The Top Players in the NBA

Well, I agree with the players on the list, but I’m not sure I’d put Pau that high.
Quality fan post
rec’d

My list:

1. LeBron James
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Chris Paul
5. Kevin Durant
6. Deron Williams
7. Dwight Howard
8. Chris Bosh
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Steve Nash

I would put CP3 above everybody except Lebron and Wade though. That man has only played with 1 semi-star at a time in his career. If you put him with Bynum and Gasol…wow. I mean, that could be a crappy argument for a guy considering Lebron doesn’t need anybody and he will win a lot, but still…

Forgot about Nash. After watching him against the Spurs last night…Wow. I mean, the pick and rolls he orchestrates with Amare are just unstoppable. He is amazing. I’d say he’s more responsible for his team’s wins than anyone not named Lebron.

Nash is clearly better. Novitski deserves consideration, as well. Carmelo should definitely be above Rondo.

(I think Carmelo is underappreciated because those Denver teams don’t seem that memorable, but he’s really raised his game in the last couple of years. He’s really really good.)

Heck, Paul Pierce is better than Rondo when he’s at 100%.

All of these players are getting heavy starters minutes. I would think it would be more meaningful to just show the stats they get in a game.

Personally, if there were two players with identical stats, i would think the fact that one plays more minutes makes him stand out more, not the other way around.

He’s just the biggest-strongest-most athletic center in the NBA. Sure he’s good at blocking shots and dunking but that doesn’t make him a better player than Kobe Bryant. Once he polishes his offensive game more (softer touch around the rim + free throw shooting + footwork)… then he’ll be the 2nd best player in the NBA.

let alone top ten…you list is stupid

Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Howard, and Durant

That’s an absolute joke. He can’t create his own shot or pass. And he certainly can’t play defense. What planet are you from man?

Its funny how you say Kobe couldnt win without A sidekick, then you go on to praise KG who couldnt win without two superstars along side him.

This list is coming from a Kobe hater. A bad one at that. im not saying Kobe is the best or 2nd or 3rd best. But the guy is hands down still one of the top 5 guys in this league

How can you put Pau OVER Dirk when Dirk is the single reason for the Mavs 50+ wins streak? Put him away and the Mavs are done.

Or did I misunderstand this article?

Achievements:
•Led mediocre team to 50 win season in 2003-04
•Led bad team to 45 win season in 2004-05
•Led mediocre team to 49 win season in 2005-06

I don’t understand how the 03-04 Grisslies were “mediocre” yet the 04-05 Grizzlies were “bad” and somehow they went back to “mediocre.” Should probably be pointed out that Kobe’s 05-06 and 06-07 Laker’s teams were “bad” in comparison to the Grizzlie teams yet they won 45 and 42 games. Kinda confused how Gasol’s situation shows how good he was yet Kobe’s shows how he is not good.

This may not seem like anything special, but the next season- with Gasol injured, and out 25 games, the team went 22-60. The Lakers on the other hand were a 7 seed for the next two years with the Kobe show-with no Gasol

Sorry but this doesn’t make much sense. If Kobe was out 25 games, his team would have been in a similar situyation as the Grizzlies. As for Gasol, if he was healthy his team would have been lucky to be a 7th seed. It just seems you are trying to make an arguement just for the sake of pissing off Kobe fans.

I know it’s one game, but does anyone doubt Rondo’s spot on this list after his performance today.

1. Lebron
we all agree right?

2. Dwight Howard
same argument as listed. far and away best on defense, very efficient and creates spacing for best 3 point shooting team

3. CP3
Has put up the 2 highest non-John Stockton AST% ever (at least since it started being recorded). Also shoots a TS of about 585-600, and is one of the best at creating turnovers. Has a TO% of about 13, lower than Wade by a bit and lower than Derons 17 by a lot. Is doing this with a decent David West and noone else. Obviously not as good a rebounder or contact-maker as Wade but CP3s 3 point abilities and playmaking puts him above.

4. Dwayne Wade
Roughly 565 TS at 36 USG, has been able to carry the biggest burden of crappy teammates since TMac and Garnett did the same. Shoots too many 3s but does everything else very well. Ds up when he wants to, much like Kobe. The ability to buckle down on D and more importantly his playmaking/assist ability are what put him over Durant.

