SB Nation Bay Area Editor's Pick
Looking at Synergy: How to Best Use Our Players
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 2, 2010 10:59 PM PDT
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PrintI just recently signed up for Synergy Sports. I am very happy with the investment (only 30$, i've spent 30 bucks on much worse than this). I looked up most of the players I am interested in, to see how they rate defensively, and etc. I noticed many of our players have specific strengths and weaknesses on offense and defense.
PG: Stephen Curry
Offense:
It appears Curry's strengths on offense are spotting up (ranked 2nd in the entire league in this category), and playing the pick and roll. He is weak in transition but I am expecting this to improve with some experience. I think we should make an effort to run some plays off screens for Curry because he is such a great shooter, we need to take advantage of it-as much as we can.
Defense:
Curry's defense last year was pretty good according to Synergy. He doesn't get beat in isolations, he holds his own on the pick and rolls, and surprisingly doesn't get pushed around in the post. He's great at forcing turnovers, but Curry must cut down on the fouls. They are alarmingly high for a guard.
Offense:
Charlie Bell is a limited offensive player. He can't do much other than spot up for a J. He's a good jumpshooter, so there is some hope he can fill a niche on offense and simply hit the 3. In the corners, Bell hit over 40% on his 3 in a 100 shot sample. The year before he hit around 43% in the corners in a 110 shot sample. I think it is fair to say Bell is a good shooter in the corner. Bell's defensive contributions can be very positive (I'll get to that in a moment), so if he can just stand in the corner and shoot 3's he could be a very effective player for our team.
Defense:
Bell is a good defensive player. He can guard players in the isolation very well, and he can fight through screens well. He has problems with post up defense, but that's expected with someone of his frame (around 6'3). He would be our best defensive option on the perimeter unless Dorell Wright makes some nice improvements.
SG: Monta Ellis
Offense:
Monta struggled on offense this year, it's been argued at ad-naseum. We know he didn't do too well overall. He isn't an effective option in the isolation, and that was his main role this year. It would be best if he moved back to an off-ball role, where he still played well in this season. He is at his best in transition, coming off screens, spotting up, cutting, and receiving handoffs. He excelled posting up on offense last season. He averaged 1.08 PPP in that situation last year, good for 14th in the league. My suggestion to Don Nelson is to have Monta post up more, crash the boards, and cut off ball for his main source of offense outside of the obvious transition game. I can't stress this enough: Do not put him in the isolation!
Defense:
Monta struggles defensively. He doesn't stop penetration overall. His only value as a defender is a knack for deflections and steals. He needs to take advantage of this skill as much as possible considering his inability to stop his man otherwise.
Offense:
Reggie Williams is an excellent offensive player. Repeat again with me. Reggie Williams is an excellent offensive player. He can score in the iso half court situations (Iso's i hope coaches stop using so frequently), He plays well in the pick and roll, he can shoot, and can score in multiple ways. I hope we let him do some damage and limit Monta's time.
Defense:
Reggie Williams has not played defense well in his NBA career so far. He couldn't stop isolation penetration or any other type of offense outside of the pick and roll. I'm not worried. He has good quickness, great length, played out of position, and was a rookie. This isn't too alarming with these factors and the small sample size.
SF: Dorell Wright
Offense:
Dorell Wright brings numerous attributes to our team that we haven't had in a long time. A solid 2 way player, who doesn't demand the ball, and is a quiet guy. On offense, it appears he can't create for himself yet at this point in time. However he fits our team needs on offense very well. He spots up well, and often. We need that with various ball dominant players in our starting lineup. He crashes the boards Lebron-like and gets alot of chump change down there. He cuts off ball very well, and seeing Curry's willingness to pass the ball, i'm sure the two will work well together. As a running team, it is nice to see us have one of the best in the league at finishing in transition.
Defense:
Dorell's defensive performance last year was disapointing. He has the length, athleticism, and drive to be a very good defender. He didn't put it all together last season, as he was manipulated in the Isolations. However, he is only 24, and given his impressive skills, i see a major improvement coming soon. Also, he could be a very good small ball 4. His post up defense is very good for a small forward.
Offense:
Our newest Warrior is a limited offensive player. He's limited to being a standstill shooter, and running the break on offense. Not bad as your 4th wing.
Defense:
The positive about the Carney signing is he can play some good individual defense. His overall numbers aren't good, but when you take out the team defense portion (spot up, which is looking to be pretty flukey), his isolation and pick and roll defense are very nice. We may have just acquired another solid defensive player to add to the perimeter. I'm happy with the signing.
