Solidify Our C
by dubious dubz on Sep 7, 2010 9:03 PM PDT
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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2a5ndpx
This works out both ways. It's simple - we don't need Melo. But we can snag a very powerful center from Denver in Nene. In return, we give a fading promise in Wright and VladRad. For Denver, that translates into two expiring contracts to which they can solidify Carmelo and bring in the help he wants. For us, that gives us a powerful C in Nene that would work incredibly well in a two man rotation with Beans, leaving Lee to stay at his best position at PF. Also, this limits Udoh's minutes for when he comes back, allowing him to spend more time developing and watching Lee's style of play. Lastly, as much as I despise Monta's character, I'll be one of the only ones to admit that we cannot do without his crazy ability to score. Not trading him and deeping him in our lineup guarantees 20 plus extra points a game, and I'm not willing to lose that just yet. Curry would feed like a maniac into Nene; that'd be the craziest duo.
Denver would also be fine upfront with Birdman, VladRad, our old friend Al, Kenyon, and Brandon. Dumping B-Wright's and VladRad's expiring contracts would really be a plus for them, as well as their hopes to retain Melo
Our lineup would look something like this
Biedrins/Nene/Udoh
Lee/Udoh/Gadz
Wright/Carney/Williams
Monta/Williams/ Bell
Curry/Lin/Bell
^^^^ that screams playoffs at me
Not only would the dubs rake in the rebounds, we would be a dominant inside force at the post, leaving our only position of improvement at SF.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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LOL
Denver would not do this… Sorry
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
by Potential on Sep 7, 2010 9:07 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I disagree
with their signing of harrington, they’re pretty set upfront (with birdman, al, and kenyon). I don’t see why they wouldn’t want to gain some expire contracts to either lure melo back or gear up for a big free agent push.
No they aren't
K-Mart is out for half of the season, Al Harrington is NOT a starting caliber anything, and Birdman, while good, is best used as defense off the bench.
Nene is a very very good player. We won’t get him by trading an oft-injured young PG and an oft-terrible old C.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 7, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Al's proven himself
He’s a little undersized, but he puts up 17 plus a game and an above average rebounder and 3 point shooter for his size
Al Harrington
is a terrible rebounder. He rebounds like a small forward but plays power forward. He isn’t really that good of a shooter, is a bad passer, is a bad defender, is a bad scorer, and is just a below average player overall.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 7, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
but he puts up 17 plus a game and an above average rebounder and 3 point shooter for his size
Statements like that which are just plain wrong tend not to lend much support to an argument. Harrington is not a good rebounder. He’s not an above average rebounder.. He’s not even an adequate rebounder. As a PF he’s downright terrible on the glass, far below average for the position.
He’s a very good 3 point shooter but there’s no bonus points for “his size” on the shot. He’s a terrible interior scorer and doesn’t get fouled enough to make him a particularly useful scorer. He’s been strictly average efficiency the last few years. Were he a good rebounder or passer or fabulous defender, that would be acceptable. But as a terrible rebounder who doesn’t pass well and isn’t an elite defender, he’s a liability. He has proven himself, it’s just what he’s proved hasn’t been particularly good.
by jae on Sep 8, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed.
If your main reason why Denver does this is to receive expirings in order to extend a contract to Carmelo, I think it’s not very good rationale. I’m not sure there is anything the Nuggets can do within their power to retain Anthony. Trading away Nene would not help that cause as much as it would harm it. Plus Nene is way more valuable than that.
I’m not sure how faded Brandan is, either. If he can stay healthy, I really like his game, actually.
not the only reason
carmelo is just like the rest of those empty stars- he’ll go anywhere to win. the money wiht those two contracts is a nice topper to bring in or trade for someone melo would approve of
I just don't think he wants to stay in Denver.
I could be wrong, but it becomes less about the team acquiring a good player, as much as it is a desire for a change of scenery. I’m don’t consider myself a reliable source of advice to the lovelorn, but Denver fans should get used to the idea of being the benefactors of a somewhat undesirably located franchise.
