Trade Rumor: Monta for Iguodala?
by laflyhalf on Sep 29, 2010 2:50 PM PDT
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Is there a mistake in this article? Have there really been talks about bringing in Andre Iguodala? Would Philly really part with him for Monta and some other pieces? A backcourt of Curry and Iguodala would be a much nicer combination, in my opinion, than Curry and Ellis. Iguodala would bring better size (a true 2/3), much better perimeter defense, nice scoring / facilitating on offense, a better locker room presence...etc. I just haven't heard anything else about this, but I would love it to be true.
The story reads:
"Rumor central: General manager Larry Riley dismissed reports that the Warriors would trade Stephen Curry in a deal to get Carmelo Anthony from Denver, but the idea of grabbing Andre Iguodala from Philadelphia hasn't gone away.
Asked directly about the Curry-Anthony deal, Riley said: "I don't address trades, but Steph Curry is here for the long haul. He is a long-term Golden State Warrior."
Curry didn't seem too upset about the rumors, but he did perk up about the idea of playing with Iguodala. The Sixers' wing was the stopper on Curry's U.S. team that won gold in Istanbul.
"He is the best lockup, one-on-one defender I've seen in a long time," Curry said. "He took the challenge every game of guarding the best guy and shutting him down. He really put us in position to control every game. Any team would be better with him on its roster.""
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I’d rather keep Monta because of him already knowing guys, and also the fact that when he is good and playing within his game, he is one of the best 2 guards in the league. We also already have D. Wright, who could break out and be the perfect small forward for this team, and Reggie Williams. I’d rather just wait and see how this team performs before making a move for a guy like Iggy, who I really like, but who makes a lot of money and probably isn’t quite as good as we sometimes think.
I’d rather keep Monta because of him already knowing guys, and also the fact that when he is good and playing within his game, he is one of the best 2 guards in the league
I’d rather just wait and see how this team performs before making a move for a guy like Iggy, who I really like, but who makes a lot of money and probably isn’t quite as good as we sometimes think.
I have a hard time seeing Monta being better than Iggy.
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
by wallywagon11 on Sep 29, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I have a hard time seeing Monta being better than Iggy.
or bigger?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 29, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
You honestly think (a) Monta has more or equal trade value as Iggy and/or (b) Monta is equal or better than Iggy?
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
by wallywagon11 on Sep 29, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
IF we were talking about Monta for Igoudala straight up, that'd be one thing.
But a lot depends on what those “other pieces” are.
by Ronaldinho on Sep 29, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's what I'm worried about
The scary scenario is not having to give up anyone else off our roster, but more likely Iggy is the bait on a rusty barbed hook named Elton Brand. If we had to take on his contract it would totally sabotage the currently good chance we have of making a big move mid season with our 2 expirings.
Cut.
by Butterknuckles on Sep 29, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
really?
i believe that we all overlook a talent that monta has that is imperative to the warriors current style of play:
monta ellis is the fastest player in the game. period.
the kid can score like crazy. and he’s trying his hardest to become an integral part of the team for the first time in his career. He’s got his head in the game for the first time since 07-08.
there are gonna be good things outta this kid. hes young has so much room to still grow. The bond he’s creating with curry is the first step toward the comradeship and chemistry this team has lacked for three years.
keep monta, ride out his contract. we need his points and his new attitude. and having 22 + ppg outta this kid never hurts.
by dubious dubz on Sep 30, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I would say someone like Kevin Durant can score like crazy. Monta? Even good Monta (‘07-08 Monta) didn’t really score among the very best in the league…..
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
monta ellis is the fastest player in the game. period.
I’m pretty sure that Devin Harris has this record.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
keep monta, ride out his contract. we need his points and his new attitude. and having 22 + ppg outta this kid never hurts.
Disagree with this. It hurt last year. His scoring came at the expense of more efficient options, which lowers the efficiency of the team. That’s a bad thing.
Also- who cares about chemistry if you don’t have someone that can guard shooting guards?
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, there are a lot of fast dudes in the NBA. Figuring out which one is the fastest is….tough.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Very
I’m pretty sure that Harris has the end to end record.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking..
…Iguodala would play primarily at the 2, not 3.
The Bimbo Coles era has BEGUN!!!
Give us Iggy for Monta anytime,anyday.
Not a Monta hater but no one would give us Iggy for Monta straight up. So the question is ,what would be included in the +.
by Only In Fairfax on Sep 29, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
he is one of the best 2 guards in the league
Now, regardless of whether or not this is true, the thing is…..Iguodala (who hates being called “Iggy”) is better than Monta.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
this is not really a rumor
this was a question asked by a reporter, and some pretty wild leaps of logic to connect with what Steph said when asked about Iggy…
Sure, we’d all love to get Iggy on this team, but I honestly don’t see them wanting to trade him for Monta (after all, the only reason that they might want to unload Iggy at all is becuase they have another player set to play the same position (Evan Turner))
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
after all, the only reason that they might want to unload Iggy at all is becuase they have another player set to play the same position (Evan Turner)
And what’s funny is how they already have someone pretty similar to Monta set to play his position, so essentially they’d be swapping for a worse player just to get themselves right back in the same situation of having two very similar guys at the same position.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Are we talking about Louis Williams?
Always thought he was Monta-lite.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
yup
and unless somebody goes crazy in the 76ers front office, this is just not a viable trade for them…
However, let’s say Monta has a great year, and Iggy does not, maybe we could re-visit this next year
Still, we may as well be talking about Monta for KDurant…NOT going to happen
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
My editorializing.
I just figured it made the most sense. Plus he’s rumored to have been shopped around.
The Bimbo Coles era has BEGUN!!!
Maybe
there is a way to bring in Iggy without parting with Monta. Maybe reggie williams, others plus picks or something like that. a lineup of steph, monta, iguodala, dlee, and andris looks pretty damn good. we would be competing in the west for a long time
by waitillnextyear14 on Sep 29, 2010 3:07 PM PDT reply actions
I love Iggy...
Don’t see us getting him though lol
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
the only way to get Iggy
Would be to take Brand too. It would be nice to have a 18/6/5 guy at the 2-3. Especially one who plays his level of defense. I think we’d know who guards Kobe.
by Uwe Blog on Sep 29, 2010 4:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Maybe this would work
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23y9sly
Our starting 5:
Curry
Iggy
D. Wright
Lee
Brand
Our Bench:
Amundson
Bell
Lin
Carney
Radmanovic
Udoh
Gadzuric
Pretty awful bench but I love the starting 5
Sixers starting 5:
Holiday/Lou Williams
Ellis
Turner
Speights
Biedrins
They’ll have the same bench +Reggie Williams and B. Wright
I can def see this happening if the Warriors wanna make another huge move, the main problem is that Brand and Lee are pretty much identical in size and build so we wouldn’t have a legit C
The alternative would I guess be swapping Biedrins for Gadzuric or Radmonavic and use one of our trade exceptions, which would be awesome for the Warriors
Curry
Iggy
d. Wright
Lee
Biedrins
6th man: Brand
but the sixers might not buy it, we’d probably need to include some second rounders cuz we already can’t trade 1st rounders
Pretty awful bench but I love the starting 5
How can you love a starting 5 that features the shriveled up shell of Elton Brand at center? Just say NO to one of the three worst contracts in the NBA.
