Brandon Bass, Daniel Gibson and Cap Space.
by Dro50 on Jun 1, 2010 4:59 AM PDT
Email
PrintWarriors Need A "POWER" Forward, Magic Need Backup.
Sign and trade C.J. Watson to the Magic for Brandon Bass.
via farm5.static.flickr.com via farm3.static.flickr.com
Warriors Need Cap Space, Cavaliers Need A Band Aid.
Warriors Need A Center And A Small Forward. Players Need A Home.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
65 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The Warriors don’t need Bass, a half-decent 6’8" power forward who can’t rebound or slow down NBA 4s. If Bass were anything better than mediocre, the Magic wouldn’t be putting him on the block.
The Warriors don’t need cap space — who would sign here if we had some? — and trading Maggs alone doesn’t get them cap space anyway. Maggs makes only $5-6M a year more than Bass, for better production.
The Warriors don’t need Monroe, a mid-lottery college center who’s perceived as skilled but passive and soft. I mean, maybe Monroe will develop into a solid pro, but he’s almost certainly not going to fill any kind of need right away.
The Warriors don’t need Wright, a skinny wing player who has shown some flashes of productivity, but is still a pretty huge question mark. To date, Wright’s overall production has been worse than that of Maggette, Azubuike, or Reggie Williams.
The Warriors don’t need Gibson, a 6’2" shooting guard whose lone skill (3 pt shooting) is in the one area in which the team is demonstrably strong. Gibson’s basically a poor man’s CJ Watson, or a homeless man’s Morrow/Reggie Williams.
I file all of these under “moves for the sake of making moves” (except Monroe, whom I’d file under “draft pick for the sake of making a draft pick.”) I mean, I don’t expect you to get us LeBron, but as long as you’re making fantasy trades, can you at least get us one player who’s a clear upgrade over what we have?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 1, 2010 5:54 AM PDT reply actions 8 recs
I would much prefer a cj plus turiaf for Gortat
I would hate to get rid of turiaf but I think it is a great scenario for both teams
Gibson’s basically a poor man’s CJ Watson, or a homeless man’s Morrow/Reggie Williams.
hmmm
gibson career- 42.4% 3pt shooter
CJ career- 35.1% 3pt shooter
Career #s
TS%
Watson .556
Gibson .565
Pts/36
Watson 13.5
Gibson 11.7
Ast/36
Watson 3.8
Gibson 2.7
Reb/36
Watson 3.5
Gibson 2.9
Stl/36
Watson 1.9
Gibson 0.9
Even adjusting for pace: CJ > Boobie.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 1, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Looks like CJ has a slight edge. They seem like they bring very similiar things from their stats
by freerandolph on Jun 1, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
The differences are rather larger. The extra assists, rebounds and steals works out to almost 3 points per 36. That’s three points without any additional possessions. That’s a rather sizable difference.
How do we factor in defense?
Gibson is a much better defender. (By much better i mean he’s league average, CJ is god awful)
Just Looking at the numbers
Defensive +/-
Watson -6.04
Gibson -5.8
Blocks+Steals+Charge/40
Watson 2.84
Gibson 1.53
Opponent Stats
Watson 16.9 FGA, .532 eFG
Gibson 16.3 FGA, .433 eFG
Basically, opponents shoot much better against Watson, however he creates more possessions. They both have strong +/- defensive ratings, but that probably says more about who they play behind (Ellis, Curry, Williams) then their own abilities.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
League average defensive rating was 107.6
Boobie -107
CJ – 113
for reference. Toronto’s team defensive rating was 113.2 (worsti n NBA), Warriors 111.7
Portland ranked 15th in NBA with 107.1
That could well be true. At the same time: if we’re arguing about how close Boobie is to the level of CJ Watson … we don’t need Boobie.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 1, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Instead of Bass
The Warriors should through their MLE at Amir Johnson. I have no idea how much he’ll command on the open market, but it can’t be much. Guys like him are typically completely undervalued in the NBA. He’s an above average rebounder, an excellent defender, and a highly efficient, though extremely low volume, scorer. And he’s only 23.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
er...
they should “throw” their MLE at Johnson.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
I like Amir Johnson BUT
What does he give us Randolph and Wright don’t? I’d say we should pursue Amir, if we trade one of our bigs in a deal for a better player (like monta + X for iguodala)
You can't just assume your players will get hurt every year
If they are going to, we should just dump Randolph and Wright.
