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Doctor Strangepick or: How I Learned to Stop Griping and at Least Not Hate Drafting Ekpe Udoh

I won’t pretend that I’m all that different from the bulk of you who look at selecting Ekpe Udoh as something between a puzzle and a failure.  I won’t pretend that this isn’t yet another piece of evidence that Larry Riley should look for other employment.  I *can’t* pretend I’m excited by this year’s draft.  I’m not. 

In fairness, it’s not as though Ekpe is certainly destined to disappoint.  This isn’t the Fuller pick.

But it still sits wrong.  In fact, I’m probably more underwhelmed than I have been with any pick since Todd Failure heard his named called, a case where there was virtually no chance that the pick would pan out as anything worthwhile.  This is not that sort of pick, but I’m still underwhelmed. 

I won’t pretend that those feelings are all gone.  But on closer inspection, I’ve found a way to squeeze some sense into the pick.  I’ve found cause to couple this into the hope that keeps a Warriors fan a Warriors fan.  Follow the jump to find out why.

Star-divide

I’m underwhelmed because it’s just hard to let this pick catch one’s imagination. When our Warriors picked the POB, I knew it was a foolish "need" pick and was sure that he was destined to do nothing.  But somehow it wasn’t as initially deflating.  Perhaps, even knowing better as I should, some part of me still holds that glimmer hope that a "true 7 footer" will solidify the center position, something that most teams almost always need.  When Randolph’s name was called, I similarly thought that we were more than likely seeing a bust. Nothing he’d done in college or high school suggested that he’d boost the team.  But his combination of size and athleticism was tantalizing. He was young, still brimming with ‘potential’ as a result, and at the tail end of the lottery, with sure things gone and in a spot where picks are as likely to be practice fodder and garbage time filler as they are contributors, it was a defensible move that could generate real excitement.  [I have been pleasantly surprised by Randolph, even if he is still far from a sure thing and remains a ‘work in progress’.]  

Drafting Udoh trumped the underwhelming feel that came with either of these picks.  Both the POB and Randolph were taken later in the draft.  Both had at least a glimmer of appeal.  I have had a hard time getting past ‘disparaged’ this time. It didn’t seem to make sense. It didn’t spark visions of ‘potential’ and ‘upside’. It wasn’t exciting.  I immediately longed for the 2011 draft to find a new place to hang my hopes.

But with despair having run its course, a cooler head has me thinking about how and why this pick makes sense

  • The Value Proposition

At 23, Udoh will be much closer to his prime than the younger players.  We’ll know what we have in him much, much sooner than with a 20 year-old with "upside".  If he turns out to be a useful player, and in this particular draft a useful player from the slot we picked should be considered a success, he’ll be on the rookie scale for the whole of his peak.  No, it’s unlikely that he’ll become a star, and that’s the sort of thing that you can dream of with the youngsters, but if you’re investing 4 years in the 19 year old with only marginal contribution in those years anyhow, by the time the kid is up for his new contract, you’re lucky if you really know that he’ll be worth the further, likely much, much larger investment that it will take to keep him around.  You could just as likely wind up going into contract negotiations still weighing "potential".  In essence, the gigantic contracts that some rookies used to command before ever stepping foot on the court that eventually led to the rookie scale have been pushed out for 5th year players.  While there’s time in the NBA to better evaluate, there’s not much evidence that management has learned the lesson.  They still pay for bad gambles.  Now they do it with evidence from a few years’ play in the league that really *should* make them know better.