PF: David Lee
Offense:
Lee's a very good offensive player. Versatile in his scoring ways, can pass great for a big, and crashs the boards well. Probably the best power forward in the league at running the pick and roll. We should run the pick and roll as much as we can with Lee. It'll help Curry as it plays to his strengths and it'll benefit the team.
Defense:
Lee has a reputation as a horrible defender. I can't say this is true when he plays his more natural position, but playing center was not the right fit on defense for him. He can guard the isolations well, but he can't play tough post up defense against guys much taller and bigger than him. After watching some clips, he definitely puts effort in on defense, and with a better fit alongside Biedrins i think Lee will play more like an average defender, rather than a poor one.
Offense:
Biedrins had a rough year. He was injured, and never really felt confident on the court. These number's don't honestly mean much either way but I thought i'd post them for your own discretion.
Defense:
Not much to see here. Athletic defender, doesn't get beat in isolations or on the pick and roll. Average post up defense. Meh, he was hurt.
Overall, this is a group of players with an interesting mix of strengths and weaknesses offensively and defensively. If Don Nelson remains coach, i'd hope he'd use these players pretty creatively and to their strengths, as his reputation is of a creative offensive wizard! Lets hope these players gel together, and dammit I just want this season to start already!
Note: Players who weren't in NBA or did not play last year were not included. Did not have information on these players.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I hope this team can be as good as the 2006-2008 teams , there are some similar parts
A alpha dog PG, a slashing SG, a swiss army knife SF (but a huge question mark) and questionable big deph (Just Lee , Beans and BW since Udoh will be out a while and we lack a true backup center). Throw in Reggie as our 6th man and we look decent.
Also Carney to me can maybe be Barnes 2.0 with more hops. They sound similar
" Only build on positives , don't stack the negatives...Instead of criticizing , what was a positive?" - Donavin Darius
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"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Thanks for sharing
Pretty informative. What is PPP anyway?
"the world is not your trade machine" - wallywagon11
by Doctor Kajita on Sep 2, 2010 11:18 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Points Per Possession.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 2, 2010 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions
That was a main point in doing this. But it’s much better when you can watch the plays itself.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 2, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I forget.
Is .90 PPP considered “average” on both offense and defense?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
It depends, defensively thats about average or above average.
Offensively thats below average. But it really depends, you need to take in account many things.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 3, 2010 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Can you elaborate?
What needs to be taken into account?
"the world is not your trade machine" - wallywagon11
by Doctor Kajita on Sep 3, 2010 7:48 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well there are certain area’s like spot up for both sides that can sway the results if you are simply a spot up shooter, or your team plays good or bad team defense the spot up on defense can sway things.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 3, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Some musings:
Some ranges for Overall Offensive PPP: <.80 is awful; .81-.89 is ok (a big range, it probably goes from bad to ok); .90-.95 is good; .96-.99 is great; 1.00+ is elite. This varies within the data somewhat. For example, average Transition and Cut PPPs are going to be much higher than the other categories, and Spot-Up is higher on average than every non-Transition/Cut situation. P&R Ball Handler and Isolation seem to be a bit lower on average, so adjust expectations accordingly.
For defense. 1.00+ is horrid; .96-.99 is bad; .95-.93 is average, .92-.89 is good, .88-.86 is great, .85> is elite (based on perimeter players, bigs are going to have lower Spot Up numbers, so their overalls tend to be lower, probably adjust downward by about 4-5 points, so elite becomes under .81ish). Same logic applies to individual situations, though. Spot Up is going to be high (except for bigs, usually), Iso and P&R are going to be really low (like sub .75ish for elite defenders). Post Up varies. The things you want to focus on, more so than overall PPP, are Isolation, P&R BH and Off-Screen for perimeter players and Isolation P&R Roll Man and Post-Up for bigs. Also, foul rates and turnover rates are important. Durant and Wade, for example, keep their PPPs down by forcing a ton of turnovers, other guys (like Lebron) rely more on position defense to keep the score% down.
by Spider Jerusalem on Sep 3, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I need to bookmark this to my brain.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Rec'd!
way to share the resources Governor!!
this is a lot to digest…I’ll be back
(haha, because, Arnold said it..and he is our actual governor…)
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
also
you wrap it up pretty quickly at the end of your post…what are some of your conclusions?
You have obviously done some research here, can you propose any hypotheses?
How’s it looking next year?
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 3, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
We should run Curry out there as our main ball handler and shooter.
Bell should guard the best perimeter defender when he’s in the game.
Monta shouldn’t be handling the ball, he should be posting up and crashing the boards.
Let Reggie go to work. He’s amazing on offense.
Dorell should be an excellent off ball player. Don’t expect him to get his own points however.
Carney is out there to shoot and defend.
Lee should have the ball as often as possible.
