Case for drafting Demarcus Cousins
by bojangles408 on Apr 10, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
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PrintSo the end of the season is near and we all should be ready for tank mode, right?! Yes! We should all be in tank mode by now because the top 5 players in this draft can really help out any team, and especially a team like ours that is in need for change at every position besides the 1... You heard it fellas, by now, all of us should have given the keys to our upcoming superstar Stephen the Prodigy Curry!... Does that fit? I mean, I think it fits because his story tells it all. He was the kid of star Dell Curry so he should be a prodigy right? OK, anyways... Our point guard position is pretty much a done deal for I'm hoping the next 8 years or so. The rest of our positions can be changed but the one that we need most right now is the 5. So you read the title and I'm here to make the case for picking Demarcus Cousins no matter what pick we get. This man is a BEAST waiting to be unleashed but also needs to be kept on a leash...
Our team as of now really needs a change at the most critical position in the NBA - Center. It's no secret that the Dubs have been getting pounded on by every team in the NBA that has some size and/or beef and it's basically because we have none to back it up. I can't stress how important the center position is and I'm sure many of us know Biedrins was never and will never be the center that we need to be a championship caliber team. We now have the chance to use our pick on a young center that has the potential to become a very dominating force in the NBA for years to come.
Here are videos to get you in the mood:
Go to the 7:30 minute mark if you just want to see what his play of the game was and his stats and his knocked out teeth.
Ok... I know it's just little boys but at least he's showing us what he can do.
Imagine this being Curry to Cousins! No one wants to be in front of a 270lb beast running the floor!
Alright, so pretty good stuff huh? Yes, it's just high light reels but I can tell you that these highlight reels already impress me more than anything Andris Biedrins has done so far and this guy is still raw.
Take a good look at his draft express
The strengths which he possesses are everything that you can look for in a PF/C.
His weaknesses can all be turned into strengths with time. Big men take the longest to maximize their playing ability.
Look at our team and who we've drafted the past several years. We drafted a couple of guards and a couple of power forwards. It is finally time to draft a legit big man with BEEF!!! Not only does he have BEEF but he has the athleticism and length to become a very dominating force! They pretty much say he's a taller and more athletic Carlos Boozer.
I've been fed up with watching this team trying to compete against giants and not being able to pick up a defensive rebound because they are just too small or get pushed around so easily around the basket. Our best rebounders on the team consists of:
Biedrins who is a fairly good defensive rebounder but can't do jack on the offensive end which includes taking people off the dribble, creating his own shot, shooting a mid range jumper, ability to get to the FT line and of course making them. He also can't be relied on the defensive end for post up defense because he's waaaay to scrawny for a center and gets pushed around like a rag doll against practically any center in the NBA which probably includes our very own Chris Hunter.
Randolph is an OK rebounder but he thrives off getting rebounds with extra effort and jumping ability to get most of them instead of positioning and boxing out. Not only that, but he is looking to block a shot instead of alter it so many times he isn't going to grab the rebound anyways. For him to become the best player he can be, he needs to have a center that can offset his tremendous athletic abilities. Hey... don't we have a chance at that with Demarcus Cousins?! Yes!
Basically... Cousins is a player that can really help us fill a void; he's been the missing piece we've been looking for. Remember Larry Riley saying we're looking for BEEF? Now is the time buddy. Keep to your words and do us all a huge favor by not drafting Favors and drafting the BEEFY and nimble Demarcus Cousins.
Curry would have the high-flyer Randolph to throw some lobs to and Cousins for some high-power moves. It's what I've been waiting for baby...
If somehow we luck into the 1st or 2nd pick, I say trade it away for the 3rd pick so we can still pick up either Wall / Turner or Cousins. If someone else drafts him then we go for Wall / Turner / or Favors. It's that easy fellas! But our priority should be Cousins, hands down.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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If we draft him
what the hell do we do with Randolph, Wright, Beans, and Turiaf.
I do not want to trade the potential of Randolph or Wright. Also Biedrins can still has potential to be an allstar. Beans is a terrific defender and rebounder. He is very good in the pick in roll. He is going to have to work with Rick Barry all summer and Nelly is forcing him. There is no doubt in my mind that he can become a 70% free throw shooter. If he can make free throws his confidence will go way up and he can be a force again and the pick and roll will be deadly. You cannot just give up on Biedrins. His stats last year was no lucky. He can still build from that and become a 15 and 10 guy. Some trades will have to be made, and I think we should draft Turner and trade Corey Maggette and if possible Monta.
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
Beans would be the odd guy out if we drafted any big
AR and BW are still young and should make a nice tandem, Beans isn’t the tough guy we need down low since AR and Wright aren’t really bruisers down low.
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
what the hell do we do with Randolph, Wright, Beans, and Turiaf.
Turiaf is not a starter anyway, AR and One Arm Wright will be fighting for min’s anyway, Beans could be starting or coming off the bench depending on the match-ups.
I do not want to trade the potential of Randolph or Wright. Also Biedrins can still has potential to be an allstar.
Thats a lot of “potential”. Something that Cousins has in oodles. We need to draft the best and let them work out who will start and at what position then see what we can get for the others.
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
Agree with this.
Beans and Turiaf definitely shouldn’t keep us from drafting a big.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Biedrins will never be an all star.
And I agree that Randolph and Wright have a lot of potential, but there is way more potential and polish in Cousins. I keep reading that people are so worried about what will happen with Wright and Randolph, WHO CARES! We still need to draft someone and if Turner is gone, Cousins might be the next best guy. If we have a top pick, we need to draft based on TALENT not positional need. Not only that, but Wright was injured all of this year and cannot be counted on going forward and Randolph has been a head case thus far in his career. Sure he could be great three years down the, but you don’t pass up Cousins on the hope that Wright and Randolph can be productive players in the league (which they aren’t really right now).
"If we draft him"
I have been “shamelessly” pushing for Cousins for months and still feel that he is the right pick for us but I dont feel that picking him means that we have to make big moves in the near future as a result of having him on board.
He is a young big and needs development time and one of the things that he brings is the “option” for size when we need it at C or PF. He should start out with limited but "consistant"minutes off the bench. We play our game with Beans and T as well for the near future and see how it works out. There will always be injury opportunitys for additional minutes.
If Beans gets back to form and Cousins develops then we have an interesting tandum at C position, Cousins has future high post possibilitys as well. I like the variety that he brings to our game and if he later develops into a total dominator then we starts to reposition our game with him in mind . If not he will be a valuable role player in a critical needed role.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I just say trade Corey, draft Evan Turner
How is Biedrins not tough enough? Say what you want about his offense, but he is one of the best rebounders and post defenders in the league.
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
I just say trade Corey, draft Evan Turner
I can’t see a team trading for Corey, especially with the lockout looming, and a lower salary cap for the 10-11 season. Also, every Warriors fan wants Evan Turner, but the 3rd of 4th pick is the likely scenario.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 10, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, if Memphis doesn’t match any Rudy Gay offers then they’re in need of a SF and I think Maggette could fill that position perfectly. If that doesn’t work, then we gotta throw in a guy with potential such as Brandan Wright.
I wouldn't throw in Wright
just to dump Maggette. The only feasible option was the Milwaukee idea for Gadzuric’s expiring (omit Mbah a Moute).
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 10, 2010 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He doesn't have the strength to slow down guys like Bynum
Jefferson, Howard etc. It’s the thick guys that give him issues
The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.
Somewhere out there someone's "That's what she said" meter just went off.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
If you haven't noticed, Beans is a string bean.
I like him, but if we could upgrade we should.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Solid rebounder and shot blocker, but certainly not one of the best post defenders in the league.
He’s good, but blocked shots don’t necessarily mean great defender. For years this team has needed a post presence, whether Beans has been on the floor or not.
I'm a Cousins fan
but why is his conditioning not a red flag ? He only averaged 22 minutes per game and is 270 lbs. Combined with his weak work ethic, I’m concerned that being out of shape could be his demise like Mike Sweetney, Eddy Curry, or Jerome James. I’m not too worried about his temper or immaturity because he’s such a passionate player.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 10, 2010 4:28 PM PDT reply actions
He had great players playing behind him which probably affected his minutes.
Plus, he probably won’t get a ton of playing time right away anyway. It is a red flag, i agree, but I don’t think it should matter all that much.
but why is his conditioning not a red flag ?
Conditioning only takes a few months,we got plenty of time to tune him up. Talent and size take a lot longer to create if ever :>) .
and No not all Warriors fans want Turner. I want him about as much as I wanted YiJing aling a couple of seasons ago and we see how that worked out? I don’t see an NBA quality body on Turner, not enough upside for my taste.
At this point if we had a chance at Wall I’d quickly grab him but otherwise I’d go for big Cuz and if he’s gone I’d grab the guy with most upside in that 4-7 range.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 10, 2010 5:00 PM PDT reply actions
Yi made a lot of us look bad. lol.
I’d agree with drafting Cousins over Turner in the top 3. Cousins just has the more upside. Turner should be fine at 2 with his body. I think he’ll have trouble playing the 3 without getting stronger. I think the only guy with more upside than Cousins is arguably Wall.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Ya I'm not sold on Turner either.
