Polling GSoM: Carmelo Anthony Anyone? Are The Golden State Warriors Really Willing to Trade Stephen Curry and Andris Biedrins + Picks?
by olympicmike on Aug 31, 2010 3:10 PM PDT
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Could Joseph Lacob and the Warriors new ownership group be the ones to hand deliver Melo a briefcase full of cash?
Or will they make Curry do it on his way to Denver?
With all the recent reports about Carmelo requesting a trade and looking for a lucrative extension, some were excited to see the Golden State Warriors as one of the teams in the hunt. Others had their reservations. In fact GSoM has been blowing up with FanPosts, and FanShots on the subject. Now that the latest reports have the Warriors considering a trade involving Stephen Curry, Andris Biedrins and future picks, I thought it was time to give this story some front page attention and see what GSoM has to say about it. Let your voices be heard by voting and leaving your take in the comments. Hit the jump for links, and love for the GSoM community...
Make sure to check out the many FanPosts and FanShots on the subject from the GSoM community:
SAY HELL NO TO MELO, FRIENDS!!! - Evanz
Basic Melo Thread - KashRocks
Carmelo Anthony: Corey Maggette Redux - GovernorStephCurry
Please Chase Melo!!!! - Mac Muir
FanShot - mekanikal
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If it takes Curry to get it done, NO
Also, if we wouldn’t part ways with Curry to get Amare, why would we part ways with Curry to get Carmelo?
Who would take Amare over Carmelo after those knee surgeries?
I am NOT a believer that Carmelo is franchise player but he’s got to be worth more than Amare. If you’re signing/trading for Amare, you can’t overlook the salary he demands & those surgeries.
Amar’e over Melo.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Did the Warriors get Carmelo yet?
Listen guys. It’s the dog days of basketball. Carmelo isn’t coming to the Warriors, period. Maybe you can jumble, repeat, piece together, add and subtract the letters in “Rodney Carney” and come up with “Carmelo”:
Car n+n e d-c o = Carmelo.
That’s the closest we’re coming to getting Carmelo Anthony. Sigh.
I’ve been rooting for the SF Giants. Go Giants!
Hey. The Giants have a better shot of winning the championship than Carmelo coming to GS-land.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Curry was an unknown at that time
Now he’s a known commodity. I wouldn’t trade Curry for Melo straight up.
The only deal I’d do for Melo would involve Ellis or Biedrins as the key piece, plus 1st rounder. that’s it.
No guarantee Melo will sign longterm.
curry was not an unknown
he lead the ncaa in scoring 2 years in a row, he also lead his obscure school Davis to the ncaa tourny twice in a row, also his dad played like 13 seasons in the nba. he was also the 7th overall pick.
I think the point is he hadn’t proven anything about how good an NBA player he would be. The 7th overall pick really isn’t that high…..
by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
If this trade happens, I’ll take candy from a baby and then punch him in the face.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Aug 31, 2010 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
HOPEFULLY...
…this is just another trade rumor. As much as I wouldn’t mind seeing Melo in the new Dubs uni, we CAN NOT give up Curry for him. Take anyone else you want, that includes Monta, but Curry has to stay, Good PG’s are hard to come by.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Pacquiao fans type MANNY CHANT in Ebay!
*rolls in fetal position
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM PDT reply actions 8 recs
Be afraid... be very afraid...
…because if you’re data is correct then 1% of rumors DO come true! (enter dramatic music here)
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Pacquiao fans type MANNY CHANT in Ebay!
what if its curry for melo and lawson?
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
lawson is an interesting point gaurd, but does not nearly excite me to the degree curry does.
id be only willing to give up curry if the coupe is huge.
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
I agree
the other team has to give up like three good players for us to trade curry.
by Curry is amazing on Aug 31, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Curry for Melo and Lawson? No! nononononononononononononononono! NO!
by freerandolph on Aug 31, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
3 good players?
Not even then…
"Warrior Pride Till The Day I Die"
by WarriorFanLive on Sep 1, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Are The Golden State Warriors Really Willing to Trade Stephen Curry and Andris Biedrins + Picks?
No way, no how. Just stop believing that crap. Warriors are gonna milk Curry for all they can get out of him for at least 2 more years.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 31, 2010 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
My sentiments exactly.
I’m not buying this at all. While there could be a very legitimate argument for pulling the trigger, I think there would be a huge backlash from the fans. Warriors fans are better educated in these matters than most, and I don’t think they’re buying the quick, albeit very enticing fix, over building around Curry, by and large.
Also, as you point out, Curry allows much, much more financial flexibility by virtue of the rookie pay-scale, with increasingly similar marketability.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Aug 31, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't be to sure!
This is the Warriors that we are talking about!
Bonehead FO moves are a definate possibility
by Duby Dub Dubs on Aug 31, 2010 7:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Rowell isnt calling the shots anymore.
"Warrior Pride Till The Day I Die"
by WarriorFanLive on Sep 1, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Are they serious? They would end the great offseason with such a pathetic move like this? Curry and Biedrins + picks? Biedrins for Melo is too much for me. Melo isn’t too good. Curry shouldn’t be available for anyone who isn’t a top 5-top 10 talent who is young. Why give up both for a guy who plays no defense, can’t pass, rebound or score efficiently for guys who can do one or two of these things really well. And then we’ll sign this guy to a max contract, and we keep Monta… no way. This can’t be a serious trade. To quote golden_solitude:
*rolls in fetal position
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 3:26 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
*
*rolls in fetal position
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
99% of rumors don’t come true…
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I strongly doubt this will actually happen
I can’t imagine why Larry Riley would trade away our best play maker in Stephen Curry for Carmelo Anthony and weaken the dynamics of our offense. Furthermore, Riley didn’t trade Curry for Amare, why would be trade Curry for Carmelo?
My guess is that Stephen Curry is what the Nuggets “want” the Warriors to give up, and it’s being misinterpreted as the Warriors are “considering” giving up Curry.
I strongly doubt this will actually happen
Yeah, me too. The only angle I can see is new ownership wanting to make a ‘big splash’… Carmelo Anthony is a much bigger name than we currently have on the roster. It would put us in the center of the NBA conversation for a bit.
I can’t think of a single basketball related argument for making a move like this. In fact, I don’t think I would even trade for Melo at all if he is coming with a max extension. I just don’t think he’s that good.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
I have a hard time seeing Carmelo staying on the west coast.
He had as good a chance with the Nuggets as he would with any team out West. He doesn’t want to leave Denver because he can’t win there. He just wants to leave. I don’t think he will end up agreeing to an extension anywhere but back on the east coast.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
the poll is discouraging or needs revising
A vast majority of folks here apparently would give away “anyone but Curry” for Melo…Really? I wouldn’t give up Biedrins, Lee, Reggie, or D. Wright either.
hold up
you wouldn’t give up D. Wright for Melo? Or Reggie? Or Biedrins? You wouldn’t give up either of those guys?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
no
I don’t think Melo is worth the max contract. Reggie and D. Wright are valuable considering their contracts. Their value is only likely to grow as they get more playing time during the season, meaning they may be useful in the future to make a much better trade, if the opportunity arises. Basically, making a play for Melo right now kills our flexibility, and doesn’t really help the team that much at all.