Miami is nice and sunny and the women are beautiful. New York is New York and LA will always be considered one of the most desirable place to live by much of the world. Why would Carmelo want to stay in Denver? Karl is no longer going to be there. Chauncey isn’t going to be Chauncey soon. Why not just go to New York or somewhere better? I don’t particularly like Denver’s roster in terms of what the future holds. They will have a lot of cap room, but they kind of have that Cleveland quality as far as places you’d like to live.
At the end of the day, sure, it’s all about winning. Does Denver give you that prospect now as much as it did a couple of years ago? I’m not so sure…
oft-injured young PG
Should obviously say PF.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 7, 2010 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
actually
i think denver would do this.
- because nene is injured the last time i heard or just injury prone.
- because denver is in somewhat a rebuilding stage and want to offload any baggage.
- because maybe wright will sprout and they have an expiring in vlad and wright.
by bimmercirem3 on Sep 7, 2010 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Teams don't trade very good players for trash
unless that player is a dick and demanding a trade. They especially don’t trade their best big by a wide margin. If you think Denver would do this, you’re wrong.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 8, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Nene played 82 games last season and 77 the year before.
They’re not worried about injuries with him at this point.
And as I said before, you don’t rebuild by getting rid of players like Nene for scraps.
In return, we give a fading promise in Wright and Gadz
Except that your trade link trades away Radman.
How is it possible to confuse...
Radmanovic and Gadzuric?
That alone throws up a ton of red flags to me as far as your basketball knowledge. Sorry. Plus the fact that you’d think the Nuggets would be alright with one less player who can play center. Nene and Anderson are not so much true centers as it is, and on a playoff caliber team, Al Harrington or Kenyon Martin (even healthy) are NOT centers, unless you’re playing a Don Nelson-esque run and gun offense. Wright and Radmanovic are nowhere near the overall value OR trade value of someone like Nene, who was arguably the most efficient scoring big man last season. He never attempts to play out of his comfort zone, but he is VERY good when within that comfort zone. No GM in their right mind would trade him for two players who played a combined 41 games last season.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
They're both
useless bigs with expiring contracts for roughly the same amount, Gad being a bit more expensive.
BTW, just saw a report on CSN that Louis Admundson is close to making a decision, and the Warriors are a top team on his list.
But they're on our team...
Vladi is about as European and soft as NBA players get…Gadzuric is almost the exact opposite. You can’t really suggest a trade as viable option for both teams if you don’t even know who you’re trading.
As for Amundson, eh. He gives us more depth. But what’s he good at other than hustling? Unless we’re paying him league minimum, I’d rather have somebody cheaper from the D-League or an unsigned rookie.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
It was an easy mistake to make
because in all honesty, the typical Warrior fan has not seen much of either of them. I know I’m trying to justify it, it’s just not that big of deal to me in the first place, as I think this trade would have little chance of ever happening, anyway.
Amundson – I compare him to Matt Barnes, as one of those guys who can help a team win, but isn’t a great individual player. Amundson gives you a nice edge and is an underrated player.
He’s a great offensive rebounder, moves extremely well without the ball, not a great finisher, but not bad because he’s very aggressive and draws a lot of fouls. He’s actually a decent shot blocker. He goes to battle in the defensive post, and isn’t a stupid player.
He’s a player that won’t lose the game for you when you put him in, and in some instances, he’ll win it for you with extra possessions in crunch time. Our team will be in a great position to make a deal this season before the deadline, and Louis can give you a nice edge in negotiations, if you’re talking to a team that wants to make a push in the playoffs.
Eh.
Just see this post as overall pretty ignorant or biased toward us. I’m going to leave it at that.
From what I’ve seen of Amundson he’s a a lesser version of Varejao (about half), who’s effectiveness I would compare to Barnes’, and not Amundson’s. Looking around, I am noticing that he’s a better shot blocker than I’ve given him credit for. Good hustle player, and can’t be a bad signing. Just don’t see it as necessary.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
I see it as a good move simply because we don’t have a viable backup C. He’s a significant upgrade on the likes of Gadz or Hunter.
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe I'm just thinking about the money too much.
Another thing that bothers me is that he just isn’t a center. 6’9? 235? Just not big enough. At last Hunter was big enough. Lou is without a doubt better and more talented but not more effective as center. We don’t another big incapable of being a solid center. Solid player. Can’t hurt. But all I’m saying is he is far from necessary.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Hunter played like he was 6'8"
what’s the point in being big if you can’t rebound or block shots. He could adequately play man-to-man post defense, but that was his whole value. We need a guy that isn’t a total bum at center. This actually makes me really miss Turiaf.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 11, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
But my whole point is Amundson ISN'T a center.