As a value proposition, Udoh may make more sense than the younger players.  While there is little chance of a homerun with Udoh, there is far less chance that you’ll pay $10+mil to watch a guy continue to strike out, hoping that the pretty (but ultimately unsuccessful) swing will eventually turn into a parade of home runs.  Marginally (in)-competent bigs tend to be costly.  Finding a reliable front court contributor to come in and do dirty work with even marginal success is tough, even when you wave around a full MLE.  If Udoh manages to fill that role, it’s not a failure of a pick.  Obviously, you can’t expect to go tremendously far with a team constructed entirely of value propositions (although last year’s Rockets suggest it’s quite a bit further than conventional wisdom would tell us) but you’re not likely to go far taking long-shot bet after long-shot bet, especially when you start to pay them like they’re sure things.  Given that the picks later were not just long-shots, but long shots that didn’t look like home-runs if by chance they panned out, taking a value proposition seems far more palatable.

  • A Change in Philosophy

Udoh was not drafted for his ability to put the ball in the basket. A post player who cannot connect on 50% of his shots in college is a bit of a concern. And while he was a good college rebounder, he certainly wasn’t a vacuum cleaner.  It remains to be seen if he can be effective on the glass against professionals.  To believe the scouting reports and a rather impressive blocked shot total that came without a tendency to commit fouls, Udoh is being brought in for his defense. 

Defense is half the game.  Players, coaches and execs pay lip service to this all the time, though when it comes contract time, defense is an afterthought, falling far, far short of points per game in deciding who gets paid what.  GMs will open up an owner’s checkbook for a guy who puts points on the scoreboard, even if he allows more than he scores (and prevents teammates from scoring by firing up an inordinate number of shots to get those points).  It’s the rare player to parlays defensive work into a payday.  But defense is more than just lip service in terms of real impact on wins and losses.  Empirical evidence indicates that a team’s defensive performance has as much impact on the final score as the team’s offensive performance.  While just acquiring individual defenders is no guarantee that of a revolution in a team’s defensive performance, it can help.  This has certainly been true with Don Nelson.  He’s had good defensive teams in the past, but only when he had good individual defenders going on and doing their job.  Leave him with guys who don’t show up on that end of the court and his teams do poorly on defense.  And from the perspective of team defense, that case where 5 guys working together being more than the sum of their parts, this sends a signal that defense is something valued, something important and something that won’t be ignored.  At some tipping point, putting enough guys on the court who care makes the rest of the team try that much harder.

 Is Udoh such a player?  That remains to be seen.  Normally, I find analogies to other players to be rather ridiculous.  The "NBA comparisons" on draft sites favor superficial similarities (talk/short, fat/thin, white/black, same would-be-alma-mater-if-the-guys-actually-graduated) that mean far less in terms of actual impact on the game.  But if it’s true that he can guard multiple positions, he could fall into the mold of George Lynch or Shane Battier. 

Shane-battier_medium

Battier at #6 didn't excite many, but there is a reason he's won more often than he's lost.

Battier was more heralded in college, winning the Naismith award (though largely because he got more exposure going to Dook).  Battier has never looked particularly impressive on an NBA court, but when he’s consistently made the teams he’s joined better when he’s played than they were without him.  At some point, that has to stop looking like coincidence.  Battier has the ability to match up in the front court and on the wings, making it that much more difficult to isolate and exploit his teams.  Lynch similarly made a living by closing in on traps and by making sure that when he found himself switched on D, an easy basket was far from a foregone conclusion.  Though conventional wisdom rarely rewards him, he found himself playing substantial roles on winning teams.  Closer to home, the last time the Warriors had a guy who presented similar defensive versatility was when Stephen Jackson was here (and cared, a venn set that unfortunately did not completely overlap).  It was also the last time that the team played anything that resembled effective defense.

Tracy-mcgrady_1_medium

George Lynch quietly made life difficult for anyone he was tasked with guarding.

Neither Jackson nor Battier have been tasked with stopping opposing 4s and 5s as their primary mission. (However, while listed a couple of inches shorter than Udoh, Battier was only a half an inch shorter at the combine.)  Lynch gave up enough inches that you’d rather his exposure to another team’s center be limited.  Udoh projects to be someone expected to give opposing big men trouble and block shots when guards dare to enter the pain. Being able to take on the tough assignment at a number of positions can better hide the individual shortcomings of guys like Biedrins or Randolph who, while effective on the glass, have trouble in isolation against a big with any sort of offensive game. His versatility comes from taking the tough big man and putting up a reasonable fight when drawn out and switched onto the opposition’s 3.  We haven’t seen this in a while, but it’s far from crazy and it just might work!

