3 of the Future
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 8:55 AM PDT
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In all the pre-draft discussion, there's a noticeable absence of talk about our need for a legit SF to go up against the stars of the league at the position like Lebron James and Kevin Durant. The Warriors clearly have problems down low, as they always do, but I suppose that it would be best for the team to resist the temptation to draft an Anthony Randolph 2.0 like Derrick Favors, and instead draft a prototypical SF that we can lock into the starting line-up next to Randolph. Wall, Turner, and Cousins would be worth much deliberation, but if it comes down to Johnson or Favors, I think the make-up of our current roster makes the choice pretty clear. Randolph, Wright, and Biedrins are all coming back, along with Turiaf. Drafting another PF would not only create a situation where there aren't enough minutes to go around but it would almost seal the deal that Randolph will not resign with the Warriors. If we haven't given up on him yet, then we need to stay the course with Randolph as the starter and Wright as the back-up. For the most part, I'm realizing that the best course may be patience with our bigs.
Instead, the Warriors need to acquire a SF that can match-up with the long SFs in the NBA. Right now the position is littered with hybrid 2/3's like Azubuike and Williams. Maggette is efficient and may rebound relatively well for his position but he is by no means a physical presence and has absolutely no chance defending dominant SF's in the league. He's an efficient change of pace off the bench, and there he should remain. Essentially, the team has three back-up SFs.
And so, I propose drafting Wesley Johnson, a player that is long: he boards extremely well for his position (8.5 per) and can also block shots (1.8 per). Those are impressive numbers when put up against the fact that he drastically improved his FG% this past year (50%) by showing excellent shot selection in the mid-range. By all accounts, he's the consummate teammate, a player that defers to his teammates but loves to get out in the open court and play above the rim. Nellie will like the fact that he can also shoot the 3, an attribute that I consider as merely gravy.
Lets face the truth, no big free agents are coming here. And so just like the Thunder, the best chance to compete is to let a young team gel together. We have so many of those pieces already; inserting Johnson and moving Ellis for Iguodala or Mayo (because we need to move Ellis is we're going to be most successful) could make the Warriors a very young and exciting team to follow. I love Monta and think he's a player, but chemistry matters. Lets stop the controversy and trot out a no-nonsense team that will always play hard and together. Here's what I'm saying:
Wesley Johnson
Anthony Randolph
This is my dream line-up for the next 3-5 years. We may not win early, but eventually I think this team could usher in a new era of playoff hoops in the East Bay. When stacked up against the Thunder, a team many are referring to as the model, I would almost prefer our guy at every position but SF.
Curry vs. Westbrook - a matter of styles, both are equal distributors, but Curry scores and Westbrook bodies
Iguodala/Mayo vs. Harden - I'd probably take our guy either way based on athleticism, all three are skilled
Johnson vs. Durant - clearly Durant, but Johnson has the look of a Danny Granger in the making
Randolph vs. Green - Randolph is still raw but he's far superior athletically than Green, who's really a SF
Biedrins vs. Ibaka - Biedrins is still the more experienced player and better rebounder
A top three pick might change this scenario with the possibility of acquiring Wall, Turner, or Cousins. But if we land in the 4-6 range, drafting Wesley Johnson would be a great direction to go, maybe even the best given the current make-up of our roster.
Can't wait to see those ping pong balls droppin!!
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Derrick Favors is not Anthony Randolph 2.0.
Favors is a very good defender, and is a big body. Not at all AR.
And you’d have to be crazy to ay Westbrook and Curry are equal distributors.
Or trade Monta without getting a big man back.
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 9:10 AM PDT reply actions
they may have different body types
but they would be asked to do the same thing: play the 4, board, block shots, and pitch in some scoring in the mid-teens.
Favors would be asked to play center
Him and AR together would be good
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
Good maybe
Undersized definitely.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
AR is pushing 6'11 maybe 7'
Favors is about 250 and 6’10 with long arms. Doesn’t sound that undersized
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
True, but AR still get’s manhandled down low. Favors looks stronger, but it’s all assumptions until he plays. They’re both still skinny.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
He doesn't look too skinny too me , he just looks like he's got muscle. Not really thick but not skinny, he's only 18 as well
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
A guy who went on court with them
described his team mate as tall, but he called Favors big and made a distinction between them. He’s already pretty strong, and has the frame to be huge.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't disagree that he's stronger than anyone we have.
But you usually don’t see many guys fully developed at 19. I’m still sticking to my guns that while extremely athletic and long, the AR-Favors Eiffel Tower lacks ideal strength and body mass.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I think Favors is much stronger than AR
and has the frame to be really strong. I don’t think he’s ready to contribute at an NBA level yet. He’s raw-ish.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Draftexpress has him at 6'10
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Favors-1335/
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
Yes and if Favors can do it better, then you draft Favors.
Not to mention he has star potential and is 5 years younger than Wes Johnson.
I like Wes Johnson a lot, but not if Favors is on the board.
I agree Curry is a better distributor and shooter, just not as athletic
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 6, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Or trade Monta without getting a big man back
If you’re getting a good 2 to replace Monta, why is that so crazy?
Iguodala/Mayo vs. Harden
Igoudala hands down over the other 2, but I’d rather have Harden than Mayo. Harden is already better, he’s at least as athletic, he’s longer, and he gets to the line better than Mayo.
Random note – I thought Reggie Williams was 6’6 (because BB-Ref says so), but he measured out at 6’3.25 (no shoes) at the combine, so he’s two inches shorter than I thought (6’4 with shoes)…..
Williams was listed at 6-6 220. Guess not.
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
definitely, Iguodala would be the choice
Because Monta isn’t a perfect fit, it just makes too much sense to target a defender in return, a physical 2 like Iguodala.
Curry / Iguodala would be siiiiiick.
Mayo is a bit undervalued in this community
how about a guy that can straight defend, shoot the three, all while pouring in 17/3/3 in Memphis’ very slow system?
Curry / Mayo would be legit as well.
I’m not a big fan of Mayo, because I don’t believe in his defense (though I never watch the Grizzlies, so I am open to arguments it’s better than I think), I don’t think he’s that athletic, he’s the same player in year 2 he was in year 1, which is a guy who can do nicely as a scoring role player (and his scoring all comes from jumpshots) but doesn’t really bring much else to the table, and I don’t think he’s going to improve substantially from what he already is. For instance, what does Mayo give us that Morrow doesn’t? I was initially very much in favor of a Monta for Mayo/Thabeet swap, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how Morrow already gives us whatever Mayo does and the less in favor of the deal I become.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Mayo is a little bit better of a defender than Morrow
and a little bit more of a play maker, I think, but not that much else. Reggie Williams is already better than Mayo IMO.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Mayo
Brings in an additional ball handler that Morrow is definitely not. He’s also a better playmaker than Morrow. Morrow was a bad defender last year, I can’t see OJ being that much worse.
I’d take Mayo over Morrow, but that’s me.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I’d take Mayo over Morrow, but that’s me.
I would, too, but Morrow’s also a better shooter to make up for some of the things you mentioned, and the real point I guess is the difference between them is really small overall, and they’d play almost the exact same role…..
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m sure Monta/Curry was also supposed to be
siiiiiick.