The alternative team is obviously far preferable, though it still kinda sucks if you’re seriously proposing Brand as our “6th man.” Personally, I’d offer Monta + expirings, period. No Biedrins, no BWright. If the Sixers don’t bite, so what? Let them not bite. No one’s forcing us to trade Monta. He’s not as good as Iggy, but he’s younger and cheaper; plus he’s healthy, super-energized, and saying and doing all the right things in camp. Trade from a position of strength, or don’t trade at all.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 29, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How can you love a starting 5 that features the shriveled up shell of Elton Brand at center?
I LOL’d.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25xcfvw
We give them Monta and cap relief for Iguodala and the bloated corpse of Elton Brand.
Our starting lineup:
Curry, Iguodala, D. Wright, Lee, Biedrins
Bench: Carney, Amundson, Lin, R. Williams, Brand, Bell
That’s a playoff team, even in the west.
The problem is, in 2011-12
Brand – 17 mil
Iguodala – 13.5 mil
Lee – 11.6 mil
Biedrins -9 mil
In 12-13
Brand – 18.2 mil
Iguodala – 14.7 mil
Lee – 12.7 mil
Biedrins -9 mil
ugh…
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
But oh man...
That starting line-up is killer…
Two athletic, defensive minded wings forcing guys to miss shots with two of the best rebounding bigs underneath grabbing boards. Tons of turnovers forced. Iguodala throwing down on breaks. Curry nailing threes. Lee in the post. Lee and Curry pick n rolling teams to death. Occasional kick out to Wright in the corner…
(wipes drool off keyboard)
I would do that, and hope the new CBA gives teams a one time amnesty to waive a player like it did last time (see: Dallas and Michael Finley)
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
Iggy > Monta but how much better?
If Warriors need to take on Brand’s contract then I really don’t think Iggy is worth it. Not a knock against Iggy, it’s more of a knock on Brand.
If the Sixers are smart, they’ll make the trade combo of Brand & Iggy unbreakable. I’m sure somebody will want Iggy badly enough to just absorb Brand’s contract.
Brand is bad indeed
Especially with the new CBA.
how much better?
Iggy is today one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, he is very strong and can’t be bullied like Monta, he’s a superb rebounder, and it’s not like Monta shoots any better than Iggy. Also, he is probably the best complement out there for Stephen Curry, for he is the only one that can provide excellent defense, adequate size, scoring when necessary, but without taking the spotlight off of Curry.
Also, Brand does have a horrible contract, no doubt, but what about Biedrins? Biedrins is owed $36 million for the next 4 years and Brand’s contract, while worth more, expires in 3 years. There’s just as good a chance Brand rediscovers his old self or becomes a solid veteran presence as there is Biedrins becoming a double-double machine for the next 10 years.
Also, Brand does have a horrible contract, no doubt, but what about Biedrins
Ummm … Biedrins doesn’t? Your comparison is comically misguided. Brand isn’t just making “more” than Biedrins — he’s making almost twice what AB makes. Let’s see:
4/$36M for the age 24-27 years of a 6’11" fast, athletic C who averages 12 boards per 36 and around 60% ts
— or —
3/$51M for the age 32-34 years of a 6’8" slow, broken down PF who averages 8 boards per 36 and around 50% ts
Hmm.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 29, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Iggy is a good player.
I agree with a lot of your points concerning Iggy. However, you’re not going to get much from Brand. So you really need to add Brand’s contract to Iggy & determine if Iggy is worth it.
Iggy = Iggy’s contract + Brand’s contract …. Because Brand himself won’t give you much & nobody will take this guy off the Warriors unless Curry or maybe Lee is also included in the deal.
Biedrins is NOT a franchise center & I’m assuming we can all agree on this one point. However, if you look at salary vs. production, Biedrins is actually a really good deal. In today’s NBA, the center position is very shallow.
On our current team, Brand would be no better than the fifth big man.
He would see minutes behind Lee, Biedrins, Wright, and Amundson.
And that’s assuming, at this point in his career, that he’s an upgrade over Gadzuric.
I doubt he’s that bad. When he played last year, he played reasonably well. Not like the old Brand but not a bad player. He would play ahead of Amundson and considering Biedrins and Wright not recovered 100%, probably play ahead of them for who knows how long.
The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.
He was pretty bad when he played last year. Old and slow and provided no defense, and offensively he clogs up the lane, hurts spacing, kills ball movement, all while scoring under 16 points per 36 on inefficient shooting and not doing much to create for teammates. That’s not a pretty not good player.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2010 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Compared to what he used to be, he was crap. But his +/- was okay, and he put up some stats.
The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.
and he put up some stats.
He put up lousy stats. You have to be delusional to think otherwise.His rebounding was awful and he was a low efficiency scorer, who shot just enough to be a problem. The trends on his statistics have been downing for a while too. He’s horrid now and there’s every reason to think that he’ll get worse.
by jae on Oct 1, 2010 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I did go back and look at his stats. Pretty bad. That said, he had some good games last year, which for some reason, I remembered better than his overall season. Sucks for the Sixers, unless a miracle occurs, and he turns it around.
The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.
Yeah, but it's scary to think he's probably their best big man.
Their big men are worse than the Maggette-Tolliver-Hunter trio we were using at the end of the season. I mean Rod Thorn has just shredded this team to pieces.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Oct 1, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
It's hard to understand why they dumped Dalembert for penuts.
They may not have loved him, but wow, he was better than what they have left.
But it's also
they traded him and his reasonable expiring contract for 2 horrible players.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Oct 2, 2010 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions
You have done a horrible job as GM when you construct a frontcourt in the offseason thats worse than the Warriors d league frontcourt.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Oct 2, 2010 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions
One of the reasons I think is that they aren’t good, they’re building for the future, and Dalembert obviously doesn’t fit into that. They also have a young guy they want to give a much bigger role to (Speights). That said, they should have done a whole lot better than they did. Given the deal they made, they would have been better off just letting his contract expire….
by Missing Barry on Oct 2, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Speights. We’ll see if he can take a step forward this year with an increased role.
by Missing Barry on Oct 2, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Don’t feel bad for the Sixers. With their fan support, they deserve to suck.
by Missing Barry on Oct 2, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not that I feel bad for the Sixers -
- it’s that the addition of Dalembert has the potential to make the Kings a lot better, and that hurts us.
yes, Beans is not a franchise center
but like you say, he’s a good deal for what you get
kind of like the In-n-out burger of the NBA?
