SB Nation Bay Area Editor's Pick
Keith Smart is a terrible coach
clippers game: the warriors made their best in the 2nd qtr and got the lead when udoh, amundson, radmanovic, ellis, and reggie in the lineup. the 3 bigs weren't a factor offensively, but the warriors got the lead thanks to their defense. smart will never realize that it is his bench players and defensive players that either bring him back in the game or get them the lead. if i recall, udoh was his usual blocking shots, grabbing boards, and altering shots, and has the best +/- of any warrior again, at +5. why oh why did he get only 12 mins? and why oh why did he get pulled out of the game when the warriors got the lead and he was doing so well? f--- you smart
lakers game: i didn't watch the game in full depth, but why did udoh get 0 minutes against the lakers bigs? lee is not going to be able to defend gasol, bynum, or odom at all, he got torched by ike diogu on sunday! i think smart put in gadzuric because he was a "veteran" but come on, live up to your name, smart!
udoh is just one example of smart's poor coaching. besides that he's always favoring his starters to close out games too. just because they are a starter does that mean they have to close out games?? put in the best lineup during the game that will get you the win smart!
===================================
well if our overpaid lee and biedrins rebounded like they were paid to do, we would have had a much better shot at winning. amundson can grab some boards, blocks, and play good defense with his energy and hustle. udoh can grab boards, blocks, and alter shots. i would have much rather seen udoh on gasol than david lee on gasol. it's a no brainer, and the coach needs to stop looking at his "starters" and make the appropriate in-game adjustment and do some real coaching and exploit matchups - which was how nellie was successful - he would have baron post up against smaller guards in certain games, he took out the soft dunleavy and started a physical player journeyman barnes over him. smart has a tendency to put in his "starting 5" to close out the 2nd and 4th qtrs - there is no golden rule saying that you have to put your starting 5 to close out games - why not put in the best players who played well that game. cripes.
i don't think biedrins lost his nose for the ball. it is clear that he only "plays" when he decides to, as in the memphis game when he got 27/20. watching the lakers game, you see him make silly and lazy and-1 fouls again - i can't stand continually seeing this from him. he is so soft and has no defensive presence at all. udoh is already better than him defensively and offensively. offensively udoh can hit shots all the way to the ft line, and udoh has smooth ft forms. i would start udoh over biedrins. relegate biedrins to the bench in order light a fire under his asss, and make him win his starting job again - that is what real coaches do.
and yes, we need to get our pf's and centers involved more. what the heck does smart have against the pick n roll? the pick n roll is lee's bread and butter and the reason how he averaged 20 ppg on the knicks last year. i ALWAYS see lee have the ball in the post on an iso, he backs his guy in, and it bounces off his foot for a turnover. lee has no post game whatsoever, he needs the ball on a pick and roll for crying out loud!
get this smart guy outta here! jeff van gundy please. let's get some real defense, not the gambling-i'm-gonna-try-and-get-away-with-it-swipe-it-lazy-fouls and if-the-refs-call-it-i'm-gonna-yell-back .... that is just a bad example to the crowd. let's play some real disciplined defense and stay in front of our man!
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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you are right on
he is nowhere near ready to coach an nba team.
It's just a plant, it grows in the earth, and if you happen to set it on fire there are some effects...
OMG fire Smart ! I hate him!

"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
by dubzfan on Jan 13, 2011 2:14 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
wait, I think I saw the horse twitch
keep punching!
"You're not going to ask a center to create his own shot, so it's on us."
-Radmanovic on Beans' lack of offense
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 13, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
Monta
About to be topic on Around the Horn….check it out!!!
Shut up, just shut up. You had me at "cure for Cohan".
+1
I wanna know what they said about him on Nat’l media
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
It was about whether or not he should be an All-Star. Blackistone had already been eliminated, Cowlinshaw says he should be, McMullan and Adande say he should not be. McMullan says it’s because of the other guards that would be ahead of him (Ginobli, Williams, Kobe, CP3, Westbrook) and Adande said it’s because he isn’t on a winning team.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 13, 2011 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
thanks for the details
I gotta agree
As good as Monta has been playing, he is still (rightfully IMHO) behind Ginobli, Williams, Kobe, CP3, Westbrook
And sad as it is to admit, the fact that Monta is on a losing team is definately a knock on him (at least as far as getting an all-star nod goes)
"You're not going to ask a center to create his own shot, so it's on us."
-Radmanovic on Beans' lack of offense
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 13, 2011 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
I hate when people eliminate someone cause of the team he is on
That is not what the AS game is about, its about the leagues most talented players not most talented teams. It’s a team sport, winning a losing is not based on 1 guy. But there is a double standard for certain players, how did Kaman make it last year?
But still, it’s not in the spirit of the game to think about a team record for a player selection . Monta has been more dominant than Manu, Westbrook and Nash this year and IMO there is no way those 3 are better than him. Even if you think they are it’s the AS game , you want entertaining players (Kaman is not) to play. Manu isn’t really entertaining
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
by dubzfan on Jan 13, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
On the one hand I agree with you. On the other hand, given how big of an effect a true star has on his team winning, I think it’s fair to some degree. If your team isn’t good, there’s a pretty good chance some of it has to do with the fact that you’re not that good as a player.
by Missing Barry on Jan 13, 2011 6:47 PM PST up reply actions
And don't you think it's a bit ridiculous
that he thinks Monta’s been better than Manu or Nash?
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 13, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
Manu, Westbrook and Nash this year and IMO there is no way those 3 are better than him
Manu is definitely better than Monta, he is better at pretty much everything… scoring, passing, rebounding, defending. Which isn’t a knock on Monta, Ginobli is just really good.
Not scoring
Monta is a rare breed of scorer
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
in terms of efficiency
he’s really not “rare”
I think what you meant, and correct me if I’m wrong about this, is that Monta’s ability to knife between bigger players and get to the rim in a way that looks really cool, even when he doesn’t hit the shot, makes him fun to watch, if you don’t care that he doesn’t make the shots as often as some other players who are more efficient.
Is that what you meant to say?
TS% says Manu is much better. 60.8% is much better than Monta’s 55.6%.
If you don’t like TS%, Manu is better at eFG%: 53.7% to Monta’s 51.5%.
and let's say this, 55.6 is not bad - it's pretty good
it’s better than what he did last year. But it’s not “elite”.
I could live with Ellis’ shooting, however, if he were a better defender.
no, i wasn't criticizing you
just heading off the inevitable “Monte rulez” comeback by the usual suspects
I think there is a difference between efficiency and how prolific someone is
Consider that Monta’s usage is higher
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Is the difference of usage really that big?
Is it bigger than the difference of efficiency between Ginobili and Ellis?
I have no problem saying that Ginobili would still be more efficient, if he had Monta’s usage.
FWIW, when Ginobili had the highest usage in his career at 28.7% (at age 30) he posted a career high TS of 61%. Monta’s usage is at 28.1%.
There is a difference
in most cases, efficiency matters more than ppg.
From a stats perspective, Ginobili’s scoring is better than Monta’s. Ginobili scores at a high volume (leads his team) and scores at an elite efficiency. Monta scores at a high volume (leads his team) and scores at a good efficiency. Monta’s scoring is good, but Ginobili’s is better, especially when you account for minutes and pace. Monta has a USG% of 28.10 compared to Ginobili’s 25.68. That’s very close.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 13, 2011 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
Not by a lot.
Certainly I’d be interested in seeing what a coach like Popovich – who always seems to put players in a position to succeed – would do with Monta.
Manu has the advantage of a more clearly-define role. On the other hand, he plays within himself and scores nearly as much.
This got me thinking...
Pop might turn him into Jason Terry 2.0. He could still play 30 minutes per night, but he’d be matched up defensively against lesser opponents for the most part, and he could play alongside a pure ballhandler point guard.
The other possibility is that it doesn’t really matter how you use Monta, because unless he has a “Baron-esque” PG to play next to, he won’t be as successful as he could be.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I really do think Manu is sort of the best-case scenario for Monta.
But the main thing he needs is a coach he respects who’s willing to get him to stop taking dumb shots and trust in the team offense. Unfortunately, there aren’t a ton of coaches like that.
Monta scores 22.4 points per 36 minutes played. Manu scores 21.7 points per 36 minutes played….
by Missing Barry on Jan 14, 2011 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
A wing that scores ~22 points per 36 minutes really isn’t nearly as rare as you seem to think….
by Missing Barry on Jan 14, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
But the way he does it
And how skilled he is is very rare
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
but
it doesn’t give GREAT results. It gives good results.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 14, 2011 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
I’m curious – do you think the method used for achieving a set of results matters, so long as the results are a constant? Is the way Monta does it more benefitial to the team?
As for how “skilled” Monta is, is he that skilled? Sure, he does some stuff that Derrick Rose and only a few other people can do. But it’s not like he’s an amazing shooter or anything (though he has improved), his ball handling is still weak, his rebounding and defense aren’t anything to write home about, he doesn’t have amazing vision/passing skills….how skilled is he, really? Point worth noting: I’m not answering that question myself…
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Being able to score in almost every single way is skill
Or at least half of it and the other half pure talent
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Well, in Monta’s case, a lot of it is straight athleticism and explosiveness. Being able to play offense like Steve Nash…now that’s skill.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Rephrase to talent then
Better?
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I don’t understand why everyone thinks Manu is such a boring player. I love watching him cut across the lane with that little baby hook. It’s just the flopping that’s annoying.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jan 14, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He's a company guy...
the worst part is the Clippers are coming to town, and will pound the Warriors again on Friday. All of a sudden, they are pulling it together…Udoh should start over Andris for a few games and see where it goes…
Agreed
At the very least it’ll send Andris a message
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Do you think Andris needs to be sent a message?
What message do you want to send him do you think he doesn’t already know?
You’re not getting it done? You think he doesn’t hear that from the coach? (egads, I mean, I already think Smart is a lousy coach. If he can’t get that one right he’s one of the worst coaches in the history of the league).
You think he doesn’t know?
He needs to get himself mentally sorted out. Saying it’s about “heart” or “desire” or “sending him a message” is silly.
What message does he know?
Even if they told him to kick his butt into gear he still looks lazy and doesn’t care about the game. I don’t think he takes the message seriously
" Andris play better or be benched!"
“Okay coach (rolls eyes), they won’t do that to me….”
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Again "Takes the message seriously"
In other words, you think that is Andris just somehow decided to be better, he’d be better.
andris needs confidence
I agree with this. Andris just lacks confidence right now. It’s a correctable situation. I’s not necessary to try and send a message to player who already knows what is wrong. Lack of effort isn’t andris’ problem.