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but Igoudala is a lot better than Monta and also has ideal size for the 2.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
And? So do you suggest we trade Monta, 11 mil a year, for a decent big man, which we need?
Or, trade him for Iguodala, who will provide us with some highlights, along with good defense and some passing, with an even worse contract?
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
We don’t need a wing, we need to focus on getting a SF and a center. Beans can stay until the young guy is ready than traded for a 3 when he’s stock rises. We need a banger which we don’t have
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
while we don't need a wing
to get a physical 2 would change the entire character of the starting 5. All of the sudden we’d have Curry and a physical guard (a physical backcourt) rather than Curry and an undersized guard (a small backcourt). This would be a good change.
Moving Monta for any post player better than Biedrins and Randolph will be difficult.
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
we need to focus on getting a SF
If you’d like, Igoudala can easily play that role, too.
We need a banger which we don’t have
We don’t need a role. We need a player that contributes a lot. Filling the “banger” role doesn’t help if you lose in other areas. On ball post defense is nice, and something we could use, but not if the cost is too high in other areas. Ultimately, we need better talent.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Well we could get a banger who produces ;)
Yes Iggy can play 3 and I’m fine with that
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
for a decent big man
We have "decent’ big men. We need “really good” big men. I don’t think there’s any chance we get one for Monta, for the exact reason we want to get rid of Monta for one – Monta < really good big man. Igoudala’s contract is more expensive than Monta’s, but I wouldn’t call it worse, because Igoudala is really good. I also don’t think we can get Igoudala for Monta, because Igoudala > Monta. Other than a couple of dumb teams, I honestly don’t see why we’d get much of anything of real value for Monta, unless that player comes with a bad contract attached.
I’m of the mindset that building around a big man is optimal. Good big men win games and are extremely valuable, especially since they’re so rare. The problem is….well, they’re so valuable and rare, they just aren’t available very often, and take a lot to get even when they are.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I've been coming around on Iggy's contract
I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say he’s one of the 5 best 2s in the league, up there with guys like Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy. Not the best shooter/scorer out there, but he more than makes up for it with everything else he brings to the table.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he's underrated
because he’s not a scorer on par with the other great SG’s, but I bet he plays better defense and moves the ball around more.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I think you can make that case, too. He’s an excellent defender, monster rebounder, creates for others well, and while not an elite scorer himself or anything, is still a guy that can score some, and I think he’d be more effective with better teammates, too.
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions
r.williams
if you compare him on the court with the other players, and watch how he uses his appendages and movement, he has the neck of someone 6’0, the legs of someone 6’7, and the reach of someone 6’9. He can shift gears and direction adeptly, sometimes appearing to shift his size to get between or around defenders. His thick, stocky body type is a good complement to the skinny whippets on the roster.
He is long for his height, but you’re exaggerating on his reach just a bit. He actually has the reach of someone who’s 6’5, according to his combine measurements and the historical combine averages. He also came in slightly below average from a weight standpoint, though obviously that’s something that could have changed since then. Looks to me like he’s got the size to play SG, but is on the “smaller than ideal” side of that, and definitely shouldn’t be guarding big wings.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
draft express lists his span
as 6’9.25", and he looks bigger than the weight at the time he was measured, 199. ‘historical combine averages’ is probably not from a general population of people 6’4", nicht wahr?
historical combine averages’ is probably not from a general population of people 6’4", nicht wahr?
They list the averages by height. I was going by standing reach – his is about where the average 6’5 combine invitee has been. NBA players are freaks – they all have long wingspans.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
If you’re getting a good 2 to replace Monta, why is that so crazy?
Well, because…we kind of need a big man?
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 9:23 AM PDT reply actions
I’d rather have a good big man, but they’re hard to come by. We might not have any options. I think our best bet is probably some combination of Randolph, Wright, or Cousins/Favors (if we end up with one) developing into an impact big.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Or…we sign the FA Brendan Haywood or trade for the ill-used Brandon Bass? Or sign David Lee?
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
We can come up with hypothetical options, and they might be good ideas, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re realistic. We’re over the cap, we can’t sign any FA’s above the MLE, so are there good options out there we can get for the MLE? Can we trade for players without giving up way too much talent? Possibly, and if we can, great, we should go for it, but it might not be available and we also have to consider if, in terms of overall production, any player we add actually improves our team, or if they just fill something we think we want (on ball post defense) while sacrificing in other areas to the point it doesn’t actually help us….
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
The only way wed sacrifice to the point where it doesn’t help us is if we trade Curry.
Nevertheless, trading for Iguodala is not a trade we want.
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Or Randolph or Wright or any other combination of young players where more talent is leaving than coming in……
Nevertheless, trading for Iguodala is not a trade we want.
Assuming a hypothetical situation where we could trade Monta straight up for Igoudala, we’d be on the better side of that trade. Maybe it wouldn’t be the best option, I’m open to that, but it’s a better option than Monta.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s true. But I’d still look to trade Monta for a big.
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, as I said somewhere else, I’m all about building around a big man….the problem is just they’re hard to find.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, because…we kind of need a big man?
Completely missing the point. Trading Monta is not going to get you a big man (In fact I’d be surprised if Monta would garner Iggy unless it were a pure cost cutting move by Philly).
We have a general idea of Monta’s value around the league (Mayo/Thabeet for Monta & Ray Allen for Monta + Vladimir Radmanovic). Judging from these 2 offers, it’s highly unlikely that the W’s can get a better big man than Andris by dealing Monta.
Nevertheless, trading for Iguodala is not a trade we want.I’m sorry, but this statement is bordering on ridiculous. If the opportunity to go from a 6’3" SG to a 6’7" & the 6’7" player is better than the 6’3" player you’d have to be an utter moron not to take it; Iggy almost doubles Monta’s rebounding rate, has a better assist to turnover ratio, has a higher career steal rate, has a better rate blocked shot rate, a higher TS% (true shooting %), doesn’t dominate the ball as often (based on usage rate).
I’d imagine that Iggy would be more likely to fetch you a quality big than Monta would.
by homer simpson on May 9, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
And also
Iggy is one of the best defensive wings in the league.
by Reverend_Randy on May 10, 2010 2:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Favors is basically Al Horford
Not nearly anything like AR.We shouldn’t touch our back court until the front court situation is dealt with
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
until the front court situation is dealt with
What needs to be dealt with, exactly, how do you propose we go about doing that, and why not fix a different problem if you have an opportunity?
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd argue our back court is not an issue as I have said before
I feel as though for the front court problem we either need to draft a post presence this year or trade for one. We need a tough low post guy and we could be a playoff team if healthy
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
I think our backcourt is decent, but there’s definite room to improve. We don’t have a single good wing defender among our bunch. Monta/Curry is still undersized and really….they’re not a special offensive backcourt or anything. Maggette’s best role is as a 6th man, which leaves a starting spot open for a good player. We can definitely use an upgrade to our backcourt. It might not be the most pressing issue or the one that can make the biggest impact, but we could definitely have a better backcourt.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
There is always room to improve
To me the guards are the last thing we need to improve considering our other holes
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
I think we should improve where we can
a Monta + stuff (one of our millions of swingmen) trade for Iguodala would do just that.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
fix ti if you can do it.
