Steinmetz: Where has Biedrins' game gone? [CSN Bay Area]
Bigger question: Why does Andris Biedrins make so many excuses? But I guess it's Nellie's fault, right?
over 1 year ago
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starts with bad coaching
just have to involve him in the offense more – Monta and Steph need to look for him more, but the direction has to come from the top.
by Evanz on Jan 16, 2011 11:03 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Honest question, do you watch the games?
Every game, they immediately try to feed him touches first few possessions. After that, any ball he gets he immediately passes away. Do you think the offense is designed with the philosophy “ok we’re going to give our athletic, good finishing center the ball 2 feet from the hoop, so he can pass it outside”?
Smart’s even said it, “I can’t have a guy on the floor who plays 30 minutes and only gets 2 points, he needs to be more aggressive and get back to what he used to do”.
Smart has done more to involve him than most coaches would. Biedrins sends the message that he doesn’t WANT to play. Fear of free throws, or whatever, it’s on him…
by tafkasam on Jan 16, 2011 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
yeah, I watch, of course
And I haven’t made that same observation, but I will look more closely next time. Maybe you’re right, and I’m wrong.
Re: just have to involve him in the offense more
But not in the low post. Smart was trying to involve him in the offense early on this year but in a way that made no strategic sense. He used to be a deadly pick and roll finisher. He can also drive from the high post.
So it’s partially on the coach.
But he’s admitting his confidence is the problem so I think it’s time for people to start laying the lion’s share of the blame squarely on his shoulders. He should have at least tried underhanded free throws too. I can’t comprehend why that’s more embarrassing to him than shooting 25%.
That said, I’m actually a huge fan of “good Andris”, I love his rebounding, mobility and soft touch around the rim. I’m not ready to give up on him yet but I’m also not going to blame Smart or Nelson for something so clearly and admittedly his own psychological issue. And I think it goes back to him being afraid to go to the line.
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 16, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
It should be said, BIEDRINS doesn’t look for these things when they’re called
e used to be a deadly pick and roll finisher. He can also drive from the high post.
He doesn’t look for the pass. It’s not Curry or Monta not making the pass, it’s him rolling away from hoop, or keeping his head down so not to recieve a ball. It’s him passing out of the high post instead of driving.
The whole team speaks about wanting Andris to be more aggressive. I’ve heard Monta and Curry allude to it in interviews too.
If andris did those things, I do believe it’d make EVERYONE’s game easier. David Lee most notably
by tafkasam on Jan 16, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure what’s going on with him. Not getting enough touches off ball, and too many just from post ups. Steph and Monta are relatively poor at driving and finding a big cutting compared to Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson.
Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 16, 2011 11:13 AM PST reply actions
Monta was quite bad coming back from his major injury
Took him a while to get back in form, might be similar with Beans.
Worth pointing out how Smart tries to get Biedrins involved early ...
… because it affects his entire game. That’s an example of good coaching, and for all the blame we heap on Smart, it’s worth calling attention to.
That being said, you know what, it might actually be Nellie’s fault. I know you wrote that tongue-in-cheek, but what we have here is a confidence issue. And it appears clear that Biedrins’ confidence was shattered by playing when he was injured.
And who insisted he play when he was clearly hurt, again?
by Ronaldinho on Jan 16, 2011 11:22 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
The major difference is man management skills
Nellie wasn’t wrong with his assessments of Biedrins and what he needed to do. It was just obvious 70 year old Don lost his patience to work with Andris. By that I mean coddle him a bit, build his confidence etc.
Thats the aspect I appreciate most about Smart. He is a players coach, he does work with everyone.
To be fair
Nellie DID give him time to work it out. But there was no improvement in Biedrins, and then Nellie lost patience and aired out Biedrins problems.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 16, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
And I don't blame Nellie for it. He's not a babysitter
But at same time, you have to play cards your dealt. And if your best center is sensitive and a bit of a head case, don’t air him out.
Can’t say I’d do different than Nellie though. It’s REALLY frustrating as a coach when you know a player is stopping himself from playing his best….