Haha. If we’re going to assume the Warriors will always be as injured as they were last season, we should all just kill ourselves now…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 1, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Reliability and...
Defense. Very few players have had as much impact on the defensive end over the past 3 seasons as Amir. If the Raptors would have played more Amir and less Bargianni, they probably would have snuck into the 8th spot in the east, and they definitely wouldn’t have been the historically bad defensive team that they were.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
For the record I like Amir
I just see him redundant with 4 bigs we have (+vlad rad). I am all for signing him if one is packaged for a better player. but for now we need to see what we have in Wright and Randolph who both have higher upside
If last year taught us anything
it’s that you can never have enough big men.
For the record, I think Amir is MUCH better than Mikki, Vlad, Tolliver, or Hunter, solidly better than Turiaf or 09-10 Biedrins, about equal to what we’ve seen from Wright or Randolph, and slightly less then 06-09 Biedrins.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
For sure. Amir Johnson is good. If we end up with Wes Johnson or another wing player, I’d love to have him as our 5th big. I’m guessing he could be had for the MLE?
If we end up with Cousins, or even a 3-4 like Aminu, he starts to look a bit superfluous, unless we swing a deal involving one of our four bigs.
Random minutes distribution, assuming
1. W. Johnson falls to us
2. A. Johnson for the MLE
3. A trade along the lines of Maggette for Delonte+Telfair
4. A trade along the lines of Monta+Morrow (through Memphis) for Iguodala
Curry 38 / D. West 8 / Telfair 2
Iguodala 30 / R. Williams 14 / D. West 4
W. Johnson 24 / Azubuike 16 / Iguodala 8
Randolph 18 / Wright 16 / A. Johnson 14
Biedrins 24 / Turiaf 12 / Randolph 12
There will be no extra point!
At what point does a rec’d comment go from green to super green?
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jun 1, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hi Lisa. Hi Super Nintendo Chalmers.
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 1, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Owen or Bret?
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Jun 1, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
cracked corn?
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Jun 1, 2010 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions
But i don't care.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 1, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Bass for CJ - but that's it
Brandon Bass is a warrior killer – he always gets a double-double on us. He can guard the 3 spot and the 4 at times. He is a solid role player who fills a need. Because of his size (6’8", 250lbs) he can help us against guys like Landry, Millsap and David West and other similar size guys that tend to kill the dubs.
CJ is great, plays with a ton of heart and is a solid backup, but we have others who can bring the ball up – reggie, monta, curry – and we could easily get a guy in the second round that brings what CJ gives us.
Brandon Bass is a warrior killer – he always gets a double-double on us
This is a terrible reason to try to acquire a player. Getting someone because he’s overperformed relative to how he does against the rest of the league is a recipe for disappointment. It’s a variant of the “Mark Portugal” syndrome, named after former MLB pitcher who used to dominate the Giants but was rather mediocre against the rest of the league. The Giants acquired him and, to rather predictable results, he was mediocre. Actually he was a bit worse, no longer having the Giants to beat up on a few times a year.
by jae on Jun 1, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
And it’s even worse since many, many players are “Warriors killers” because wer’e horrible defensively. All they’re really doing is taking advantage of a less talented team. It would be like the Astros acquiring a pitcher who shuts down their hitters….well yeah, when as a team you’re putting up a .230/.282/.325 line***, of course a pitcher is going to shut you down!
I cannot understate how laughably awful these numbers are. For a whole team to hit like that…..wow. Someone remind me again how Ed Wade, as a GM, is a professional and therefore obviously knows stuff about baseball and is qualified for his job?
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I am convinced that most of these guys (like Sabean, for example) are really good smooth-talkers and can convince just about anyone of their own competence. Really, advanced “people skills” are about the only way these guys would be expected to get (and retain!) these jobs in view of past performance.
Thing C
Hmmm, autoformatting took the second * out of my comment. Blah SBN.
Ha, the funny thing is, Sabean’s people skills might be worst than his “evaluating young players” skills….
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Formatting again! I had 3 stars, not one!
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he challenges people to take his job, if they point out his failures in the past, and in the present. He puts down the younger players when he says AAA is worse than AA, so he can’t really evaluate their accomplishments…blahblahblah.
Stephen Curry is the future.
We need to save this planet. Go Green, recycle, ride public transportation, use cantines. Anything you can do!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 1, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair, baseball isn't that cut and dry
1) Houston has alot of young hitters, and unlike basketball, baseball players can see a lot of growth from first year to say…. fifth
2) career productive hitters just took a nose dive, Berkman, Carlos Lee… these are guys every team would want. Even Bourne and Pence.
