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Don Nelson the GM

Stephen-curry1_medium

Simply the latest steal of the draft.

It struck me today while contemplating the latest batch of ignorant and vicious propaganda regarding Don Nelson to be secreted out of the San Jose Mercury News, that while everyone is agitating over the decision whether to bring Don Nelson back as the coach of the Golden State Warriors, no one is discussing whether it might be worth while to bring him back as the de facto GM of the Warriors, or re-hire him as a "godfather" and paid consultant after his contract is up.  This is a great oversight by the Bay Area media, which, of course, is what we've come to expect from these paragons of journalism.  I wish to correct this oversight.  Let's discuss Don Nelson the GM.

Star-divide

http://feltbot.wordpress.com/wp-includes/js/tinymce/plugins/wordpress/img/trans.gifI don't want to bore you too much with everything I know about Don Nelson as a GM, as for instance all the secondary players he drafted (eg., Paul Pressey (20th, '82) and Scott Skiles (22nd, '86)), or all of the secondary players he discovered and created out of the D-leagues (eg., Mario Elie, Avery Johnson, Matt Barnes, Kelenna Azubuike, CJ Watson, Anthony Tolliver).  Or the complete details of how he built four playoff franchises from scratch.

What I want to do is give you is a very simple list of ALL-STARS that Don Nelson has drafted:

Do you think any other GM in NBA history has drafted 11 future All-Stars?  Do you think any other GM in NBA history has drafted a future All-Star in 6 straight drafts, as Don Nelson did for the Warriors from 1988-93?  Has any other GM in NBA history built four playoff franchises from scratch?

Don Nelson has a record as a GM that is unparalleled in league history, and which is likely never to be matched.

Joe Lacob, do you think you can do better?

Poll
What should the Warriors do with Don Nelson?
Keep him!
1036 votes
Fire him!
1277 votes

2313 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 192 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Please be serious

Don Nelson needs to be sent back to Maui ASAP. The guy has checked out mentally and is just sticking around to collect his paycheck. Don can fool a lot of people with his fun loving, aw shucks personality, but don’t be fooled. This guy has an ego bigger than any player on his team. He is petty, manipulative, and plays head games with his players which is why he wears out his welcome wherever he goes. Larry Riley as GM is a questionable move, but Don Nelson as GM is absolutely absurd.

My opinion has been from my observations over the years, not by the media. Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe certain media outlets are right about Nellie?

by Pippen on Sep 18, 2010 10:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Please don't claim the ability to read minds
The guy has checked out mentally and is just sticking around to collect his paycheck.

And you know this how? Of course he has a big ego; you need one in sports. He wore out his welcome with Mark Cuban because Cuban wanted to be his own GM (which was Cuban’s right, if stupid) and because they disagreed on some personel issues (see: Steve Nash). He wore out his welcome in NY with Patrick Ewing because he knew Shaq wanted out of Orlando and wanted to trade Ewing for Shaq. History can judge if he was wrong about that. He wore out his welcome here the first time because of a destructive conflict with a spoiled, immature player which both Nelson and Webber now say they handled badly. Live and learn. That certainly didn’t nullify Nelson’s achievements.

From the early results of the above poll (the type of poll that will normally attract more haters than supporters) the support for Nellie from fans is more substantial than most of the media would lead us to believe. But to the extent that he has worn out his welcome with an admittedly also-substantial number of haters, it is ironically their dislike of his personality, a personality-type that rubs many people the wrong way because of their own insecurities (I see people freak out over Nelson-like personalities every day in the world of work, though some of us actually like that type), that often generates their passionate desire for his removal. That combined with their frustrated need to blame someone for two seasons which NO coach could have made a success.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I read your blog sometimes.

And TBH you and Kawakami are opposite extremes when it comes to Nelson. So while you may use more facts and etc, I would prefer that we’d be more centered when talking about Nellie. It’s not helpful when it’s either Kawakami saying he’s horrible or Feltbot and Atma calling him one of the greatest of all time, and that he can never make mistakes. And Don Nelson hasn’t been making the decisions lately. It’s all been Larry Riley.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 18, 2010 10:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Re: So while you may use more facts and etc

Why don’t you address the “facts and etc” and explain why they are invalid and present some “facts and etc” of your own to support a counter-argument?

You spend a great deal of time on this site arguing against people who have opinions that certain players are by countering their casual observations with statistical “facts and etc”. See the irony?

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 18, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

should read: “opinions that certain players are good by”

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 18, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm saying he uses more facts than Kawakami, but they are both ridiculous in their positions.

One being that Nellie is the anti-Christ (TK), and one being Nellie is God (Feltbot). Feltbot is better than TK. That doesn’t mean Feltbot isn’t pretty off on a lot of his thoughts on Nellie, just that he’s not nearly as off as TK is (because TK is almost never right).

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 18, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nellie us underappreciated so Feltbot picks up the slack.

Somebody has to. That’s certainly not to say that Nelson never makes mistakes. I don’t know of anyone that would say that.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: but they are both ridiculous in their positions.

What is ridiculous about Feltbot’s position and what "facts and etc" are you basing this on?

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 18, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thank you for proving my point that you don't have one of your own on this subject.

It’s not a crime to sit out certain discussions.

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 19, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Have you read the work of Atma and Feltbot?

Have they ever criticized Nellie? Will they ever criticize Nellie? If you don’t take what they say with a grain of salt, than you aren’t a good evaluator of the facts.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you don’t take what they say with a grain of salt, than you aren’t a good evaluator of the facts.

LOL. Ok. Deep breath. Ahem. . .

Which specific facts am I not evaluating correctly, and what is your analysis of these facts?

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 19, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Facts are the Warriors have sucked the past 2 years. Nellie has done a horrible job. Yes, i read your ideas about how he still was creative, but that doesn’t mean he was a good coach. Our team had players who had an ability to rebound, which would solve alot of our problems. Yes, not all, but considering he played small ball to the largest extent to which he could, that’s a problem. Secondly, his rotation in general was an albatross. We underperformed our pythagorean record, our WP expected record, and our win% expected records…why? He kept playing players like Jackson, Ellis, Maggette, and Crawford over guys who were helping this team in Biedrins, Randolph, Wright (08-09). If Nellie didn’t play Jackson and Maggette at PF more than Randolph and Wright in 08-09, Dave Berri calculated we would win around 45-50 games. Well, jeez we won 29 games. He loves the small ball. Small ball sucks unless it’s used in small portions to maybe be used as a change of pace type move. When it is the team’s constant strategy, and the other team can prepare for it, it sucks. Same problem this year. Played smalls over bigs even when they were healthy (not too often but it still happened). Playing Randolph, while he had problems, would have helped this team drastically. Playing Monta, in the role and amount he did, killed this team. This team without Monta was pretty good. You think he couldn’t give him so rest, or even ask him to pass the ball to others. Not run so many isolations for him. To not put him in a role destined for failure.
He prepared this team horribly. We were the worst 3rd quarter team in the league. That comes down to coaching. Not adjusting, and keeping the same strategy in place (small ball). Other coaches adjusted, Nellie didn’t. Considering his apologists keep up with the mantra, ’he’s an innovator’, the fact he was less creative than the average coach should tell you something that most of us have seen: Nellie’s checked out.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

:shakes head:
If Nellie didn’t play Jackson and Maggette at PF more than Randolph and Wright in 08-09, Dave Berri calculated we would win around 45-50 games. Well, jeez we won 29 games.

That is HIGHLY speculative and in my opinion garbage analysis by Dave Berri. You can’t tell me you honestly by that. Let’s not take into account none of those players ever logged heavy minutes nor showed any propensity to stay out of foul trouble. Secondly, it wasn’t Nelsons fault Wright was constantly hurt.

The reason they should have played more was because that team wasn’t going to the playoffs from the beginning so they should have been receiving valuable game experience to get them closer to being players who could lead the Warriors in the future

I do think we would have won more games, at same time I understand Nelsons position. They didn’t perform in practice. Kurz owned Randolph in practice, how is he suppose to Reward Randolph with playing time?

by tafkasam on Sep 19, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's only garbage because you are a statophobic.

If the stats don’t fit your conclusion you automatically disparage them.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not though...

I do like stats, I just think it tells part of the story and needs to be taken in context of actual play. I hate using it as a be all-end all, when there are many other elements.

But you can’t honestly tell me you thing, if the 2008/9 Warriors were healthy and Nelson played Wright and Randolph at power forward we’d win 45-50 games. I can imagine 35 to possibly 40. But thats more down to injuries. That truly blows my mind.

by tafkasam on Sep 19, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Jackson and Maggette don't play PF at all

And a combination of Wright, Randolph, Turiaf, and even Kurz got all the minutes, i say we win 45-50 games.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 20, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

This suggests to me that you seriously undervalue rebounding and interior defense.