I can't take this sh*t are you serious?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Melo at the max <<< Reggie, Biedrins, D Wright, Brandan
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
wow all three of them are worth that much
damn the Warriors are going to be a frickin juggernaut this year. Man if the Nuggets had just one of those three guys over the last three years they would have been winning way more than 50 games a year. Wow the Warriors are probably going to win around 60 with three guys better than Carmleo.
I get you don’t like his price tag but to pretend all of those guys are “>>>” is just stunning.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
You're missing the point.
This is a team sport. Melo and his contract no longer allows you to play a competitive team sport. His contract leaves you with little options to build a team. It appears you’re perplexed over very sound reasoning. If you can’t understand why 4 young players who are good at what they do are not more valuable than an overrated demanding(in all aspects), ball player, than nobody will ever be able to tell you.
It is a team sport, but unlike baseball and football you really don’t need that many good players to have a good team… what you do need is great players. Whether Melo qualifies as great is debatable, but much of the logic behind your argument is flawed. If you don’t like Melo at max money that should be your entire argument. Bringing in a player comparison makes the argument worse because Melo is much better than any of them. I get what you guys are trying to say but when you say things like Wright, Biedrins>>>>>> Melo is looks like a much different argument.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
You are overvaluing Melo tremendously.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Melo is one of the few players in the league who is quite a bit better than his per36 minute numbers, TS% and defensive metrics indicate. I realize how hypocritical I’m being here as I am constantly arguing against players who don’t impress me by those same standards. I get being against giving Melo a max extension no matter what the price is in trade, but I’d be OK with it. I don’t understand arguments like D.Wright>Melo, but I do understand not wanting any part of Melo. There’s no way I’d support any kind of Melo trade involving Curry. I’d like a deal built around Monta, and I could probably live with a deal built around Monta and Biedrins as long as J.R. Smith and/or another big were coming back to us.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
by sam23 on Aug 31, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Melo is one of the few players in the league who is quite a bit better than his per36 minute numbers, TS% and defensive metrics indicate.
If you don’t mind me asking….why?
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I never argued
that D Wright is more valuable or better than Melo in any way. D-Wright, B-Wright, Williams, and Biedrins will be responsible for more wins accumulatively as a team, than Melo will as a core starter. All of these players are good, disciplined, young, and specialize in a variety of different things you need. They fit very well, because they are all different players. They are role players. I’d take all of them together vs. Carmelo, any day.
None of them compare to Caremlo, individually. If you thought I was saying that, I apologize if I made it appear so.
All of these players are good, disciplined, young, and specialize in a variety of different things you need. They fit very well, because they are all different players. They are role players. I’d take all of them together vs. Carmelo, any day.
But you wouldn’t have to choose between all of them and Melo, just Montay and one of them plus a draft pick or expiring contract could do the trade so we’d still have most of them. If we could get Melo for Montay and B.wright plus minor parts that would have to be considered be an improvement?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 1, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
If we could get Melo for Montay and B.wright plus minor parts that would have to be considered be an improvement?
I’m not so sure about that. Presumably, Melo would start ahead of D. Wright, and Reggie would be the starting SG. While the latter is probably an improvement over Ellis, D. Wright is the only guy on the team right now that can conceivably be considered a defensive stopper. Take him out, and we’re going to lose a lot of games 135-110, as always.
While the latter is probably an improvement over Ellis, D. Wright is the only guy on the team right now that can conceivably be considered a defensive stopper. Take him out, and we’re going to lose a lot of games 135-110, as always.
but Melo would be an expiring contract so we could consolidate our talent and find a bigger 2 guard with that money. If Udon works out we wouldn’t really need BrokenWing would we?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 1, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
You are overvaluing Melo tremendously.
Personally, I think you’re Kobe-fying this whole situation. Like your well-founded opinions regarding Kobe, I wholeheartedly agree with your feeling that Melo is overpaid, and trading away a significant portion of our young core for a malcontent with various deficiencies is at the very least a huge risk.
Nevertheless, I think you should concede that some trade scenarios involving Melo could be a good strategy for (eventually) putting together a solid playoff team. :P
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Aug 31, 2010 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Sigh…..
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Weak…
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 2, 2010 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Nevertheless, I think you should concede that some trade scenarios involving Melo could be a good strategy for (eventually) putting together a solid playoff team. :P
Sure, but if you’re talking about us, but then you should trade away Stephen Curry or David Lee, or both if you’re bringing in Anthony. If you’re another team, sure. But who cares about other teams? ;)
No, I mean specifically the Warriors, and obviously that would involve keeping Lee and Curry. It also involves ever having seen Melo play, which the Governor et. al. apparently never have.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 2, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I still see a huge problem with Curry/Lee/Melo. Not a good combination at all – lack of defense, and the sheer volume of shots Melo is going to take away from better options combined with his lack of ability to create for others……
by Missing Barry on Sep 2, 2010 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I have to agree with you. The only solution would be an admittedly non-existent super-defender center, a la mutombo in his prime. Otherwise, I suppose a new system headed by a defensive genius could work, but that would again be totally hypothetical.
I simply find the general interpretation of Melo on GSOM to be, by and large, over the top and reactionary, and I find it ironic because I am not at all a fan of his, but refuse to let that affect my opinion of him as a player. I think he is incredibly dynamic and unique as a scorer, and I have yet to be introduced to analysis which can effectively discount this opinion.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 2, 2010 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you’re just being ignorant. There has been plenty of information showing Melo isn’t that great. If you don’t want to accept that, fine. Your decision to deny the information and facts.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 2, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
How ironic.
Something far more ignorant is to presume the existence of facts. Everything at the fore-front of intellectual development, from physics to philosophy, points to nothing but relativism and more questions.
My preference is to approach my interpretation of a player through the looking glass of personal, visual experience, coupled with my own understanding of the dynamics of the nature of the game, along with tools like advanced stats. My conclusion is that anti-Meloism is largely reactionary and silly. I watched him lead a team to an NCAA championship, and I am fully aware of his deficiencies. He is still an extremely unique talent and is worth consideration for a max-level extension under the current c.b.a. with the Warriors.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 2, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m somewhere in between. I don’t see him worth a max contract at all, for the simple reason that his worth is almost entirely as a scorer, and as a scorer, he seems to score at a pretty average efficiency (though he did have 3 straight years of above average efficiency from 05-06 to 07-08, so if I was a coach, I’d try to figure out what he was doing back then and get him doing it again), which really undermines the value of his scoring. He is a tough matchup, and has some unique abilities, so I do think that provides some value…..but I just can’t bring myself to even consider a one dimensional player for max money. He has to learn new tricks to be worth it – either learning to pass and create good shots for teammates, defense, or both. He can help a team, but the way he’s played the last couple years just hasn’t been close to the level of a max player.
by Missing Barry on Sep 3, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree.
“you really don’t need that many good players to have a good team”
I think you need to have a good bench and quality starters to win a championship. Your bench needs to come in and not lose the game. It takes great players to win games, good players to not lose them. You need both. My opinion of labeling Carmelo a “very good” player, not a “great” one, goes hand in hand with comparing his accumulative production to that of our young role players.
Regardless of what it “looks” like, that was always the main point of what I mentioned above.