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
shriveled up shell?? bloated corpse?? lmao .. poor elton..
i dont want him here.. and as Sleepy said .. “we trade from a position of strength or dont trade at all.”
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Sep 29, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe this would work
umm…no. No it wouldn’t
you just traded away most of our team to get Iggy and Brand
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Monta is better than Iguodala.
I don’t even understand why everyone considers Iggy to be that good. He does not do anything particularly well. He is not a go-to scorer, he is not a shutdown defender, his shooting sucks, his TO rate is high as well. Why would we want him?
Iguodala is most certainly a shut down defender, and he is an above average rebounder for his position. He might not be a go-to scorer, but he can definitely get the ball in the hoop (career TS% of .560). His shooting is average, he’s an excellent passer, an decent ball handler, his TO rate is definitely good a guy with this usage.
Oh, and Iguodala is much better than Ellis, and a much better fit on this team.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
last season
Their FG% was almost the same.
Monta was slightly better at the 3pt line and fts.
Iggy rebounds 1.5 times as much, almost one full TO less per game. Plus a better defender.
Monta got himself some sprangs too!
I can see the point about defense, but Monta is just as much of a threat on offense as Iggy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22YvcnVhOAE
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG_jjK65QyE&feature=related
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
If Monta returns to being the efficient scorer he used to be, he’ll be a better scorer than Iguodala. Iguodala’s by far better at creating for his teammates, though, and then when you throw in the defense and rebounding, there’s really no comparison.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
He is not a go-to scorer, he is not a shutdown defender, his shooting sucks, his TO rate is high as well.
Monta: not a go-to scorer, is a defensive sieve, his shooting sucks, his TO rate is awful
What Iguodala provides: excellent defense. He really is on the shortlist of top perimeter defenders in the NBA. Great wing passing. Great wing rebounding. He isn’t much of a scorer, but he can get you a few a game. That’s the only area that Monta is better in. Everywhere else comes up Iguodala and it isn’t all that close.
We’d want him because he actually fits really well with the team as designed and gives us a lot of what we need.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 29, 2010 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions
He actually fits really well with the team as designed
True that. It’s very cool to realize that the team is actually designed. (This is Riley’s team – what a weird thing to say.) Iguodala would fit it very very well – one of the few players out there and potentially available who would be worth giving up Monta for. Short of this particular trade idea (and expirings only in addition) I’m pretty interested in what this team will do.
Baseball is a chamber orchestra. Football is a marching band. Basketball is a modern quintet. jazz, rock, hiphop, pop/ all about the beat./ still my revolution not/ til you dance through it.
by Rasputin10 on Sep 30, 2010 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He actually fits really well with the team as designed
Rec’d ,could not agree with you more.
by Only In Fairfax on Sep 30, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I would love to have Iggy.
But with Iggy, Beans, and Lee, would we have enough money to sign Curry past his rookie contract?
The San Fransisco 49ers, where we got Dix, VD and Crabs!
Depends on the new CBA...
His rookie deal extends 2 years past it. We really don’t know what would be required to pay him. If it remained similar to what we have now, we could go deep into the luxury cap to sign him.
One thing I’m really hope not to see from the new CBA: a more “free” free-agency period, where players can go pretty much wherever they want. I like the idea of making it easier to build from within.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Hard Salary Cap?
Sten publicly stated (after giving fine to Washington owner for his initial comments) hard salary cap is on the table from owner’s side. Hard salary cap would make the Brand+Iggy move devastating.
Warriors would improve in the short-run but the ceiling would be in place for continued progress (as far as adding talent/depth) until Brand is gone.
As long as there’s not a hard cap, I would think so.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
and let's not forget that our new owner is not planning to go over the cap
unless it gets us a championship-caliber team.
Not sure that replacing Monta with Iggy gets us there
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t confuse luxury tax with the cap. We’re already over the cap.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
ok, I am officially confused then
Are we really paying luxury tax this season?!
I thought there was a soft cap and once you pass it, you gotta pay luxury taxes…
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
The soft cap allows you to exceed it
by using any of the available exceptions and re-signing players.
The Luxury Tax level is $12-$13 M higher than the salary cap.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
so we used our mid-level exception?
I’m just suprised that we are salaries are so high…I guess its related to all the expiring contracts we are carrying
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
We used our MLE to sign Dorell and Amudson. We technically traded for David Lee, and abided by the trading rules for a team that’s over the cap.
Our team salaries:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm
Salary cap = $58M, luxury tax = $70M MLE = $5.8M
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
we used our MLE on Wright and Lou
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
ok, so we can still spend about $8mil more
I like how our salary situation is looking next year though!
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Oct 1, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think the Warriors should trade for Iggy if it means taking on Brand
If I am the Warriors I keep the team we have now. If Monta becomes an issue then you trade him for young players and picks. We don’t need to add an all star. We already have 2, possibly 3. We just need to build a great bench. The starting lineup we have now will get it done.
whoa, i just had some deja vu from a month ago when 49er & Raider fans were posting about how good the 49ers & Raiders are…..
must be a bay area thing.
by homer simpson on Sep 30, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
We already have 2, possibly 3.
We have 1. Curry might down the road, after Steve Nash retires and Chris Paul moves east.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 30, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
If someone like Westbrook doesn’t take over the #2 spot after Deron, that is….
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2010 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously
and there is the whole matter of Tyreke Evans in there.
It’s extremely unlikely that any of our guards, even Curry, make an all star team in the near future.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 1, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, the all star voting is done as guards, so it doesn't really matter which he is
potential future Western conference all stars:
CP3, DWill, Westbrook, Reke, Broy. That’s 5, assuming Kobe and Nash retire in the near future. Nash will probably play till he’s 48, so that’s another one.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 2, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
KEEP MONTA! AT ALL COST...
Last year or the year before ya’ll wanted Brand or Arenas AT ALL COST! NOW you want Iggy…
WHY? How many times have the 76ers gone to a championship with him??
Let the season go on with what we have, and be happy!
NOW you want Iggy…
WHY? How many times have the 76ers gone to a championship with him??
We want him for his defense, passing and rebounding.
How many times has Monta been to the championship? Heck, how many times has he led an above average team? Never.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 29, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Last year or the year before ya’ll wanted Brand or Arenas AT ALL COST! NOW you want Iggy…
I don’t think anyone wanted Arenas or Brand, there were just rumors that we might get them. And that was 2 years ago. And completely different, especially when you’re talking about two guys who are generally overrated, and have a ton of injury problems, compared to a guy who is generally underrated with no real injury history.
WHY? How many times have the 76ers gone to a championship with him??
The same number of times we’ve gone to the championships with Monta.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
well, to be fair
the Warriors did offer contracts to both of these guys
Not sure the fans, as a whole, wanted that to happen, but our FO certainly were willing to offer max contracts to both Arenas and Brand
whew, narrowly escaped!!
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
How many times have the Thunder gone to the championship with Durant?
