Warriors Sign Guard Jannero Pargo
Yahoo's Marc Spears is reporting that the Warriors have signed Pargo to a two year $2.4 million deal.
almost 2 years ago
olympicmike
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Now go get another big and Henry/Udoka and were good to go
But I’d rather have Acie back….
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
If it comes to the point where Henry requests a trade, don’t you think Wallace will say “Screw it, let’s give him his 300k”? Or is he really that stubborn?
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Jul 27, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would a team keep a rookie who demanded a trade?
Thats just my thinking , I think if he wants out he will get out
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
Why? For nostalgia reasons?
There’s a reason he’s bounced around the league. I thought the dude would be decent when he was drafted too.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
actually pargo was pretty good in new orleans
law has handles at least
He had a good year yes
But most of his career was just not that good
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
Haha, the sad thing is that's his career year.
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 30, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He can be a zero and be greater than a negative.
Prago has been a negative most of his recent years.
he’s a better on the ball defender than monta and is more of an energy guy. besides he is coming off the bench and was solid in New Orleans. Kinda got lost in the shuffle in New York being a third option behind Rose AND Heinrich. Hopefully that lack of minutes had more to do with his drop off in numbers. if he can play like he did in New Orleans for us, he will be a good replacement for the loss of CJ and we got him pretty cheap leaving us room to get another piece or two.
by dannyschmanny on Jul 29, 2010 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions
No, he's not a better defender than Monta.
He’s awful at every. He might be the worst player in the NBA. I’m not exaggerating.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 29, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
he shot 50.4 TS% in his best year ever
last season his TS% was 42.9. He is a truly awful shooter, and should never be relied on to provide any offense.
Chris Paul really liked Pargo’s game. I really think Pargo can be solid off the bench. I remember him when he was back in NO, he was killing it, knocking down 3’s and bringing needed energy off the bench when Chris Paul was out.
WOW
I suppose you think Jeremy Lin was a much better backup PG option?
This is for 10 minutes a night, he is about as good a player you can get at that price.
Otherwise, we shoulda just kept CJ
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I suppose you think Jeremy Lin was a much better backup PG option?
Dude had a TS% last season of .429. He’s a poor man’s Troy Hudson. Anybody is a better backup PG option, Lin included.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 27, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Meh. Color me unpersuaded. Dude is old, 6 foot 1, has never forced a ton of steals, and has been a big net negative on his teams in recent years.
Troy. Hudson. Redux.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 27, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess it's a "you get what you pay for"
and if you are shelling out the veterans minimum, you’re not gonna get a great player. I hope he only plays 10 mins a night. In a limited, defined role, he can be effective.
Chances are, though, that everyone gets injured and he will be forced to be our main go-to scoring option, surrounded by 4 D-Leaguers.
He is at least more athletic than Troy Hudson…nobody is that bad….right? please? Plus Troy had a serious injury already.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Championships
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jul 27, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Word. This is lame. Is he a better defender than CJ? That’s the only way I can see this making any sense.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Is he a better defender than CJ?
Who isn’t?
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 28, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not so sure
I really think that poorly of CJ’s defense
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 28, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
yea he is better defender than CJ. CJ was getting good at steals last year, but Pargo is a decent/solid on ball defender
by dannyschmanny on Jul 29, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
CONGO CAAAAASSSSHHHHH
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Jul 27, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Can definitely fill CJ Watson viod
better shooter probably
by Belinelli's the savior on Jul 27, 2010 2:50 PM PDT reply actions
better shooter probably
CJ’s a much better shooter. It’s not even close.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 27, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
better shooter probably
You can go find out with ~4 mouse clicks. CJ Watson is a much better shooter. Pargo was a worse shooter than Brandon Jennings last season, without BJ’s passing, defense, or awesome upside.
Horrible signing. The faster the RIley/Nelson consortium is gone the better.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jul 28, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
hard to compare scoring numbers though to a guy that gets stuck 3rd in the line of PG’s on a team brought in probably as insurance, and a guy who is starting night in and night out.
by dannyschmanny on Jul 29, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Funny, no-one was comparing scoring numbers.
They were comparing shooting numbers.
And Pargo’s are awful.
And he gets very little time BECAUSE that aspect of his game (and others) are awful.
Seems reasonable I guess
I also remember liking Pargo’s game. If memory serves, he’s a streaky shooter and better defensively than you would think. But after a few years in Europe, is he rejuvenated or over the hill? Was he even in the NBA last year?
I’m actually a little surprised Miami didn’t sign him for the minimum.
To say a Derrick Rose-ism, 'He's crazy over the hill.'
He was with the Bulls last season! We are very glad to not have him! His TS% was around 38!
…
Yeah. Sorry about that.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
lol wtf
How is a 31 y.o. journeyman with a .471 career TS% — and trending down — even still in the league? Don’t we have Charlie Bell to fill the role of grizzled veteran PG who sucks?
Blecch. Utterly pointless and stupid move.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 27, 2010 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Don’t we have Charlie Bell to fill the role of grizzled veteran PG who sucks?
Does this mean we’re gonna trade bell along with someone else? I guess Iggy is out of the question now that he’s in the team usa hype?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 27, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Defensive replacement player
The dude has a career total of 5.6 Defensive Win Shares (granted he as a horrendous -2.5 career Offensive Win Shares) and was at 1.1 DWS for the Bulls last season in 13 minutes per game. That’s on par with Monta’s career total of 6.2 DWS yet Pargo only averages 15 mpg for his career compared to Monta’s 34.5 and Curry having played his rookies season at 36.4 mpg and 1.6 DWS.
The Warriors have essentially added 3 above average defensive player at the 1, 2, & 3 spots in the rotation. The addition of Charlie Bell who is has a career total of 5.0 DWS in 20 mpg and had 1.9 DWS in 22.5 mpg last season help us off the bench at the 2 spot. And Dorell Wright who is at 5.6 DWS in his career in 19.5 mpg and was 2.2 DWS in 21 mpg last season.
Not sure about all this Defensive Win Shares non-sense or at least want to know how it’s calculated? http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
by mcwalter44 on Jul 27, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pargo’s plus-minus numbers do suggest that he at least used to be a very strong defender. In 2005-06, the Bulls gave up 5.6 fewer points per 100 possessions with Pargo on the floor; in ‘06-’07, the Hornets gave up 5.7 fewer points per 100 possessions with Pargo on the floor. Those are big numbers, and the fact that they held steady between two different teams suggests that they’re not entirely a fluke.
However, his recent results are not as impressive. The ‘07-’08 Hornets defended equally as well with or without him, and last year’s Bulls gave up 3.3 more points per 100 possessions when Pargo played. Pargo may at one time have been an impact defender, but there’s not much reason to think that he is one now. Add in the ruinous effect he has on offenses, and you’d have a hard time arguing this guy deserves to be in an NBA rotation.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
BTW,
Lacob dissed Monta on KNBR. He said we have two great players to build around, obviously im talking about CURRY and LEE. I think they want to get rid of Ellis, maybe for someone like Iggy.