Playing real power forwards over guys who can’t come close to rebounding or defending the position, and you think it might only get us six wins?

by Ronaldinho on Sep 21, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

chalk that up to youth

And Posey is having amother great game.
You're the worst Al Capone

by JohnnyDangerously on Sep 20, 2010 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: And how thats almost certainly from bad coaching.

No, it is most certainly not. It is most likely due to the roster of rookies, d-leaguers an below-replacement-level players. If you want to go into blind rationalization, we can say that it is more likely that teams looked at the Warriors roster, and took it easy in the first half. When they went to halftime with the score close, or being down to a team of scrubs, they probably tuned it on. Who knows? But that is a much more probable explanation, if you watch how a lot of NBA games unfold. It ain’t exactly max effort for 48 minutes for 82 games. Most of the good teams pace themselves, then turn it on in the 2nd half.

BTW, you never told us which of Feltbot’s “facts etc” you found fault with and what your counter-arguments to those “facts etc” are. Got anything for us?

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 20, 2010 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think Feltbot or Atma are in anyway wrong in there position on Nelson

Nelsons EYE for talent is unquestionable. His ability to maximize players is among the best in league.

But none of this takes into account his personality, which sometimes tarnishes relationships, and that in my opinion what separates him from Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown and the truly elite coaches. They may have had better players, but let’s be fair, man management of guys like Jordan, Shaq, Iverson is NOT easy.

Eitherway I love Nellie, and I agree with there point of view. People don’t realize how lucky we are to have him. Less you are ready for another decade of Carlesmo’s, Montgomery’s and co.

by tafkasam on Sep 19, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I disagree that his eye is unquestionable.

The Richmond-Owens trade was made based on Nellie’s assessment of the two players talent, as well as his desire to get bigger.

That assessment was dead wrong. That was a horrible trade for us.

Some of his other moves were clearly brilliant (Spree wasn’t on anyone’s radar), and some good-but-obvious (a lot of people would have taken Hardaway in that spot).

In other words, like most GMs, he was some great decisions, he has some lousy ones, and he has some more-or-less obvious ones. Overall I think he’s been a top-notch evaluator of guard talent, and a rather mediocre evaluator (and maximizer of) big man talent.

Ultimately, it’s not clear how Nellie’s eye for evaluation would fit in with a team that wasn’t running his style of ball on the floor. One of the most important things for a team is that the GM and coach be on the same page (along with the owner) as far as the vision of the franchise is concerned. eg Nellie as a GM for a team running D. Wright at the 3 doesn’t make any more sense than Nellie as a coach for that team.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, unquestionable is clearly a STRONG word

No one is perfect, every scout has made mistakes. I still believe when it comes to evaluating talent he is in the upper tier of basketball people (for lack of a better term) in the NBA. Is he the best? I’m not sure. But surely he’s in the conversation of elite eyes for talent.

I think you have a good point about Nellie’s eye for talent outside his ‘brand of basketball’. I’m not sure I agree with it, but it’s a legitimate point. Still if he knows what he wants to play, isn’t being able to evaluate talent for that system a clear positive?

Having seen horribly drafting/scouting for majority of my time as a Warriors fan (I was born in 1984 so you can do the timeline to my fandom) I am not so willing to just ‘throw Nellie away’ without having clear plans. It reminds me of what the 49ers did with Marucci to a degree. You don’t fire someone, particularly someone like Nelson, without having a plan.

For the record, I don’t mind moving on from Nellie to a new coach. But I don’t want to fire him for sake of firing him.

On a different note:

Nellie as a GM for a team running D. Wright at the 3 doesn’t make any more sense than Nellie as a coach for that tea

Why? Because he isn’t a point forward? I’ll concede that BUT considering Curry (and Monta) will be running the offense majority of the team (along with what I suspect a lot of plays through David Lee in the high post), the need for a point forward isn’t necessarily high. He’s had teams with and without that player. What I see in Wright is a player more than athletic enough to play Nellie’s uptempo system (that’s clearly first priority), long good defender who can get into the lanes (clearly Nellie’s favorite form of defending), and a player who hit almost 40% of his 3s last year (whether he’s developed that shot or it was fluke, I’m not certain, but I’m going to stay positive and assume he’s a ‘plus’ 3 point shooter. )

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

THe term "point forward" is overused.

But since the end of his first run with the Warriors, Nellie has built teams to play a specific style:

Run the other guys out of the gym. He wants slasher/shooter/ballhandler types at spots 1-4. Dorell’s skillset (rebounding, defense, etc) doesn’t get playing time in Nellieball unless you’re a center. At best, Nellie would play him at as a 4.

It’s not, in my mind “firing him for the sake of firing him.” It’s that he’s not the long-term coach of this team, he seems in danger of doing further damage to our talent base (by not imposing on-court discipline on Monta and thus hurting his value, based on his clash with Monta) and it’s not clear what value he adds at this point in his career.

Since I don’t think mid-season coaching changes are a good idea, and this team isn’t built to Nellie’s strengths, I think it makes more sense to start building for the future. That means somebody other than Nellie as coach, and, without a commitment to his style as coach, I don’t see the value of him at GM.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since I don’t think mid-season coaching changes are a good idea, and this team isn’t built to Nellie’s strengths, I think it makes more sense to start building for the future. That means somebody other than Nellie as coach, and, without a commitment to his style as coach, I don’t see the value of him at GM

The only positive I see for this would be if
1) the season starts poorly and any sort of playoff run is out of the question by january
2) It’d give us an opportunity to evaluate Smart. Which would do two things
a) Either he proves us doubters wrong and is the future or
b) He is as terrible as I believe and we end up with high draft pick

3) It would allow sufficient time to get the real coaching search on. Worst case scenario it ends up like kings in 2008/9. But you know what, they got a good coach and franchise player out of it.

I don’t think any of them minded the Kenny Natt exerience considering what it led to.

Like I said above. My worry is we’re too close to beginning of season to find anything other than a 3rd rate recycled coach.

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well ...

We could always hire Smart, give him a relatively inexpensive two-year contract (Smart for two years would be cheaper than a lot of guys for one) with the idea being that we fire him or extend him at the end of the season.

That strikes me as a better choice than leaving Nellie in charge.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

hmm...

The thing is, I don’t believe Smart is a good head coach period. I think Nelson could do good with the current team. I was just speaking to event I am wrong, and it’s evident we need to just cut losses mid season, it still wouldn’t be a total ‘loss’.

On a slightly different subject, who would you like to see coach the Warriors going forward?

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two points:

Our talent level is so much better than last year that we’re going to be better regardless of who is the coach. It’s going to be a question of how much better we are.

I also don’t think you can really “cut your losses midseason” if the change would involve a change in styles/roles. The best you can do is have a new coach who’s re-establish discipline if you’ve lost it.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still think this team is about a .500 team at best

That doesn’t mean we don’t have improved talent, I just think West is too tough and when I compare this team i see 35 to 45 wins (if we catch some real fire). So if the team isn’t in the ballpark of .500 then I’d let Nelson go.

Otherwise I pretty much echo Supafishal’s sentiments below.

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because the ownership transfer does not seem likely to take place until training camp is already under way, it looks like any new coach would be a “midseason hire.” I agree these are a bad idea and doing it here would basically codemn this season to the scrap heap. For my own entertainment, as a fan, I would prefer to watch a Nelson coached team. If he needs to be shipped out mid-year, so be it. I have seen nothing from Smart that indicates he really even deserves a chance.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, it's not a "midseason hire" if you still have time to put in a new offensive system

… and practice it, which you don’t in the regular season, but you do even into trading camp.

But I suspect that, since Lacob won’t officially take over in time, what will “officially” happen is that Nellie will decide not to come back, and the team will promote smart as an interim head coach. It’ll be an under-the-table firing and Nellie will go along because he’s going to get his full paycheck.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh the paycheck is a done deal. Lacob better know that or he’s in for a world of pain. I suspect they factored that into the purchase price.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

And Anthony Tolliver isn't that good.

I don’t understand how you rate players on your blog based on how they fit with Nellie rather than their actual production. Jannero Pargo isn’t even decent. Just curious on how players like that are good players to you?

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 18, 2010 10:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Haha. Well, you can add Devin Harris to this list.

Urban legend (and court documents in the Cuban vs. Nelson case) have it that on the day he was fired, his last action was to convince his son Donnie to take Harris and not the Russian bust Podkolzin at #5 in 2004. The Mavs still acquired Podkolzin via trade later that day.

"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban

by Norsktroll on Sep 18, 2010 11:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Wrong

The trade had already been set up before the pick was made- it was Dallas that chose Devin, even though the Wiz were the drafting team.

by dprodigy19 on Sep 18, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I considered Harris for the list,

as well as Anthony Randolph, who I know many people believe will be a future all-star (I’m not so sure). I left them off the list because I wasn’t 100% sure that Nellie was in control of the decision-making when they were selected. Nellie was despondent that Cuban let Nash go, and the Harris pick was dictated to him, either directly or by circumstances. As for Randolph, Mullin might still have been in control when he was selected. But he is certainly a Nellie type big man, in theory if not in practice.

by Feltbot on Sep 18, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why would you hire Nellie to be GM ...