We have guys that can leap and shot block already. Beans, Wright, Udoh when he’s back. None of them can actually d-up a legit 7 foot NBA center, though. Hunter could at least put the body on him. Theres gotta be somebody out there that’s big and strong. Maybe we can have Amundson and someone else.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
He's much more of a center than Hunter.
He’s just a better player overall. I’m not sure how much stronger Hunter is than Amundson, and Louis is crazy. He works very hard and always has a body on someone. Again, there are not a lot of offensive options league wide at the center position. While I think Amundson can effectively handle most of these guys on a nightly basis, I like him under the basket because of his ability to block shots. He can redirect penetration much better than Chris Hunter.
Hunter might be a bad center...
but he’s more of a center than Amundson. Can Amundson put a body on a 265 pound player? That’s one thing Hunter had last year that no one else on our team did. He wasn’t very good, but he was able to do that one thing, even if it wasn’t that effective. That’s why I’d like to get somebody bigger than Amundson.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Hunter is not an effective defender.
Don’t confuse size with ability.
Hunter is probably worse at defending bigs than Amundsen. He fouls like a madman, doesn’t block a lot of shots and doesn’t generate steals.
As a center, Hunter gave up a TS% of .557. That makes him a below average defender, but not by a ton, so it’s probably an acceptable number for a backup.
As a center, Amundsen gave up a TS% of .535, which makes him an above average defender. He does that while getting more blocks, more steals, and commiting fewer fouls – and, oh yeah, grabbing more rebounds.
Now, it’s quite possible that there are factors which make these numbers misleading. For example, maybe Amundsen doesn’t play many minutes at center against the biggest opponents. It’s possible (although I’d want to see some evidence that this was the case before I assumed it to be so).
But, baring that evidence, it appears that Amundson can do a better job defending those 265-lb opposing players than Hunter can.
Where'd you get this information?
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 12, 2010 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I calculated the TS% myself based on information at 82games.com
Blocks, steals, rebounds, and fouls information came from basketball reference.
82games :S
I don’t like that site because they really seem like they’re not very thorough. The Opponent-48-minute PER ratings for PF is 0 :/
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
BTW
That’s for Hunter:
http://www.82games.com/0910/09GSW17.HTM
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
I didn't say he was effective.
Quote: He wasn’t very good, but he was able to do that one thing, even if it wasn’t that effective.
You’re right about the number possibly being misleading, though. Amundson goes in at center when other teams are trying to match up with the Suns. Hunter saw his most action when other teams were forcing us to match up with their bigs. I wouldn’t mind having Amundson, but not if that means we won’t get another larger player. He’s a better player by probably a lot, but he doesn’t have a body, and the only guy on our team that does is Gadzuric, and even he is only about 245. Hunter is actually only listed at 240, but I doubt that. He’s a pretty big dude. I’m not saying it has to be Hunter, but I don’t want to overpay for Amundson and end up with nobody that can keep 7 footers away from the basket.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
Well, what you're saying then becomes fairly nonsensical:
He was able to do one thing, but he did it badly, so, um … why is that an asset, then?
Well, we got AMundsen and I think you’re going to be disappointed about who else we add. We’ll have to see how well he handles the post against bigger opponents, but I’m cautiously optimistic given that the only objective measurements we have – while they may be imperfect – suggest that he’s pretty good at it.
Quote: He wasn’t very good, but he was able to do that one thing, even if it wasn’t that effective.
That’s a rather ridiculous attempt to salvage what you initially wrote.
When someone is not effective at something, it’s peculiar to say that he can actually ‘do’ that thing. That’s like saying one thing Biedrins can do is make FTs (which, in the strictest sense it true since he HAS made them) but he’s just not effective at it.
I’m of the mind if he cant be effective at the task, it’s no different from him not being able to do it. Saying he can do something, just not effectively, is a meaningless distinction.
Not really
Thats more of a cheap shot at his argument than anything else.
