RUMOR: Memphis Grizzlies NOT trading for Golden State Warriors guard Monta Ellis
by Atma Brother ONE on May 30, 2010 8:40 AM PDT
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Monta bought this guy's crib in Memphis.
Think there's a "low-speed" Moped track in the backyard?
Monta Ellis Trades Himself? Guard Buys $1.7 Million Home in Memphis [Straight Outta Vancouver]
Jump for the details!
Words by Ronald Tillery from The Commercial Appeal with comments inserted:
Golden State guard Monta Ellis' decision to purchase an Eads home formerly owned by Memphis native Lorenzen Wright does not mean the Griz and Warriors have re-ignited trade talks from earlier this season.
The Griz are not trading for Ellis, according to a team insider.
Sure they're not- I love the posing by the Grizz front office.
Ellis, a Jackson, Miss. native, purchased the home along with Juanika M. Amos (reportedly a Memphis-area native) after Wright and his wife, Sherra, defaulted on a $2.7 million construction loan last year.
A $2.7 million loan in the Bay Area buys you a nice 5-6 bedroom house in an "uppity neighborhood". I can only imagine with $2.7 construction loan buys you in Memphis. MTV Cribs easily.
Ellis' move fed more speculation given the Warriors asked the Griz about acquiring O.J. Mayo last November. The Griz declined but eventually asked about Ellis' availability around the February trade deadline.
The teams never came close to a deal.
Correction. If it hadn't been for Robert Rowell (who stubbornly and ignorantly holds onto this false notion that Ellis sells tickets) this deal would probably be done. People who know basketball (ahem, Don Nelson) would have done the rumored deal "in a heartbeat". I'm willing to bet money (not $2.7 of course!) that this is just the Griz sending out vibes via the media to: a) understandably try to mitigate any annoyance the rumors caused Mayo and b) potentially try to get the Warriors to up their offer.
Don't believe for a second that the Grizzlies wouldn't love to have local talent Monta Ellis playing on their team.
Don't believe for a second that the Warriors wouldn't love to send Monta Ellis and his low hoops IQ, ball-hoggery, league-leading turnover rate, and "can't do it" attitude about fan fav Stephen Curry on a moped to Middle of Nowhere, USA.
Don't believe for a second that this team wouldn't be better without him for a multitude of reasons. Hey, there's a reason my man JAE gave Ellis and his gaudy and inflated 25.5 ppg this past season a big, fat, solid D.
From the Vault:
- RUMOR: Golden State Warriors head coach Don Nelson would have traded Monta Ellis to Memphis Grizzlies for O.J. Mayo + Hasheem Thabeet "in a heartbeat"
- Polling GSoM: Monta Ellis to Memphis Grizzlies, O.J. Mayo + Hasheem Thabeet (+ maybe Hamed Haddadi) to Golden State Warriors- Are you down?
- Q&A: Tim Kawakami (San Jose Mercury)- Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins situations + Ellis and Stephen Curry co-existing [Part 1 of 2]
- RUMOR: Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins to Celtics, Ray Allen, Kendrick Perkins, and J.R. Giddens to Warriors- Think the Boston Celtics would be in the 2010 NBA Finals if they made this trade? I doubt it. They'd be SOFT.
- RUMOR: Monta Ellis to Boston Celtics, Ray Allen to Golden State Warriors
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“The Memphis Bullet” has such a nice ring to it…
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I’m going to re-post the “three-way deal that has to happen” (unless Wes or Cuz falls to us):
• GS gets: Iguodala and #12 (say, Cool Hand Luke Babbitt, or maybe a boom/bust guy like Hassan Upside)
• MEM gets: Monta and #6 (say, Aminu to replace Gay)
• PHI gets: Mayo and Thabeet (Mayo’s sweet perimeter game goes nicely w/ Holliday’s and Evan Turner’s; Thabeet replaces Dalembert, who walks at the end of this year).