… of a team which was clearly not built to his strengths?

by Ronaldinho on Sep 18, 2010 11:12 AM PDT reply actions  

His strengths are not as limited as you suggest.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

1988-1993 was 22-17 yrs ago...Nellie's Time is Done

There is no way, under any scenario he should be kept around.

by TheDubFan on Sep 18, 2010 11:22 AM PDT reply actions  

The truth is that...

when Nellie is no longer around NBA basketball, if no one has grabbed his torch of inovation and ability to get more from a team than the sum of its parts, we will be in for a boring era of basketball. Since he must eventually depart – sooner or later – a future post/article/feature on who might possibly carry that torch in the future should be written (somewhere).

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

You think that nobody else is innovating?

You don’t watch much basketball, do you?

Noticed what Mike D’Antonni is going?

Nellie hasn’t really been innovating for a long time.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 19, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not saying nobody else is innovating

I respect what D’Antonni does. If he is to be a great innovator going forward, I look forward to it. I just think the question deserves more attention than it gets. It seems to me that most of the press focuses on what already works – even if it’s boring.

As for Nellie, if he gets a chance this year, we will see if he can still innovate.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 19, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

“the press” gets paid to opine, not draw up schemes. If they were aware of the next big step forward in basketball strategy they’d be getting paid to be a GM. So yes, they are going to focus on “what works,” because winning teams generally garner more interest than losing ones (we seem to be the odd, and wonderful, exception).

As for Nellie, he is responsible for a great deal of innovation on the offensive end. His ability to identify and explot mismatches is HOF worthy, in my opinion. But most of the innovating tool place years ago. These days he falls back into his comfort zone, which involves getting as many shooters on the court as possible. It’s too bad, because I think there is room in the NBA, if he really wanted to embrace the “mad scientist” role. I don’t see him having the energy to do that as a coach. Would it be different as a GM? I don’t see why. Unless Felbot is correct and he is partly responsible for some of the moves this offseason, there is nothing that indicates his ability to evaluate players who contribute through means other than scoring is anything special. Even if he did add value there, could he put his proclivities on the shelf in the face of a new coach who didn’t share his strategic inclinations? Moreover, has he made too many enemies around the league to be successful in a role that requires the occassional massage job on opposing executives? Maybe, maybe not, but why risk it? We have a developing nucleus of young talent, but the window of opportunity for any team is typically pretty short unless you have a superstar with a rock solid commitment to your franchise (e.g Dirk, Duncan). Do you really believe that Nelson brings enough positive to the table to outweigh the very real possibility of his torpedoing this whole thing on his way out the door? You can laud his accomplishments, which are numerous, but you better also acknowledge that he’s left quite a few fires burning in his wake over the years. The chance for a clean break and fresh start after this season is an opportunity this franchise cannot afford to pass up.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 19, 2010 5:37 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   2 recs

there is nothing that indicates his ability to evaluate players who contribute through means other than scoring is anything special

It is simply amazing to me that this sentiment persists about Don Nelson. You seriously cannot maintain this opinion without having your head stuck in the sand, or a predilection to believe everything you read in the media. Let me just list for you some players that Nellie evaluated, drafted, trade for or picked up off the scrap heap:

Sidney Moncrief, Paul Pressey, Bob Lanier, Alton Lister (Bucks version), Mitch Richmond, Mario Elie, Vincent Askew, Latrell Sprewell, Tyrone Hill, Chris Gatling, Josh Howard, Eduardo Najera, Adrian Griffin, Greg Buckner, Raja Bell (twice), Stephen Jackson, Matt Barnes, Rony Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike.

What do those players have in common? They were all without question among the best defenders (or rebounders) in the league at their positions. Many of them All-Pro defenders. AND THEY WERE ALL HAND-SELECTED BY DON NELSON BECAUSE OF THEIR DEFENSIVE ABILITY.

Don Nelson practically invented the concept of the long, athletic defensive 2 guard or wing player. He NEVER goes to war without at least two (Except last season, when Jackson absconded and Azubuike was dragged off screaming. You’re not one of those who blames Nellie for that, are you?)

Which is why those people in the media or on the boards who insist that Dorell Wright and Rodney Carney are not Don Nelson type players — that he had no hand in bringing them aboard, and that their addition is a sign that Larry Riley is exercising independence of Don Nelson, or being guided by Joe Lacob — just makes me laugh.

Dorell Wright and Rodney Carney are QUINTESSENTIAL Don Nelson players, as anyone who cared to peruse the above list with an open and thinking mind would immediately recognize.

by Feltbot on Sep 19, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

It's laughable you call the recent acquisition of Raja Bell made by Nelson as a hand selected move for a defender.

Riley is the GM, and Bell was nothing more than an expiring contract.

Stephen Jackson,

If you are going to give Mullin blame for moves during his tenture, you need to give him credit for moves he made. Nelson wasn’t GM. Mullin was. Mullin made the trade for the player. Stop giving Nellie credit for this stuff.

Rony Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike.

How can Turiaf be Nelson’s move, yet Maggette was a Mullin move. They were made during the same offseason….
And you are the first person to think Azubuike was more than a d-league call up made by Mullin, at the time. Nelson wasn’t scouting the d-league in midseason. Seriously Felt…. And Buike is not an all pro defender. Solid defender, but nothing special.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

hater

Can’t see the logic in what felbot’s saying. Look, it’s ok for more than one person to be right. Nellie is a true basketball genius. Give him the opportunity to retire in style, finishing his contract. I see him as the coach for this year, but not the longterm answer. NY and Dallas were both good for Nellie and after Nellie.
I don’t think he’s the longterm answer, but I don’t think that answer is so easily available, let alone necessarily better.
I’ve heard lots of support for Brian Shaw, but he has absolutely no track record, so you have to be skeptical about him. So what if he’s from Oakland? I was born in LA. Does that mean I should be in line for the Lakers’ gig?
 Between the Nellie eras we went through every kind of coach in the book, and never sniffed a .500 record. Nellie did that twice since he’s been back. It’s not a championship, obviously, but at least he keeps the Warriors relevant outside of the bay area. Give him his last year.
I get the feeling that the Gov doesn’t remember the ‘95-’05 Dubs. I do. Nellie is the best option right now.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 9:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

not you

That’s just the name I see pop up on GSoM that people get excited about.
You’re just a very vocal Nellie hater. That’s OK. Who would you personally like to see them hire as his replacement?

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I actually voted keep Nellie.

I don’t think Nellie’s a good fit for us anymore, but there’s no one available that i would rather have. I might give Silas a shot, but we know Smart would get digs first.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't like Smart

Based mostly on his performance last year. And I think if you’re gonna clean house, you have to get all the cobwebs out.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

And I feel you’re missing my point, which is, Nellie has been heavily involved in every good Warriors memory I have, and every drop of success that we’ve tasted. Everyone else had their chances and stunk. Nellie got a Chris Cohan owned team over .500, and no one else ever has.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:22 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nellie got a Chris Cohan owned team over .500, and no one else ever has.

It’s a pity the NBA hall of fame committee don’t value this like NBA championships. Cause really it’s about the same level of difficulty

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Glad someone caught that.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 21, 2010 11:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yes, indeed.

Nellie has won when he had good talent, under Cohan. That hasn’t happened very often. He’s lost – badly – when he hasn’t had good talent.

The catch is that Nellie is, in large part, responsible for the talent drain. Dating back to the Webber fiasco, Nellie has been intimately involved with forcing a series of talent-losing trades. He doesn’t bear SOLE responsibility for our relative dearth of talent, but he’s definitely contributed to it.

Part of why I want him gone is that I’m worried that he’s in the process of destroying the value of two more of our players, and even though I think we’re in a much-improved talent situation, I don’t think we can afford more talent-losing transactions.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was born in LA. Does that mean I should be in line for the Lakers’ gig?

Wouldn’t be worst job to start your head coaching record. Tattoonate with a .750 winning percentage. Best coach ever

Give him his last year.
I get the feeling that the Gov doesn’t remember the ‘95-’05 Dubs. I do. Nellie is the best option right now.

Thank you. I’m not going to say Gov remembers or doesn’t. I just know what I remember. And it was NOT pretty.

At this point, management should let Nellie coach the last year (unless they got a real trick up there sleeve) and start planning now, WHO to get to succeed him. At this point if he’s fired and Warriors go on a coaching hunt it’ll likely be some 3rd rate recycled coach.

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Re: Stephen Jackson
Nelson wasn’t the GM. Mullin was. Mullin made the trade for the player.

At the time of the big midseason trade it was pointed out – even by Darth TK, if memory serves – that Nelson tried to make it work with what the Ws had, but quickly concluded that Dunleavy and Murphy had to go, pushing very hard for the trade.