But thinking your gonna fix a problem based on any unproven draft pick is a roll of the dice and is fools gold. Fixing a problem or weaknessis best with a proven NBA commodity.
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 6, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
to say Favors = Horford is a bit presumptuous
He may be Horford-like, but are you arguing that he’s already ahead of Randolph on the depth chart?
Horford is a center
Meaning I’m putting him as a center and not a PF
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
But Horford is not really a center, he's a PF
I’m listening to Atlanta sports talk right now in the ATL, and they just can’t stop talking about how they need to acquire a star center to put next to Horford at the 4.
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
C….PF…..most guys fit either role. A big is a big, just like a wing is a wing.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
A big is a big
but a Randolph / Favors front court would be extremely unproven. It has huge upside, but my guess is most legitimate franchises would shy away from pairing them together. Their top end may be Atlanta Hawks-like as with Josh Smith and Al Horford. But that team is already seeing that they can’t compete when they run into true all-star centers. Granted, there aren’t many of those out there so I’m not totally opposed to Randolph / Favors, though I do think it would be a work in progress.
I’d rather go Johnson / Randolph / Biedrins. That 3,4,5 combo could board and swat shots.
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Randolph is a lot longer than Smith
who is kind of a 3 anyway. If the Hawks acquired a center, they could pull Williams off the bench and put Smoove a the 3.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
That'd be a bad idea.
Smoove has no range at all. They’d (theoretically) clog up the court. If they did that, maybe they could look to move Smoove to a Lamar Odom type role?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Smith plays much better at the 4. His skills are much more suited to it. One of the big reasons for his improved efficiency this season is he cut down on his jumpers by quite a bit – he’s just not at his best playing outside, especially against smaller quicker guys.
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions
True enough
I was thinking about kenntoe’s suggestion of having him move to a 6th man type Lamarr Odom role. I think Al Horford would probably take to that better.
by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
What would they do with Smith?
He’s obviously not a 3
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
they'd always hated Josh Smith down here
until this year, so the minute things go wrong (like getting rolled last night by the Magic) they revert back to wanting to trade Smith
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Is he like there Monta?
Half love him and half hate him? I think he’s one of the best 4’s out there
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
he really is the Monta of Hawks basketball
top 5 talent at his position but his attitude makes it easy to target him as the reason for everybody’s problems
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
this is why last year I proposed a Monta for Smith deal
and I still might be into that idea. Especially if Joe Johnson walks after the playoffs, why wouldn’t the Hawks be interested in Monta?
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
this is why last year I proposed a Monta for Smith deal
and I still might be into that idea.
Haha. Why don’t you ask Hawks fans if they’d be into that idea?
why wouldn’t the Hawks be interested in Monta?
They can be “interested” in Monta without wanting to trade their franchise player for him.
You think they’d be willing to take him off our hands for Jamal Crawford’s expiring contract?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
haha
Smith is not their franchise. It breaks down more like this:
1a. Johnson
1b. Horford
1c. Smith
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
As you point out, Johnson may be gone soon. Horford and Smith are the franchise. 1a and 1b, or vice versa, take your pick.
Are you arguing that Monta Ellis has anywhere near the value of Josh Smith — as a player or as a trade chit? If so, that would be pretty silly.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
yes, I am
Smith may have higher value, but to say Monta doesn’t have anywhere near the value is actually more “silly”
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, Smith is a better player than Monta, and plays a more valuable and harder to fidn position, Monta wasn’t very good this past season, and Smith is a better value from a contract standpoint. Smith is much, much, much more valuable than Monta.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I guess that depends on your definitions of “near.” Most reasonable people would agree that Monta is less valuable than Josh Smith, as a player and a trading piece. Mileage may vary on how much more valuable. I thought Missing Barry, who’s not generally prone to hyperbole, phrased it pretty accurately:
much, much, much more valuable
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Either way
i’d send Ellis and Wright to Atlanta for Smith
Only a dumb GM would trade Josh smith for Monta
However. Let’s hope they do :D
Smith is really really good
he was their best player, and led his position in blocks, steals, and assists. What’s Monta? The NBA turnover leader.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Smith may have higher value, but to say Monta doesn’t have anywhere near the value is actually more "silly"
Were you not around to hear the 2 trade offers the W’s got for Monta?
(1) Ray Allen for Monta & Vlad.
(2) OJ Mayo & Thabeet for Monta.
so, no, Monta doesn’t have anywhere near the value of Smith.
by homer simpson on May 9, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder why they don’t like him, he’s even a hometown kid….
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
Smith is not a “much, much, much more” valuable piece than Monta
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Would you be happier with just one “much”?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
You like much too much. =)
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
What? So Horford IS Favors now?
I think Favors could be what Horford is today, but he’s not him yet. Horford was more productive for a championship team. Did he ride that to the 3rd pick? yeah, but he’s justified it pretty well.
Let’s not count the Favors chicken before he hatches.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I suppose that it would be best for the team to resist the temptation to draft an Anthony Randolph 2.0 like Derrick Favors
IS Favors a lazy kid with a lot of raw talent? Thought he was a hard worker
Has Randolph permanently donned the label of lazy?
I think he’s still the PF of the future, he’s still really young
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn’t everyone raving about how hard a worker Randolph is as recently as the preseason….?
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Nelson claimed him to be early season
Thought he was too ‘big time’ to do the dirty work.
It may have looked that way, but there's no evidence.
It’s just us being subjective and rationalizing why he didn’t do as well or consistent as we all may have hoped.
We all got bit by the hype train that time. Just blame Bob, I do and I sleep better at night.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
well it doesn’t matter if you work hard, if you work on the wrong things. for example, ball-handling & 18-22 ft jumpers instead of watching film & working on your defensive rotations or your footwork & whatnot. i’m not saying that’s what is happening, just that working hard isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be (especially if you aren’t working smart).
by homer simpson on May 10, 2010 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions
i agree… when did Randolph become lazy to you?
by m0rr0w-f0r-3 on May 5, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
When he didn't improve one bit and reverted to his same old ways
AKA out of control. Living off soley athleticism.
IS Favors a lazy kid with a lot of raw talent?
Rudolf is not lazy , just crazy hyper. Once that pup matures he’ll be a big dog.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 5, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny, because California is known for the best weed.
Maybe that’s the answer? Someone give him a doctor’s note and some swisher sweets.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
they were burned?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Never was. It was Tijauna Red.
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 6, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever happened to "Panama Red"?
guess he rode his white horse Mescalito off into the sunset?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 6, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Your dream team is pretty weak.
My realistic dream team is:
Curry – Williams
Ellis – Morrow
Outlaw – Buki
Randolph – Wright
Favors – Turiaf
That team could be amazing for years to come!
Favors provides that low post defense we need, while being an efficient beast on offense. His rebounding numbers are pretty darn good, combined with AR’s rebounding our defense would be pretty strong down low. Outlaw is a decent defender, a good 3pnt shooter and would provide size.
We will see how Ellis worked out next season, if things aren’t too good we can package him with someone to get Iggy. (Vlad’s contract might be worth something?)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
um.....I'd still take the top starting five
Curry, Iguodala, Johnson, Randolph, Beidrins
or
Curry, Ellis, Outlaw, Randolph, Favors
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d take Favors over Andris any day. Andris has never shown an ability to increase his abilities really.
