, doubt it happens.
Love Warriors, Hate Cohan! - Sell the team! Save us Mr. Ellison!
YES!!
We have to have us another injured big!
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
But at 6’4 195, is he that much bigger or stronger than Curry or Ellis, both listed as 6’3?
Stronger? Not sure how much, if at all right now….but he’ll probably fill out some and end up stronger than them both. Bigger? Well, we don’t have measurements, but everything points to “yes”. Length matters, and both Monta and Curry are well below average when it comes to length, factoring in their size. Curry has a standing reach of 8’1 and wingspan of 6’3.5, whereas the average for his height at the Combine is 8’2.2 and 6’6.7. Ellis has an 8’2 standing reach and 6’2.75 wingspan, and the average for his height is 6’7.2 wingspan and 8’3 standing reach. Contrast that to someone like Wade, who’s only an inch and a half taller than Monta and an inch and three quarters taller than Curry, but has a 6’10.75 wingspan and 8’6 standing reach…..yeah, if Wall is long as most people think, he’s definitely bigger than Monta or Steph.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 2:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Stronger? Not sure how much, if at all right now….but he’ll probably fill out some and end up stronger than them both.
Have you seen how wide his shoulders are? If he fills out at all he will be one strong dude, and there is no reason to believe that he won’t.
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
by qin on Mar 9, 2010 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
Monta and Curry are both below avg. size wise?
Not as point guards they aren;t. In fact they seem bigger than alot fo apposing point guards. At the 2 they are small but not at the Point. Wall is actually big for a point guard.
8th alias and on probation
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
I think I was pretty clear that I said they’re below average length, and then gave their measurements compared to the combine averages for their height – and they were below the averages?
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Stronger, bigger? Hmmm … Who is the only player on the Warriors’ roster who has missed no games this year? Does toughness and durability count?
Does toughness and durability count?
Sure, they’re just irrelevant to the point I was making that Wall likely is “bigger” in a basketball sense than either Curry or Monta.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 6:54 AM PST up reply actions
The answer to the other question is that Curry is the only player to miss no games for the Warriors this year.
Just throw that in with the “meat market” combine measurements. Hard to measure mental and physical toughness …
I think Wall is an outstanding basketball talent. Wall and Curry in the backcourt would be spectacular and the nidus for a great team.
You get that MB wasn't saying stronger and bigger in reference to durability right?
I think he was saying those things in reference to what kind of player Wall is. Who is capable of guarding when playing defense, if he can over-power people other guards, if he could rebound over other guards, and stuff like that.
by freerandolph on Mar 10, 2010 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
I get that. Strength and durability are directly related however. We focus on muscle mass and wingspan and and sometimes overlook players’ other attributes such as whether they are injury prone … maybe they have strong muscles but not stong ligaments in their joints and backs. I seem to have noticed a lot of “stronger and bigger” players out of commission.
The Warriors should go for Wall because he’s a “player” and the best available. He’s big enough and strong enough. So is Curry. And Curry is tougher than he looks or measures in the combine
The real point is Wall is likely legitimately sized for SG or PG because of his combination of height/length and his projected strength. The point I’m making is more about how he fits in with the players we already have than about how good a basketball player he’ll be. Curry is a terrible matchup against 2’s. Monta is a bit less bad, in my opinion, but still not very optimal.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions
Should the Warriors propose to trade Wall to the Clippers for Griffin?
Well if we did get the first pick and could lock up JWall we might be better off trying to trade Curr-bury for Griffin, we could then profit from DaCurr’s recent performance and his rise up the point guard ranks, thereby switching a 7th pick for a 1 st pick? I don’t have any idea if the Clips would be interested though :>)
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 9, 2010 2:50 PM PST reply actions
Intriguing Idea...
I’m not opposed to shopping all 3 (curry, monta and wall) seeing what we can do. Eitherway it’d be an awesome disposition to have, and one a quality GM should be able to do wonders with
Eitherway it’d be an awesome disposition to have, and one a quality GM should be able to do wonders with
Well there’s your problem.