So now we’re complaining when Smart doesn’t play the bench guys, in addition to when he does play them? I wonder if our starting lineup’s +/- is still among the league leaders, as it was earlier this season…
the short answer is "no", we're not - we're about 24th for units with greater than 120 minutes
TEAM UNIT Adjusted +/-
LAL Fisher, Derek – Bryant, Kobe – Artest, Ron – Gasol, Pau – Bynum, Andrew (unit) 24.28
DAL Kidd, Jason – Stevenson, DeShawn – Butler, Caron – Nowitzki, Dirk – Chandler, Tyson (unit) 23.38
BOS Rondo, Rajon – Allen, Ray – Pierce, Paul – Garnett, Kevin – O’Neal, Shaquille (unit) 21.68
MIA Arroyo, Carlos – Wade, Dwyane – James, LeBron – Bosh, Chris – Anthony, Joel (unit) 16.56
LAL Blake, Steve – Brown, Shannon – Barnes, Matt – Odom, Lamar – Gasol, Pau (unit) 16.34
BOS Rondo, Rajon – Allen, Ray – Pierce, Paul – Davis, Glen – Garnett, Kevin (unit) 15.12
DAL Kidd, Jason – Terry, Jason – Butler, Caron – Nowitzki, Dirk – Chandler, Tyson (unit) 12.91
ATL Bibby, Mike – Crawford, Jamal – Johnson, Joe – Smith, Josh – Horford, Al (unit) 12.02
MIA Arroyo, Carlos – Wade, Dwyane – James, LeBron – Bosh, Chris – Ilgauskas, Zydrunas (unit) 10
PHI Holiday, Jrue – Meeks, Jodie – Iguodala, Andre – Brand, Elton – Hawes, Spencer (unit) 9.17
HOU Lowry, Kyle – Martin, Kevin – Battier, Shane – Scola, Luis – Miller, Brad (unit) 8.82
LAC Davis, Baron – Gordon, Eric – Gomes, Ryan – Griffin, Blake – Jordan, DeAndre (unit) 8.2
MEM Conley, Mike – Allen, Tony – Gay, Rudy – Randolph, Zach – Gasol, Marc (unit) 7.55
POR Miller, Andre – Roy, Brandon – Matthews, Wes – Aldridge, LaMarcus – Camby, Marcus (unit) 7.17
IND Collison, Darren – Dunleavy, Mike – Granger, Danny – McRoberts, Josh – Hibbert, Roy (unit) 6.9
SAS Parker, Tony – Ginobili, Manu – Jefferson, Richard – Blair, DeJuan – Duncan, Tim (unit) 6.56
CHI Rose, Derrick – Bogans, Keith – Deng, Luol – Boozer, Carlos – Noah, Joakim (unit) 6.27
ATL Bibby, Mike – Johnson, Joe – Smith, Josh – Horford, Al – Collins, Jason (unit) 6.23
DAL Barea, Jose – Terry, Jason – Marion, Shawn – Nowitzki, Dirk – Haywood, Brendan (unit) 5.41
CHI Rose, Derrick – Bogans, Keith – Deng, Luol – Thomas, Kurt – Boozer, Carlos (unit) 5.4
LAL Fisher, Derek – Bryant, Kobe – Artest, Ron – Odom, Lamar – Gasol, Pau (unit) 5.36
NYK Felton, Raymond – Fields, Landry – Chandler, Wilson – Gallinari, Danilo – Stoudemire, Amare (unit) 4.84
OKC Westbrook, Russell – Sefolosha, Thabo – Durant, Kevin – Green, Jeff – Ibaka, Serge (unit) 4.04
GSW Curry, Stephen – Ellis, Monta – Wright, Dorell – Lee, David – Biedrins, Andris (unit) 3.73
arg!
this is why it is so hard to be a well-informed Dubs fan!
some teams have like 3 different lineups that are ranked ahead of us…ouch
"You're not going to ask a center to create his own shot, so it's on us."
-Radmanovic on Beans' lack of offense
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 13, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
Quite a few that I wouldn’t have expected too…
LAL Blake, Steve – Brown, Shannon – Barnes, Matt – Odom, Lamar – Gasol, Pau (unit) 16.34
PHI Holiday, Jrue – Meeks, Jodie – Iguodala, Andre – Brand, Elton – Hawes, Spencer (unit) 9.17
DAL Barea, Jose – Terry, Jason – Marion, Shawn – Nowitzki, Dirk – Haywood, Brendan (unit) 5.41
MEM Conley, Mike – Allen, Tony – Gay, Rudy – Randolph, Zach – Gasol, Marc (unit) 7.55
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 13, 2011 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
Memphis is a team kind of like ours
they have good starters, but no bench players.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 13, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
Hopefully Lee starts playing like he should.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 13, 2011 10:50 PM PST up reply actions
Tony Allen starts? I thought they were starting Xavier Henry.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 14, 2011 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
nah
I think these are just rating for when the same 5 guys are on the floor, not starters
if it was starters, then the Lakers must’ve been having some SERIOUS injury problems!
LAL Blake, Steve – Brown, Shannon – Barnes, Matt – Odom, Lamar – Gasol, Pau (unit)
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 14, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
They don't have a quality 2 really
Allen is their best 2. He’s started a handful of games, though.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 14, 2011 6:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah the Philidelphia one really surprises me
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jan 14, 2011 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
We’re also talking about pretty small samples here, so I wouldn’t be too surprised by anything…
by Missing Barry on Jan 14, 2011 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
15th in overall +/- (unadjusted)
RANK TEAM UNIT +/-
1 LAL Fisher, Derek – Bryant, Kobe – Artest, Ron – Gasol, Pau – Bynum, Andrew (unit) 27.13
2 DAL Kidd, Jason – Stevenson, DeShawn – Butler, Caron – Nowitzki, Dirk – Chandler, Tyson (unit) 24.18
3 LAL Blake, Steve – Brown, Shannon – Barnes, Matt – Odom, Lamar – Gasol, Pau (unit) 23.29
4 BOS Rondo, Rajon – Allen, Ray – Pierce, Paul – Garnett, Kevin – O’Neal, Shaquille (unit) 21.83
5 MIA Arroyo, Carlos – Wade, Dwyane – James, LeBron – Bosh, Chris – Anthony, Joel (unit) 18.72
6 DAL Kidd, Jason – Terry, Jason – Butler, Caron – Nowitzki, Dirk – Chandler, Tyson (unit) 16.4
7 IND Collison, Darren – Dunleavy, Mike – Granger, Danny – McRoberts, Josh – Hibbert, Roy (unit) 15.02
8 BOS Rondo, Rajon – Allen, Ray – Pierce, Paul – Davis, Glen – Garnett, Kevin (unit) 14.64
9 CHI Rose, Derrick – Bogans, Keith – Deng, Luol – Thomas, Kurt – Boozer, Carlos (unit) 13.12
10 LAL Fisher, Derek – Bryant, Kobe – Artest, Ron – Odom, Lamar – Gasol, Pau (unit) 13.06
11 HOU Lowry, Kyle – Martin, Kevin – Battier, Shane – Scola, Luis – Miller, Brad (unit) 12.48
12 MIA Arroyo, Carlos – Wade, Dwyane – James, LeBron – Bosh, Chris – Ilgauskas, Zydrunas (unit) 12.33
13 ATL Bibby, Mike – Crawford, Jamal – Johnson, Joe – Smith, Josh – Horford, Al (unit) 11.36
14 ATL Bibby, Mike – Johnson, Joe – Smith, Josh – Horford, Al – Collins, Jason (unit) 11.01
15 GSW Curry, Stephen – Ellis, Monta – Wright, Dorell – Lee, David – Biedrins, Andris (unit) 10.82
16 PHI Holiday, Jrue – Meeks, Jodie – Iguodala, Andre – Brand, Elton – Hawes, Spencer (unit) 10.27
17 SAS Parker, Tony – Ginobili, Manu – Jefferson, Richard – Blair, DeJuan – Duncan, Tim (unit) 8.82
18 NYK Felton, Raymond – Fields, Landry – Chandler, Wilson – Gallinari, Danilo – Stoudemire, Amare (unit) 8.72
19 MEM Conley, Mike – Allen, Tony – Gay, Rudy – Randolph, Zach – Gasol, Marc (unit) 8.64
20 DAL Barea, Jose – Terry, Jason – Marion, Shawn – Nowitzki, Dirk – Haywood, Brendan (unit) 7.94
21 CHI Rose, Derrick – Bogans, Keith – Deng, Luol – Boozer, Carlos – Noah, Joakim (unit) 7.45
22 PHX Nash, Steve – Richardson, Jason – Hill, Grant – Turkoglu, Hedo – Frye, Channing (unit) 7.35
23 LAC Davis, Baron – Gordon, Eric – Gomes, Ryan – Griffin, Blake – Jordan, DeAndre (unit) 5.82
24 ATL Bibby, Mike – Johnson, Joe – Williams, Marvin – Smith, Josh – Horford, Al (unit) 5.54
25 POR Miller, Andre – Roy, Brandon – Matthews, Wes – Aldridge, LaMarcus – Camby, Marcus (unit) 4.89
26 HOU Lowry, Kyle – Martin, Kevin – Battier, Shane – Scola, Luis – Hayes, Chuck (unit) 4.88
27 CHI Rose, Derrick – Bogans, Keith – Deng, Luol – Gibson, Taj – Noah, Joakim (unit) 4.8
28 MEM Conley, Mike – Mayo, O.J. – Gay, Rudy – Randolph, Zach – Gasol, Marc (unit) 4.46
29 POR Miller, Andre – Roy, Brandon – Batum, Nicolas – Aldridge, LaMarcus – Camby, Marcus (unit) 4.3
30 OKC Westbrook, Russell – Sefolosha, Thabo – Durant, Kevin – Green, Jeff – Ibaka, Serge (unit) 3.96
Well that’s pretty good. But damn, how about those Pacers?
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jan 14, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
So now we are at the point where everyone we have is worthless.
That even a rookie with 10 games of NBA experience is much more able to hold his own against Bynum and Gasol, and not have his head handed to him, than an NBA player with 5 years of experience. You do have to be mindful of destroying a young rookie’s confidence by playing him against the top competition. In an interview last night,, Udoh himself thought better of it.
I will go with you about using the P&R with Lee. Smart hasn’t been at all innovative. I tend to think he’ll be gone in the off season, anyway.That’s why i think we’d be better off if we didn’t make the playoffs.
by War Years Legacy on Jan 13, 2011 3:27 PM PST reply actions
nice strawmen
all I’ve said (and heard other people say) is that Vlad/Gad should not be first options off the bench
where was Lou? Udoh? B. Wright? All those should be coming in before Vlad/Gad.
That’s b.s. about “rookie’s confidence” – Udoh played well against top competition already. Clips played Bledsoe and Aminu (not to mention Blake) against Miami and won.
No excuses.