Favors is already a better defender than Andris, and is an athletic beast.
Also, there is NO CHANCE we get Iggy. You have to consider what the other team wants.
We would have a good shot at Outlaw in a sign and trade.
I’m not a big Wed Johnson fan. I think he will be very solid in the NBA, but I really don’t think his potential ceiling is very high. Favors on the other hand probably has one of the highest ceilings as far as the draft goes this season and is already a very good defender at least.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Favors hasn't even played a minute in the league he's already better than Andris?
The Sixers could show interest in Monta because they need scoring punch and by no means are set at the 2. Louis Williams is nice but faded last year, Thaddeus Young is their 3, and they’re definitely looking for new blood as Iguodala’s name has been floating around for awhile.
Outlaw would be nice but he doesn’t necessarily project as high as a guy like Wesley Johnson in my opinion. Maybe mildly better now but three years from now, I’m don’t know.
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Igoudala is better than Monta, though. Thaddeus Young also sucks. Really, the only talent on that entire team is Igoudala and Dalembert/Speights, but even Dalembert/Speights are just role player types (though Speights has a ton of potential)….god the Sixers are bad. Take it from someone who went to multiple Sixers games this past season….
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
they're terrible, but Iguodala and Dalembert/Speights are by no means untouchable
I think the Sixers will be entertaining all options this summer and might gladly go for a change of pace type of trade
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, and I think that’s exactly what they should do. That’s different than downgrading their talent, though.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Jrue Holliday
his second half was excellent. I posted on another thread. Second half of year .569 TS%, 39% from 3s. 5.2 apg in 30 mins. And he’s 19. I like his potential. His defense is awesome.
If they don’t trade Iguodala. Holiday + Iggy will be best defensive backcourt in NBA
True, Jrue did play better in the second half of the season. The difference between what he did in the games I went to at the beginning of the year and then the end was noticeable. I’m not sold on his defense, yet….we’ll see, he looks a bit lost at times.
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions
No Jrue love?
If Speights made it on your hope list, I’m surprised Doc Holiday didn’t.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Why is it we always wish for players that come form teams that suck.
Could it be the players are overrated? If not why does the team suck?
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 6, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
because you need more than a few above average players to really be good
Jrue improved late in the season, Speights doesn’t get many minutes. Iggy is their only truly productive player
by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Why is it we always wish for players that come form teams that suck.
cause there’s no way in hell we’re gonna get good players from good teams?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 6, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Andris has never shown an ability to increase his abilities really.
Definitely, though Andris is already a solid player right now. We don’t even know if Favors is that. I think it’s more than a little premature to say Favors is already a better defender than Andris, I think a lot of people are down on Andris’ D right now but he’s better than people give him credit for. Playing injured, with guards that practically step out of opponents way to let them get to the rim….that kind of thing can make your big man look bad. I also think Andris has shown some better on ball post D in the past – not “good” necessarily, but passable, and given how well he rebounds and how active he can be off ball, that’s not a bad defensive presence at all. It would also help him to be paired with another big that can provide any actual D at all. Basically, circumstances made Andris look worse than he is on D recently.
As for Favors…well, defense takes a while to learn. He hasn’t even played in the NBA yet, and has limited college experience. He might have the physical tools to be a better defender, and maybe it’s even likely he will….but I think it’s a little overboard to say he already is. Think about someone like Amare – for all his physical tools, he’s a pretty terrible defender.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
To me, the heart of the issue is what drafting Favors and keeping Bieds means for Randolph's future with the Warriors
Wright would virtually be pushed out of the rotation altogether
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
Whats to say Wright won’t be better than Randolph or Favors next year. Nellie isn’t going to gift any of those three 30 mpg.
You are right
I am overstating his capabilities, but most analysts agree that he is already an NBA ready defender. He has the physical tools to be a beast of a defender, but has already shown that he has the fundamentals to go along with it, at least at the collegiate level.
With a very poor team, and a duplicate player in Lawel on his team, he still managed to be a very efficient offensive player. I think with an actual point guard, which his team lacked, he could be a very good pick and roll player as well as a good player in the post. Defensively, I just don’t see how he could be worse than Andris. His fundamentals are far superior to Andris, as well as his physical tools. We will just have to see whether of not it translates to the NBA level, but the odds are in his favor(s).
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
definitely, the odds are he'll be a great player
a tough piece to pass up.
But consider the alternative: a player like Wesley Johnson at the 3 could net us 8.5 boards a game. Next to Randolph and Biedrins’ potentially double digit board numbers, I like the thought of an 8.5/10/10 front line
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
You think Wes could get 8.5 boards a game as a rookie?
After Gerald Wallace, the next highest rebounding 3 was Kevin Durant at 7.5 I believe. Kevin Durant is as long as a 4/5 and is probably as athletic as WJ.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Odds are he will be a great player…
Who’s floating those odds exactly, and how much did they get you to come out the pocket? Sorry, but odds are he will be nothing more than a bench warmer. That’s true for every draft pick. If you drafted a “great” player, you got lucky.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Odds? where are these odds. There is little relevance in your statement unless you are suggesting to trade the pick. Stats also show that rebounding translate to the nba more so than most statistics.
all draft picks suffer from the same probability odds except that the higher the pick the better the chance at being truely “great”. Additionally the Odds of the GSW trading for a “Great” player are probably less than the draft being that “we can’t attract top talent” – larry riley. They don’t want to come here because “we don’t have a histroy of winnning”.
His fundamentals are far superior to Andris
I think this might be my biggest disagreement. I’m a fan of Andris’ “fundamentals”, I really like him as a defender overall, I think his only problem (which is a big problem) is his lack of strength for on ball post D. That’s a concern, but I think he’s very good in every other aspect, and isn’t as bad as people think in the on ball post D aspect (or at least won’t be as bad in the future). Sometimes it’s just hard to see when he’s being attacked at the rim at will by opponents guards and basically has to guard the entire opponents team since nobody else is playing D and he happens to be the one closest to the rim….
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I also do see an argument for Favors, though. It could be that the chance to get an impact big is better than having a guy you know to be solid, but almost a sure bet to not be anything more than that.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll always gamble
on a young big man that shows infinite athleticism, dedication, and excellent fundamentals.
In poker terms…the pot odds are crazy good for Favors, can’t pass him up.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I’m not big on Favors if you’re looking for an impact big, personally. I can’t get over the “why didn’t he do more in collge” question. I guess I’m just looking for more out of someone with supposedly “excellent fundamentals”.
by Missing Barry on May 5, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Compare him to Randolph
Favor’s also had Junior big next to him who took away touches. Lawaii took 9.0 FGA a game to Favors 8.1. He was less efficient than Favors
Favors per 40 v. Randolph per 40
PPG 18.1/ 19.0
fg% 61.1/ 46.2
TS% .62/ .51
RPG- 12.3/ 10.4
APG- 1.5/ 1.5
Steals 1.3/ 1.4
Blocks- 3.0/ 2.8
Plus much better post defense (he could easily be better than every Warrior). People want to compare him to Amare. But I see more of a Horford
can’t pass him up…unless Cousins is available.
