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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

Marcus Thompson provides some answers to the questions about why the Warriors selected Udoh.

"I just talked with a couple of people in the know from the Warriors about why they went with Baylor PF Ekpe Udoh over Georgetown center Greg Monroe. I tried to ask all of the questions I’ve seen, and get the answers that weren’t prepared for the press conference."

Thanks to Rated-R Superstar for posting this in the Fan Shots.

almost 2 years ago Gw090_tiny Fantasy Junkie 181 comments 1 recs  | 

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(Me again: Expect the Warriors to make a play for a Rudy Gay or Andre Iguodala. Or even a third-tier SF type, like John Salmons or Rudy Fernandez)

Sign and trade for Rudy Gay or straight trade for Iguodala. I expect them to offer Monta or Beans + Randolph. I’m unsure how I feel about either.

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 9:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Iggy yes. Gay? No. Fernandez isn’t all that great either.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like Ferdudy

but he’s so scrawny. Hardly an SF at all.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dangle Beans, Gaz and maybe a future 1st for Iggy

Getting Iggy without losing Monta would be ideal, and Philly probably has no need for Monta anyway.

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Memphis – Monta
Warriors – Iguodala
Sixers – Thabeet, Mayo, Udoh.

That’d be great.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Were not going to trade Udoh

And our deal with Memphis is basically dead, I say stop barking up that tree

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

So we trade Beans, whose value is very low right now and Gaz, the scrub, for Iguodala, one of the best all around players? I can totally see Philly going for this…..

Philly isn’t going to trade Iguodala for nothing. Why do that when there are other teams who can make a better offer? Is it that the Memphis deal is dead, or you just don’t want Monta gone?

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

No it's basically dead

From what we have heard about the deal Memphis wanted it to happen and we were not thrilled with what was offered and nothing has evolved from the deal and some reports say it’d dead. Billups at one point was offered for Beans so his value although is down it’s still there. Beans, Gaz (huge expiring) and a future 1st for Iggy, a filler and a 2nd sounds reasonable especially since they lack a center

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

but* it's ...

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Billups at one point was offered for Beans

This season? When exactly?

If it’s dead, we still won’t have enough. Plenty of teams can offer something better. Maybe you think Beans value is still there, but after this season, it’s very low. If we’re trading Beans, then we should trade Monta.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

When Billups was with Detroit

Which was not long ago at all. You may think we should trade Monta but its likely he stays, thats just the truth. Throwing in a future 1st for Philly could make it go through, but I wouldn’t trade the 2011 first

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

….So 2 seasons ago? Why even bring that up? That was Beans of 2 years ago, I’m talking about 09-10 season Beans. I know he was injured, but don’t say his value is the same when clearly it’s dropped. Now am I saying Beans won’t be the player he was? No, I think he’ll bounce back, but that doesn’t change his current value. Again, Gaz sucks, Beans value is low at the moment, and a future first won’t cut it. In addition, we already owe NJ a future 1st because of Marcus Williams….Anyways, no way Philly would deal Iguodala for Beans, Gaz, and a future 1st. They can get much higher value than that.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gaz's value is in his massive expiring contract

And if we keep pushing back the NJ deal to a certain point we don’t give them anything, not sure how exactly it works but that could happen. In the end if we somehow got a 3 or 4 way deal giving Philly what they wanted and us getting our guy it’s possible

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and if we included Monta in that 3 or 4 way deal to a different team. If somehow we only lose Biedrins and Gaz and gain Iguodala, I would visit Riley and applaud him. But, he hasn’t made a move that improved our team yet. Now, not saying Jackson, Crawford, Maggette trades were bad, I liked them. But we were dumping our contracts, not getting better as a team.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope

I remember the rumored trade that was supposed to land us Billups. Joe Dumars all but laughed at the idea.

by tom88gsw on Jun 25, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why o why does udoh have no upside

Please substantiate. Is it because of his age? It’s not like he’s a polished product right now. Is it because he’s not going to grow anymore? Most people stop growing by 20 anyways. Is it cuz his body is already fully developed? Cuz it’s not.

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 25, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the fact that he is 23 makes his potential (which is illussary with most players anyway) seem to be less.

And he probably really does have less potential too, it just that most players the Dubs could have drafted with “potential” wouldn’t have met their potential anyway…

Truthfully I’m still just really pissed off that the Dubs didn’t just lose their last three games, which would have given them the 5th instead of 6th pick. I would be so much more excited about Cuz than Udoh…

by freerandolph on Jun 25, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna quote Chad Ford on Udoh

“There are so many red flags with this guy. He’s 23 years old, first of all, which is typically, in the NBA draft, a signal that you may have peaked. If you’re dominating college ball, you should be dominating college ball, because age really matters at that level.”
He has no upside. He’s Wesley Johnson with less polish and talent, and duplicates a skillset we possess in two players that play the same position as him.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

So, one day it’s a firesale and the next day they’re looking for veterans and rookies with no upside?

The fire sale was reported by Jonathan Giovany @ Draft Express. It was a rumor.

And I’m with dso, the no upside claim had no legs other than pointing at his age. I’m sure there are metrics that may support this, but why can’t he just be a player that will improve as he puts in the years? “Upside” is overrated. Look at all the players on our team that have or had “upside.” They either never reached it or they’re somewhere else. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t draft for upside, but it just means that this particular year, they got a guy that brings something to the table immediately, according to Riley.

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right, but they don't really need anything brought to the table immediately.

Blowing it up was the right way to go, Udoh (who I like as a player) is already what he is at this point. He might refine his jumpshot, but he’ll never be a big time scorer or rebounder. All you can hope with him is that he adds weight, and becomes a solid post defender/weak side shotblocker.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

this link might help you get to know udoh a bit better

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2010/6/25/1536589/draft-express-scouting-report-ekpe

it has a lot of video links too, you should look em up. You might feel differently after

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 25, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know Udoh pretty well.

I watched a ton of his games at Baylor, and as I mentioned elsewhere, I really like his game. I think he’s an awful fit for GSW, though.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think he’s an awful fit for GSW, though.

Because of Don Nelson? Because we have two other PF’s?

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Both?

Udoh is a PF, purely. Nelson hates playing people over 6’6" apparently, and now he has three raw players to develop.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Udoh is a PF, purely. Nelson hates playing people over 6’6" apparently, and now he has three raw players to develop.

You watch a lot of Baylor games but apparently not enough Warrior games. Don Nelson will play people over 6’6" LOL. But that’s not the point. Don Nelson will be gone after this season, possibly before the season starts depending on ownership change.

You’re now saying Udoh is a raw player that needs to develop. Didn’t you confirm above that he’s a player that can help out immediately (but that’s not what the Warriors need)?

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Every rookie is raw.