It’s exactly why people are skeptical of Miami winning the championship. By your logic, they should win because they have great players.
Do you understand the implications a max contract brings? It means you won’t be able to afford other players who would help you win. Since I don’t believe in Carmelo, I think a max contract disables the retainment of the other players mentioned, who I think help your team win better. This is the comparison.
I’ll take Miami over any roster full of good but not great players you can put together.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Agh
But I’m not saying you don’t need great players, man. I’m saying you don’t need Carmelo instead of these specific players accumulated. I don’t think the production or value compares. The reason why I’m saying this, is because Anthony brings the responsibility of a max contract, that disables you from acquiring and retaining these kind of players, along with having Lee and Curry.
I’m also saying you can’t do it with just a core of 3 great, star players, like people in Miami are assuming. Like MissingBarry said, you’re going to run into other teams with the same kind star power. It then comes down to the finer areas of your roster.
The greatest teams of all time consisted of a core of stars that played extremely well together, and complemented the other’s weaknesses, or strengthened their strengths. Curry, Lee, and Carmelo could never fall into that category. Carmelo is not the man you want for that job.
We need a man at 3 between Lee and Curry who is unselfish, can catch and shoot from anywhere, and plays lock down defense, above all things. Strangely enough, Riley managed to find this player in Dorell Wright, for less than 1/4 of what Carmelo would demand in pay.
Did you miss the part where I said
Whether Melo qualifies as great is debatable?
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
you’re going to run into other teams with the same kind star power. It then comes down to the finer areas of your roster
You’re right you are because the teams with the great players are almost always contenders whereas the teams with only a bunch of very good players rarely are. To me the 90s Bulls are the best example of this. I think lately we have a tendency to overrate the “meh” players on really good teams making us think that these championship teams not only have 2 or 3 great players and a couple more very good ones, but they also have good players all the way down their bench. I just don’t think thats the case. I think 2 or 3 great players plus 2 or 3 more good ones and a little bit of luck with health and the ability to find the right “meh” players to fill out the roster produces a championship. Its why I almost always adhere to the theory that whoever gets the best player in a trade wins that trade. A couple years ago the Warriors may have had some of the best 7th-12th men in the league, the problem was that their 1-5 guys really weren’t all that much better than them.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I think you need to have a good bench and quality starters to win a championship.
To win a championship, sure – after all, at some point you’re going to run into another team who ALSO has a great core, so then it becomes a matter of the rest of the team. That said, the core is still the key part to how good your team is.
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think Carmelo at max value is a good core player.
I would rather have 3-4 quality starters/role players than Carmelo at max value.
I don’t think Carmelo at max value is a good core player.
Well, if he was your #3 and his shooting volume and lack of defense didn’t really disrupt/devalue your #1 and 2 (who would be pretty darn good in this scenario), and they were both already locked up long term, AND your team could afford to go way into the luxury tax, I’d say he is. But in any real world scenario, I gotta agree with you. ;)
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
haha
I agree with you with most things Barry. I was specifically talking about the Warriors. But you’re right.
Just throwing it out there, but if you had Jason Kidd, Carmelo Anthony, and Dwight Howard, that’s a big 3 I would have a lot of faith in going into the playoffs and competing.
Jason Kidd in his prime I’m assuming.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, Jason Kidd was pretty damn good last year. He had the best TS% year of his career, still put up 9 assists per 36, still rebounded the ball fantastically for a PG and turned the ball over at a rate well below his career avg.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Yeah but i’d still prefer Jason Kidd in his prime haha.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea
I didn’t watch many Mavs games, but I’m sure his defense isn’t where it used to be. Just sayin that dude has aged better than most PGs. You really could argue that he had one of his top 3-5 offensive season ever last year.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I’m not but his offense wasn’t too bad in his prime, and his rebounding was better, and his defense was elite.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, if he was your #3 and his shooting volume and lack of defense didn’t really disrupt/devalue your #1 and 2 (who would be pretty darn good in this scenario), and they were both already locked up long term, AND your team could afford to go way into the luxury tax, I’d say he is. But in any real world scenario, I gotta agree with you. ;)
Don’t forget: While Melo will no-doubt sign an extension to get in on the pre-new collective bargaining agreement pay scale, the hypothetical “core” wouldn’t have to as early as next season! Lacon has insinuated his strategy is to wait out the old c.b.a and then assemble a championship calibre team on the (relative to the current c.b.a.) cheap. In other words, I think we would need to wait for the new c.b.a. to start considering “real world scenarios” (cringing at statistics lingo) involving the Warriors, Melo, and championships.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Aug 31, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Can you stop beating the max contract argument to death
especially when it’s false. As you can see, the majority of GSoMers don’t want Curry in a trade, leaving Ellis and/or Biedrins as trade assets. Sending both would leave us with 18M in cap space to spend. He’s the only with a huge contract on our books and Lee in second place. This has no way of tying up our books. Please do note, that we would have to go over the luxury tax to seriously contend for a title. Also, I can give you a handful of players that don’t deserve their 17-20M contract. Can their teams make a deep playoff run? Yes.
The "Hot Pot" City
The salary cap is 58 mil
Lacob has said that he does not want to get into the luxury tax. We have a load of players(including Curry) who are yet to hit their prime years, and will demand a big pay day. Take Lee’s contract into consideration, at nearly 14 million, and yeah, Carmelo does kind of tie you up.
Curry, Williams, Wright, Wright, (Lin?), (starting center?) these are all players who I think will play well enough to demand good pay, while also supporting Lee’s contract.
That aside, it’s just the principle of paying a player like Anthony 20 million dollars. I could care less about how it eliminates cap room. It’s the principle of paying a player something I don’t think he’s good enough to deserve.
I'm sure if our team eventually had the makings of a true contender
he would pay the tax, just not for a team with no direction. I would scoff at paying Carmelo 20M as well, but that’s only in an ideal NBA. Again, a handful of players don’t even deserve half their contracts, but it gets their team into the playoffs. It also can attract free agents who won’t demand much just for the chance to win. Trust me, a three year extension will only feel like a year once it’s over.
The "Hot Pot" City
but it gets their team into the playoffs. It also can attract free agents who won’t demand much just for the chance to win.
Well, more than half the teams get into the playoffs. I don’t think the focus should be making the playoffs. That’s really not that much of an accomplishment (even if it seems like it to us, thank you Chris Cohan). The point is to become a title contender. Players like Carmelo get in the way of acquiring players who can really be the foundation for a championship team. I also don’t really buy the “attract free agents” argument simply because we still wouldn’t be a real title contender. We’d be a slightly above average team….
On top of that, I’d like to see the case that Melo is better than Monta + Biedrins, especially given our lack of big man depth…..
by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I did imply that the trade won’t come to fruition until we start jelling into a title contender. Only then would going over the tax and attracting FA be possible. I also understand we are not getting deep into the playoffs overnight. I disagree that giving Carmelo his contract would get in the way of building a foundation. Adding him, still gives us money to add a person like Horford or Gasol — giving 4 pieces while staying a fresh 9-10M under the cap. Take for example a few players who are ridiculously paid for what I consider a pedestrian role on their teams: (Lewis 20.5M), (Redd 18.3M), (Kirilenko 17.8M), (Carter 17.3M), (Stojakovic 15.3M). These players have not hindered their teams to make moves, some are competing for a title, and the rest are playoff bound. And I do consider Carmelo to be better than these players.