Vlad
where was Lou? Udoh? B. Wright? All those should be coming in before Vlad/Gad.
has been one of our (if not the) most solid bench players this year
Not sure I agree with it, but it seems like Smart has really commited to letting the starting 5 develop together
still….c’mon, really; can’t even get 5 or 10 minutes for ONE of those guys?
"You're not going to ask a center to create his own shot, so it's on us."
-Radmanovic on Beans' lack of offense
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 13, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
Evans- Are you "Warriors Rule"?
Because I’ve made no specific comment to anything you’ve said. What I was commenting on was this statement.
" i would start Udoh over biedrins"
I think starting Udoh against the Lakers would be the most challenging start a young inexperienced front court player could have, the Heat included.e. If you think that’s b’s. you’re entitled to your opinion. Udoh said himself, after the game, " The NBA game is so crazy, it’s such a great game. I just don’t think I’d be ready to hop in at that position yet" I think that show good judgment on his part. But his saying.that is no reason not to start him.
Udoh has certainly become the new panacea for the Warriors ills. I’ve seen 2 articles in the last couple of days expressing hope that Udoh will become our permanent starting center. I’ve seen little evidence ( rebound or scoring wise ) that Udoh is an NBA center, but I do see him as good defending PF.. I hope I’m wrong, but it’s hardly worth yanking nose hairs about. at this early stage.
If you read, I say nothing about Smart’s use of the bench, or the order that he used his bench. You must have read another post. I think he could have used another couple of players.
How a first rate organization like the Clippersplay their bench is of no concen to me. But if I had their young talent and their record. I’d be giving those guys a chance to play.
by War Years Legacy on Jan 13, 2011 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Good Question
I suppose outside of the example I was referring to, it’s not clear.
Right now, it has surfaced in my mind with a number of negative posts, some of them involving trades and trade value.
Right now, I think we are tending to discount any trade value we have except for Curry and Monta. People are downplaying Lee as total crap. I think he will get his stats up nearer to his career. averages by seasons end. True, His defense is even worse than most of us thought.
With Biedrins it’s tricky, Biedrins was once a top 10 center, ( ok, barely ) but If a team needs a primary rebounder , and a decent defender, (when you keep in mind, very few center do all the things everyone would like a good center to do.) then Biedrins could be valuable. I worry about holding on to Biedrins, because I fear his offensive paralysis will get worse, and what value he has, ( of that I’m not sure ) will be lost. I feel if he becomes a 60 % free thrower again, and does end up renewing his offensive game to previous levels, it won’t be with us.
I think it’s good to keep in mind that other accomplished players on other boards, maybe Granger, Gasol are also being devalued by their posters. Not that I think we have a real chance of getting either of them.
by War Years Legacy on Jan 13, 2011 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
It's the author of this post.
Who I was responding to.
by War Years Legacy on Jan 13, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Why not with the Warriors
I don’t understand the argument that Biedrins can’t or won’t resurrect his proficiency with the Warriors. If he’s able to do so I don’t see why the Warriors are incapable of getting that out of him. Here is the problem I see with Biedrins, he’s an ideal back up center and a mediocre starting center. The Warriors are paying him starting center money which brings down his trade value. To me he is the position on the floor for the Warriors where they need a significant upgrade. If Lee is going to be the power forward then they need a center who can score 1 on 1 in the post, rebound, play above average D and block shots. Unfortunately this, and a dynamic point guard, are the hardest players to acquire in the NBA. Right now I don’t see the Warriors being able to get that type of player who would be a significant upgrade. So the best course of action is to give Biedrins the remainder of this year to get his game back and hopefully increase is trade value.
by J-Walk on Jan 14, 2011 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Vlad should share minutes with Dorell....
Why is he playing power forward with Lee at center? Stupid.
I will state right now that Udoh has more offensive game than Andris.
I agree 100% on no more Vlad at Power Forward
Last night the Lakers offense at the beginning of the 4th quarter , while Kobe was resting, was basically the first guy with the ball simply hit the rim then one of their big guys rebound the miss and lay it in. During this 26-8 rebounding mess with Vlad at Power Forward. I am yelling at Smart to put in some size (Udoh, Admondson, B Wright, Gadz, etc) and some Laker fan turns around and starts laughing saying “You guys don’t have anybody”. I was thinking they drafted Udoh and signed Admondson just to prevent nights like this and the coach doesn’t even play them. I am so glad Lakers don’t come back for over 2 months.
by Mullin4HOF on Jan 13, 2011 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
we as fans need to yell at smart during the games and demand some size. this is ridiculous.
i have not bought any tix this year (still transition from my cohan era), but i am really tempted to get tix soon, so that i can just yell at smart all day
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 14, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
Smarts rotations blow my mind
He is an awful coach…
Can we trade a package of any of these players for a good center?
Andris + Gadz + Rad + Bell + Law + BWright + Smart + Reggie
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
btw, Lee wasn't that bad on Gasol...but our Center position, who should help weakside defend SUCKED
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Brian Shaw please!
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Biggest GSW fan in NY!
GM: Kevin Prichard
Coach: Brian Shaw
Warriors the best team in 2K11!!!
..............SC30..............
by GSW9 on Jan 13, 2011 4:25 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
i would rather have jeff van gundy
because he stresses defense.
shaw would try to impose a triangle offense, and curry would look even worse than he does right now in smart’s system (he looked fantastic in nellie’s system). did anyone see how jonny flynn “flopped” in minnesota’s triangle offense with kurt rambis? that’s how curry would look. put flynn in nellie’s offense, and he would have looked like a great pick.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 14, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, I'll take vanGundy too
the only problem is that he’s retired
I guess I’m going Mike Brown ? yuck
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 14, 2011 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
biedrin's first foul against the lakers still flabbergasts me
he went to cut off derek fisher driving baseline… you can’t do that unless you’re trying to draw a charge, which begs the question: why the hell are you trying to draw a charge from derek fisher?
Goal: 8 seed!
The Legendary Keith Smart:
His rhetoric during interviews remains shallow; not much facts but mainly him blabbing. Rotations have been so overwhelmingly pathetic throughout this year (and last, when he subbed for Nellie) that Nellie might have been a better option. That’s scary. Everyone talks about how theirs more defensive accountability, while the defense is just as bad as it was before. We have more defensive talent yet he’s getting the same results as Nellie did with George and Tolliver at center. He’s running Monta Ellis into the ground, resting our best or 2nd best player Steph Curry for 10 minute periods at a time. He was supposed to have reigned in Monta’s shot selection. Monta’s shot selection hasn’t improved at all, he’s just become a better shooter.
He uses Reggie in a way not conductive to success. Reggie thrives with good amount of minutes, and a good amount of touches. He’s been stripped of PT for no apparent reason (other than Keith Smart’s delusions) and has a lesser role in the offense. Curry’s become the SG, Ellis the PG. No explanation why. Lee and Biedrins are being used as post-up players instead of pick and roll machines.
Acie Law is his new favorite scrub who he will play over the better player. Vlad was the first. And Vlad still gets more minutes than Udoh, Brandan, and Lou. Pathetic, considering most of the minutes come at the 4/5 where Vlad is useless. Brandan Wright can do no right with this coach. No good young big can impress Keith Smart. He’s shown he thinks players like Vlad, Mikki Moore, and Gadzuric are better than AR, BW, and Udoh. A legendary talent evaluator in his own right.
Punitive benchings for Curry consistently go on, when Ellis commits similar mistakes. No pick and rolls are to be found. 1 on 5 Monta ball is still the offense. Always adjusting to the other coach and never doing vice versa. Micromanaging certain players because of his own illogical fallacies. Blaming the offense’s struggles (relatively speaking, we’re underachieving quite a bit) on Morrow’s departure. Not complaining against the refs in Miami at all. Complaining when the officiating is good, and his inept coaching is killing us.
Did i mention everyone on the team besides Monta is significantly underachieving? Who’s to blame for all these problems? Keith Smart, probably the worst coach in the entire NBA.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 13, 2011 7:10 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
great post.
I wish Lacob would read this, please email him this….seriously. This is exactly what I thought, even before we made him our coach. It was very apparent in his limited time as coach during the Nellie era that he was a FAR worse coach than Nellie.
People keep giving him credit on a better locker room, but most of the credit should go to the players (Monta/Curry/Wright/Lee).
If only we could get Shaw or VanGundy…I would be happy with Nellie at this point, we’d definitely be winning more games at least.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 13, 2011 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well his ideas on Mikki last year were troubling.
And his rotations were really bad, but there’s no way we could have expected it to be this bad.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 13, 2011 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
Stop emailing Lacon
It’s not some magical wishing well and he even said that he doesn’t want to keep getting emailed during the summer.
On Nellie is the same guy who benched AR for Mikki Moore, lets not forget how bad Nellie was
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
We actually talked about this at length awhile ago.
When Nellie returned to coach for Keith, Mikki’s minutes went dramatically down, and AR’s went up quite a bit.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 13, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't Mikki get hurt though?
Either way Nelie would impose small ball and insist on Maggette being a PF
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Yeah, Nellie kinda sucked too, but just not as much.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 14, 2011 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with the premise of your comment, Gov, but I take exception to this part:
Monta’s shot selection hasn’t improved at all, he’s just become a better shooter.
He takes far fewer “stop and pop” contested jumpers early in the shot clock than he used to. He also seems to have cut down on long 2’s. Granted, those are the worst shots in basketball, but his curtailing them, I think, qualifies as improved shot selection.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
On a per game basis
he’s taking 0.1 fewer long twos a game. On a per minute basis, it’s a wash (6.5 per 40). He takes slightly fewer shots early, but he takes more jumpers overall. He does take slightly more threes, though.
He still takes a lot of dumb-ish shots, but his shot selection is slightly better.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 14, 2011 6:44 PM PST up reply actions
I remember hearing that only a few coaches can add wins to a team, most have little impact, and a few are detriments to the team. I’m thinking Smart is holding us back.
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jan 14, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
If what you are saying is true.....
…then it would explain why Curry seems so “down in the dumps” this season.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 14, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
it's all confidence
keith smart has stripped him of that
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
not to mention we got rid of carney (one of our better defenders). that was an awful move. reggie williams is a huge defensive liability and carney should have been taking those minutes. not to mention carney should be our backup sf right now, not vlad
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 14, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Carney is horrible.
I’m not a fan of Radmanovic, but he’s better than Carney.
In an ideal world, however, neither of them would see the floor.
smart is all talk
he said no one would average more than 35 mins a game before the season started.
during the season he said he wanted to always have a traditional pf and c in the game at all times, and yet he puts vlad in at pf repeatedly. he claims sometimes that we don’t have the roster for it, but we have healthy bigs on the bench, just waiting to play.
the guy is a liar, all talk (like singletary), and needs to go.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 14, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
he plays Law over reggie because reggie is our worst defender, radmanovic is playing well, and monta is taking better shots. I suppose you didn’t recognise any of this and are completely unbiased because Stephs minutes are down probably because he’s been in foul trouble and taken a huge step backwards in defensive effort. But you can’t be objective about Steph, can you?