Very few rookies are able to step in and help their teams win immediately. The NBA takes a long time to learn, especially defensively (which is where most of Udoh’s value is), so I don’t really expect him to be very good right away.

Also, my point about Nellie was that Randolph was stuck behind Maggette at PF at times last year (unless I’m remembering completely wrong), and he’s in love with small ball. Now he has a bunch of 4s who need time, is he going to give them that time?

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol wouldnt it be funny

If Nelson says F U riley and plays Azubuike at the 4. hahaha small ball..it’s GENIUS

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 25, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

There is a logjam at the PF position. I think we’ll see some sort of movement to alleviate that. Do I sound like Riley now? LOL

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Haha. That's the other scary part.

That they move Randolph or Wright for less than they’re worth because they need to clear up playing time.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's only a logjam if all three of those guys prove they deserve PT ...

… which is far from a given.

Furthermore, given that our backup C is currently Turiaf, I think sliding one of those guys over to play some C is perfectly reasonable.

by Ronaldinho on Jun 25, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

What, no faith in Gadzuric??? :)

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Udoh is a four.

He will end up playing out of position probably, but he’s a PF.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's a distinction without a difference.

In most systems, the job asked of a 4 and a 5 is no different.

by Ronaldinho on Jun 25, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

if Udoh knows

where to rotate on D, what shots to NOT take, and the other two guys don’t, he will play. If they all figure out how to play the game, it is a problem I can live with.

Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

by fotd on Jun 25, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Shaw-w-w-w-w-w-w-n BRADLEY

followed swiftly by Di-i-i-i-i-r-rkkk NOWITZKI

haha jk yah it’s hard to say how this will all turn out but I think Udoh is going to be good for us

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 25, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right, but they don’t really need anything brought to the table immediately. Blowing it up was the right way to go, Udoh (who I like as a player) is already what he is at this point. He might refine his jumpshot, but he’ll never be a big time scorer or rebounder. All you can hope with him is that he adds weight, and becomes a solid post defender/weak side shotblocker.

So, by drafting Monroe, this would have qualified as “blowing it up?”

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't necessarily think Monroe was the right pick either.

I think Udoh was a reach, and it was a reach at a position of strength (PF). That, in my mind, is the worst thing a team can do. Either take the BPA (I can’t honestly believe that they thought Udoh was the BPA, if that’s true, there’s a whole bunch of other problems) or reach for need. Reaching for a non-need is silly.

I would’ve preferred a trade.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would’ve preferred a trade.

At what cost though? Riley is quoted as saying he did try to trade, up and down, but the top 5 didn’t budge and the lower teams didn’t offer anything of value to the Warriors.

Sure, we would have all preferred a trade…if it made sense. Apparently, nothing made sense and there’s no way we can know for sure except take their word for it.

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

With all the movement last night I find it hard to believe nothing was available.

I think Riley just isn’t very good at his job. He said he wouldn’t budge off wanting a player (which is a bit silly), but I would’ve taken a slide down to the lower half of the first round and a future first perhaps.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

OR was he hamstrung by Cohan?

It’s pretty clear, unless we get a SUPERSTAR, Cohan has ZERO interest in taking on a penny more than he gives away.

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Riley just isn’t very good at his job.

This could very much be the case.

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Position of strength?
It is currently occupied by two young, skinny dudes with injury histories, one of which has not played for almost two years.

Non-need?
In what universe are our greatest needs not defense and rebounding?

Ground control to Major Tom! Come in! We’re losing you!!!!!

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Jun 25, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Plus if they get Gay

They’ll be getting a guy with a quesitonable motor when they were emphasing character guys in the draft.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 25, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why?

I’ve never heard that. Worst I heard was he was fed up with Memphis’ lack of motivation a year or two ago. So coming to the Cohan Search for 40 winner’s will make him happy!

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well shoot, like I said I can't exactly search for links right now

He is known as bit of a quiet goofball who often disappears in big games. He’s had that rap since college. He also is not known for working on his defense very much.

Sorry I am at work and I don’t want to start searching on sports websites right now because (a) server is slow and (b) a lot of them are blocked.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 25, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rudy

is a solid player. However, he does have some of the same ballhog issues that Maggette does. I would take him though for sure. He is much younger which is obviously a plus. He is much cheaper, but his contract is coming up very soon so he would require a pretty large amount of money.

by tom88gsw on Jun 25, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rudy

doesn’t do the one thing that Maggette does well, which is scoring efficiently. He is just as poor at everything else as Maggette.
He would most certainly cost us more money than Maggette did.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

There’s very, very little to recommend Gay, especially at the price he’s likely going to come at. Despite having several inches in height on Maggette, Gay was an inferior rebounder. He’s also an inferior playmaker. Gay is a bit better from beyond the arc, but doesn’t hit the 3 well enough to justify taking it. He’s more of an off-guard than SF because of his problems on the glass, but his very low assist rate doesn’t mesh with playing him there. I really don’t understand why anyone would want to break out the ink to sign him for a larger contract. He won’t make the team better. He could very well help prevent it from getting better in the future.

by jae on Jun 26, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

+1. Completely agree. I fail to see how Rudy Gay is a game changer.

by UncleCliffy on Jun 26, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

we shouldn't lock ourselves into another bad contract

there are several franchise-quality SF going at the top of the draft next year. And we all know that’s where we’re going to be at this time next year.

by Evanz on Jun 26, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think this rookie has upside. His midrange game has been improving, and I think it’ll continue to improve. He can also strengthen his core to defend bigger men. With his wingspan and weight, he should be able to defend centers.

Go Andris's free throw shooting!

by Naticus2 on Jun 25, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

if we consider John Salmon or Rudy Fernandez a SF, we’re in trouble. We already have two faux-SF’s in Azubuike and R. Williams.

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:11 AM PDT reply actions  

That is Don Nelson

Buike was always being used since he was the better defender than maggs and had the 3pt shot. I think everyone knows he is a 2.

by mosdl on Jun 25, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Far from certain

That Don Nelson will even be the coach.

by tom88gsw on Jun 25, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Salmons played his best basketball as a SF. When he made the switch to SG in Chicago, he started to play terribly.

Rudy on the other hand, is clearly a SG.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jun 25, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm actually appreciating some of the reasons now more

If we can make moves in the trade market. Really, this is the only way this pick makes sense. If we trade Randolph for Iguodala – and with an aging Elton Brand the move makes sense for the sixers we would improve our team.
Curry, Monta, Iggy, Wright/Udoh, Beans would be a more traditional lineup. It has three backcourt players who can all score, pass and grab boards (relative for their position), it has a more traditional PF who cares more about playing defense and being a scrappy hustle guy in Ekpe, and if Beans can return to form, a decent center.
Get in a new coach and have us play more traditionally and lets see what we can do.
I know losing AR would be huge, but he is a great grade chip right now, may or may not turn into a star, and is never going to be a good defender.

by tjmax on Jun 25, 2010 10:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Ya'know whats funny about Iggy?