As for Maggette, Nelson clearly liked using some of what he could do, so the idea that he supported having him seems fair.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 19, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, what Felt is doing is

giving Nelson credit for Turiaf, and blame to Mullin for Maggette. How can you do that? Mullin was GM at the time. He gets credit for both, or if you are so adamant Nellie is GM, neither. You can’t pick and choose to make your case sound better.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

At the same time

Jackson wasn’t the player he was until he played under Nelson. Not to say he wasn’t a streaky shooter, good defender, good passer but turnover prone. But he didn’t do it at same level he did for Nellie.

Listen to Jackson talk, he’ll even thank Nellie for a lot of what he is now. Really Jackson owes the whole organization for rehabbing his image along with making him a desired player, which makes what he did all the more despicable.
 

How can Turiaf be Nelson’s move, yet Maggette was a Mullin move. They were made during the same offseason….

No one is sure who made the Maggette move. What we know is Mullin thought Monta could play PG, Nelson was more skeptical on the matter. Upper management (Rowell/Cohan) were desperate for a ‘big’ signing after Baron left + we missed on Brand/Arenas. I don’t think Nellie ever ‘wanted’ Maggette. I’m not sure Mullin did either but he was in a situation where he had to deliver something to appease management who thought the fan-base would shrink without Baron. In short I always thought that move had more to do with PR/politics and thats NEVER good

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not to say he wasn’t a streaky shooter, good defender, good passer but turnover prone. But he didn’t do it at same level he did for Nellie.

I’m not sure this is true.

Jackson definitely scored at the best clip of his career under Nellie. That’s true. He also has some of his best assist numbers. But he also had his second-worst turnover season under Nellie, his third-worst rebounding season, and some of his worse steal seasons.

This is pretty consistent with the emphasis Nellie has. His free flowing system creates lots of good scoring opportunities, but lets people like Jackson ballhandle more than they should, resulting in too many turnovers. His lack of commitment to defense shows up in steal and block numbers, etc.

I think it’s a stretch to say that Jackson was somehow a much better player under Nellie. In some ways he was better, in some ways he was worse.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

In some ways he was better, in some ways he was worse.

Baron Davis is a far more important piece of that puzzle than either Nellie or Jack.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stephen Jackson, Matt Barnes, Rony Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike.


I focus on these guys because all the others came during the Before Time, in the Long, Long Ago and I am dubious as to how much we can glean from those decisions anymore.

Stephen Jackson: without a doubt, an excellent, elite-level defender. Below average rebounder. He also just so happens to think nothing of a fade away trey with 20 seconds on the shot clock.

Matt Barnes: good defender and energy guy. Nellie made him a captain, but he also used him sparingly towards the end as his shot wasn’t falling.

Turiaf: lousy rebounder, not much of “defender” in the technical, non-shotblocking sense. I don’t see how you can include him on this list.

Azubuike: meh. I liked the kid alot, and given our dearth of decent rebounders and defenders he seemed pretty good in those areas. But compared to the rest of the league he’s only mildly above average. His main advantage is that he’s solid in most areas. Elite? No way.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I realize my post left my meaning very unclear. I’m not suggesting a new title for Nellie, or the removal of Larry Riley. I believe Nellie is currently the de facto GM of the Warriors, in partnership with the good friend he installed in the job. I would like that partnership to continue. Sorry for the confusion.

by Feltbot on Sep 18, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm a Nellie supporter

Mostly because he’s been the Warriors coach every time something good has happened. I also am a big fan of Nellie the GM. I think he is a brilliant, though eccentric, basketball mind, and a keen eye for talent.
That said, I’d be surprised if he was with the team past this season. I hope that the team is great this year, and I can’t think of any available coach I’d rather have to bring along our backcourt, so I hope he makes it through the season. I also believe he is the best chance to coach us into the playoffs.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 18, 2010 1:16 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Agree - and you may be right about "past this season"

though I hope that you’re not. If you are correct about that, I hope he finds a place with some team, even if he takes some time off first.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't want to argue with all your points

but I think the idea was that Nelson has picked more excellent players than anyone we can think of (which we are of course free to debate), whatever dramas some of those players later developed and whatever mistakes Nelson may have admittedly made with some of them at times. Long career – mistakes are gonna happen.

On a few points though: Nellie did trade for Sikma towards the end with the Bucks, and if Moncrief had been healthy that season, they would have been a real threat for the title. Gatling’s Ws numbers were as low as they were because by the time he matured, the Ws had Webber. And let it not be forgotten that Nelson traded for both Nash and Nowitzki in the space of a few minutes (at a time when few if any touted Nash as a future star)!

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Marciulionis

sixth round.

Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)

by the.monk on Sep 18, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mitch Richmond: Obviously a great pick, but how can we forget that Nellie decided to trade him away for the underachieving Bill Owens?

Not to mention by trading for Owens, we passed on Dikembe Mutombo. Run TMC + Mutombo? That’s something that could have been awesome.

by Evanz on Sep 20, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

One clarification
Stephen Curry: A good pick, but it was really a no-brainer. He dropped to #7 and Nellie made the obvious choice. I think we need to give more credit to David Kahns’s stupidity than we do to Don Nelson’s genius for this pick.

STRONGLY disagree it was a no-brainer. At the time half of GSoM and media outlets were calling for Jordan Hill. Curry was by no means seen as a point guard. Most people thought he was a tweener, another 6-3 SG (like Monta). Brandon Jennings and Jrue Holliday had a lot of steam cause of youth/potential/athleticism.

Even after the pic, many places didn’t great Curry as a steal or lock to be good. The general sentiment. “Don Nelson drafts another undersized shooting guard who scores and can’t defend.. Sound familiar?!”

Let’s not make it sound like he was sitting on #1 with Tim Duncan

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

this

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

I don’t think anybody is denying Don Nelson’s past greatness, but let’s move forward, please. Let him go already…

by Sunset Warrior on Sep 18, 2010 1:34 PM PDT reply actions  

to be replaced by whom?

Who has you so excited about how they will coach this Warriors team that has been assembled for this year?

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t like the idea of Smart.

"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2

by golden_solitude on Sep 19, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don Nelson the GM…0 championships.

You have no idea if he was in control or not, we do not know as much about the inner workings of the Warriors/other teams as we think we do. Why pay a GM if Nellie is making all these genius draft decisions?

by belilaugh on Sep 18, 2010 2:34 PM PDT reply actions  

This is what I’ve been saying!! lol. Don Nelson DOES have an eye for talent….which is precisely why he should be a SCOUT, far far far far away from the team and Oracle areana. He can spend his time watching hula girls and visiting Euroleague games for all I care.

Enough is enough. The ODB has a track of record of burning bridges and being a major contributer to dysfunction to this franchise – on more than 1 occasion! Let’s see, who’d he have problems with? (which for many of them led to their removal from the team), There was ….Webber, Baron, Harrington, S Jax, A. Randolph, Biedrins, J. Crawford, Monta Ellis, Chris Mullin, etc etc.

. Lacob MUST fire Nellie if he is serious about changing the culture of this team. Furthermore, head coaches are overrated in basketball anyway. Basketball is definitively a player’s game more than any other team sport. Just ask Doc Rivers, who went from worst to first….why? Not because of his unbelievable coaching, but the future HOF players he was given.

And what point is there to keeping him? He is a lame duck.

Bottom line…Nelson’s cons far outweigh his pros and Lacob needs to send him packing if he’s serious about changing the tradition of dysfunction known as Warriors Basketball.

by RowellMustGo on Sep 18, 2010 3:54 PM PDT reply actions  

There will always be problem players

It comes with the territory. The longer one coaches (the longer one manages workers in any industry) the more players one will have some problems with. Some believe Nelson handled those problems incorrectly. Many critics have probably never been in situations comparable to those he was in. The coaches most often cited for their “superior” approach to player relations – Jackson, Riley, Pop – always seem to be coaches who had obvious championship contenders for rosters.

Your point about Doc Rivers is a good one. The players mostly determine how far a team can go. That’s why Nelson hasn’t won a championship. Coaches make a marginal, yet significant, difference. At best, they can maximize a team’s potential. Don Nelson has done that as well as or better than anyone.

Lacob should only replace him if he’s got someone who will achieve more with this year’s team. He should ignore the vitriol.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 18, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

nellie had nothing to do with Mullie getting traded

He actually resurrected Mullin’s career.
Which of Nellie’s former teams were wrecked because of him? Cohan wrecked the Warriors, that is quite obvious. Dallas and New York were both strong teams after he left. Milwaukee fans still love him.
You said clearly that he wrecked his teams. Please respond to that.
Also, which of the superstars you mentioned was a championship talent? MVP?
I didn’t think so.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 9:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

And Re: Chris Mullin

Nelson may have saved Mullin’s life.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 19, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m actually really surprised by the close poll results.

by RowellMustGo on Sep 18, 2010 3:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Nelson's motivation

would not be the same in a different capacity than what he’d done previously – and one wonders if he’d be as effective, regardless of Riley’s ascention this year

another scenario has the team promoting him upstairs while Smart takes the reins, and if that falters Nelson could finish out the season, but I consider that less likely than Nelson starting on the bench and Smart finishing out the season if Nelson and/or team falters along the way

"It’s frickin’ Sisyphean to be a Warriors Fan."

by hardcore on Sep 18, 2010 4:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Lacob

seems to be inclined against over-reaction, or even appearing so: not at all a bad thing, to avoid giving the impression he needs to make big changes for his ego or that he’s susceptible to outside pressures (if a coach’s losing or public behavior hurts revenues, another matter of course). A middle way seems possible—if the team flounders in mediocrity through the winter, install an interim coach and keep Nelson as a personnel consultant for the duration of the contract. If Lacob really gets along with him, he could offer an emeritus personnel title for the future.

Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)

by the.monk on Sep 18, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with you Sleepy

as I noted in a comment above, I did not make my point at all clear in my post. I don’t want Nellie to be appointed GM, and I’m sure that’s the last thing he wants. My point is simply that he is extremely useful to Larry Riley and the organization as a talent evaluator, and advisor on building the roster. In my opinion that is something work keeping around, quite apart from his value as a coach.

by Feltbot on Sep 18, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dedication

Oh sure. His dedication has been quite obvious all summer right?? He has not even met with Lacob yet. The guy has been playing a very cunning game since around January saying how much he want so coach and come back…wanna’ know why….6 million reasons why. He is sly and know how to read and understand the small print in his contract….PERIOD

by natet on Sep 19, 2010 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

lol
Special Advisor or Senior Counsel or Guru or something, sure. Full-time General Manager? In 2010? Nah.

i’d go with Special Senior Guru

Over The Line!

by Lat We N Trash on Sep 19, 2010 2:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think the general idea is that Nellie would be an awesome person to keep around in limited capacity. Don’t fire Riley (who’s been legitimately good to the point) and replace him with Nellie, but just make sure that Nellie’s still getting routine phone calls from the FO for input on roster moves and make damn sure he’s around to evaluate draft talent. If he wants to be a part of the organization, the team would be making a mistake to cut him out. He knows basketball better than nearly anyone on the planet. You want guys like that in your ear when you’re making decisions.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Sep 19, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I feel like there's a certain naivitee around here.

Nellie, when busting his ass, working hard every day, is defintiely an asset that any front office in the league would like.

But he’s not engaged like that any more. He wasn’t particularly involved with this draft, wasn’t there for a lot of the scouting and the meetings.

He’s not interested anymore.

This happened in Dallas, too. He began to check out. He was rejuvinated his first year or two here, and then started to slip.

I think the best place for Nellie, at this point, is on a beach in Maui. It’s time for him to ride off into the sunset.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 19, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

So let me get this straight -

You found a moment early in the first half of what amounts to an exhibition game, and because Don Nelson isn’t going apoplectic, that means he wasn’t any different than he is now?

Really?

That’s some pretty dubious logic. I mean, by that logic, if I can find a moment when Monta makes a crazy circus shot, that proves that he doesn’t take them when he can’t make them, right?

I’m honestly curious how old you are. I’m curious how much you were watching the game during Nellie’s prime. I’m curious how much you were listening to interviews on KNBR, watching the post-game press-conferences, etc.

As for the issue of player health, please notice how it doesn’t just apply to Monta last year.

It applies to Jackson the year before. And it applies to Baron in his last half-season here, when he stopped giving any effort at all on defense, and even his offense got lazy. And we didn’t have massive injury concerns during all those games.

The complete absence of any attempt during the games to change what the player was doing.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 21, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Seriously man, I respect you as a poster, but you've kind of come unhinged on this topic.

Starting to ask me how old I am isn’t so much rude, but completely uncalled for considering the content of my posts. Again, I’m not offended, it just speaks volumes about how precarious your position is on this topic.

You found a moment early in the first half of what amounts to an exhibition game, and because Don Nelson isn’t going apoplectic, that means he wasn’t any different than he is now?

Are you suggesting that coaches don’t take the FIBA world championships seriously? This wasn’t the games in China against the Bucks, this was the last time the USA won the FIBA world championships before 2010. It’s a pretty big deal an it was a very big deal to Don Nelson. You seriously don’t think there was any pressure on Dream Team II to not just win, but to blow every team out?

Regardless, yah, that was one game, but it shows that his demeanor isn’t some newly developed loss of enthusiasm, but rather something he’s done for pretty much the entire time I’ve been watching him. How many examples would convince you? 10? 100? Something tells me no amount of evidence will convince you on this subject.

As for the issue of player health, please notice how it doesn’t just apply to Monta last year.

It applies to Jackson the year before. And it applies to Baron in his last half-season here, when he stopped giving any effort at all on defense, and even his offense got lazy. And we didn’t have massive injury concerns during all those games.

If your highest paid player is paid primarily to score the basketball, you think the coach is going to bench him for shot-selection and not deferring to a bunch of nobodies? If he really wanted to get fired as TK has alleged ever since his contract extension, he would have done just that. As I had mentioned before, he obviously said something to him to upset him or there wouldn’t have been the whole public blow up followed by the constant media speculation that they were feuding. A coach doesn’t have much of a hammer with the franchise player, but he clearly is one of the few coaches with enough cred to still ride him bhindthe scenes.

And if you had actually listened to Nelson’s pst-game comments, you’d know that he only praised Monta on the rare occasions that he had a good passing or defensive game. Nothing on the scoring. Not too subtle.

The year before last year Jackson was the alpha dog, with apparently clear backing from the Warriors alpha dog (Rowell) on an injury-riddled team without Monta. You going to tell the guy who the team president loves and all the other players defer to shoot less? Also, where was Jackson’s career and reputation at before he was under Nelson? I heard that Indiana was desperate to unload him because of fan perception stemming from the brawl in Detroit.

Baron Davis has not given any coach any effort once he signed his first big money deal. Except for Don Nelson that is. Ask Byron Scott and Mike Dunnleavy Sr. how less minutes have improved Baron Davis’s attitude, duriblity and defensive effort?

I’m honestly curious how old you are. I’m curious how much you were watching the game during Nellie’s prime. I’m curious how much you were listening to interviews on KNBR, watching the post-game press-conferences, etc.

A comment like this is begging to be ignored. It’s basically you departing from any pretense of having n honest discussion and launching right into attacking my knowledge as a fan and my, um, oldness. But, being young and stupid, I’ll bite. Mostly because I want to tell you exactly why I’m so vehemently in favor of Don Nelson being the coach.

I started watching the Warriors casually during Mitch Richmond’s rookie year. The next year, Greg Papa moved over to the TV side and I watched pretty much every game until I went away to college in 1994. When I cam back in 1996, I continued to watch the incredible garbage for the next 10 years until Nelson returned in 2006. By the time Montgomery was into his second season, I had basically started to check out and reminess about what good coaching looked like. Here’s my GsOM comment from the 2005-2006 season about how I missed Nelson: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/comments/2006/3/4/12387/44154/4#4

So, I am in support of Don Nelson because I’ve watched over 1000 Warriors games and pretty much every one that Don Nelson has coached and have come to the informed conclusion that he is the best coach for this roster. C’mon man, I’m only 14-years-old and even I can see that. Gimme a break!

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 21, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Are you suggesting that coaches don’t take the FIBA world championships seriously?

Yes. This is exactly what I’m suggesting. You’re not talking about the olympics. You’re talking about the world championships. Nobody takes them particularly seriously. For NBA players and coaches, it’s a working vacation. This was particularly the case 15 years ago when the talent gap between the US and everyone else was much larger.

I’m also suggesting that a coach who blew his stack five minutes into the game because a player took a bad shot would lose his team in a heartbeat. You can’t do that in an exhibition game, and yes, that’s what non-Olympic FIBA games are to the players.

And if you had actually listened to Nelson’s pst-game comments, you’d know that he only praised Monta on the rare occasions that he had a good passing or defensive game. Nothing on the scoring. Not too subtle.

There is one language that NBA players understand: playing time.

If a coach isn’t using playing time as a lever, he’s not seriously trying to change his player’s behavior.

Nellie understands this. He’s done it in the past. Heck, he did it last season with Randolph. But he has players he gives a free pass to, and I’ll tell you why:

Because fighting with players who see themselves is stars is exhausting, and the coach rarely wins. Nellie learned this one the hard way with the Webber situation, and I don’t think he’s gone to the mat against a “star” player since.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 21, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

How much international basketball have you watched?

It is not something they take particularly seriously, most years.

The players are coming off a long NBA season and are tired. In an Olympic year, at the very least there are a lot of people watching, but for the FIBA worlds, there aren’t.

This isn’t rocket science.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 22, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: How much international basketball have you watched?

Haha. Honestly, more than I would like to have watched. I don’t like it, and I suspect you’re not a big fan either. That doesn’t make it universally uninteresting.

It is not something they take particularly seriously, most years.