Two choices:
1. You wouldn’t trade Monta for Durant (or LeBron, Wade, or Dwight Howard et al.)
or
2. Your “let the season go on with what we have, and be happy!” line is nothing but a meaningless catch phrase.
You pick.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 29, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Where did I “froth” for Iguodala? I didn’t write this fanpost. Like most objective basketball observers, I think Iguodala’s a better player than Monta, basically across the board: longer, better rebounder, better passer, more efficient scorer, tougher, vastly better at defense. I think the upgrade from Monta to Iguodala is worth the $2-4M escalating difference in their contracts. As I noted, I don’t think the upgrade is worth the massive downgrade from Biedrins to Elton Brand at C.
Now please stop whining and answer the question: do you admit that your “Keep Monta AT ALL COSTS” line is just a bunch of hot air, or would you actually not trade Monta for Durant, LeBron or Howard? You have a “right to your thoughts,” obviously. I also have a right to call you out when I see that you’re contradicting yourself and feeding GSoM readers a load of bull.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 29, 2010 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
this this this this this
"Once again i still dont get it. We have the best backcourt in the league. 1 of the best front courts in the West. A nice bench. What team in the west cant we compete with besides the Lakers? What team in the west u guys can look at and say damn they’re much better than us? Seriously? Not being a homer at all." ~ J-Ridah's Golden State Warriors analysis.
by wallywagon11 on Sep 30, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
"Keep Monta AT ALL COSTS"
Now that’s just crazy talk
Unless you are in the finals every year, I don’t think you keep any player “at any cost”
…if the trade vastly improves the team, you gotta do it!
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Escalating contracts
It’s worth mentioning that Monta’s flat contract is one of the things that actually make his contract so reasonable and valuable, especially with the unknown future outcomes of the forthcoming CBA. That $5M difference is going to mean a lot 3 years down the road and should definitely be considered heavily in any trade involving Monta.
by Lacob's Ladder on Sep 30, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
True
I like the flat salaries for Monta and Biedrens
Are there incentives and such?
This seems like a great way to lock up a player for a few years without breaking the bank…how come we don’t see more of this?
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Are there incentives and such?
This seems like a great way to lock up a player for a few years without breaking the bank…how come we don’t see more of this?
Escalating salaries in the NBA are often used by teams to sign a player successfully without completely obliterating the cap or heading too far into the lux tax area on an immediate basis. Paying less to a new signee initially also might help keep teams just enough under the cap to add another player. So no, it’s really not an “incentives” thing so much as adding 5% to 10% interest every year to pay off the full amount of the contract after placing an initial “down payment” of sorts. Adding signing bonuses and team options to the contract on the other hand would probably fit the “incentives” thing a little better.
by WYK on Oct 1, 2010 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Adding signing bonuses and team options to the contract on the other hand would probably fit the "incentives" thing a little better.
There are no “signing bonuses” in NBA contracts in the way that there are in MLB and NFL contracts. NFL contracts use signing bonuses as a guarantee to the player that he’ll get paid that amount at minimum given that NFL contracts are almost never guaranteed.
Performance incentives are factored in to the value against the cap if it’s likely that the player will meet those incentives and the types of incentives are limited by the CBA. Once a player hits an incentive, it counts against the cap and the same incentive will always count against the cap.
by jae on Oct 1, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are no "signing bonuses" in NBA contracts in the way that there are in MLB and NFL contracts. NFL contracts use signing bonuses as a guarantee to the player that he’ll get paid that amount at minimum given that NFL contracts are almost never guaranteed.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of front-loaded contracts and their often ridiculous starting figures (Wes Matthews’ upcoming $9.1 million salary comes to mind), but I guess the term “front-loaded” escaped me since I was posting at like 2 in the morning. Then again, I guess front-loaded deals aren’t really bonuses if the salary diminishes over the life of the contract…
Biedrins' Incentives
I remember reading that Biedrins’ contract had incentives that he wasn’t able to meet last year and therefore didn’t receive his entire salary for last year.
by Lacob's Ladder on Oct 1, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Iggy
I want him if and only if it’s without Brand and for Monta with something small thrown in.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Well with Iggy, the win/lost will be the same as without him...
Neither he or Monta or anyone else on the team except D Wright? have ever gone to a championship, and rarely to a playoff so what’s the BIG DEAL!?
Bro, you brought up the championship thing. That’s a really horrible measure of a player’s worth, especially when he hasn’t played on any especially talented teams.
Iguodala has been the best player on a couple playoff teams, for what that’s worth.
He’s clearly not meant to be a primary scorer, but he wouldn’t have to be. We have Lee and Curry. It’s not like we’d struggle to put up points without Monta.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 29, 2010 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Luke Walton has a ton of rings...maybe we should pick him up
but no, seriously, we could get him and maybe Brian Scalabrine
I bet we could get either of those guys for Monta
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
yes, Lebron and Bosh don’t have championship rings, so why all the hoopla in Miami?
KG and Ray Allen didn’t have rings before going to Boston, I wonder why that was such a big deal?
i hope the 8 stands for your age and not Monta’s #, b/c….. wow.
by homer simpson on Sep 30, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Defensively having Iggy and DWright
would take us from worst perimeter defense to potentially among best in NBA.
Little known fact
A lot of the We Believe team’s success came from having a ton of long, athletic, essentially interchangeable wings we could throw out at any time and cause our opponents fits.
Last season, we tried the same thing, only with undersized combo guards. It didn’t work out as well…
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
(Ones who also forced a crapload of turnovers)
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Pretty much.
But post defense is more important overall.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 29, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
of course
But I don’t think it’s really relative to this point. Or that, you don’t trade for Iggy because you lack good post defenders too. One trade at a time.
In an ideal world if we could snap Iggy, moving andris (or DLee) or a quality defensive big would give us an excellent starting 5 offensively and defensively. Dwight Howard would work. Or in another dream scenerio, somehow we’d sign Greg Oden and he’d never get injured again. Also reasons I like Horford/Gasol over Biedrins. There are much better defensive players to Andris and next to DLee it might be a better mix.
Then again Andris is young and a good weakside defender. He could improve his man-post defense which is what we need. DLee I don’t have as much hope for cause of his physical limitations in that regard.
A bit off topic, but anyone with a synergy account wanna give us the details on Marc’s defense?
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
In isolations he was 240th.
On post ups he was 177th. Not that good of a defender really. Too slow.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
While you’re in here, Gov: what does your Synergy™ have to say about Dorell’s D? (Specifically, I posited that he was better defensively than Danny Granger, based mostly on hearsay, and want to see whether or not I’m full of it…)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 30, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He doesn't rate that well actually.
But i’m holding out hope considering his tools, and that he did play a lot of minutes for a good team. He kinda played the role Artest did, and Wade would roam, so he did guard the other team’s best player most of the time so i could see it being down.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
and how does he compare to Granger?