If you look at the sixers fan page they don’t like him and think he is overpaid. He is to them what Maggs was to us, as far as fan opinion goes. I still want Iggy and actually dissagree, but it does make me a little scared of him, and also makes me wonder if fans are just really good at finding flaws in players instead of appreciating what they’ve got.

by freerandolph on Jun 25, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

grass is always greener

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 25, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think people's issue with Iggy is that he's paid like a number one option but doesn't score like one.

I think that’s a bit unfair, since he contributes in so many other ways. I’d have no problem with trading for him.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yup

Here he would not need to carry any sort of offensive load. I imagine he’d get 18-20 ppg eitherway. But I’d prefer he not even worry about it and be more of an assist, rebound, defense guy.

How many players in league have averaged over 17 ppg, 5 apg and 6 rpg over last 4 years with low turn overs and great D??

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

I love his game, and how he contributes in every facet. With plenty of people to carry the scoring load, an a ton of transition opportunities, I think he could thrive on GS.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 25, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Iggy is overpaid

But also better than every player on our roster. VERY complete and things he accells (defense, passing, rebounding) at we lack. Also he’s BEST in transition updown system and proven guy who can play 40 minutes a game 82 games a year. In GSW I imagine Iggy could have even more inflated stats.

His only real weakness is outside shooting in half court. A type of offense we rarely play, and something we don’t need. He slashes well, finishes well, gets to line well. I love Iggy on Warriors.

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd agree

But would Phili trade AR + expirings for Iggy? Actually would Warriors. I get feeling they want expirings to expire. More like Monta + AR…

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

why not?

Brand is their PF and he is aging and injured. I think Sixers would be crazy not to make this move. Plus, Collins is the type of coach that AR needs, a no nonsense coach who is highly respected and will allow AR to play to his strengths. To be honest, a forward combo or Turner and Randolph could make some real noise.

by tjmax on Jun 25, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

i want to keep Monta in this scenario

Trade AR and others (Morrow? Reggie?) and try to get Iggy. I know Collins likes Iggy but Turner will provide them with much of what Iggy does and they need more insurance at the PF spot.

by tjmax on Jun 25, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Biedrins + Randolph for Iggy sounds like it would help both teams

but they’d probably try to sneak in brand’s contract somehow

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 25, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

NO way

No way i trade both Beans and Randolph. We don’t need to give 2 bigs away in any trade unless it nets us 1 better big.

The way I see it we got 5 bigs I wanna see play + 2 more who can play (rad + Gadzuric) if needed.

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

I just did trade machine

Randolph, Monta + Vlad for Iguodala + Lou Williams (probably what they’d want to do. Get rid of his contract as Jrue Holiday emerged).

Warriors +6 wins
Sixers -11 wins

Not that trade Machine is be all end all, but Iggy is a winning basketball player

by tafkasam on Jun 25, 2010 10:40 AM PDT reply actions  

I'd rather

not give up Randolph. He is still incredibly young and could possibly end up being one of our building blocks for the future. Don Nelson just needs to go!

by tom88gsw on Jun 25, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really like MT2’s article, but i just have to laugh about foxsports, espn, all these different sites just saying how poorly the warriors’ pick was, it’s amazing

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 10:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Ric Bucher said it was a great, smart pick (on KNBR with Radnich).

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, then there you go...

Foxsports was just too funny saying that the warriors were lucky NOT to have a second round pick since they’d just mess it up. ANYWAY, i’m fine with the pick after a day of thinking about it, they should and will make a trade, the SF is a need obviously

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

There appears to be alot of support from the so called experts

Only time will tell. I do find it funny how most of the fans on this Website say they wish the Warriors played some defense and the minute the club steps up to draft a defensive minded player everyone screams bloody murder.

Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!

by StinkyFingers on Jun 25, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, i don’t get it, The warriors really needed to make a change in their approach, and they drafted someone who can play defense, and all the sudden nobody likes it at all

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

The warriors really needed to make a change in their approach, and they drafted someone who can play defense, and all the sudden nobody likes it at all

shot blocking is not defense, it’s trying to close the barn door as the horses are running out. Say Queensbridge

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 25, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, either way, i'm still holding judgment

still gonna wait and see what happens when the season begins, might be just me

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

go back to kicking your dog. They could have drafted Cousins and you would moaning with your freakin negative attitude.

Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!

by StinkyFingers on Jun 25, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Say Queensbridge

Hi Mr. Artest =)

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was disappointed.

Well, more like punched in the stomach after the Kings took Cousins. Not surprised, just sore nonetheless. That pick made all the other picks less attractive. Wouldn’t have been overly excited for any one at the unenviable 6th spot.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Jun 25, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

i mean, put it this way, what pick at 6

would have made you happy? And yea, i’m pretty sure anybody here would feel overjoyed with Cousins falling to 6, but it’d be interesting to hear just who would have taken over someone like Udoh or Monroe

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

In that scenario

I would be tempted to trade down a couple spots and take Udoh if he was there, but my preference would’ve been Paul George.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Jun 25, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

All the choices at 6 ranged from bleh, to flawed, to unheard of.

by Billy Frijoles on Jun 25, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, we addressed a need. I guess in the draft, you’re not supposed to do that, but according to Riley, they addressed a need and got the BPA.

Also, don’t forget that we not only need a SF but a back-up PG. Watson is all but gone, IMO.

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yea, for sure, Watson’s gone, they need a SF and a back up PG, and i’m assuming there’s going to be a trade with Biedrins and/or Monta? just due to the abundance of PF and C?

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Reggie can probably backup Curry

Or we can always get someone from the D-league (like CJ).

It sure seems we will be trying to trade for a SF.

But it seems we got a defensive minded person, which is a start

by mosdl on Jun 25, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

monta can play point

I’d say we need a big 2 guard or a small forward more than a PG

by tjmax on Jun 25, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

monta can play point

No he can’t. That was a miserable failure.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

+1

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

My Favorite Part of the Article

“we just didn’t want”…..i’m so glad that our GM drafted what he wanted on his way out of office. That’s smart.

by Balance on Jun 25, 2010 11:04 AM PDT reply actions  

Every sports writers’ issue with the warriors is all concerning the issue of not drafting somebody that was top 10 talent, also they lost maggette who is a scorer and that they need that

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:11 AM PDT reply actions  

top 10 in scoring!!! WHAT NOW DUDE???????

but there was some other element of basketball i think

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not to beat a dead horse, but in light of this draft — specifically, Turner at #2 and Udoh at #6 — some variation on the theme of Monta-plus-one of the bigs, via Memphis, for Iguodala really HAS to happen now. The latest variation I dreamt up:

Memphis gets: Ellis and (Pride of Tennessee) Brandan Wright
Philly gets: Mayo and Dalembert
GS gets: Iguodala

Memphis gets two beloved local prep school legends with ridiculous offensive skills; plus a much better return on Mayo+Thabeet than the rumored midseason deal.