The players are coming off a long NBA season and are tired. In an Olympic year, at the very least there are a lot of people watching, but for the FIBA worlds, there aren’t.

Then why do they even bother volunteering to play for free? To be ironic?

Why do they compete in camps to make the team? Like last summer they had a team USA camp which players showed up even though there was no tournament that year.

Oh yah and this is what Nelson said about the notoriously unselfish and hard-working Shaq:


‘I remember the thing that put our whole team at ease was the fact that (Shaquille) asked to come off the bench. He didn’t want to start, so I could start Alonzo Mourning or one of the other bigs that I had. Shaq was in his own way the leader of that team. Not starting was one of the leadership things that he did, but he was there for every practice, worked hard and really set the tone. I remember the first time we just took some laps around the gym, he led the entire team in wind sprints. That just set the tone for the whole thing.’

Nelson on what it meant to him:

’I’ve been coaching for 40 years or whatever, and it’s probably the highlight of my whole career,’ said Nelson. ’It’s something that we did for free. We did it for our country. We hadn’t won a gold medal in a long time in the World Championship, and that was really a special time.’

Well, it sounds like it was somewhat important to him although I’m sure you’ll say it was marketing propaganda even though he’s talking about 16 years ago and doesn’t exactly have a history of regurgitating the company line.

This isn’t rocket science.

Good, that means nobody is going to die because of the bizarre and unsupportable conclusions you’ve come to.

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 22, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, you know, the whole meaningful-tryout thing is pretty new.

Back in the mid-90s – you know, the period of time we’re talking about – the gap between the US and the rest of the world was so large that national-team invites were basically prestige awards.

I think for the dream team there was a college tryout for the last roster spot, and they gave it to Laettner because he was white (I half kid). There were challenging tryouts back in the 80s, btu remember in the clip you posted, you’re talking about the early era of NBA players. That drastically changed the way international hoops was handled here. As the rest of the world has caught up, and we’ve had a couple of teams fail to win despite being the most talented team, we’ve gradually put more emphasis on creating the best team rather than just offering up invites to the best players.

What I’m saying is that I was around then. I was a big basketball fan at the time. And trust me, the FIBA world championships were not on anybody’s radar.

You’re accusing me of being unreasonable, but let’s come back to what started this. You found a clip of a game where the US was huge favorites. Where, at the time, we are winning the game. Six or seven minutes into the first half.

And you want to draw conclusions about Don Nelson’s level engagement from the fact that he’s not jumping up and down because a player took a dumb shot.

That is just moronic.

Show me a similar moment in an NBA game in the 4th quarter, and I’ll agree that maybe you have something.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 22, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

What I’m saying is that I was around then. I was a big basketball fan at the time. And trust me, the FIBA world championships were not on anybody’s radar.

What I’m saying is that Don Nelson took it seriously and so did the players and I provided quotes to that end. I mean he specifically said so.

Also, we’re specifically talking about Don Nelson and Dream Team II not some vague idea of the universal popularity of the FIBA worlds in 1994. That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

And you want to draw conclusions about Don Nelson’s level engagement from the fact that he’s not jumping up and down because a player took a dumb shot

That’s a dishonest reinvention of what I was showing you. It was a crapload of bad shots, one after another. Not just one bad shot. There were also quite a few sloppy turnovers and missed gambles on defense.

Show me a similar moment in an NBA game in the 4th quarter, and I’ll agree that maybe you have something.

Maybe I have something? LOL. You’re the one grasping at straws and slinging insults, I think it’s very evident which one of us may “have something” here.

I only brought the 1994 thing up because I was watching ti one night a few weeks ago and started busting up when I saw Nelson calmly sitting there while Mark Price was putting Stephen Jackson’s shot-selection skillz to shame an the announcers were saying that he should call timeout.

Actually, I’ll do you one better. Why am I bothering to show examples from 16 years ago when we can look at the complete absurdity of your base argument? Let’s look at Nelson, in the 4th quarter of some close games last year.

Here’s 3 examples:

1. I’m sure you remember the last game of the season in Portland. He pretty much stopped the game to defend his players in a meaningless game.

2. At Thunder: 3:19 mark Going nuts because of a bad call in a meaningless game.

3. At Clippers: 2:32 mark Getting up to high-five Morrow after a big shot.

That is just moronic.

Well at least this is consistent with your overriding theme of just baselessly asserting false statements or over and over again contrary to all the evidence and logic that have been presented without providing any evidence of your own.

To actually substantiate your claim, you would have to show a string of close games in the 4th quarter where he wasn’t paying attention. All you are doing is perpetuating a false stereotype which is almost entirely rooted in a guy’s facial expression during non-crucial times throughout a game. He’s always coached like that.

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 22, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Should read:

To actually substantiate your claim, you would have to show a string of close games in the 4th quarter where he wasn’t paying attention. . .and also explain why he did thos those 11 things I listed in this post from above, if he had checked actually checkedout:

play like a 1 man guy

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 22, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, it was "Dream Team 2"

Although nobody really thought of it that way. In fact, a common complaint among basketball fans was that calling that team “dream team 2” was a joke. There was only one Dream Team, and it existed because Jordan, Magic, and Bird were on the same time.

“Dream Team 2” was a marketting name which didn’t mean squat. Notice how none of the big names came back for that team … but a bunch of them came back two years later for the Olympics again. Trust me, it’s not that they didn’t offer Barkley a spot. (And, you know, it’d be nice if you admitted you were dead wrong about the competitive trials for the team back then). You didn’t have healthy players turning down the Dream Team … but a whole bunch of them couldn’t be bothered that season.

Think about that for a second.

In other words – the Olympics mattered. The off-year FIBA Basketball Worlds? Not so much. Aside from Shaq, we send a bunch of guys who were second-tier players.

You saying “It was Dream Team 2” as if that means something just indicates that you have no idea – none in the slightest – about how basketball fans viewed that team.

You want evidence, well, jeeze, how many times did Nellie not bat an eyelash when Monta threw up a stupid shot in games this year?

In fact, did he EVER yell at Monta, or pull him from a game, when Monta took a stupid shot rather than pass to an open man?

It’s not like Monta didn’t take plenty of bad shots.

I’ve said this before, and I say this again – because I actually don’t think that being engaged is about yelling at your players when they do something stupid, most of the time.

Used to be that Nellie was the master of the match-up. He was constantly shifting lineups, exploiting mismatches, and when he drew up a play in a timeout you felt confident that the team was going to get a great look.

I don’t see that anymore. I see a coach who plays one system, regardless of the opposition. He doesn’t seem to still come up with interesting or unusual plays out of timeouts. He gives star players free reign.

All of those things say “checked out” to me far more than how much he yells. But he did that a heck of a lot more back then, too.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 22, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now I am confused

You want evidence, well, jeeze, how many times did Nellie not bat an eyelash when Monta threw up a stupid shot in games this year?

I am paraphrasing a bit here, but I thought the arguement Donuts was making was that Nellie hasn’t changed and that he has always been the guy who didn’t just pull guys from a game. I don’t see how this type of evidence would prove anything. Essentially, Nellie has had a tendency to carry himself in the same manner for years and you would have to argue he has a long history of having a short leash with his “star players.”

To be honest I think there is a little truth in both sides of the arguement. Considering Nellie’s age and surliness I personally question whether or not he can really put the time and effort in that is required regardless of the fact he has always done it somewhat the same way over the years. At the same time though, my theory is mearly conjecture based on the fact that the old people I know get old, senile, and more surly. (plus probably the fact the players with long term contracts can see that he is getting up there and know he isn’t going to be around forever)

Again, not the biggest Nellie fan in the world, but having said that, I don’t recall him being that different over the years.

"Melo is waay better than Roy."~ J-Ridah

"I want to see how we play with D.Wright before we think about the melo trade ." ~ J-Ridah Part II

"I said that because even tho Melo is a good player we shouldnt give up key pieces to get him. In order to get him we’d have to give up Ellis,Udoh and probably wright just to rent him for a year. No player in the league is worth that much for 1 year. Not even Lebron." ~ J-Riday Part II: The Explanation

by wallywagon11 on Sep 23, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

yes

And Posey is having amother great game.
You're the worst Al Capone

by JohnnyDangerously on Sep 20, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

And that’s why every single point about Nellie joining the FO as a consultant (not the GM, where he’d actually be making decisions, just in the capacity where someone who knows the game gets asked questions and asked to help out) starts with “if he wants to.” If he signs on as a consultant, he’s obviously interested in helping out, and even if he proves to be completely unhelpful and uninterested, you can just let him go without any fuss. There’d be no need for any FO restructuring if it turned out that “Special Consultant: Don Nelson” wasn’t pulling his weight—you’d just move on. I really don’t see the logic in pushing him into the Maui sunset if he wants to be here. If he really doesn’t care anymore, fine, but pushing him out without really seeing what he wants to give, just because he doesn’t seem engaged anymore, is sort of ridiculous.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Sep 19, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

You're forgetting we have a new defacto GM Lacob

I credit Lacob for the following:

- Not signing Pargo (He does read our boards!!)
- Jeremy Lin
- Carney
- Amundson

by JSML on Sep 19, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

One thing I love about Riley is..