Yeah, probably as unlikely as any three-way deal posted on a fansite, but which team says no to this deal?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 30, 2010 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
hmmm,
Philly says no. They downgrade their best player and get a backup center, for some salary relief and more youth. Even though Philly having a young core of Young, Williams, Turner, Holiday, Mayo, and Thabeet sounds pretty good…. On second thought, I would do that if I was Stefanski and I could weasel a late first from Memphis.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on May 30, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Some reasons Philly might consider it:
1. Their “best player” is not the kind of best player that gets them anywhere interesting. It’s not like we’re fleecing a good or even decent team of their best player. Sometimes crappy teams need to make a change for the sake of change, even if it’s a pretty lateral move. Also: you’ll have to ask Missing Barry to confirm, but I’m pretty sure Iggy isn’t the type of beloved, dyed-in-the-wool franchise player that cranky Philly fans would kill the team for letting go.
2. Evan Turner profiles extremely similarly to their best player — a do-it-all wing player. Normally having two great wings is not a problem, but having two ball-dominant wings, neither of whom is a lights out perimeter shooter, could be a problem. They could pick Favors or Cousins instead of Turner, but then they’re passing on the consensus BPA; and taking a huge PR risk in the event Cousins / Favors doesn’t pan out.
3. HUGE cap relief. $3M right off the bat, and then up to $13M-15M after that, depending on what they feel like doing with Mayo and Thabeet. In a tough financial climate, with the Elton Brand albatross weighing them down, this flexibiity may be the single biggest motivation.
If anything I think Philly might be the most motivated of the three teams to pull the trigger…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 30, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
But is it necessary to trade picks with Memphis?
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 30, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
If you remove the pick trade
I think it would be just as good. MEM already wanted Ellis for Thabeet and Mayo I thought?
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on May 30, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting...
I agree. In fact, I’m not sure the proposed trade was even good for the W’s. But if they don’t have t give up the #6, you’re essentially getting AI and the #12 for Ellis.
I believe that would then be enough to maybe even trade up and get someone we can really use. Maybe the #6 and #12 to Minnesota for the #4 and some role player (I actually wouldn’t mind getting Brewer as his perimeter D could be helpful, or maybe get the rights to Rubio). Minnesota does this in a second, and the W’s get into the top part of the draft. Think of a 1-2-3 of Curry, AI, and Johnson.
If your idea went through
We’d probably get Cousins or Favors, whoever is left. Maybe Johnson.
Would be nice to be able to run:
Curry
Iggy
Buki? or wes johnson
AR
Favors/Cousins or beans (but i hope we move him)
We could probably move Maggs for delonte west, and waive west so we could afford to pick up Raja Bell and Morrow.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Yeah, I just mentioned Johnson because he’d be more of a sure thing. I don’t like Cousins and reports indicate the W’s management agrees. Personally, I don’t really understand why so many people around here like a guy with character issues who doesn’t fit the Warriors system. There is, however, a scenario where Turner could even end up at #4 (Philly seems to like Favors and the Nets might prefer Johnson over Turner). In that case, we’re looking at a starting 5 of Curry-Turner-AI-Randolph-Biedrins.
People say the Lakers have length. Take a look at that team. While I somewhat agree that Biedrins should maybe be moved, I think it might be premature. With that kind of talent around him, I think Bidrins could be ok.
Personally, I don’t really understand why so many people around here like a guy with character issues who doesn’t fit the Warriors system.
Cause he’s big and a very good player and our system sucks. We’re not gonna hire him to be our spiritual mentor, just our big bangin center.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 30, 2010 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Who said anything about a spiritual mentor?
Another thing I don’t understand: how some people can see how Monta’s attitude and body language affect the team, but fail to see how potential draftees or free agents could have a similar effect.
You guys make jokes about how Cousins doesn’t have to be a good guy or whatever, and I agree. But he does have to be a good TEAMMATE, and there is reason to believe he won’t be.
But he does have to be a good TEAMMATE, and there is reason to believe he won’t be.
not according to tapes I’ve watched of the Kentucky team, they had a great time and played well together.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 31, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Screw the system. The system isn’t exactly working. Nelson’s not coming back. We need talent, not to pass up talent to pick someone that fits “our system”. “Our system” is an attempt to make losing basketball entertaining. Also, Biedrins has already proven he can be more than just ok.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree that the system sucks
But so many people seem so concerned with it when talking about other players, and rightfully so. A player’s success is highly dependent on the situation he lands in, and we have to accept that, like it or not, this is the system the Warriors are using right now.