5. Kevin Durant
I came thiiiiis close to putting him above Wade. 607 TS at 32 USG. Better TS than any season Wade has had. I don’t know how much stock to put into defensive win shares but Durant has 5, more than Wade’s best season (granted Wade has typically been surrounded by much crappier defenders). And you know Durant hasn’t peaked yet. Also, Westbrook is the only other capable player on a 50 win-team, and he shoots like crap.

6. Tim Duncan
Had a difficult time choosing between Duncan and Gasol in this spot. Almost went with Gasol’s efficiency but choose Duncan’s all around game. Duncan is one of the best passing and rebounding big men, his defense has declined but is still better than Gasol and Bosh. His efficiency has never been that great, TS of 553 career and was above average at that this year. USG between 26 and 28. I am pretty shocked they were swept by the Spurs, though a lot of that falls on the declined play of his teammates.

7. Pau Gasol
Almost went with Gasol and his offensive advantage over Duncan’s declining defense. Gasol shoots nearly 600 TS on 22 USG, but he showed at Memphis he could handle nearly as well with a 25 USG. Very good passing big man, has proven to be a valuable player as argued above.

8. Chris Bosh
Not as good a passer as Gasol, but puts up TS of 580 at a USG of 28 and might be better at D than Gasol (wouldn’t be able to tell from the advanced stats with the crappy help he gets). He and Gasol are very similar so I could see arguments switching 6-8 around.

9. Deron Williams
Everything after 8 is kind of tough. But 575 TS on 24 USG, 10.5 AST per 36. Idk about his D, and his turnovers are high. Of the top 5 PGs, he is the best passer and scorer and has the fewest holes in his game outside of CP3.

10. Steve Nash
Thought of Dirk here but all those playoff loses are a real downer for him. Nash shoots 615 TS, down a bit from being one of the best ever on a USG of 22. Lead the league in ASTs and AST%. His D is bad, but I may be coming around to the perspective that PG defense can be hidden, made up for by strong interior defense. The Lakers are pretty good even with DFish there right?

11. Dirk
About 580 TS on 29 USG. His D has always been bad but his rebounds have really declined lately. Can be the star on a championship caliber team since I still think all those touch fouls on Wade were biased. It is very difficult to make up interior defense, Dirk is a comparison to Barkeley in this fashion. If a dominant defensive presence could be put next to him, he could win a ring.

The others

Kobe – Has had his worst season in awhile but I’m willing to give his shooting woes the benefit of the doubt due to the finger injuries. Think he can get back to a 560 TS next season. I also think his double teams and team defensive strategies to stop him are a large reason for why Pau suddenly saw a spike in his TS from a variable 540-590ish with the Grizzles to a stable 610ish with the Lakers. The decision to take all those long-2 shots at maybe 40% when there are better options available does prevent Kobe from being top 5.

Brandon Roy – A down season due to injuries. 570 TS on 27 USG, good D and passing, very low TO% for a primary ballhandler at about 9.

Rajon – Loving his game, if he developed a bit of shot like how Monta did, top 5. That’s not very realistic though.

Chauncey – Helped turn around the Nuggets, shoots 600 TS, his assists have dropped hard in the past few years though.

Pierce shoots 600 TS in 24 USG, TOs a lot at 14%. Passing has decreased but good at D.

Melo has had 2 straight down years in scoring efficiency, only at about 540 TS on 33 USG, so hes in Kobe-range of selfishness.

Gerald Wallace had a fantastic season and if he repeats it I could see him getting near the top 10, same goes with Bogut.

woo, that was fun

Arguments for putting him ahead of anyone on this list, including Kobe, I just do not agree with. For those that want to say Pau did less with more prior to coming to L.A. I propose this:

Which 9-man rotation would you rather have?

