Ranking All 30 NBA GMs, Where Kahn's Incompetence Is Surpassed [SBNation.com]
Larry Riley has overall done a pretty solid job this offseason. I'll take his 1 year run over a lot of the guys ahead of him on this list. A few very debatable points in this summary as well, particularly this one:
"Anyway, it's pretty clear that, while Riley wasn't the head GM, he exerted more influence than Mullin during Mullin's final days in office. We can therefore pin a lot of Mullin's later mistakes on Riley too."
Kosta Perovic for the most lucrative and dumbest 2nd round contract in NBA history? Marcus Williams for a future 1st rounder? Sorry that's all Mullin. Aside from trying to concoct a PR stunt of the Chris Cohan/ Robert Rowell variety, there's absolutely no reason why any team with a clue should hire Mullin into their front office.
Comments
Honestly found basically all of the Riley part of that article to be very uneducated...
I would definitely put Riley significantly higher.
And btw, to those who think Lee’s contract is really bad…Out of the big name moves made this off season, his contract is one of the most palatable. Especially when compared to Amare, Lee’s contract is SIGNIFICANTLY better. Lee does not have the injury history, as efficient offensively, and not as poor defensively (Amare has been playing PF mostly and failing defensively, while Lee has been playing mostly C and failing defensively…Lee will hopefully do much better defensively at PF)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jul 23, 2010 9:03 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
woops forgot to address the Riley stuff
Riley managed to, very unexpectedly, get the Warriors into the FA hunt this off season and making bold moves. I’d much rather have bold, logical moves, than no moves at all with a team that has proven nothing.
He managed to dump multiple contracts and put us in a very good position for next seasons FA hunt as well, leaving the new ownership a whole lot of chips to move around (expirings/monta/etc).
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
but the fact they gave up 3 quality players to get him is ridiculous. He was an unrestricted FA and the Knicks had very little leverage and they were still able to get a very nice trio of players away from Riley. A better GM could have landed Lee by gving up less.
yah, this is pretty much the most salient argument that we overpaid
it’s not the contract that was too pricey but the players we gave up in addition to the contract, or so the argument goes.
Goal: 8 seed!
I seriously doubt that
he could have been had for less. You’re undervaluing him because we got him and we “never get elite players”. Indeed, if you follow the press history, you’ll notice that he stopped being treated as an “elite player” by a lot of the press as soon as we signed him.
The bottom line here is we have a better team and a better cap position now than we did at the end of the season. Given the Warrior FO history, it probably doesn’t make sense to fault them for not getting cute and/or greedy. Lee wanted the sign and trade – don’t forget that.
I would also question your definition of “quality players”. I liked Turiaf tremendously, Buke a lot, Randolph just ok-average, but I wouldn’t call any of them “high quality players”. And before you get going on AR’s potential, remember:
Potential is what you sell when you don’t have anything of current value.
by sellWarriorsNowplzthx on Jul 23, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
What? No
We are not a better team nor are we in better cap position. We got rid of one bad salary (Magette’s) for a worse one (Lee). If you think David Lee is more worth his salary than Corey Maggette was worth his, I have a bridge that I would like to sell you in Brooklyn. We have lost Anthony Randolph, Anthony Morrow, CJ Watson, Ronny Turiaf and Kelena Azubuike and gained Dan Gadzuric, Charlie Bell and Dorel Wright. How does that make us a better team? I would like to know.
by San Francisco Slim on Jul 27, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
How does that make us a better team?
If you’re a stats guy, look at the WS or WP projections for this team vs last year, as discussed at length in the Jeremy Lin threads. Then look at the actual cap and salary projections, as lined out in another excellent fan post.
Follow that with some salary vs production comparisons for the top FA power forwards, in which the argument can be reasonably made that we got DLee at the best value.
Be sure to check the rebound differential for the dubs’ last year, and what DLee and DWright bring to the table.
On the other hand, if you’re into intangibles, consider that DWright and DLee both bring better passing and much higher basketball iqs; better locker room dynamics, and high work ethics.
Potential is what you pitch when you have low current value.
Thanks Hawk
I pretty much decided to peruse the comments just to make sure there was some thorough dissing of the way Riley was portrayed.
Confront racism: Boycott Arizona
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Jul 23, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Huh?
Kosta Perovic for the most lucrative and dumbest 2nd round contract in NBA history? Marcus Williams for a future 1st rounder? Sorry that’s all Mullin. Aside from trying to concoct a PR stunt of the Chris Cohan/ Robert Rowell variety, there’s absolutely no reason why any team with a clue should hire Mullin into their front office.
Is that you talking or the article, sounds like something you’d say. In any case, I’d like you to go ahead and prove that it was all Mullin.