Are you convinced now? 

Sigh…

Comment 88 comments  |  17 recs  | 

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Good effort, and an enjoyable read. Rec'd for the work.

But Udoh isn’t Lynch and he isn’t Battier. He has zero potential to slide out and guard the perimeter. He’s limited athletically somewhat (especially in lateral movement).

Think Jason Thompson more than those two.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 26, 2010 4:37 PM PDT reply actions  

Please do note that I did not say that Udoh was like Lynch or Battier in terms of the physical tools. If you’re disagreeing with that, you’re disagreeing with what you think I was saying, not what I actually said. Lynch (and Battier) were versatile in being able to pick up 2s, 3s and 4s, not always with the same degree of success, but enough to make them work. It’s highly unlikely that Udoh will wind up trying to run down an off guard. But he might be the sort of player who can handles 4s and 5s without being a total liability if he gets switched onto a 3 on a play.

The book on Battier has always been that he’s limited athletically as well.

by jae on Jun 26, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

The book on Battier has always been that he’s limited athletically as well.

It’s funny how many good players have this criticism , and at same time, we fall in love with athletic freaks with little BBall iq. Rec’d for a good read.

Sadly, as much as I want to criticize the pick, first q you should always ask is ‘who should they have picked instead’ and I have no name that makes me really sad.

by tafkasam on Jun 26, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well

what good players are you thinking of that are mediocre athletes?
For top 10 players, I can’t think of one who isn’t at least an above average athlete, and most of the guys at the top are freaks. My top 4 looks something like LeBron, Paul, Wade, Howard. Paul is a good athlete. The others are very good-great athletes.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 26, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Steve Nash

John Stockton
Other good white guy point guards

by Calamity on Jun 27, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Weren’t many big, athletic players in the 80’s.

"The Warriors, who are the most dysfunctional organization in the NBA, were, of course, the team that screwed up the draft."
-Chad Ford, ESPN, 2010 on Ekpe Udoh

by LarryLegendofOracle on Jun 27, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Magic Johnson

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 27, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

My top 4 looks something like LeBron, Paul, Wade, Howard. Paul is a good athlete.

And yet… only 1 championship between them. Is Kobe a great athlete? Used to be, not anymore. Gasol? Not really… he’s just tall and really good at what he does. Duncan? Nope. Billups/Prince/Wallace/Wallace/Hamilton? Nope. What separated Jordan from his peers? Certainly he was a great athlete, but so were Clyde and the rest. What separated Jordan was his incredible skill, not his athleticism.

Would you consider DeJuan Blair a great athlete? Charles Barkley? There are many ways to be an effective basketball player.

Being a great athlete is certainly useful and gets you plenty of notoriety because you can do things that amaze the general public. But it doesn’t necessarily correlate with winning. A great athlete who doesn’t close out on a jump shooter is still a bad basketball player. A great athlete who can make crazy dunks and put backs is exciting, but a boring guy with 15 effective low post moves but no hops is going to be a more successful basketball player.

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 28, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is probably neither here nor there and doesn't disprove your point at all.

I will argue that young Charles Barkely was a freakish athlete.

I know he was heavy and during most of his career and he had the belly. That being said, early on, even with the weight, he was an amazing athlete. Look for some video. Trust me, it’s good times.

Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

by wallywagon11 on Jun 28, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure what them having 1 championship means?

Kobe sucks
"Frankly your desire to be a seller is just proof of how blinded you are by your hatred of Sabean"-giantsrainman..LOL

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 28, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I meant in terms of versatility.