Team A:

PG: Bobby Jackson/Damon Stoudamire
SG: Eddie Jones/Dahntay Jones
SF: Shane Battier/Mike Miller
PF: Hakim Warrick
C: Lorenzen Wright/Jake Tsakalidis

Team B:
PG: Smush “6th man on the worst team in the Chinese League” Parker/ Jordan Farmar
SG: Sasha Vujacic
SF: Luke Walton/Maurice Evans
PF: Lamar Odom/Ronny Turiaf
C: Kwame Brown/Chris Mihm

Team A is Memphis in ‘05/’06 without Gasol. Team B is the Lakers from the same year without Kobe. I personally would take the Memphis roster over ANY roster with Kwame and Smush in the starting lineup.

Also, when people automatically say “well Pau was what made the Lakers so much better the next year, not Kobe,” they neglect to mention that the Lakers were 30-16 when the trade was made. They were already a vastly improved team due to the fact that Smush Parker was stinking up other people’s arenas, replaced by the return of Derek Fisher. Bynum (even though he got hurt just prior to the trade) had just blossomed into an always serviceable, sometimes very good center, Vujacic playing in a contract year (consequently remembering how to shoot) and the addition of Ariza (even though he too got hurt).

Also, you say Gasol “held Howard in check in the 2009 Finals.” What about in ‘08, when he earned the “Gasoft” moniker he still carries to this day? KG wasn’t even guarding him, either. Dude got punked by Kendrick Perkins.

I understand that the writer of this post is probably a Laker hater, and would probably never want to even admit that Kobe is a better player than Brian Cardinal. However, you can’t say “he’s no longer top 10 because he is declining” and then put Tim Duncan in your top 10. Or say that he isn’t top 10 because he has never dominated the Finals, then put 5 people who have never even played in the Finals, let alone lead their teams there, let alone win 4, on the list. Or say that he isn’t better than the average player at scoring when he is always the guy that shoots at the end of shot clocks and game clocks (always a drain on field goal percentage).

If you really believe Gasol is that good, and more important to the Lakers than Kobe is, go ahead. Just don’t contradict yourself when making the argument. As a Laker fan that has watched just about every game since Magic was the COACH of the team (shudder), and who watched every game when Ced Ceballos was the star of the team, trust me when I tell you that Kobe is the reason Gasol sees so few double teams, has the space and time to work on the post, and is the main reason the Lakers are the defending, and hopefully soon to be repeat champs.

My top 10 criteria is different. I do not necessarily put the players up against one another, I use more of a (bad analogy) dog show criteria. I judge each player against the standard for their position, and only do player-to-player comparisons in case of a tie. And I do not consider steals per game to be a measure of defensive ability.

1. LeBron – shouldn’t get too much heat for that pick

2. D. Wade – I compare him right now to 2006 Kobe. He is great, his team blows and can’t get past first round without help.

3. Dwight Howard – I feel he had a legit claim for MVP this year. He can impact the game in any different way on any given day.

4. Kobe – Unquestioned leader of the defending champs. Gives the bigs on the team the space and freedom to operate when remembering not to run the “rectangle” offense.

5. Deron Williams – I put him over CP3 because his ability to take over the game with his scoring makes up for the slight advantage CP3 has defensively

6. CP3 – Just below Williams. Can take over games in just about any area, though his shooting is still a bit suspect for my taste.

7. Brandon Roy – Elite at nothing, but ranges from good to great at everything. I like to think of him as a 2-guard version of Tim Duncan. The “little fundamental.”

8. Dirk – Quite possibly the player I least like to watch work. Ugly as it may be, he has been the foundation for almost a decade of 50-win seasons.

9. Timmy D. – I honestly don’t know how he still produces at the rate he does.

10. Durantula – His supporting cast is way underrated. Still a bit of a one-trick pony, but I fully expect him to supplant everybody 4-9 on my list in the next year or two.

Honorable mention:

Bosh -Is it just me, or does he play with no passion whatsoever? Please stay out of L.A.

Contract year version of Z-Bo – Just kidding.

Gasol – kind of like Brandon Roy. Ranges from good to great at everything, but is notorious for disappearing when it counts (one late tip-in notwithstanding)

They got it right:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Wade
5. Kobe
6. Carmelo
7. Williams
8. Nash
9. Dirk
10. Amare

I was responding to this:

And unless you worship at the altar of PPG, Carmelo Anthony is not above Gasol or Rondo.