I would love to make that swap
Career 26.5 Offensive Win Shares
Career 20.8 Defensive Win Shares
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iguodan01.html
Not to mention some sick ass dunks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl2YDpsxSLc
And just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI8kIE7M_5s&feature=PlayList&p=03FFE3D9B03F6C5B&playnext=1&index=9
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
As someone who has been banging the Iguodala drum hard, and repeatedly, I’m coming around to the idea that it ain’t happening. Iguodala is absolutely killing it for the US Team on both ends on the floor. Both Coach K and Coach Collins have been raving about him…
“I think this summer is such a great thing for his career,” Collins said yesterday, while on his way to the airport to catch a flight to Las Vegas to watch Iguodala practice with Team USA. "I’m very excited about being his coach. We need him for the type of defensive team we want to be. I think he can be the best defensive player at his position in the league.
“During the practices, my son Chris [who is helping out head coach Mike Krzyzewski] said that Dre had defended four different positions [Wednesday]. There were situations where he defended the four [big forward], because in international play, the four is often a smaller guy. I think he’s in a great place. Ever since my first conversation with him out in California after I was hired, things have been terrific. I think things are headed in a real good place.”
Iguodala, who signed a 6-year, $80 million contract in the summer of 2008, was equally positive about Collins earlier this week.
“I’m definitely looking forward to the opportunity to play for him,” Iguodala said. “I’m all ears.”
All that would seem to indicate that Iguodala is not headed anywhere right now.
Could all be a big smokescreen to drive up his value, but it seems unlikely. The sad, inexorable fact is that Iguodala is a much better basketball player than Monta, and everyone knows it. Sigh…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 27, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure how it's dissing
As much as it’s not thinking he’s a franchise guy
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
Also is that you saying it's obviously Lee and Curry
Or did he really say that?
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
One of them is obviously Pargo. I’m not sure whether the other is Radmanovic or Gadzuric…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 27, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
you're right
hopefully the new ownership knows whats best and will build around pargo, then clean house and give mike dunleavy a job…
Can't tell me NOTHIN'.
by WarriorThrilla on Jul 28, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How do you build around Monta?
Steph and Lee will make each other more productive, and therefore create a base to build on. Monta doesn’t make anyone better, and that’s kind of the definition of a role-player, not a foundation.
Potential is what you pitch when you have low current value.
Lacob dissed Monta on KNBR. He said we have two great players to build around, obviously im talking about CURRY and LEE.
It’s a dis to not call Monta “great?”
He wasn’t even GOOD last year. He sucked. It’s not a dis to not include him a list of great players.
It’s common freaking sense.
He also said
we want to find a great core 3 and hopefully some moves can be made to make that happen. He said Curry and Lee are great players while Ellis and Biedrins are great talents. Maybe I’m looking into it too much,but I wonder if this means he is of the opinion that Monta should be moved.
This gives me
a warm fuzzy feeling. He’s not down on Monta, nor does he think Monta should “just be moved”.
The warm fuzzies are because it appears that our managing partner is seeing the same team I am, and that most of the thoughtful and analytical folks here have.
Potential is what you pitch when you have low current value.
Agreed 100%.
Not rushing to move players, but recognizing the limits of the guys we have who are limited.
Monta is a great talent. He also, last year, was a bad player.
Sixers would never do Monta for Iggy
They just drafted Evan Turner over Favors and Cousins and he is pretty much a straight SG (though he could play some SF if need be).
That said, the Sixers are always looking to shed some salary, so it would be possible to either work a three-team deal or something a little different.
It will be a cheap buyout
They don’t want to make long-term deals, because of upcoming new CBA. There might not be NBA season next year for all we know.
Pargo could be a 1-year rental, while CJ or Morrow would be longer term deals, hence more expensive.
well you get what you pay for
hopefully the second year is a team option. 1.2 is pretty much the veteran’s minimum right? I wonder if part of it is paid for the league a la austin croshere when we signed him a while back.
Really hope we didn’t use our MLE on him
Goal: 8 seed!
For vets with more than a few years in the league, the NBA picks up part of the paycheck as a means of preventing teams from avoiding vets in favor of cheaper rookies. Always the case. He’s only counting about 800k towards the tax threshold. Granted, I don’t think it’s an 800k well spent, but it’s not a whole lot of money to waste by NBA standards.
He said we have two great players to build around,
maybe he meant Montay and DLee? it’s kinda hard to call a second year player
great , promising would be more accurate.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 27, 2010 3:16 PM PDT reply actions
Apparently has the same agent as Admunson
maybe, that’s a good thing?
J.
What’s with all this monta ellis hate???u guys are stoopid if you think we should get rid of him….he’s prolly are best player as of right now and u guys act like players like him come around every year…I hope we don’t trade monta ellis…..
by fillmoe mike on Jul 27, 2010 3:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
He’s our best player if he gets 30 shots a game. He won’t anymore.
'Like' my band. I mean, it'd be awesome if you did that.
I would say the opposite is true
Monta has been much more efficient when he’s taken less shots per game—thus, better.
That said, I hope he’s our third best player this year, while also being as efficient as he was in 2008. In fact, Monta probably was our third best player in 2008, behind Baron and Jackson.
Monta probably was our third best player in 2008
yeah. And he’s not a leadership guy which is fine if he’s the third option.
Potential is what you pitch when you have low current value.
Have you ever been to this site?
A lot of us think that Monta isn’t really that good.
Look at it this way- he can’t be the primary scoring option, and he can’t guard his position.
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 27, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
A lot of us
Way to talk for everyone..
I didn’t say all of us, I said a lot of us.
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 28, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Some hate him and some like him
We’ve had these polls before and most want to keep him
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
if Monta is your third best player
you have a good team. keep monta. nuff said.
+1
If Curry ends up as good as we hope and Lee goes for 20 and 10 were good to go in the starting lineup
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
I will take that
I wouldn’t complain, I’d be happy with 40 wins this year
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
It's about constantly improving.
You’re not gonna win a championship overnight. It takes time. Our first step is to make the playoffs continually and build off that. Find out what we’re lacking and keep improving. Then we can start talking championships and what not.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Jul 27, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
ya but this has been the warriors philosophy forever
get a young core build around them blah blah. the problem is one of two things happen.
1. Our players get good, and then we pay them way too much money and cant afford to keep them. So we trade them for garbage and expiring contracts
2. Nellie has a problem with them and they are forced off the team.
im sick of this garbage approach to managing this franchise. at one point you just have to throw all your eggs in one basket and go for the big contract guys. maybe you land a big name free agent, and then you attract other guys. maybe you don’t land anyone and your stuck like the nets were this off season but at least your not settling for rebuilding every single year.
you are describing something very different mekanikal
it is about getting better over time – nobody gets better overnight. The frustration you are describing is legit but not what is currently happening. We have two really good players to build around in Lee and Curry, Lee may not improve much but Curry may be the star you wishj we had. We have new owners who will bring in a new coach.