Being able to do something with small effect is different than just not being able to do something.
In your example, for example, it’s true that Biedrins can technically make free throws, but he is “not very effective” at it, while an armless person, who is just not built to shoot a freethrow, simply is “not able to do it.” Biedrins is “able to do that one thing.” Even if he’s not “that effective.” There is a difference between someone who “cant be effective” and someone who is “not able to do it.” And it’s not “peculiar” to say “he can actually do that thing, just not effectively.”
Brownie just has a different opinion than you about what we need. It doesnt mean he is invalid or has to salvage an arugment to please you.
I dont agree with him, but just knocking him for no reason seems like “a meaningless distinction.”
by WestCoastWarrior on Sep 14, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
In that reading -
- then a statement that “so-and-so” can do “basketball activity” is trivial.
To take these things to their logical conclusion:
I can defend an NBA center. I can hit a three-point shot. I can grab rebounds. Of course, by NBA standards I am really, really, really bad at these things. So much so that to talk about me being able to do them at an NBA level is absurd. But I “can” do them.
Similarly, Amundsen “can” body up a 245lb -center, which was the actual task being discussed in this example. He may not be particularly good at it (or he might be better than Hunter at it) – but you can’t say you want Hunter because he can body up a 245-lb-center when comparing him to Amundsen if you are using “can” or “is able to” or words to that effect in the strictly literal sense you describe.
In other contexts, talking about a player being able to do something but not being very good at it might be meaningful. This context, however, makes it abundantly clear that such a usage wasn’t at all what Brownie had in mind. (Heckuva job there, Brownie …)
And any attempt for him to claim otherwise after the fact is just silly.
Amudson is a much, much, much better player than Chris Hunter. Chris Hunter is the type of player you’d get from the D-League or as an unsigned rookie. Players like that really hurt your team when they’re out on the court. Amudson might not be that good, but he can play some D, give us some energy, get some rebounds, and even finish the occasional basket. That gives us a heck of a lot more than someone like Chris Hunter.
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
You brought him up before anyone did, or at least before Missing Barry. And if you didn’t introduce him, you did say we should get a D-league caliber big man, which implies someone like Chris Hunter. The problem is that Chris Hunter is really bad.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 12, 2010 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, I said D-league.
Granted, quality bigs in the d-league aren’t as common as wings and guards, but Amundson himself came from the D-league. A 2nd/3rd center only needs to be a body anyway. I’m not saying a different option would be better, I just don’t think we should be spending more than the minimum on anybody right now, especially if what we need is a center (and I mean center, not forward who fills in at center, which in that case would be 6’11, 250+) and Amundson is not one. If he’s minimum or just around a million for a year, great deal. closer to 2 million or 3 million? And multiple years, eh no thank you. He’s definitely the best big still available, but I have in mind what’s to much too dish out to him, and I have a feeling that’s what we’d have to pay to get him.
Is Don Nelson going to Hawaii forever now?
What's wrong with signing Amundson to multiple years?
He’s not old yet. It’s not like you’d be locking him in until he was 35- more like till he’s 30 and it would probably be for less than what Ronny makes, which is about $4 M.
$4 M a year is about the going rate for a remotely decent backup big.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 13, 2010 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions
And we got Amundson for 2.5 million a year, and he's a good big.
He’s better than some starters and could definitely be the 3rd big on a very good team (oh wait, the Suns)
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 13, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
"(oh wait, the suns)"
I’m not sure what your point is here.
Amundsen showed pretty clearly he was deserving of a bigger opportunity than the one he had in Pheonix last year.
But he’s not going into the season as our third big. Right now, he’s after Biedrins, Lee, and B. Wright on the depth chart.
I’m saying he was the 3rd big on the Suns, and the Suns were a very good team. I said he’s a good player capable of playing this role. What’s confusing?
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 13, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I was responding to this:
I’d rather have somebody cheaper from the D-League or an unsigned rookie
That cheap D-Leaguer or unsigned rookie is Chris Hunter. Hunter is a replacement level player, and if it’s not him specifically we get, it’s someone just as bad, because that’s what those D-Leaguers and unsigned rookies are – just like Hunter, they’re replacement level players.
by Missing Barry on Sep 13, 2010 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
How can you say that considering the d-league on average has produced better players than late first round picks and second round picks?