The "Hot Pot" City
Honestly, I really would say those guys have hindered their team. It’s a little different in the situation of Lewis and Stojakovic, because two of the top four players in the league (Paul, Howard) were already in place, but it really has gotten in the way of them adding that extra piece they need. I think we should be able to do better than Melo with that kind of money, and heck, Andris and Monta (depending on how Monta plays going forward) are a better value for that kind of money (I forget but I’m assuming you’re saying we should trade them for Melo)….
by Missing Barry on Sep 2, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember,
when considering the event of overpaying a player to a contract similar to Stojakovic’s, leaves you less room to make the same mistake twice. Could you imagine if they had an Adonal Foyle type player/contract on the books as well. Those kind of signings give you zero margin for error.
I grimaced when I saw the names Stojakovic and Lewis. How did they ever manage to get those ridiculous contracts?
Well, for Lewis, it was just a matter of hitting the market when there were no other worthwhile players on the market but teams with money and needs.
by Missing Barry on Sep 3, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions
He's close to a perfect fit, if he were paid around 8-10 million.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 3, 2010 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s exactly why people are skeptical of Miami winning the championship. By your logic, they should win because they have great players.
They should go undefeated with that lineup but they’ll probably coast to 65 wins and save it for the playoffs.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 1, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
You think each of those players individually is more valueable then Melo?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not convinced that Melo at the same price as any of those players is better. All he does is shoot. He doesn’t do it efficiently. What’s so special about him?
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
He can beat the majority of initial defenders one on one, consistently.
This is what all the fuss is about people. What most refuse to understand, is that even though he can do this and gain separation from his defender, he’s putting up a huge amount of shots, and a lot of them do not go in (shots that his teammates could take, open teammates).
Its kind of a drag when you have capable teammates who treat the ball with more concern, and you’ve got players like Carmelo taking decisions and shots away from them, with 20+ of his own.
monta does the same thing
but he doesn’t score as consistently as melo does. plus, melo can score from anywhere.
trade monta and whatever else (other players/picks/both) for melo.
a core of curry/melo/lee is something to build around.
"I think people fail to remember that he was the second of their first draft choices. So it’s not taking as big of a risk if people think it’s a risk as people, uh… think."
John Lynch on The Teeblerator
by punty mcbunty on Aug 31, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't particularly
have a high value tagged on Monta, either. The problem I have with Melo is not his production. The problem I have with Carmelo Anthony is the popular opinion of his worth as a max player. I wouldn’t pay 20 million for him, even if it meant having Curry, Lee, and Anthony.
a core of curry/melo/lee is something to build around
Can’t agree with that. You’re getting very little defense out of your top 3 players, and there’s just one ball to go around to the 3 of them. With Lee and Curry that’s fine, as they both strike me as smart, unselfish players who are also good passers and can make smart decisions to make sure the team gets the best shot. The problem is Melo. He’s never shown he can play like that. He’s shown he needs to shoot, a lot, without passing very much. Every shot he takes is a possession away from Curry and Lee (and other lesser volume but still efficient guys like Williams, D Wright hopefully, B Wright hopefully, and Biedrins). Considering Melo’s biggest thing is his offense…..that doesn’t thrill me very much. Bad defense, taking away touches from better players on offense. For the max? No thanks.
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s really not a matter of the Warriors being good, it’s a matter of Melo not being a good long term move. Sure, getting Melo will make us better, let’s say it makes up good enough to consistently be the 6-8 seed. Well, now we don’t have many options for adding talent because we’re paying Melo so much, we don’t get high enough picks to add significant talent, we’re constantly losing in the first round of the playoffs and not threatening to win a Championship, and we’re basically stuck in basketball purgatory. Is it really hard to believe there’s a chance at a brighter future than that sans Melo? It’s not that we’ll be better this year – it’s that we’re trying to be better over the life of Melo’s contract.
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Well I think the heavy amount of interest in Melo league wide is a pretty good indication that it wouldn’t really be all that difficult to unload him for pieces to rebuild with if it just wasn’t working with him.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
We’ll see. I think once he’s being paid a big contract long term (if he indeed gets it), you’re taking a big risk – I could easily see a couple of less successful years than he’s had with the Nuggets causing some people to wake up to the fact that he really wasn’t as big a part of their success as the current popular opinion….
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
…
The point is Melo isn’t the kind of talent to make you a real contender at the price he’s going to get. When you pay a guy like Melo the max, it gets in the way of building a championship team.
by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And if you really think my argument is just me going to the bottom of a slippery slope, let me point you to this team you might have heard of – the Denver Nuggets. 6 years out of 7 since Carmelo arrived they’ve made the playoffs, only to lose in the 1st round. A lot of lucky breaks (both in matchups and in getting the #2 seed despite being tied with 2 other teams in record, and only being the 5th best team in the West in pthag) got them all of 1 WCF’s appearance, where they finally ran into a real title contender (and lost, of course).
by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
6 years out of 7 they were eliminated in the 1st round.
This is really all you need to know. Legit max contract players are guys that can essentially win a first round series by themselves. Carmelo is crazy talented, and can probably beat any defender in the league one on one, but at the end of the day he just doesn’t do enough things to make his teammates better. This is the essence of being a “core” player, and by just about every measure, he fails.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Exactly, I mean, it’s the exact situation I was describing that got called a slippery slope….
Basketball purgatory.
by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t really get why they were saying it’s a slippery slope. To what, exactly? He’s either worth max money or he’s not. You were saying, and I agree, that he’s not. That doesn’t mean he isn’t worth ANY contract. He’s still a very good player (albeit one that would be an awful fit for our current lineup).
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Going from acquiring Carmelo
through a series of negative events that lead to basketball purgatory is what defines a slippery slope. You infer that acquiring Carmelo (which has all the chances to succeed) will send us down a negative path, and you send the team on a downward spiral that leads to purgatory. If you can prove that each of your contingencies is factually true and will happen, then your argument for acquiring Carmelo leading us to basketball purgatory would be infallible, and all debate should stop. However, most of the contingencies you listed lie not just on Carmelo himself, but on his teammates, the coach, and the FO. He himself cannot set off a chain of events that leads to point Z. Otherwise, that would be a slippery slope.
For an overpowered West, Carmelo did not have the supporting cast necessary to to make it past the first round until Billups. In his career playoff performances, he averaged 24.5 pts, 7.1 reb, and 3.0 ast — I don’t think the Nuggets’ playoff misfortunes are entirely for Carmelo to shoulder. A lot of you think that just because he is being paid a huge sum, that he should be an MVP candidate. I just don’t set the bar that high for him.
The "Hot Pot" City
Trust me, I got the point you were making with the slippery slope, I just don’t think it’s an out there notion at all. Especially since Melo’s own team gives us evidence that he really isn’t an easy player to build a contender around and the exact scenario I laid out is a very real possibility – it’s what’s happening right now to Denver.