'Like' my band. I mean, it'd be awesome if you did that.
thats AB1
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
And you should prove that Mulliln didn't make those moves
I’m not sure why people, other than Atma, are so intent on defending Mullin on this site.
Mullin signed some of the very worst contracts in the league and made the trade that sent the Warriors on their latest downfall, J-Rich for the rights to Brandon Wright. He did two things which contributed most to the “We Believe” team, signed Don Nelson and traded for Baron Davis, but otherwise he was a horrible GM.
by San Francisco Slim on Jul 27, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This article was cr@p
In the biggest FA offseason in NBA history the Warriors were expected to be a non-issue.
Riley managed to move out our bad contracts (Mags) and bring in the top PF that we were all saying we wanted. And he did it while keeping Curry, Monte, and Beans. Other than Miami, the non-issue Warriors actually leaped ahead and benefited THE MOST off of LBJ’s decision by acquiring Lee and Wright. Oh and from reading GSoM, our new 12th man (Lin) has more value to the fans than most 5th men do. LOL
I thought he was a Nelly puppet at first, but this offseason has proven me wrong. Riley should be much higher on this list.
by WestCoastWarrior on Jul 23, 2010 9:27 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
right
but this isn’t in the current storyline that dominates the sports-entertainment talking heads industry.
by sellWarriorsNowplzthx on Jul 23, 2010 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Riley #28? Seriously?
He’s probably about average. I don’t think most of his moves have been clear cut good or bad. Here are my thoughts:
Unquestionably Good:
- Drafting Stephen Curry (Curry was hardly a lock and hindsight is 20/20)
Leaning Good:
- Trading Stephen Jackson for Raja Bell and Vladimir Radmanovic (he really didn’t have a choice)
- Trading Corey Maggette for Dan Gadzuric and Charlie Bell (Maggette was efficient but it was evident that we overpaid him)
- David Lee trade (I don’t like that Randolph was moved, like that we acquired David Lee. We might have paid too much, but it’s better to take talent over depth in the NBA)
- Signing Dorell Wright (Pretty much a fill-in replacement for Maggette, but works for me – much cheaper contract)
- Signing Jeremy Lin ($1.1 million over 2 years for an Ivy Leaguer that showed potential? I’m in)
Leaning Bad:
- Drafting Ekpe Udoh (Even at the time, appeared ill-advised. Still does. Probably not horrible considering no one appeared good after the Kings’ pick)
- Letting go of C.J. Watson (I can understand the NBA lockout situation, but he was an efficient PG that would have backed Curry well)
Bad:
- Letting go of Anthony Morrow ($4M/year for one of the best shooters in the NBA and we did not keep him. This is inexplicable)
Wait and See:
- Andris Biedrins and Monta Ellis (I believe that Riley didn’t trade them because they don’t have trade value right now. Biedrins could return to form, but I doubt that Monta will ever be good enough to be worth his $11 mil/year contract)
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
FREE POSEY IS FREE
- Drafting Ekpe Udoh (Even at the time, appeared ill-advised. Still does. Probably not horrible considering no one appeared good after the Kings’ pick)
Monroe would like a word with you.
'Like' my band. I mean, it'd be awesome if you did that.
He’s just another offensive-minded big man like Lee and Wright. At least Udoh brings defense and toughness to the table.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jul 23, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
There were a lot of guys I was more excited about than Udoh, but the 6 wasn’t really much more valuable than the 10 in this draft. Kind of a crapshoot.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I agree with that statement. I don’t agree, however, with the notion that since we drafted a turd, it was no big deal because no one ‘appeared’ good. There were several players who appeared good at 6. They just didn’t appear as good as the ones drafted 1-5. Which is fine.
'Like' my band. I mean, it'd be awesome if you did that.
I’m with you. I was and still am, very unhappy with the Udoh pick. If he’s a shutdown defender in the NBA, I’ll take it all back, but in college, at the age of 23, he was an average scorer and a below average rebounder (I forget if he could pass or not). That doesn’t bode well for him being much more than a rotation big. I want something more out of the 6th pick in the draft.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jul 23, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
his rep as a passer
was excellent. Good on putbacks and hustle points. Very coach-able. As it works out, he sounds like a made-to-order understudy (not just backup) for Lee.
Not saying we should have taken him – just that I think it will work out well.
by sellWarriorsNowplzthx on Jul 23, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions
he was an average scorer and a below average rebounder
per game stats for their last year in college
Udoh 35.1 mpg / 13.9 ppg / 9.8 rpg / 2.7 ast / 2.4 tov / 3.7 blk
Monroe 34.2 mpg / 14.5 ppg / 8.2 rpg / 3.2 ast / 2.9 tov / 1.5 blk
Udoh is known for his off rebounds, 3.7 offensive boards per game, and of course for his defense. He actually has a longer wingspan than BWright (7’4.5" vs 7’3.75" wingspan) He still doesn’t have much offensive game yes, but he does have a solid short-mid range jumper. The wrist injury really hurts because Udoh needs the time to develop his game, but at least it’s a type of injury where he can still work on conditioning. If Udoh doesn’t bust, he will probably be our best bigman defender, definitely the type of player we need.