And I’m not sure why you’re supporting Biedrins and at the same time advocating that the W’s draft a player that plays his position.
Well, the biggest thing with the situation they land in is we know we won’t have Nellie around past this season, so no need to think about fit for a guys rookie year. As for Biedrins, I think he’s a solid starter. I also think star big men win lots of games for you, so I’d love to upgrade Biedrins if given the opportunity. I also think there are less than 6 big time talents in this draft, and Cousins is one of them (his attitude/weight issues not included in the evaluation of his “talent”). So seems to me it works on a lot of levels – gives us a guy who might be able to upgrade Biedrins, gives us a guy who realistically is a much better prospect than we should expect in our current draft spot, and also one that seems to me fits with all our current bigs fairly well. We can go big with him and Biedrins dominating the glass, letting Cousins bang down low and Biedrins use his quickness/passing ability, Cousins can step out and hit 15 footers….I could see them complementing each other well at times. Cousins and Randolph/Wright the same way, with Cousins banging bodies down low while they’re free to use their athleticism out of the key, blocking shots on the weak side, offensively I could see them fitting together…..I think Cousins would be a good fit for our current personnel.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention that a backcourt of all lotto picks (Holiday, Mayo, and Turner) would bring much needed hype to a struggling franchise.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 30, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait, Holiday wasn't a lotto pick, but he might as well count as one
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 30, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
How are we better
Monta and Aminu/Wes Johnson seems better than Iguodala and Babbit
If we get Iguodala, we’ll probably go with a big man instead of a wing player. I’d take Iguodala and Aldrich, Udoh or Sanders over Ellis and Aminu, Johnson or Monroe. We’re getting the best player in that deal.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 30, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t assume Babbitt, but provided the player at #12 isn’t all that different from the one at #6 (or the dubs kept their pick as others suggested & the #12 went to Philly), it would basically improve the dubs at their 2 biggest weaknesses. Defense & Rebounding. The dubs are NYKs, Twolves, Raptors level bad on defense & not only are they the worst offensive & defensive rebounding team in the NBA, it’s not even close.
Iggy cleared 3% on the offensive glass & 16.8% on defense (overall rebounding rate was 9.8%). Monta Ellis cleared 1.9% & 9% (overall rate is 5.4%). That’s a huge 4.4% difference if Iggy plays SG for the dubs & continues to rebound at that rate. Of course, if Nellie’s still around you might see Reggie Williams or Anthony Morrow at the 2 spot. Still, both players are around league average or better (Morrow overall was 7.1% & Williams was 7.8%)
I’d like to believe that everyone can subjectively see that Iggy is a better defender. But if you don’t, & though defense is harder to quantify, all the metrics that do try to qualify defense are in Iggy’s favor.
In terms of defensive rating, Iggy is at 106 ppg vs Monta’s 112. Iggy is credited with 2.8 defensive win shares over Monta’s 1.3 wins. Plus/minus in vs out, Sixers give up 1 less point per 100 possessions when Iggy is in. Opponents shoot an eFG% of 0.5% worse as well. Warriors give up 4 points more per 100 possessions when Monta is in & the opposition shoots 3.3% better when Monta is in the game.
Offensively, Iggy is actually more helpful as well. Since most #6 picks are role players anyway Flynn, Gallinari, Yi Jian Lian, Martell Webster, Josh Childress, Chris Kaman, Dajuan Wagner, Shane Battier, Dermarr Johnson, Wally Szczrerbiak, Robert Traylor, Ron Mercer. Unless you’re a time traveler & know that if they had the pick, they’d end up picking a star, then the guy they pick is likely going to be a role player. However, Brandon Roy was also 6th overall & it’s not like there weren’t plenty of solid starters picked after 6. It’s just that the GMs who were picking either sucked at projecting players &/or deciphering how well players skills would translate or had scouts that sucked at it.
by homer simpson on May 30, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m pretty sure Iggy isn’t the type of beloved, dyed-in-the-wool franchise player that cranky Philly fans would kill the team for letting go.