LOVE THIS POST
everything is just the truth
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
absolutely agree on these points:
Everyone talks about how theirs more defensive accountability, while the defense is just as bad as it was before. We have more defensive talent yet he’s getting the same results as Nellie did with George and Tolliver at center.
He’s running Monta Ellis into the ground,
resting our best or 2nd best player Steph Curry for 10 minute periods at a time.
He was supposed to have reigned in Monta’s shot selection. Monta’s shot selection hasn’t improved at all, he’s just become a better shooter.
He uses Reggie in a way not conductive to success. Reggie thrives with good amount of minutes, and a good amount of touches. He’s been stripped of PT and has a lesser role in the offense.
Lee and Biedrins are being used as post-up players instead of pick and roll machines.
Vlad still gets more minutes than Udoh, Brandan, and Lou. Pathetic, considering most of the minutes come at the 4/5 where Vlad is useless.
Brandan Wright can do no right with this coach. No good young big can impress Keith Smart. He’s shown he thinks players like Vlad, Mikki Moore, and Gadzuric are better than AR, BW, and Udoh. A legendary talent evaluator in his own right.
Punitive benchings for Curry consistently go on, when Ellis commits similar mistakes.
No pick and rolls are to be found. 1 on 5 Monta ball is still the offense.
Who’s to blame for all these problems? Keith Smart, probably the worst coach in the entire NBA.
=========
the only good thing i see from smart is his good relationship with players off the court, but who gives a f-, anyone can do that!
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 27, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
To be fair (according to hoopdata),
Monta is taking 6.7 jumpers from 16-23 feet and only hitting 37%. Last year he shot 6.8 of them and hit 37%.
I think that data would need to be parsed a little more to come to any conclusion. 16 feet is much better than 21, and were they contested, early in the shot clock, etc?
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I think that data would need to be parsed a little more to come to any conclusion.
I don’t think so. I don’t see how you can justify Monta taking so many of those shots and not hitting them. He shoots nearly as much Dirk Nowitzki, but Dirk shoots them at 53%.
The Warriors and Monta can get better shots than a 37% long 2 pointer.
to be fair most of those shots
are bail outs and Monta is our go to guy for that. But he does need to calm down with contested long range 2 pointers
by HerFavColor on Jan 14, 2011 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Uh
Monta takes 12% of his shots late in shot clocks. The team shoots 13% of its shots late, so Monta is close to the team average.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 14, 2011 6:45 PM PST up reply actions
This team is improving under Smart
We’re not rebounding/defending as well as we need to, but in general, I approve of Smart’s progress thus far. I guess I have logic/stupidity problems, huh?
by eshock on Jan 14, 2011 11:28 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Here's the thing about Keith.
As PMC noted in an article recently, he’s a good person, he works very hard, and the players like him. Keith Smart is very good at the small things coaches need that someone off the street like us could absolutely not do. We’d all be horrible NBA coaches most likely. Here’s the problem: His rotations are the worst in the NBA. It is unbelievably frustrating that the guy can be good on so many levels, then on something that seems pretty easy (you play the best players), he just doesn’t have the aptitude. And for that reason, and that reason alone, he’s a bad NBA coach. The author of this post called him terrible. Sure. I agree to an extent. His rotations are that bad. But lets not forget, the small things he’s doing aren’t completely miniscule. I don’t know how to evaluate professional coaches really. None of us do. The main thing we can evaluate are rotations, and plays. He sucks at this. So for the things we comprehend, he sucks. The things we don’t comprehend, he’s good.
Keith Smart’s holding this team back because of a lack of mental aptitude, not of a bad work ethic (ala Nellie). This is something you can’t really change. That’s why Keith’s probably never going to be a good coach. But can he be a really good assistant coach doing the small things he’s good at, and relinquishing duties to make rotations? Yes, absolutely. Hire a good coach, and offer Keith the assistant job again. He’s suited for it much better than his current role.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 14, 2011 11:40 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I just hope his decisions don't lead us to trading Curry
and thinking Monta is “the one”
that would be a crying shame
Illogical
First of all, are you blaming the head coach for the Curry’s sophomore slump? Here is the scenario you paint for Smart’s process…
You want to build your reputation as a head coach. So, you devalue your star player who helped your country win the world championship because you cosmetically herald and uplift another player. You figure that your new owners will retain you because of this strategy.
Here is a counter-argument. Coach Smart received a team that has Nellie principles but ends up playing non-fan-faves. He rewards the players that practice hard, learn their rotations, and minimize their mistakes. They don’t rely on athleticism and outside shooting, rather they let those opportunities come to them. He calls them Team Rejects. They call him not only the best coach they’ve ever played for, but the best human being they’ve ever encountered in life. Guv alluded to this quotation from Vlad yesterday.
Fans are impatient, they hate Monta, love Curry. They hate Vlad, love Udoh. They hate Gadz, love Lou. They hate Wright, love Wright. Then, when things shift they begrudgingly cheer for players who they thought were bums, or maintain their original position and just look for someone else to blame.
This season has been a positive step. Elite players don’t want to come here yet. crAZN fans might be the #1 asset as most NBA players could give a damn about culture, views, wine country. The title of this diary is unprofessional and reveals a level of frustration. The resulting comments reveal a lack of context for the job that Keith has been asked to do. Instill a hard-working, winning attitude. Led by a starting unit that emphasizes this.
by eshock on Jan 15, 2011 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
are you blaming the head coach for the Curry’s sophomore slump?
lol
What slump? Curry is shooting 57.5 TS% compared to 56.8% last season. His AST% is 29.6% compared to 24.6% last season. His TOV% is 15.3% compared to 16.5% last season. Even his STL% is up at 3.0% compared to 2.5% last season.
I’m guessing you’re going to say something along the lines, “Uh, your ‘advanced stats’ don’t mean anything. Just use your eyes!” sigh
by Evanz on Jan 15, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the reason for a perceived slump has more to do with trend than overall production. If you mapped out how Curry played by month over his career, I think you’d find he got better every month last year, but this year he has not maintained that high he ended on, let alone continue his upward climb. He is, however, playing above last years average.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
he hasn't maintained his high scoring average from the end of the season
because Monta has taken over the team.
It’s not just scoring, though, it’s his offense across the board. And while yes, Monta is doing a lot, he did a lot last year, too. Plus at least if it was just a usage thing we’d expect Steph’s turnovers to go down significantly too, right?
by Missing Barry on Jan 19, 2011 7:34 AM PST up reply actions
And yet his actual number of turnovers has gone up.
by Missing Barry on Jan 19, 2011 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
per36
3.0 last season to 3.1 this season.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Jan 20, 2011 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
He was at something like 2.6 in the last month of the season last year. Though he was at like 3.5 the two months before that.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
The last month of the season was a whole 8 games though
If you are comparing Curry these last couple months to last April, he hasn’t been bad at all assist and turnover wise. Just saying, it seems like people are only looking at those April games and saying Curry has really sucked this year.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Jan 20, 2011 8:32 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree, and that’s kind of what I’m getting at. He’s been better than last year, on average, but last year was a clear upward trend from month to month, and he hasn’t continued that trend or even maintained the peak he reached from the end of last year. I think that’s where the perception of him not being so good is from.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it's probably best we just fire him.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 15, 2011 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
Point made..over and over and over and over to infinity and beyond..........!
So howzabout lets dial it down untill the season is over and the owners hire a new coach.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 15, 2011 10:36 AM PST up reply actions
Did i criticize him much in there?
I thought i was giving him some praise.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 15, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Look back over all the fan posts and game threads and count the number of your negative Smart posts and then guess whether or not everyone has here received your message about Smart (and Monta as well)…….no need to remind us anymore. You have successfully completed your mission. Off you go…on to the next challenge…..purty please with sugar on it. ;-/
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 15, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
sorry,
over reaction. you should stop over-reacting too, author of this thread. Smart is a fine coach
by DubsDominate on Jan 15, 2011 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Why do you think that?
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 15, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Well he isn't
but we can all shut up about it because we all kinda know that.
It's biodigital jazz, man.
by Reverend_Randy on Jan 15, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
i didn't watch the game in full depth, but why did udoh get 0 minutes against the lakers bigs?
cause keith smart is a terrible coach apparently?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 18, 2011 2:57 PM PST reply actions
You've got it wrong.
Typically i won’t respond to post like this with such little contextual support but i don’t understand the hate for coach Smart among the GSoM community. I really thought we had more BB intelligence than the average fan(s).
It’s the average fan that hates the coach because of rotations. Some people here are acting no different than parents do in a kid’s league. Is it because their favorite player isn’t getting more play time?
Coaching ultimately boils down to wins and losses. So let’s jump to the point. How many games did you expect us to win? Let’s use Vegas as an unbiased gauge. They pegged our over under at 30 wins. Personally i thought if we got 35 wins that it would be a good year. We are one game from the halfway mark and we already have 17 wins. Keep in mind that we’ve had our share of injuries and played the most road games of any team in the league. Anything less than an A Grade for Coach Smart is disrespectful or just plain ignorant.
Now, let’s move on to the stuff most people don’t understand. How to keep a locker room in order:
Haven’t you heard the players all rave about Coach Smart? They all love him. They all respect him. They all are working for him and doing what he asks of them. That is not easy to achieve, ESPECIALLY with the ego’s in the NBA. You can’t just hand a rookie who missed training camp and just came back from an injury all the extra PT when you have vets that have been in the league for years battling for those minutes. Vets who have been working their ass off doing what coach has asked, trying to keep a job in this league. Do you even realize what this would do to our rookie.? He would be the outcast of the team. Everyone would hate Udoh and they would start to hate Coach Smart as well. Coach Smart is old school and runs his locker like it should be run. PT has to be earned, it’s not granted. Even though Udoh has done well in his minutes given, you don’t just hand over the full PT at once. You have to do it over time. His players respective and give him credit for their success. That should mean something to you as a fan.
So, let’s talk about player success/ development. Monta has returned to efficiency. D. Wright has been a revelation out of no where. Radmanovic is now shooting 43% from behind the 3pt line (which he has never done in his 9 year career). These guys are buying into the system, building their confidence, taking smart shots and succeeding like never before. You don’t think Smart has anything to do with this? You don’t think his flex offense is giving our starting 5 the flexibility to maximize their talents. We have 4 starters averaging 3 ast/ game or more. And, while I’d like to see some more PnR’s with both Lee and Biedrins it takes time to develop that chemistry and this is by at large a new team. We don’t have a “pure point guard” who has the ball in his hands all the time, while trying to break down the defense on his own with such plays. But even still, Biedrins has been tentative, he hasn’t been putting himself in position to score and Lee has been injured. Let’s give it time. My point is that the players are giving Coach Smart credit for their success and so should you.