Damn, GSOM missed the rest of your sentence. I fixed it for you. = )
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
lol
I’d be very happy with either guy. As long as we are in the top 4, I don’t think the dubs will disappoint me.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I can't remember
But I remember some people not liking his PnR defense very much.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Who, Andris? I’m a fan of his PnR defense, not many C’s in the league have his mobility to defend away from the rim.
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
That's what I thought too.
He’s got the foot speed and mobility to hedge guards, but I think it had more to do with effort than anything else.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Andris P&R D...
I remember a while ago someone posted a breakdown of Andris’ P&R defense that was very critical. IIRC it did make some good points, but was a little too harsh IMHO. It’s been a while so I may be remembering wrong.
"I could be chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause."
Could it have been a piece by Atma? That would seem logical.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 9, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Rec'd
I like that observation of Biedrins. Really he’s not that far removed from a very good season. Ideally he heals up and goes back to 12-14 points and 12 rebounds a game. The glaring weakness is that we have no other big player that can help Andris down low. I love Andris, but let’s face it his history here can go down in one of two ways:
1. Out the door as yet another gone Warrior.
2. Add some talent with him. Andris is perfect for all the little things you want a guy to do. He’s just not going to be a go-to guy in the post. We need someone there, that’s one reason why I believe Demarcus Cousins is our destiny. But why attach labels now…
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
lets put it this way:
the top line boards better
by eastbayglory on May 5, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
wow I had a dream that happened
How are we proposing to get Iggy?
Would you consider taking Iggy with Brand as well? Monta + Mags + Radman 4 Brand + Iggy + there first round pick? Would you do it? We’d have 2 top 6 picks (in all likilhood.
I think Phili would do it
They probably would
but Brand is a bag of balls now. At least Maggette is productive.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Philly
would never do it though. I doubt they’d do it, even if you omit their lotto pick.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 5, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Phili would easily do it if we took Brand's albatross of a contract.
Pretty damn untradeable
Yeah,
but I doubt they would give away a potential top 6 pick just to dump a contract.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on May 6, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Brand's contract is just so bad
he’s not a productive player anymore. He makes about $16 M next year, but he’s toast. I think they would at least consider it, especially if they didn’t end up in the top 3.
by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
And on top of that, he still has 3 more years left on his contract….
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Brand's contract is just so bad
Yeah but I’d probably do it to get rid of Rad and then hope Brand returns to somewhere near his Clippers allstar form. Iggy and Curr-bury just seems better than Montay and Curr-bury to me. and if Brand can’t out perform Magette we still have the kids to try.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 6, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Rad's huge, expiring contract
isn’t worth wrecking our cap for the next 3 years.
by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, its only 7 million and it expires. To trade a decent expiring, for the worst contract besides Agent Zero doesn’t make sense.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 8, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Small forward is not our biggest weakness
Azubuike and Williams can do a solid job at the 3, and then they have Maggs and Morrow off the bench. They need a big (Cousins, Favors) more than anything.
That's a glut of back-up 3s in the NBA
I don’t think any position by committee is the answer.
SF: Azubuike, Williams, Maggette, Morrow
PF: Randolph, Favors, Wright
that looks like a lot of back-ups at the 3 and frustrated young talent at the 4.
I think I agree with you.
All of our 3’s seem so…one dimensional. They all do different things, but they’re all offensive players. Morrow the shooter, Buike the penetrator, ReggieWTF for his overall game.
We need a defender.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Buki's 3 point percentage is
almost as good as Morrows…
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
It is looking like this in the draft for us.
If we heve the 3rd or 4th pick then we draft a big Cousins/ Favors or vice versa. If we pick 5th or 6th then we have a choice of Johnson/Aminu.
Unless Johnson/Aminu is taken before Cousins or Favors but that is doubtful.
Also would be surprised if we took Aldrich, Monroe or Davis at 5th/6th.
Absolutely no need to trade either if get Favors or Cousins, especialy in the next couple of years.
They are both young. Cousins can rotate in with Biedrens and Turiaf and even at PF if we have more injurys with Wright and or AR. Same with Favors. With injurys etc. we can always use a big for the future and if/when Favors/Cousins becomes dominate then it is a good thing to worry about then, if Wright/AR/Biedrins become all stars then that is a good thing also. We can worry about trade if/when any of that happens, not in the near future.
I am always surprised after the last 2 years when I see people worried that we would have to immediately trade one of our bigs if we draft one. Doesnt make sense to me.
by Only In Fairfax on May 6, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
I am always surprised after the last 2 years when I see people worried that we would have to immediately trade one of our bigs if we draft one. Doesnt make sense to me.
Seriously, after the last two seasons, are we really concerned that there aren’t enough minutes to go around for anyone….?
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I think that come draft time
Monroe and Aminu could leap frog Johnson.
On my bigboard I have Johnson 7th.
Wall
Turner
Cousins
Favors
Monroe
Aminu
Johnson
Who cares.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
for me:
Wall
Turner
Cousins
Favors
Aminu
Johnson
Whiteside
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I have been wondering about Aminu compared to Johnson?
I like his length at SF and pysical tools. Wondering why the boards seem to have Johnson ahead of him. Would love to hear to Gsom analysis on that. I havent seen enough gms of Johnson/Aminu/Monroe. They all sound good.
by Only In Fairfax on May 6, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I watch a ton of college hoops and think i have a clear perspective on all these guys. Aminu….sigh. that’s my summary for him. More seriously, potential, potential, potential, another sigh. Occasionally he’ll do something great but in his second year i was hoping for much more. I see him as L.Deng at best. should be a good rebounder, defender, and glue guy but i will be SHOCKED if he ever is an all star. he’s very intriguing but really has no clear role or position. Will be hard to use as more than just a great glue guy. I’ll be VERY disappointed if we draft him.
I like Monroe a lot. He got much better in his soph campaign. Particularly more aggressive. Great decision making, great passing, good ball handling, increasing IQ, decent rebounder, slighly poor defensively but he does a lot of really good things especially considering his size and length. He left hand needs work but he’s developing some good post moves. We could use him but again, i’ll be shocked if he ever makes the all star game but he’ll be another great team mate.
Johnson is on another level than these guys though. Elite athletic ability coupled with a great shooting stroke. Quick release, high elevation and release point, good decision maker, does not hold the ball, explosive, 7 foot wing span, can finish from anywhere on the court. He’s an ideal SF, with a quick step. He should be a good defender but will probably have trouble when he’ s posted up. Otherwise his help defense is great, his aniticipation on passing lanes is good. He’s a special talent. He has as good a chance as anyone to be an all star, i’ll be shocked if he doesn’t go in the top 5. We need a top 5 pick bad.
More on my background. Follow college ball and have watched these guys all very closely.
Random but, Ed Davis has some how fallen off the radar. If that continues, he’s going to be this drafts big sleeper.
by Balance on May 6, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ed Davis
maybe because he got hurt and many thought he tanked the season?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I remember reading
many thought he stopped playing hard cause his team was crap and was going to declare regardless.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
I thought he played very hard, probably too hard.
last year he was good but in the same way that Favors was this year. Effecient but not “the man”. His rookie year he was a role player and i questioned his aggressiveness (as you say, he didn’t paly hard). But this year he was the go to guy. from what i saw he also suffered from a congested low post, playing with Thompson and guards that struggled. Everyone new much like GTech that they would pound the rock inside. Niether Favors or Davis had balanced teams this year and had to perform in a clogged paint.
