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Why do we have an uneducated media educating fans on basketball?

The propeganda of sports media is hitting a new level. When constant statistical metrics are being created, and shown to be effective, why are they put into the dust by the main distributors of information? This information is much more informative and insightful than Jalen Rose or Marc Jackson screaming into a micro-phone with a New York accent talking jiberrish such as , " Kobe Bryant will go down as the greatest player to ever play the game" or " Kobe Bryant is the best player we have in this league!".

When will someone with the money and time stand up and shove it all in their face?

Star-divide

If you want to provide honest analysis of a subject, provide the listeners with the facts and let them make opinions based off of this. You don't come up with thesis' that are merely hyperbole and unarguable, and shove this down their throat. Well, you can, but that is merely propeganda. And mind you, sports are not some government policy that they want you to approve. It is an aesthletically pleasing hobby for most of us.

Today, it was confirmed Tyreke Evans will win Rookie of the Year. Who voted for this award? The media. We all know the statistical evaluations show Curry is helping his team win more than Evans. Evans (once again) will win the award because he scores more points per game. Again, this is not too valuable when it comes to winning games, and being the 'best' player. Curry was the more efficient scorer, better passer, rebounder, and had a better adjusted +/- .

Curry is another 'victim' to sports media's desire to ignore all relevant statistical measures of excellence, yet not ignore the least important one- PPG.

Oh, hey look... Jamal Crawford. He won 6th man of the year. He scored alot on good efficiency. But all evidence shows, he was still crap at rebounding, defense, and winning- more important than your good 'ol PPG.

I hope more people like Dave Berri land spots on ESPN in the future so they can tell the people the truth.

Poll
Does Sport Media need to change for the better?
Yes
87 votes
No
40 votes

127 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Crawford was probably the best scoring 6th man this year, but he’s really not that good at anything else besides handles. He’s one of the worst rebounding guards in the NBA and plays pretty bad defense. I think he’s solid, but this season was nothing more than what he’s done his whole career. The only thing that’s different about this year compared to his past years is that he’s coming off the bench and playing starters minutes.

by duballers23 on Apr 27, 2010 9:04 PM PDT reply actions  

Take into consideration the fans vote the Allstars in

And look what we got this year. The media will be the media, let them be.

"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis

by ejdacanay on Apr 27, 2010 9:12 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, the fan is not too smart either because they are being educated by the media.

Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 27, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why do we have an uneducated media educating fans on basketball [insert topic here]?

In general, it doesn’t seem to me people care about the quality of analysis and whether it holds up to careful examination. I guess it’s just not how we’re wired? Maybe it’s a cultural issue? I don’t know, but when was the last time the media went for quality, fact based analysis in anything?

by Missing Barry on Apr 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT reply actions  

(Not to mention most “journalists” are educated in journalism, as opposed to the topics they cover, though at least you can say the NBA analysts like Jalen Rose have the basketball experience to theoretically know what they’re talking about)

by Missing Barry on Apr 27, 2010 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

though at least you can say the NBA analysts like Jalen Rose have the basketball experience to theoretically know what they’re talking about

Haha. True.

Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 27, 2010 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

But still I bet Rose and Jackson couldn't give a rats ass about comprehensive stats.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Apr 28, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s why I said “theoretically”….wasn’t trying to say it’s the reality at all.

by Missing Barry on Apr 29, 2010 5:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is quite a blanket statement seemingly based on only a few select media members you have hand-picked.

No, I don’t think sports media needs to change for the better. We fans, the audience, have the freedom to choose what to read, hear, see, and interpret the way we want. There are a lot of quality media members who know what they’re talking about, but they are neither right or wrong. They are simply opining to the best of their ability. There are a lot of media members who are all show and no go, but they are neither right or wrong. They are simply opining to the best of their ability.

Just because Stephen Curry didn’t win the ROY award, doesn’t mean we should blame the media. It doesn’t mean Stephen Curry had a worse year nor does it mean Evans had a better year. It’s just an consensus opinion of a select few. It’s not going to make or break their careers. But if we are going to blame someone, maybe we should blame the inept Warrior front office who was unable to construct a roster that would win more games, which might have resulted in a few more votes for Curry.

Getting upset about this is like getting upset that water makes you wet or the sun makes you hot.