I’m a Favors guy, myself. But I’d certainly be happy with any of Wall, Turner, Cousins or FAvors.
I know this may seem like I'm a bit of a homer, but...
Demarcus Cousins has red flags if there have ever been any.
Bad attitude: Remember Eddie Griffin? Couldv’e had a good career if he didn’t have a bad attitude. that guy has the muffs. I mean, I watched vids of him- those GA tech guards absolutely suck- yet he still catches those passes…I mean, Al Horford isn’t bad, is he?
-Out of shape: A lot of people are out of shape…but 20 minutes a game for his career? If you’re not in NBA shape it’s as bad as not having an NBA body…
-Touch ability/shooting ability:
Okay, look, as far as this goes, anybody remember what Kwame Brown could do? In high school, he could shoot 3s, he could handle, etc. but that was HS. A legit C could have been 6-7. This is the league. Obviously, his success never really translated.
But Derrick Favors
and No not all Warriors fans want Turner. I want him about as much as I wanted YiJing aling a couple of seasons ago and we see how that worked out? I don’t see an NBA quality body on Turner, not enough upside for my taste.
To sway your opinion a bit, turner is 6-7, 217, and has lightning quick feet, can be a great defender, passer, playmaker. Think Lebron 40 pounds lighter, wasn’t so explosive, and two inches shorter.
Think Lebron 40 pounds lighter, wasn’t so explosive, and two inches shorter.
No way have I ever thought ET was a smaller less explosive LeBron. Which could vaguely apply to a lot of players.
I’m still going with an upside of a Manu Ginobili until he steps on an NBA hardwood.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
A smaller less explosive LeBron
would probably be closer to Tyreke Evans, not Evan Turner.
by Reverend_Randy on Apr 10, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah Cousins could be a bust
Evan Turner is NBA ready and is sure to be productive.
Also I think Maggette is tradeable. Contenders want his scoring off the bench. I think Corey deserves to go to a contender too. He is a terrific scorer and very productive player. He has worked really hard for us and has not been winey or complaining.
I think we should trade him to New Orleans where he could help the Hornets contend. We could trade him for Morris Peterson and Julian Wright. Release Peterson, assign Wright to d league. Draft Turner, resign Morrow, Azubukie, CJ, and Anthony Tolliver call it a great offseason. The Dubs might also be able to get a future first or second round pick also.
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
Also I think Maggette is tradeable. Contenders want his scoring off the bench. I think Corey deserves to go to a contender too. He is a terrific scorer and very productive player. He has worked really hard for us and has not been winey or complaining.
I think we should trade him to New Orleans where he could help the Hornets contend. We could trade him for Morris Peterson and Julian Wright. Release Peterson, assign Wright to d league. Draft Turner, resign Morrow, Azubukie, CJ, and Anthony Tolliver call it a great offseason. The Dubs might also be able to get a future first or second round pick also.
I agree about Evan Turner, but look at the situation for Magette: He’s not a guy in his last years in the league that everyone would consider a very seasoned veteran. He’s on the half end of his career. He’s not really the kind of guy you would want, unless you want an SF that can guard a big bulk guy…the spurs wanted him, but now with Jefferson and Manu starting to click, they want to rethink that.
Of Course they would want him
The Hornets are never gonna do anything without another piece, they will just always keep missing the playoffs. Corey Maggette could be the piece. Corey is highly efficient and could fill their hole at sf. Team him with the best point guard in the World in CP3, all star David West, talented sophmores Darren Collison and Marcus Thorton, and the x factor Emeka Okafor who will be a 15 and 10 guy again. There is no way he won’t if he is healthy and playing with Paul who makes everybody better. Also chemistry will be improved. The Hornets would be a top 6 or 7 team in the West. If they are ever sruggling to score, just put the ball in Corey’s hands and watch him go to work.
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
I think if we get the third pick
we should take cousins. If you don’t watch college basketball then heres a suprise for you. A player with a body like shaq and howard can hit the midrange and has lightweight handles
Curry | Williams
Ellis | Morrow
Buike | Maggette | Radmanavic
Randolph | Wright | Tolliver
Cousins | Beidrins | Turiaf
We might not have the option of trading him, except for a complete salary dump. I dunno … trading him right now seems too much like “selling low.” Turiaf’s friendlier contract makes him a much more likely trading chit, imo. Plus Biedrins, when healthy, is a better player than Ronny.
Or we hold onto all three, say goodbye to Hunter, and see how things develop.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 10, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
with a draft of Cousins
Morpheus Joy-love is correct, the most likely counter moves are loosing Hunter, or using Turiaf in a trade. Because of their contracts, as we well know, any trade off of Biedrins or M’gette will have a heavy extra tariff, which could be any useful and relatively cheap player incl. Morrow, Randolph, Turiaf, and/or taking back another heavy contract.
I'd say keep Beans as well.
He’s at an all time low. He could rebound next season and be back to his nice production. I like Beans when he’s not our only option down there. Same thing with Ronny.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
+1 Kenntoe, the great thing about Cousins is that he is a young "compliment" to the other bigs.
Rather than a similiar player. Also we can address the SF position later on. I still wonder if Toliver could back up at the 3 and just find a way to unload Radman.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's why I give him the nod over Favors.
Cousins has a skillset that no other Warrior has. Plus I think he’ll contribute a lot quicker than Favors will.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
by kenntoe on Apr 11, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Nellie is the coach next season (he probably will be) and we draft Cousins, then we wouldn’t even see Biedrins play.
Why not? He’s played him plenty in the past. Something like 24 minutes for Beans, 12 for Cousins, and 12 for Ronny to start the season sounds pretty good to me. As Cuz progresses, you gradually siphon off Ronny’s minutes; or if Cuz breaks out, you start pondering a trade.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 10, 2010 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Cousins is a pretty dominating big man. If Nellie likes this guy, then I doubt Biedrins would get playing time or very little. Nellie has been highly critical of Biedrins this past season. If he goes back to his old ways next season and becomes a double double guy, then I can see Beans getting the playing time.
Maybe as Plan B
When Cousins gets in foul trouble. Or vice versa. 12 fouls better than 6?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
And I don’t see what the big deal is. AB coming off the bench to tear up the others 2nd stringers is a pretty sweet deal. 9M is overpaying for that service sure but we have a few years for Cousins rookie contract to expire to decide what to do.
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
Cousins is a pretty dominating big man.
in college who gets in foul trouble.
Most young big men tend to have higher foul rates.
Unless the next CBA is radically different, Turiaf is likely to opt out after next season (seeing as how he makes roughly $4 million a season which is pretty low for a rotation worthy big man; Even guys like Desagana Diop, Nick Collison, Etan Thomas, Chris Wilcox make $6-7 million).
Also, Cousins (or Favors) will be on a rookie scale & shouldn’t see a pay scale bump until after Andris’ contract is up.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
What if Cousins becomes all that he’s hyped about in his rookie season? Somewhere around 16 and 10 per 36? You’re going to have a 9 million dollar center come off the bench for him? Cousins could be a bust, but if he becomes a very solid C in his rookie season (which I doubt, but you never know), then I’d rather have a cheaper Ronny Turiaf come off the bench and maybe try and deal Andris to a team in order to get some good role players.
What if Cousins becomes all that he’s hyped about in his rookie season? You’re going to have a 9 million dollar center come off the bench for him?
Did you look at how much back up C’s like Nick Collison & Joel Przybilla make? While he does technically start, Bynum essentially plays behind the Odom/Gasol frontline while getting paid $12 million this season. With all 3 being extended, Bynum could be a $16 million back up C in the coming years.
Ronny is getting a pay raise to rougly $6-7 million after next season. The difference between Ronny & Andris’ salaries will be $2-3 million by the time Cousins is in year 2. Andris’ next contract (at age 27 mind you) may very well be at the same price as Ronny ($6-7 million). Andris (23) is 3 years younger than Ronny (26).
Combined with Cousins being on the rookie scale, you’re probably only paying $13-14 million for your C position to be locked up for the next 4 seasons. And as soon as Cousins rookie deal is up, Andris’ deal will also be over & he’ll likely command about the same amount that Ronny would be making only he’ll be 27 instead of 30.
Either way, big men are easy to trade. Every team is always looking to add more quality big men.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
If they are healthy.
lol.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Agree sleepy. Limited but consistant minutes for Cousins starting out.
And he could also play some PF minutes if needed ie: injurys/Jazz etc. I would much rather have Cousins to fill in at PF when needed than having to play Maggette at the 4.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Well
Shaq was like 7’1" and consistently played well above 300 lbs for his career. Dwight is shorter than Cousins, but he’s a freakish athlete. I don’t think Cousins compares favorably to either player.
by Reverend_Randy on Apr 10, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions
CREW?
Curry, Randolph, Ellis, Williams?
by freerandolph on Apr 11, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
yes but how
we would get nothing for him and we would not be able to show his potential. So we would get screwed over in any deal invloving Beans
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
I voted someone else because u dont have to have a dominant Center to go far in the west. But you do have to have a good perimeter shooter and a guy that can score at will which is Evan Turner. But Cousins is second on my board. Steph would average at least 4 more assists than he does now if we get Cousins. He drops dimes to guys that can finish.