I was actually impressed with his effort this year and think he progressed. Had UNC won more games he would still be all the hype. He’s good. He showed development on the box. did not shy from contact as he answer the call to play aggressiveness but…… he took it over the top. he often tried to force it, kind of like Monta Ellis this year. Personally i think they both thought they “had to” for their own respective reasons but are none the less very talented players that needed to pass more.
Davis is very long, young, athletic and promising. He has great hands an aggressive mentality, and a soft touch. he needs to develop his off hand, his jumper and his passing but he should be very good. He’s still raw so he’s hard to project but he’ll probably go somewhere in the lottery and be a good nba player in a couple years.
this draft is as deep as i can ever remeber. I would love to see the warriors land another first round pick.
Good report. Thanks.
I definitely think he still goes lottery. I don’t think this draft is deep past 14. Although we won’t know, just a hunch.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
One thing I’ll note, once you get past the first few picks and down to #5 or worse, I’m not sure you should be expecting an all-star caliber player, so it might be worthwhile to get a guy like Aminu who maybe has a lower ceiling but more of a chance to be a solid contributor (based on your description it sounds like that)…? My take on Ed Davis is he seems like one of those guys who doesn’t show the potential to ever turn into a big time player, but is a guy that does enough little things well that he should be a nice role player for someone, and if we’re talking late lottery….well, a good role player isn’t a bad pick at that position at all, especially one with Davis’ athleticism.
Question on your analysis of Johnson – given he played in ’Cuse’s zone, how do you think his defense will actually translate to the NBA? Even if he has the physical tools, it might take him a longer adjustment period than most…
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no way to be sure his defense will translate but i also see no reason it won’t. Same with Turner. I think they both have the quickness, length and tools nessassary to both be very good defenders on the next level playing man to man D. The combine drill will speak a lot to thier later quickness and there certainly could be a learning curve but I’m no more concern about their defensive transition into the NBA than I am anyone else in the draft. In fact, they both SHOULD be very good defenders from what i’ve seen. Turner probably a better on man guard and johnson has a great shot blocking ability. Every game i watched of both these guys left me very impressed.
Great thoughts, Balance. Thanks.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 6, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Rec'd Balance, Thx for your insight.
I watched a lot of Wall, Cousins and Turner/bit of Favors but not much of these guys.
by Only In Fairfax on May 6, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
don't hate the player(s)
hate the game(s)
It's just a plant, it grows in the earth, and if you happen to set it on fire there are some effects...
Hey, iStoner, any news on AR? How is he coming along?
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 5, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
UTAH needs height up front and more scoring
Based on the Faker games it seems like they need an athletic, solid C who is about 7 feet and someone other than DWill to get them numbers from the guard spot.
How about this scenario:
Trade Monta and Beidrins for Millsap and Ronnie Price
Draft Cousins
PG – Curry/ Ronnie Price
SG – Buike/Morrow
SF – Wiiliams and Maggs
PF – randolph and Millsap – depending on matchup
C – Cousins, Turiaf, Wright (seems he could play 4 and 5)
If Buike comes back playing like he did the start of this year, he may be a better SG than Monta was, better all around player and with Curry making decisions with the ball – Buike can get 20 a game.
Not that I like the ideal of trading with Utah, but they may be looking for changes in the offseason.
I really like Millsap
but that rotation is pretty weak at the 2 and 3. I like Buike, Morrow, Williams, and Maggs, but no good team has all four of those guys seeing considerable minutes.
Curry is the only impact guard in that rotation.
Also, Monta and Bieds for Millsap and Ronnie Price?!
Preposterous
why?
millsap is much better than beidrins and monta is much better than price. seems pretty even. plus monta gives us that others on the team already do and Utah has Boozer and AK47 when he gets back for PFs.
also, don’t judge guys based on their d-league status – judge them on their play as Warriors last year. Buike is RARELY talked about as a D-Leaguer. Cousins wouldn’t start right away, but maybe mid way thru season.
This lineup will allow guys to play natural positions and flourish with unselfish play and curry running the show.
Look at teams in the playoffs right now – usually a couple stars and others in supporting roles (except for Lakers). Curry and either Randolph or Cousins may be the two stars and others defer to them and provide support.
and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with D leaguers on the team. But I think we need to temper our optimism about players like Williams and Buike a little bit. I like them, but to plug them in as starters on a team aspiring for the playoffs is expecting too much. Maybe one of them, but not both, and definitely not with Cousins. Too many unproven commodities and bad match-ups.
One thing to remember is Buike and Williams still haven’t produced those impressive numbers as part of a winning squad. In my opinion they’re superfluous; on a strong team one of them would be the back-up 2.
exactly. championship teams have guys like Lamar Odom on their bench. we have a team full of good back ups.
i disagree
I’d put our group of non-stars against others currently in the playoffs (besides the Lakers)
My point is that we need to studs – curry and AR or maybe Cousins, Favors or Turner
The rest of the team needs to know their role and defer to the big two. With our team now I worry that we have multiple guys (AR, Curry, Monta, and whoever we draft, maybe even Maggette) who are either future stars or think they are stars.
If we had Millsap and Price they’d be role players- one of high quality – and we’d play better as a team with players playing natural spots. Just my hunch.
Also, I think Buike can be a Joe Johnson type – especially with Curry at point. Joe Johnson became a star in part because of playing with Nash.
Wow…..you’re really high on Buike. I’m not seeing it….
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think its far off. JJ is not that good of a player. He is a terrible rebounder, and an inefficient scorer. Not sure why he’s so highly thought of.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 8, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Buike fits in with a 6th man role. I’d be fine if he was a starter, just as long as he isn’t our top 4 players.
joe johnson and buike comparison
Similar in size and playing styles – neither very fast but both can be explosive around the basket. Buike a couple years younger.
Joe avg about 6 more points a game – but is more of a primary option. JJ known as a great shooter, but Buike has a better shooting percentage, both from three and the field. If curry leads the league in assists – which he might (at least top 3 or 4) then Buike may get about 4 more ppg.
Rebounding is about the same.
Joe gets more assists a game, by about 3 per game.
This is a part of Buike’s game that needs a lot of work.
I think if Buike can learn from pass happy Curry while producing numbers like he did before his injury then we may have poor man’s Joe Johnson at the two spot.
Of course, if we get Evan Turner – this is all moot!
This is a part of Buike’s game that needs a lot of work.