I suggest a moratorium on all criticism about the dubs doing the same old same old with the new owners here.
it just doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me
why bring in a veteran like David Lee for a guy with huge upside (randolph) if our FO doesn’t think were ready for a playoff push? if we aren’t going to fully commit to this team NOW then we shouldn’t have traded away our future. With Lee our window has closed dramatically he is still young but hes not that young. if our FO feels like we need to build this team around curry which i believe we should and they bring in a vet like Lee then we need to bring in everyone else asap to make this happen.
because Lee is very good
AR is pretty good and may someday be very good too – but he is a long way away. In my opinion, building around curry means getting veterans who are in their prime (Lee) or entering their prime (D. Wright). Hopefully it will also mean getting Iguodala down the road. Getting someone of Iggy’s caliber this year or next would meet most people’s criteria of improving ASAP like you are asking for.
Surrounding him with projects who may or may not pan out is not building around him.
boston and probably Miami won overnight
teams like Dallas and PHX always make the playoffs and try to get better each year but always have their window close on them
Being a Warriors fan is like cutting yourself... without the cutting
Boston is IMO one of the only exceptions.
Miami, if you’re referring to the current team, doesn’t even qualify. They have yet to even play a game together. If they do win it all however, I guess you can count them too. But I still think it’s more so luck because LeBron and Co. decided to take their talents to South Beach rather than somewhere else…
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Jul 29, 2010 4:03 AM PDT up reply actions
but thats all this franchise ever seems to do is walk
we have only ran once in the last 17 years
Actually...
we ran once back when disco was playing on the radio and our best player was shooting free-throws underhand. All we’ve done lately is take a little stroll with Baron, before getting right back on all fours.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
If Monta is guarding 2s
you have a bad defense. Trade Monta. Nuff said
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 27, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree but only for something of value
no more salary dumps please
Yeah
I hope he can have some good offense this season to actually drive up his value.
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 27, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Guess which one is you Rev?
I nominate you to a #3 – Player-Hater:
With the irrational way that this fan hates a particular player, you’d think that the player had committed some unforgivable transgression against the fan’s family. In fact, this fan simply hates the way a certain player plays, carries himself and presents himself to the media – so much so that the fan wants this player to fail as much as he wants anything else in life. Sometimes, the player can be on the fan’s favorite team and he’ll gladly take a loss if it means this player has failed in a particularly egregious fashion.
Am I not allowed to talk about Monta
because I think he sucked last season?
That’s stupid.
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 28, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Sometimes, the player can be on the fan’s favorite team and he’ll gladly take a loss if it means this player has failed in a particularly egregious fashion.
I definitely don’t do this.
I didn’t stop liking Monta because he has too many tattoos or what he said about Curry. I stopped liking him because he really sucked it up last season, but there were a lot of fans who thought he was All-Star caliber.
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 28, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Ditto.
I stopped liking him because of his terrible on-court decision-making.
(His off-court decision-making – not just the scooter, but his early comments about Curry, too – leaves something to be desired as well, but I’m more willing to overlook that).
Good Point...
The question is… would Monta be ok with being the 3rd best player on the team?
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Pacquiao fans type MANNY CHANT in Ebay!
He was on the playoff team
Or 4th, however you wanna spin it back then. He was 2nd/3rd the year after. It’s like he is Iverson who refused to not start
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
but could he go back to it
when one of them is younger than him and he’s been in the league for a few years? It’s a very different situation.
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 29, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah - but that was in his second season, on a team with a clear alpha do -
- where he was the young kid proving he deserved to be there.
I’m not sure he still has such a positive attitude.
Some hate him and some like him
and some think he.da.boss
play like a 1 man guy
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 27, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahahaa.
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 29, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
u guys are stoopid
rofl
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Jul 27, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Pargo is not supposed to be in this league anymore. He sucked last year and signing him for TWO years is a bad joke. He is clearly way over his “prime”. This is so unnecessary…good god it really enrages me. He won’t be helping us a lick and almost any other signing would have been better.
"It really is a choice of whatever rotten fruit you fancy least." (Kelly Dwyer about NBA Franchise owner)
You could have had me up until
“Kelly Dwyer”
Potential is what you pitch when you have low current value.
Blecch.
Which package would you rather have:
A) two years of C.J. Watson
or
B) two years of Jannero Pargo and $4.6 million
If you answered A, then you’re interested in fielding a competitive basketball team. If you answered B, then you’re the Golden State Warriors. How do you shell out $80 million for David Lee and then take downgrades like this for such marginal savings?
Blecch. Dumb, gross signing.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
by onlxn on Jul 27, 2010 4:30 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
indeed, would have been much better to keep CJ.
Plus someone else is gonna have to get a mohawk now.
by Billy Frijoles on Jul 27, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
We let CJ go for…. Pargo?
Larry Riley needs to get axed. Also letting Ammo go was a terrible choice
This is my sig, what do I do with it?
by dubzfan on Jul 27, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No.
We let CJ for this guy, and additional cap room to sign additional players and flexibility. This team is not finished yet. GSOM where HYPERBOLE HAPPENS!!!
P.S. I agree we shouldn’t of let Ammo go.
In light of the Pargo signing
letting CJ walk is a much worse thing than Morrow
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 27, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Saving the money enables them to get a guy like Amundson and another guy to fill out the roster. CJ is better than Pargo, but they enable more depth this way. Plus we already have Lin, who I’m not as hyped up about as a lot of people, but he could possibly end up being our Goran Dragic
+1
I also hear we’re in talks for Joey Graham.
he played really well in the playoffs last year for the nugz
i think he had 19 one game in place if kenyon martin
Eh.
I think you’re taking the short view.
I don’t like Pargo. I don’t want to see him on the court. He’s clearly worse than Bell. We have a problem at backup PG unless Lin is better than expected.
But CJ Watson wasn’t the answer. Letting CJ go was reasonable as a stand-alone move.
The team will hopefully be in a position to continue to improve going forward, particularly when we’re heading towards a new and uncertain CBA, not bogging the team down with limited, average players who aren’t part of our long-term plan makes sense.
I don’t like adding Pargo. But it has nothing to do with CJ.
by Ronaldinho on Jul 27, 2010 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. You can’t have CJ backing up Curry and Ellis. It just doesn’t work. We all remember the steals and breakaways, and the games when he gets really hot, but with our two guards, we need backups that can play defense. CJ most certainly cannot.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Letting CJ go was reasonable as a stand-alone move.
From what perspective is passing on a good third guard for two years and $7 million “reasonable”?