He’s limited in the types of players he can guard (right now). He isn’t quick enough to guard perimeter fours reliably, and not strong enough to guard fives.

by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 26, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

They are what I think you thought I thought you think they are!!!!

Excellent read. Thanks for the insight.

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 28, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I believe in the Lion

Because he’s our guy. We picked him and he’s who we get. All positivity now. We didn’t get monroe and I’m happy because he’s soft and he’s gonna get the big smackdown from Udoh any time they meet. Udoh our big beast in the middle off the bench backin up Beans and Dolph bringin the hurt and lockin down the paint.

UDOH! UDOH! UDOH!

Play hard, then rock out even harder.

by TheBigLeburnski on Jun 26, 2010 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

God forbid anyone disagree with you but

George Lynch was maybe 6 6’ and was nothing like Udoh.

Set a record by getting banned for the 8th time!
After rehab I saw the light and promise to be kinder and gentler!
Probation is a very slippery slope!

by StinkyFingers on Jun 26, 2010 4:40 PM PDT reply actions  

See above
Please do note that I did not say that Udoh was like Lynch or Battier in terms of the physical tools. If you’re disagreeing with that, you’re disagreeing with what you think I was saying, not what I actually said. Lynch (and Battier) were versatile in being able to pick up 2s, 3s and 4s, not always with the same degree of success, but enough to make them work. It’s highly unlikely that Udoh will wind up trying to run down an off guard. But he might be the sort of player who can handles 4s and 5s without being a total liability if he gets switched onto a 3 on a play.

-JAE

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 28, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Udoh brings so much to the table past defense. Great post, though.

[Info on Randolph] Would have been valuable at this time... But our management failed.

by LarryLegendofOracle on Jun 26, 2010 4:46 PM PDT reply actions  

Great post, but i still stick to my opinion.

Kobe sucks

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 26, 2010 4:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Great post, but i still stick to my opinion.

Kobe sucks

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 26, 2010 4:47 PM PDT reply actions  

…But it still sits wrong. In fact, I’m probably more underwhelmed than I have been with any pick since Todd Failure heard his named called, a case where there was virtually no chance that the pick would pan out as anything worthwhile. This is not that sort of pick, but I’m still underwhelmed.

However cliche it may be to say, my sentiments exactly!

I found the Warriors in my teens, during the lock-out season, and I was full of youthful foolhardiness and high hopes. 12 years later I am a grizzled fan-veteran. While there have been many tantalizing drafts for the Warriors in that period (remember when we almost got VC?), the 2nd Nelson era brought more wins, and necessarily less hopeful drafts.

This year, however, I allowed myself to get my hopes up. Before that last, ill-fated push, there was a time when they seemed a lock to get the 3rd best odds in the lottery.

Then all hell broke loose.

Now the draft has come and gone and I’m still reeling. Of all the players I youtube’d and nbadraft.net’ed and espn insider’ed Udoh never even piqued my curiosity. He was wasn’t hyped like Favors and Cousins, and he wasn’t annoyingly over-hyped and too small like Aminu ( I’m talking center here, no griping!). He’s a blank slate. With time I think that will give me some solace, but no matter what happens we’ve all still got a long, long time to wait for even a chance at a player large and skilled enough to make our team respectable.

Confront racism: Boycott Arizona

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Jun 26, 2010 4:55 PM PDT reply actions  

I was pretty underwelmed by Adonal too...

And probably more than Fuller. Maybe it was age, but after success of Garnett, growth of Kobe, i was in LOVE with McGrady in that draft and yet we still took Adonal

by tafkasam on Jun 26, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Recd, +good read..the hardest thing was getting over my Cousins focus but when looking at the other options....

…and not know what mysterious great player will emerge from much later picks then Udoh just may have been the best big available. We were just one pick too high.

by Only In Fairfax on Jun 26, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s not the most talented guy, or the most appealing pick, but you look at all the top teams and they have some kind of player like Udoh. A guy that will do the dirty work and do whatever it takes to win. Even though it may not seem worth it with the 6th pick, and they have other pressing needs they need to fill, he’s the kind of player we were going to eventually need anyways.

by duballers23 on Jun 26, 2010 5:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Normally, I find analogies to other players to be rather ridiculous.