This is the Center the Warriors are probably going to end up drafting in the second round
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Artsiom-Parakhouski-5690/
No guarantee
What happened to “potential” being referred to as the “p” word? Give me someone who actually produced on the floor over a guy who has all the tools but didn’t. Cousins should’ve dominated playing with a point guard like Wall and by going against other teams’ centers who were 40 to 50 pounds lighter. You can’t coach pride or determination. There’s no guarantee he will start taking the game of basketball more seriously just because he’ll be in the professional ranks.
by ChronicMasticator on Apr 10, 2010 11:46 PM PDT reply actions
When he was on the court.
I’m pretty sure he took the game seriously.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Cousins should’ve dominated playing with a point guard like Wall and by going against other teams’ centers who were 40 to 50 pounds lighter.
Should have, and did.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Much more productive than Favors has been
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Apr 14, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Cousins is a safer pick than Favors IMO
Look at how Dejuan Blair turned out. Cousins can be just as good as Blair in his first year. I’ll take a future 20/10 guy instead of another PF and keeping Biedrins.
You realize...
there are some major differences between blair and cousins. blair is explosive, athletic, and can rebound the hell out of the ball. Cousins is lazy, and only gets 10 boards a game because he’s so big and college bigs aren’t as big. cousins is not blair. Hell, imo, Turner is more like Blair. Both are 6-7, both are extremely good rebounders.
Now Derrick Favors…that guy is a vacuum. I mean a straight-up vacuum. Probably a better rebounder than Randolph. And he will probably stay on the floor longer than Randolph.
And a better shotblocker. And better hands. and he’s 18. Favors is my pick.
You know Cousins rebounded better than Favors did.
And not by a little either.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Favors is still an excellent rebounder in his own right.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Favors is good, 11.6 per 40 (pace adjusted), but he’s not in Blair’s range 14.2 per 40 (pace adjusted) as a Freshman (18.6 as a Sophomore). Cousins is in that realm, 15.9 per 40 (pace adjusted).
Is it merely his size? His back up (who is also entering the draft) Daniel Orton who is listed at 6’10" 260, pulled down 9.6 rebs per 40 (pace adjusted). It would have been nice to see what someone like Kendrick Perkins would have pulled down in college to have something to compare Cousins to.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Favors’ rebounding, I think, took a hit with Georgia Tech’s playing style. Between Favors and Cousins, I think Favors would be the better rebounder here because of the style we play. Cousins played less than 24 minutes per game in Kentucky’s somewhat up-and-down offense. Favors excels in an up-and-down game.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Checked their rebounding rates.
ORR
Cousins 17.4% vs Favors 10.9%
DRR
Cousins 24.9% vs Favors 20.1%
Remember Daniel Orton also played in the Kentucky system & he’s averaging 9.6 rebounds per 40 (pace adjusted). Favors may be a more suited to run among other things, but it’s hard to find any evidence that he’ll be a better rebounder than Cousins.
Actually, if there’s one sure thing about Cousins, he’s probably going to be a good rebounder in the NBA. Rebounding #’s tend to translate barring a change of position in the NBA or some significant height or weight deficiency.
Don’t have the pace adjusted #‘s, but Dampier wasn’t a great rebounder in college 12.96 per 40 & he’s actually a fairly decent rebounder in the NBA (17th this season among all qualified players). At worst Cousins is probably going to be an NBA starting C quality player. It’s really hard to see how Cousins could possibly be worse than others with similar size like Kendrick Perkins or Brendan Haywood (10.2 rebounds per 40 at UNC (not pace adjusted).
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I never said Cousins wouldn’t be a good rebounder. In our system, though, what would make Cousins a better rebounder than Favors? Can Cousins even play 28 minutes a game? I don’t know. Adjusting stats for 36 and 40 minutes is nice and everything, but what good is it if you can’t play 30 minutes?
I don’t know what Erick Dampier, Kendrick Perkins, Brendan Haywood and Daniel Orton have to do with this.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd assume that he can play 30 minutes a game. Maybe not his rookie year, but we probably don't want him playing that much his rookie season anyway...
Almost every player in the NBA is capable of playing 30 minutes a game, it doesn’t seem like anything worth questioning in a player…
by freerandolph on Apr 11, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s worth questioning because he only played less than 24 minutes per game last season.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Fouls
Most College bigs have a hard time getting over 25 mins because of nature of college game
I understand that, but it’s still a bit of a concern for me.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Minuted per game
Freshman year of college:
Brook Lopez- 25.2
Al horford- 22.8 (and only 27 his junior year)
Joakim Noah- 25.9 (SOPH year)
B Wright- 27.4
by tafkasam on Apr 12, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The SOLE reason the Warriors play so fast is because of lack of bigs
Nellie will play a big if he is good enough and eitherway, nellie wont be here long.
I don’t see DeMarcus as slow or fast. He’s somewhere inbetween
So? Favors is a vacuum. Cousins had more rebounds per minute, but Favors is still an excellent rebounder. Cousins, honestly isn’t that great a rebounder. He was the only big along with Orton. Favors played with Lawal and Peacock and still got his.
What about Patterson? So Favors played with Lawal and Peacock. Cousins played with Orton and Patterson.
I think your selling Favors the wrong way. He might have more upside or potential but how do you bank on that when you have a guy who’s better at nearly the same age and level right now.
If i was a big Favors supporter i might attack Cousins on his conditioning and minutes per game as may translate poorly to the NBA’s 82 game years but certainly not his rebounding.
As of now i’m in favor (slap knee) of drafting Cousins or Johnson before D Fav.
Really?
You’d draft the 22 year old Johnson or 19 year old, bi-polar, low work ethic cousins over an 18 year old athletic specimen with defensive ability much better than Cousins? Tell me, what do we need more? Good, bulky defenders, or unathletic bigs that aren’t known to D up, especially against bigger guys?
I’m telling you, we need Favors more than both of them.
What we need is the best basketball players we can get. Johnson is far above Favors. If Favors ever get’s near johnsons production by age 22, that’s in 3 MORE YEARS you’ll be right. But Potential more than not…..stays as potential.
Keep in mind if that is the case and 3 years from now Favors is a solid NBA starter. He’ll have one year left on his rookie contract and may be ready to bolt out of town.
But Potential more than not…..stays as potential.
Dwight Howard
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Shaq
Hakeem
Nash
Dirk
etc.
If you know which players clearly have upside and which don’t, then they won’t be busts. However, if guys like Wright are traded for WITHOUT a pre-draft workout, then you’ll have issues.
Dwight Howard
Lebron James
Kobe Bryant
Shaq
Hakeem
Nash
Dirk
etc.
If you know which players clearly have upside and which don’t, then they won’t be busts.
… and … the earth is round.
Dude, stop babbling? I mean, it’s kinda fun watching Homer Simpson school you, but you could just quietly read his posts and learn a little.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Fact: Cousins is unathletic…Favors is athletic…
…
…
…
…
…
Fact: this is an opinionated post…kind of…
Let me reword that, Sleepy...
If you know which players clearly have upside and which don’t, then they won’t be busts.
If you’re the Nellie type to be skilled enough to fish talents out of the d-league, chances are you know who’s going to live up to their upside and who isn’t. So trust Nellie, was what I was trying to say.
Nellie got found a great talent in Dirk and a great talent in Nash, so let him decide. In other words, Nellie is our filter.
Nellie got found a great talent in Dirk and a great talent in Nash, so let him decide. In other words, Nellie is our filter.
but nellie likes smallball and being the underdog so he’s gonna pick the skinniest less strong guy he can. and then he’s gonna retire and leave us with the mess.
We really should hire outside consultants to draft for us based on normal league standards then when we get our new coach we’ll at least have a decent chance to start winning right away?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
chances are you know who’s going to live up to their upside and who isn’t
If Nellie knows the future, that’s news to me. It’s impossible to know who’s going to live up to their upside and who isn’t without being able to predict the future. Maybe some people are better judges of who’s more likely to live up to their potential, but they’re still going to be wrong sometimes. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
bi-polar, low work ethic cousins
There is no evidence that Cousins is bi-polar or does not work hard. It’s funny how other players who have put up the types of rebounding #‘s Cousins has or dive to the floor as often as he does are considered hard workers, but b/c fans & the media don’t like the way Cousins carries himself, they automatically label him as lazy. People are more likely to take you seriously if you stick to facts.
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to like Favors over Cousins without making stuff up.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why do you think there are rumors of his attitude being bipolar-esque or his work ethic being questioned? It could just be a rumor, but nonetheless a rumor I don’t want to know the truth about.
Favors is known as a hard worker because…he went from Randolph’s weight to 246…and is very athletic.
Favors is known as a hard worker because…he went from Randolph’s weight to 246…
Haha, that sounds like he worked hard on the twinkies and ho-ho’s?
sounds like you are just not cool enough to roll with the big bi-polar cuz?