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
by qin on Mar 9, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
sadly I can't see LAC doing this
They already have two guards they’re happy with. in order to make room for Wall, they’d have to give up Gordon or Baron. In order to make room for Griffin, they have to give up nothing.
so it’s
Baron
Gordon
no-name SF
Griffin
Kaman
or
Wall
Gordon
no-name SF
no-name PF
Kaman
I just don’t see the Clipps thinking that’s a good idea. Besides, Griffin and Wall have similar ceilings/hype, and when that is the case, you should always choose the big man….unless that big man is Greg Oden.
they'd do baron + Griffin 4 Wall + MAgs
question is… Would we?
No we wouldnt....
Not a chance in hell lol…
This is not to far fetched, why would you dismiss this so easily?
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
by qin on Mar 9, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions
Because Baron Davis is not a very good player, has serious attitude issues, and a truly awful contract.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
MB, Baron is a good player still. His shooting is way down, but we all knew that was his weakness. His passing has greatly improved as of late.
Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!
by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
Seems a whole lot like an older version of ‘05-06 Baron to me. No motivation, dominates the ball (and thus racks up assists), but shoots you out out of the game, doesn’t make any effort to play D, doesn’t even rebound anymore…..yeah, that kind of player kills the team. I don’t want to come anywhere near Baron. He’s a franchise killer at this point.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t agree, but you have some points in your favor.
Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!
by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
Nellie came in to replace Monty, and then we shook up our under-performing roster to spark a run.
by WYK on Mar 9, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
Attitude. He showed up in shape, a very rare feat for Davis. He trusted the coach and the system and hadn’t worn out his welcome with Nellie yet. It’s always been about attitude with Baron. It’s simply a matter of whether he cares or not. Usually the answer is “not”. We were lucky enough to get more good Baron than Bad.
Plus he was younger (peak physical age is around 25ish), so every year he’s another season removed from his physical prime (and at this point, he’s probably past his basketball prime, as well).
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying i'd do it.
but if you’re gonna have a toxic contract of baron or maggette. I think i’d rather have Baron. As efficient as Corey has been, Baron brings more to the team, but maybe not…
I guess for me it comes down to this. If you believe Griffin can be that Franchise PF player we desperately need, you do it in a second. I take Baron’s contract with him, even if it is bad because you are getting a 20 year old all star caliber PF. You’re building your team for future. It’s a gamble but well worth it, if he is that guy.
Now you got trading chip of Randolph or Bwright with Monta to add a all-star caliber wing to go with BGriffin, Curry and Biedrins who can just play his game. Barons contract would expire right before you needed to pay Curry and Griffin anyway. and at that point Griffin and Curry will be 23/24 with Morrow, Wright, Biedrins in the 25-27 range.
As long as you realize Baron has 3 years/$41.9M left on his contract after this season compared to only 3 years/$30.8M for Maggette….
I’d probably rather have Maggette straight up than Baron, and then once you factor in contracts, it seems like a pretty huge difference between the two….
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
you didn't acknowledge my point
IF Griffin is really a franchise caliber PF you eat Barons bad contract. DO i know if he is? No….
But I’m saying if you truly believe he can be in same breathe as bosh, duncan, gasol and others you do it. The league has a serious shortage of quality bigs. Bosh is only PF under 30 (I guess Gasol is 29) who is really franchise level. Amare is continually declining (though effective). Boozer/Gasol/West are 29. Duncan, Garnett, Dirk (the true franchise PFs) are in there 30s.
Griffin is 20. If he can follow suit like many think (and thats a BIG IF) he’s worth taking Barons toxic contract w/o thinking twice.
(When I don’t acknowledge your point it’s because there’s nothing left to be said. I see the logic and don’t have anything about it to argue or anything I want elaborated on – I just let it stand alone on it’s own merit)
;)
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
If Griffin
Didn’t miss the whole year, this might be a pretty good idea.
If Griffin
Didn’t miss the whole year, he wouldn’t be available because instead of “potentially damaged goods” he’d be “potential beast!”
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 17, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I would do it.
As long as Griffin’s health checks out. He’s a beast and he is going to own the power forward position for year’s to come. I’ve seen him play quite a bit last year in college, and he was unstoppable. I realize it’s college but his post play, rebounding, and nasty streak is something the Warriors have not had since….can anyone recall? He is a great ball handler as well, and he could cover some of Biedrin’s defensive deficiencies by guarding the bigger stronger players. I will tell you now short of Yao Ming and Shaquille O’Neal no one will back this guy down in the post. He play Center as well. Imagining him and Randolph out there together, just makes me happy.
you have to draft wall
If you have the chance. Warriors gotta make moves with the bigs and if that don’t work they gotta make moves with the smalls. No matter what, best talent. But man I want turner!