Biedrins should play off ball as well.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 3, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Monta should be posting up?
o.O That’s insane. He has a good rating there, but he had just 71 opportunities there which is less than 4 percent of his total opportunities. Usually, if an offensive player does something a defense doesn’t expect, it catches them off guard. It’s nice to see that he might go there, but going there regularly would just disrupt the offense. He’s a 6’3" slashing guard, without much size. He doesn’t belong in the post.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
In addition, it might not even be about catching them off guard, it might be because he only goes into the post when he has a favorable matchup…
by Missing Barry on Sep 5, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think that if he increased it's usage
it could be effective. I don’t think it should be his primary offense (the fastbreak should) but it’s better use of his touches than isolations or him creating off the dribble.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 5, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Monta in the post...
is a disaster waiting to happen. I’m glad that’s the last thing that Nelson will ever think of. He doesn’t even think about big men in the post. Like Missing Barry said too, the matchups, there aren’t many SGs that he can post up. Lou Williams? Idk if there’s anyone else.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Kobe
PGs who post include Andre Miller and Chauncey. They’re usually beefier guys.
Carmelo Shmarmelo
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 6, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Monta can post up Kobe?
I was talking about guys he could actually score on down there. I don’t think Kobe is one of them. He’s a lot bigger than Monta.
I think you misunderstood, though.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Oh sorry
Yeah, I misread. I thought you said SGs that can post up, not SGs Monta can post up.
Carmelo Shmarmelo
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 6, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Ben Gordon?
haha
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 7, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL.
He probably could, but they’ve got Stuckey for guards who want to post up. There might be like 3 teams in the NBA where that could have a PG and SG small enough/ bad enough defensively for Monta to post up either of them up.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
I think Monta can post up any normal sized 2. I was watching the video of his post up's and his foot work is nice, and his quickness allows him open looks.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 7, 2010 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
You're crazy then, man.
Monta is not someone that would be consistently effective inside. Explain to me what moves he has in the post?
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Monta IS a good and creative finisher.
But never have i seen him do a solid job over the course of a game in the post. Catch and lay the ball up, catch and shoot, dribble drive have all been where he gets his points from. Post? Lol. Smh. Good try though.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Well you don’t have synergy so you’re probably just going off of a misconception that small size = bad post up player.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 11, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
You have and you're still sorta...
DEDEDE. Having synergy doesn’t make your understanding of the game any better. Show me a game where Monta actually consistently went to the post. Show me. SHOOOOOOWWWWWW MEEEE.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
I think Monta can post up any normal sized 2. I was watching the video of his post up's and his foot work is nice, and his quickness allows him open looks.
I'm baaaaaack!!!! Did anyone miss me?
Don't lie, you know life just wasn't as entertaining without me.
by Sir Charles (Fresh for 2011) on Sep 7, 2010 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Why exactly are you copying Gov?
Only way I can read this right now is that you are trolling on him.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
Re: Why exactly are you copying Gov?
What’s good for the Gov, is good for the gander.
Regardless, I agree with his assessment. Monta looked to be pretty good at scoring in the post last year. He just needs to get better at creating for others from that position (and numerous other positions).
Hey Gov, are most of his scores from that position him spinning around his man towards the basket or taking jump shots? I’m guessing he’s not backing his man down under the hoop for a standing power dunk.
I’m asking because the size-disparity only makes a difference if Monta was trying to back the guy down under the hoop.
play like a 1 man guy
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 8, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Based off the video i've seen.
He tends to back down pretty well for a guy his size, but usually spinning and shooting a banker or a layup. On occasion i saw fadeaway jumpers.
What’s good for the Gov, is good for the gander.
So i’m the goose? I don’t even get it but that’s expected probably.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 8, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Re: So i’m the goose?
Sorry i wasn’t more clear. It’s like this:
^^^^ is goose, you’re the Gov and monta da boss.
He tends to back down pretty well for a guy his size, but usually spinning and shooting a banker or a layup.
Thanks. This is what I remember. Don’t you think the fact that he used the spin move so often basically negates the height, size disadvantage?
Too bad you don’t have the prior seasons, I’m curious about Baron’s effectiveness in the post. My memory tells me that he was most effective passing from that spot and not so great at finishing if he got into the paint with his back to the basket.
My point? Baron was big, Monta was small but my memory tells me that Monta was better at scoring in the post.
The arguments about a given player being too short or skinny to be good at x, y or z are the second most infuriating arguments made this site.
play like a 1 man guy
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 8, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
So you’re comparing me to SirCharles? Thanks! That’s just great.
And I agree with you on the Baron issue. He was good at finding players in the post but it usually led to a fadeaway shot to no avail. Monta seems to have a natural knack for scoring when posting but he becomes a black hole (if he isn’t already).