Are we trying to win next year? I’m not convinced that we should be, but the Lee trade/sign certainly suggests that we are. CJ Watson would’ve helped us win… he’s basically the only Warrior that’s moved the dial on that front in the last couple seasons, thanks to his abilities to force and limit turnovers.
What’s the downside of matching on CJ? Are we under the impression that a cheap, top-tier backup guard would be hard to move, considering that the Lakers, Heat and Celtics, to name just three teams, have PG questions? Even if we decided to dump the guy in February, we’d get more than the piddling TPE Chicago just gave us.
CJ’s not an All-Star, but he’s a pretty good player who came extremely cheap. That’s the exact kind of player you should stockpile heading into a new and uncertain CBA — a moveable piece that gives you flexibility. This team needs assets, and at that price, CJ was one.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
How do you shell out $80 million for David Lee and then take downgrades like this for such marginal savings?
Ummm…Because end of the bench players don’t contribute significantly to playoff runs, while in their prime starting PFs can? Look, you can disagree with this signing and with the Lee signing on perfectly rational thought processes. However, rationalizing your dislike of the Lee signing by saying “Oh noes! We lost CJ Watson!” is pretty silly.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jul 27, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
What is silly is calling CJ Watson an “end of the bench” player, when he’s basically the only Warrior who played consistently winning basketball last year. CJ is two or three wins more valuable than Jannero Pargo in a season of backup minutes… are we so convinced David Lee is going to bring us to the promised land that we’re happy to piss those two or three wins away?
Crappy teams need to stockpile cheap assets. We’re dumping them to add a monstrously expensive asset. I hope it works, but I don’t think it will. Undervaluing CJ Watson is the exact kind of thing the Warriors can’t afford to be doing.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Cheap assets are only valuable if they help you acquire better players, who by virtue of being better, are going to be expensive. The guys we dumped were not helping us win. Moreover, David Lee is not at all “monstrously expensive” given his production and looking at his salary in the context of the the other contracts being handed out around the league.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Cheap assets are only valuable if they help you acquire better players, who by virtue of being better, are going to be expensive.
“More expensive” does not always mean “better”. The ‘09-’10 Thunder’s core didn’t feature a single high-priced guy. Now, obviously things are easier when you get to draft a Durant. But the point is, you don’t always have to pay through the nose for value. There are bargains to be found. CJ was one of those bargains.
The guys we dumped were not helping us win.
Depends on what you mean.
Were CJ and Morrow making the Warriors a good team? No, of course not. They’re not stars, and perhaps not even starters.
Were CJ and Morrow making the Warriors better? I’d argue that they were, significantly so in CJ’s case. In each of the last two seasons, the Warriors played more competitive basketball with CJ Watson on the floor… ditto for Morrow. CJ, in fact, had the 49th-best adjusted plus-minus in the NBA over the last two seasons. That stat isn’t the be-all and end-all, but it’s not totally irrelevant, either.
Moreover, David Lee is not at all "monstrously expensive" given his production and looking at his salary in the context of the the other contracts being handed out around the league.
A smart team would hold itself to a higher standard than the contracts of Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay. Lee’s a very good player, and will help the Warriors, but will he help them enough to merit being the second-highest paid player in team history? I’m not convinced.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Onlxn
I’m not sure if you’ve been posting less recently than in the past years, but your commentary is generally spot-on. Please post more.
Like you, I’m generally confused about the off-season strategy of this team. In a summer where ownership changes, one would expect little organizational change until the new owners are in place and ready to execute a long-term plan. Especially when one considers the extent injuries played in last year’s team, I would think the team would want to see everyone play together, at least for a short while. More importantly, the stockpiling of assets is especially relevant to a team like the W’s. Their failure to “look-ahead” to position themselves for a trading deadline frenzy or for big free agents is what forces them into 3-for-1 sign and trades for $80M players (a general no-no in any sport) who are not top tier talent. By doing so, they take themselves out of the running for that top tier talent when they do occasionally become available.
I don’t think that W’s fans in general understand that cheap assets such as Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf, Wright, and maybe Udoh, combined with the expiring deals of VladZuric and a 1st round draft pick or two (valuable when trading with the W’s) might actually be enough to net the W’s a superstar. They consistently sell themselves short.
For a bad analogy, the W’s are like a teenage boy, pimpled, gangly, and awkward. When he looks in the mirror, he doesn’t like what he sees, so he doesn’t do it often. He figures that he has no chance with the cute girls in class, and he just talks with the not-so-attractive ones. He’ll never know if he has any chance with the cute and popular ones because he doesn’t bother trying. But the cute girls are starting to notice. His skin is clearing up, he’s more muscular, his voice lowers, and he projects more confidence. But because he doesn’t realize this, he’ll just keep on working the unattractive crowd, and the cute girls who might want to be flirted with are avoided, and thus they gravitate to the popular boys.
I don’t think that W’s fans in general understand that cheap assets such as Randolph, Azubuike, Turiaf, Wright, and maybe Udoh, combined with the expiring deals of VladZuric and a 1st round draft pick or two (valuable when trading with the W’s) might actually be enough to net the W’s a superstar. They consistently sell themselves short.
Which superstar? Paul’s pretty much the only one who’s likely to move soon. (Sorry – Carmelo isn’t a superstar.)
Keeping assets with the hope of being able to flip them into something is not a plan. I mean, look at the Knicks. They’ve spent the last three years planning for this summer, hoping to land Lebron. Whoops. Instead they ended up with an overrated guy who’s probably not any better than the guy they shipped out.
How many players are there who put you in title contention if you can surround them with merely average players? LeBron? Maybe Paul. Maybe Howard. That’s it. Wade? Nope. D. Will? Nope. Kobe? Nope. Nobody on the Celts.
I think a better superstar-acquiring plan is to build the best winner you can, while being alert for opportunities. I think being a winning team with Lee makes you more attractive to top players than being a losing team with more “tradeable” assets like Randolph, Azubuike, and Turiaf.
(I do agree with you about Onixn, though: post more! Even though I disagree with you about some stuff, I’d much rather disagree with people who challenge me to think hard about my positions than with a lot of people I disagree with).
Thanks to you and Cliffy for the kind words, but it seems to me this place has been humming along fine in my (relative) absence.
Keeping assets with the hope of being able to flip them into something is not a plan. I mean, look at the Knicks. They’ve spent the last three years planning for this summer, hoping to land Lebron. Whoops. Instead they ended up with an overrated guy who’s probably not any better than the guy they shipped out.
I look at the Knicks and I see a probable eighth-seed with surprising flexibility in the future… that team adds up pretty nice from where I’m sitting. (Lee’s the younger and healthier player, but I really don’t think he’s as good as Amar’e, whose defense is bad, but far less bad.) Would you rather be the Knicks or the Wizards, a team that has spent the last several years pretending they were just another veteran away from competing?
I think a better superstar-acquiring plan is to build the best winner you can, while being alert for opportunities.
I agree with this.