I know Granger’s success on the offensive end was a surprise to Indiana. He was originally drafted as a defensive player, IIRC.
by Lacob's Ladder on Oct 1, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
He rates pretty well in Synergy.
Better than Dorell. But i don’t think that’ll be the case next season.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Oct 1, 2010 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I also have some questions about Synergy
Based on +/- numbers, it’s pretty obvious that the Griz were a better defensive team when Marc was in, probably because he protects the rim well. I think that’s something that Synergy misses, and it’s especially important when judging big men. Synergy does get 1-on-1 defense extremely well it looks like, which is very important for guards and wings.
Can you get me some defense numbers for Amir Johnson, just as an additional test case for this theory?
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
I was actually expecting more the opposite, for Marc to do better in post up situations and not as well protecting the rim. He’s not very mobile or athletic, I don’t see him as much of a help side force.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
He ranks around about 110th in isolations (.8 PPP), and 114th in post up (.84 PPP), and 37th in P&R roll man (.85 PPP). So better than Gasol.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks, I remember a while ago reading that Bargnani rated out as a good iso defender, a very good post defender and an excellent P&R defender on Synergy (You can probably confirm).
However, if we turn to basketballvalue, we’ll see this:
Bargnani On Court D Rating: 115.87
Johnson On Court D Rating: 107.92
(Raptors team D Rating 113.15, NBA avg is 107.6)
Obviously, Amir is doing something very right when it comes to team defense, and Bargnani is a sieve (well, the Raptors defense as a whole is a sieve, but Amir seems to at least partial plug it up).
Oh, and to prove Amir’s D isn’t a fluke, his DRating on/off difference:
09-10 -8.26
08-09 -8.93
07-08 -7.71
And Bargnani:
09-10 +9.10
08-09 +7.41
07-08 +2.31
I wish that Synergy would release their data going back further than just this year, and release it in a machine processable form, so that we can start to see some interesting stuff done with building individual defensive ratings.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
Yeah i was surprised by that.
However there can be SSS issues with anything, and this doesn’t really account for help side defense where Bargs is obviously horrible at. And I think they were playing him against the other teams lesser big, as Bosh took on the best one.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Also a factor: Bargnani’s rebounding is terrible. He takes the position of a big who might actually be able to rebound the ball and close out possessions.
The rebounding isn’t something that synergy would charge him with as an iso defender, but his inability to help close out a defensive stop for his team by grabbing the ball means that missed shots that teammates force wind up being continued possessions (*and often easy putbacks after an offensive rebound) more often than when he’s on the bench. What his man does may be somewhat diminished, but the penalty for missed shots by the other 4 opponents goes down when Bargs is in the game since the Raptors are that much less likely to prevent 2nd chance points.
by jae on Oct 1, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure if “post defense” is more important, but I would say “big man defense” is definitely more important – it just covers a lot more than on ball post D, the biggest being protecting the rim.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
It is much more important in the playoffs because of style of basketball played
And if you have aspirations of going past the first round. At this point, I just aspire to make the playoffs, and then roster adjustments can be made when team has ‘peaked’
Even in the playoffs, you have to be worried about LAL, ORL, SAS, and….? I’m probably missing a team or two, but in general I’m just really not seeing many threats out there….
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Boston, Miami (cmon!), Dallas (i suppose dirk isn’t a real post player), Chicago, Portland (especially if Oden is alive), possibly Utah (that’s more faith in sloan)?
I don’t really see David Lee (or biedrins) being able to man up well on any of the bigs
Who does Boston have? KG isn’t the same player he used to be, and really doesn’t operate on the post much. Perkins is hardly more of a post up threat than Biedrins. I suppose Chicago has Boozer now. Portland only has an effective post game with a healthy Oden (and even then, it’s still questionable how much of a post game Oden actually has. I’m not seeing a big threat out of Miami down low, either. Doesn’t Bosh tend to work out of the high post? I’ll throw the Rockets in their with a healthy Yao, but I honestly am ignoring Yao’s existance, I’m not sure his career is going to last much longer, much less he’s going to stay healthy.
I’m still only really worried about Orlando (who we’ll never play), LA and SAS….
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Those players operating out of the high post is almost worse for the Warriors
It was better with We Believe warriors cause a motivated Harrington was actually an overall good defender and could guard out to high post to 3 point line. David Lee will get murdered by Dirk. Think about it. If he doesn’t guard dirk to outer areas Dirk will hit jumpers all day. If DLee mans him up, Dirk will drive all day. I only use Dirk as one example but Bosh, KG and LaMarcus Aldridge are just as capable. KG may be older but he isn’t but done.
I suppose Post D might not be wrong word as many teams don’t go with that back to basket patrick ewing post game anymore.
Eh, Harrington might have been a good “fit” for some of what we were doing (lots of interchangeable guys so we could switch everything, and lots of trying to create turnovers) and some of the matchups we had, but I definitely wouldn’t call him anything close to a good defender….
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
For the most part, covering Dirk was left to Jackson and Barnes on We Believe. The strategy to stopping him was to guard him on the perimeter with smaller, quicker players. So, in the case of Dirk, I’d bet that Dorell Wright guards him for most of the time.
For the other guys, they can and will beat David Lee in the post. But Lee can keep them off the offensive boards and he is able to score on any of them.
Monta Ellis's #1 Fan!!!
Truth
But my point wasn’t on Harrington as much as specific to fact if we play Lee + Biedrins together one will HAVE to guard opposing PFs cause we cannot put either on a small forward.
Other option is going small OR Wright/Lou/Udoh showing something. Udoh would be ideally but even if he is a long term defensive PF option a la Camby (the dream scenerio) it wont happen next year
haven't checked the stats, but something tells me Lee will be able to stay in front of a driving Dirk
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The other aspect is rim protection on slashers
While Biedrins is solid at the rim, he can be outpowered by a strong slasher.
I just think combo of Biedrins/Lee is not anything defensively. We know that though…
It could be a lot worse. I’m not expecting much out of Lee, but at least Biedrins is athletic, active, and pretty good overall off the ball or away from the hoop (for a C). They also both rebound, a lot, which helps quite a bit. But yes, big man D still isn’t strong (and that’s what I was getting at initially, that big man D covers a lot of areas besides just post defense).
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
It could be worse...
We could be starting Maggete/Devean George at PF and Mikki Moore/Anthony Tolliver/Chris Hunter at center.
oye
man, last season was TOUGH!
you’re right though, that sure does sound like a worse-case scenario!!
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
If things get too bad we can have Dorell guard the 4.
He did a really good job on post up defense last year.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
According to Synergy, 35% of his offense came from the post.
He was at 1.09 PPP, good for 13th in the league (which includes low usage post up guards like Monta). He’s a good post up player.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
After watching videos of post ups,
they are usually in low post. Sometimes they’re mid range ones but thats mainly like Kobe and Dirk.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 30, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
you have to be worried about LAL, ORL, SAS, and….? I’m probably missing a team or two, but in general I’m just really not seeing many threats out there….