I think this is a bigger symptom that really highlights the biggest difference between them. Buike isn’t a guy that’s great at creating, whether that’s for himself or others. The difference between him and Johnson in this regard is huge. I’d expect Buike’s ‘s across the board to go way down if he was in a bigger role and expected to create more….in JJ’s last year in Phoenix, he shot over 47 from 3 (though looking at previous years, it’s a huge outlier to his earlier shooting %‘s)….Buike’s a nice role player, but I have a hard time seeing him being able to do more capably…..
by Missing Barry on May 7, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Joe Johnson is actually way huger
he’s listed 6’7" 240. At the combine, he measured 6’8" 225 in shoes. He’s the size of a legit 3.
by Reverend_Randy on May 7, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, johnson is huge. Also, couldn’t you say the same about JJ playing with curry as you are of KA? This is another example of stats gone wrong. KA should be a off the bench player and maybe an occasional starter. Even if KA didn’t injure himself he would not make anywhere close to the same money in an open market if he opt’d out this year like JJ is said to be doing. and KA is younger.
Sorry dude, but that is a horrible comparison and not fair to KA.
by Balance on May 8, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
oe Johnson became a star in part because of playing with Nash.
He’s never really been a big star, always under the radar. Too me I’d never ever consider Buike over JJ.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
How we may be able to get Iguodala
If we use Memphis as an intermediary. I think that the 76ers have a similar player to Ellis in Louis Williams. However, with Jrue Holiday at the 1, Iggy at the 2, and Thaddeus Young at the 3, they need a shooter. That means they might be excited by Mayo.
Memphis gets Ellis gives up Thabeet and Mayo. Philly gets Mayo and Thabeet. We get Iggy. From what I hear is that they want to move Iggy. It would give them a lot more flexibility and with the name like OJ Mayo, they could sell it to their fans.
From what I hear is that they want to move Iggy.
but they probably don’t want to move him for something worse. He’s a pretty good player to get for less than a star or a package of promising young talent or maybe high draft picks. how bad do you want him?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 5, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
a package of promising young talent
Doesn’t Mayo and Thabeet qualify? We can kick in Morrow, ReggieWTF, or even Turiaf if necessary.
Sixers get the outside sharpshooter they need and gain a whole crapload of financial flexibility. And the overall dollars work.
Well done, Pericles. Send to league offices for approval!
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2010 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn’t Mayo and Thabeet qualify? We can kick in Morrow, ReggieWTF, or even Turiaf if necessary.
Well, I don’t know a lot about philly’s roster but I look at it as Iggy is the best player in that trade so I’d want something equal in value for him instead of a collection of useful but flawed players? From the Dubs point of view it works cause we’d be distilling our talent.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 5, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
BTW
Just because Wes Johnson got 8 rebounds in college does not mean he will in the NBA. I think he played a stretch 4. You have to remember a lot of his numbers came from the fact he played in a zone. He may be good, but he is not the athletic freak Favors is.
I think it's also length
Wes Johnson will be playing a position that rarely has dominant rebounders.
by Reverend_Randy on May 5, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Only way we could possibly get Iggy
Is if we get Brand as well. I’m not sure if it would be worth it for us, but I could see:
Ellis + Maggs + Vlad for Iggy + Brand + filler (pick?)
I’m really not sure if I would be happy with the trade though…
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I'd never take Brand's deal
Ever.
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
Ya that’s what I was thinking…but I also would like to move Maggette, and we end up getting bigger.
But ya, this type of deal is kinda iffy for me. I guess if their pick is top 5 it would make up for it.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I'd take that deal
Iguodala is the best player in the trade for the Warriors’ rotation.
Brand’s deal is tough but a change of scenery could give him a boost. Either way, more bulk.
I don’t like the prospect of Radmo taking any minutes next year, so using him as filler for any deal would be nice.
on paper, I kind of like this team
Stephen Curry / C.J. or 2nd Rd Pick
Andre Iguodala/Kelenna Azubuike / Anthony Morrow
Wesley Johnson / Reggie Williams
Elton Brand / Anthony Randolph / Brandan Wright
Andris Biedrins / Ronnie Turiaf
by eastbayglory on May 6, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Bulk is good, if it leads to more production. Brand was pretty awful this past season, adding him for bulk doesn’t do anything to improve our team. Now, if he bounces back and plays much better, that’s a different story…..do you see a strong reason to think he will?
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Brand was a shell of his former self last season.
by caseycheesecake on May 6, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
it's hard to tell
his numbers have dipped ever since he arrived in Philly, so we can speculate about the situation.
I noticed his FG% improved this year, near his typical 50%, but he attempted much less shots next to a younger and very offensively oriented Marreese Speights. The rebound and block numbers were down (6.1 and 1.1) but so were the minutes. He posted a very impressive 1.1 steals.
He was relatively healthy this year, played 76 games at 30 minutes per.
So, who knows, a change of scenery, maybe a more prominent role again on a team fighting for the playoffs; playing alongside Biedrins and a more defensively oriented PF like Anthony Randolph. Who knows, maybe he could return to 18/8 with a steal and a couple blocks type of guy.
Or not, who knows, that’s why trades are gambles. Bottom line: Iggy is still the best player in that trade, so we win.
by eastbayglory on May 6, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't expect a 31 year old who has been in the league 11 years to make any huge improvements
especially when his fall off in production happened after a surgery.
by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya great!! Two crappy teams trade their best players to each other
What do we have then. Still two crappy teams! Lets talk about making the team better.
Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!
by StinkyFingers on May 6, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha, but at least their crappy team gets even crappier while ours gets better?
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Dreaming....
Golden State gets Andre Iguodala and Shane Battier
Houston gets Corey Maggette
Philadelphia gets Monta Ellis and Chase Budinger
PG- Stephen Curry/CJ Watson
SG- Andre Iguodala/Anthony Morrow/Reggie Williams
SF- Shane Battier/Kelenna Azubuike
PF- Anthony Randolph/Brandon Wright
C- Andris Biedrins/Derrick Favors/Ronny Turiaf
Missing: Vladamir Radmanovic, Anthony Tolliver, Chris Hunter, Devean George
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on May 6, 2010 11:47 AM PDT reply actions
I see talent
I also see log jam
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
In this improbable scenario...
maybe a log jam will bring about the best with a group of a few unproven players.
-Curry and Iguodala will get the majority of the minutes at their respective positions.
-The battle for the majority of the minutes at the PF position is intriguing. These two players can push each other to their potential. May the better player receive more minutes.
-At SF, Azubuike could learn a lot playing behind Battier and I could see Azubuike becoming the starter at some point during the season.
-At C, Biedrins needs to re-establish himself or he’ll find himself second fiddle to the rookie, Favors. Turiaf doesn’t need, nor does he want, more than 10 minutes a game, but he brings unbelievable energy off the bench.
-Unfortunately, either Morrow or Williams will find themselves on the bench more often than they’d like. Williams has a solid all around game (could possibly split his minutes at both SG and SF), while Morrow’s shooting and energy are perfect for a player coming off the bench. Take your pick.
In this scenario, I don’t see Tolliver or Hunter returning to the Warriors. George could be gone as well, but he brings solid energy and experience to the team.
Concerns: lack of a passing big; lack of a big who can step out for a mid range J (Randolph is closest); lack of a proven, experienced big for Favors to learn and play behind; Can this team gel together with so much competition for minutes?