Wall will be a 2
Watching his highlights, it seems like Wall will make a great 2 guard. Watching him dunk he gets WAY more elevation than Ellis pre-Moped. He plays above the rim.
I think the W’s with 1- Curry and 2- Wall would be huge and Wall is going to a beast – he’s already really strong and he has another year to grow at his age.
I wouldn’t trade Wall for Griffin because players who come into the league and lose their entire first season to injury tend to be injury plagued their entire career. Greg Oden, Danny Manning, Sam Bowie, ……
Wall definitely has the talent to play PG or SG and excel in either role….
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Everthing I’ve heard says he should play PG really well.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
he seems to be cut from the Dwyane Wade mold of 2-guard who dominates the ball and sets up his teammates well. if I were a coach I’d love to have him starting at the 2, with a great-shooting not ball-hawking PG (like Steph), and have the freedom to take steph out and have Wall the PG. a lot of versatility comes with a guy like John Wall, and Nellie would go crazy with him (in a good way…..i think).
Nellie would go crazy with him (in a good way…..i think).
nellie could probably find some way to screw him up :>) like play him at the 4 or 5 spot?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 13, 2010 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
without a doubt
but it would be fun to watch. I mean, really, would you turn off the TV if you saw John Wall posting up Dwight Howard. I think not.
It’s great marketing, Skep. Give the people what they want. :)
brilliant!!!!!!!!
Lets trade for a guy who is already breaking down (juicing?) Before he’ s played a single game in the league, who’s only skill is dunking the ball. Well he could dunk before his knee cap blew up! Yes the Warrior way!!!!
8th alias and on probation
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Hopefully, Griffin won't end up like..
Antonio McDyess. We all know what happened after he blew out his knee.
by golden_solitude on Mar 9, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Ya McDyess was a complete beats before his knee problems. He was a 26/10 guy and one the best PF in the league. But those fickle knees.
8th alias and on probation
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Griffin’s kneecap injury isn’t the same as McDyess’ tendon rupture. Not a huge red flag.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
really?
How long has he been out? When is he expected back? Sounds pretty serious to me. Not serious is 4-6 weeks. NOT an entire year!
8th alias and on probation
I promise to be kinder and gentler
by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions
It's not the same kind of injury, though
Tendon, ligament stuff is worse than bone stuff, generally.
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, he lost a year, it sucks for the Clippers. The point is whether the injury is a concern going into the future. You start damaging tendons and ligaments, or tear your ACL, or whatever else, and you lose explosiveness, you’re at risk for injury in the future…..Griffin didn’t do that.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
and I ask again
then why is he out a whole year? Not 3 or 4 months. You say its minor? He is missing the entire season. That qualifies as something considerably worse than no big deal.
8th alias and on probation
I promise to be kinder and gentler
by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
Like I said, for this year, it is a big deal, he’s missed the whole season. The point is whether or not it has a long term impact on his career besides simply missing a season. Just because he misses a lot of time recovering from it doesn’t mean there will be any lasting, long term effects.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
He had a stress fracture that they didn't perform surgery on for a few months
he was supposed to only be out for a few months. Also- it takes a while for anyone to recover for surgery.
Seriously- this is a bone injury, not a ligament/tendon injury. It’s a completely different ball game. I’d be more worried about Buike’s explosiveness (which I’m not) than BG’s.
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions
He could do a lot more then dunk man...
There was a reason that as soon as the Clippers won the draft lottery the knew they were going to pick Griffin, and I bet even if they knew he would be injured his whole first season, if we were to redo the draft today he would still go No. 1
The Clippers??
They knew what they were doing? Isn’t that an oxymoron?
8th alias and on probation
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
haha,
You’re making a common mistake. Its not that the Clippers don’t know what they’re doing, its that they have horrible luck. If any other team had drafted him BG would be have a great year right now.