I also don’t understand the problem with Curry’s PT. Personally i don’t care if Curry is getting extra rest. Law is doing a decent job, better than i expected and we are winning games. So if that helps keep Curry fresh and healthy, I’m all for it.
I’m seriously interested to know if any of the “Kieth Smart Haters” have ever coached basketball. I’ve never coached the NBA but i have coached a lot of basketball, I’ve officiated, I’ve done score keeping and I’ve played most my life. If you can’t see or appreciate what Smart has done this year, i really think there is something wrong with you, not him.
We don’t have a lot of Defensive talent on this team. Please consider that before you blame the coach. D. Wright is our only gifted defensive starter so we aren’t going to be a good defensive team with this line up but we have made an increased effort on defense and that should be credited to Coach Smart. That I can appreciate.
by Balance on Jan 18, 2011 8:16 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
you say we don't have defensive talent
but we play Vlad over Udoh? Vlad is an expiring contract who is not part of our future.
My real problem with Smart is that he is coaching this team as if it’s already a playoff contender, when it’s not. What we should be doing right now is building the team for the future. That means focusing on developing the young talent that we do have, even if it costs us some wins in the short term.
Maybe it’s not fair to blame Smart for this, as he probably needs to win as much as possible to keep his job. The idea to develop talent and build for the future needs to come from the top. Maybe that is not the current directive from Lacob and co.
by Evanz on Jan 19, 2011 6:33 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
The idea to develop talent and build for the future needs to come from the top. Maybe that is not the current directive from Lacob and co.
And here lies the conundrum. Lacob has already admitted that this team, as currently constructed, will struggle mightily for a playoff spot. However, he’s already stated that he expects at least 40 wins, and that a 10 win improvement (36) would not be acceptable.
Keith Smart therefore has a problem. If he plays young players who are in over their heads, he piles on losses and is out of a job. So therefore he plays the players who he thinks give this team the best chance of winning. I don’t know, what would anyone else do as a coach? Obviously you’d want to win now (especially if the owner says so), you’d want to develop long term players, and you want to keep your job. Coach Smart might be juggling incompatible goals here.
right, I said as much
Maybe it’s not fair to blame Smart for this, as he probably needs to win as much as possible to keep his job. The idea to develop talent and build for the future needs to come from the top. Maybe that is not the current directive from Lacob and co.
i never seen lacob say that. can you provide proof/link?
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 19, 2011 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I think you make good points about developing for the future but you’ll have a hard time find a coach to willing take losses for such a cause. These guys, like the players, are competitive too and hate lossing. Let’s assume that 100% of NBA coaches think there is another league for “development”. Oh, that and practice.
I do see your point though. I’m a fan of tanking to get a good draft pick because that seems like the easiest way to aquire a super star. I though we did a good job last year until the final 2 weeks, which probably cost us Demarcus Cousin.
see that game last night?
Warriors can actually get help from Wright, as myself and others have been saying for a while.
Now, if Smart lets Udoh and B. Wright form the second unit front court, instead of Vlad/Gad/Amundson, we’ll be rocking and rolling.
(I like Amundson, but maybe due to his injury, he hasn’t really been very productive.)
by Evanz on Jan 20, 2011 5:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yes, i saw the game but it seems like i am seeing diffent things from everyon else. It seems like everyone else is seeing Curry on the bench but i’m see Acie Law completely shut down Collison in the second half and we saw the trade off when curry was back in.
I saw Smart go with B.Wright and as he explained post game that he wanted Length and went with Wright because he didn’t have to guard a “back to the basket” player and was quik enough to be a help defender and get back on his man. That is smart coaching (pun intended). I appreciate this while others just say he needs more minutes. this is probably true but clearly his success is dependent on the right match up or situation. Koodo’s to Smart for knowing ths.
I saw Smart draw up great in bound plays and plays out of time outs. i saw him draw up a game winning shot for Monta and instruct our defense to guard the lob at the end of the game. http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/01/20/the-warriors-protect-against-a-late-lob/
Vlad is playing great right now, what’s your problem with him? Gad is a good defender in certain situations and Smart realy limits his PT otherwise. Again, whats the problem here.
Is this simply that you want to see your favorite player get more PT to maximize your entertainment value?
I find it kind of funny when someone calls that last shot by Monta a “play”. I mean, I’m sure Smart told the other 4 to stand “here, here, here and here”, but really, all it was was 4 players standing around while Monta tried to make something happen out of an iso…
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
did watch the post game with Smart? he put curry in one corner and Dorell in the other corner. Our best 3 pt shooters. If their defenders came to help on Monta, the play would be to make them pay. then he put our two bigs on the boxes so that when monta drove if they came to help, he could dump it off for an easy lay up. Sure it was isolation, but with options. it put the pressure on the defense to pick their posion. they choose to guard monta one on one and got burnt. Why can’t Smart get credit for that? How is that funny?
I’m seriouly getting tired of people bashing Coach smart out of ignorance. And i don’t intend to throw you into that group. just venting.
I still disagree that it's a good play.
Why not, instead of having our bigs hang out in the box, have Lee step out for a screen – make the defenders think. Or give it to Curry on one wing and hit Monta coming off a back screen. Then you’ve got some chaos and you’re creating lanes for Monta to get to the basket.
Ultimately, we won the game on that play because Monta hit a very difficult shot. Don’t make the mistake of thinking it was a well-designed play:
The purpose of a play is to get the offense a high percentage shot. Sometimes you get a high percentage shot and still miss – that doesn’t meant he play call was bad. Sometimes you get a low percentage shot and the player hits it anyway – that doesn’t make the play call good.
Monta won the game on a contested, leaning back, mid-range jumper. Awesome that he made it, but that’s not a shot he’s a favorite to make. That’s not a shot anyone is a favorite to make.
The problem with saying “well if the bigs doubled then there was an easy dump-off” is that Monta didn’t actually beat his man to draw the double. And this is par for the course: it’s very very hard to beat a set defender, even when you’re as quick as Monta.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 20, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m thinking instead of calling it a play, we say Smart was responsible for the spacing. That’s essentially what he did, right? I just really hate iso’s. Especially in end of quarter, end of game, game winner type situations. They’re the worst play in basketball. That it’s the end of the game doesn’t change that.
While I do hate iso’s in general, there is one situation they’re appropriate – when the defnender simply cannot defend his man. Maybe you get a switch and your lightning fast PG is being guarded by a C. Spread the court and let him iso. Definitely. Or you have a big man that can overpower his guy and get a good shot every time. Or you’re the Heat playing the Warriors and Curry/Ellis/Dorell are on the floor and you let either Wade/Lebron iso against whoever Curry/Ellis is guarding (the one not guarding the PG). Or you have Maggette being guarded by a PF. Iso’s are good for exploiting serious mismatches. That’s it. No other time. The rest of the time they’re extremely low percentage plays. That’s a major problem with using it in end of Q, end of game situations….you give it to your best player (be it Kobe, Monta or whoever else), but he goes against the other teams best wing defender. And of course the end result is Kobe shooting a crappy percentage in important situations (this is a true story). At the very least, run a pick and roll, you know?
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And there wasn't even any motion to confuse the defense.
You can watch – the video is up in a fanshot – how Lee’s man is in the perfect position to help if Monta beats his defender, and yet never has to leave Lee open. Even if you want Monta to iso, at least have the bigs screening for each other so the help defenders are working and are more likely to mistime their help.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 20, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i think you both made fair points but these things utimately boil down to did we the bucket or not. If we missed a higher percentage shot, i could play the same game where i critic the play and say there could’ve been a better option. I liked this but didn’t like that. etc.
To be honest i think Smart expected the help to come and then it would have been an entirely differnt situation. They were squezzing Ellis at the point of entry to the paint all night and he was probably suppose to drive to the rim, get a lay, foul or assist. But being the guy he is, he went Jordon on Indy and actually hit the shot.
That being said, i still think Coach Smart did draw up a “play”, it worked and hence he deserves credit for that in addition to the other things i’ve previously mentioned.
Ultimately -
- I think that you just described a really horrible process for evaluating decisions. You should be able to describe a decision and good or bad knowing only the decision and not the outcome – because the decision is, ultimately, independent of the outcome.
It’s like in poker. You have top pair. You’re bet into on the turn against a third player who you think has a flush draw. You raise. It’s the right play even if the river completes his flush – in the long run, you make money with that raise. In the long run, you win more basketball games by designing plays to get you better shots than contested mid-range jumpers.
If the coach draws up a good play, and the player doesn’t make it, that’s on the player.
To say that this was a good play call bceause Monta made a fantastic, low-percentage shot is madness. That’s a recipe for losing a lot of games.
Or, put it this way: Can you imagine Don Nelson in his prime having that be the play he called.
Also, let me point something else out: Because there was no motion, and the defense didn’t have to work, not only was Lee’s man in position to help if he needed to, but he was also in perfect position to box out Lee – and he knew exactly where Lee was to box him out – so that if Monta missed the shot, our chances of an offensive rebound were basically nonexistent.
Instead, if you just have the big men screening for each other, then the defenders are making tough choices. “Be the help guy? Guard my man? Focus on rebounding position?”
Poor play design allowed Lee’s defender to do all three at the same time.
Here’s an example of a good basketball play. Note how, if the defense plays it differently, Parker gets a good opportunity to drive to the basket. Instead, the defense keys on Parker to deny the drive, and the result is the highest percentage shot in basketball: a big man with good hands all alone under the basket. Too bad we don’t have any big men with good hands to do something like this with:
http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/01/13/a-beautiful-play-by-gregg-popovich-puts-the-game-away/
Oh, wait …
by Ronaldinho on Jan 20, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I saw that article, too. It was a very nice play, and great breakdown, though I really didn’t like their conclusion that it was essentially unguardable and guaranteed a layup and the definitely the best play of the year….
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
If it guaranteed a layup, they'd probably run it more often. :)
But I do think that the only way to cover Duncan on that is to give Parker a lane on the right.
There are a couple of things I see for a team to do. First, if Bogut never hedges to begin with, he’s obviously not going to be out of position on Duncan. I don’t like that strategy. Second strategy – notice how the second guy does not hedge. If he hedges effectively, he can disrupt the timing of the play. Try to stop Parker from being in a place to make the pass when Duncan is coming open under the hoop. Third – help defense. One of the wings can step into the passing lane and delay a pass to Duncan, hopefully long enough for Bogut to recover, but short enough so they can recover onto their own man. It is a nice play, though. Definitely not easy to defend if you don’t know it’s coming.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
We could play this game all day but it worked and that’s what matters as you say “over the long run” if all adds up to winning more than losing. Do you remember when Doyle Bronson won the WSOP going all in pre flop with a 3-7? Yes, i too play poker.