I mean Berkman and Lee are better (for there career) than every hitter in bay area for 1. Some weird things going on in Houston
Eh, when 34 year olds stop hitting, it’s generally not that surprising of a thing. It happens. Pence is decent, but Bourne really isn’t that good. The rest of the team sucks. Their young guys aren’t “talented” guys, they’ve had a dismal farm system for a while now. Ed Wade is a very, very bad GM. And I’m not sure you realize just how bad that line is. They’d have to improve significantly just to get to awful…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Eh, when 34 year olds stop hitting, it’s generally not that surprising of a thing. It happens.
Ussually thats about a hitters prime. I mean look at ARod, Soriano, Konerko, Glaus, tori hunter, jd drew, derek lee… and thats not getting into older ones like Jeter, Helton etc. Elite hitters generally keep there eye into there mid 30s. There are exceptions, but Berkman should be hitting…. fielding, different story..
Yes I do know how bad that line is, but it is still surprising. They should be hitting better than Giants just when you compare they have 4 hitters who are career above MLB average hitters.
Ussually thats about a hitters prime
Nah, prime is ~25-29 in baseball. Link to blog entry. Link to actual results. Guys that do well at age 34 are the exception, the thing is, most of the rest of the population has already been weeded out by that time. I’d call ARod’s prime 2000-2003, which is actually perfect – he’s had his two best years since then, but surrounded by years that weren’t as good as his sustained prime peak. Soriano’s best years are 2002 and 2006. Konerko was at his peak from 2004-2006, or 2002-2006 depending on how you view his subpar 2003…..
wRC+ is the stat I’m looking at, by the way. Anyways, 34 if old for baseball players. Look at the n-values in the results document. By age 34 almost 75% of the population is out of baseball. 34 is old for hitters.
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to be a jerk,
but none of these moves make too much sense.
1-Instead of trying to sign and trade for Bass, we should try and sign and trade for Ryan Anderson.
2-Gibson isnt very good but this trade does offer us salary relief. This is a trade I would do, just to unload Maggette for a smaller cap number.
3-I’m really down on Monroe, seems like a low risk, low reward guy. I would rather have a true center like Cole Aldrich than Monroe. (Side note, I think that either Johnson or Cousins will slide to us)
4-Why sign a multiple year contract for Dorrell Wright he just replicates a lot of our strenght. Save some cap room for next season when Azibuike and likely Turiaf will be free agents.
While all these moves are very realistically possible, its a symbol of the band aid quick fixes the Warriors have done for a decade. That team, even healthy is somewhere between 8-11 in the Western Conference and capped out.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jun 1, 2010 9:08 AM PDT reply actions
Why is Aldrich a “true” center and Monroe not? What makes you so down on Monroe?
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
If I may interject, I think Monroe is more of a power forward because he doesn’t have the strength that Aldrich has. I think Monroe is a better prospect, but he’s not a center like Aldrich.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 1, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
He did come in at 11 pounds heavier than Aldrich at the combine, and put up 5 more reps than Aldrich on the bench…..
by Missing Barry on Jun 1, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Aldrich played center for 3 years at Kansas and seems to be more fundamentally sound at the posisition than Monroe who bounced between the 2 posistions.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jun 1, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
When I’ve watched them play, Aldrich seems to have an easier time dealing with big guys than Monroe. Monroe uses his athleticism and is out near or above the elbows.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 1, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Eww Boobie Gibson? His contract is pretty bad dude. 3 more years for about $13 million total. Want a 3 point shooter whose at a decent size? Anthony Morrow. Also, why waive Delonte West? It my save us money, but he’s the combo guard that would be nice as a backup. He’d also be the best perimeter defender on this team. Bass seems like a decent backup, but I’d rather have Wright/Randolph in the rotation. D.Wright has no use to us.
P.S. You forgot to trade Monta….hehe
I think your finished lineup is a whole lot worse than the team we have now. West is the best player your plan has us acquiring and then you want to cut him? I dont get it. I also don’t really understand the fascination with Bass. I also don’t really understand the desire to have Boobie Gibson anywhere near the regular rotation.
Thing A
One thing...
People are forgetting the inevitable injuries that are an eternal recurrence for the Warriors. Viewed in this light getting a semi-big/physical player like Bass might be a good move. I’m not so fast to assume that Biedrins/Wright/Randolph and our draftee will be healthy for the entire season.