Well there’s also Miami, Boston,OKLA, Portland, Chicago, and Utah for starters
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 30, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Who does OKC have to post up…?
they don’t have to be posted up to worry about them, they got a little guy called durant.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 30, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe the conversation is about post defense?
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
right, but...
it is worth noting that even with Center/PF as their weakest positions, they gave the Lakers a pretty good challenge
…still lost though; but I’m just saying, not a totally insurmountable problem
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
post defense is more important overall
I disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. There are way more scoring threats off the wings than there are down low in the NBA. There really are not many very effective post-up players left in this league. The guys who are tend to be so good that you have to double team them anyway. Having a great post defender like Kendrick Perkins is nice, but having stoppers on the perimiter who can prevent dribble penetration is far more important, IMO.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Good point on the shift in team defense
Just this one transaction would provide a dramatic shift in what the starting lineup is capable of defensively. However, the Sixers aren’t stupid (at least not w/ Thorn running their ship). Just can’t see them giving up Iggy unless:
- they can also unload a bad contract (like Brand)
or
- they get even better player back
The beauty of it is
Iggy is an EXCELLENT open court player too. Offensively he slashes well, runs the court among best in NBA and probably the best passing wing behind BRoy and Lebron (depending how you define Wade) so he’s a real fit to our system.
The only system Iggy would struggle with offensively would be a slow down half court set as his jumper is really iffy outside 15 ft, and we don’t rally have to worry about that.
Philly probably wouldn't do this anyway
and until we find out how the team we have now plays, we shouldn’t make any more changes.
Danny Granger
Granger is all we want from our SF. If we could bring him without giving up Monta, something like picks, Reggie Williams or Dorell Wright and expirings (Gad/Vlad) we could compete in west.
Iggy is over rated, his offensive skills are below average for a player with his shots. In FIBA worlds he couldn’t do anything more than dunk in transition and defend. He is over paid indeed. no way Monta+ for Iguodala
Granger’s a higher volume and slightly more efficient scorer than iguodala. Iguodala is better in pretty much every other respect: better passer, rebounder and defender. Why do you think Coach K gave Iguodala the starting job on TeamUSA while mostly banishing Granger to the bench?
Further, Granger’s name hasn’t been bandied about by the mainstream press as a potential trade target.
Further, Dorell Wright is already basically all we want from our SF. He’s not as gifted a scorer as Granger, but he’s a better rebounder and defender, and roughly the same size. What’s nice about the idea pipe dream of acquiring Iguodala is that he has the passing and ballhandling skills to play the 2, which theoretically allows you to play him alongside Dorell, giving you one of the longest, most defensively imposing pairs of wings in the league. He’s probably a bit overpaid for what he provides, but so is Monta. If the opportunity presented itself, why wouldn’t we pay $2-3M a year for that kind of upgrade?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 30, 2010 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm in full agreement
Assuming Monta is the player to go (in trade scenerio) do we really need to replace him with another offense first player? Iggy might be worst scorer of the three (motna, granger, iggy) but by far best overall player. We don’t need the offense per-say with Lee and Curry.
Secondly over last 4 years Iggy has proven to be a 17 points per 36 at a true shooting percentage over .550%. That’s not bad at all, especially when you calculate in 5 assists per 36 and over 5 rebounds per 36.
Give us Iggy at the 2 and by some miracle draft Enes Kanter for down low back up and I will head to Maui.
by Only In Fairfax on Sep 30, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Kanter has knee problems
It’s not a good year for centers
" Only build on positives , don't stack the negatives...Instead of criticizing , what was a positive?" - Donavin Darius
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
yeah, Granger is just a taller version of Monta
offense, offense, offense (via volume shooting)
no thanks
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Iggy is over rated, his offensive skills are below average for a player with his shots
Below average? No way. He might not be the best scorer ever, but he’s an excellent creator for his teammates, and he still manages to score at a solid clip while doing so at above average efficiency. Nothing about his offensive game says “below average”. That’s just not an accurate take at all. Throw in excellent defense and good rebounding, and you have a very, very solid player in Iguodala. That he’s willing to take on a role where he isn’t featured in an offense that features Durant & Co. is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. It shows he’ll do what it takes to win. He’s a great team player.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
i'll take an overrated offensive player
with a career true shooting percentage of .559.
He could not fit our system any better either. Forces turnovers, best in open court, slashes to rim among best in NBA. His only real weakness is shooting outside 15 ft. Something we wouldn’t ask him to do anyway.
Thats without getting into fact he’s probably 3rd best passing wing in NBA (behind Lebron and BRoy, depending how you classify Wade too, i suppose)
I’m actually not so sure set shooting is that big of a weakness for him. His percentages are weak, but as the main option in Philly, he’s taking a lot more off the dribble and contested shots rather than open set shots….It’d be interesting to see how he could do on just good quality set shots.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Interesting
But even without being a good shooter, he’s still an excellent player. I’d be completely content with him just playing his game. We have enough shooters to not need Iguodala to be taking 3s if we got him.
Upon research
Go to hotspots:
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/
Good midrange shooter from left side in last two years and last year his 3point percentages from right are solid.
and for hoops data:
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andre%20Iguodala
At Rim: 68.5%
<10 ft: 34.7%
10-15ft: 29%
16-23ft: 39%
Eh… he’s not a real good shooter. Possibly set shooter, but then again he’s usually creator.
It’s just hard to get a feel for it without more context, you know?
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
No I getwhat you're saying
I just don’t think Iggy’s strong suit is shooting. But he does way too many other good things for it to matter. More so with Curry you got the same scoring dynamic offensively of a Monta, Curry backcourt (shooter + slasher) with infinitely better defense and a stronger passer.
I’m a big fan of Iguodala
Yeah, and I think in the right setting (shooting good quality, set jump shots) he can still do it well enough to help spread the floor and be useful (in addition to all the other good things he does), though I don’t really know and I wish we had some data on that.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
In general, I feel most NBA guards/wings
Who make a certain percentage of outside jumpers, (even low) are quality set shot players. NBA players can shoot, ever seen a shoot around?!
Pacers won't give up Granger now.
Considering they finally got themselves a (potentially) nice PG to go along w/ Granger, I’m sure the Pacers will keep them together this season to see how they work together.
I'm torn on this one
Would love to see Iggy in a dubs uniform – but would also love to keep this core together and see Monta prove the haters wrong and enjoy playing basketball again. Maybe we wait until mid-season to see if the move is necessary.
I don’t see any way this scenario works out. Barring some sort of 4 team trade or something, the Sixers and Warriors just aren’t good fits as trade partners. We can’t take on Brand, Monta is a bad fit on their team (they already have one undersized, no defense combo guard on their team), there’s no reason for them to give up Iguodala and get less in return. Salary wise to make anything match we need to include Monta or Biedrins, and there’s no reason for them to want Monta and no reason for us to give up Biedrins (since we won’t be getting a capable big back)…..the pieces just don’t fit.