I think he’d make a great balance however to Stef’s stepford player image? This is afterall oakland home of the raiders?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Twinkies and ho-ho’s? You’re saying Favors bulked up on twinkies and ho-ho’s when his athleticism is considered 2nd to Wall in the draft?
I guarentee you, that when the pre-draft workouts go in, Cousins will have the highest % body fat than any other player.
Favors is 6-10. Cousins is 6-10. Both have huge wings. Favors has bigger, better hands…Cousins has better post moves…but Favors is the better defender…what do the Dubs need more?
A guy that can work the pick and roll with Curry, rebound, and defend?
Or a guy that can score in the low post and rebound. Your pick.
a guy that can score in the low post and rebound.
again and again and again.
I’m bored as hell watching smallball.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m bored as hell watching running and gunning. But if we want to be the OKC-type, who plays very good D without a shotblocker and without a massive big like Cousins, we have to have an athletic big that can run the floor. OKC not only plays good D, they run the floor. And Durant runs with them. We need a guy that can play D and run the floor like Favors. Upside or no upside, he’s athletic and has great hands. He can’t bust that up.
Ibaka is pretty legit as a shotblocker.
Durant’s pretty decent as a SF too.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Kevin Durant is good at basketball.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Oops.
I meant in regards to shotblocking.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
And that other stuff you mean too.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Ibaka is a role player
Ibaka’s good, but they really don’t have a big-time shotblocking presence, which is impressive for a team with defense and good as theirs
we have to have an athletic big that can run the floor.
Haha, No we don’t , with the right players we can walk it up and savor our superiority by flaunting it :>) Our boys will stay fresher and be less likely to get injured playing slower and we’ll have less to worry about.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope, we don't need more athletic big men
Cousins is athletic but isn’t super athletic. We have a somewhat “athletic” big man in Biedrins. We need post presence down low that Cousins possesses.
by bojangles408 on Apr 11, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Let's make that judgement after the combine.
There is a lot of time between now and then.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Cousins is meant to have very good hands, good footwork, and appears to be a great finisher. I’m sure given a bit of practice, he’d be fantastic on the P-and-R with Curry. Also, while his feet are probably not as quick as Favors’, he seems to have cared enough about D to have averaged 2.7 blocks and 1.5 steals per 36 minutes as Freshman. And of course 8.9 defensive rebounds (to go with a ridiculous 6.2 on the offensive glass).
So it’s: a guy that work the pick and roll with Curry, rebound, and defend versus … a guy that work the pick and roll with Curry, rebound, and defend. I’ll take … one of the above. Or … whoever falls to us, if we’re lucky enough to have one of them fall to us.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Say we get the second pick and John Wall goes first. Would you take Cousins/Favors over Evan Turner?
Tough question. First, if I thought either of the teams sitting at #3 or #4 was red-hot for Turner, I’d see what I could extort out of them for flipping picks.
If that’s not an option … I think I still need to study up a bit more, but right now my sense is that I’d rather have Cousins or Favors than Turner. It’s just perfect timing for this team to take a bulky big man with a ton of upside, since (a) we already have two solid centers in place, and can bring a new guy along slowly; and (b) Biedrins’ contract will be expiring exactly when their rookie contracts are up.
Heck, I’d even consider taking Cousins or Favors over Wall, since — even though I’m generally all “BPA” all the time — I don’t love the idea of trading Curry or taking Curry or Wall off the ball.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I love the idea of Wall off the ball, I don’t see what everyone’s problem is. Obviously the “look at Superstar X who’s kinda similar so obviously that’s what Prospect Y is going to be” line of thinking is BS, but in this case, I think Wade serves as a good indicator of how a guy like Wall doesn’t need to play PG to be effective, just looking at their style of play rather than their overall level of play. Plus, think of Wall and Curry in transition….
I don’t see any real downside here, other than we’ll finally need to make a decision to move Monta.
by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t see any real downside hereother than we’ll finally need to make a decision to move Monta.
Fixed. ;-)
[Hey, welcome back, man. You’ve been sorely missed.]
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha, thanks, I realized I was spending way too much of my time on here (and watching the Warriors in general) so I decided to take a break. Job performance is up, I’ve been able to follow teams that are less bad than the Warriors (mostly the Giants), I’ve had time to start playing basketball again myself, been hitting the gym consistently….and from the looks of it, I didn’t miss a whole lot……
I figure my best move going forward is to pick and choose the threads I participate in carefully. ;)
by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
+2nd that. Welcome back Barry. Your thoughtful, even handed comments have been missed!
I figured that it hac something to do with baseball starting.Ha :-)
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
and from the looks of it, I didn’t miss a whole lot……
Understatement of the year…
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 13, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
No. Sorry, I got a little crazy.
Pick Wall at #1, then move Monta.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 14, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
but nonetheless a rumor I don’t want to know the truth about.
Why wouldn’t you want to know the truth?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
But knowing the facts will help us make an informed decision.
I’d want to know as many facts as possible before I invest in anyone.
Saying you don’t want to know the facts is slightly illogical.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
uh
can you explain how Favors is considered the “safe pick”? Both Cousins and Favors have downsides. You obviously think Favors downside is not as great as Cousins, but it certainly isn’t the consensus opinion.
Here’s a news flash, if either of them were considered “safe”, they’d be the #1 pick. It’s only because big men are so valuable, that either of these guys are going as high as they are.
Since they’re both clearly talented on the court, I think Favors is the safer pick because of the “non-ball skills,” if you will.
- Focus
- Maturity
- Mental toughness
- Off-court red flags?
- Questionable intangibles
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
again with the DraftExpress?
Seriously, though. “safer” != “safe”. Those are two very different things. And I disagree that they are both “clearly talented” on the court. Whereas Cousins has demonstrable skills in the post, Favors is getting by purely on his athleticism at this point. I live in Atlanta, and have seen him play numerous times on tv here. Having said that, he’s obviously in better shape. So there’s that.
again with the DraftExpress?
I think it’s more legitimate coming from an actual source. If I said it myself, what would you say then?
I live in Atlanta, and have seen him play numerous times on tv here.
Then you should know that he has quick moves in the post and that he can get to the rim. Once he gets there, he can also finish with either hand.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
he's quick and athletic
He’s not that skilled though. I haven’t seen him dribble around guys or make gorgeous no-look passes like Cousins. Have you?
It’s a good skill to have, but it’s not that important.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
those are just examples
of his skillset. Favors is not nearly as skilled. I guess I could point you to DraftExpress…maybe you’ll believe them, if you don’t take my word for it.
I know Cousins is skilled. I am a college basketball fan and enjoy the game more than the NBA.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
stop flaunting atheltic, this alone do not make for a good bball player. Randolph is long and athletic but still does not have enough game for his size. Its kinda like having a computer with the latest hardware but running dos. Favors is quite athletic but is much raw and lacks moves/skills, these moves/skills and overall game take time to develop if they ever do. Cousins got more game.
Its kinda like having a computer with the latest hardware but running dos.
I like that analogy. The thing is, though, you can go out and buy Windows (or Linux or some other better O/S) and all of a sudden your machine is looking pretty good. In this analogy, though, it would be like hardware upgrades are not an option, so if you don’t have the hardware to begin with…..well, it really puts a limit on what your machine is capable of.
The point is you can work hard and improve skills, whereas athleticism (as it pertains to all physical qualities that affect basketball ability) is something you either have or you don’t. You can’t change it in any meaningful way.
by Missing Barry on Apr 12, 2010 6:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually you can change in a very meaningful way. You can gain strength, speed, quickness, leaping ability, dexterity and coordination. Almost to the same extent that you can add skill or as we are saying here; soft ware. I would argue both have their natural limits probably on an equal basis. As the mind and body have certain capacities. What you can’t teach (change) as the old adage goes…is height.
By way of example Cousin may be able lose weight, gain speed, and increase his vertical easier than Biedrins could improve his FT% or that Favors could develop a solid “go to move” or ….Player X to use their left (off hand). Make sense? By further way of example, is it easier for a player to increase their vertical leap or their assist to TO ratio? Both the mind and body have their limits.
Although Favors expresses Superior athleticism it’s clear that Cousins possess at least equally the difference in game, skill, “software”, or learning ability evident by his incredible progression to date. It’s not unreasonable to assume that he will continue to get better as it is to assume that Favors will continue to improve at the same rate he has displayed to date. My observations lead me to believe that Favors is developing at a much slower pace.
As a way of recent example a lot of teams past on Stephen Curry last year due to projected limited athletic capacity and the ability to play point guard. But he had and incredible ability to learn ball handling, passing, and playmaking. Much quicker than say Tyreke Evans and is now battling him for ROY.
It’s funny how different people see things. The same people who say to draft Favors over Cousins would not draft Johnson over Tuner. Johnson is the superior athlete and under such reasons his higher capacity because he theoretically could add Evan Turner’s Software.
I may appear bi polar on the issue because I’m a supporter of Johnson and Cousins but to me it means little how much athletic capacity you have if you don’t have the capacity to learn how to use it properly. I see dramatic improvement in both these players regardless of age (Johnson) and have no reason to believe that they won’t be able to continue improving. Favors, Beidrins, even AR* to some extent cast serious doubt on learning ability. To me that is the biggest bust flag their is.