I actually very much like the Bass for CJ trade
the Warriors can get a backup point in the second round anyways. Bass has when given playing time beasted to such a high extent I got hard. His potential is scary. I like him a lot. Guy can score in the post, play good defense and rebound. He is very efficient, I think he would be great off the bench. Players like Bass off the bench take teams to the playoffs. Also I would really want to do that West and Gibson for Corey. I think the Warriors could replace Maggette with one of the following- Matt Barnes, Josh Chilldress, or Linas Kleiza. Barnes was great for the Warriors, and could come back seeing as he has not won a championship yet and has decided he wants to play where had most fun in the bay area. Chilldress and Kleiza want to come back in the NBA and would be great sfs for our team.
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
No backup PG's in this draft
Well, besides Jerome Randle.
This draft is mindblowingly bad when it comes to PG’s after the guy going #1.
We can't get Childress...
cause the Hawks still have his rights. With Johnson leaving, they’re gonna want to keep him.
Chilldress is a fantastic defender and rebounder for his position, a constant double double threat. He is very well rounded also. He is tall and lanky and would add size. Kleiza is an excellent 3 pt shooter, a key piece in Denvers playoff runs. Scored 41 once in NBA not Euro. Kleiza also is a great rebounder. Not a bad defender either. Also both are still young. Kleiza 25, Chilldress 26
"Who Wants some pudding pops?, delicious and nutritious!
I wanted Bass before...but not now. I love Boobie.
Bass was a favorite of mine even when he wasn’t doing much in New Orleans and I wanted us to pick him up before he went to Dallas and then again before he went to Orlando. Now though, our roster has way too many question marks for us to be adding free agents.
As for Gibson, I don’t see why we would trade Maggette for him. He isn’t a true point guard any more than C.J. Watson, and even less of a ball handler from what I’ve seen. I love him to death and he’s one of my favorite players in the NBA, but he doesn’t fit our team needs right now. He’s pretty much just a shooter, which we have plenty of. None of which are nearly as small or undersized as Boobie. Not to mention the fact that Maggette played well all season, and actually made a noticeable effort to keep himself within the offense and not take as many bad shots.
The only free agent we have that isn’t restricted is Devean George. He was surprisingly good for us this season, but we’re almost 100% not bringing him back. The other 4 free agents are C.J. Watson, Anthony Morrow, Chris Hunter, and Anthony Tolliver. I don’t which of these players that we’re likely to bring back, but I think there’s a possibility that all of them are Warriors in October.
Without them, here is our current roster:
Curry, Ellis, Williams, Azubuike, Maggette, Radmonovic, Randolph, Wright, Turiaf, Biedrins
Plus our selections in the draft. That gives us a total of 14 players and two draft selections. I think if any of the restricted free agents we have is going to be waived, it’s Chris Hunter. He’s a big body, but we only needed him because of injuries, and he doesn’t really have too much skill.
The biggest question here is who are we going to give minutes to. We have 10 already on contract for next season, and 4 others that we have the first right to bring back. We also have a top 10 pick with the #6. That’s at least 15 or 16 guys already that we have to decide where we want them or if we want them at all. Do we really need to complicate that even more by picking up two new players that our coaches know even less about? I don’t think that would be the best idea. Especially considering we have 3 power forwards already and Turiaf could play there, and Boobie is 4-5 million a year for a shooter when we could bring Morrow back for less.
I still like both players, but I think we need to figure out what we have at our disposal and who will play where and how many minutes before we go making any big tweaks to the roster. I’m all for cutting cost right now, but Maggette is actually earning his keep more than either Monta or Biedrins right now. Not saying he’s more valuable than Monta, but Beans was crap last season. If he doesn’t make a significant turnaround, it’d be best to find a way to dump him, and not Maggette.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"
Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Golden State Of Mind
Related FanShots on Golden State Of Mind
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Most Commented
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Finally, Shelvin Mack and Robert Pack have a dance dedicated to them (VIDEO)
- Create-a-Caption: Allen Iverson, superfan
- Kobe Bryant-themed Gotye cover song waxes wistful for ‘The Kobe That We Used to Know’ (VIDEO)
- After the city canceled their outdoor viewing party, Oklahoma City Thunder fans work to get it back
- Chris Kaman eats breakfast in room of death, plays Sasquatch, builds giant medieval weapon