Didn’t realize one injury is “breaking down”. Nor did I realize a guy with a good combination of size/strength/athleticism, who is an absolute animal of a rebounder (the kind of guy that could lead the league in rebounding, or at least the PF position), with passing skills, supposedly started developing a reliable shot, by all accounts is as hard a worker as you can find, can handle the ball well for a big and has good touch around the rim is “breaking down” and “who’s only skill is dunking the ball”….
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
his career averages in the nba are?
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
What were Stephen Curry's averages in the NBA before we drafted him?
0 pts, 0 rebs, 0 asts in 0 minutes? Why on Earth did we draft him?
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
were talking about griffin and whata great player he is
my point is before he is elected into the hall of fame maybe we should see him play at least one game in the league? Is that asking for too much? Look at what has happened to Oden. he was supposed to be next great big man. Now what?
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions
So basically we shouldn’t discuss the idea of trading Blake Griffin for a college player who’s never played a game in the league because Griffin hasn’t played a game in the league….? I don’t see what the problem is.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
your right in that respect
its just not going to happen so I rather focus on getting a big to battle him. Like Favors or Cousins or?
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 9, 2010 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
It appears that neither of them are as good as BG was coming out of college
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
Cousins is a beast
He is also a Freak of a Freshman. Go look at BG’s stats as a freshman and compare to Cousins. I rest my case.
8th alias and on probation
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by StinkyFingers on Mar 10, 2010 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
What they do as freshman is only one point in the evaluation of a prospect. Cousins has maturity/work ethic concerns from what I’ve read, so that knocks him down, plus how does being on the team they’re on affect their production? Blake Griffin took a huge step forward in his sophmore production, is it a given that Cousins will do the same? Physically how do they compare? Looking at one aspect is a pretty simplistic approach.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
Cousins stats and play per min are awesome not a one deminsion account.
But the tourneys and workouts will tell much more and nothing is in the bag with a big especially one that young but if he still looks good after all that he could be our best shot if we are around the 3/4 pick. Most of those concerns seem to be from hs. I have not seen anything concrete(only general comments)related to work ethic/attitude since he joined UK. If you have a link I would read it. Thx
by Only In Fairfax on Mar 10, 2010 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
he could be our best shot if we are around the 3/4 pick.
Yeah , definitely. If Wall and Turner are gone Cousins would be the man. If I had the 1st and the 2nd pick I might even draft Wall and Cousins !
I could live with an athletic 7 footer with an "attitude problem " directed toward the other team :>)
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
It does seem like he’s done everything he possibly could as well as possible so far this year. We’ll see how the rest of the pre-draft stuff plays out.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
the biggest cousins concerns are
what will happen when he can’t just bully his way in the pros. All those maturity/mentality/body language issues come into play when you go against dwight howard, tim duncan, heck… chris kaman and don’t have your way the same way you do vs. 6-7, 220lb “center” from florida state.
The major difference is Blake Griffin has legitimate athletism. I won’t say Amare (cause amare at his prime was a freak athlete @ PF) but comparable to pre-injury mcdyess/karl malone type atheltism (I don’t wanna use bosh/garnett cause he lacks there length which is defining). Point being he’d a top teir athlete @ PF in NBA right now
Cousins reminds me of Jamaal Magloire in terms of athleticism.
That can’t be good.
by Spider Jerusalem on Mar 11, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
If the injury is nothing serious or detrimental to his future health, i wouldn’t mind acquiring a guy of his talent.
Nellie needs to go! but while we suffer....John Wall or Evan Turner please!
by MDB on Mar 9, 2010 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
you sound like his agent
Before you annoint him the second coming, how about having him play…. say a game or 20.
8th alias and on probation
I promise to be kinder and gentler
Id Take David West for Wall in a heartbeat if I was Larry Riley.But if we got the #1 pick we should trade it for the second pick and a Backup Big.
That's one of the worst trades I've ever heard of
I’m barely exaggerating
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 9, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
In the NBA, generally speaking, if you’re giving up the most talented player in a trade, more times than not you’ll be on the losing end of the trade.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think the Clips do this deal, honestly.
They’re pretty high on Griffin, even with him missing the season.
by Spider Jerusalem on Mar 9, 2010 8:26 PM PST reply actions
Yeah
I don’t see how they substantially gain here.
I don’t think they do it just to stir things up.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Anyway....the bottom line here is.....
…….that our biggest need(other than superstars at every position of course)…..is to get some power under the basket rather than more finese.