I think being a winning team with Lee makes you more attractive to top players than being a losing team with more "tradeable" assets like Randolph, Azubuike, and Turiaf.
I disagree with this, not because it’s not better to be a winning team than a losing one, but I don’t believe that the difference between Lee and Randolph/Buike/Turiaf is the difference between “winning team” and “losing team”. Will Lee create more value than the latter trio this season? Almost certainly. But if he’s taking us from 31-51 to 37-45, is that really worth all that much?
This is a team whose starting lineup features only one player, Dorell Wright, who projects to be even an average defender. (Biedrins can maybe get back there if he curbs his foul rate.) Monta was massively ineffective last season… he’d be less so under a coach who did even a token job of structuring an offense, but there’s not much reason to think he’ll be a big asset. Lee will help the offense, but the departure of Maggette means fewer free throws for everyone, which mitigates a lot of that help. This starting lineup is just not very good. We’d need a good bench to have a real shot at competing, and minus effective pieces like CJ and Morrow, we’re just not likely to have one.
(FWIW, I regard Buike and Turiaf, as much as I liked them, as essentially fungible talent. Non-impact guys on short contracts… you move guys like that for value without blinking. CJ and Morrow were genuinely useful young guys who we could’ve had for three seasons on the cheap. I’d place them in a different category.)
I don’t think the current roster is going to make the playoffs. Given that, I’d rather have stuck with a cheaper, deeper, younger, higher-upside nucleus, that frankly might’ve won almost as many games as this one. In fact, to me, the move wasn’t adding Lee’s contract… it was subtracting Monta’s. If we’re 7-12 and spinning our wheels a month into the season, are we really gonna be psyched that we owe Monta Ellis and David Lee $124 million?
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
If we’re 7-12 and spinning our wheels a month into the season, are we really gonna be psyched that we owe Monta Ellis and David Lee $124 million?
I wouldn’t worry a month into the season, personally. Also, we can guarantee that much of the problem will be due to our bad defense. That can be largely remedied with Monta #1 playing well at least on offense and #2 us trading him for someone who can play defense at the 2.
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It's a bad record.
"We didn't win our independence from the British to watch Aaron Rowand hit this bad,"-KNBR caller.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 30, 2010 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I disagree with this, not because it’s not better to be a winning team than a losing one, but I don’t believe that the difference between Lee and Randolph/Buike/Turiaf is the difference between "winning team" and "losing team". Will Lee create more value than the latter trio this season? Almost certainly. But if he’s taking us from 31-51 to 37-45, is that really worth all that much?
I recognize that I’m on the more optimistic side of things going into this season, but I see estimates like 37 wins – if healthy – and I’m totally boggled.
Just making comparisons to last year’s teams. We won 26 games (although had a pythagorean of 31 wins). Lee may be a bad defensive 4, but he’s not going to be worse than Mags was last year, and we’re no longer getting clobbered on the boards.. A full year of Curry as he was at the end of last season? Biedrins healthy?
It just seems really pessimistic to look at all that and say it’s only worth ten wins over what we had last year (or less, depending on how you feel about pythagorean analysis).
It just seems really pessimistic to look at all that and say it’s only worth ten wins over what we had last year
Maybe. But I think you’re discounting the contributions of some of the guys who won’t be returning.
The wins-based metric I find to be the most convincing is WARP over at Basketball Prospectus. By their measure, CJ, Morrow, Ronny, Buike, Maggette and Randolph were worth 14.7 wins last year. Lee, Dorell Wright, Charlie Bell, Gadzuric and Pargo were worth… 11.3 wins, in large part because the three latter players rated well below replacement level. According to WARP, we’ve actually gotten worse.
You can quibble with this in a number of ways, but I’m not sure that any of those quibbles is rock-solid. If you look at plus-minus data, you’d conclude that WARP may be overrating Maggette and Randolph. Problem is, by those some lights, you’d have to conclude that it’s overrating Lee, as well, and that it’s underrating CJ and Morrow. Dorell Wright will obviously contribute more wins in greater minutes, but then that’s true of pretty much every guy we lost, as well. If you set aside Bell, Gadzuric and Pargo aside, our incoming players total 15.7 WARP, which looks pretty good. But as things stand, all three guys look to be in our rotation, so we can’t just set them aside. You can say WARP is a meaningless stat, and, well, I don’t have the statistical chops to prove otherwise. But I don’t think it’s meaningless.
The guys who left had a lot to do with last year’s few bright spots… the only returning Warriors who really created a lot of value were Curry and, in limited minutes, Reggie Williams. I think Biedrins can be an asset if healthy and free-throw-sane, and I think Monta can be less of a detriment if somebody actually coaches the team, but as things stand, I don’t think either of those things are givens.
I can envision a scenario where this roster produces a winning record. If Nellie is fired and replaced by someone competent, if the team has excellent health luck, if Curry can cut his foul rate and turnovers, if Biedrins’s head is on straight, if Monta will accept a reduced role, if Reggie Williams is for real, if Brandan Wright can produce like he did before his injury… sure, I can see 45-37. But an awful lot of variables have to break our way. I think some of them will. I doubt all of them will.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Do you really think Maggette will play as well this season as last? I predict he will be injured as often as ever and less efficient.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
No, I wouldn’t expect him to be as good as he was last season. But Maggette has always been pretty damn good from a pure production standpoint… it’s not like he was a useless player before last year.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
He was almost useless, considering how bad his defense was. He was a bench player getting paid almost like an all-star. Last year, yeah, he was earning his money. But just on principle, I would have moved him the same way the Dubs did. His trade value was about as high as it was going to get, I think.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
He was almost useless, considering how bad his defense was.
This was never true of Maggette before he came to Oakland and was forced to play a position he couldn’t play. Maggette’s not a great player — his defense is a negative, and he’s not nearly good enough to make a crappy team decent. But he’s good, and when allowed to play his natural position, he’s a solid positive for a team.
just on principle, I would have moved him the same way the Dubs did. His trade value was about as high as it was going to get, I think.
I agree.
But here’s the problem. Both of your points about Maggette apply to David Lee. Lee’s defense was so bad that he didn’t really help the Knicks last year (to be fair, like Maggette, he was playing out of position). And we certainly bought high on Lee, and paid him a good bit more than any other team showed interest in giving him. I lived in Connecticut for a stretch, and am friends with a number of Knick fans… they have pretty much the same feelings about Lee that most Warrior fans have about Maggette.
I’m not literally equating the two — David Lee is a better player than Corey Maggette, and he’ll do more for the Warriors than Maggette did. But any evaluation that rates Maggette as a loser and Lee as a winner is pretty deeply misguided. They’re both guys who put up eye-popping numbers, but don’t help their teams as much as those numbers suggest, thanks to poor defense and positional problems. Dumping Corey Maggette and adding David Lee isn’t any sort of panacea.