Have you ever coached basketball? Seriously? And, i’m not saying that your opinions aren’t then qualified, i’m just intrested?
Are they’re better plays? Maybe, but it worked so who cares? You can’t blame the coach when it works and it did work so you have to give Smart credit for calling a play that worked. That’s all i was gettig at.
Are there other option, better plays out there? Maybe, but he choice this play out of probably a whole lot of options and this one work. he picked the right one. that is the coaches responsibility. But, let’s not get too engulfed in one play of one game. This time it worked. If Smart continues to call plays that don’t work over the course of the year then we have a problem. But last night, he called a play that worked and he deserves credit for it. Don’t discredit him for that because you don’t like him, or get nit picky, and over critical.
I take into consideration that earlier in the game that Monta hit a very similar shot from the end of the FT line, also fading away. That is Monta’s style. He’s done that all year and he’s scoring fairly effeciently this year. Plus, I don’t think a mid range jumper from the FT line is a bad shot to take. He crossed his man over, and by the time Rush recovered the shot was out of his hands. Are you then blaming the fact that he fadded away on Smart?
Look, he designed a play to:
1) run down the clock (What would yo do? Instruct all 5 guys to start the play when the shot clock gets to X? He decided to keep it simple, eliminate possible mistakes or chances for things to go wrong, like D.Fisher did when he pulled Monta on top of him a few years ago and got the offensive foul; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou9TKwjMD3U )
2) used our players strength’s to our advantage, stretched the floor and put pressure on the defense to make a tough choice on how to guard the play.
3) got the ball into the hands of our best player, gave him the options, and let Monta make the decision.
Again, it worked. He may not call that same play next time, maybe you won’t like it either but chances are not everyone will. But, please be man enough to bestow credit where credit is do. That’s called good sportsmanship where i come from.
I am giving credit where credit is due:
I have praised Monta repeatedly for hitting a tough shot.
Credit is not due to Smart just because the shot went in. He was bailed out by Monta.
Yes, Monta hits those shots from time to time, but the simple truth is that those shots are not what makes Monta an efficient scorer. For the year Monta is hitting about 41% of shots at that range – and that includes a lot of shots where he is covered a lot less well than he was covered on that play.
Just saying Monta is an efficient scorer this year (which he is) doesn’t mean that he’s efficient on all the shots he takes. In fact, we have enough data to see that he’s very efficient on some shots, and not very efficient on others.
As for your numbered points:
1) Yes, you run down the clock, and then you have the players start to move into position. In fact, this is really simple – you ask if I’ve ever coached basketball, no, but I’ve played organized enough basketball to be a ballhandler on this exact play:
What happens if that an off-ball player’s movement starts the play. Rather than have Monta watch the clock and decide when to start driving, one of the wing players is watching the clock, and he runs in to set a screen and that starts the motion. This is basketball 101, and every well-coached high school and college has versions of that play. I remember practicing something to that effect as a freshman in high school!
2) He didn’t actually use our players strengths to our advantage. The defense didn’t have any tough choices to make. The guys on the wing stayed on their men. The help defenders were not asked to make tough decisions because they could easily cover both their responsibilities defensively man-on-man, their rebounding responsibilities, and their help responsibilities.
Again, watch the replay, and watch David Lee’s man. He does not have to make a “tough choice.” In fact, watch all of the defense. None of them are making any tough choices. Some of this is because Monta, without help, is unable to beat his man.
3) The problem is that you’re asking a player who isn’t a great decision-maker to make a decision. You’re putting a guy who’s great off-the-ball and asking him to make a play on-the-ball.
Monta deserves a lot of credit for making that jumper. Smart doesn’t deserve any.
That is just crappy team basketball.
Wow, you think Monta “bailed out” coach Smart? That is ridiculous. While the entire purpose of that play was to to give Monta the opportunity to get a good shot off if they didn’t double team him!! I don’t know what else to say if you can’t understand that Coach Smart helped him get that shot.
Now, for some crazy reason you don’t like that shot, which is another issue, all your own. I will take that shot all day. Smart designed a play that HELPED our best player get an open look from the freaking FT line to win the game. I have no problem with that at all.
If you think that was a good shot, you don't know squat about basketball.
It’s a midrange two, which is one of the worst shots in basketball. Monta shoots something like 42% on midrange twos – but of course most of his midrange twos doesn’t have him well-covered by a taller player, having to lean back to avoid getting the shot blocked.
(Monta’s more typical midrange too involves beating his man – usually because he’s getting the ball on the move against an un-set defense, then getting a step on his man, and pulling up to shoot before the help defender can arrive. That is a much, much better shot than a contested two with the defender in your face).
I suspect in those circumstances that’s an under 30% shot. Maybe much under 30%. If you would take that shot all day, you’d lose a ton of ballgames. Again – see last year’s Warriors.
It’s hard to say enough superlative things about Monta’s ability to get that shot off and make in under those circumstances. Most players would get that shot blocked, or have to loop the shot unnaturally high. You know I’m not a heap-a-ton-of-praise-on-Monta guy, but that shot deserves it.
If that was the shot that Smart wanted Monta to take, then he’s a worse coach than I possibly imagined. I suspect, rather, than Smart expected Monta to be able to beat his man to the lane. THis is dumb, since Monta actually isn’t particularly effective when he does that without help (see: last season). But if Monta can beat his man, good things can happen (a help pass to Lee, or a kick out to one of the three-pointers).
Monta can get that shot every single play he’s in the game. The problem is that it’s a bad shot – it’s a terrible shot. You asked if I ever coached basketball, this makes me want t ask you if you ever played: the way his body is contorted to avoid the block is not something you ever one to see, because it means that the player hasn’t actually beat his man.
But you admitted earlier that you consider the play-call fine because the outcome was good, which makes me wonder why I’m bothering. By that logic, you can’t criticize any play in a win. Curry’s foul for the and 1? Hey, it worked. Can’t criticize it. That’s nonsense.
a good shot is a shot that goes in.
It’s not the only way to measure the quality of the shot but it is the best. Reggie Millier didn’t have an orthodox form (he also often faded away and so do a ton of NBA players) but he was effective and results are always the bottome line. Stop trying to side step that.
The quallity of the shot is somewhat a different conversation than the play design because Monta had the liberty to choose that shot but the concept was effective. There are very few people who can guard Monta Ellis one on one and I will take that when we can get it. This was the essense of the play. Monta got HIS SHOT and Rush had a hell of a time trying to prevent that. His foot slipped and by the time he recovered Monta already squared his shoulders, elevated and was ready to release without any threat of being blocked or a help defender adding any pressure. This was all part of the isolation play Coach Smart drew up that assisted Monta getting to his spot. Monta had a clear match up advantage over Rush who simply didn’t have the speed to stop him. He required and got help defense all night.
So Smart called a play to take advantage of this match up. Monta had score 34 points prior to that shot at over 50% shooting. In the 4th qtr Monta was 1 for 4 in the paint and 4 for 7 on his jumper. Clearly his jumper was hitting last night at a rate way above 42 % and your fabricated/ estimated 30%.
Now, I prefer driving to the hoops where you can get a lay up or foul. But, Monta doesn’t do a good job getting to the line. Either way he got the shot HE wanted and Coach Smart’s design helped him get it. He put his confidence in his player and it worked. Credit to the Coach.
That wasn’t a bad play design because you found a better option online. Your example of a better play was the “the best set play of the season so far, and it really doesn’t have any challengers yet.” Come on man. That’s not fair. They also didn’t have to run down a clock.
“You can’t critize any plays in a win”. I never said that. Again, don’t put words in my mouth. See my points 1-3 of my previous post as to why i “consider the play call fine” as you’ve put it. That and the fact that it worked proved it was effective.
So here we are, you refuse to give Smart credit for an effective play call and you are comfortable over critizing the man when he’s due for respect. is this they type of guy you are?
I have played BB most my life, still do. I’ve coached, i’ve officiated, i’ve all kept the books and worked the score board. To your point, I wouldn’t take that shot and i’ve never coached a player with the ability to allow such but, Monta isn’t your average player or, NBA player either.
It’s not the only way to measure the quality of the shot but it is the best.
but what EVERYONE is trying to tell you is that the shot Monta took is not the type of shot that goes in regularly, not as much as other more efficient shots.
How do you not get that? And more importantly, how can you call yourself a coach with that kind of philosophy? Don’t you instruct your players on how to get good shots for themselves? I would think that’s like day 1 of coaching school after “how to dribble” and “how to pass”.
Well, if your logic is that a shot that goes in is a good shot, then I have nothing more to say to you.
That is a moronic way to think about the game.
That is not a shot Monta hits consistently this season. Period. If you think otherwise, you need to learn to watch the game more closely.
Regarding Don Nelson
“Can you imagine Don Nelson in his prime having that be the play he called.”
Please see Baron Davis vs. Celtics 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTvOswqcrPk
how are you going to side step this one?
See the movement along the baseline?
Big, big difference, even though the outcome is the same.
That being said, I don’t see 2008 as being Nelson’s prime, by about a decade.
To be fair, while midrange shots are inefficient, efficiency isn’t really what matters in this case. Any number of points wins us the game. So FG% (or getting to the line) is what matters. A midrange J is a better shot than a 3 in that situation, whereas normally it’s worse.
by Missing Barry on Jan 21, 2011 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Good point.
Nevertheless, I don’t see how anybody can look at that particular shot, with Monta having to do the lean-back thing to avoid the blocked shot, and say with a straight face, “That’s the shot I want the outcome of the game to depend on.”
Sometimes you’re forced into it. This wasn’t one of those times.
It was an open look from the FT line, that is Good shot. The fade away was Montas style. He is a rythm shooter! What part of his game has ever been text book fundemental? You should know this by now. He wasn’t off balance because he was fading and there was no potential block he was squared up and got a look.
Watch him tonight. He is usually moving to the left when he shoots the rhythm jumper.
If that was curry, it would be a different story. He has super fundamental shot form, almost always.
Again, our best player, who was having a good night shooting, got an open shot from the freaking FT line!
It was an open look from the FT line, that is Good shot.
You do not understand what the meaning of “open look” is.
If he was open, I wouldn’t have a problem with that shot at all. But he wasn’t. That is, in fact, pretty much the definition of a well-contested jumper.
He had a hand in his face. Are you blind?
That is not an open shot.
(I haven’t called that shot off-balance. It wasn’t off balance. You saying there was no “potential block” is, furthermore, bizarre. He barely got the ball over the defender’s hand by leaning back).
Seriously – you’re calling that an “open” shot? What planet are you on?
Really, you want to carry on with this after he did it in back to back games?
I already spoke to this, how Rush’s foot slipped, he struggled to recover, Monta had already elevated and squard. By the time Rush closed out that shot was 90%, all he had to do was release. That is as open as you can ask for one on one. Even in set play you are going to have a guy running at you trying to close out. I really don’t feel like continously answering the same question.