My friends I play in a basketball league all seem to like the idea of trading Iguodala. He might be like the 20th most famous athlete here or something (completely making that number up, but you get the point).
by Missing Barry on May 30, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
The interesting thing is
Anytime I go to Liberty Ballers blog, i get laughed at. They seem to think, Iggy + something could get them a top 5-10 player in NBA.
Also management seems to like Iggy. They are more interested in trading Turner (well #2 pick) than Iggy. They really seem to think they can package #2 to get ride of Brand
It was a good buy
2.7 Million was reduced to $1.7 Million. I think we can all agree that Monta is gone. He just was Mr. prickly too much to Steph and this is Steph’s team now. Nice knowing you Monta close the door on your way out.
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
Why? We can just assume he’ll be gone because he bought a house in the closest real city to where he grew up?
by Missing Barry on May 30, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I want him to stay a Warrior
bg. I think we can all agree that Monta is gone.
Uh, I don’t. I live in Portland and like it here. If I got a half-year job in say, Cleveland, I would still buy a house in Portland. Waaay too much being read into this.
Waaay too much being read into this.
The fact that Monta to Memphis has been discussed for 2 years now means we are not reading too much into it. I used to love Monta but he had a messed up attitude last year and lost me as a fan. He’s got game but he’s a walking headcase and no team will win with him as one of its stars.
Goodbye Monta.
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 30, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
damn the block was above my skill set :)
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 30, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Trying to learn block quotes
I think we can all agree that Monta is gone.
There! a new skill for today.
Off topic: http://www.hoopsnotes.com/2010/05/source-joe-johnson-will-leave-atlanta/#more-22262 Don’t know if it’s true, but it’s interesting.
I think everyone pretty much assumed that already.
by Missing Barry on May 30, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Good player, if a tad overrated for being a high-volume scorer. A big step up from Gay, maybe a half-step below ’Melo, a step below Durant. Still, the best player on Indiana by far, and given his age and production, not that unreasonably paid (compare, for example, the max-contract mediocrity that is Rashard Lewis). Is there any reason to think they would even consider trading him?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 30, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Bird said that he “regressed” despite posting 21 PPG last season.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 30, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
He averaged over 24 points per game, but he did regress a little bit. His shooting percentages were down across the board. I don’t think it’s a cause for concern, though.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 30, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I could see the Pacers trading Granger for the top pick, but that’s it. I doubt Washington wants to essentially trade Wall for Granger, but maybe they’d give it some thought if Indiana was willing to part with their draft pick as well. I don’t know.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on May 30, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Overrated and inconsistent and tired of taking Indiana castoffs.
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 30, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
What are your guys’ thoughts on Danny Granger?
We’d have to overpay. So unless I can get him for Monta +6 or Wright, I’d pass. Indiana would certainly be looking for more than that.
OT: Doesn’t Avery Bradley seem like the perfect fit for them? Compared athletically to George Hill and Westbrook. Didn’t play PG in college but some say he could. Lots of potential.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I voted that Monta will probably stay.
But who knows.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Cause Mayo isn’t exactly all that good and they’ve given up on Thabeet basically. Also, Monta’s hometown of Jackson, Mississippi is close to that area, making him the hometown player, which can lead to ticket sales.
I don’t think they’ve necessarily given up on Thabeet, but they really don’t need him at this point. Other players have emerged.
by Missing Barry on May 30, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Mayo and Thabeet are expiring next year, and are certainly not worth long term deals.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 30, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe because Memphis isn’t a very well run franchise? They went after Monta this past season. They signed AI last year because they think players make a meaningful impact on attendance (they really don’t, winning is what affects attendance).
by Missing Barry on May 30, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention trading for Z-Bo
That worked out for them, but pre-trade, I don’t think any basketball person would tell you it’s intelligent.
And then there’s the Pau trade….
Yeah I admit the Pau trade was pretty dumb beforehand, but his caveman brother Marc is pretty damn good.