In his career playoff performances, he averaged 24.5 pts, 7.1 reb, and 3.0 ast
I do like stats, but you have to control for minutes and give scoring efficiency. He averaged 38.6 MPG and had a 52.3% TS% for his playoff career – that’s a pretty weak performance in my eyes, especially accounting for the fact that Melo doesn’t really provide much on defense. Paying that guy to be your #1 isn’t going to cut it. Other teams are paying comparable amounts to guys like Lebron, Wade, Howard, Duncan, Gasol, Paul….real superstars. How do you expect to build a team to beat those other guys while paying Melo 25% of your cap?
by Missing Barry on Sep 2, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Kevin Garnett begs to differ...
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Sep 2, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
He had much worse teammates than Melo. He probably would have won a championship with Melo’s teammates.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 2, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
no
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Their value is only likely to grow as they get more playing time during the season, meaning they may be useful in the future to make a much better trade
You think each of these players has better long term trade value too? I guarantee you can trade carmelo for better stuff in the next 5 years.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not surprised at all...
This is pretty much the breakdown I expected from the poll. Don’t forget that Melo is vastly overrated by the majority of NBA fans. That doesn’t mean that it’s the right move to make, but most people would see a trade for Melo as a step in the right direction from the new owners. Let’s hope they are smart enough to resist the instant gratification and media buzz that would come with a trade for Melo.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
Keep making your case...
I’ll be making mine soon too. Hopefully someone cares. :-)
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
Re: Hopefully someone cares.
Now you’re just fishing for compliments.
I’ll bite:
Your front page work has been excellent. Your comments are always well-thought-out and even-handed, even when you’re 100% wrong (read: when you disagree with me). You are the fulcrum of GSoM. I always make a point to read your stuff.
play like a 1 man guy
by bloodsweatndonuts on Aug 31, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks man!
I wasn’t trying to fish for compliments, but I’ll totally take them. My point was that hopefully someone in Warriors management cares. But hey, if you keep talking me up like that they will have to take notice eventually right? ;-)
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
even when you’re 100% wrong (read: when you disagree with me)
hilarious
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
Ode to Tim Kawakami
by Doctor Kajita on Aug 31, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
i thnk this trade is definietlly a possibility
gm’s are willing to give up young talent to make a splash and bring in someone they deem to be a superstar. the reason we are so excited about curry is because it has been a long time since us dubs fans have had a young prospect with such a promising future (besides randolph). gm’s aren’t payed to be excited for the future they are paid to build successful teams. i would be totally against this trade but i can see Larry Riley making it.
they are paid to build successful teams
Well, I think that’s a plenty good enough reason to explain why I don’t want to trade for ’Melo….
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
im just saying in an NBA gm's eyes
i think they would be pretty proud of themselves in they brought in a player like melo.
Or pretty bad.
This would be a foolish, foolish decision on all accounts. Talent issues aside, he’s an expiring contract. What if he didn’t resign? WTF then? You really think Joe Lacob is that freaking stupid? Do you?
I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I’m holding out hope our GM is better than that.
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
This "report" (re: tweet) came from ESPNs NY college basketball insider
I would sooner believe a trade rumor from TK
The San Fransisco 49ers, where we got Dix, VD and Crabs!
by Badly Browned on Aug 31, 2010 3:38 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Technically there is probably some truth in it
He really isn’t saying much. He has a ton more tweets about other teams including the Nets who appear to be the front runner. I do get the feeling he might only have one league source who dumped all this information on him which might not entirely be reliable.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe there is some truth
But who says the Warriors offered Curry at all? Ther hasn’t been anything from the Dubs beat writers that I know of, and of course Denver would try to get Curry if they could.
The San Fransisco 49ers, where we got Dix, VD and Crabs!
by Badly Browned on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
he's not saying Curry was offered already
it’s probably a “scenario” that has been tossed around by management, but not actually put on the table
I am just saying
This “report” sounds more like some reporter writing his opinion on who Denver should take back in a Melo trade.
The rumor of Curry possibly being on the table is probably more to do with Denver trying to put him there than Golden State considering it, if it is true at all.
The San Fransisco 49ers, where we got Dix, VD and Crabs!
by Badly Browned on Aug 31, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
The rumor of Curry possibly being on the table is probably more to do with Denver trying to put him there than Golden State considering it, if it is true at all.
That makes a lot of sense. I don’t think anyone should be too worried about this, but news is news and anything involving a big name player possibly coming here, or the possibility of trading Curry deserves attention… especially in August. ;-)
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
he didn't say the Warriors offered Curry just he would be in the offer if they did it which seems unlikely
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
not only would it be unlikely that the Warriors do it
but why would he sign an extension? I doubt he would given the team would be gutted so the Warriors wouldn’t even go through with it.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Nets
I’m hoping the Nets land him. That would be absolutely fine by me.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
especially because I’m a little bit afraid of Denver getting Gallinari, Randolph, Curry’s expiring and a future first from the Knicks. They could reload pretty quickly if that happened.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
I'm not confident
in Denver’s ability to attract a whole new team of talent just like that. It’s cold in Denver.
Also, next year’s free agency class is a bit of an aftershock after this past one.
There is no way
Lets talk logic real quick. The only way the Warriors would pull the trigger on this is if Melo signed that 3 year extension for 65 mil. Curry is a potential future all-star developing at a rapid pace and he is still in his 2nd year of his rookie contract. NEVER TRADE STUDS ON ROOKIE CONTRACTS UNLESS ITS FOR A TOP 5 PLAYER. Not to mention good point gaurds are very hard to find especially this young. This guy Curry could be elite next year. Think about it, would you trade Chris Paul for Carmelo while Paul was in his rookie contract? Not saying Curry is on Paul’s level(yet) just saying its a huge posibility he will be in a year or two and he will still be in his rookie contract. Then we are going to look back like wtf were we thinking. I just dont think Riley will do this. Everything he has done so far have been smart moves.
This is just the tip of the iceberg
There are so many rational reasons why this would be a terrible trade. Lacob did not come from that school. I think we’re going to be alright.
I would trade
Curry + Beidrins + Expirings for Melo + Nene + Lawson. Thats it and thats all.
by NorthCaliBayBoy on Aug 31, 2010 3:48 PM PDT reply actions
Line UP
1.Lawson/Lin
2. Ellis/Reggie W.
3.Melo/D. Wright
4. Lee/ B.Wright
5. Nene / Udoh
by NorthCaliBayBoy on Aug 31, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
You don’t even know if Carmelo will be back. He’s not as good as you think he is. Biedrins is just as valuable as Nene. Lawson is good, but Curry is better.
You’re talking about trading a 21 year old future MVP candidate point guard, a valuable young center, for a scorer who probably won’t even be back next year, who would’ve never won you a championship, a big man who changes nothing from having the one you’ve got already, and a point guard under 6 feet who’s heavy, and his game is based on speed and athleticism.
HORRIBLE. Stop the foolishness. I want to pull my teeth out when I hear people talking about Carmelo for Curry. So stupid!
I used to think
fans came to the arena to watch and learn the game. Now, my suspicions are beginning to cave in on my soul and pride as a fan. I would imagine the more dedicated fan spending time on a site devoted to the team, rather than simply going to the game to be entertained. I can’t believe I’m actually watching people line up to trade away the face of the franchise for a chance at being the Denver Nuggets for a year.
No offense, but are most of our fans really this unknowledgeable?