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Apr 27, 2010 10:16 PM PDT reply actions  

I was just using the ROY race as an example of the media.

Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 27, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

We have the freedom to choose a better media but many of us are so ignorant and poorly informed… at least in part because of the media.

go rowand

by lincypoo i wuv u on May 10, 2010 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is an aesthletically pleasing hobby for most of us.

 Then don’t complicate it with the heavy stuff? Most fans just want to watch a fun player and have a good time out . The players are the game, not the minutia of the percentages. The one big number that matters is the score at the end then we go home and get on with life.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 27, 2010 11:22 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Great article, but

I’m not sure its obvious that Steph deserves the ROY over Tyreke.

Other than that I agree with everything you’ve said. I would even go so far as to say that the dependence on the mass media for information concerning sports is just as false/wrong with football and baseball.

by won't stop on Apr 28, 2010 1:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Media fell for the 20-5-5 stuff.

Kings created a stat cut-off, a catchy one at that. Look everybody, 20-5-5! Only Lebron, Oscar, MJ and now RekeRoy accomplished that!

Let’s ignore that Lebron, Oscar, MJ all averaged more pts, more rebs, more asts than Evans. It’s so silly. Evans isn’t IN the same league as those guys, he’s on the OUTSIDE of it just like Curry, just like everyone else.

I can create a stat cut-off too. Only two rookies have EVER averaged 17.5+ pts, 5.9 asts, 4.5 rebs, and 1.9 stls… Magic Johnson and Steph Curry.

BTW, Curry averaged 20/6/5 from Dec 12th on. Curry outplayed Evans the final 59 games of the year.. Curry outplayed Evans for over 70% of the season. I flat out disagree with anyone who says Evans had the better year. The difference between the final stats is what? 0.8 rpg and 2.6 ppg? Curry beat Evans at every other stat along with better %‘s across the board. Yeah, whatever. I’ll admit Kings PR kicked the Ws PR butt, but Curry was the better player.

by Bob on Apr 28, 2010 3:58 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Dude. I see you conveniently neglected to mention that Evans was quintuple-teamed every game by two Bill Russells, two Scottie Pippens, and Doctor Octopus, whereas opposing defenses were explicitly forbidden by league rules to come within eight yards of Curry.

Plus, Evans has been favorably compared to LeBron James, where Curry has been unfavorably compared, by Warriors fans no less, to the Stanford girls basketball team.

Plus, whatever their birth certificates might say, Evans is actually only 9 years old, where Curry is 34.

This really shouldn’t even be a debate.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 28, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Steph Curry – BEST 4 months averages (I excluded the first “month” because they both only played 2 and 3 games respectively)
21.7ppg 5.1rb 7.0ast 2.6to 2.4stl .33blk 46.9fg%
Those are great numbers.

Tyreke’s Evans – WORST 4 months averages
19.0ppg 5.0rbs 5.2ast 3.3to 1.6stl .45blk 44.2fg%
Also pretty nice. Definitely not as wonderful.

I chose 4 months to be the averages because Curry’s first two months of play are off limits. It’s simply unfair to include those. Now when I was calculating these, I chose the best stat out of the best 4 months. For example, for PPG, I chose Curry’s PPG from the top 4 months (Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr) and for RBS I chose Dec, Jan, Feb and Apr. Anyway Its basically the best possible 4 month average of his stats. For Tyreke, I chose the worst possible. (You don’t want me to show you Curry’s worst, trust me)

Anyway, this is why Curry should have won. These stats say it all.

by caseycheesecake on May 7, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now, I think Curry should have won because his entire season was ever so slightly better than Tyreke’s…..but I’m really chiming in to just say that cherry picking your samples and excluding data is generally a really bad thing to do….

by Missing Barry on May 8, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sooo

I SHOULDN’T just pick out the best possible way to show somebody and compare it to the worst of the other?

by caseycheesecake on May 8, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, you shouldn’t. Cherrypicking is lame, even if your goal is (pretty transparently) to show the opposite of what you’re ostensibly showing.

For the record, the “best possible way” to show Curry would include giving him credit for being one of the best 3 pt shooters in the league, rather than simply listing his “fg%.”

Try harder next time?