With all this said, 99.99999…% (even less likely than Biedrins hitting a free throw) chance this never happens, but a great way to stimulate the half of the brain dedicated to basketball during our all too common extended off season.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on May 8, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't really like Battier
for this situation. 2 really good defensive wings, but one who is aging/past his prime.
by Reverend_Randy on May 8, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t see the Rockets giving up Battier for Maggette. Once Yao comes back, they have plenty of offensive options already. They pride themselves on defense anyway.
by caseycheesecake on May 6, 2010 11:50 AM PDT reply actions
Battier’s losing it, though. I don’t necessarily expect them to move him, but I honestly wouldn’t be shocked. As the late great Bill Walsh said, it’s better to get rid of a guy a year too early than a year too late. They might be able to maximize his trade value that way.
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Use the reply button dude
Battier is still pretty good, but he’s also getting old.
by Reverend_Randy on May 6, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, Battie is still a good defender, but how long till he’s on ESPN with Bruce Bowen?
by LarryLegendofOracle on May 6, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
We gotta trade one of our big contracts
E.G. Biedrins, Ellis or hopefully MAGGETTE.. Otherwise whoever we draft won’t have much of a role on the team.
I’m not worried about their role, but I wouldn’t mind getting rid of some salary…..
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Aquiring a proven SF with length who can defend and dumping Maggette's contracts would be the 2 best moves we could make. We could probably do it in 1 move, but
we have to give up young talent, take back a bad contract and probably swap picks. For instance:
Maggette, Biedrins and a swap in 1st round position with Philly for Iguodala and Brand or Dalembert.
Yeah, that doesn’t seem like a great deal. But we often fail to consider the other teams perspective. This is a deal that sees us dumping a bad contract() and a better draft pick(-) for a proven star(), a fallen star(-), and a fall in draft position(-). Philly loses their franchise player(-) and a bad contract(). On the flipside they take back a bad contract(-) that can score better than anyone they have(), a lottery pick (+), and Andris who isn’t really a plus or a minus, he’s more of a (?)
I wouldn’t be ecstatic if we made this trade, but I wouldn’t be pissed. We would keep Curry, Monta, and AR, which is a plus. We would get a tremendous compliment at the 3. That trade actually may give us the best starting lineup for positions 1-3.
However we lose some rebounding and D from our big men. We get a veteran and mentor who can help Randolph and BW grow. The coaching staff still likes to use AR and BW at the 5 sometimes as well, so that works.
Steph/CJ
Monta/Reggie/Morrow
Iguodala/Buike
Wright/Randolph/Tolliver
Brand(15 mpg)/Ronny/Randolph
We would be taking a huge gamble because we would be relying heavily on the health and growth of AR and BW. But we already are. We lose Biedrins and get Brand which is a slight minus, but we get Iguodala for Maggette, which is a HUGE plus.
Would Philly do it? If you’re Riley, would you? Is this a bad trade? For who? Am I stupid?
Send Maggette to the Thunder for Sefolosha and Collison.
Screw Collison, but gimme some good ol’ THABOOO!!!!
What we get:
Defense.
CAP ROOM!
No more annoying Maria Sharapova screeches from Mags when he gets fouled.
What the Thunder get:
Someone who can create their own shot very effectively besides Durant.
A veteran who can teach the youngsters a thing or two.
Anyone else up for this trade? Call me crazy, but I actually kind of like it. Works out salary wise too.
Why do they do that?
Answer : They don’t
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
I’m with dubzfan, of course I like that trade, the problem is, the Thunder don’t.
by Missing Barry on May 6, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
We shoulda got him for nothing.
What’d Chicago give up…a future 1st?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Oops I mean Thunder.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
That’s pretty much what he’s worth, imo. Whose minutes should we give to Thabo? He’s not really good at anything, and though he looks pretty good on D, it doesn’t really show up in the Thunder’s performance with him on the floor. Ignoring contracts, I’d rather have Maggette, Monta, Kelenna, Morrow, or Reggie Williams than Thabo. And that’s without considering the decent possibility that we end up with Turner or Johnson.
Yeah, I’d probably flip Maggette for him, just to get rid of the contract; but as others have said, why would the Thunder do that? They have enough elite talent where they can afford giving a few minutes a cheap glue guy who does very little, but plays half-decent D and doesn’t make a ton of mistakes. He’s like their Derek Fisher. If we had him, he’d be like … well, our Derek Fisher.
There will be no extra point!
Whose minutes should we give to Thabo?
Well….I guess we disagree pretty strongly here, as I’d give pretty much every wing we have’s minutes to Thabo. I’m sick of watching defensively deficient wings practically lay down a red carpet for their guy to get to the rim, and I do believe Thabo is an elite defensive wing.
By the way, 82games really needs to stop with the eFG% and go to TS%….
by Missing Barry on May 7, 2010 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah … he seems to me like another decent role player whose rep is seriously inflated because he gets minutes on a good team. I don’t see how he’s any better than a guy like Renaldo Balkman, who’s just as athletic, longer, a much better rebounder, and at least as active and aggressive on D.
As I said, I’d trade Maggs for him. I think he makes a ton of sense slotted between a long stud 1 like Westbrook and a long stud 3 like Durant. On our team, I don’t quite see the fit. I’m not sure he’s long enough to play 3 alongside Curry and Monta. He just seems to create as many holes as he fills. If we’re going to add a wing, I’d rather have one can play tough D but isn’t a total clownshoes on offense. Evan Turner, Wes Johnson, and Andre Iguodala come to mind…
There will be no extra point!
In terms of overall value, you could be right, though I really do believe in his defense and I’m not ready to buy any +/- numbers that say he doesn’t have an impact – it looked to me like his opponents eFG% was pretty low (though I’m not sure what "average for eFG% is, and obviously that’s missing FT’s)….so I do believe in his defense. Can’t find his combine measurements to tell you how big/long he is, exactly.
Basically, my thoughts are we need some wing defense. A guy like Balkman would be fine for that role, too, but we definitely need defense a lot more than offense at the moment, so I’d definitely be willing to sacrifice a lot of offense in a player for a lot of defense…..but in the end, talent trumps all, of course….
by Missing Barry on May 7, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I pretty much agree with you MB.
I get where you’re coming from too Sleep. But as a sum of it’s parts, it looks like our wings are all offense, lacking D type players.
I wouldn’t mind substituting a guy like Thabo, who’s main calling card is to defend, and preferably hit the open outside shot. We still have a lot of offense, plus a guy who can potentially match up with the best wings in the league. Let’s please not torture Monta and say, “well good luck on Durant, Roy and The Dragon (lol just kidding)…”
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Turiaf for Delfino?
Meh, I doubt Milwaukee would do it and as much as I would hate to see Turiaf go I’ve fallen in love with this guy.
I'd definitely do it
Delfino is exactly the kind of player we need at the 3. He’s a better rebounder than Turiaf, he’s a solid defender, and he can get hot from three. But no, Milwaukee would never do it
by eastbayglory on May 11, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Reaction in Atlanta after their 2nd round debacle might open something up
Joe Johnson is public enemy number one right now. What if we could pluck Joe Johnson in a sign and trade for Monta Ellis? At 6’7" Joe would bring some length to the SG position, plus he can share the ball. Steph Curry / Joe Johnson would be fun!!
If he is anywhere near the max deal
HELL NO!
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on May 11, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
If you don't like Monta
You won’t like JJ, he’s also a possible SF and could use him there a bit if we got him
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Attacking others only attacks yourself
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