He definitely comes from same School of BS/Smokescreen-ing as Don Nelson. You just get the vision the duo sat back and smoked huge cigars after picking Curry, laughing at David Kahn.

You are right to credit Riley. It should be noted, I think the duo work well together and thats always important with your GM/coach

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your blatant Pro-Nelson Propaganda is just as bad as the Mercury's anti-Nelson propaganda

Nelson is good talent evaluator and a creative coach. But let’s be real, none of his teams have even reached the finals while his been there. In fact, only the Mavs have even come close to a championship with a Nelson built team, and that was only after he had been ousted from the organization completely. Basically, Nellie builds interesting, entertaining teams, but they’re always deeply flawed.

I’m assuming this post is in reaction to Adam Lauridsen’s most recent post. I actually think that Lauridsen hits the nail on the head when it comes to Nellie’s shortcomings as a coach, basically that he is an egomaniac and has trouble dealing with star players. Nellie the GM has the same problem with Nellie the coach. He thrusts himself into the spotlight, instead of the players who are, you know, actually playing the games.

Basically, I think you’re wrong on Nellie. He’s got an occasionally brilliant basketball mind and he’s a good talent evaluator, but he’s not worth the headaches he brings.

Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!

by philthiest on Sep 18, 2010 6:43 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

I'll fess up... I voted "keep Nelson"

Maybe I’m too soft. Maybe he is going to explode his ego all over our brand- new roster…lord knows he’s not known for making graceful exits

But look, the guy is our coach for now. There’s not really enough time to make an organized switch to a whole new coaching staff before training camp starts. I would prefer that we don’t make some sort of knee-jerk reaction when our team needs stay focused on preparing for the season.
Plus, I think it is a given that he is gone by the all-star break if things aren’t working out

Give the old guy one last shot, let him earn his way out the door, if that’s truly what’s beat for the team

"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh

by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 18, 2010 7:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Oh, but Nelson the GM is the worst idea since

…well, whatever Kahn did today

"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh

by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 18, 2010 7:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I love what Nelson has done for the franchise but it is his time to go.

We need to keep his run N’ gun offense, but there needs to be a focus on defense. We have the horses to play some “d” and the effort needs to be made. Also, the Warriors need to develop a half-court offense. Playoff teams know how to play possesion basketball and if we’re to be one of those teams we need to learn it.

by SmittytheCutman on Sep 18, 2010 8:06 PM PDT reply actions  

Lacob

should honestly 1o1 ask Nelson do he wants to coach -if he doesn’t want -give him his paychek and send him wherever he wants
if he still wants to coach -let him do that -but if around new year team isn’t around 0,500 -give him his paychek and send him wherever he wants

any other scenario keeping him around W’s is worthless

Over The Line!

by Lat We N Trash on Sep 19, 2010 12:53 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

KEEP HIM!!!!

best coach ever behind Riley, Tomjanovich, Poppovich, Auerbach and P. Jackson

=Gaucho=

by Gaucho! on Sep 19, 2010 9:36 AM PDT reply actions  

April Fools!!!!

Somebody MUST be kidding with this idea. This guy should be put on the first stagecoach out of town. I will have lost a whole lot of respect for the new ownership if they keep this sarcastic head game player around for one minute after the ink is dry. It is just a very poor move and I would seriously doubt that Lacob plays mr. feelgood on his commercial investments with executives. Nelson is poison and has proven it time and time again. I am totally opposed to Smart but I can ALMOST swallow hard for a year…,I say ALMOST because he is a fraud but at least he does not look like he died on the bench and I seriously doubt he will or did play with the heads of the players and turn them off or “get injured.” With a high degree of certainty there were several players who were not as injured as one might suspect but could not stand being around Nelson or playing for him.

by natet on Sep 19, 2010 10:12 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Nellie

Question: Was it Nellie that passed on Kobe Bryant?

by Dawan on Sep 19, 2010 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Was it Nellie that passed on Kobe Bryant?

No. Nellie was long gone from the Warriors at that point and hadn’t yet taken over calling the shots for the Mavs.

by jae on Sep 19, 2010 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

and GSW wasn’t the only team to pass on the petchulant boy wonder

"It’s frickin’ Sisyphean to be a Warriors Fan."

by hardcore on Sep 19, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

For good reason:

He refused to play for anyone besides the Lakers. We should have seen his attitude coming.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

Although it’s officially been denied (because it would have been against the league rules) everybody knew that he was drafted with the details of the Divac trade already in place. People were predicting that trade long before the draft.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

If I remember correctly,

Kobe (or his agent) made it clear he’d only play for the Lakers. I recall that getting a bit of flak being as he was 17 at the time. I think it had more to do with Jerry West selling his parents though

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

cont'd

For me, passing on TMac a few years later was the far bigger Warriors sin. Huge undeniable talent. After success of Garnett, Kobe the high school thing wasn;’t taboo. And instead we took Adonal.

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nelson trades

Agreed Nelson drafts well.
But drafting is a small part of being a GM.

I just want one of these pro nelson people to show me one trade. Just one. Where nelson wasnt taken in the deal and got the worst. And i am speaking Nelson as a Warriors GM. Just one.

billy owens deal – no
t hill – no
c webb – no

and on and on and on.

I argue that Mullin was a better GM when it came to making deals that benefitted the warriors.

by legionurmaster on Sep 19, 2010 5:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Well...

He made the trade that enabled him to pick CWebb. He traded Owens for Ronnie Seikaly who could have complimented cwebb very well if Webber hadn’t blown up the team. Trading for Ralph Sampson obviously didn’t work out, but it was worth a shot. Sampson played quite well for Nelson (who supposedly can’t coach centers) until he went down permanently to injury. And again, he pushed hard for dumping Dunleavy and Murphy.

Of course, ruling out trades he made for the Bucks and Mavs is ridiculous.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 19, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

trading Billy Owens for Rony Seikaly

Was a stroke of genius. Too bad Webber was a baby.
BTW, do you Webber supporters remember when Oakley made him CRY his rookie year? Trading Webber was more on Cohan than Nellie. Nellie even successfully sued Cohan because Cohan spun that against Nellie.
And Nellie did get a future all star and 3 first round picks for Webber… not bad really.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Aaarrrrgh!

Starting 5
Seikaly
Webber
Mullin
Sprewell
Hardaway

bench
Gatling
Pierce
Hill (?)
others I can’t remember

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 19, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know

It hurts, thinking about our team that never was…

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

yup

Pretty sure he was the T’wolves first ever all star. 1997.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Same year Webber made it.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 10:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

But he still wasn't a good player.

Bad rebounder, bad efficiency.

Webber >>>>> Gugliotta.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 19, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course Webber is better than Googs. But it’s not a bad pick up, along with three 1st round picks for a publicly disgruntled player who’s holding out. The Warriors even started that season undefeated while he was holding out.
Googs did help Minnesota look like an NBA team for the first time. And he had a good work ethic, and helped groom Garnett. He was a liked player by teammates, fans, and coaches.
 Googs accomplished more than he was expected to. Webber stepped down every time it was his moment to shine. Webber was infinitely more talented than Googs, and could have become the best basketball player of his generation.
Googs might have been the mid 90’s version of David Lee.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 19, 2010 11:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Did you see Googs play?

He wasn’t bad. He just wasn’t potential top 5 PF of all time good Webber was. (perhaps thats overzealous, though if the Kings didn’t get screwed by the league in 2002, and he won his title, i think more people would warm up to the idea).

By the war do yourself a favor and look at Googs numbers with the Bullets pre-trade. Per 36 mins he averaged 10.1 rebounds and 9.4, 3.9 and 3.6 assists. Webber averaged 10.2 rebounds and 4.0 assists.

Anyone with a good eye (disclaimer: thinking outside of B-R here) new Webber was the better talent who was going to go onto better things. BUT Googs was hardly a poor player. He was a very good one. Considering Webber was a bit of a premadonna at this point and going to be traded the value of a 24 year old Googs + picks was more than you could have hoped for.

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

After Googs was traded he became a Rasheed Wallace.

Little rebounding, bad scoring efficiency. Sure, he was promising, but Lee is a much better player than Googs.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 20, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he became Rasheed Wallace he would have been one of top 5 big men in his era

He wasn’t. ‘Sheed in his prime was the man. Don’t care if he didn’t rebound, defensively he was really only behind Duncan. Guy owned every PF. The only thing disappointing about ’Sheed was he could have been better. But thats a COMPLETELY different issue.

The point was, Webber was publicly demanding to leave. IT’s not that easy to get value. At the time Warriors got a very good young big (who was nowhere near webber but not bad) and some picks. Overall couldn’t hope for more.

by tafkasam on Sep 20, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, Rasheed was not a top 5 big man in his era.