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on May 8, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would actually work against him. And I wasn’t trying to show that, even though he shot the 3 so well, he couldn’t score as much.

I think I cherrypicked the best/worst stats I possibly could. Now accept me!

by caseycheesecake on May 13, 2010 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Evans has been favorably compared to LeBron James, where Curry has been unfavorably compared, by Warriors fans no less, to the Stanford girls basketball team.

 Hey that was a favorable comparison, those girls can really pass. If you like finesse basketball they are more your ticket than the NBA.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 28, 2010 10:56 AM PDT reply actions  

I agree with the subject

The fawning over Kobe, the Crawford 6th man story.Sjax leads the Bobcats to a playoff. But Curry again, I think this roy story should be laid to rest. I think the sports media in general wanted Curry to take it, but in the end couldn’t justify. it. If the season ended in another month, Curry might have taken it.
 The sports fan gets the Budweiser quality of sports media it deserves. They don’t want to think too much about it. PPG, RPG, maybe FG%. is fine with them.. The media spin: The Warriors trade away players ( Jackson, Crawford, Pietrus, JR ) and they magically transform into first rate NBA players. What more need be said?

by War Years Legacy on Apr 28, 2010 11:43 AM PDT reply actions  

. We all know the statistical evaluations show Curry is helping his team win more than Evans.

Tyrekes win share- 5.4
Currys win share- 4.6

by tafkasam on Apr 28, 2010 4:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Tyrekes win share- 5.4 Currys win share- 4.6

 Haha, they are both negative? Maybe Blair shoulda won ROY after all?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 28, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

ha ha

I forgot space… Tyreke- 5.4, Curry- 4.6

by tafkasam on Apr 28, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not concerned over sports media

as I am mainstream American media. But what can we expect from a sector that is profit driven.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Apr 28, 2010 4:45 PM PDT reply actions  

I completely agree

Not only are the sports media to blame for the misinformation, but I believe that some teams actually account for PPG and reputation more than other statistics that may be more important. You only get a limited number of shots in a basketball game and I think people forget that. Anyone who says that Kobe Bryant is best player of all time or even this generation is insane. He is a great player no doubt, but many other players have been much better over the last decade and especially all time.

by brutusbrutus on Apr 28, 2010 8:51 PM PDT reply actions  

propaganda.

3 guys went 20-5-5 this year. 1 will win the MVP, 1 will finish 3rd or 4th in the MVP race, 1 won ROY. Steph wasn’t any of those guys. you can slice the stats to the 6th level but that’s the reality. Evans was 1 of 3 guys this year and 4 guys in the history of rookies. steph didn’t do it.

the folks in the media are not paid to be statisticians. they are paid to write articles, talk on tv or radio, and entertain the fans. 99% of the fans out there don’t operation on the 6th level of statistical analysis – the operate on level 1 or 2 and that is what the media provides. going to deeper on a broad media basis is going to push more fans away from sports than closer to sports imo.

people like that in baseball because the games are so unbearably slow – it is a time filler. same with football, you only have games once a week so the stats fill up the off days. but with basketball you have action to watch every other day and too much stats are going to get in the way.

by Madzillagd on Apr 29, 2010 9:24 AM PDT reply actions  

propaganda.

  Excellent post……….addition sign , first odd number

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 29, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stephen Jackson averaged 20-6-5 here at GS

so that benchmark doesn’t really impress me, at all.

by Bob on Apr 29, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

There’s nothing inherently honest or real about the “first level of statistical analysis,” as you term it. Worshipping context-less numbers like PPG and groupings of round base-5 numbers is no simpler, clearer, or more relevant than looking at the actual results; it’s just stupider.

Indeed, ASTGs (arbitrary statistical threshold groupings) are the essence of the “statistical slicing” you’re disparaging. They’re nonsensical and stupid. That the mainstream media uses them doesn’t make them any less nonsensical or stupid. People, even hoops fans, deserve to be enlightened, not confused and misled.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 29, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

i think you missed my point.

i never said anything about the first level being honest or real – i also never said anything negative about a deeper dive of the stats. the point was that the media and most fans don’t operate at that deeper level and i don’t think you can disparage the fans nor the media for not doing so. the media is paid to entertain and to drive traffic to their papers, shows, sites, etc.

by Madzillagd on Apr 30, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

i don’t think you can disparage the fans nor the media for not doing so.