The majority of our fans are stupid most likely. That’s why we still had great attendance under Cohan.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Well many of the fans who go to the arena imo are. No offense, but I have some incredibly stupid things at Warriors games.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
True,
I usually don’t include those drunkards in the conversation. Those are usually weekend Raider fans who don’t understand the game of football anymore than they do basketball. I used to work for the Golden State Warriors, and I’ve been to a lot of games outside of their employment realm as well. I like to think that the majority of our fans are pretty knowledgeable, it’s just something I prefer to continue my ignorance in believing.
That’s why we still had great attendance under Cohan.
Eh, that’s actually a pretty recent development…
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess so if you say so.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2006.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2005.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2004.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/
You can go through the years yourself (there are attendance numbers in those top ones) if you care….
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't doubting you.
Sorry if it came across that way.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I think a lot of that
had to do with the whole “We Believe” era. I apologize if I’m pointing out the obvious, but it was very fashionable to attend games at that time. I imagine a lot of band wagon fans might of sat down in the arena, maybe some people who didn’t like basketball all that much either, and said to themselves, “Hey, it’s kind of fun.”
A couple of solid seasons to bring the kids out, the girlfriend, some buddies, and people don’t even notice when Rowell pulls the chair from under them(or don’t care). Now you’ve got fans on top of fans who love the entertainment more than the game, and they’re perfectly fine paying to see guys like Monta Ellis, while they sit next to their kids, or….. whoever.
I think that perfectly describes Oracle Arena on most nights.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s hard to accurately assess (or convey) tone across the internet, so I always just lean towards caution by giving the facts, just to we’re all clear. No worries. ;)
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Fans are fans. A lot of them don’t know basketball, and don’t have any experience that would lead them to understand the game. Even guys that do know basketball might not have ever come across concepts like TS% and what not.
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah but i think almost any coach in the NBA has a great grasp of basketball.
Maybe they don’t know who is the best between Kobe and Lebron, but they can tell us things none of us can see.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
For sure, they’re coaches at the highest level for a reason, they do actually understand basketball – even the unsuccessful ones (though I do think many of them could improve their knowledge of the statistics side of basketball). I’m talking about fans, though….
by Missing Barry on Aug 31, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
(though I do think many of them could improve their knowledge of the statistics side of basketball).
No doubt.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
(though I do think many of them could improve their knowledge of the statistics side of basketball)
That’s why guys like Dean Oliver, et al get hired by teams.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
Ode to Tim Kawakami
by Doctor Kajita on Aug 31, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
And that’s why a team like Denver made smart decisions until they fired him with Warkentien.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions
id give up
curry + expirings for melo, lawson, birdman, smith, and nene.
Pretty much, i wouldnt give up curry
C'mon Beane! Close off the bottom deck and reopen the top!
Well.. Do we improve with a roster of:
? | Gadzuric
Lee | BWright | Udoh
Melo | DWright
Reggie | Bell
Ellis | Lin
hmm.. dont think so lol
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
yea thats pretty awful and I don’t see why Melo would prefer that to Denver.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
there would be other players in the trade
denver would have to give something in return
[Center] ? | Gadzuric
[Point guard] Ellis | Lin
Get me my seppuku blade…
REPLY TO DONUT
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 31, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Musings on the various permutations of a Denver deal (with the disclaimer that this is report is almost certainly complete BS, and that the chances of us dumping Curry are less than zero…)
• Monta plus some stuff for ’Melo. Sign me up, even with no extension in place. Indeed, I like the deal much better without an extension than with one. Would try to extract JR Smith as part of the deal, unless JR and Melo really loathe each other.
• Biedrins plus some stuff for ‘Melo. Meh, kinda hate it: we’re weakening a position of weakness, selling low and buying high, getting a dubious “star” who’s good but overrated for his volume scoring. Still … I could live with it, especially if they kicked in Birdman. Same thoughts regarding the extension apply: no extension. Particularly with Biedrins gone, I’d use his salary slot to go hard after Oden or (pipe dream) Dwight Howard.
• Biedrins + Monta for ’Melo. Kinda hate it unless some combo of Lawson, Smith or Birdman or is coming back. But I could live with it, grudgingly.
• Curry + Biedrins (or anyone) for ‘Melo. I’m done with the Warriors, possibly for good.
Fundamentally, I’m just not that jazzed about Carmelo Anthony. Give me JR Smith and Lawson or Birdman for Monta and a future first-rounder and I’ll be a happy man…
REPLY TO DONUT
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 31, 2010 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I agree.
I’d be open to trading Ellis for Carmelo for this season alone. All we need is one good season to turn the image of this place around. You’re only as good as your last win, and I think if we had Anthony, minus Ellis for just one season, we’d do well enough to get FA’s thinking, “I can step in and fill Carmelo’s shoes” for a much cheaper price. We then eliminate holes in our chemistry, and Lacob can target somebody who fits in.
I would never agree on a max contract for Carmelo. He is nowhere near that kind of worth, to break up your team’s mechanics. I would use him though, for one year to make this a place where people want to play ball, at the expense of losing Monta + an expiring. Nothing more. Carmelo can turn the lights on for us, make us look very pretty in the playoffs while the announcers talk about San Francisco and what a young, promising team we have. Then we can let someone else overspend for him while we keep our good name and add talent elsewhere.
by lilboots on Aug 31, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+ 1 billion
I said I was done with the Warriors when we traded Rick Barry, but I wasn’t. I said I was done with the Warriors when we traded Webber, but I wasn’t. Hell, I even said I was done with the Warriors when we traded Anthony Randolph, but I wasn’t. But if we trade Curry, it’s the real deal. Outski. Over. Forever.
I mean, honestly, I look forward to the day when I can come home after a long day of work, log into GSOM, and not have my heart leap into my throat over some new stupid ass you-gotta-be-effin-kidding-me trade rumor, the sort that you would never believe with any other team, but you sort of have to give a little credence to about because, yep, it’s the Warriors.
I kind of thought this s**t would be over when we got a new owner. Joe Lacob, make it be over. Please.
by BlueInTheFace on Aug 31, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Would you trade Monta for J.R Smith straight up (assuming salaries worked)? I just don’t really get that. J.R Smith is even more of chucker than Monta, and unlike ME8, has never demonstrated that he can be anything else. He is also an inferior athlete with less room to improve his game.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
NO WAY!
If Curry gets traded, then I am done! I’m tired of all this trading our best players and favorite players bull shit! It better not happen!
you guys are funny
Curry is really good, but calling him a future MVP candidate is kind of ridiculous
Haha, he’s better than Carmelo. And he’s not on the max.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he can potentially be a future MVP
Kobe and Lebron won’t be the same players when Curry is 26 years old. How many other 21-23 year olds are as good as Curry? Do you know how good he can be? Why is it so inconceivable to consider him a player to have a shot at the award in the future? If Lacob is truly a winner, making us a winner, Curry being the catalyst as the best shooter, one of the best passers, and a good defender, what makes you think he can’t be in that conversation?
How many other 21-23 year olds are as good as Curry?
Well, it’s likely that LeBron and Durant will win the bulk of the MVP awards between them in the next decade.