I want something more out of the 6th pick in the draft.
The fact is that this was a 5 man draft, and we got 6th. After Cousin’s there just doesn’t seem to be players who you can pencil in as immediate contributers. The talent gap between the >5 picks just doesn’t seem that much to me. It would really take dumb luck for a team to get a All-star type player after Cousin’s in this draft, but I guess time will tell. Could we have traded down and picked up Udoh later? Who knows, but obviously Riley felt it was worth it.
;-P
by Badly Browned on Jul 24, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
"Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results"
I agree with most of your assessment.
I’m on a wait and see basis for all your bads.
Udoh might be a solid backup considering Lee’s middle finger heals back up.
Watson I saw as solid but replaceable.
Morrow might’ve been swallowed up on the depth chart. He has one great skill and is the best in the league at it… but we seem to have so many deficiencies.
I am a little torn about Randolph and crossing my fingers for Lee, pun intended.
Or maybe my expectations are so low I don’t think they can sink much lower?
Overall, I don’t have problems with Riley’s moves. It’s refreshing to see some change.
"If you online, check the site and FAQ Is he ill? (Yes) Do he really fit the bill? (Yes) Spit to kill? (Yes) Keep the game real? (Yes) Know the drill? (Yes) The-Ledge-Edge, still? (Yes) Can he catch wreck at will? (Yes)"
by Baron Von DOOM on Jul 23, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
i meant "different" results...
not that anyone cares
"If you online, check the site and FAQ Is he ill? (Yes) Do he really fit the bill? (Yes) Spit to kill? (Yes) Keep the game real? (Yes) Know the drill? (Yes) The-Ledge-Edge, still? (Yes) Can he catch wreck at will? (Yes)"
by Baron Von DOOM on Jul 25, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
there's absolutely no reason why any team with a clue should hire Mullin into their front office
- this site is so full of absolute declarations and hyperbole lately that it’s quite often difficult to take such “analysis” seriously
as someone who has always seen both Mullin and Nelson in a “glass is half full” sort of way they should be judged in context: as all GMs & Coaches do, they made mistakes along the way, fans may not have liked who got drafted or how they are used, but often times when viewed in context the decisions made more sense – taking a shot at being able to obtain KG a couple years ago, or drafting AR and Curry, and recently trading AR for a chance to upgrade the PF position are just recent examples (and yes, I know that was Riley) of how GMs take risks, make judgment calls, etc on players. Nelson’s use of small ball similarly is as much about what players were available and healthy as it was a style he wanted to use – his track record elsewhere proves he uses bigs when he has them …
as for Mullin’s epitaph, he made some damn good (and bad) draft picks and generaly got a lot better over his tenure (some of which is likely attributable to Nelson’s return) that alone will make him an attractive FO candidate if he chooses to get back into it, say in NY (yes, that’s a prediction)
by hardcore on Jul 23, 2010 10:21 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
is that NY front office more hat than cattle?
They haven’t established anything except to jettison Thomas’ roster, whatever the net loss in talent was involved, to put together a campaign chest for free agents. All they have to show for it is one ‘premium’ starter, at the position they could have filled for less money if they kept Lee. Lee however was part of that Thomas legacy. Walsh insisted on Randolph’s inclusion for the sign and trade; will we be thankful in the same way we were when he insisted on Diogu, thinking he was the steal of that transaction? Have any of Walsh’s teams that didn’t have R.Miller gone very far, or any of D’Antoni’s without Nash? Would it be a great shock if Gallinari and Randolph stagnate, and Stoudemire gets dinged up again? Up to now, Walsh and D’Antoni could look good with minimum positive progress because the previous regime was a disaster, and they could point to their master rebuilding scheme. We’ll see how much longer the ownership and fans will give them a pass.
Mullin might do well in NY, because the media will like him, and they can pay him a fat salary with a big job title whether he contributes anything of substance or not. He might not find the pressure and scrutiny to his liking ; he was far from a master communicator here.
by the.monk on Jul 23, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
You are amazing monk. I rec everything you say.
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 24, 2010 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Let's not jump the gun just yet
Say what you want, Mully brought in Jack and Harrington and we went to the playoffs. Riley hasn’t shown anything yet. Listen to his past KNBR interviews and then see if he followed thru on his promises. Let’s talk 2 years down the road and compare Lee/Randolph.