+1...well said!
Not that I’m a pro analyst or anything. But I agree that as far as pipe dream trades go, Iggy for Monta will only be possible in Trade Machine, and video games.
Too bad the T-Wolves don’t really have anyone we want
Their GM is dumb, we could probably work them over in a trade to get more value than we gave up
"There's more to life than basketball. I can't play this game my whole life. I'm just trying to figure out what I like to do and meet some cool people along the way." -Chris Bosh
by Duby Dub Dubs on Sep 30, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
The surprising view from Philadelphia.
Slam online
by Doobie Okon
Over the last couple days, new rumors have sprouted that the 76ers entered into the Carmelo Anthony sweepstakes, with Andre Iguodala being the main trade bait. One of my friends, a fellow Sixers fan, said yesterday that if Sixers GM Ed Stefanski pulled this deal off, he’d anoint the oft-criticized Stefanski "King of Philadelphia."
In fact, he said Stefanski would warrant the regal moniker even if he made the trade and ‘Melo only played one minute in a Sixers uniform. Yes, that’s how much Philly fans love their Iggy…the majority just want him gone at this point.
On paper, Iguodala’s numbers are fine. Matter of fact — they’re pretty damn good. Since Allen Iverson jettisoned Philly for Denver back in December of 2006, Iggy has averaged 18.5 points, 5.8 rebounds and 5.4 assists. And there’s no doubt that the former ‘Zona Wildcat has immense talent to go along with his incredible leaping ability, as Nate Robinson surely knows.
It’s quite amazing how much national perception can differ from the local feel, though. On the outside looking in, many will look at Iggy’s well-rounded statistics and be comfortable putting him as the 26th best player in the League. But trust me when I say that many Philadelphians are going to disagree.
So, what’s the problem with Andre and the city of not so brotherly love?
Defense? Nah. Iguodala is regarded as an above-average defender around the League, and his size (6-6, 207 pounds) and speed allows him to cover the likes of Kobe, LeBron, Durant and usually any other team’s best player on a nightly basis. Many Philly fans know and appreciate this defensive effort.
Durability? Not even close. Andre has only missed six games his entire career, all at the end of the ’06-07 season.
The jump shot? Well, it certainly isn’t pretty and it certainly isn’t great. Iggy’s 44.3 percent field goal percentage last season was the worst of his career, and his career mark of 32.1 percent from beyond the arc is not very good at all. But when you consider Kobe’s marks of 45.6 FG% and 32.9 3P% from last year, Iggy’s numbers don’t look so awful. And lord knows Allen Iverson didn’t shoot very well when he was shining in a Sixers uni, either.
The problem with Iggy dates back to that gloomy winter day when the little guy left, when Andre Iguodala became the primary ‘AI’ in the locker room. The Sixers never intended to draft Iguodala as a replacement for Allen Iverson, but that’s the position Iguodala had to assume simply because he was the next best player on the team. And because of that, Philadelphia has been mired in mediocrity and inconsistency the last four seasons until this past year when they thankfully lost enough games to land the No. 2 draft pick.
So, it’s not all Iggy’s fault. He’s a good guy, a sick dunker, a great talent, but frankly, Andre Iguodala is not a franchise player. Tools abound, he’s not the leader that LeBron is. He’s not the winner that Kobe is. He doesn’t have the heart that AI played with every game.
Some nights, he puts up fantastic numbers. Others, he disappears. Although his shooting percentages are decent, Iguodala often settles for the jumper instead of driving the lane, where he can thrive. And the worst attribute — he’s not the type to take over the game in the waning minutes. He’s just not that guy.
The point is, Iguodala’s had to be that guy since Iverson left. Sure, Iggy’s numbers greatly increased when the Answer exited Philly, and maybe they would diminish again if he was on another team, but I believe he’d flourish much more as a big impact role player than as a franchise guy. And maybe with Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner emerging for the 76ers this year, Iggy might play down into more of a successful role, but that’s to be seen.
I’d say that’s a pretty accurate take from what I’ve seen living in Philly the last couple years.
That said, I find statements like this funny:
Tools abound, he’s not the leader that LeBron is.
Why do we always have to throw some intangible leadership quality into there? Lebron is a far and away better player, and that’s basically what that sentence is saying, but it has to use the word “leader” instead, and I just don’t get why.
He’s not the winner that Kobe is.
Similar – so he’s both not as good as Kobe and not on as good of a team as Kobe. Why do we have to anoint people “winners” like they have some mythical quality to them? It’s a simple matter of one player both being better than the other and having better teammates. No more, no less.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Another Surprising view...
On a potential Iggy/Melo swap, from Tom Sunnergren of Philadunkia, quoted in Berri’s Opposing Views. I want to have this comment framed…
Expectations would be high. Through the roof. They would literally explode through the roof. After enough roofs were destroyed, people would learn not to keep these expectations indoors. They’d be left outside to soar, to be free. And why not? Carmelo Anthony is the single best player in basketball not named Kobe, Lebron or Durant! We know that because he scores the most. You can’t win without scoring points, anybody knows that. And the guy he’s replacing? Iguodala? More like "ugly(jumper)odala!" That guy sucks. Look at his scoring for crying out loud. Carmelo scores waaaaaaay more than him. Carmelo, points, Carmelo, twenty-eight a game, Carmelo, scorer, Carmellllllllloooooo! That’s how the conventional wisdom would go. And who could argue with it. Carmelo does score a lot of points. And everybody knows the best player is the guy who scores the most. Period.
Pretty soon though the Sixers would have to start playing games, would lose these games, and this unexpected losing would cause the hype train –fuelled by a month of irrational exuberance– to tragically derail, possibly killing Phil Jasner. After Jasner was mourned, people would return to puzzling over why the Sixers, the purportedly reborn Sixers, were losing games at such a break-neck pace. It’s the chemistry, Jrue Holliday hasn’t developed, Carmelo isn’t comfortable under the harsh Philly-spotlight, Doug Collins is the culprit, Lou Williams isn’t driving enough, Phil Collins is the culprit (The PA had played too much Genesis in pregame), Evan Turner hasn’t warranted his high pick, the papers would loudly speculate, throwing darts at the mounting losses. The question that would be on the tip of everyone’s tongue (or the tongues of the few who were still paying attention to an NBA team with a .250 winning percentage) would be an understandable one: What the hell happened?
This, dear reader, is what the hell happened. The reason the Sixers, despite swapping a scrub like Iguodala for a top player like Melo, would still suck is because Carmelo Anthony – all-star, 2ndteam all-NBA, Olympic gold medalist, NCAA national-champion, Carmelo Anthony– sucks. And Andre Iguodala is a star.
(OK, he overstates the issue slightly, but sometimes this must be done, in the name of hilarity.)