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 13, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Has it produced better bigs?
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 13, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe not, but Rod Benson and Dwayne Jones are definitely not scrubs. They're NBA players.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 13, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
What team does Rod Benson play for?
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 13, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
He just recently left D-League for Europe. Shame really, no one would sign him.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 13, 2010 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions
So he isn't an NBA player
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 13, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He should be an NBA player. His performance in the d-league shows that.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 14, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
You have a strange definition of NBA player
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 14, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Not really.
His performance in the d-league shows he clearly should be in the NBA. Read up on RidiculousUpside, they agree too.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 15, 2010 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Read up on RidiculousUpside.
Team’s just don’t use the d-league. They’ll take a creaky Francisco Elson over a d leaguer. They made excuses that his personality would get in the way, his blog was too much of a distraction. Then he shut down the blog, and guess what MORE excuses. That he wouldn’t be satisfied on the bench, and he would complain. Ridiculous huh?
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 16, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d be interested in whatever data/research you’re referring to, here. Seems to me this is likely a case where you’re comparing the entire population of late first round/second rounders to the subgroup of NBA d-leaguers who perform at the very top of the d-league, and thus get a shot to make an NBA roster. If that’s the case, that’s a big selective sampling issue.
That said, just from a logic standpoint, d-leaguers really are replacement level players. That is, they’re freely available in the D-league for NBA teams to pick up at will….
by Missing Barry on Sep 14, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
The Wages of Wins journal (sorry, don’t have the link right now) has something on it, showing that the undrafted pool actually outperformed the late 1st rounders per minute played.
There’s quite a bit that goes into this though. For starters, the undrafted generally don’t get guaranteed contracts where late 1st rounders are guaranteed 2 year deals at more than the minimum. A lousy D-leaguer gets his 10 day contract and if he shows nothing, is gone, few minutes actually played. The lousy late 1st rounder will get paraded out in garbage time for 2 years while the team tries to squeeze blood from that rock since they get paid anyhow.
Good players from both groups get minutes. It’s the ability to get rid of the lousy ones quickly that seems to have the most impact on the “on average” portion of the statement.
Seems to me this is likely a case where you’re comparing the entire population of late first round/second rounders to the subgroup of NBA d-leaguers who perform at the very top of the d-league, and thus get a shot to make an NBA roster. If that’s the case, that’s a big selective sampling issue.
Bingo. And it’s not just selection in who makes it from the D-league, but the ability to scrap the lousy d-leaguers in short order, something not so easy with late first rounders unless teams are willing to eat most of a 2 year deal.
Come on, that's too broad of a statement.
The D-League has produced four above average players for the Warriors in the past couple seasons.
by Spider Jerusalem on Sep 16, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
The D-League has produced four above average players for the Warriors in the past couple seasons.
but it don’t take much to be above average on a typical warriors hurt squad.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 16, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
But none of them were bigs
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 16, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm guessing that's because in the NBA they'll find you if your 6'10 or taller, even if you kinda suck.
Only case not true : Rod Benson.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 16, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I wish he got some NBA minutes so we could actually see
if he could play in the NBA.
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 16, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
As Rev Randy said, they were all wings (the easiest position to find because there are LOTS of pretty talented wings out there, more than there are available spots in the NBA). Let’s also keep in mind how often we’ve swung and missed on guys, too. Especially bigs. It’s been all misses.
by Missing Barry on Sep 16, 2010 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, wasn’t Morrow just an undrafted FA rather than a DLeaguer?
by Missing Barry on Sep 16, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
He wasn't, but you mentioned unsigned rookies (I assumed you'd meant undrafted).
And yeah, bigs are harder to find (which isn’t a surprise, there aren’t that many tall people). Although Kurz was not completely awful in his time with the Warriors. And by that I mean he has his own highlight video set to a Hulk Hogan diss track as performed by Randy Savage.
by Spider Jerusalem on Sep 16, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
not a bad idea, give the guy a break
but we would need to throw in a draft pick to sweeten the deal – might still be worth it. Denver is going to be in rebuild mode pretty soon anyway.