*AR has shown significant signs of improvement although at a slower pace than I think most of us hoped.
to me it means little how much athletic capacity you have if you don’t have the capacity to learn how to use it properly
That’s fine, everyone’s going to weight these things differently, and I don’t think there’s any convincing “correct” answer. I’m sure in some situations you can make a pretty good case you’re right.
On the other hand….
Actually you can change in a very meaningful way. You can gain strength, speed, quickness, leaping ability, dexterity and coordination. Almost to the same extent that you can add skill or as we are saying here
I’m not buying this at all. These are athletes we’re talking about that spend their lives being in top shape. At that high a level, there just aren’t any meaningful things you can do to change your athleticism. Small things? Sure. In rare instances maybe someone like Cousins, if we assume he’s in poor shape, will have the potential to gain a lot simply by getting into shape for the first time….but elite athletes who are already in shape simply can’t gain very much. Your arms are a certain length. Your height is set. Your muscles are already working close to their peak – if they weren’t, you probably wouldn’t be NBA caliber to begin with. Can’t change how many fast twitch fibers you have. These things are pretty set in professional athletes. How many players can you name transformed their physical athletic traits when they were already a professional athlete? On the other hand, all you have to do is work hard to improve something like shooting ability.
I’m not disagreeing with your overall point, but I think you’re dead wrong about this one specific aspect. There just isn’t much left for these guys to gain athletically – that’s why they’re the best in the world.
by Missing Barry on Apr 12, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
great point about fast twitch muscle fiber. I see where you are coming from on that but i still feel that there are a lot of big men that have to physically develop before they can be truely effective or dominate in the league EQUALLY as there are just as many that come into the league who are physically there but need to develop the skill before they are truely effectve. i.e. Mbenga, dampier, tyrus thomas, etc. It appears to me that frequently the typical ‘bust’ never get’s the skill. I can concede that Favors has more potential but is also more of a gamble. Cousins to me is the safer pick.
I guess the point i’m trying to make is tha natural skill is equally pure talent. Highly developed skill is just as rare and hard to find as athleticism. A player like Cousins in his freshman year exhibited a very unusual amount of natural skill, foot work, ability to use his body, a sense for rebounding etc. all while lacking quite a bit a fundemental technique. he’s shown solid ability to pass, dribble and dominate in a way that is just as promising if not more promising than just another super athelete who has a ton of ……eh…potential.
Really, i will be happy with either Favors or Cousins or Johnson.
Really, i will be happy with either Favors or Cousins or Johnson.
We’d have been 100% guaranteed a shot at one of them if we had just lost our last three games… ;-(
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 13, 2010 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
We’d have been 100% guaranteed a shot at one of them if we had just lost our last three games
Now do you believe me when I say nellie is a psycho that don’t want to build a roster that he’d be expected to win with? What other excuse could he have for not wanting to add a free high quality player?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
How many players can you name transformed their physical athletic traits when they were already a professional athlete?
Bonds went from well built to over bulky over the years ?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha that’s because Bonds is the greatest of all time.
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Bonds is the greatest of all time.
Haha, greatest dope slurper?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Tiger doesn’t count, golf isn’t really a sport.
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Again, golf isn’t a sport. Apples and oranges. :)
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Personally I think there are a lot. To name a few… Shaq, Howard, the Admiral, Pippen, Garnet, Rondo, etc. to some extent this is needless brain damage. Are you saying that players don’t often come into the league physically under developed and through hard work create for them selves ideal NBA bodies which, in turn, equate to increased physical/ athletic performance? Gaining muscle and losing body fat while maintaining the same weight and or speed/ vertical is an incredible accomplishment. It does happen. Particularly when the league allowed HS draftees.
what I’m really getting at is that I think players like B.Wright who didn’t come into the league with an NBA body but did have quite a bit of skill are still quality players…at least useful. At this point it’s probably safe to assume he won’t ever build the physic that will allow him to over power his opponents but he still has the ability to be relatively mistake free and effective in terms of production where as a player like Kama Brown, Darko, etc who have the body and never are able to develop the skill set to be efficiently useful are typically a larger gamble. They tend to care more risk in terms of BUST.
One of the many reasons i am so high on Wes Johnson is that he has shown significant improvement. Improvement on an incredible scale, both physically and skill wise. Has he maxed out or is he still getting better? We just don’t know anymore than we know if Favors can develop at all. it didn’t seem he took much of a step in skill from playing in college.
In a case like Dwight – that’s simply his body fully developing, because at 18 years old it wasn’t. All those guys you named were elite athletes – you’r naming guys who have undergone some sort of physical change (and I don’t even agree with all those, Rondo for instance tested off the charts at the combine and still looks a heck of al ot like he did as a rookie), but not a single one of them really improve their athleticism substantially. Dwight was already a ridiculous athlete, so were Pippen, Shaq, Robinson, Rondo, Garnett….there’s a big difference between filling out/putting on some muscle and actually changing from a not elite athlete into an elite one. Any gains those guys had were marginal – as they were already ridiculously athletic – Shaq averaged 23.4 points and 13.9 rebounds a game as a rookie – what about that screams “athletic transformation”? You either have the athletic package or you don’t, in Shaq’s case, it was quite apparent he did long before he entered the NBA.
Basically, what I’m saying is if a guy isn’t an elite athlete heading into the NBA….well, he’s not going to be able to all of a sudden transform into one.
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay Shaq may not have been the best example. Dwight Howard naturally athletic as he is, would not be as productive as he is today without the extra strength. Obviously he’s put in a lot of work. Both skill wise and physically but it’d be foolish to say that they aren’t dependently tied or that one was easier to achieve than the other. In his case let’s assume it was equally challenging. In others it maybe be more difficult to optimize thier physical bodies (b Wright) while some have no problem (Mbenga) and some pick up skills quickly while other still max out at a lower level.
I don’t necessarily disagree that much with you. I’m okay with your “marginal increase athletically” comment and I think we are getting distracted. I never meant to imply that someone can choose to be an elite athlete by hard work. I’m simply saying that developing your body to its potential or increasing to your physical capacity is just as easy/ challenging as increasing your basketball skill to its potential. I’m saying that the adaptation of elite basketball skill is as rare or valuable as elite athleticism. Point being that Cousins show cased raw skill vs Favors raw athleticism and that he at least is equally talented. That being said, it’s more often than not that the BIG BUST never get’s the skill/ game you wish he could rather than the guy who has a natural ability to pick up the nuances of the game.
Now maybe we need a home run swing and should gamble. Maybe you think Cousins physic will limit or hinder his skill. I don’t see it but I suppose you could try to make the argument that he’s a below average athlete…. I guess.
You are right that most players coming into the NBA are at least above average athletically.
I simply mean to say that elite skill is not necessarily easier to find than elite athleticism and that both can be enhanced by hard work at an equally challenging rate depending on the individual. You can’t just assume that the “hardware” as the capacity to operate the “software”.
I’ve actually been trying to stay out of the Cousins/Favors debate – I don’t have an opinion at this point and think it sidetracks us from the discussion I’m interested in – what I’m interested in is the “how easy is it to improve physically vs skill” aspect of things, and I still have a large disagreement from what I think you’re saying. I think it is much easier to get a substantial gain from hard work when working on skills such as shooting, ballhandling, post moves, etc then it is to get some sort of physical gain. Almost every single NBA athlete is near their peak physically, and their just isn’t much room to grow beyond physical maturation that comes with age.
So I think it’s much easier to develop a skill like shooting and ballhandling and get a substantial gain as a player overall than to try to work on your physical athleticism. That said, I also think there are a lot of skills that seem to be more along the lines of athleticism – where it’s just something soemone has or doesn’t. You look at a guy like Curry, and some of the stuff he does is stuff other players simply aren’t capable of learning, no matter how hard they try. So there’s definitely a gray area where some aspects I would call “skill” are just inherit traits, but then there are other obvious ones (examples I’ve been using: shooting, ballhandling) that just take repetition, and any player that really wants to put in the time can learn to do it well.
As for judging a prospect overall….well, it’s tough, there are so many things to evaluate and we’re all gonna weight them differently, and we’re going to have differences of opinion on how good players currently are at certain things and how good they can become, and how likely they are to achieve that. So there’s lots of room for good discussion.
Personally, I lean towards better athlete prospects on the basis that they have “superstar potential” (most superstars have a very good physical package). Even if the good athletes, on average, become lesser players, I’m into finding superstars and I’d rather fail 9 times but hit a home run the 10th than find 4 solid players and only 6 duds.
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
(The more talent is already in place, though, the more a team should lean towards the "higher average" production.
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
i think you make some great points and can see your side clearly. This is actually a worthy conversation that would warrant further research. If i was a GM i’d want to have similiar type (opposing view) conversations as they usually lead to better understanding or at least a balanced perspective.
I think where we land is on a difference in evaluating and valueing different things from a prospect. it’s hard for me to see a clear black and white conclusion on this one.
I particularly enjoy this time of year. Maybe being a perpetual draft team has made me this way.