True
they don’t give you a star on the walk of fame for “not bad”. But I don’t know how well Lebron will do in his 30’s, personally. I think he’s very, very heavy and one major injury away from being half the player he is. He’s very high in the air many moments during a game. I’d hate to hear a loud crunch if he lands awkwardly some day with almost 300 lbs on top of it. Yeah, well this could happen to anybody? Big deal. Well, watch how he plays the game. He’s a freak. If he loses that edge, he’s still an all-star, but I don’t know how great he’ll be once his enormous athletic ability begins to fade.
Keep in mind that I said the word “candidate.” I’m not sure Curry can beat out the likes of Durant for an award.
Kind of like how Shaq won, um, one MVP?
That is, over the decade where he was clearly the most valuable player in the game. I’m not saying you’re wrong. Those two are awesome. But I’d put down good money that Curry will grab at least one in the next five or six years. Oh, this talk of trading him—why, why, why do we even have to talk about it?
by BlueInTheFace on Aug 31, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Kind of like how Shaq won, um, one MVP?
We are talking about two players, though. It’s not fair to bring in Shaq without also bringing in Tim Duncan. And then KG was the best player in the NBA for a little while.
Flannelcore
by Reverend_Randy on Aug 31, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Shaq and LeBron
are interesting in the way that their physicality has allowed them to dominate the game in such a way. I would say the biggest difference between the two though, is that LeBron dominates from the perimeter obviously, using quickness/strength, while Shaq does not need to rely so much on his mobility, as much as he does his brute force and soft touch.
LeBron needs his explosiveness more than Shaq does. O’Neal is one of the biggest men I have ever seen in any sport, ever. Even huge centers look small next to him. Although LeBron is a dominating force physically, I think his game relies on much more in that respect, than just Shaq’s strength and size.
Curry may in fact win one. I think he’ll definitely be in the mix for years, so it goes without saying you can safely make a bet he’ll get one. I’m just crazy about his game. I’m not a homer. I actually like pretty much every player in our rotation this season. I’ve never, ever been able to say that about team’s we’ve had in the past.
off topic
Does anybody remember Tony Farmer? Casey Jacobson? Those were truly some dark years. I don’t know why I’m bringing them up… I guess just thinking about our current roster and new ownership has made me feel a sudden sense of devotion and gratefulness, that I’ve stuck around this long as a fan, faithfully. If you can remember those names, you should be proud of yourselves as well!
Casey Jacobson of Stanford?
Maybe I am getting names mixed up here. The white guy drafted by Phoenix?
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Pretty sure he meant Sam the Golden Gopher.
Kind of the same person as Casey the Cardinal.
REPLY TO DONUT
Sorry, I meant Sam Jacobson.
He’s the guy who played for us when we acquired Larry Hughes after the all-star break in which he missed pretty much every dunk in the slam-dunk competition. He was a very good shooter, but that’s about it. He was there while Larry played those 32 games for us and looked like he was going to be a very promising starter, with two 40-point + nights over the Lakers and the Nuggets.
Tony Farmer, was about a 6-8, 3/4 swingman with no heart, and less game. Anybody, and I mean anybody in the league could beat him, and he’d just as soon hack people at the rim, than recover and play defense. He played amongst guys like Danny Fortson and Jason Caffey. It was just a horrible time to be a Warriors fan.
It was injuries and stand out years from other star players
Shaq wasn’t that healthy through the prime of his career (played more than 68 games twice times in 9 seasons from 95-04. He lost out early on to Jordan and Malone (two very deserving MVP candidates), won in 99-00, then lost to Iverson, Duncan (2x), KG, Nash (2x)… and was over the hill by the time Nowitski, Kobe, and LeBron were winning them. Was Shaq the most dominant force for a decade or so? Which decade? During the early part of his career, Jordan would have taken that. Since Jordan retired, Shaq has been pretty much on par with Duncan (notably 4 championships each)… maybe a half step above when healthy, but he wasn’t healthy (Duncan played in 15% more regular season games).
So… Shaq’s one of the all time greats, but so are Jordan, Malone, and Duncan… If he’d stayed healthy, he’d probably have won 6 championships and 5 MVP trophies… but he didn’t stay healthy.
Trust me, learning english isn’t a waste of time. It is actually sort of useful.
-randolphforpresident
by Dubs fan in Boston on Sep 2, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Not worried
Just because you saw it on the internet, doesn’t make it true
this is doubly true for Twitter
Curry is too cheap for the Warriors to trade him at this point; and I think the Nuggs would prefer to keep Melo by off-loading JR Smith, maybe birdman to get another impact player
Also, I think Riley thinks he might be able to keep his job…you get rid of your rising young star (who has been called-out by the new owner) for a one-year-and-done with a player who essentially is a taller version of Ellis?…goodbye
I’m with Sleepy, if this is Monta plus expirings for Melo and JR
I am more than ok with that, even for a one-year rental
What The #%*+ I'm all for Melo but NOT at the Cost of Curry
Lacob please dO Not dO any thing stupid! Give Away Curry is Stupid! I don’t care the guy is probably a top 5 guy in the next 5 years!
Awesome
It seems the original tweeter is just throwing what he thinks Denver would want for Melo up on his twitter feed.
# #Nets look like favorites now but are fighting including lopez…Harris, Favors, and picks are package about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry
#Nuggets would prob. want Kaman and Eric Gordon from #Clippers 4 Melo….that deal would make LAC much worse about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
#Nuggets discussions w Chicago involves a package of Luol Deng and Taj Gibson about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
#Warriors offer for Melo would be Stephen Curry, Biedrins, and picks…GSW unsure tho about parting w Curry about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
#Warriors, #Bulls, and #Clippers are also in mix for for Melo…LAC are long shot according to #NBA league source about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
check #Nets first round picks…its 9 over next several years….I’m told multiple picks would be involved in #Nuggets deal about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
If #Nuggets were to make deal w #Nets, they would likely move Billups in another deal bc of Harris about 10 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
Hearing from an #NBA league source that the #Nets are not including Brook Lopez in any trade discussions w #Nuggets 4 Carmelo Anthony
Now sure if he’s reporting or speculating
A Sonics fan without a team... but after 7 seasons now of GS Warriors season tickets have convinced me to adopt the boys from Oakland.
Is it just me or are Luol Deng+Taj Gibson and Stephen Curry+Andris Biedrins extremely different price tags?
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
my feelings exact when I saw that.
Comparing offers, that’s extremely lopsided and is pretty revealing towards the weightlessness of this rumor.
that doesnt have anything to do with the validity of the rumor
it could just mean that, that is the bulls best offer anything more and they are out.
It does.
You can pull out of a deal before it is done. Not that I think Riley/Lacob proposed the deal in the first place, but even if they did, if it’s not done, they can obviously look around the league and make some phone calls to get a feel for other bids. This was sort of the struggle between Larry Ellison and company.