Philly hands the keys of the franchise to Turner, gets a needed perimeter shooter in Mayo, and rids themselves of one of their two big salary albatrosses. Yeah, Iggy’s the best player in this deal, but he duplicates Turner’s game. And somehow, despite his obvious plusses, every article I read about him seems to involve a variation on the phrase “if only they can get someone to eat his terrible contract.” Hey Philly, over heeeere!

And man, from our perspective: the arrival of Iguodala and Udoh really makes it look like we’ve made a STRONG offseason commitment to D.

Curry
Reggie / Morrow
Iguodala / Azubuike
Randolph / Udoh
Biedrins / Turiaf

Somebody make this happen. Warriors Nation deserves this lineup.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 25, 2010 11:51 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

How does Philly get Dalembert when he was just traded to Sacramento?

Confident Marco Belinelli supporter

by Doctor Kajita on Jun 25, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Whoops, Dalembert = Thabeet. Same player, basically, except Thabeet’s younger and a whole lot cheaper. As it stands, their frontcourt is an absolute disaster, especially defensively. Thabeet helps stop the bleeding.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 25, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

You know what i had no idea, was that Brandan Wright and Michael Oher played against eachother in high school

His name is Bond, Brock Bond, and his adopted father? ME, any questions?

by PiKAgiant on Jun 25, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wright

vs Marc Gasol too.

Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

by fotd on Jun 25, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

How does Philly get Dalembert when he was just traded to Sacramento?

I think he means Thabeet.

Yeah, Iggy’s the best player in this deal.

I think you are seriously overrating Iguodala’s skills. How many 76ers games did you watch last season? How many big shots did you see Iguodala hit? Why were 76ers fans calling for his head?

the arrival of Iguodala and Udoh really makes it look like we’ve made a STRONG offseason commitment to D

Udoh most certainly is a defensive player. Iguodala? Not remotely. Why does everyone think he plays D? Because he looks like he should?

by UncleCliffy on Jun 25, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Big shots

“How many big shots did you see Iguodala hit?”

That’s a really bad way of judging a player. The Sixers were really bad, which means that there weren’t a lot of opportunities for “big shots.”

Iggy is a good player. He just had his career-worse season from a TS%, which is a slight cause for concern, but his career average is moderately efficient. He also rebounds his position well and doesn’t turn the ball over a lot for how much he handles the ball and how many assists he gets.

He’s not a superstar, he’s not a scoring machine, but he seems to be a pretty good all-around player. Given his salary, it sounds like Sixer fans complaints about him are similar to ours with Mags – being paid too much for what he does, maybe unreasonable expectations.

by Ronaldinho on Jun 25, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s a really bad way of judging a player. The Sixers were really bad, which means that there weren’t a lot of opportunities for "big shots."

Actually, they weren’t. Their record was, and they looked brutal at times, but they looked like a playoff team at others, including some big wins on the road. Their roster is not bad (even before Evan Turner). Their coaching last year was abysmal. When Elton Brand (on offense) and Sammy D (on defense) felt like playing, they were an extremely competitive team. But they showed up for every other game despite making $18M or whatever. That’s a problem.

Given his salary, it sounds like Sixer fans complaints about him are similar to ours with Mags – being paid too much for what he does, maybe unreasonable expectations.

Then why go acquire another player who takes up a large amount of the cap just so we can complain a year from now that he’s the new Maggette? I think the comparisons between Iggy and Corey are fair. They don’t play the same, but they seem to have the same result on W’s and L’s. Maybe the expectations were unreasonable for Iggy in Philly, but if he’s making $10M+ and not living up to his contract, that’s not a player I’m interested in, especially given the Warriors ownership situation.

by UncleCliffy on Jun 25, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Their record was, and they looked brutal at times, but they looked like a playoff team at others, including some big wins on the road.

The same could be said of us … and let’s not kid ourselves, we were a really bad team last year.

Only the very worst teams don’t occasionally stun a top playoff team and don’t occasionally beat a good team on the road.

by Ronaldinho on Jun 25, 2010 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you are seriously overrating Iguodala’s skills.

Haha. Yes, how silly of me to imagine that a player who has averaged a career 16.0 pts / 5.8 reb / 4.6 ast in 38 minutes with a .560 TS and 2:1 ast/TO ratio, while basically never getting injured, is a more valuable player than Monta Ellis or OJ Mayo.

How many 76ers games did you watch last season?

Hm. Probably about a game and a half total? And maybe a dozen or so over his career. Do you have some information you’d like to impart from observing him more closely?

How many big shots did you see Iguodala hit?

Well, very few, given the small sample size. But I’m going to hang my hat on his solid .560 career TS% rather than your silly rhetorical question, especially since his shooting would be one of the last reasons we’d be acquiring him. Somehow, with Curry, Morrow, Reggie, and Kelenna in the fold, I think we’re pretty OK on that front.

Why were 76ers fans calling for his head?

That’s a good question. Cos of the pricy contract? Cos the Sixers haven’t been very good (though they’ve generally better when Iggy’s been on court)? Cos Philly fans, as a general rule, are a mean, fickle and cynical lot? Again, it’s the fact that he doesn’t seem that beloved, by the fans or the FO, that makes prying him seem somewhat feasible.

Why does everyone think he plays D? Because he looks like he should?

Now this is a good question. I’d guess that at some level, everyone thinks he plays good D … because everyone thinks he plays D. That’s the interesting thing about a defensive rep. At the same time, he certainly looks the part physically (rugged, quick feet, long arms), has solid steal numbers, and generally makes his team a lot better when he’s on court. What makes you say he’s “not remotely” a defensive player? Have you watched him enough to say this with confidence?

Heck, even if you downgrade Iggy’s defensive ability from good to “average,” it’s hard to imagine he’s not a huge upgrade from last year’s sorry crop of perimeter defenders (Monta, Morrow, Williams, Maggs) based on his physical tools alone.

Are you actually saying, as a Ws fan, that you think this a raw deal for the Ws? If so, that only makes me more excited about its (remote) chances of happening…

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 25, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Haha. Yes, how silly of me to imagine that a player who has averaged a career 16.0 pts / 5.8 reb / 4.6 ast in 38 minutes with a .560 TS and 2:1 ast/TO ratio, while basically never getting injured, is a more valuable player than Monta Ellis or OJ Mayo.

I’m not talking about Monta Ellis or OJ Mayo. You are. You are the one who designed the elaborate trade (a pretty good one, I may add) because “Iguodala really HAS to happen now.” I’m just pointing out that I do not really care for Iggy.

Hm. Probably about a game and a half total? And maybe a dozen or so over his career. Do you have some information you’d like to impart from observing him more closely?