   How about Paul George as a young Kobe? He was selected #10, not much lower than Okie-dokey was projected to go, what would you have thought if we’d picked him?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 26, 2010 5:10 PM PDT reply actions  

After the first 5, I think I’d have found a way to be underwhelmed with anyone. Paul George isn’t much of a shooter. He found ways to score in college despite that but I don’t really have much of a feeling that he’ll find similar success in the pros.

by jae on Jun 26, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

George shot 39.6% on 308 3 point attempts in college. Kobe wishes he shot that well now, let alone when he was a teen.

by tafkasam on Jun 26, 2010 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes

Kobe needs a great 3 point shot to contribute to a winning team. If only Kobe was more like Paul George, he’d have been more successful as an NBA player.

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 28, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

He would be a much better player if he traded in his fadeaway mid range game for 40% 3 point shooting.

Kobe sucks
"Frankly your desire to be a seller is just proof of how blinded you are by your hatred of Sabean"-giantsrainman..LOL

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 28, 2010 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Paul George isn’t much of a shooter.

 maybe I saw some atypical film but I thought he has a pretty sweet stroke, kinda like Kobe or Tmac. along with a well rounded game. Didn’t watch his defense though so maybe it’s not kobe-esque?

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 26, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, i'll guess hes a better 3 point shooter than Kobe at this point because he has shot 40% from 3 in college.

Kobe sucks
"Frankly your desire to be a seller is just proof of how blinded you are by your hatred of Sabean"-giantsrainman..LOL

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 26, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

But does he "get it"?

I hope he doesn’t come in with Derozen syndrome.

"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."

by kenntoe on Jun 27, 2010 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Henry is going to be really good

I like guys who show their emotions like he did on draft night. ’Bout made me cry. I hope he gets a chance to play in Memphis.

by Evanz on Jun 28, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I feel

alittle better about the pick after i let it sink in but i still would rather the Warriors get someone else or trade the pick for someone else. This years draft didn’t give me the excitement like last year with Stephen Curry. But as a Warrior fan, he’ll grow on to me and I will support him.

Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Please sell the team Chris Cohan
Future of the Dubs: SC30, AR4

by GSW9 on Jun 26, 2010 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

or trade the pick for someone else.

I don’t think anyone else really wanted the pick either. What would entice someone to trade up for it? Was there someone that a team liked so much more than the guy who was going to be around at to warrant giving up an asset and paying a #6 pick instead of the lower pick they saw as virtually the same? This is one of those cases where I actually believe Riley. He said there was no serious interest from other teams. I don’t doubt him because I can’t see why there would be serious interest. It’s fine to propose some phantom “they should have traded the pick” but it’s meaningless without a reason for another team to trade for it.

by jae on Jun 26, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tyrone Hill

I see Udoh as a Tyrone Hill type player. Tea Time (for those who remember!) made a career by grabbing 10rpg and getting about 10ppg by getting offensive rebounds and put backs, plus easy dunks. occasional hooks in the lane, too.

If Udoh can be Tyrone Hill — then this was well worth the pick.

by joegiant on Jun 26, 2010 5:23 PM PDT reply actions  

according to basketball reference, Tyrone Hill averaged 20.2 pts & 12.6 rebs as a SR at age 21. he averaged 11 rebounds in 30.9 minutes over his 4 year career.

Ekpe averaged 13.9 pts & 9.8 rebounds in 35.1 minutes. maybe playing zone at Baylor had something to do with his poor rebounding #’s. but at Michigan, he was gathering 4 & 5 rpg while playing 20.3 & 26.0 mpg.

by homer simpson on Jun 26, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

=I

Underwhelming is a perfect word.