Golden State Worriers: Angst & Analysis
Lee is younger and healthier. But your point about his bad defense is hard to argue with. I was somewhat against bringing David Lee in, but I think he makes us better either way. Also, he’s a great rebounder, which means his defense isn’t all bad. Hopefully, he can step up his defense a bit more and do okay against PF’s instead of centers.
As far as his pay, you agree he’s better than Maggette… you must also consider he’s a big. Bigs always get paid more. If we got a bad deal on Lee, it’s not nearly as bad as Maggs.
Personally, I think we did okay with Lee’s contract. I have no problem, all things considered. We’re a bad team that needs some decent players. Curry and Lee will complement each other. It’ll pan out, I think. After a couple contracts expire, we may have a group of guys that will look inviting to an all-star calibur player that we can afford.
I also predict that Lee’s rebounding on the defensive end and his pick and roll/ high FG% on offense will help us a great deal. Maggette only helped some, as his +/- attests. The guy was a black hole on offense, which ruined the flow. Lee won’t do that.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
I hope Jeremy Lin is better than expected because this guy sucks
I also hope this allows us to sign Admunson.
First thought: HE'S STILL IN THE NBA??!
Actual analysis: Yawn. We’re paying him the bare minimum to fill a roster spot for two years. There’s nothing wrong with it, but there’s nothing terribly exciting about it, either.
"I never watched baseball on TV. It's slow and boring. I'm not a fan. Never was." - Jeff Kent
FREE POSEY IS FREE
Maybe the Dubs needed a backup PG to suck, so they could play Lin to make fans happy. ha ha Also, having a veteran who, while being a bad player, is good for the culture here, that’s not so bad. Maybe he’s got a good attitude and has played for teams with the type of play the Dubs want to pick up. It is the veteran’s minimum, and do we really want another PG to play over Lin? I like to watch rookie-underdogs play, and Lin, coming from Harvard, being undrafted and such, is a guy I want to see play. Who cares that they signed Pargo, as long as he doesn’t play. He’s a filler who will keep the bench warm and not make waves, I hope.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
I like to watch rookie-underdogs play
then why not join the Bakersfield State of Mind blog instead? or go down to the playground and watch the homeboys blow up?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 29, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
You know what's more likely to make the fans happy than playing Lin?
Winning more games.
And the difference between somebody like Pargo and somebody like Arroyo at 12 minutes a game is 4-5 wins.
You don’t think 4-5 wins – the difference between making the playoffs and not, the difference between home-court advantage and not – will make the fans happy?
Or you really think that people are so obsessed about the ethnicity of an undrafted rookie that they won’t care if the team missing the playoffs because, hey, at least we’re playing an asian-american local boy?
and do we really want another PG to play over Lin?
If that PG is better? Yes.
I like to watch rookie-underdogs play, and Lin, coming from Harvard, being undrafted and such, is a guy I want to see play.
When following a terrible team, I find this to be true, largely because there’s the hope that the ‘rookie-underdog’ might turn out to be a good player and we’ve already seen the old guys lose games. The honeymoon period between ‘rookie-underdog’ and ‘why is he still on the roster?’ is pretty short though. Better than either option is to win games. I suspect that fans of good teams don’t spend a whole lot of time wishing they’d see more of their teams’ respective Lins and the like. They’r’e too busy being entertained by actual basketball.
the ‘rookie-underdog’
A Harvard grad? I’d say he’s more like one of the privileged overdog class, far from the ghetto or the trailer park.? When we start rooting for ivy leaguers to come in and take money from poor homeboys we need a new dictionary?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 29, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
“Poor homeboys,” huh? My take on it is that he worked hard on school, which makes for a much better role model. Also, coming from the ivy league, he is an NBA underdog. I’m not rooting for him to get rich. I’m rooting for him to play well at basketball. All the “poor homeboys,” wouldn’t be so poor if culturally and politically, there was more emphasis on education.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
he is an NBA underdog
Since when is a palo alto yuppie graduating harvard an underdog? put him in a trailer park in alabama then he’d fit your description.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 30, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
The way you are categorizing the term
underdogis flawed. You’re talking about Lin as a non-underdog in the ultimate sense, but I’m talking about him being an underdog as an NBA player. What’s worse, your premise is flawed, seeing as you seem to see playing well in the NBA as ultimate success, I take it. The “poor homeboys” are, to you, ultimately successful just for making the NBA? How about if instead of that, they got an education, got a job, got married, had kids, got a dog and a white picket fence? That’s more successful than, for example, Michael Jordan, who turned out to be a cheater, is now divorced and judging by his HOF speech, suffers from an inferiority complex (pathetically). I’ll take the white picket fence and some self-confidence over Jordan’s life any day.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
Michael Jordan, who … by his HOF speech, suffers from an inferiority complex (pathetically)
Stuart Smalley saw things clearer than I thought at the time:
Stuart Smalley: “Because I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggonit, people like me!”
Michael Jordan: “Because I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggonit, people like me!”
+1
I agree. This trade doesn’t move me one way or another. I still think there is one more big trade to be made. HOPE.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Pacquiao fans type MANNY CHANT in Ebay!
Great. The Warriors picked up a guy that went from being the one of the worst players on the Chicago Bulls to being one of the worst players on the Hornets… only to end up as one of the worst players on Chicago, again, last season. Handshakes all around then?
Oh yeah. My name is Jannero Pargo. Basketball fans don’t know ’bout my horrid inability to score, despite my total enthusiasm when it comes to throwing leather balls in the general orientation of a basketball hoop.
As long as everyone has fun, I guess.
Did Morrow get ejected???
What a waste
There is still a few more attractive options on the market, I don’t see why they settled for Pargo.
Unless they plan on Lin coming in and getting the majority of the backup minutes, this makes no sense.
I see Pargo, in a suit, with good seats to each game this season.
Don't get it...
Tolly is way better. Why we need another PG for? We already have three.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jul 27, 2010 6:42 PM PDT reply actions
Well
Charlie Bell is a non-factor, Jeremy Lin isn’t read yet. That really only leaves Stephen Curry.
The thing that is so stupid about this is that Pargo might be the only guy they could sign that is worse than Charlie Bell
Pro-Skub for life
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 27, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Riley has done an awesome JOB!
the best kept secret is Gadzurich and Radman’s expiring contracts…if they are considering moving Monta, he could be paired with anyone of those players in the deal and land a very good player…some good player on another team is bound to get unhappy between here and the trade deadline.
funny stuff
I find it funny that a writer for nba.com/slam magazine actually compared stephen curry to jannero pargo when he was coming into the draft. Now we have both of them, lol.
by Indosf on Jul 27, 2010 7:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
First thing i thought about when I heard about this signing.
Actually i was thinking about that article the other day…random….
by JR Repertoire on Jul 28, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Most. Pointless. Signing. Ever.
Why would an organization that’s made a living pulling above average (or at least average) players from the D-league give a two-year contract to one of the worst players available?