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 30, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ha nice. Even though here in Philly it would be more like the Sixers lose a few games, and everyone goes back to ignoring them. Business as usual.
by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, he just flat out says Carmelo Anthony sucks. Is he that desperate to prove a point? Sorry, I don’t think it’s necessary to go to such extremes.
My view on Melo remains the same: he’s expensive, pretty to watch, and not very efficient.
by Doctor Kajita on Oct 1, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
My view on Melo remains the same: he’s expensive, pretty to watch, and not very efficient.
Really? I don’t know why, but I’ve never found his game particularly enjoyable to watch. Lots of slow boring iso play. Like Maggette but without all the driving and collisions. Maybe we just have different tastes when it comes to the aesthetic value of basketball, but I prefer someone who is more fluid, creative, or athletic. Carmelo doesn’t really strike me as any of those. Well, I guess he can get from a triple threat to a jumpshot pretty fluidly, but that’s not exactly what I’m talking about. ;-)
Golden State Warriors '10-'11 Season: The Return of ^^^^
it all comes down to Brand
They’ll do everything they can to move Brand. They’ll even be willing to part with Iggy just to accomplish that, if it puts them in the black. If you can show them $20 mil in expirings, and decent young value with the rest of the contracts, they’ll bite if they don’t get Melo.
Brand is quite an albatross to have to wear.
by Uwe Blog on Sep 30, 2010 3:39 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
this topic's been discussed to death in multiple threads
but this, i think, summarizes the common sentiment regarding ellis for iggy:
1. We love ellis
2. Iggy is better
3. Brand will probably come attached to the hip in any trade for Iggy, and Brand is quite bad on multiple levels.
4. Don’t call Iguodala Iggy.
Goal: 8 seed!
I would take Iguodala over Ellis, but wouldn't trade him in a deal where we have to gie up important pieces or take back Brand.
I meant that if we are going to give up significant pieces along with Monta, then it should be for a top 15 player. I would definitely make a straight up trade Ellis for Iguodala, but I was assuming that you meant with additional pieces added in.
After Udoh comes back, maybe we can trade Gadz for Trevor Ariza, provided Ariza isn’t working out for the Hornets. Ariza is the defender we need, as a complement to Curry and considering his defense, wouldn’t really be overpaid much if at all, is more plausible a pick-up, and he’s half the price of Iggy (not that Iggy isn’t worth the price… he is). We can use Ariza off the bench until a good trade for Monta comes along, after Monta proves he can play efficient offense (which I call officiente… new word, heard it here first).
We’re not going to get Iggy for Monta. That’s ridiculous. Iggy is way, way more valuable than Monta.
The Golden Glow is the only way to reach the upper level.
3 way
Doug Collins is talking about team play and defense. The anti-Monta. I don’t believe Philadelphia would want Monta at all. However, Denver will need to replace Melo’s scoring and that’s right up Monta’s alley. So:
GS sends : Monta, a #1 draft pick, and appropriate expirings
GS receives: Iguodala
Philly sends: Iguodala and a #1 draft pick
Philly recieves: Melo
Denver sends: Melo
Denver receives: Monta and 2 #1 draft picks and expirings [from GS]
This scenario doesn’t gut any team, gives Denver something for Melo that they will not get next year, and for GS gets Iguodala while maintaining the integrity of the team. As Sleepy said from a position of strength. This team has given too much away in the past with little return.
This scenario doesn’t gut any team, gives Denver something for Melo that they will not get next year, and for GS gets Iguodala while maintaining the integrity of the team
Ok, you’ve given some good reasons why it should happen , now come up with the reasons why it won’t happen?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 1, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Doug Collins is talking about team play and defense. The anti-Monta. I don’t believe Philadelphia would want Monta at all.
The assumption that GM (Stefanski) and coach are on the same page vis a vis players is not always a safe one. GMs undermine coaches on a regular enough basis that I wouldn’t consider Collins’ defense first philosophy to be a certain blocker against Philly acquiring Monta. I am not saying I expect it to happen – - I don’t – - but it’s far, far, far from impossible.
by jae on Oct 1, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Only if Carmelo agrees to contract to Philly beforehand.
There is just no decent trade proposal involving Carmelo unless he agrees to a long-term deal beforehand. If Carmelo can agree to go to Philly … then
this is possible but GS would have to include something besides the #1 … perhaps Uh-Oh ?
3 way 2
Spoken like a true skeptic! You will no doubt be better at this than I will. Some things that come up: Greed, stubbornness, delusional overvaluing or undervaluing. But the basic structure seems to be elegant and effective. The details can always be tweaked. Denver wanted more #1 draft picks from Philly or NY or NJ and this gives them more than Philly can do alone. Plus, the expirings can come from any team to any team of the 3 depending on needs and egos.
If we , GS, can get Iguodala at a reasonable value I believe we should. Curry is an improving defensive player, but next to Monta he is a defensive liability. Next to Iguodala he is an asset with his vision and steals ability. And Iguodala is much more of a team player who makes everyone around him better. Monta is more sexy, but he does not make others around him better. Iguodala will help Curry reach the next level and will support Lee, Biedrans, Wright, et al to improve as well. He could be the catalyst that puts the Warriors back in the playoffs.
Some things that come up: Greed, stubbornness, delusional overvaluing or undervaluing.
The spices of life in other words? :>)
Maybe you should get on the phone and make your arguments to Lacob, Philly and Denver so they can’t add “didn’t think of it” to the list?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 1, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
If trade was possible, we have to do it
I think we are missing several things with this rumor. I agree that Brand would have to be included. But, that may not be as bad as everyone things. If we take Brand’s contract, we would only have to give up Ellis and expirings, plus, the contract is so bad, I think we could pick up a number 1. That number 1 should be pretty good for a few years. And Brand will be horribly overpriced, but not as useless as everyone thinks. We have our starting PF, so Brand will only need to give us 18-20 minutes a game. I have a feeling he could be very effective in a reduced role. In Philly, he had to be the man and certainly wasn’t up to the task. And the really exciting part, this team would be long, a little deeper, much better on defense and the offense would be amazing. Two long wings, a skilled passer at 4 positions, great pick and role people, (Brand would be a great pick and role partner off the bench for Curry) We could be top 5 in the west with this trade.
For Philly, this makes some sense. Get back a great scorer, something they don’t have. Holiday is a big PG and can off set Ellis at the 2. And of course, they dump Brand for expiring contracts.
This trade would make a lot of sense for both teams, but I think it is a much better deal for the Warriors. So, of course, it won’t happen.
We can dream
some of us want the team to be better, you know.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 5, 2010 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions
You don't think trading Monta for Iguodala would make us better?
I think if you turn a top 40 player into a top 20 player, you get better.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Oct 5, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
We can dream some of us want the team to be better, you know.
probably easier to just let the fans get worse and go with the apparent appearance of improvement?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 5, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
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