Haha. Watch me!

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 30, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

3 guys got 17 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists and managed a TS% over .565. One is going to be the MVP, one is the best point guard in the game on his way to being one of the best of all time, one finished second in the ROY race. Curry was one of three guys this year and one of four guys ever (the other three including 3 of the top 10 players ever) and Evans didn’t do it. That’s reality as well.

And much as Evans’ “20-5-5” was a far, far less impressive showing than the rookies before him and of the other guys who did it this year, so too did Curry’s 17etc not look nearly as good as Magic’s, MJ’s, or Oscar’s. The arbitrary cutoff that won the day was a multiple of 20. By the advanced metrics, they were very, very close in total productivity for the season, swaying one way or the other depending on the metric of favor and some rather small assumptions about them. The vote was by no means a landslide either. A reasonably large number of the voters considered Curry to have a better year.

by jae on Apr 29, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Curry was one of three guys this year and one of four guys ever (the other three including 3 of the top 10 players ever) and Evans didn’t do it. That’s reality as well.

  If three guys did it this year and four guys have ever done it that only leaves one guy who did it previously? If more than one of the past greats din’t do it then it must not have been very important?
   How many have done 17 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists with a TS % over .565 for comparison?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 29, 2010 8:06 PM PDT reply actions  

If three guys did it this year and four guys have ever done it that only leaves one guy who did it previously?

Only 4 rookies have done that previously.

by jae on Apr 29, 2010 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Only 4 rookies have done that previously.

 Ok, that makes sense now.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Apr 30, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Out of State

If you follow your favoite team from a different state or country and all you have to rely on is the internet media. I would like to see a site where there is straight reporting without all the personal view BS. I’m a Warrior, Raider, A’s and Cal fan and none of them are covered by ESPN or any of the mainstream networks unless is is something to bring them down. I read the stats and watch what clips I can get and try to follow them the best I can.

by John Will on May 6, 2010 1:22 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m a Warrior, Raider, A’s and Cal fan and none of them are covered by ESPN or any of the mainstream networks unless is is something to bring them down. I read the stats and watch what clips I can get and try to follow them the best I can.

  During the season most games are on the internet. Check the GSofM game thread for the links. No better way to eliminate the viewpoint BS than to watch them with your own eyes.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on May 6, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bookmark

atdhe.net. They have like every game for every sport, even if it’s a crumby feed.

by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The feeds are getting less and less crumby. Especially with Veetle, you can usually watch the whole game, with no choppiness or freezing, at roughly the same resoluton TV used to be when I was as a kid (way back in the ’70s and 80s).

Even the Sleepyette has grown to love atdhe, ’cos she can watch BBC, MSNBC, Daily Show, Colbert, Curb Your Enthusiasm, etc. etc. And instead of paying $100 or so a month for the full TimeWarner package, we pay only $35 for internet only. Yes, the Sleepy household has no TV. Rents in NYC are expensive.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on May 7, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, the Sleepy household has no TV. Rents in NYC are expensive.

Wow. Just wow….

by Missing Barry on May 7, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ohhhh...

So you are one of those hipster liberal NY apartment with no TV couples. No wonder I think you are so cool. ;-)

"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."

by olympicmike on May 7, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rents in NYC are expensive.

 Haha, tell me about it, when my daughter first moved there I wasn’t sure if I was payin rent or supporting a heroin addiction? IIRC is was about twice as much as hollywood without the benefit of the Lakers and Dodgers nearby?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on May 7, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions  

What benefit?

"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."

by olympicmike on May 7, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

What benefit?

 For the dodgers it’s warm summer nights in cheap bleacher seats and for the lakers it’s going to a game secure in the knowledge you are not ever gonna see a damn Dleaguer.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on May 7, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unless the Warriors are in town?

"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."

by olympicmike on May 8, 2010 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

curses, foiled again !

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on May 8, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, you’re telling me Skeptic has a daughter?

That poor child…

Did Morrow get ejected???

by DrManatee on May 8, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

That poor child…

  Haha, She’s doing alright, here boyfriend is a NY sportswriter so she gets to go to yankee games for free.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on May 9, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

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