And I’m guessing that one game you did watch was @ Oakland, when Philly played very well (IIRC)? I’ll impart a little info, but trust me, I’m no Iggy expert.

When I was home visiting the parents, I was watching the local Philly Comcast channel. They were doing a pre-game roundtable live with the local media, and the host asked the following question: “Since Charles Barkley was traded in 1992, who has been the second best 76er?” So, obviously Allen Iverson is number one on that list, but who is second? All four reporters just had completely blank stares. After an awkward silence, (I think) Dei Lynam stuttered, “Well….I guess…it’s gotta be Iggy….right?” All of the other reporters kinda started nodding their heads, and you could just tell they were all thinking the same thing. Wow, really? It’s Iggy? How can that be? What does this mean? There’s no one else it could be. So, yep, it’s Iggy.

It was quite a revealing back-and-forth. It revealed a lot about the Sixers, about Iggy, and and about the perception that there have been some good Sixers teams in the past 15 years.

Well, very few, given the small sample size. But I’m going to hang my hat on his solid .560 career TS% rather than your silly rhetorical question, especially since his shooting would be one of the last reasons we’d be acquiring him. Somehow, with Curry, Morrow, Reggie, and Kelenna in the fold, I think we’re pretty OK on that front.

Not too silly, Sleepy. Why would you arrange a complicated trade netting a long-term salary unless you thought he was going to hit big shots? I mean, if the W’s have the ball, down 1 or 2 with 15 seconds left on the clock, who do you think is going to take the shot? Epke Udoh? Andris Biedrins? Reggie Williams? No. Iggy is taking it.

With most players, Sleepy, I agree, my comment might be a bit rhetorical. But when a team with a very fluid and convoluted ownership/management situation wants to acquire a long term salary, there better be a really good reason.

Cos of the pricy contract? Cos the Sixers haven’t been very good (though they’ve generally better when Iggy’s been on court)? Cos Philly fans, as a general rule, are a mean, fickle and cynical lot? Again, it’s the fact that he doesn’t seem that beloved, by the fans or the FO, that makes prying him seem somewhat feasible.

I agree that prying a player from a team in flux is generally a good idea. That’s one reason I think that Luol Deng is a possibility, b/c the Bulls are so concentrated on LBJ/Bosh/Wade etc right now.

But Iggy just isn’t the right guy. He’s built like Maggette but doesn’t like to stay in front of his man. He gambles a bunch for steals. He disappears for long stretches of games. His shooting is solid, it is true, but I think he’s aided by the D collapsing on Elton Brand, which gives him open looks. No one collapses on the W’s front line.

Iggy takes a lot of jumpers. He seems to pick up his intensity when the jumpers are falling, but when they are not, he’s a sieve. The refs don’t give him a lot of respect on his drives, which look a bit slow in comparison to someone like Corey, so I think that’s why he settles from long distance. His dunks are spectacular for sure but alas, they count as only two points.

Most worrisome, he has a history in Philly of missing game tying or game winning jumpers. For the couple times he’s made them (accompanied with the chest beating routine and Kobe Bryant Jaw look), he’s got a ton of misses. And they always do seem to be jumpers or extremely difficult leaners.

Are you actually saying, as a Ws fan, that you think this a raw deal for the Ws? If so, that only makes me more excited about its (remote) chances of happening…

No, not really. Don’t get all excited.

I don’t think the W’s should make any deal. They must sell first. They cannot acquire a big contract of a mediocre player before the sale.

But if they do deal, and they do go after a SF with a hefty contract, I’d go after Luol Deng or Danny Granger first. While neither of those two is a defensive stalwart, they bring plenty to the table in terms of experience, size, strength, and scoring ability and most certainly outweigh trading for Iguodala. And both the Pacers and Bulls are in flux.

by UncleCliffy on Jun 25, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I mean, if the W’s have the ball, down 1 or 2 with 15 seconds left on the clock, who do you think is going to take the shot? Epke Udoh? Andris Biedrins? Reggie Williams? No. Iggy is taking it.

Yeah, for last second shots, Nellie will definitely bench guys like Curry, Morrow, Kelenna. Furthermore, 2 points is two points at the beginning or the end of the game. Iggy’s above average scoring efficiency will manifest in more opportunities at last second shots for us and fewer opportunities at last second shots for our opponents. That is worth multiple games. Even granting you that he’s not good at “hitting big shots,” I’ll take that trade off any day.

His shooting is solid, it is true, but I think he’s aided by the D collapsing on Elton Brand

And yet, somehow his scoring efficiency has not been effected by Brand’s presence. You’re just postulating without any evidence. You’re using your intuition.

he has a history in Philly of missing game tying or game winning jumpers.

In Philly, he was their only option. They could have given the ball to Lou Williams (yuck), Thaddeus Young, Elton Brand… yeah, none of these guys are able to create their own shot… or even keep defenders honest. As a team, they shot 34% from 3 point range. In a Warriors uni, he’ll have much better offensive teammates who are not only capable of running the team, but also can provide a serious 3 point threat that keeps help defenders honest. Give Iggy the ball in a P&R, with Curry, Morrow, and Kelenna camped out at the 3 point line for the kick out, and I guarantee you’ll get a good look.

But if they do deal, and they do go after a SF with a hefty contract, I’d go after Luol Deng or Danny Granger first.

These two are both fine options, but how, pray tell do you suggest we acquire them?

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 25, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Even granting you that he’s not good at "hitting big shots," I’ll take that trade off any day.

 Haha, But don’t you know the last BIG shot counts for more points than all the other little shots?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 25, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Monta’s behind-the-back trick shot from the exit aisle has to be worth 17 points at least. And “Ellis to the Rim!” was good for 43.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 25, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm curious as to how it counts for more points

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 25, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm curious as to how it counts for more points?

 If it din’t why would they be worried about him making the BIG shot versus all the other shots?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 26, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not talking about Monta Ellis or OJ Mayo. You are.

Dude, pay attention? I said Iguodala was the best player in this deal. You said, in direct reply to this statement, that I was “seriously overrating his skills.” Are you implying Wright or Thabeet is the best player in the deal? Or do you just not read or write very carefully?

When I was home visiting the parents … [snip]

Haha. So you give me the standard rhetorical finger wag for not watching the games, and then reveal that your opinion on the matter is based a bunch of talking heads shooting the breeze on TV? Well done.

Why would you arrange a complicated trade netting a long-term salary unless you thought he was going to hit big shots?

Because he does a lot of other things really well, including making shots, “big” or not, at a reasonably good clip? And because the long term salary we’d be netting only amounts to a couple mil a year more than the long-term salary we’d be getting rid of? And because the long-term salary we’d be getting rid of is attached to a player who’s worse at hitting shots, big or otherwise, than Iguodala?