The biggest need is just a really good player.
Whatever position he plays, you work around it.
by Spider Jerusalem on Mar 9, 2010 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
weak vs. strong draft
Griffin, before he broke down, was the obvious #1 pick in a weak draft. John Wall on the other hand is the best player in a very strong draft. If we don’t want Wall we will find many trade partners and we can get more than Blake Griffin. We could probably unload Maggette’s contract or get other assets to trade down in the draft for Favors or Cousins if we want a big. Why draft a player who already had a serious injury, plays in a manner that he is guaranteed to get hurt again, when we would have the opportunity to obtain an amazing prospect. It would be the Trailblazers with Oden all over again.
Well, first, we don’t know that this draft is strong yet. The college season isn’t even over. They haven’t been measured in the combine. Scouts/coaches/GM’s haven’t been able to see them go head to head. Let’s hold off on calling it a strong draft. My impression is John Wall is a better prospect than Griffin – but Griffin was a legitimate top prospect. Just because the rest of the top of his draft had question marks didn’t mean he’s any worse as a prospect. He would have likely gone #1 the year before, too.
plays in a manner that he is guaranteed to get hurt again, when we would have the opportunity to obtain an amazing prospect. It would be the Trailblazers with Oden all over again.
How is he guaranteed to get hurt again? Since when is Blake Griffin the same person as Greg Oden?
get other assets to trade down in the draft for Favors or Cousins if we want a big.
As of right now, they are not nearly the prospects that Blake Griffin is.
by Missing Barry on Mar 9, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
When the rumors that Wall might try and declare in 2009...
surfaced around the media, the talking heads still had Wall behind Griffin.
But that was well before we had a glance to see how good Wall would be in college.
I think I’d still take Griffin over Wall if they both declared and were healthy. Big > Small.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
I imagine that Wall would be the second pick in a draft that featured Blake Griffin.
Generally bigger players get the nod.
by Spider Jerusalem on Mar 10, 2010 12:25 AM PST up reply actions
Disagree
I think it would depend on what the team needed. If it was a tie, then maybe they’d take the bigger player. Again, I think that depends on the team. As for us, I think we’d take Blake Griffin. As for someone like the Wizards who already have Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee down low, maybe they’d take John Wall.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 10, 2010 6:43 AM PST up reply actions
I don't agree necessarily with the strategy, but history has pretty much borne it out.
Oden over Durant, Bowie over Jordan, Thabeet over a lot of people, Araujo ever, Bargnani @ #1, Bogut #1 over Paul/Williams.
Rose over Beasley is an example of small over big, but Beasley is a perimeter big, so it’s a bit different.
by Spider Jerusalem on Mar 11, 2010 12:23 AM PST up reply actions
I think you coulda drafted Lopez over Rose
and no one would make a huge stink
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 11, 2010 12:37 AM PST up reply actions
I do prefer a big over a small, but Wall might end up being a superior prospect, in which case the question is….is going big worth whatever the difference is between Wall and Griffin?
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 6:55 AM PST up reply actions
If you have a number one pick you probably pick the best player available
Most teams bad enough to get the number one big wouldn’t make any preference between big and small unless you can’t tell which you think is going to be better, then you might look to team need. Unless a team gets really lucky in the lottery, or has an injured superstar, then the team with the number one pick usually could use an upgrade at every position.
by freerandolph on Mar 10, 2010 7:36 AM PST up reply actions
Well, the point is a big man has a bigger impact on winning, so even if they’re a little worse than a little guy, they can still have as much or more impact on winning games. For instance, I consider Chris Paul a better basketball player than Dwight Howard, but they’re both top talents, and I’d rather have Howard simply because as a big man, I believe he has a bigger impact on winning games than Paul can as a PG.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
Didn’t Griffin crack his kneecap just coming down from a dunk? Non-contact injuries always scare me because they point to something structurally wrong. Now, he may have been able to rehab and whatnot to get the problem fixed, but it does merit concern. I am glad that my job isn’t riding on having to make this decision because it is a very tough one with arguments both ways.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Definitely, you’d want the doctors to check him out and give you their opinion, and of course an injury is always a concern, but that doesn’t make it a guarantee he’ll get hurt again. From what the doctors said, it doesn’t seem like it should have any long term impact on his health/ability, so it seems like it’s not a huge deal.