It’s also beside our point. We were talking about the play call. Aparantley it was a playcall and you aren’t “going to loss a lot of games” with that call cause it just won us back to back games.
Now, i know your going to try to sidestep that with how it wasn’t approriate last night, blah blah blah, but again it worked and yes Monta should’ve shot that earlier. I have no idea why he didn’t.
I’m trying to leave this alone but you are getting super weasle like. It’s annoying. 2008, not Nellie’s prime. Come on man. it was the same play under nelson as Smart. Same play, same result.
I don’t know how to attach a pic but Rush was at least 6’ from Monta when he began that shot, feet set, clear look at the rim, ball beneth his chin, knees bent ready to jump. Rush’s feet are at the Middle of the FT line which is 12 feet wide and Monta is standing outside of it. There was no way he could’ve recoverd in time to block that. He would’ve fouled him.
Terrible angle but pause the video at 1:20.
Nothing to say.
We fundamentally disagree. You are parsing video to find evidence that a well-covered shot wasn’t well-covered.
Look at the stills. If Monta’s not leaning back, that shot is blocked. That’s not a natural shooting position. How you can say a player is open when they have to lean back unnaturally to shoot is just complete nonsense.
Monta making it twice in a row means nothing. It’s still a dumb play call. Sonuds like, the second night, it may not even have been a play call.
give it up ronaldinho
you can never persuade Balance – he doesn’t understand basketball
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 24, 2011 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
It’s boils down to this for me. Coach Smart called a play to put Monta in a one on one situation and he is very hard to guard one on one.
Obviously both i and Kieth Smart think that is a high percentage situation. I think Monta’s low percentage play is due to forcing things up in double teams and driving into help defenders etc which that play helped eliminate. And it worked. Its wasn’t lucky. He hit it in back to back games with all the pressure on the line.
And agian, he got his shot.
Here’s the shot again in tonights game at the 1:35 spot of game highlights.
http://www.csncalifornia.com/pages/warriorsvideo?PID=47hDYilixQjNYb8w59Ntu9f2Q5iNKm52
I understand that we see it differently. I respect your opinion. If we agreed on everything this site would be boring for me.
Obviously both i and Kieth Smart think that is a high percentage situation.
Except iso’s aren’t high percentage. They’re actually quite low percentage….
by Missing Barry on Jan 25, 2011 6:52 AM PST up reply actions
Obviously both i and Kieth Smart think that is a high percentage situation
I guess we need to fire you too?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 25, 2011 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
Sure it was isolation, but with options. it put the pressure on the defense to pick their posion. they choose to guard monta one on one and got burnt. Why can’t Smart get credit for that?
Some ball movement woulda put more pressure on them and not left it up to a lucky off balance shot to bail us out.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 20, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Why was he off balance? Because he was fading? Are layups off balance because you are running? Is Nowitzki off balance when he shoots his patent fad away?
I thought it was a good shot. i think it was a shot in rythm. He was hitting that shot earlier in the game and has hit similiar shots like that his entire career.
ok
it was a good play. but anyone can do that, including a kid playing on his varsity team.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 20, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
draw up a game winning shot for monta?
lmao. you mean the lame one-on-one isolation that monta will make 1 out of 7 times?? that had nothing to do with coaching. that was simply monta bailing smart out of another disastrous collapse (leading by 10 in the 3rd qtr).
favorite player get more PT to maximize our entertainment? you mean udoh and his +17 +/- stats in numerous games and he only gets 5 mins a game?? it actually has nothing to do with developing our young guys. udoh has proven time and time again that only good things happen when he is on the floor, such as getting the team back into the game or getting the team the lead.
udoh isn’t the only player either. wright has turned in 3 straight strong performances, and each time smart rewarded him with a DNP the next game.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 20, 2011 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
Udoh is not a +17 +/- player. your taking his good games and ingnoring the others. I’m not interesting in a discussion like that.
ok
add up all of his games and tell me what you get on average.
are we even watching the same games? it is clear that whenever he steps on the court, he is doing good things
but yea, look at all of the box scores and tell me what you get
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 20, 2011 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
see that game last night? Warriors can actually get help from Wright, as myself and others have been saying for a while
but they got more help from the refs shafting JeffFoster twice in a row :>)
So Wright is worth about 2 blow calls, but how much have we invested in him so far?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 20, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
Every coach in the NBA has to win games to keep their jobs.
Lacob to Smart…..I dont care how many games we loose! I want Udoh on the floor more. Doesnt have the right ring to it. Curry/Monta/Lee/Wright and Beans might disagree. ;-p.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 20, 2011 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
Some interesting points. The one disagreement I have is with the first point about our talent. I still think we’ve got the talent of a .500 team, maybe even a little bit more. We definitely have more offensive talent than we’ve shown so far.
by Missing Barry on Jan 19, 2011 7:38 AM PST up reply actions
if we won half our games i would instantly cream my pants. I think it’s possible with injuries in Portland the 2 steps back that Phoniex took, but Clips are on the rise. I guess it’s possible now that we are into the season but i would’ve bet you by bottom dollar pre season we’d miss .500
Well you should have figured injuries were bound to happen to someone, even if we couldn’t predict who that someone is before the season. I still think we’re a better team than the Clippers are, though their future is looking pretty good right now….
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 7:13 AM PST up reply actions
i probably would’ve predicted that it would be us as it typically is. And, we’ve already had ours but hopefully the worst of it is behind us.
I guess it would be safe to assume equal injuries across the board. Or in other form, no injuries at all because an equal assumption in itself washes out. So it comes down to how much talent you think is on this team. All teams being healthy i didn’t think we had the talent to be a playoff team.
Biedrins and Ellis were terrible last year, and no one expected anything close to this type of production out of D.Wright. Radamovic is having a career year. You really had to be a homer to thing that we’d be this good. .500 i would’ve laughed at. The clippers have Way more talent than us. They just don’t have outside shooting. But if they can add that in the coming years, they will be serious trouble.
I tought Sac would be much better. Maybe expected too much from DC but thought he’d be perfect next to a defensive center like Dalembert. I think Memphis is better than they get credit for. The suns were better before their most recent trade. Utah was just going to play Millsap more and Jefferson can help. i didn’t think they would fall very much. To be honest, i saw us near the bottom of the western confrence again.
I tought Sac would be much better. Maybe expected too much from DC but thought he’d be perfect next to a defensive center like Dalembert.
Cuz is not the problem there, it’s Tyreke’s hugh drop off in production so there’s more pressure on the other players. If Tyreke was playing like he did last year Cuz (and the whole kings roster) would look a lot better.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 20, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I really don’t think you do have to be a homer to think of the team as .500 or even a little better. I think there was a fairly good, objective case – that case starting from the Warriors being a 32 win team in 09-10 (as our pythag record indicated we should have been), and adding significant talent (seeing as how our bigs that got the most time last year were Maggette, who obviously isn’t really a big, Tolliver, Turiaf then Hunter, in that order), improving substantially in rebounding, and a little bit in defense (traditionally lineups, the addition of Dorell), and continuining to be a good offensive team (we have lots of offensive talent).
I guess it would be safe to assume equal injuries across the board. Or in other form, no injuries at all because an equal assumption in itself washes out.
Yes and no. Assuming each team has roughly the same chance of injury seems like the right thing to do to me, the thing is, there’s only one of us and a lot of them. There are 14 other WC teams. There’s one of us. The chances of one of our competitors season getting derailed from injuries is 14 times greater than the chance of our season getting derailed from injuries.
The clippers have Way more talent than us. They just don’t have outside shooting. But if they can add that in the coming years, they will be serious trouble.
Meh. Griffin is a beast, but still only a rookie with weaknesses (especially defense). Jordan is solid. Gordon is playing well, though I’m still skeptical. I don’t see much other talent on the rest of that team. Baron is Baron – unless he decides he really cares at some point in the future, he hurts them more than he helps. Kaman is a bum that shoots too much. Bledsoe and Aminu might be solid pieces in the future, but at best Aminu fills a limited role right now (kinda like Udoh fills a limited role for us right now). The Clippers just aren’t that good, right now.
I also don’t see much reason to be optimistic about the Kings. Tyreke’s regression is surprising, but Thompson is a bum, DC is a rook, Landry continues to get worse every year….meh. We’re way ahead of them in talent, right now. I don’t really like the Grizzlies much, either. A team of low efficiency guys who still shoot a lot, and they end up relegating their best offensive player (Marc) to a non-factor. Bleh. Horribly run franchise. Obviously the TWolves suck, I think everyone saw that coming. I really don’t find it surprising that we should be in the playoff hunt at all. I’m not sure we should or will make the playoffs, but we should at least compete for them.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Although we added talent don’t forget that everyone else did to. Does your pythag equate that adding talent is nessassary just to equal last years production.
Otherwise i agree with you but your conclusions are being drawn in hindsight while we were talking pre-season expectations.
See, I don’t believe in the “everyone added talent” mantra at all. I think it’s a zero sum game. Some additions were made, some subtractions, in the end, the talent level of the population remains the same. But I do know we definitely got better.
Not all of my observations are hindsight. Tyreke playing like garbage obviously is. I probably didn’t expect Landry to continue to play worse. My thoughts about the Warriors are not – I don’t feel like taking the time to dig them up, but I definitely made arguments along those lines before the season.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Regarding the clippers. I think they have some of the very difficult to aquire pieces in place. It will be easier to surround Gordan and Griffin with the right guys now that they know what they have. Aminu could end up being really good (suprisingly) if he continues to improve his jump shot.
I agree, with the Clippers, I threw in right now, because I’m talking about this year. They do look good for the future.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah. The advantage of having Griffin is that they can not look for complementary pieces.
That’s part of why having superstars is so valuable. It lets you look for players who only have to fill very well-defined roles.
you're not getting the point. even i can do a better job than smart right now. i don't care if the players get along with him, anyone can do that. that's an assistant coach's job, not the head coach. what i care about is winning games, and there were
many more games we could have won this year
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 19, 2011 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
new jersey game
here is another example of poor coaching: the warriors had so many opportunities to put the nets away but they continually let the nets crawl back in the game with a legit chance to win, with the warriors’ poor defense. during crunch time, smart plays small ball, lee at center, 3 guard line ups, etc. and lets new jersey get back into the game because the warriors can’t grab a rebound with their small lineup. why the f are you playing small ball when you have a healthy biedrins, lee, gadz, bwright, amundson, and udoh? the warriors need to be beating the teams they are supposed to beat much easier than this. there should be no reason why you have to work so hard to get a win against the bad teams.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 19, 2011 2:43 PM PST reply actions
Smart doesn’t play Beidrins at the end of games, niether did Nellie and another coach wouldn’t either. Smart likes to play Radman, and Lee as our big men at the end of games because they can both put the ball on the floor and they can both hit free throws. Udoh fits this role to but you have to see my previous point above as to why he goes with Radman over him.