-here’s to hoping we land a top 3 pick or at leat have a shot at either of these guys.
here’s to hoping we land a top 3 pick or at leat have a shot at either of these guys.
Amen.
by Missing Barry on Apr 14, 2010 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
golf is a sport
from dictionary.com
an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
sorry you lose this round
Wow, a little overly literal aren’t we….?
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
hunting ??
Haha, you must have found the cave man dictionary? They don’t run them down and beat them with sticks any more.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
you must have found the cave man dictionary?
Awesome. This is going to be new all-purpose put-down. I may have to keep it in my back pocket for the next political showdown with Naticus…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 13, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
You think cave man jokes are funny?
Tim Duncan disagrees.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 13, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
See, that's what we need in the paint
with a big stone hammer tucked in his waistband
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Can Chris Kaveman do it too?
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Apr 14, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I may have to keep it in my back pocket for the next political showdown with Naticus…
Haha, he probably knows it by heart?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
bulking up helped his game
His wife is apparently more athletic though?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 13, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Tell me, what do we need more?
We need the best player.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Low Work Ethic?
Pretty sure thats opposite of what his coaches say. And that he’s a quick learner. Example A) Free throw shooting
How can you compare Cousins, a freshman, to someone who was an established senior like Blair?
Favors isn’t “another PF” because he can play center. If anyone is the safer pick between the two, it’s Favors. He doesn’t have the immaturity knocks or the off-court warning signs. They both have a high ceiling, but I think the safer pick is Favors because his weaknesses are related to his inexperience compared to Cousins whose weaknesses are focus, basketball IQ, maturity and the way he has acted in the past on the court. He has other weaknesses, too, like every other player; however, those can probably be worked on more than those I mentioned.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
How can you say Favors is the safer pick when Cousins has put up better numbers all the way around? Favors is another project like AR. Do we really need another project or somebody that can contriute instantly. Favors has not shown any postgame whatsoever.
How can you say Favors is the safer pick when Cousins has put up better numbers all the way around?
Cousins didn’t put up better numbers “all the way around” considering how Favors averaged more blocks, shot a higher percentage and committed 0.6 less fouls in more 4.0 minutes of playing time. (The lack of minutes for Cousins is another huge problem for me. I don’t know how he can handle big minutes in the NBA.)
Cousins averaged more points because he played for Kentucky and Favors played for Georgia Tech. I’m tired of explaining this to people. I acknowledge Cousins averaged more rebounds than Favors. Favors played with another NBA big man in Gani Lawal and a pretty good big man in Zach Peacock, so that’s understandable that Favors only averaged 8.4 rebounds. I am not doubting Cousins’ ability to rebound to begin with.
Favors has not shown any postgame whatsoever.
He did show it, but he didn’t get it to show it enough. Georgia Tech’s guards were pretty untalented and stupid. Also, again, Georgia Tech wasn’t on television like Kentucky.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
You talk as if Cousins didnt play with another Big man aswell. If im correct Patrick Patterson will be drafted before Gani Lawal will in the upcoming draft. Cousins is a player who cannot be guarded one on one by anybody in college. The same cannot be said for Favors in fact i havent seen one game where teams doubled him the way they did Cousins. Like i said before Favors has done nothing in college to put him in a position to be a lottery pick. All his hype comes from High school where scouts predicted he would be a top 5 pick if he could have come out last year.
Cousins is a player who cannot be guarded one on one by anybody in college.
You would be saying the same thing about Favors if they had swapped teams.
[…] i havent seen one game where teams doubled him the way they did Cousins.
Tell Georgia Tech to pass him the ball, then. At least Kentucky had the competence to give Cousins the ball.
All his hype comes from High school where scouts predicted he would be a top 5 pick if he could have come out last year.
Actually, it comes from skill. You don’t draft guys based on college production solely. Stop talking like Favors is some scrub with no post game and how he didn’t average enough points per game for you.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I've watched both plenty of times.
I don’t disagree that Favors might’ve put up better numbers with Kentucky instead of GT. But let me just say that Cousins is the better post player. Favors got a lot of his points off rebounds and dunks. He could create for himself. But it was inconsistent. Not his fault that the guards like to shoot first. I just think Cousins has the better offensive game. Favors, likely the better defensive game. That’s how it was in HS as well.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Favors has not shown any postgame whatsoever.
Don’t know about “any post game whatsoever.” He does have a hook with both hands. Rougly 0:40 & 1:00 ish. Saw him shoot both vs Maryland on 3/12. Left is still unpolished, but not as mechanical as in the clip.
Favors is another project like AR.Not sure this is really accurate either. Agree, they are both projects, but AR is a project both in terms of skill & in terms of having an NBA body (he came in at 6’10.25" in shoes & 197 lbs. Even with the 1 inch & 20 lb gain, he still only weighs 217 lbs.; & some of the weight gain was due to growing an inch taller). Meanwhile, Favors is listed at 6’10" & 246 on Tech’s media guide. Lawal is listed at 6’9" & 234 in the same guide. Lawal measured at 6’9" in shoes & 229 at the combine. So Favors probably has close to 30 lbs on Randolph even if you assume Favors hasn’t gained a single lb since the start of last season.
Frankly, he looked less explosive than anything in that game except when he had a running start.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
For some reason Favors reminds me of Jermaine O’Neal who ended up being a very good player for some years but it took years for it to happen. I see Cousins making a immediate impact like Dwight Howard did.
I could say that Favors reminds me of Kevin Garnett and Cousins reminds me of Eddy Curry, but it doesn’t mean anything.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
You can say that but i think Garnett would have been much more productive in College as a freshman than Favors was. And I think Curry would have been less productive in college than Cousins was. The fact of the matter is people say John Wall is the reason Cousins was so productive but thats like giving Derek Fisher and Scott Skiles credit for Shaq being so dominant earlier in his career. Most of Cousins points came from the posting guys up aswell as garbage buckets. Its not like Wall and Favors was Payton and Kemp. He wasnt throwing alley’s to Cousins. Nor was he getting him easy baskets.
Well, I didn’t say Wall made Cousins into anything so I don’t really care.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
There is merit to ones production and team (poor team mates) as described in Favors draft express summary but let’s not over do it.
I think most agree that Cousins has more Skill today than Favors. That Cousin is far ahead of Favors in basketball development. The discussion may be less extreme had Favors played with a great point guard but Cousins clearly is ahead of Favors in most aspects of the game.
I think most agree that Cousins has more Skill today than Favors.
I don’t think most say that.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Most people don’t think Cousins is more skilled than Favors. I think it’s leaning toward Cousins, but it’s not a big majority by any means.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you talking about who the GSoM community want’s to draft or are you talking about who currently possess more skill on the basketball court.
I’m saying cousins has more post moves, is a better passer and a better rebounder. Or as i said before, " i think most agree that Cousins has more Skill today than Favors".
Do you want to tell me how favors has better post moves, jumpers? Or do you want to highlight he’s defensive ability?
We’re talking about skills, of course. Did you misread my comment?
I’m saying cousins has more post moves, is a better passer and a better rebounder. Or as i said before, " i think most agree that Cousins has more Skill today than Favors".
You calling out three strengths doesn’t mean that most people agree that Cousins is more skilled than Favors.
Or do you want to highlight he’s defensive ability?
Yeah, you’re right. Defense isn’t important.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
That wasn’t even the argument. Anyway, no one really needs to elaborate too much on skills because anyone can look it up on the Internet. I don’t feel like wasting my time. Read ‘em for yourself, but it’s not like it’ll matter.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
actually that was your arguement. You quoted me, and disagreed that Cousins has more skill than Favors. I’ve read the write ups. watched the games, and the videos, and most draft related post here. Seems to me that MOST aka almost all agree that Cousins has currently possess more basketball skill. If you don’t want to waste your time explaining your position than you don’t need to reply at all. I’m not trying to be a prick i like favors too i just think he’s vastly behind Cousins in basketball development, comes across as dim wit in interviews and is mostly athleticism and potential at this point.
I regularly here people support favors on this site without backing it up. I can make a few arguents in his defense too but it’s not enough to make me desire him over cousins.
You quoted me, and disagreed that Cousins has more skill than Favors.
No, I just disagreed that most people think that Cousins is clearly more talented Favors. For example, “most people think Stephen Curry is the best rookie in the NBA.” That’s not true as most people don’t think that. Some think that, but not “most” people. Do you understand me now?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
you are confusing me with your terms. in this case you used the word ‘talent’. I am referring to Skill. Depending on the person Talent can often mean athletism.
Read the Draft express etc, yourself. Consider NBA draft.net wher Cousins is rated higher in the “nba ready” category. in other write ups terms like Polished, go to moves, skill set, etc are used to descibe each player.
How many games have you watched yourself? you are the first person i’ve heard disagree that right now Favors has more basketball skill. I’m intrigued. would appreciate your persepective and am tiried of hearing you dodge the question.
you are the first person i’ve heard disagree that right now Favors has more basketball skill.
That’s not what I said! Most people don’t think Cousins is more skilled than Favors. Some do say so, but not “most” people. That was my original point.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
dude, you're wrong
get over it
Cousins > Favors when it comes to skills
It just takes watching them once to see that.