If the W’s have the ball, down 1 or 2 with 15 seconds left on the clock, who do you think is going to take the shot? Epke Udoh? Andris Biedrins? Reggie Williams? No. Iggy is taking it.

Haha. Sorry man, I find this type of rhetorical question silly in the first place, but it’s especially hard to take seriously when you conveniently omit our two best shooters, Curry and Morrow.

But Iggy just isn’t the right guy [snip]

These are all fair observations, but for me they don’t negate the clear upgrade we’d see by turning Monta into Iguodala. Sure, we could hold out for another guy, but I how many other guys are worth holding out for, and how many of them are available? Deng … meh, better rebounder than Iguodala, but a less efficient scorer; and more importantly, has no ballhandling/passing/playmaking skills to speak of, which would leave poor Steph as our only initiator (assuming we let go of Monta). Granger, same issue with the passing, though his length and efficient scoring may make up for it. But why would Indiana ever consider giving up Granger for Monta Ellis?

I don’t think the W’s should make any deal. They must sell first. They cannot acquire a big contract of a mediocre player before the sale.

This could well be true, but when did I say the trade had to happen before a sale? And again: the" big contract of a mediocre player" we’d be acquiring would be only marginally bigger than the one we’d be shipping off. I doubt our new owner is going to have much of an issue with $2M a year one way or the other.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 25, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, pay attention? I said Iguodala was the best player in this deal. You said, in direct reply to this statement, that I was "seriously overrating his skills." Are you implying Wright or Thabeet is the best player in the deal? Or do you just not read or write very carefully?

Wait a second. You proposed a deal in which the W’s ship out Monta and Brandan Wright. They get back Iguodala.

I said, hold on, you are overrating his abilities. He’s not that good. (We are shipping off two talents and receiving one)

You then said he is better than Monta or OJ.

I said that I was not comparing them.

You then say I’m not paying attention and he’s the best player in the deal.

Sleepy, just because I think you might be overrating Iggy’s skills, I never said he was better or worse than Monta or OJ. I do not think he is worth Monta and Brandan Wright; that is what we are talking about, right?

And Is it possible you have “grass is greener” syndrome here?

Haha. So you give me the standard rhetorical finger wag for not watching the games, and then reveal that your opinion on the matter is based a bunch of talking heads shooting the breeze on TV? Well done.

It was an anecdote. A revealing one. I love how you can’t just say “interesting” and move on. Not everything has to be quantitative.

Because he does a lot of other things really well, including making shots, "big" or not, at a reasonably good clip?

Who was better last year “at hitting shots, big or otherwise,” Iggy or Corey?? Clearly, there is more to basketball than offensive efficiency.

And because the long term salary we’d be netting only amounts to a couple mil a year more than the long-term salary we’d be getting rid of?

Ugh, we’re adding salary in your deal? It’s even worse than I thought.

Haha. Sorry man, I find this type of rhetorical question silly in the first place, but it’s especially hard to take seriously when you conveniently omit our two best shooters, Curry and Morrow.

So, you want to trade for a $10M+/year player, and when you need a basket at crunch time, you want Iggy to be option #3, behind Curry (the distributor) and Morrow? Strange plan if you ask me.

And man, you are down on Monta. Sleepy, it’s not as bad as it seems.

by UncleCliffy on Jun 25, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Monta Ellis isn't all that good though

Andre Iguodala is a serious upgrade over him in just about every facet of the game. Scoring, shooting, passing, rebounding, defense… seriously. Iggy is way better.
We don’t have anyone on our team who is good at hitting big shots anyway. We’d be trading one of the worst late game players I’ve seen recently for a guy who I have no idea about in that pat of the game.
Seriously bro- Monta is pretty bad. If anything, we’re rocking them. Your best player doesn’t have to take the last shot. The last shot thing is so overrated anyway. You seem to be implying that the only players who are worth $10 M+ are players who can take the last shot, or at least wing players who could do that. That seems goofy.
We’re trading a poor decision making, bad defensive, undersized 2 guard for an athletic, skilled, defensive-minded point-forward type. Iggy is so much better than Monta. If Iggy is at all overpaid, then Monta is disgustingly overpaid.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

As someone on the sideline on this

Pretty shocked someone wouldn’t want Iggy for Ellis.

Please note the 11 next to my name. All others are frauds.

by wallywagon11 on Jun 25, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

We don’t have anyone many opportunities on our team who is good at hitting to take big shots anyway.

Hitting more of those ‘little shots’ that keep you from being down by double digits in the 4th is a more pressing concern. When a team is playing well enough for the ‘big shot’ opportunity to arise, I suspect strongly that someone will be there to take them. There’s very little evidence that the variation in a player’s ability to hit the “big shot” is more than random noise around their abilities to perform in the rest of the game.

by jae on Jun 26, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I love how I try to make a good point, with five or six important details, and I get bashed repeated for just one of those. My points that have not yet been responded to my comments regarding:

  • Giving up both Monta and Brandan Wright
  • Possible “grass is greener” syndrome
  • Iggy being a good but definitely not great player despite being paid like one
  • Specifically, Not staying in front of his man, Disappearing for long stretches of games, Not getting calls from the refs on plays going to the basket, Struggling defensively when he’s not being aggressive offensively, and Shooting a lot of jumpers
  • Most importantly, I feel his history in late-game situations is critical. It’s one of the main reasons that Philly fans don’t like him. Can we get some commentary from the 76ers blog about this?

Stepping back just a bit, perhaps this whole thing is just a philosophical difference of opinion regarding the direction of the Warriors organization. I see what this trade for Iggy is supposed to accomplish. The W’s get bigger in the back-court, give up a fragile PF, yet lose none of the athleticism which makes W’s basketball exciting.

But I look at it different. I have stated many times that IMO the W’s goal cannot and should not strive to be a .500 team or the #8 seed in the west. The goal is a championship, and the team must be run that way. They need a real, firm plan to win it all. Just my opinion, of course. I feel like the acquisition of any “Just good enough to make you lose” player with a huge contract (like Iggy or Corey or signing Rudy Gay) is a mistake. Those guys don’t win championships. They keep you in NBA purgatory. And I don’t see how making this deal (or any deal for Iggy given his contract) is a step toward winning a championship. A step toward a .500 team? Maybe, but not the right direction to win it all.

by UncleCliffy on Jun 26, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I love how I try to make a good point, with five or six important details, and I get bashed repeated for just one of those.

Get over your persecution complex. You were not “bashed”.

by jae on Jun 26, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sleepy, just because I think you might be overrating Iggy’s skills, I never said he was better or worse than Monta or OJ.