As for how it happened, it seems it happened on a dunk but it “was the same knee Griffin hurt several days before in training camp”, so he might have just been aggrevating it or something on the dunk, when the real injury occurred earlier. I dunno.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 8:13 AM PST up reply actions
It was a stress fracture
which means he didn’t just suddenly ruin his knee. It was a prior injury that wasn’t treated.
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
It was a prior injury that wasn’t treated.
tricycle accident?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
irrelevant
Duncan was top player in a weak draft. Lebron was top player in a strong draft. Both are hall of famers.
not saying Griffin and wall will be these guys, but using comparative value of guys they are going against in draft is irrelevant. Griffin could easily be #1 pick in THIS draft too. Bigs with his level of upside>guards with his level of upside.
I would do this trade.
Yes for sure!
by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Mar 9, 2010 11:13 PM PST reply actions
I'd be torn
On one hand, Wall would be an excellent addition (and a great replacement for CJ if he bolts).
On the other hand, an excellent power forward?
Definitely worth considering.
Why is everyone saying Wall is the Best player in the draft? Most experts agree Evan Turner is the best player in the draft but say Wall has the best upside.Turner is hands down the National Player of the Year.
There's been a John Wall drumbeat for a couple of years now ...
He’s got this pre-existing hype suggesting he might be the next true superstar to enter the league.
That sort of hype can be hard to overcome, see, for example, Marvin Williams goes over both Chris Paul and Deron Williams in 2005 … to a team which really needed a PG more than a forward anyway.
The Hawks were dumb.
They had comparable players in both Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and Josh Childress. They should’ve traded down.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
Or just taken Chris Paul or Deron Williams….
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, the Hawks were dumb ...
But the conventional wisdom was that you take Marvin ahead of Paul or Deron. Marvin was seen as one of those guys, those special talents who could become the best player in the league in a few years. Lots of people would have ripped them in the “how can you pass up that kind of talent” way if they had grabbed him.
John Wall has a similar sort of halo, and I’m not sure its justified in his case, either.
I’m developing a real preference for guys who have done it, rather than guys who are mostly potential. Obviously, Wall isn’t that sort of “potential” player, but Turner seems to be getting more done in college so far.
Yeah I do favor production as well.
I’ve just seen a lot of prospects fall when they’ve had outstanding production in college. Potential is a nasty word. The problem with the Hawks is that they had many, many guys on their roster with similar size/skill sets as Williams. They definitely could’ve traded down or just taken CP3 or Williams (I thought CP3 should’ve been taken over Deron BTW).
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I told Randolph that Bill Russell would tell him to keep that ball in play and start the break.
RANDOLPH: "I know. But sometimes, you gotta let ‘em know."
(MT)
I dunno, I think that’s a lot of optimism on Williams. He was seen as a boatload of potential guy, for sure, but there were definitely red flags in terms of him having a long way to go to realize that potential. Plenty of people objected to it, and he definitely wasn’t a strong #1 pick type of prospect when you look across years….
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
Most experts agree Evan Turner is the best player in the draft
Where is a single one of these experts? Everywhere I check has Wall ranked as the top prospect. NBAdraft.net, DraftExpress, ESPN, MyNBADraft.com…..
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Most people are saying
that Turner is the best college player, so I think that’s what our friend got confused about. Wall is widely considered the number one prospect.
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah that’s the impression I’m beginning to get, too…
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 7:02 PM PST up reply actions
Most experts agree Evan Turner is the best player in the draft but say Wall has the best upside.
That’s like the difference between dunleavey and amare I guess? Is the real best player the current best or the future best?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 9:33 AM PST reply actions
We would if John Wall ended up being a better player than him.
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
We won’t regret it, that’s for sure.
you got a mouse in your pocket?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Before a January ceremony honoring Ohio State’s 1960 national championship team, a nervous Evan Turner broke the trophy he was to hand Jerry Lucas.
It wouldn’t be the last precious item he’d break that belonged to a Buckeyes legend.
During a record-setting junior season, “Evan Almighty” piled up a record seven Big Ten player of the week awards despite missing more than four weeks with a fracture in his lower back.
He joined Jim Jackson as the only Buckeyes with 1,000 career points, 500 rebounds and 300 assists.