Cousins > Favors when it comes to skills
This isn’t even the argument, though. Balance couldn’t see that, so jumping into this late means that you probably don’t understand it yourself.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
hard to tell exactly what your arguing
but I think you value Favor’s presumed weaknesses over Cousins’.
You seem to have the opinion that because according to DraftExpress, Favors has less perceived “off court” issues, that he’s the safer pick.
Why do you consider that to be “safer”, as opposed to the player with the better skill set?
hard to tell exactly what your arguing
That’s because you jumped in out of nowhere in a conversation that didn’t really include you. I’m tired of explaining, but I’ll do it once more. He said that most people think Cousins is more skilled than Favors and that’s not necessarily true. Some people think Favors is more skilled and some people think Cousins is more skilled. Maybe some people think Cousins is more skilled, but it’s not “most” people. For example, Chad Ford has Favors high on his draft board and NBADraft.net has Favors going two picks before Cousins right now. So, again, I don’t think most people think Cousins is more skilled than Favors. A slight majority might tilt toward Cousins, but it’s not most people.
You seem to have the opinion that because according to DraftExpress, Favors has less perceived "off court" issues, that he’s the safer pick.
Yeah, they’re just the only ones who think that. They got bored on a Saturday night and made up a few things.
Why do you consider that to be "safer", as opposed to the player with the better skill set?
They’re both very skilled so the “non-skill” red flags concerning Cousins lead me to believe Favors is the safer pick.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 12, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions
you are some peace of work. So you think the draft board is a measure of skill? No, read the write-ups that explain each player if you haven’t watched them both with your own eyes.
From Draft express
Favors:
Weakness:
Lacks significant offensive polish, Turnover prone, lacks the ability to create his own shot, unproven, advanced post moves….“he’s a fairly raw player who is still a long ways away from being a finished product, and will have to improve considerably in certain areas.”
He’s not ranked above Cousin’s because of Skill, it’s because of athletic ability and potential. In fact my original statement was understated. EVERYONE but you agrees that cousins currently has more skill than Favors. I didn’t want to go there and have to really call you out but you are being ridiculous. I was sincerely trying to find sommething i didn’t know about Favors. I want to like the guy. I really do. Every time i watched his games i thought….come on dude…do something awesome. but, he just kinda blended in.
Look he might be the better prospect, i don’t know. No one does and time will tell. For me i like Cousins. All things point to him being very effect in the NBA while we don’t even know if Favors will be half way decent. He had a poor freshman year. To quote draft express one last time, “And while he’s certainly shown plenty of glimpses of his outstanding potential, it’s tough not to be slightly disappointed in the production he’s achieved thus far—relative to other members of his class at least.”
He’s not ranked above Cousin’s because of Skill, it’s because of athletic ability and potential.
We don’t know that. You just like to think that because Cousins is your boy.
For me i like Cousins.
You still don’t understand that your opinion has nothing to do with this, do you?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 13, 2010 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions
ditto what Balance said
you don’t even understand what you’re arguing, and then you accuse people of not understanding you.
We get what you’re saying better than you do.
We get what you’re saying better than you do.
What am I trying to say, then? I know what I am trying to say. It’s not my fault you can’t comprehend English.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 13, 2010 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks. I didn’t want to waste my time any further.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 13, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Why do you consider that to be "safer", as opposed to the player with the better skill set?
Haha, You know? It’s the old Dunleavey over Amare line of reasoning.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 12, 2010 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
a SF who can shootwellok
I never understood how Dunleavy got credit for being a good shooter. He shot 37% in college from the old college 3pt line, and if you watched Duke at all, you know every single one of those shots was an open set shot. He’s shot 35.6% from 3 in his NBA career. Dunleavy really isn’t much of a shooter, heck, the fact that the’s white probably has as much to do with the perception of his shooting ability as his actual shooting ability…..
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
He had a “good looking release”?
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
The “good looking release” occurred when we traded his sorry ass.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 13, 2010 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
it doesn’t mean anything.
It does reflect the prevailing sentiment that Cousins is more polished & therefore probably more ready to contribute immediately than Favors is.
Really have no problem with fans feeling that way & wanting the more immediate impact.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
to someone who was an established senior like Blair?
Unless draftexpress is mistaken, Blair came out as a Sophomore.
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s my bad.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe you meant Senior citizen knees?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Cousins is a safer pick than Favors IMO
Look at how Dejuan Blair turned out.
QED
There will be no extra point!
*
Just to be clear (as jae says, sarcasm doesn’t always come through on the intenets), I should probably append a
;-P
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
This whole topic is assuming we get the 3rd pick. If we get the 4th pick we’ll end up with Favors because i do think Cousins will be drafted before Favors. At least the next 3 teams we play are playoff contenders and are playing for something so hopefully we’ll lose all 3 and really give ourselves a chance at a top 4 pick.
yeah, agreed
I’m so glad we lost to Clippers and Wizards. I was expecting us to beat both of them and maybe even win another game and end up with the 5th or 6th worst record.
by freerandolph on Apr 11, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Never in my wildest dreams
did I think we would get the record, and keep 3rd place.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 11, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree, Cousins is who I want most
Followed by Turner (only if we trade Monta, because having Turner, Monta and Curry on the floor together would not end well). This team, if Cousins fills out his potential, and Randolph comes anywhere close to his (having a big man like Cousins would open up space for Randolph and help him reach his potentia), looks like it’d be competitive for years. A strong starting line up, as well as a deep bench filled with players who can excel in certain roles.
Cousins / Turriaf
Randolph / Wright
Magette / Morrow
Ellis / Azubuike / Williams
Curry / Watson
My Warriors lineup
Curry/Williams/Watson
Ellis/Morrow/Williams
Maggette/Abazuike/Gordon Hayward or Kyle Singler/Toliver
Beans/Cousins/Turiaf
Wright/Randolf/Cousins
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 12:50 PM PDT reply actions
And we just pull Hayward/ Singler
out of our butts?
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 11, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
There’s a small chance one would fall to us in the second round.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Singler and Hayward could go 2nd round rather than your butt.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
How about Stern's butt?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
the main problem with
Cousins is conditioning. I just hope he can go 30 minutes a night without getting dead tired.
Them Mark "24 Hour Fitness" Mastrov
should buy the team
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 11, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
*Then
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Apr 11, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Please...
keep dreaming…first off he can only manage to hold up TWENTY minutes a game…in COLLEGE…that’s maybe 15 minutes in the NBA a night…what makes you think he can play 30 mpg? He’s not athletic at all, Favors is much better.
first off he can only manage to hold up TWENTY minutes a game…in COLLEGE…
In fairness, Cousin’s 23.5 mpg has more to do with foul problems & Favors averages a whopping 4 minutes more per game (27.5).
This is not a black & white situation. It’s a classic production vs potential model. Both have their pluses & minuses, that’s why there is no consensus either way & neither Favors nor Cousins is likely to be picked before Turner or Wall by most teams (though there probably are teams that would given the value of size).
by homer simpson on Apr 11, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is not a black & white situation.
QFT.
I trust Nellie and the rest of the crew to do their due diligence — work the kids out, watch and re-watch the game tapes, crunch the numbers, interview them, etc. — and make an informed decision. Or … you know, just pick whichever the two happens to fall to us. Or, if neither falls to us, pick neither.
This whole polemical “I don’t know much about this, but I’m gonna pick a side and argue it till I’m blue in the face” game … gets old.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
And what the hell does QED mean?
I’m not up to date.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Haha, it’s not exactly newfangled…
Q.E.D. is an acronym of the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, which means “that which was to be demonstrated.” The phrase is traditionally placed in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument
I just thought the phrase “look at how Dejuan Blair turned out” was a hilariously unmathematical and illogical “argument” for picking Cousins over Favors.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
If it's latin it must be old!
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Care to spell out QFT
;-)
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 13, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
This is not a black & white situation. It’s a classic production vs potential model.
I’ll be jumping in the streets if we land #3. Then some other team can draft Turner and we’ll take the rewards. Cousins is #1 for me. Favors is #2.
Everyone’s picking hairs to what they like and what they see. Next year I think I’m not going to read any NBADraft.Net or DraftExpress before College ball starts. I think that gives people some biases, and what they see on the court already compromises how they’ll interpret the results. I mean how else can two different people see the same thing and come away with two completely different takes?
Cousins was better in HS, better in college. It is exactly what you say it is. Production vs. Potential.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
people just see things different and that’s why we are here. i start watching guys at the mcdonalds game and occasionlly a hs game i.e. lebron’s.
Favors had a great mcD’s game. I hardly new cousins. Maybe it was all the hype but i was allways under impressed with Favors the same way i was under impressed with DeRozen. Never took over a game. Just kinda blended in and put up decent numbers. yawn.
maybe they both take their elite athleticism to a skill level and put together a highlight vid like Johnson or maybe they end up like Tyrus Thomas. Time will tell but, what time has told me this year is that Cousins and Johnson Dominated the college level last year and are ready for the NBA.
+1 Balance. I also like to pick a top hs prospect to follow and start watching the McD games and others etc./research.