Draft pick
I’m not sure we can do this, since we made that useless Williams trade for a conditional 1st rounder. If you want to talk about sweetening the pick with a 2nd rounder, well, with the emergence of the D-League as a reputable force of which to find quality players, I’m not so sure how sweet a 2nd rounder would actually be.
teams don't rebuild by giving away reasonably-priced, reasonably-young above-average centers for nothing.
Or even for mid first-round draft picks.
And let’s all remember that mid-first round draft picks and later just don’t have much trade value.
by Missing Barry on Sep 8, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would Denver do this?
Nene is a player who they expect to play starters minutes.
Denver ALREADY has over $25M coming off the books next offseason – not counting Melo’s $17m contract – and another $45m the year after. They’re not going to dump salary.
Furthermore, teams trying to dump salary don’t dump a slightly overpaid, above-average starting center with two years on his contract for expirings.
Not without getting something of real value back. A first round pick isn’t going to do it.
by Ronaldinho on Sep 7, 2010 10:16 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
why?
I think its not impossible for denver to throw their own free agent coup with all their money. could anyone picture anthony/paul/yao in denver? why not dump more salary in nene
by dubious dubz on Sep 14, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Because Nene is a good player on a reasonable contract.
And you don’t throw away good players on reasonable contracts on a completely hypothetical chance of landing a “coup” with some un-named free agent.
When proposing possible trades, it’s usually smart to assume that the other team is not being totally moronic. Sometimes you’ll be wrong, but most of the time, it’s a good guideline.
too much talent to give for Memphis.
It’s a good trade, but I doubt Memphis will go with this. Just too much young talent they are giving away.
I hate to overreact, but nothing is more offensive to me than potential lineups. Is there anything more obligatory in the world of fanposts? Inevitably there will be one or two players listed at a position that even Nelson would have to be high on acid to even consider. Gadzuric at PF? Come on, man!
This post unintentionally speaks to the problem I just can’t let go about this season: The Warriors front court depth, or lack thereof, is an utter atrocity. Obviously Udoh’s freak injury could not have been foreseen, but if they don’t get Amundson, they had better find something more palatable than Chris Hunter to fill out the roster. Christ, I’d rather have Mikki Moore and his snakes on a plane than trade away B.Wright, with nothing but upside, for an aging, injured Nene, leaving the likes of D.Wright and Carney to play the 4.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 8, 2010 5:36 PM PDT reply actions
you would rather keep B. Wright then get Nene?
I dunno bout that.
Because talent? You want to add a guy like boozer because hes talented? I’m sorry i just don’t see that as a valid reason. -- fffindeed
by wallywagon11 on Sep 9, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I hate to overreact, but nothing is more offensive to me than potential lineups
I won’t go quite that far, but I tend to find them more or less meaningless as well. For starters, the number of teams who play the ‘textbook’ 1,2,3,4,5 lineup for the majority of a game is pretty rare. The number of minutes played by guys listed as centers is far lower than the number of minutes allocated to guys listed as PFs, and far more than 1/5th of all minutes are allocated to guys who are primarily “SGs”.
Far more useful than this mythological depth chart is the hypothetical rotation of 8 or 9 players that most teams run, with the players divided more or less into “bigs” (1 or 2 on the court at a time), “wings” (2 or 3 on the court) and a primary ball handler (usually just one). And some taller SFs straddle the line between wing and big and some SGs wind up as primary ball handler so even these designations are artificial in real practice. How 240 minutes are divvied up is far more informative than whether or not Wright or Udoh’s name gets listed to the right of David Lee’s.
by jae on Sep 9, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I like it. Let’s see if we can start a trend. Here’s a trial run:
mpg / player
38 Curry
36 Lee
36 Ellis
28 Biedrins
26 RWilliams
26 DWright
16 BWright
14 Carney
12 Amundson
--
(4 Gadzuric — eventually Udoh)
(4 Bell)
--
240
If it’s clearer to break it down by position, let’s limit it to the three “real” positions you laid out:
PBH (48): Curry 38 / Ellis 6 / Bell 4
Wings (96): Ellis 30 / RWilliams 26 / DWright 26 / Carney 14
Bigs (96): Lee 36 / Biedrins 28 / BWright 16 / Amundson 12 / Gadz 4
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 9, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think you should cut Carney down to 9, and give the 6 remaining to Dorell and Reggie.