The draft is supposed to be the most exciting time of the year for a Dubs fan. Full of hope and promise.

It sadly humorous just how different the Kings Press Conference introducing DMC and Whiteside was (running almost 15 minutes long) compared to the 3 minute scuffle of confusion that was the Udoh Press Conference. Just shows how badly we need to clean house and get this organization ran correctly and efficiently from top to bottom.

by JR Repertoire on Jun 26, 2010 5:33 PM PDT reply actions  

the 3 minute scuffle of confusion

deja vu of Curry’s hurried and awkward press conference

by hardcore on Jun 26, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Udoh will surprise some of you...

he’s the reason Randolph or Wright won’t be around much longer lol, he’s more than just a defender, in fact he has moves with both hands and can shoot it a lil bit…no he’s not Chris Bosh or Amare, but no player in this draft IS, most fans would have been pissed regardless of who got picked I’m starting to realize…

by Brothaplease09 on Jun 26, 2010 6:00 PM PDT reply actions  

wrong

he 23…didnt even dominate college eventhough he was 4 years older than some. no post game at all…he is very very raw. has somewhat of a jumper, doesnt rebound on the defensive end, and averaqged so many blocks bc of the zone defense ran at baylor. nearly all of his blocks were from weakside help. he really wasnt tested in one on one defense situations.

by dhod on Jun 26, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aminu, probably

huge upside, great athlete. Maybe even a Paul George reach.
Not saying that Paul George would have been a better pick than Udoh, but he would have been much more exciting than this guy.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 26, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aminu isn't just a "solid" rebounder

he was a very good rebounder in college. In college, Thornton wasn’t all that good of a rebounder. Aminu is also quite a bit longer.
This isn’t to say that I don’t see why you’d say that, just that I disagree.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 26, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aminu to me is Mbah a Moute

Defense, rebounding, long, can play 3 and 4, but lacks offense

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 27, 2010 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like that comparison more

but I think Aminu has a higher ceiling.

Pro-Skub for life

by Reverend_Randy on Jun 27, 2010 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

no post game at all

He has more of a low-post game than anyone we have now…

he is very very raw

he is way more polished defensively than any big we’ve had in a while and his elbow game is very polished. Not to mention he’s a polished face-up big.
nearly all of his blocks were from weakside help. he really wasnt tested in one on one defense situations.

Actually, a lot more blocks came from iso situations- more than you think. He is excellent at staying on the ground while guarding his man and waiting till they leave the ground and then just go up and block the shot. He’s a tremendous weak-side defender but that doesn’t take away from the excellent man defender he is.

[Info on Randolph] Would have been valuable at this time... But our management failed.

by LarryLegendofOracle on Jun 26, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt they are going to trade AR or Wright or at least not this soon

I imagine they will see what all three can do this year, and then trade the one that doesn’t fit the best. Maybe they won’t trade any of them, and eventually have two of them starting with one off the bench. You also have to remember that Riley and Nelly are going to be gone very soon, so it won’t be up to them. That’s why you shouldn’t really take what they say about how they will use guys too seriously. That’ll be up to the new guys who are going to take over.

by duballers23 on Jun 26, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Neither Jackson nor Battier have been tasked with stopping opposing 4s and 5s as their primary mission.

Dirk?

by WheresMyChippy on Jun 26, 2010 6:00 PM PDT reply actions  

yeah, you never know..
Battier has never looked particularly impressive on an NBA court, but when he’s consistently made the teams he’s joined better when he’s played than they were without him. At some point, that has to stop looking like coincidence.

Of course, it’s not a coincidence, and it has everything to do with the way he studies his opponents. He breaks down film, crunches stats, and game-plans with the best of them.

Here’s a Michael Lewis article about Shane Battier that might mike some people here feel better about drafting a cerebral worker with defensive chops: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1

by Jeremy Belvins on Jun 26, 2010 6:45 PM PDT reply actions  

convinced??