I'd like to see the Caveman Frontcourt
Pau + Marc. I think it would be at least as good as Pau + Bynum
Hi Lisa. Hi Super Nintendo Chalmers.
by Reverend_Randy on May 30, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL @ Poll Options
"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis
I don’t get all the love for J-Rich and all the hate for Monta from some people. Monta makes a lot of money and doesn’t offer much D but neither does the former slam dunk champion. Aside from being three inches taller, what makes him > Monta?
by ChronicMasticator on May 30, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions
Stuck by the organization, didn’t really complain about being on this bad team. Loved the fans, put in so much effort in winning even with crappy teammates like Dunleavy. Hell he even made a newspaper ad saying that he was sorry he wasn’t able to help us reach the playoffs. So I don’t get why we wouldn’t like him?
Exactly.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 30, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Stuck by the organization, didn’t really complain about being on this bad team. Loved the fans
I’m not sure when he complained. He said he loved W’s fans over the radio and said he was a W and wants to retire a W. He’s just not the guy J Rich is though in the public since he seems pretty quiet
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It is already tomorrow in Australia
and that he's a dbag.
J-Rich would have never done anything like Mopedgate.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 30, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Mayo
is simply not better than Monta and Thabeet could not fit in on a fast-paced team
Get Monta to Dallas '10!
.
Really? Seems to me he’s in good shape and athletic, so I think he’d do fine.i can’t sense the sarcasm. i mean i’m trying to get a feel for it, but i just don’t know if you’re serious or not.
C’mon man you and I both know that Thabeet is probably the last center you want on a run’ n gun team. He has lead blocks for feet and can only really play in a half court set. I appreciate your input, but I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one.
Uhm, okay?
He has lead blocks for feetDidn’t really get that
Anyways, Thabeet is an athletic defensive center. I never said he’s the center for us, I’m just saying that he probably is capable of playing on this team and could help us. Now if I had to choose between him or Biedrins, of course I’d pick Beans. All I’m saying is that he can help us in areas that we need help on such as defense.
Apparently, you both don't know
as I understood it, Thabeet is reasonably athletic and quick for his size.
Hi Lisa. Hi Super Nintendo Chalmers.
by Reverend_Randy on May 30, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
First, why do we have to play at a fast pace? Second, why isn’t an athletic center than can grab rebounds a fit for that? Third….well, I’ll throw some quotes from DraftExpress and NBADraft.net out about Thabeet for his draft profile last year:
Has impeccable timing and athleticism for someone 7-foot-3 … Is extremely mobile for someone his size. Often beats guards down the court
Tremendous lateral quickness for a player his size. Can guard smaller players out to the 3-point line … Is a bit stronger than he appears. Overall, Thabeet has a scary combination of size and athleticism that doesn’t come along often
Strengths:
-Ability to run the floor
-Explosiveness
-Mobility
When you aren’t a good team, you don’t pass on talent because of how they “fit” on the team. You acquire talent, and make it work later.
by Missing Barry on May 31, 2010 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with what you said about Thabeet helping us on D, I mean we need ALL the help we can get, especially on the boards, but it seems at this point any player with a defensive mindset would be able to help us.
Uhm, okay?
He has lead blocks for feet
Didn’t really get that
What I mean is that he plays with “heavy feet”. He’s a plodder, a person is not light of foot. He’s an earthquake running down the court.
Hmm Thabeet seems pretty athletic to me. I thought he can run the floor? I could be wrong, but having him as a backup would be pretty nice.
Yeah he's a mobile guy for 7'3.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 30, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Montay Ellis trades himself?
Haha, I like that concept. Go buy a house next to the team you want to go to’s practice facility and hang out all day asking them to take you?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 30, 2010 9:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I voted no
but I would like to see Monta ride his moped to greener pastures.
Hi Lisa. Hi Super Nintendo Chalmers.
by Reverend_Randy on May 30, 2010 10:38 PM PDT reply actions
When will people get over that?
?????????
when it stops being funny
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
by wallywagon11 on Jun 2, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to give you credit cnostril
at least this time you were a little more polite.
Could some of you maybe use a condom once in a while?
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