From Everything I've Read....
the Jack/Harrington trade was mostly made because of Nellie. Mullin was trying to make a deal for Artest and the trade that was eventually consumated was offered to Mullin by Indiana. Mullin wasn’t interested (because among other things, he didn’t want to trade Diogu), but mentioned the offer to Nellie who pushed for Mullin to pull the trigger.
by San Francisco Slim on Jul 27, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This article just upsets me, Atma
I don’t think Riley is the greatest GM but after Mullin he’s a huge breathe of fresh air and done a good job so far.
The Lee/Randolph thing is just a joke. I wonder at what point people will stop making excuses for Randolph being mediocre and accept fact he is just that, extremely athletic, extremely low IQ BBall player. He turns the perceived ‘potential’ (and even if it’s real it is still JUST potential) into an upper teir PF. A player I might ad, he convinced to come here, when the perception of GSW around the league is it’s a toxic situation you can’t convince anyone to come to. I don’t know what else you want
Blaming him for Mullin’s mistakes is laughable too.
The guy who wrote this is a reason why Blogs are NOT taken seriously.
by tafkasam on Jul 23, 2010 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This
[Randolph] is just that, extremely athletic, extremely low IQ BBall player.
Pretty good description of AR.
@WorldBLee
Had Riley not made the Randolph/Lee trade (Buike and Turiaf are quality players, but more importantly they have expiring contracts), there would be a plethora of articles like this one bashing him for sitting on his hands and falling in love with “young talent.” I think it should also be mentioned that the dumbest move this organization has made in the last 4 years (extending StackJack) was made not by either Mullin or Riley, but Chris Cohan himself.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Jul 23, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My favorite inanity
is claiming that the Riley has no discernible plan. Because, you know, it’s really important to have a long term plan in place with new owners coming in. Right.
Secondly, keeping or trading Monta is kind of a moot point. He’ll be better this year if he’s here, and if he’s gone I’m fairly certain it will be for someone who fits better. But nothing hinges on his presence or absence in the way it does on AB’s health. Unless he fails to pick up his clue from the cluecheck room.
If you actually look at this roster, it’s blindingly clear that there IS a plan in place – put together at least a competent team that the new ownership can work with.
by sellWarriorsNowplzthx on Jul 23, 2010 2:44 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
My favorite inanity is claiming that the Riley has no discernible plan.
Yeah, that kinda confuses me. He traded away Maggette, and picked up expiring contracts and TPEs. Our current cap situation now is very manageable for new owners to come in and start implementing whatever their plan is. Yes, he traded away fan favorites, but I think he has given more wiggle room for new ownership to work on building for the future now.
;-P
by Badly Browned on Jul 24, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
But the point is
while Riley got back next to nothing in getting rid of one expiring contract, he gave up much more value while acquring an even bigger contract. Considering that Lee is not young (similar age to Turiaf and Azubuike and 6 years older than Randolph), that doesn’t really seem like a coherent plan.
by San Francisco Slim on Jul 27, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Almost seemed like this article was just looking for excuses to bash the Dubs.
Points out of bunch of good moves Riley made without giving him credit.
Basically the argument is that Riley is the third worst GM in the league because he has no long term plan. Then to defend that claim, he sights the fact that they have retained Nellie as the coach which is bad for a young team because Nellie isn’t known for player development.
Not only does he base this on one reason that doesn’t have a ton to do with Riley, but as counter examples to that claim; Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki. Shoot he even made Baron a better player. Born in 88 so I can’t really comment on Nellie’s effect on Run TMC or the old bucks, seems Moncrief believes Nellie did something for him. I know Popovich has given Nellie credit for his development as a coach.
Just not a sensible way to assess Riley’s stent as GM
Riley is going to rank low simply because his resume doesn't warrent the job
He got the job simply because of his friendship with Nelson and that he was willing to do the job for a lot less money than the rest of the GM’s in the league. He never would have gotten an interview for a GM job anywhere else.
I do agree that Mullin made some bad moves early on but most of the recent stuff was a result of Rowell/Ownership unwillingness to take on salary after he had put his plan in place. (Acquiring Garnett, extending Baron).
Riley is getting a lot of love lately for the Lin signing and that is okay but if you look at his
record, other then the Curry drafting (which most average basketball fans could have done). He has let go of Crawford, Jackson, Maggette, Randolph, Turiaf, Azuibuke, Morrow, and Watson. (I maybe missing some) He has added Lee, Rodmanovich, C. Bell and Gadzuric. He signed D. Wright. It is too early to tell on Udoh but Warriors draft grades were lowest in league. If you look at the fact they won 26 games last year plus the moves 28 feels right. Bird has to be below for taking on Dunleavy/Murphy.



