You seem confused, UncleCliffy. Allow me to explain something to you. This

is a quote box. Here’s how it works. When you copy-paste something I say into this box and write something underneath it, the strong implication, to me and others, is that you’re replying to what I’ve written. When you put “Iguodala is the best player in the deal” in the box and say “I think you’re seriously overrating Iguodala,” the implication is that your statement is a response to mine. If your statement isn’t a response to mine, but rather an attempt to demonstrate your ability to read my mind, you should make that clear. Or better yet: not pretend I’ve said something that I haven’t.

It was an anecdote. A revealing one. I love how you can’t just say "interesting" and move on.

Haha, glad you love it. The reason I didn’t say it was interesting is because I didn’t think it was. Further, your “revealing” anecdote was a response to my request for some “information you’d like to impart from observing him more closely.” Which, if you recall, was a response to your rather smart-ass rhetorical question “how many games have you watched?” Sorry if the irony wasn’t lost me when you revealed that, lo and behold, your opinion on the matter was informed not by watching the games, but by some talk show you watched on TV at your parents’ house.

Not everything has to be quantitative.

Hello, non-sequitur. You realize that in this kind of forum, it helps if one statement follows logically from the next?

Who was better last year "at hitting shots, big or otherwise," Iggy or Corey??

Maggette. Is this a trick question?

Clearly, there is more to basketball than offensive efficiency.

A lovely thought. And once again … I have no idea how it follows from your previous sentence, or from anything else that’s been written in this thread.

Ugh, we’re adding salary in your deal? It’s even worse than I thought.

Haha. So after harping continually on the fact that Iguodala’s contract is the sticking point in the Warriors’ potentially acquiring him, you act surprised to “learn” that acquiring him would involve taking on a bit of extra salary? Ugh, indeed.

So, you want to trade for a $10M+/year player, and when you need a basket at crunch time, you want Iggy to be option #3, behind Curry (the distributor) and Morrow? Strange plan if you ask me.

Again, this is what you wish I said, not what I actually said.

And man, you are down on Monta

Non-sequitur number … sheesh, what are we on now?

Seriously, man: I’m not sure if you are actually confused, or just being deliberately obtuse (I suspect a bit of both) but your act is getting tired. If you want to blab on about random stuff, that’s cool, but don’t hit the REPLY button when you do, else people will assume your statements have some logical connection to theirs. If you want to make an argument that Monta is a more valuable player than Iguodala, that’s great — make it. You waste my time and everyone else’s here when you pretend that your assorted straw men, non sequiturs and absurd rhetorical questions relate in any way to what I’ve written.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jun 26, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sry, I will not use boxes any more (not even sure what I did wrong but w/e I probably deserved a cyber-lecture).

Ok, let’s dismiss with the attacking nature of the posts and run with your idea. 3-way swap goes down:

A few Non-Iggy concerns:
1. Any concern that you are giving away Brandan Wright when undervalued and he has a big year for Memphis?
2. Monta is still young and was the 6th leading scorer in the NBA (I think). If he teams with Gasol and Randolph and plays with a real center tandem for the first time in his career, would you expect his efficiency to go up?

W’s Lineup:

Curry/Iggy/Azubuike/Randolph/Biedrins

Guard X/Morrow/Williams/Udoh/Turiaf

Ok, I’m concerned about the SF spot and backup PG. And the PF. We shipped off Corey and I’m not 100% sure that Kelenna will come back quickly from a major injury. I feel like the loss of Wright makes us even smaller when this trade is completed. And who do we pick up for guard X?

by UncleCliffy on Jun 26, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m fairly certain that after Kelenna hit this three that Iggy missed the game winner at the buzzer. Can anyone confirm?

by UncleCliffy on Jun 25, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good defense by Iguodala on that play.

Derrick Coleman is my power animal.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jun 26, 2010 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like the trade you proposed where we get Henry and Iguodala better

"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2

by golden_solitude on Jun 25, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really like this trade for us

but I would imagine Philly would just rather get Ellis and Wright back for Iguodala than Mayo and Thabeet.

Either way, as you said, the commitment to defense is something this fanbase deserves.

by eastbayglory on Jun 25, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think they'd rather have Mayo and Thabeet

They can shed some cap space, and roll with a big name backcourt of Holiday, Mayo, and Turner.

"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2

by golden_solitude on Jun 25, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

They can shed some cap space, and roll with a big name backcourt of Holiday, Mayo, and Turner.?

   Montay and Wright are probably as big of names back east as Mayo and Holiday?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 25, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

So first Riley says he's a 4

Than says he won’t beat out AR or BW, than says Monroe will be good but than say Udoh was the BPA? Somehow that doesn’t make sense

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 12:36 PM PDT reply actions  

As far as that “he’s a 4” thing goes, Riley did say that he was going to move some people around in that interview with Tim Roye.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 25, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Position wise or trade wise?

Cause if we trade AR cause we got Udoh…..

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't we have an option there?

Also not playing since 08’ will hurt any value someone had

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess that’s the thing we don’t know. I expect a trade or two, though, involving a few big men.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 25, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

The FO may not view AR as highly as we fans do.

This could get scary.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Jun 25, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 25, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I dunno, maybe because he was a productive player before his injury? Or the fact that Nellie had him as our starting PF before his injury. 2 Reasons why he might be able to play?

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno, maybe because he was a productive player before his injury?

You mean at UNC?

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 25, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I mean during his limited playtime at GSW.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously you didn't get the reference

Let me rephrase my joke:

I dunno, maybe because he was a productive player before his injury?

Which injury?

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 25, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

08-09, the shoulder one. I think he hurt it against the Lakers?

by DubsFan408 on Jun 25, 2010 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he hurt it against the Lakers?

correct
-january 09 -against Pau Gasol

MFW FTW!

by Lat We N Trash on Jun 25, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was beasting it up in that game too before he got hurt.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jun 25, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sigh...

Apparently jokes don’t work. Brandan Wright has shown that, while he may not be in the Greg Oden realm, he is very injury prone. Somebody who dislocates his shoulder is very, very likely to do it again. For reference, my friend who has a dislocated shoulder had it re-dislocated after trying to catch a football and having it hit his forearm. That football was thrown not too hard from about 10 yards away. It is not hard to do. Suffice to say Brandan will do a better job of keeping his shoulder in shape than my friend, but it’s not a one time freak accident. It will happen again… and has happened again.

Brandan Wright is injury prone and nothing he has done has suggested that he will be healthy going forward. He has shown flashes of usefulness in his limited playing time, but has still not played a full seasons worth of games in 3 years of opportunity.

Given that he hasn’t shown superstar potential and that he’s very injury prone, it’s silly to expect him to be a regular rotation player. It’s very prudent to find a viable replacement should he A) Get injured… again, and/or B) Not be particularly productive when not injured.