Last year I started this to check out Wall and was blown away by Cousins. He had less weight on him and blew into to the basket from the high post and was quite dominating and had me considering what it would be like for the W’s to have a guy like that but figured…ah he is probably just a “man among hs boys” plus heard something about attitude etc. and thought that he probably would just not be that dominating at the next level. Then started watching the UK gms right off etc. and he seemed to doing the same thing as a freshman At UK and was amazed that as good as Wall and Bledsoe and Patterson are that many of their wins would not have happened without Cousins under the basket…..also Calipari forced Cousins to change his game to a low post only play and I thought that was pretty impessive and “coachable” for a big man that young to not only handle the change but with that kind of success as well. He actually played like a Boozer type in HS and even has a mid range shot, with less body weight. I have not seen any evidence of a future “bust” with this guy.
Also we can talk a lot about athletism but this guy has the “talent”, in my mind as much as Turner related to the position that he will be playing. Compare Cousins as a frosh to Turner as a frosh for instance. I feel that he is the best “talent” pick at #2. Problem is that he may not be available at the 3rd or 4rth pick. Hopefully the Thabeet fiasco will influence the wolves and Wizards.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 12, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Unfortunately i don’t think their will be a Thubust effect on this draft. There’s regularly a bust in the nba lottery. Thabeet was the easiest one to pick i’ve ever seen. Slow and skinny is not a good combo in the NBA and typically to impove either decreases the other. I wish him the best of luck.
in the top 5 there seems to be flags for every player and a nice mix of position. PG,SG, SF, PF & C in my top 5. For the most part i’ll bet teams draft on need.
-hoping for a top 3 pick.
We dont need or necessarily need to burn our bigs at 30 min a night.
Anyway while in early development 30 min doesnt make sense.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Just had an "epiphany"! We need a young future superstar, right?
Well since there is little chance of drafting or trading for one lets draft the “big C” and combine him with our “little C” and together they become our young superstar combo! The “two C’s”/BiggyC+LittleC. Together the have BBall IQ/court vision/great passing/great intangibles/size/low post offence and positional defense/rebounding/muscle and cute to boot ! etc. Instead of CP4 the Warriors have the 2C’s. Yes folks remember that you heard here first!
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 3:56 PM PDT reply actions
The "two C’s"/BiggyC+LittleC.
kinda like Biggie and Tupac,? would firearms be involved??
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Double D's.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
D-wight and D-wyane?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 11, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have Double D's.
Haha, maybe get implants?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
No Skep lets leave Arenas out of this ha!
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 11, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Gil would add some spice to this team
I’m kinda bored with our crew sans Jax?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 11, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Ewww
That comment about how Cousins reminds them of Eddy Curry… that is just scary if that ever comes true. I mean, Cousins jumps at least and tries to block shots so no way he can become like Eddy, hopefully.
However this draft turns out, I’m just sooo glad we didn’t end up with Jordan Hill last off season. I admit to kinda having a man crush on him. He would’ve been the obvious pick but I’m glad Larry Riley and Nellie knew better and took a “tweener” in Curry. I actually trust the guys in charge to make the best choice. Yeah, I said it.
by ChronicMasticator on Apr 11, 2010 5:48 PM PDT reply actions
I don’t know if Hill was the obvious pick because we needed a point guard.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Apr 11, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
This past off season, Monta was considered the point guard because he handles the ball so often. Everybody was clamoring for the Warriors to get bigger for rebounding purposes. Jordan is a 6’10’’ athletic forward who would’ve fit in perfectly in Nellie’s system. Steph wasn’t the clear choice.
by ChronicMasticator on Apr 11, 2010 10:45 PM PDT reply actions
I don’t think that’s entirely inaccurate – I mean, nobody was coming out and saying “Monta is definitely a PG”, but plenty of people were at least curious if maybe he could be one. I don’t think we knew for sure before the season if he could. Personally, I still think if he ever turned into a PG quality ballhandler (as opposed to his PF ballhandling skills he currently has) he could, with some time, be a Tony Parker-like player….but yeah, no reason to try that route now.
by Missing Barry on Apr 12, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting Jason King article on Cousins for those who have not seen it.
Has some puff but pretty indepth with the history . Make of it what you will. It may have been posted before. I had read before but came across again on the Wolves Cannis Hoopis fan blog. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-cousins031610
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 12, 2010 2:03 PM PDT reply actions
I think that because of Hasheem Thabeet's situation...
…bigman stock has been in decline this draft class. There are so many other centers who have first round talent and build but will fall into the second round because of the (bust?) of Thabeet after being drafted 2nd. There are some great guys we could go after in the second for size and defense at the 5 before going after Cousins with our big pick and violating the old axiom of ’don’t draft for need’. He’s just got too many red flags that keep popping up. Check out Solomon Alabi from FSU, or Jerome Jordan from Tulsa (both 7ft+ and huge btw) falling deep into the 2nd. If we get a shot at Wall, Turner, Johnson, or Favors, we take one of them and try pick up a good big in the second round. If we get the 5 pick, trade it with Monta and Corey for something big, rather than risk busting on Demarcus. IMHO.
Cut.
I think that because of Hasheem Thabeet’s situation…bigman stock has been in decline this draft class.
That doesn’t make any shred of sense. Tons of players boom and bust, but you cannot apply one specific example to the next crop of players. It’s a shallow and vague comparison if you ask me and doesn’t really explain anything.
There are so many other centers who have first round talent and build but will fall into the second round because of the (bust?) of Thabeet after being drafted 2nd.
Thabeet won’t have anything to do with guys rising or falling.
There are some great guys we could go after in the second for size and defense at the 5 before going after Cousins with our big pick and violating the old axiom of ’don’t draft for need’.
It’s also convenient when he has the highest production + potential in the entire draft. He rivals that of Wall. Cousins just has more questions surrounding him. This is not a Todd Fuller type of pick. This guy has actual talent and it actually translated into wins for his team. Unlike Alabi, Whiteside, Davis, Jordan…
Check out Solomon Alabi from FSU, or Jerome Jordan from Tulsa (both 7ft+ and huge btw) falling deep into the 2nd.
Bigmen drafted in the 2nd round usually end up being a huge pile of nothing. If Alabi or Jordan end up in the 2nd, that would raise huge question marks for me as to why they fell. Team’s usually gobble up competent bigmen right away. Plus the guys you mentioned played in a weak conference, or are still raw. As is the case of Alabi. Cousins is much younger than both, plus out produced them. You won’t find many people suggesting their potential outdoes Cousins’ either.
If we get a shot at Wall, Turner, Johnson, or Favors, we take one of them and try pick up a good big in the second round.
I’ll give you Wall, but Turner and Favors are not far and away better players than Cousins is. In fact I’d argue that Cousins has more potential than Turner, and is already better and ready to produce at an NBA level than Favors.
If we get the 5 pick, trade it with Monta and Corey for something big, rather than risk busting on Demarcus.
At the 5th pick we won’t have the fortune of selecting Cousins. He will definitely be gone by then. Book it.
IMHO.
Well, that much we know.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Honestly,
I’m almost sold on this idea. In theory he’s the perfect fit for this team, but I can’t help but notice all the red flags. Mainly Laziness and bipolarity. I read read the article Fairfax posted, and sure it’s a touching story, but none the less he slightly reminds me of Derrick Coleman. If he can put the all the work in then I’m all for it, but he’s about to become rich and comfortable, and I worry what effect that will have on his work ethic. Again, IMHO.
Cut.
by Butterknuckles on Apr 13, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
The Cousins vs. Favors debate
Seems to me to be a lot like Evans vs. Curry this year. Evans is a beast, and Curry is incredibly skilled. In Cousins vs. Favors, Favors is more of a beast, and Cousins is incredibly skilled. To me, it’s a matter of preference. I like my guards skilled and my bigs beastly. Favors is my guy.
Thank you, Chris Cohan, for finally doing the right thing.
Ya gotta be joking with that convoluted comparison there guy?
You are saying that Favors is “beastly” compared to Cousins? If we were to to follow your logic then you are agreeing with me that Cousins is the “skilled beast” …in terms of skills and "beast quotient "he has somewhat more than Favours. You are the first for sure to compare Cousins with Curry as similiar on the “beastly meter” ha!
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 13, 2010 4:32 PM PDT reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300510120
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300730150
I was actually surprised going through his game log, he only had two 20 point games all season long, though at least they were both against real competition.
by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2010 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
could be even worse
It might end up being Johnson vs. Aminu.
Anyway, we did pretty well at 10 last year.
We were #7 last year.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Apr 14, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup ,its looking like Johnson vs. Aminu.
The fans at SacTown seem to favour Favours so if management agrees Cousins may be in play for us but who knows but the lotto balls.
by Only In Fairfax on Apr 15, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
The fans at SacTown seem to favour Favours so if management agrees Cousins may be in play for us
Haha, don’t had me another straw to grasp, I’m resigned to the curse now.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 15, 2010 11:18 AM PDT reply actions
David Thorpe on Favors v Cousins
Who would you prefer to take in the draft…Favors or Cousins?
It’s not close. Favors, though Cousins is the superior talent.
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