Why?
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 27, 2010 7:30 PM PDT reply actions
maybe the second year's an option
plus the nba is paying a third of the salary according to jae
Goal: 8 seed!
Jannero Pargo sounds like he could be an Eastern European combo guard. In an alternate (better) reality Pargo is accurate out to 28 feet and has the solid feel for a motion offense that allows him to play the combo-guard role that seems common in the Euro-leagues. Unfortunately, in this reality, he’s a over-the-hill not-much-of-a-distributor-not-anything-of-a-shooter-or-scorer point guard out of Arkansas who would have to be the augmented hybrid child of a young Gary Payton, Alvin Robertson and Michael Cooper on the defensive end to make up for his utter lack of offense.
by jae on Jul 28, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope so
Are there any other ways this could be seen as a decent move? Future trade piece maybe? His stats are terrible.
The only way this is decent is if he has a really attractive wife.
Or if he’s best friends with Chris Paul and convinces him to force a trade to Golden State.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 27, 2010 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions
the c.b.a. for vet minimum salaries
teams pay up to the minimum for four-year vet (≈ 750 k), the vets eligible for more get the balance subsidized. only the portion that the team pays counts against either the cap or lux tax.
hes also from the bay area
he went to logan high school in union city
Wrong. He went to Hayward High. I know, because I went there. His jersey is retired.
'Like' my band. I mean, it'd be awesome if you did that.
oh really i always thought he went to logan..
well hayward, union city is basically the same.
The hell is wrong with you guys?
Seriously, I can’t believe so many Warrior fans have such a man-crush on C.J. and Morrow. Maybe you all got too attached because of all the injuries and how well they played in the meantime.
They’re both highly LIMITED players. The Pargo and Wright signings have made us a lot more than just young guys that can put the ball in the basket from time to time.
I liked how C.J. played, but he was NOT a game-changer. I would prefer Ramon Sessions(who just got traded for nothing) over him. The Pargo signing isn’t going to all of a sudden make us a championship team, but the flexibility that his cheap contract brings us is definitely a plus.
This doesn't make any sense.
The choice wasn’t CJ or Pargo, it was CJ and any other available player. The Warriors managed to choose one of the worst ones, and give him a two-year contract in the process.
Any number of D-league players could provide the value Pargo can for a fraction of the cost.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 28, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Morrow is about the best pure shooter in the league, he was “home grown” and a good guy. Shouldn’t Warriors fans be upset? Granted, I don’t entirely disagree with the decision to let him go… but I don’t agree with it either. It’s good he can hang with Randolph, living so near him. Also, he’ll be incredibly valued on the Nets, as they’ll need his offense more than we do.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
Pargo 2.4 mil 2 yrs, 2011 2nd rd draft pick, Trade exception > Watson 6.5 mil 2 yrs
Saving 4.1 million dollars! A draft pick (only second round) but remember Watson was not even drafted! Hopefully we use the trade exception. Plus it seemed Watson didnt even want to be a Warrior.
+1
What are people getting so worked up about a backup point guard for? Pargo and Lin will probably combine for 15 minutes per game max this season. You guys are all tripping off of losing Watson, which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense because we won’t be losing much. We gain a 2nd rounder and an exception, which could be important in a trade and could help in the future. Are you going to miss Watsons reckless driving that much? Too much nostalgia and attachment to a backup point guard. Lin could very well end up being just as good if not better than Watson in the near future. Pargo isn’t that good, but he’s not going to even play enough minutes to have much of an effect anyways (positive or negative). I’d imagine if Curry came out, then Reggie and/or Monta would do a lot of the ball handling. Really not a big deal at all. This also allows them to pick up a guy like Amundson and a cheap backup small forward. If we had re-signed Watson, then we wouldn’t be able to do that.
by duballers23 on Jul 28, 2010 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's bad process.
The Warriors just instantly acquired $2.4M in sunk cost. The only hope is that Pargo doesn’t actually play. Pargo made Chicago worse by almost two wins last season.
Let me repeat that. The Warriors just have a two-year contract to a guy who was so bad that, by being on the floor, cost his team two wins.
That’s indefensible.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 28, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
According to jae, it’s closer to $800K per year, as the league will foot some of the bill. IIRC, jae also suggested that there might be a team opt-out after year one. If we’re talking $800K for a year, it’s less annoying, though still a bit of a head-scratcher.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 28, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
What I'm seeing is a player option for the second year.
But jae is right, the cost to the Warriors is about $1.7M over the life of the contract.
Still awful, especially if it’s a player-option. Soooooo many talented players to fill that spot with, why waste it on an old and horrible one.
Gah.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 28, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
It's really hard to understand what the team gains by adding him -
- especially since we already have Bell.
He should never set foot on the court, so I’m not too worried about it, but it is odd that the team would throw money at him. Why? What good does it accomplish?
Were they worried he wasn’t going to be available in a month?
It’s a bad move. It’s not a major bad move. It’s not going to blow up in the team’s face (although the failure to go after someone better, if they don’t go after someone better, might). It’s just sort of … pointless.
Makes me really hope that Lin can make the leap to the NBA level, because, well, we may need him.
Signing a bench warmer to the veteran’s minimum will blow up in the Dubs face? Really? lol This move is irrelevant.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
What is the minimum for a first year player out of the D-league? Is it less than $800k?
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Well, he said it's not going to blow up in thier face, but, I digress.
This move should be irrelevant, it should be a cheap look at a guy who might do something. Instead, by being awful, it’s made itself relevant in all the wrong ways.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jul 29, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Reading comprehension 101
When somebody writes:
It’s not going to blow up in the team’s face
the response:
Signing a bench warmer to the veteran’s minimum will blow up in the Dubs face? Really? lol
doesn’t make any sense.
Maybe you should read posts before you “lol” on them.
It’s very strange that you “lol” a post that calls this signing “pointless,” by saying the signing is “irrelevant.”
Sometimes reading comprehension is a good thing, no?
monta doesnt need many shots to score
Monta is one of the most efficient combo gaurds in nba history……someone on this board had the nerve to say he was a bad player last year while averaging 25 points 4 or 5 rebounds and 4 or 5 assist with 2 steals a game….yeah he was bad alright..bad meaning good….
What more do yall want from ellis????
Trust me on this 1….he’s should be our #1 option because he can score in many different ways…..david lee can’t score in as many ways as ellis..he’s prolly not even a better finisher than ellis…I love how u guys use ur heart and not ur brains when it comes to evaluating talent…
If you think monta is our third best player you guys are smoking rocks..lol
by fillmoe mike on Jul 28, 2010 7:47 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Your right
Monte doesnt need many shots to score… which is why it is SO FRUSTRATING that he actually does take “many shots” to score.
His poor shot selection has hurt this team, and neutralized the positive impact that his amazing scoring talents bring to this team.