He leads the league in scoring and rebounding—as a point guard.
For all of that, Turner joins Lucas, the 1961 and ‘62 winner, as the only Buckeyes to be named Sporting News’ national Player of the Year.
“He breaks his back, and they don’t do so well.” Northwestern forward John Shurna told SN. “He comes back, and everyone else around him plays so well.”
That’s just one of the qualities Big Ten opponents admire about Turner.
Minnesota coach Tubby Smith compares him to Hall of Famer Magic Johnson— “a legit 6-7 guard that can do it all.”
Michigan State forward Draymond Green sees some LeBron James in Turner—"because he scores, rebounds and gets everyone involved while leading his team."
Related Links
SN’s postseason awards
Turner is an SN All-American
John Wall is SN frosh of the year
Boeheim is SN coach of the year
.Buckeyes teammate John Diebler says Turner’s game is reminiscent of Scottie Pippen’s—"He can play multiple positions on offense and can guard anyone."
How to stop him, as Big Ten and NCAA Tournament teams will try to do in the coming weeks?
“I don’t know how you do it, but make him pass,” Penn State guard Talor Battle told SN.
“Try to force him to shoot 3s,” Shurna said. "He made a couple against us, and I texted him and said, ‘Where did that come from?’ "
We care about what they do in the NBA, though, not what they do in college. Turner might very well be the better college player this season, but the point is, who is the better NBA prospect?
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
Wall may start off a bit slower his rookie year but he is quite the freak athlete compared to Turner.
Turner seems to be missing the 3 pt shot but if he adds that he will have quite a complete game, he seems to always be in the right place for rebounds and has a defense presence as well.
Wall is as fast or faster than Lawson along with everything else and has the build for the NBA. Wall is a cant miss future star it seems. Turner is an “almost” cant miss. Slight difference it seems but its all hipothetical at this point isnt it.
by Only In Fairfax on Mar 10, 2010 3:02 PM PST reply actions
No one is a “can’t miss.” The vast majority of draft picks, even high lottery picks, end up being busts. I would love to draft Wall and then trade him along with Maggette for a proven top-tier NBA talent.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I would love to draft Wall and then trade him along with Maggette for a proven top-tier NBA talent.
But why would someone with a top talent want to take on Magette and a rookie? are there stupider teams than the Warriors?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
Given Wall's hype and athleticism
we could probably use him and one of our good contracts to get a top talent. With Maggette’s bad contract, we’d probably have to settle for a lesser talent
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 10, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
we could probably use him and one of our good contracts to get a top talent
But if someone would actually trade us a top talent for him that means we should keep him. A team doesn’t give up top talent for less than a sure thing ?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 4:40 PM PST reply actions
Well, you say things like that, but when asked why, it seems to boil down to Turner’s a better college player right now than Wall. Do you have anything beyond that?
by Missing Barry on Mar 10, 2010 8:01 PM PST up reply actions
Mark my words
Lebron will have a better career than either one of them.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 10, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
Mark my words
Kyle Singler will be better than Mike dunleavey
Tastes great!
Less filling!!
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
Ayo Missing Barry.Evan Turner does everything better than Wall does.He is a better scorer a better defender a better rebounder aswell as a better leader.Must say Wall is the better passer but thats it.The Warriors are a better team next year with Turner playing the 3 than they are with Wall playing the 1.On a Side Note do you guys know of Any Lottery Party’s that go on? I know last year at Ricky’s Sports Bar&Grill in San Leandro they had something and most ppl were depressed when the dubs got the 8th spot.
Evan Turner does everything better than Wall does.
Just taking this at face value, assuming it’s true….the point that matters is….so what? Why does that make him a better NBA prospect. Evan Turner is a college junior, he should be better than Wall right now, but the question is, who’s gonna have the better NBA career? Or who’s going to have the better career for the team that drafts him? Even if Turner is better next year, what about 3 years down the road, when Wall is still probably improving a decent amount but Turner is near his peak (basing this on aging curves)?
by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Nah, the point isn’t he’s nearing his peak; it’s that he’s closer to his peak than Jennings or Tyreke, for example, according to research of historical averages. You’re comparing a 21 year old to a 19 year old – we shouldn’t just assume the 21 year old will be better in the future just because he’s better now – he’s farther along in his development because he’s older and more experienced.
by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Having followed Steph closely for 4 years now I will say again … he’s a late bloomer. He’s relatively immature physically compared to most 21 to 22 year old professional athletes and that has been confirmed by xrays which showed his bones in the wrist to be almost 2 standard deviations below the mean for his age group when he was 20 years old. That is, his bone growth centers were still growing at 20 when the average 18 year old has ceased growing and the growth centers are seen to be closed on xray.