Melo’s TS was 54.8% compared to 59.3% for Gasol. Yes, Gasol is higher, but he takes higher percentage shots and can’t create his own shot like Melo.

SilverScreenandRoll is so stupid that i just reposted this, and i was banned because it offended so many people, who say i was trying to stir up problems between Kobe and Gasol….hahahah.

I’ll come straight off the bat and say that Kobe is a 3-sided dice roll for the number two spot on the list with Dwight Howard having two chances to Kobe’s one.
My reasons: Kobe has been injured around half the season with his finger, and his ankle/back injuries. These I believe reduce the validity of the statistics being mainly used to list these players. Also, my definition of best is different in regards to the fact that I value basketball skills more then just effectiveness in helping a team win. I think that Kobe in place of any of the people on the original list ranked 3-10 (perhaps exempting Duncan, because of the difference in positions cause the Spurs have Manu and Parker as guards) sees those teams get to the same amount of wins or perhaps more. Switching him with Howard is difficult and it would depend on how well Gortat would do as a center, because that team is a 3 point shooting team. Switching an injured, 31 year old Kobe with Lebron definitely sees the Cav’s win less games this year, but I don’t imagine them doing as poorly against this Celtics team.

I have to disagree where you say that Kobe doesn’t have the mindset of a top-10 player. If we were to rank players by mindset, Kobe would be miles ahead of everyone. He is one of those people who are driven by the need to win, and he isn’t scared of doing what it takes to win, and isn’t daunted if he fails in doing so. To my eyes, Lebron clearly doesn’t have this after Game 5 against the Celtics yesterday. Very few people in this league play through injuries like Kobe does because they don’t have the same mindset. You can argue that this mindset is sometimes detrimental to the team, and I would agree on occasion, but overall his mindset is the same one MJ had and very few people in the league have today. I don’t think anyone else in the league today would play through the injuries Kobe has gotten on his shooting hand, while there are those who would play even if they had some of his other injuries. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Lebron sit a couple of games because of a problem with his nails one season?

Having learned about the fundamental attribution error in psychology this year, I believe that you guys are incorrect when you attribute the stats Kobe has gotten this year to his skill level and as proof of your opinions that he isn’t one of the top 10 best players. I think you have to look more at the situation, and realize that he is injured, which greatly affected his shooting during the season, as well as his assists, rebounds, and turnover numbers, but with rest and adjustment, he is shooting 50% for the post season.

Conversely, giving all those players on the list Kobe’s injured finger, I believe all of them have surgery or sit out while it heals, but assuming they don’t, they achieve much worse stats then Kobe does this year.

Now, skill-wise, I still believe that Kobe is the best player in the league, because no one has the level of fundamental skills in all facets of the game combined that he does. However, when we throw ability into the equation, that is where Lebron becomes number one on these lists, followed by my Howard/Kobe toss up. I would have Wade as my number 4, Gasol at 5. Chris Paul at 6, Kevin Durant at 7. Nowitzki (sp?) is at 8 because of his basketball skills, and I don’t think I can rank any further then that because I can’t tell you what I think if I don’t know what I think. Realistically I think you could also flip flop Paul and Gasol and Durant and Nowitzki but Durant is only getting better while Dirk is getting older.

I’m not a big fan of using stats to compare players after the game, I prefer they are used before as a predictor of what will usually happen during the game.

Random question: Is there a stat for who has the most And-1’s? The freethrow doesn’t have to be made, I just want to see who has made the most baskets while getting fouled. Also, if there is, can we separate fouls on jump shots from fouls on lay ups?

Those are all more WP than Gasol, Duncan, Williams, Wade, Paul, and Bosh.

I thought you guys go by the stats and what produces wins. Hmm…

when he said Duncan had a better year than David Lee.

Hand-waiving and deflecting the criticism towards me doesn’t answer that question.

There are many other statistics to compare. He chose exactly two metrics, so unless he was purposely citing only the statistics that show Duncan had a better year (which would be disingenuous), then I assume – indeed, giving him the benefit of the doubt – that he thought these are the best metrics available. Otherwise, I’d have to believe he purposely chose only the stats that show Duncan had a better year, and ignored the ones that show Lee had a better year. Again, I assume he wouldn’t purposely do that.