- that Riley couldn’t have done much better at #6 really isn’t much of an issue unless someone argues that Monroe was going to crack the rotation for major minutes, and I maintain that all the talk about Monroe prior to the draft was a smokescreen

- nor was there a high likelihood that he could trade the pick for value (even trying to trade down) – I’d have to agree with you that Riley was probably right on those points.

- I’d add that NBA teams who are successful (make the playoffs & compete in them) have a 5 man rotation of bigs who are capable players in a rotation; we have never had that, in fact we’ve never come close until now. If AB, Turiaf, BW & AR are healthy then Ohno Udoh may be effectively utilized. I’m not at all worried about finding minutes – between foul trouble and injuries the minutes will be there (where I might quibble is the comparison of Fuller and POB, but why bother?).

- however, I think Riley doth protest too much re not having a fire sale. Like Crawford, we successfully dumped a big Maggette contract for peanuts and crackerjack, and the very next words out of his mouth were about moving AB & Monta. Lest we forget, a big part of the rationale for trading JRich for BW was to make sure we could extend these two, and now we’re on the verge of shipping one (or both?) of them out without much to show for the effort except the toy surprise at the bottom of the box.

None of this is earthshatteringly novel – everyone on this site knows we are suffering from several years of poor personnel decisions; trying to paint the silver linings in GSW’s cloudy future may simply be a task even Michaelangelo would struggle with.

What this FO needs is an enima.

by hardcore on Jun 26, 2010 6:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Maybe Udoh will work out... Maybe.

Maybe he’ll be this year’s Jrue Holiday, a valued player who was drafted for his defense but whose overall game was considered still-in-development.

But the fans seem, if nothing else, uneasy about picking Udoh. Why do we keep defending managements’ player decisions, when they’ve consistently proved they make decisions that haven’t made the team better?

by TheDaydreamer on Jun 26, 2010 7:06 PM PDT reply actions  

I have to agree with much that you wrote. However, you need to add a footnote.

The W’s biggest muck up this draft was falling two slots in the lottery (FOUR if you count not tanking the last week of games of the season.)

Incidentally, why do we always seem to lose the “roll of the dice”?

- A's fan since '68

by v7i7c on Jun 26, 2010 7:10 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m sure we’ll make the playoffs that one year too.

[Info on Randolph] Would have been valuable at this time... But our management failed.

by LarryLegendofOracle on Jun 26, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I MADE YOU GREEN

 ^ _ ^

Randolph is a garbage-point collector and Wright is probably never going to be an NBA starter, not JONeal at all.

LarryLegendofOracle

by dso on Jun 26, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

The point is, the more bigs the better.

but they gotta be the right bigs, strong, tough,and mean. A six pack of soft lightweight bigs is not worth as much as 3 tough bruiser bigs. The big guy’s jerseys will rip the skinny guys arms off.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 26, 2010 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm willing to bet a lot of money

that the Warriors finish with a better record than the Kings next year, so long as Nellie is still the coach. A lot of money.

by Feltbot on Jun 27, 2010 2:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously you would think this.

Kobe sucks
"Frankly your desire to be a seller is just proof of how blinded you are by your hatred of Sabean"-giantsrainman..LOL

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 27, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's funny (haha) that Hollinger

had ranked Udoh 52 on his player rater and said to pass on him until the second round. He also had Whiteside ranked 61 and said to pass on him until the second round. If only the Warriors FO had ESPN Insider, eh?

by Evanz on Jun 26, 2010 8:39 PM PDT reply actions  

Udoh probably would have gone in the top 15. There’s no way to really prove it, but there’s also no way to prove that he would have lasted until Willie Warren.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Jun 26, 2010 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indiana was rumored to pick him or Utah

Or the Bucks or Rockets

When I get older, I will be stronger.
They’ll call me freedom, just like a Waving Flag

by dubzfan on Jun 27, 2010 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't saying where he would go