Averages are just that. Steph is on the other side of the Bell Curve from Tyreke. Evans is a man-child if there has ever been one. Physically he will get better at a faster than average rate. I agree he’s further along relative to basketball experience.
Well, that’s probably a factor worth taking into account. I don’t really know what to make of it, but anyone else can weigh in to what kind of impact it may or may not have….
by Missing Barry on Mar 11, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
For anyone interested here’s an article from last year when Steph was less than one month shy of 21 and had xrays for an ankle sprain. I can tell you that no one can predict amount of growth from the xrays he had … but the xrays definitely document active growth at 21 which has stopped in average males before 19.
http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2009/02/stephen-curry-not-done-growing.html
I don’t really know what to make of it,
Haha, I don’t know what to make of Curryfor3 following Steffy for 4 years and stalkin his bone xrays?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 11, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
That's on you
just about everyone else in the country can.
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 11, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
I can see Wall being a better Pro than Blake
I’ve seen it already. Wall can create for others at lighting pace. You know how Williams and Paul create shots for everyone else? Imagine that times two. Wall’s speed is just unbelievable and I think he’ll be better than Rose. I like Rose a lot, but he’s more of a scoring point guard a passing one. Wall has the ability to be a star in both categories and I would not trade for Blake Griffin. Blake Griffin has the makings of an all star. John Wall has the makings of a superstar. Why would you trade down no matter how big our needs are?
My Ultimate Realistic Mock Draft for 49ers
1A) Anthony Davis - RT Rutgers
1B) C.J. Spiller - RB/KR/PR Clemson
2) Kareem Jackson - CB Alabama
3) Demaryius Thomas - WR Georgia Tech
4) Mike Johnson - OG Alabama
5) Sean Canfield - QB Oregon State
6) Keaton Kristic - OLB Oregon State
7) Dexter Davis - OLB/DE Arizona State
If we got Wall
Right now, I would be focusing on which superstar the Warriors should trade Curry for.
My Ultimate Realistic Mock Draft for 49ers
1A) Anthony Davis - RT Rutgers
1B) C.J. Spiller - RB/KR/PR Clemson
2) Kareem Jackson - CB Alabama
3) Demaryius Thomas - WR Georgia Tech
4) Mike Johnson - OG Alabama
5) Sean Canfield - QB Oregon State
6) Keaton Kristic - OLB Oregon State
7) Dexter Davis - OLB/DE Arizona State
Or Monta Ellis
I don’t like a Monta/Wall back court, I really don’t.
by Reverend_Randy on Mar 12, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
I’m actually pretty intrigued by that. Imagine the two of them getting out in transition, that would be amazing. Wall has that Lebron-like extra gear in the open court where he absolutely flies, and we already know how well Monta gets up and down. Wall can guard the 2’s, and do most of the creating/ballhandling. It probably is a little more on the “not enough creating for teammates” side, as opposed to the “more creating than you even need” side that Curry/Wall would be….but oh well, I could still see lots of good things coming out of it.
by Missing Barry on Mar 14, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Or Monta Ellis
haha, or everyone else except Rudolf and Morrow, then build a new team around the rookie Wall .
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 12, 2010 8:19 PM PST reply actions
Wall and Biedrins for Bynum
I like this better and Laker’s might too. I can see them taking a chance on a player who has big star potential.
Why would we want Bynum instead of a player who has big star potential, though?
by Missing Barry on Mar 15, 2010 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Since we probably wont get the #1 pick anyway howzabout we forget abour Bynum ,hold onto AB awhile longer and draft Cousins instead.
by Only In Fairfax on Mar 16, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Since we probably wont get the #1 pick anyway howzabout we forget abour Bynum ,hold onto AB awhile longer and draft Cousins instead.
probably best to see what draft position we actually get before drafting anyone?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Mar 16, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
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