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by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 9, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Well played!
This method is much more palatable.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 9, 2010 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Rodney Carney for big minutes.
I like the idea of playing Carney big minutes early on, allowing Dorell Wright to come along slowly. With Carney gaining a substantial amount of minutes during the first half of the season, it allows Wright’s body to become more acclimated, while giving him just enough minutes to keep a rhythm going. I do think we will suffer more losses early, as our players will still be learning about each other. Regardless of the PT shift between Wright and Carney, I think we will still suffer the same fate early on.
After the break, we can switch things up a bit and begin to ride Dorell a little harder, as we prepare to make an impression in the playoffs. I’d just hate to see Nellie abuse Dorell’s ability to pass and shoot at 6-9, moving him to PF and moving Lee to C (Reducing Andris’ minutes). This is a chief concern of mine. Not only would this be disastrous in repairing our relationship with Biedrins, but it would most likely take out Wright with injury, as he’d be going against more physical opponents in a tumultuous area on the basketball court – and there goes our investment and hopes for the future at SF.
I’m very worried about Don Nelson ruining this year, and taking the wind from the sails of our new ownership. He could do damage that could significantly slow us down towards being a future playoff team.
I like the idea of playing Carney big minutes early on, allowing Dorell Wright to come along slowly.
I’d like this plan better if Carney was actually a reasonably good player. But since he hasn’t shown an ability to shoot or rebound or pass, the plan leaves much to be desired.
Well, he did average 5.8 rebounds per 36 last season (9.4 TR%) — half-decent for a 3 and excellent for a 2. (Or should I say “pretty good for a wing.”) Throw in the fact that he doesn’t give the ball away too much, loves to run, and is meant to be a good defender, and it’s hard to see how he’ll hurt us too much for 10-15 minutes a game.
But yeah: “big minutes” for a guy who hasn’t shown much in the way of actual basketball skills is probably not a good idea. Carney’s clanking in particular is almost certainly going to make us pine for the days of CJ, ’Buike and Morrow…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Sep 10, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't mean anything over 20 minutes
I should of clarified. His defense can actually be quite good. At this point in his career, he should know that is may be his final shot to succeed in the NBA. If we’re in a situation where Smart is coaching the team, and he stresses to Carney that he try to be our best on-ball defender, I think he can be productive in those minutes.
I think Dorell Wright should start. However, I don’t like the idea of playing him big minutes just yet. I think 26 mpg is fine. I want the team to gel first, producing wins collectively and on a consistent basis – then I’d like to see Dorell’s minutes go up. I think his risk of injury is greater than his value of wins he can produce, early on during the learning process. I stress this reasoning comparatively, as I’d resist him playing anything over 30mpg.
I don’t mean to baby the guy, but I’m very worried that we’ll see him fade with 12 games left, and the playoffs still abound. I don’t believe in his durability at this point, until he proves otherwise. Another injury would be very bad for his career, and our investment.
Bear in mind that there is going to be plenty of 3-guard action with Reggie at the 3. D.Wright and Carney will definitely be on a short leash. Nelson does not like players that aren’t skilled on offense, although Wright does have the 3pt-shot going for him.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona!
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 10, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
At this point in his career, he should know that is may be his final shot to succeed in the NBA.
One problem with this is that no matter how much a coach pay lip service to a player needing to play defense, points are what produce paychecks. It’s a very, very rare player who can make good on his ‘last chance’ by shining on defense.
Play above average defense and don’t score much, rarely shooting? You’re out of the league, even if you’ve been a net plus. Shoot every time you touch the ball such that you can rack up 20 points per game while your team loses as you remain slightly more active that a 3 toed sloth on defense? Fanboys will consider you a commodity and some GM will give you a raise.
I’m very worried about Don Nelson ruining this year.
What could ruin this year is injurys that encourage Nellie to get creative for wins.
by Only In Fairfax on Sep 12, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
mpg / player
mpg / player
38 Curry
36 Lee
36 Ellis
28 Biedrins
26 RWilliams
26 DWright
16 BWright
14 Carney
12 Amundson
—
(4 Gadzuric — eventually Udoh)
(4 Bell)
Haha, wow that makes our depth look awful. A ReggieWTF getting the 5th most minutes is not the sign of a playoff team. I might hafta down grade my 47 win prediction now that I’ve seen your chart.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 9, 2010 3:31 PM PDT reply actions
ReggieWTF is a good player. Stop your d-league hate trolling.