Shaq, KG, Timmy, Dirk, Camby, Webber, Ben Wallace, Bosh, and even Amar’e come to mind. I probably left out a few too.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 20, 2010 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zo and Mutombo maybe

maybe a little old for this list.

I must look like a dork.

by Reverend_Randy on Sep 20, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

it depends what metric you use

like you (I think), I’m beginning to sour on WP. I’ve been looking more into Dean Oliver’s stats and Win Shares (as calculated at bball-ref.com). Anyway, if you compare Wallace and Camby, for example, you’d see that they are separated by only 0.001 in WS/48 (win shares/48 minutes – not to be confused with win score).

by Evanz on Sep 21, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

just to complete the story...

Career WS/48 numbers:

R. Wallace : 0.139
Camby : 0.140
B. Wallace : 0.145
Stoudemire : 0.184
Bosh : 0.158

By this metric, Stoudemire actually comes out ahead followed by Bosh, and the others are basically lumped together. Of course, Stoudemire and Bosh are relatively young, so their career numbers will probably begin to fall in the next few years.

by Evanz on Sep 21, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I haven't really soured on WP too much.

It’s still the best one out there, but there are some flaws that aren’t adressed, and i think the preseason predictions are meaningless.

And WinShares kinda sucks. If you play on a good team, you get win shares, even if you aren’t that good.

REPLY TO DONUT

by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 21, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nelson doesn't develop nor get along with his players and he plays them too many minutes.

I have no idea why you’re writing something like this :p. The old, fat DB smokes way too many cigars and drinks too much scotch. It’s do as I say, not do as I do.

Already we’re questioning whether Nelson should come back as head coach and nothing Larry Riley says or anyone else says will convince you that Riley is the guy who’s been making the moves as GM.

Nelson has won zero championships as a coach and he’s worn out his welcome yet again. It’s time to move on with a younger coach. It just goes to show that what Tim Kawakami has said is more valid than this piece.

"Go ahead. Make my day."

by callahan on Sep 20, 2010 4:38 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

W's were lucky that Curry slipped last year - Cousins was the payback this year...

Last year the Warriors were lucky when Curry slipped to them at #7. Thank the stupid draft by the Timberwolves for that, not some brilliant draft strategy by Nelson. This year the W’s were not so lucky and missed out on Cousins. Karma is a bitch…

by CS from Los Al on Sep 20, 2010 10:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Karma is a bitch…

Not sure how that phrase applies here. Are you suggesting the team did something last year to “deserve” bad luck in the lottery?

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 20, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let me go on record as hating the phrase “Karma is a Bitch.” No it isn’t. Even if it were real in the existential sense, it would by definition NOT be a bitch.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really?

Gatling and Spre for three? All Stars?

by OzFraud on Sep 20, 2010 11:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Spree was all NBA

And made the defensive team a few times. Sprewell was, for a year or two, the second best 2 in the league (behind MJ).

by Uwe Blog on Sep 21, 2010 11:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Let's be real honest

Let’s be real honest Warrior fans… Don Nelson brings an exciting brand of ball.. The “We Believe” Warriors were the most successful this franchise has been since… THE LAST TIME DON NELSON WAS COACH in the 90s. As fans we’ve gotta understand that we’ve been unlucky the last couple of years with injuries, and I understand how frustrating that could make fans who have been dying for a successful product for a long time now… but we shouldn’t call for the head of the orchestrator of the exciting product that we love so much.

For those that say he doesn’t develop talent, that’s a laugher. Last year, I believe was testament to how Don Nelson CAN develop talent under his system. Steph Curry had a tremendous second half of the season while playing with mostly D-Leaguers as his supporting cast. The Warriors should have been nowhere near 26 wins with most of their roster decimated with injury. Don Nelson should STILL be chasing Lenny Wilkens for all-time coaching wins.

Give Don a chance to run the show as GM/Senior Consultant once he gets tired with being on the sidelines. His track record with the Warriors franchise speaks volumes to his ability.

by richmeister3 on Sep 20, 2010 1:05 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Let’s be real honest

is this some kind of PR phrase?

i really like all your comments -all 3 of them -especially the one about Steph’s mom :)

Over The Line!

by Lat We N Trash on Sep 20, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Tea Party: Let’s Be Real Honest.™

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 20, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let’s Be Real Bat$*it

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 20, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

let's be honest

we’ve all dabbled in witchcraft and satanic cults, right? I mean, who hasn’t?

by Evanz on Sep 20, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess a Cali-based team’s blog is the wrong place to find intelligent political comments…what was I thinking

"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq

by Max_in_Missouri on Sep 20, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you're going to be "real honest" you have to admit -

That the last two times the Warriors made the playoffs were ALSO the most two talented Warrior teams we’ve seen during that stretch.

That probably has as much – if not more- to do with their success than Nellie’s coaching.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dave Berri has demonstrated that coaches have very little effect on won-loss record.

Nellie, for his career, was an exception (although I wonder if that would still show if you factor in the last two seasons, which I’m not sure Berri had time to include in his research).

We give the coach credit because it’s easy, especially in the absence of a true superstar player. We want to create people to idolize. It’s lazy thinking, but lots of people are lazy thinkers when it comes to sports.

Furthermore, in Nellie’s case, he was the architect of several of his more successful teams. He was also the architect of their destruction. If he built the team, he deserves credit beyond just his coaching job, as he deserves blame to the extent that he destroyed them.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 20, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

but compare Montgomery's last season to Nellie's first

The nucleus of Biedrins, Ellis, and Davis were all there already. And Murphy/Dunleavy were more productive than Harrington/Jackson. Why didn’t the team win under Monty?

by Evanz on Sep 20, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nucleus? In 2006? You really lost me at Dunleavy.

Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!

by Supafishal on Sep 20, 2010 10:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

A reasonable questoin. Let's break it down.

The team won 8 more games under Nellie. That’s non-trivial, but it’s also not earth-shattering, nothing drastic.

You say that the nucleus was there already, but that’s misleading. For example, Biedrins was a young player who got 1000 minutes under Monty in Monty’s last season. Under Nellie, he got 2300 minutes, and according to WP that, in addition to his improvement on a per-minute basis (he was better!) meant a difference 7.6 wins.

Of course, Monty should have played Biedrins more, because he was ready for it. But he didn’t.

Baron Davis also improved. How much of that is Nellie, and how much of that is Baron being incredibly motivated in his first full season here, and really re-committing to fitness in the offseason? A little bit of both, I think, but that’s a differnence of another three wins. (Having watched him in L.A., I think he recommitted to his fitness because he knew he was going to be in the kind of system he wanted to play.)

Matt Barnes and Michael Pietrus were also added to that team. THey seem like spare parts, but Barnes was actually our third-most productive player by WP48.

Monta improved some and played a lot more minutes.

Your “core” on Biedrins, Ellis, and Davis played 3837 combined minutes in Monty’s last year, contributing 10.52 wins. In Nellie’s first year, they played 7241 minutes, contributing 22.62 wins. It is, in fact, misleading to call Biedrins and Ellis “core” players in Monty’s last season. Ellis was a raw rookie, and Monty was slow to recognize Biedrins’ development.

by Ronaldinho on Sep 21, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

in his summer interview

Biedrins talks about coaches a little bit -and he mentions “there are some college coaches who want to coach NBA team but no NBA player really respect them” when he was asked to for example -he said “for example Montgomery”

respect means a lot -even if numbers aren’t able to show it

Over The Line!

by Lat We N Trash on Sep 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s pretty simple really:

Smart would be an adequate coach for this season.
Nelson is a lame duck.
Nelson is a contributer of past & present turmoil & drama for the Warriors – something they’re trying to break from. I could just imagine him playing mind games with David Lee.
He puts his ego before the team.
In over 1000 games, he’s never won a championship.
He played Maggette @ PF, nuff said.
He has been the source of too many player problems (many recent), players wanting to be traded (and traded for trash), or removed. I’ll list ’em again:

Webber, Baron, Mullin the GM, S. Jackson, Anthony Randolph, Harrington, J.Crawford, Biedrins, M. Ellis, etc.

Bottom line – the risk is greater than the reward, cons outweigh the pros.

by RowellMustGo on Sep 21, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions  

you're right, it's simple

that’s why the Warriors did so well between Nellie eras.

by geraldmcgrew on Sep 21, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

totally

They should just hire a coach who always gets into the playoffs (Adleman) or an up and comer with family history in the league (Musselman) or a proven college commodity (Montgomery).
Since there aren’t any HOF coaches available, I’ll settle for the best guy not in yet.

by Uwe Blog on Sep 22, 2010 12:02 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I can agree with this blog...

I wouldn’t go all the way as to making him the GM. But he recognizes talent in guards particularly well. A Consultant of some sort would be perfect and the Godfather really would be the perfect title.

by ntfarell on Sep 22, 2010 1:40 PM PDT reply actions  

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