Right, but at the same time, we sacrifice defense and rebounding. I don’t think it’s a wise tradeoff.
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure, but when protecting a lead most teams do this. You want to prevent TO’s, run out the clock and hit FT’s when they foul. It’s standard Strategy. in closer games you can sub in defensive/ rebounders during the time outs and whistles.
I understand what you are saying (what we scarafice) but it’s pretty common practice. It’s not a practice unique to coach Smart.
You also want to play defense and rebound. ;)
by Missing Barry on Jan 20, 2011 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
good points
but i’m not talking about the end of games, and even so, you can play a better lineup than lee at center and 3 guards. udoh is a fantastic ft shooter. why is he not in the game at the end? and you can do much better than lee at center and rad at pf, you need some defensive presence. bwright is not too bad of a ft shooter either. anyway, if you also notice, smart put biedrins to close out one of the recent games too, despite his poor ft%, i think it was the clips game, or something. bottom line is, smart does not put in the right lineups at the right times. smart let the nets get back in the game (a poor team like that should not be coming back like that) with his poor substitutions.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 20, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions
pacers game
i didn’t watch the first half, but i heard smart took out all of his starters together at one point – that is just plain horrible. the celtics big 3 (allen, pierce, and garnett), have one guy in there at least at all times. the warriors (ellis, curry, and lee) one needs to be in the game at all times (maybe even 2 because the warriors big 3 is not as big as their big 3).
in the 2nd qtr, we were down as low as 10. that was the perfect time to put in your defensive lineups to stop the bleeding, but smart did not.
in the 3rd qtr, the warriors went on their huge run (guess what sparked it? defense), and they led as much as 10. what did smart do? he continually drove them to the ground, not leaving them fresh for the 4th qtr (we were lucky ellis was still able to bail smart out and hit that difficult shot). he should have rested his key guys at that moment and put in a defensive lineup to sustain the lead. and guess what happened? the warriors lost focus, let the pacers back into the game, and it had to take a heroic 4th qtr (how many times does ellis have to bail them out) to win the game.
and all of this can be avoided by making the right substitution patterns. if ellis did not make that last shot, we would have been saying what kind of silly lineup do you put with law/ellis/williams/rad/bwright to close out the game during crunch time? we were REALLY lucky we got away with it. bwright should not be playing center at all. the warriors got really lucky, and we can’t get lucky all the time.
make the right moves and we can have an easy win instead.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 20, 2011 7:24 PM PST reply actions
With 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter and the Kings gaining the lead and advantage over the Warriors
Keith Stupid decideds to have Monta Ellis, Acie Law, Brandan Wright , Ekpe Udoh, and Brandan Wright out on the floor which lead toa 11-3 run (i think). WTF does he expect his bench to do in an unfavorable situation while Stephen Curry sits out along with David Lee?
Not to mention that Curry was making big shots before he was taken out.
We have two guys named Brandan Wright?
Talk about your Wright Brothers. Man, this is getting confusing!
actually, it was pretty impressive
you got his name right twice which is more than probably half the people on this forum.
+1
absolutely terrible, and i noticed that and wanted to point that out too. you’re down in the beginning of the 4th qtr, a key moment, and this is the lineup that you expect to come back and win with? the warriors got unbelievably lucky again (i’m not complaining and fans will love the win), but once again, smart needs to avoid situations like this in the first place and put us in a better situation to succeed and win. yet another game (this time the kings), and smart is a terrible coach
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 24, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
king's game
here is another example of poor coaching. even marcus thompson says so.
who the heck gambles to take the last shot when you are LOSING? if you miss that shot, the game is over! great shot by monta! absolutely terrible coaching by smart!
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 24, 2011 11:15 AM PST reply actions
Came back from game tonite.
So pretty much Keith Smart just can’t make a decent sub. I mean wow, it’s not like he was going to change the outcome of the game much but the dudes a fool. First sub is Gadz…ok bad. 2nd subs Reggie for Dorell and Vlad for Biedrins. Ok bad, we should be resting Ellis or Curry with Reggie, and Vlad giving Dorell a rest. Instead Vlad is playing the 4…ughh. Ok then brings Udoh in….to have him play next to Vlad in the frontcourt. So we have a horrible rebounding frontcourt. Vlad and Udoh are a bad mix, neither rebound. Puts in Acie Law for Curry….ok bad. Acie should never play. Doesn’t rest Monta at all.
Same thing in 2nd half pretty much. Finally rests Monta, but when Curry’s off the floor too! Are you kidding me? We should never have both off the floor, and the only time we rest Monta is with Curry on the bench too… wow. Then Lee is doing heckuva job and he takes him out for like 4 minutes in the middle of the 4th…when he comes back in, games over.
So Keith Smart legitimately didn’t make a single good rotation all night long. He does this almost every game. We probably don’t win the game with better coaching. He isn’t holding us back from being a title contender. But is he a net negative of 5 games probably? Yeah. That’s huge in coaching. Coaches should just be playing the right players, and putting out a system that fit’s his players. That’s it. No huge impacts. but Keith does. He’s done a terrible job, but I get a sense Lacob’s pissed too (who makes a comment like he did about Smart’s rotations unless he’s near the end).
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 24, 2011 10:50 PM PST reply actions
wow, and i thought i was the only one going nuts!
thank you for putting this so eloquently. PERFECTLY SAID! these substitution patterns are so terrible, even a 10yr old girl can do better than this! oh my goodness! lacob, pleeeeaaaaaaaaaaase get rid of smart asap!
if even the owner recognizes this, what gives!?
bring in jeff van gundy, the 10 yr old girl, anybody. please.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 25, 2011 2:46 PM PST reply actions
Come on, even my 6 year old watch the game know what's wrong with the team. For real!
Hey daddy, why the other team getting all the rebounds?
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Jan 25, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
Hey daddy, why the other team getting all the rebounds?
cause life is not fair kid, there is no santa claus :>)
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 26, 2011 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
spurs game
my response to adam lauridsen’s blog:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/warriors/2011/01/24/half-right-warriors-102-spurs-113/comment-page-5/#comment-118093
i attribute all 3 areas that need improvement due to coaching and keith smart
1. you can’t beat the spurs without playing defense. need defensive minded players? how about ellis (when he is given time to rest), dwright, biedrins (the 08-09 version), law, udoh, amundson, gadz, carney, lin, bell, bwright?? we DO have defensive players, but they are not given the minutes or worked into the rotation properly. i put this on smart. his rotations and substitution patterns have been absolutely appalling the entire year.
[for example, he should not take out all of his starters out at the same time. when you need offense off the bench at the guard position, put reggie in. when you need someone to complement him, put in ellis, law, lin, or bell next to him. when curry is in the game and monta needs a rest, put in a defensive guy. when lee is out of the game, put a pf who has some offensive game to take his spot (udoh or bwright). stop playing radman at the 4. and if you really want to, put in a defensive 5 to help him out, like biedrins or udoh, not another twig like bwright, who is supposed to play the 4, not the 5. i could go on and on. when a player is doing well, keep him in the game and do not disrupt the flow. it is so simple, and smart can not make the obvious move.]
2. a low post threat? lacob does not need to trade for anyone. put in bwright and udoh for crying out loud!
3. how can the bench contribute that much when they are not given the minutes? would like to see more of udoh and bwright please. the spurs do not have so much great of a bench. neal, an undrafted player? mcdyess, who is way past his prime? the only reason why the spurs’ bench performs so well is because they are better coached and DISCIPLINED. they stay in front of their man on defense, don’t try to reach, don’t commit silly fouls or turnovers, and don’t jump at every opportunity. barnett pointed out many times, why are there 2 warrior defenders jumping up at every spurs shot? again, this is coaching and keith smart. poppovich would work wonders for our bench.
i really hope everyone realizes that smart has to go, and it would be even better if we can get rid of him now. i think anyone out there can do a better job than him right now. some of his moves are just so blatantly ridiculous.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 26, 2011 3:06 PM PST reply actions
this squad has not played together for very long, you have got to give Smart till the end of the year.
As we (sorta) appraoch the all-star break, I’m not sure that turning this team over to a new coach (with a whole new system) is going to help all that much
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
the problem is that keith smart is still like nellie in many ways. take last night's game vs the hornets as an example, there was no defense whatsoever. in other games, smart has played small ball (3 guards at the same time or radmanovic at the 4, or
lee at the 5) and it clearly makes things worse. if we had a real coach who would force the guys to play disciplined hard defense, then we would be winning more games right now. even lacob points out that he is confused by smart’s substitutions. i would like van gundy or larry brown, guys with proven track records of playing disciplined defense, but i would take anyone else at the moment who doesn’t have terrible substitution patterns, plays small ball, and preaches just a little bit about defense. the warriors shot 50% last night, but it didn’t matter because the other team shot 60-70%, that is just no defense whatsoever. it’s clear that riley got more defensive minded players in the offseason (like udoh, amundson, carney, dwright). bell, gadz, bwright are solid defenders too. it is up to smart to find the right combinations that allow us to not sacrifice any offense. we are not changing an entire system, merely just using our players the right way. we don’t have to have great individual defensive players, but if you play good defense as a team, it would camouflage weak individual defenders (like curry, reggie williams). look at the heat. from day 1, they knew that defense is going to win games, so thats what they worked on immediately.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 27, 2011 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
What’s funny to me is before this year, Keith Smart was known as a defensive coach. At what point is the lack of defense simply on the personnel we have, rather than the coach…? And most of our “defensive minded players” aren’t very good overall. Like Carney and Bell. And then guys like Amundson, Udoh and Gadz haven’t been able to do anything on the defensive glass. When your big men can’t get a defensive rebound it doesn’t really matter if they do a better job guarding a guy. Gotta still finish the defensive possession. Another interesting thing to note: there’s strong positive correlation between age and defense – older teams play better defense. Have you checked out how young we are? At least consider the possibility that it might not have much to do with coaching….
by Missing Barry on Jan 27, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
jazz game
keith smart finally learning. puts in a defensive lineup in the 4th qtr, (notice udoh with another +13), keeps them in instead of putting in his starters, and comes out with a solid victory against a solid team. i hope smart keeps this up.
by thewarriorsrule on Jan 31, 2011 1:10 PM PST reply actions
suns game
udoh +13 even though everyone else is <-10 and he only gets 14 mins. wtf.
monta guarding grant hill.
frye getting open 3 pointers all night long.
vlad playing the 4 again, lee at the 5. who is the interior defender? oh that’s right, udoh your best interior defender gets benched despite playing well.
lacob, please fire smart already.
you can not win games with poor defense and sloppy turnovers on offense. bring in jeff van gundy please.

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