It would actually make Riley look even dumber, (if he ever made such an offer) if he did some research around the league and was like, “Oh…that’s what you offered?….back to the drawing board!” But I don’t think he’s that stupid. This whole thing is, though.
in terms of player value
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
yes that is exactly what he meant
seemed pretty clear. Not a big deal either way
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
‘Price tag’ as in what it’s going to cost you to land Melo.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
maybe this is lacob's version of the boston big 3
i can see why he might be interested in this. he was involved with bringing ray allen and KG to the Celtics. ray is the shooting guard (monta), kg at power forward (lee) and paul pierce at small forward (melo). they drafted a rookie point guard in rondo hoping that the play from the big three would elevate everyone else’ game. rondo turned into an all star point guard and kendrick perkins developed into an above average defensive minded center. lacob has said that he wants to put together a big 3 in golden state, maybe this is his version of it. i am completely against trading curry but i can see why a trade similar to this would interest lacob.
Except the entire Celtics starting 5 were very good defensive players and none of ours would be.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
Sam!!
I think now is a good time to put up that picture of joaquin phoenix, haha.
One giant step in the right direction.
by LighTz707OuT on Aug 31, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Here’s my problem. That Big 3 destroys this Big 3 so badly i can’t even describe.
Allen >>> Monta
Pierce >>> Anthony
KG (at that point) >> Lee
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Ray was better last season, too. By a wide margin. At least two ">"s’ worth.
REPLY TO DONUT
by Sleepy Freud on Aug 31, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone but Steph
All signs point to Melo going to NY anyway. Why give up our best player + for a one-year rental? I agree with some here saying Melo is overrated, but I wouldn’t mind getting him for a package around Monta (which won’t happen, so it’s a moot point).
I’ve said time and time again I will be a Warriors fan until we move or I die.
If they trade Curry, I am done with the Warriors unless I find I am too attached to leave.
I’m not sure which team I would take on. It would have to be a perennially terrible one, otherwise it just wouldn’t feel like home.
DON't TRADE CURRY!
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Owner: Joe Lacob, Peter Guber
GM: Kevin Prichard
Coach: Brian Shaw
Over 1,000 wins online with GSW in 2K10
..............SC30..............
I SWEAR IF THEY TRADE CURRY..
IM DONE AS A WARRIOR FAN AND NBA FAN..PERIOD. JAMISON, ARENAS, RICHARDSON..AND MAYBE CURRY? I KNOW THIS IS JUST A RUMOR, BUT JUST READING THE POST MAKES ME MAD.
LOUD NOISES LOUD NOISES!
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Aug 31, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions
CURRY, ANDRIS, PICKS FOR CARMELO?
WHOS GONNA BE OUR POINT GUARD? WHATS GONNA HAPPEN TO OUR INSIDE REBOUNDING GAME? DUDE AVERAGED ABOUT 6 A GAME FOR A FORWARD. CARMELO IS PRETTY GOOD BUT OVERRATED. JUST AN UPGRADED MONTA ELLIS. TWO PLAYERS OF THE SAME KIND ON THE SAME TEAM? CMON WARRIORS STAFF..BE REAL!
LOL
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
REPLY TO DONUT
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
have to say.......................eh no
giving up an important piece to the rebuilding process at this point isnt a good idea…if anthony comes here at the expense of curry, he would be joining a worse team then he would have been in denver as a perennial playoff team….which says A. we cant expect to be contender with just him and a few D leaguers n rookies on the roster and B. I can see him being unhappy here as this would be the case
KeWzEe
Offtopic
Oh crap, I still have a FIBA open thread to write. I’ll have to do it later tonight. For anyone who hasn’t gone to sleep yet, next Team USA game is tomorrow at 9:00am, ESPN, replay at 8:00pm ESPN2.
Reading this makes me wonder....
Given that Joe Lacob is Mr. Tech and supposedly the biggest Warrior fan in the universe—or so he says—do we think/suspect/presume that he’s actually reading all these posts and logging our sentiments? Are we, in a sense, his market research? Or going one step further, can we be sure that Joe Lacob does not post on these boards himself? I think I would, if I were a bored and very rich techie fan with a Blackberry, especially on those winter nights where I was sitting courtside at Oracle Arena, watching the Warriors get blown out by the Clippers yet again. I mean, I think it’s time to try to figure out which of the regular contributors are actually Joe Lacob in disguise. How do we know that Joe Lacob is not really Sleepy Freud? Come to think of it, I’ve never seen the two in the same room.
He’s very busy. I doubt he has the time.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 9:19 PM PDT reply actions
I don't know about that
he apparently has time to respond to e-mails from 13-year old high school students!
Who, Lacob or me?
I mean, to the extent that we’re not the same person…
REPLY TO DONUT
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 1, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
REPLY TO DONUT
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Aug 31, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
No Curry in any deal
Curry is a Warrior for life
I hope at least
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
And also why would Melo want to play with the Warriors without Curry?
just doesn’t make sense. What do they do with Lawson and Billups and Curry?
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
Evanz – " I wouldn’t trade D Wright for Melo" HAHAHAHA. Undoubtedly the stupidest comment I’ve ever read in my life.
Curry + Biedrins & 1st rounder is way too much.
Curry + Radmon & Gadzuric would work.
MELO is a proven SUPERSTAR who’s in his prime, Curry is not (yet). D. Rose and Westbrook have played more minutes than Curry for TeamUSA. Curry’s PG importance, born leadership, feel for the game in only his rookie season, and potential to get better, are what would make trading him straight up for (an extended contracted) Melo a difficult decision. Melo isn’t a Kobe or Lebron, he’s not at the leadership level (needed Billups to go places in playoffs) of them, but let’s not underestimate the fact that he’s an elite player, probably a TOP FIVE PLAYER IN THE NBA. That’s undeniable. Melo is an elite player, so him straight up for Curry would be a win for the W’s on a talent level. I’m more hesitent due to the dynamics of the team and long term concerns that probably wouldn’t work when you keep Ellis on a team with Melo and also lose your playmaking, future star PG. The ball movement would probably suck azz. But for people to suggest that Curry is a better player NOW, is ridiculous. They could argue contract concerns, or that the team dynamics wouldn’t work…. but on a talent level, there’s no comparison (not yet anyway). I wouldn’t do the trade though. Curry’s got too much importance to the team and too much proven promise to get even better. And a rumor of Curry AND Beans AND 1st rounder is just retarded.
You’re so wrong on many levels. Could you care to read the arguments about Melo before being so abrasive?
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 2, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re so wrong on many levels.
Actually other than the Melo being top 5 in the league he is pretty correct. Melo might be top 20 in the league, I’d have to make a list to decide?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 2, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Melo isn’t a Kobe or Lebron, he’s not at the leadership level (needed Billups to go places in playoffs) of them, but let’s not underestimate the fact that he’s an elite player, probably a TOP FIVE PLAYER IN THE NBA. That’s undeniable. Melo is an elite player
This is actually all pretty deniable. It’s not leadership that prevents Melo from going far, it’s the fact that he just isn’t that good. This is an important concept to understand. He’s not a superstar – he doesn’t create for teammates, he doesn’t play defense, he doesn’t score that efficiently – the only thing he’s really good at is scoring at a huge volume, which, given his efficiency, isn’t as helpful as it would seem at first glance.
by Missing Barry on Sep 2, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Using “probably” and “undeniable” in the same sentence to describe Melo’s status probably wasn’t the best option, but my point was he is an elite player – easily top10 – and still in his prime. I think most ppl would agree that he IS a superstar, depending on how you grade it.
by RowellMustGo on Sep 18, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
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