I just thought it was interesting that Hollinger had him ranked so low, and said he didn’t deserve to be picked until the second round. He said the same thing about Whiteside, who did end up going much lower than people had predicted.

by Evanz on Jun 27, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice post

If nothing else, you made me feel that Chad Ford was being more than a little ridiculous by giving us a D+ on draft night and Detroit an A- (yes, I realize they actually got a player in the second round, not just a few bucks for their pick). The difference between Udoh and Monroe is probably more like B vs. B-. And it just remains to be seen which was is the B and which one is the B-.

by BlueInTheFace on Jun 26, 2010 9:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Toliver

I’ve got no beef with Udoh, but I think we have someone who mirrors Udoh, but is tested. Toliver had a good year despite the inconsistancy of the Warriors. So unless there’s going to be a trade, I don’t see the sense of drafting Udoh. Like I say, I’ve got no beef with him, I just don’t understand it.

by John Will on Jun 26, 2010 9:54 PM PDT reply actions  

I kinda got over the fact that we drafted Udoh. Least he can help us in some areas? Don’t really know much about his game (from what I hear, he rebounds, blocks shots, and isn’t an efficient scorer?), but I’m confident that he’ll be better than Tolliver/Hunter. I still don’t like the pick, but we lost when Cousins was drafted.

by DubsFan408 on Jun 26, 2010 10:51 PM PDT reply actions  

but I’m confident that he’ll be better than Tolliver/Hunter.

Well the 6th pick in the draft should be better than some d league scrubs who are fringe benchwarmers.

Kobe sucks
"Frankly your desire to be a seller is just proof of how blinded you are by your hatred of Sabean"-giantsrainman..LOL

by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 26, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Us Warriors fans are always optimistic...

Just gotta love the ability we developed to make anything sound good.

Check out Goallineblitz - Free Football MMORPG
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by FLAxwless on Jun 27, 2010 12:40 AM PDT reply actions  

+1

I wish I’d written this.

by Feltbot on Jun 27, 2010 1:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Horace Grant type player would be ideal!

He doesn’t have to be option number one. We need a scrappy hard nosed blue collar type player. We need hard nosed defense with a mean streak with some scoring ability and effective doing the dirty work inside. They may not be overly athletic but neither was laImbeer, ac green, grant. We need a winning attitude not the flashy pick and projects. At first I didn’t like the pick but it’s not like the Warriors panicked like most…including me.

by 22goose on Jun 28, 2010 12:43 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Nice post Jae

I’m still down on the pick (I was not excited about Monroe or Aminu, but I would have still taken the “upside” pick) but I’m definitely hopeful that Udoh can be a solid contributor moving forward. We are probably looking at a complete management overhaul after the sale of the team and we will need some reasonably priced complementary players on the roster as the new GM tries to reshape the team. Hopefully Udoh will be one of those guys.

Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^

by olympicmike on Jun 28, 2010 2:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Now that the draft is done, I can start longing for Ed Davis. My UNC blinders prevented me from being totally objective about him before the draft, but on a numbers game, he was much better than Udoh with a similar build (with Davis still filling out). He blocked shots as well and rebounded and scored much better. Davis also had a rep as a defense 1st player (and played in a system largely revolving around man-to-man defense). Udoh is apparently more ‘skilled’ and this showed up in his passing, but there’s little else to recommend.

But I agree, it’s hard to get terribly upset, not because Ekpe seems like a good pick but because the options just seem so limited.

by jae on Jun 28, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I also suspect that the FO didn't want a project

With the exception of Randolph, everybody is 22 or above. With the exception of Curry (who is wise beyond his years), everybody relevant has at least two full years of NBA experience already. Adding a young project who probably won’t contribute for a few years is going to narrow the window.

Right or wrong, I think this factored into the decision as well.

Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.

-randolphforpresident

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Guys, look on the bright side...

Maybe we’ll get the #1 pick in the lottery next year!

by Eric Remer on Jun 30, 2010 2:25 AM PDT reply actions  

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