This is why him as a pg/decision maker simply does not work. I want to see him come back next year but only as a clear 2/non-decision maker. Let’s let Curry decide who the #1 option is on any given play and we should be better than ok with Monta and Lee.
Oh yea, this fanshot is about Jannero Pargo – If this is not part of a bigger plan to get a better piece, Im realy scratching my head at this move
by WestCoastWarrior on Jul 28, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Monta is one of the most efficient combo gaurds in nba history
I don’t think you understand the word efficient.
What more do yall want from ellis????
I’ll make it simple for you.
I want Monta to miss fewer shots, and to pass the ball when double- or triple-teamed if one of his teammates has an open look.
Has everyone forgotten
how our team looked in the 1st half of the year, and how Ellis was the ONLY REASON we were staying in games? If Ellis wasn’t shooting the ball 22-23 times a game, we weren’t in half those games – its as simple as that. Yeah, he dribbled too much at times, and yeah, he definitely passed up on some open guys.
But it seems like everyone has the shortest-term memory around here…before he got injured, he was electric, and he was shooting close to 50% every night…what did you want him to be, Kobe of the last couple years? Yeah, of course Kobe in the last 2 years vs. Kobe that was dropping 35 ppg is better for the team…BUT LOOK AT OUR DAMN TEAM. Curry didn’t even start taking off until Ellis got injured…Ellis led us to decency as valiantly as he could, and just because HOLLINGER tells you guys his stats indicate Ellis sucks, you blindly jump into that boat.
I don’t know about you guys, but when I can choose between Monta taking the shot or him kicking it out to Radmanovich, I think I’ll pick the former 101% of the time.
by DubsDominate on Jul 28, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
how our team looked in the 1st half of the year, and how Ellis was the ONLY REASON we were staying in games?
That’s your opinion. It doesn’t mesh with either what I saw or what the stats indicate. Ellis was one of the reasons we weren’t in games, as in the time he played (and yes, this is true for the beginning of the season) the team didn’t do as well as the times he sat.
If Ellis wasn’t shooting the ball 22-23 times a game, we weren’t in half those games – its as simple as that.
No, it isn’t. If Ellis wasn’t shooting the ball 22-23 times a game, others would have had more shots. Since his shooting was poor, it’s likely that others would have done better with the few extra shots. Again, this in not merely opinion. Actual results based on when Monta played and when he didn’t indicate that your assertion that he “kept us in games” is, for lack of a better word, wrong.
but when I can choose between Monta taking the shot or him kicking it out to Radmanovich, I think I’ll pick the former 101% of the time.
Then you are as foolish as Monta and the coaching staff that allowed him to jack up shots at a rate that made us lose more games.
Honestly, the utter ignorance of basic basketball strategy (find the open man; if you’re doubled, someone else is open) is astounding.
by jae on Jul 28, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes,
I was watching the games too, and trust me, I was frustrated as hell watching Morrow streak to a spot wide-open and not get the ball…I’m not saying Ellis doesn’t have his flaws…I just think people are just wayyyyy too low on him after about 1/2 a season’s worth of basketball in which he was the main go-to guy.
I think we can all agree that he’s not a guy you can just give the ball to and say “here, win us the game”…but what I’m reading on this thread and just in general here seems to always go: “forget great, he’s not even a good basketball player”. Sorry, but I just cant buy that. On a team where he’s not relied upon for every possession, which is what we now have with Curry and Lee also capable of making an impact every night, I think Ellis is actually very valuable.
by DubsDominate on Jul 28, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
THe problem was he had open guys to dish to all season.
Monta’s primary fault – his unwillingness or inability to find the open man when he’s double-teamed – is one that severely limits how you can use him as a player.
To say that it’s because he was the only option is not only not true, but even if it were true it misses the fact that an open D-leauger has a better chance of hitting a shot than a triple-teamed Monta.
Defending him by saying he was “relied on” to carry the team is misguided, because while he was relied on to create, he wasn’t relied on to finish. There were other finishers available. Monta just didn’t find them.
Every single person on this board wants Monta to “get it” and learn to pass.
I wonder..
Is there a correlation with the number of shots Monta put up in a game and the amount of wins the Warriors got? Maybe not a win necessarily, but a positive bump in his teammates stats would prove the same thing too (a bump that would more than offset Monta’s average production). I’m guessing 20+ shots would be considered ball hogging. Any takers?
I think I’ll pick the former 101% of the time.
What about the other 9%?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 28, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The -1%
would probably be split between this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHZkfpSh-38
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6evatuKlROY&feature=related
YEEE MANG
by DubsDominate on Jul 28, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
While that is funny, it kind of bothers me that people mock the “give 110%” thing. I think it’s a fine way of saying that you’re going to give more than you think you have. It’s a cliche for a reason, as people intuitively knew what was meant by it. Anyway, language rant over.
Go Andris's free throw shooting!
Haha
How lame would it sound if we went around saying “Usually I only put in about 70% effort into anything I do, but for this I’m going to put in 80%” That may be closer to the truth but it doesn’t sound nearly as impressive of an effort.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
by olympicmike on Jul 29, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Through December
Monta shot a cumulative under 30% from 3 point range. His best FG% for the year was November at 47.8%. No, he was not shooting close to 50% every night – he had definite highs and lows.
Potential is what you pitch when you have low current value.
monta doesnt need many shots to score
Which is why he attempted the most shots per game in the league..
Monta is one of the most efficient combo gaurds in nba historyHe’s a SG, not a PG. He was efficient in 07-08. He’s inefficient as of now.
Trust me on this 1….he’s should be our #1 option because he can score in many different waysWe tried that, didn’t work out. And what ways?
I love how u guys use ur heart and not ur brains when it comes to evaluating talent…LOL WTF.
I know we don't need numbers to understand how sucky Pargo is BUT....
176 out of 182 NBA Guards in 09-10 ranked by Win Shares!!
The only guards worse than Pargo ranked by WS….
Tinsley, Alston, DeShawn Stevenson, Bobby Brown, Mardy Collins, and Sasha Pavolvic.
Funny I would actually prefer most of those guys over Pargo.
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Competition
At least theres more competition for the back-up Guard spot between Bell, Lin, and now Pargo. Hopefully we see Jeremy Lin improve even more.
We Gotta Give Thanks
Cohan may have screwed up a lot over the years… but he just left a legacy behind by somehow winning the Jannero Pargo Sweepstakes. The Decision has been made, folks! LGW!!!!!!
Can't tell me NOTHIN'.
Shoulda signed Earl Watson instead...bad pick up, Riley!
Earl Watson would’ve been a much better fit. Dontcha think? a savvy vet with leadership qualities, a solid assists guy, and can play D in limited minutes. This one was a Riley FAIL.
Lets see if he can redeem himself and snatch Amundson to shore up our frontline. We needs some toughness at the 4/5 to go along with DLee!
We Believe!!!
except this guy don't have a big snake
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 30, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
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