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by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 9, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he said him being 5th best is not the sign of a playoff team.
That’s not a compliment to Regg.
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by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 9, 2010 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he said him being 5th best is not the sign of a playoff team.
He’s only played about half of one season on a losing team ,so what don’t you understand about it? How many other playoff teams have a Dleague transplant getting the 5th most projected minutes?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 9, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh.
I guess I’m just curious why you still think Reggie coming out of the D-League has to do with anything at all. It just happens sometimes, alright? Remember Darko Milicic? Harold Miner? From a basketball perspective, (not GM) draft position does not equal value, it’s just first dibs on potential, and when potential is proven to be minimal, it no longer has value. Reggie has potential, and that is the bottom line. If it were possible to eject Reggie from his current contract and put him in this past summer’s draft class, in all likelihood, he would’ve been a top 5 choice. It means nothing!
How many other playoff teams have a Dleague transplant getting the 5th most projected minutes?
Here’s the thing… The Warriors have been so incredibly, supernaturally devastated by the injury bug, that they have been forced to dip into the D-League. Other teams have not had to go through such a dramatic detour to fill out their line up. You can’t compare a unique situation with a general one. Who’s to say where Reggie would be, if Azubuike never got hurt, or if our need for help stopped after Cartier Martin played his last game, and Bell came back to finish the season.
It doesn’t matter that he’s only played half a season. He was completely in sync with the flow of our game, and his skills are plain to see. If your talents translate, they translate. There is not a whole lot of mysticism involved, when it’s plain to see he got game.
Thanks Gov. Perhaps Skeptic missed last season.
by Only In Fairfax on Sep 12, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Gov. Perhaps Skeptic missed last season.
No, I saw probably all 24 games of WTF’s young NBA career but I’m not ready to crown him the next MJ just yet. Give him 2 full seasons then come back and tell me what you think.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 12, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
You're overvaluing the expiring contracts for someone
who isn’t even a malcontent on their team.
Especially when they already have a lot of money coming off the books anyway
I must look like a dork.
by Reverend_Randy on Sep 10, 2010 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Nene is a very very good player
he is a good defender, efficient scorer and a good rebounder. Nene has a better all round game that Biedrins and would get more minutes than Biedrins. With that being said Denver knows that they have a really good player in Nene and would have to be idiots to trade him for Radmanovic and Wright.
Nene has a better all round game that Biedrins
My interpretation of this is more or less: “Nene has a wider variety of skills”. I’m really curious what skills you think Nene has that Biedrins doesn’t….
by Missing Barry on Sep 13, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh, offense besides put-backs
Nene is also healthy.
I think you guys are really overestimating what other C’s can do around the league. Grass is greener kinda thing. The funny thing is, that “offense besides put-backs” lead to Nene scoring 14.8 points per 36 last year, and 14.6 for his career. Biedrins last two healthy seasons he put up 13.8 and 14.2. So yeah, sure, Nene scores a bit more, but it’s a pretty small amount. There really aren’t many C’s out there with legitimate assortment of skills, especially offensive ones.
by Missing Barry on Sep 15, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
And then you consider Nene's been around 8 rebounds per 36
And Andris just blows him out of the water in that regard.
REPLY TO DONUT
by GovernorStephCurry on Sep 15, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
theres no way denver would do that
god i hate the espn trade machine its responsible for some of the most theoretical lopsided trades on the internet
by mekanikal on Sep 11, 2010 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s a tool to make terrible trades and somehow justify them. Almost as annoying are the posts where there is no attempt to even say what the trade is, just a link to the trade machine. If someone cannot be bothered to type the names of the players that they are swapping in their bogus trade, it’s real, real rare that enough thought went into to justify clicking on the link. A blanket ban on post based on the “trade machine” is too severe, but I’m all for deleting posts where you have to go to ESPN’s site to figure out what the stupid proposal was.
Not too sure about that trade in a nice way but
i do like that you adrdress our need for contrast at the Center position.
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