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 8, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
The arguments about a given player being too short or skinny to be good at x, y or z are the second most infuriating arguments made this site.
Is first place “no homo”?
There will be no extra point!
Sadly, “no homo” finds itself in 5th place, behind such rhetorical a-bombs as “nuff sed” and “have you ever even played basketball?”.
This ranking is largely do to its primary utilization as a preemptive deterrent in the “I’m not gay / yes you are” cold war rather than as an actual mid-discussion non-point.
play like a 1 man guy
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 8, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Is first place "no homo"?
I don’t think that’s an argument? More like a informational statement?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 9, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions
True.
I don’t want him to increase his touches in the post. He’s definitely his most effective as an off ball/off screen slasher. Let him get a clear step into the lane. I don’t know if he can hit off screens, but his mid range wing jumper has always been pretty good (takes it too much sometimes). Like to see us try him out as a rip hamilton type player. with his speed and endurance, it could work. just don’t know if he’d be an effective catch and shoot player.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Shouldn't
Monta be getting out on the break instead of crashing the boards?
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No no, i meant offensive boards.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 5, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm...
pretty sound analysis, Gov
I think that Nelson (if he is in fact going to be our coach this season) will mostly follow your advice.
I just hope that he can trust our new guys enough to let them play to their strengths
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 5, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Gov, what about Dan Gadzuric?
I know a lot of people are already writing him off as our 12th man, expiring contract, “we need to get another C” but maybe this guy can be our primary backup C? I don’t know.
"the world is not your trade machine" - wallywagon11
If we can snag Amundson, I think we’re pretty much good to go at the 4/5.
PF: Lee 28 / BWright 14 / Amundson 4
C: Biedrins 28 / Lee 8 / Amundson 6 / Gadzuric 6
Or something. Udoh upon his return will take Gadz’s minutes — and maybe eventually some of Amundson’s or Wright’s, depending on how well they all perform.
Clearly, we should always be on the lookout for a major move for a legit starting-caliber C (Oden or M. Gasol, e.g.) but I don’t see much need on this roster another generic big body in the Chris Hunter mold.
p.s. splendid diary, Gov’nah.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 3, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Rec'd Gov Thanks for this informative post.
This has been one of our better days for posts. Somehow I missed the Carney addition.
by Only In Fairfax on Sep 3, 2010 10:41 AM PDT reply actions
Do NBA coaches use these stats to prepare game plans?
I know baseball managers have all kinds of statistics for every situation.
Hard to say...
Synergy has a professional service for teams and media which is probably pretty pricey with even more information. You’d have to guess that most teams subscribe to this or a similar service, but as to whether they actually use the info constructively… maybe some of them. If I had to guess I’d say it was more likely that they have a ‘stat-guy’ that gives the head coach some bullet points when they prepare the pregame meeting.
I remember in the book Seven Seconds or Less they described how the coaching staff would fill up the white boards with all kinds of little tidbits about player tendencies, overall strategies, and situations to focus on. The impression he gave in the book was that because of the daily grind of the NBA season much of this information was more or less ignored by the players. This could be because they already know most of this stuff from playing experience, or because they just don’t have the mental energy to process all of that before a game, maybe an attitude problem for some (Amare was painted as a pretty immature guy, and Marion was described as insecure).
It’s really hard to say how valuable this kind of information is for the actual players. Some seem to embrace it (Battier is the most well known example of someone who studies tendencies and %‘s) but many more just don’t approach the game like that. It would be fun to have access to a few franchises to study how they choose to use statistics from the front office, to the coaches, to the players.
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
this is very much true
The impression he gave in the book was that because of the daily grind of the NBA season much of this information was more or less ignored by the players
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
hey, anyone else hav'n hard time read'n them there charts?
"It’s frickin’ Sisyphean to be a Warriors Fan."
by hardcore on Sep 3, 2010 7:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Click on it and you should be fine.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 3, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
ya, i knew that, thanks, I was just trying to insert levity with my – uh, twin likeness here
"It’s frickin’ Sisyphean to be a Warriors Fan."
The rally monkey sure got old quick.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
The Rally Miggy was 100x worse.
play like a 1 man guy
by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 5, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll get back to you on that.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 7, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Overall .94 PPP around 300th in league. However around 100th overall in ISO, cut, P&R ball handler, and post up.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 7, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
how consistent are PPP stats from year-to-year?
when you sign up for Synergy, do you have access to previous seasons, too?
No, that kinda angers me.
"Everybody loves Basketball-Reference.com. Except the Kobe fans".- DubsFan408
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 7, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
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