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 28, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's called spin...

see Riley’s got you all over the place.

by brewitt on Jun 25, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Trading AR

In my opinion, you trade AR if you going to get a beast, don’t trade him for Gay or Iggy third tier players like that. This team next move is to try trading Beans and Ellis to free up cap space for the coming years. Curry is our franchise player, AR is our future potential, we need a defensive minded SG like Raja Bell to defend the perimeter and we need a good all around SF. I think we should sign Salmons with our MLE, trade Beans to the Thunders for Collison and Sefolosha. Wait until free agency begins and see what happens with the Knicks, if they sign Bosh then try a sign and trade for Lee by offering Ellis, they need scorers.

I hate when I see a player like Chris Douglas-Roberts get traded for nothing, I like his skill level and he would have fit this team nicely. We need some major roster changes if this team wants to compete next year. If we sign Salmons and trade for Lee and Sefolosha, I think while this team might not be perfect but they will be able to compete on high level.

Starting Lineup

Curry
Sefolosha
Salmons
AR
Lee

Bench
CJ
Morrow
R Williams
Wright or Udoh
Turiaf/Gadzuric

Waaaarriors

by puffylove on Jun 25, 2010 4:05 PM PDT reply actions  

I hate when I see a player like Chris Douglas-Roberts get traded for nothing

haha , probably was due to that split personality problem?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 25, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hate to break it to you guys but...

unfortunately the Warriors are not going to make any trades other than dumping our big contracts Biedrins and Ellis. What I think is going on here is that clearly this is a controversial pick and in order to keep those season ticket holders happy, Riley has to say stuff like “we are looking for a SF or another 5.”

I’d admit that I have calmed down after the pick and I’d like to see this guy Udoh in action. I kind of half-laughed when people on this site said that this draft is 5 deep and the Warriors picked 6th. It turned out to be correct based on what we know so far. So in this vein, I don’t know who else they could have picked. Monroe who has invisible ankle-weights on? Ich? Thank you lottery! We’ll see you again next year.

However, that could all change. There are going to be some busts we know that. I can only hope that Udoh is going to be decent. At this point if the guy pulls 8+ rebounds a game with minimal scoring I’ll be satisfied with that. I get kind of worried about Garry St. Jean’s comparison with Tyrone Hill. When Hill came into the league he was crappy. He had no offensive game. It was only after he was traded from GS did he do anything.

Look I’m looking forward to watching Curry improve this season and watching some of the other young guys develop. Realistically, we are going to see another 20+ win season if that. We’re gonna have the injuries and there will be plenty of disappointments.
  

by brewitt on Jun 25, 2010 5:18 PM PDT reply actions  

What I think is going on here is that clearly this is a controversial pick and in order to keep those season ticket holders happy

 yeah, the oracle was rockin last night when they called out his selection.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 25, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Guys

I know why they picked him. He has the same birthday as me.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 5:23 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

+2

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

i agree

the only trade i see them making is sending ab and ar somewhere for a true sf other then that ellis will stay why give up a star player wait the warriors always give up there star play i think if ellis leaves curry will be out of here in 2 yrs its a never ending cycle with this team giving away star players jamison richardson webber spreewell jackson

by gstateballer on Jun 25, 2010 5:35 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah

lets trade our only starting quality center for a small forward and create a huge hole in our front court. Let’s keep our defensively terrible, undersized 2 guard because he scores a lot of points.
To add onto the Can’t Use the Reply Button Theorem- the Can’t Use the Period Key Theorem.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 25, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well it is what were doing

Apparently we want AR and BW starting together…

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 25, 2010 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm going to discover how to cryogenically freeze myself

so I can wake up next year when the Warriors have new ownership, and this nightmare of the past 16 years is over.

by Evanz on Jun 25, 2010 8:13 PM PDT reply actions  

After further review and watching game film on Udoh...

I came away impressed, my first question was can he guard? Yes Can he shoot? Yes Can he pass? Yes Does he have a “go to move and counter”? Yes Is he tough? Yes. I would say by All Star Break Randolph or Wright will be gone and Udoh will even start over 20 games in his rookie season! Mark it down!

by Brothaplease09 on Jun 25, 2010 8:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Trade must happen!!!

No way we start this season with this current roster. This team as of now can’t win against anybody except by chance. Beans has regressed to the point he needs to resurrect his career somewhere else. Nellie won’t commit to him except maybe 18 mins a game. AR needs to change his attitude and start understanding the NBA game otherwise he will seem lost as usual. I am not saying we need to trade AR matter fact I think he should stay, but I think fans need to realize that Nellie doesnt like the kid and plus he is our only trading chip we got if we plan to move Beans. Hence, this team needs to focus on getting a SF player with one or two more years left in his contract. I hope we can trade for AK47, Prince, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard and Caron Butler. I don’t want us to trade for Turkoglu or Iggy. I dont mind Deng but I doubt Chicago would trade him unless they get Lebron and we trade Ellis plus AR for him.

If none of these guys can be had for this team, then salary dump would be the only choice which I dont mind if we can get a serviceable player with one year contract like lets say injury prone Peja. Nevertheless, this team can’t start the year with the status quo and wait until Feburary trade deadline to pull the plug, we need a change now.

Waaaarriors

by puffylove on Jun 25, 2010 9:15 PM PDT reply actions  

AR is moving on

Like it or not – I think the writing is on the wall. Udoh is everything AR is not – he is a legit PF in terms of size, he is a good rebounder, good man to man defender AND weakside defender, has fundamentals and foot work around the basket, can pass well for a big man and is mature. He’ll never be as flashy, jump as high, or be as quick as AR – but the game is basketball, not track and field. I’d rather keep AR and trade BW but AR has much more value.
We are trying to build a team around curry and part of that means getting guys who can be effective without the ball in their hands, play defense and play smart, and have good attitudes.
Monta will be gone too with this criteria.

by tjmax on Jun 26, 2010 12:07 AM PDT reply actions  

also, larry riley's comments

saying that he wants to see all three guys (EU, AR, BW) battle it out seems to be another indicator that he expects to trade one of them. I highly doubt its EU and BW has too little value on the market

by tjmax on Jun 26, 2010 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Udoh is probably just a role player

And they said they don’t expect him to beat out AR or BW. If we trade a potential star cause we got a nice guy who is a role player…..

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 26, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

he's a legit PF

he is already our best defender in the paint and actually has some post moves down low. Riley said this about him because A) he wants Udoh to hear he has to earn minutes, B) he is aware of AR’s fragile ego.
Udoh may be a role player, but he’d be a role player for a good team – which we are not. I think we’ll see him playing PF a lot, especially after we move AR or BW.

by tjmax on Jun 26, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we trade a potential star cause we got a nice guy who is a role player…..

  we’d be following the warrior’s credo. …. Give’m just enough to sell the tickets and not an inch more.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 26, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

This guy may not even stay with us

When I saw the photo gallery of his introduction out here, he wasn’t even presented with a jersey.

by Golden Boy on Jun 26, 2010 9:35 AM PDT reply actions  

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