Yeah,
and I think Nellie ran out of ideas on Biedrins. If I remember correctly, he tried to leave him alone. He tried to call plays that set him up to score, and he didn’t do it. I think he tried to scare Biedrins in shooting more FTs by telling him that he’ll end up in the history books if he didn’t shoot more FTs. But in the end, I think Nellie just ran out of motivational ideas, so he used the media as a last resort.
And as for not airing out Biedrins’ problems publicly, I bet other coaches would have done the same. I can see Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Gregg Popovich, maybe Doc Rivers doing the same thing too once they reach the end of their patience with a player.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 16, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
And here's the other thing
Biedrins is showing his mental roadblocks during the regular season, both this season and last season. Just imagine what it would be like in the playoffs. The pressure of winning mounts up. The national media and audience is watching. EJ, Kenny and Chuck are eyeballing the games, looking for things to make fun of. Craig Sager is out and about with no fear of asking the tough questions.
If it takes so much coddling to get Biedrins up to speed and play normally right now, how ON EARTH can he possibly survive the playoffs? What’s Smart going to do if Biedrins hides back in his shell during a playoff game that we NEED to win or else we’re knocked out of the playoffs? If Biedrins could not handle Nellie talking about his problems to the media, how’s he going to handle Kenny and Chuck replaying the plays that show Biedrins acting scared while they point and laugh in front of the national audience? How will Biedrins react when the opposing team SWARMS him to intentionally foul him and force him to the FT line?
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 16, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Weirdly, Chuck likes Biedrins
I will try to dig up segment, but he kept comparing him to Chris Dudley, a player who he said ‘was good, and helped the team a lot, just couldn’t make free throws’. But Chuck is a guy who oogles over rebounding more than any commentator in national media (see: Noah, Love etc.)
But yes, I completely agree with your point. It’s pretty frustrating and I’m not sure what the answer is. I keep thinking, best option (and probably least popular) is to try to dump him for expirings and make a move for another center in summer with additional cap space.
I know Barkley mentioned it on KNBR
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2010/2/27/1328699/warriors-practice-day-links-don
But the mp3 links have been removed from their servers.
In that interview, I do remember Barkley saying that he felt sorry for Biedrins and his hitch, because he compared it to his golf swing and Chuck was just as frazzled about his hesitating golf swing as Biedrins was about his FT hitch.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 16, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Dump him for expirings? You’ve got to be joking. He’s not garbage, especially since much of his weak play has been due to just coming back from injury. Remember the Jazz game?
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Sometimes you have to take a small step back to go forward. The best way to improve a team is with financial mobility. If we dump Biedrins we are 15-17 mil under the cap. More than enough money to get a center who will work and pursue other needs. I’d only advocate this move if we are out of playoff picture in february.
Remember the Jazz game?
One game doesn’t change anything.
by tafkasam on Jan 16, 2011 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, as soon as that center becomes available, I’d be happy to move Biedrins to get him. LOL Why do people cling to this fantasy that there is a center out there to replace Biedrins? He’s just not out there. We’re not going to get any Dwight Howards, Amar’es, Gasols (well, maybe Marc), Bynums or even any Horfords.
I would love a big strong all-star center, but they’re extremely hard to find. That’s one of the reasons Biedrins still has great value. Furthermore, we already have expirings with Vlad and Gadz and have trade pieces… like Biedrins. We don’t need to dump Biedrins for mere expirings. That’s crazy talk.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
If we dump Biedrins we are 15-17 mil under the cap.
Probably not. After the first round pick (which we’ll likely still have) and filling out the roster with minimum salary players as required by the CBA, we’re more likely only 7 mil under the cap.
filling out the roster with minimum salary players as required by the CBA,
Can’t you do this after the fact? Even when you’re over the cap?
Can’t you do this after the fact? Even when you’re over the cap?
No.
When you’re over the cap, it’s irrelevant since you have no cap space. This only matters when trying to figure out how much cap space (space under the cap) you have to sign new players. In calculating the available cap space, if you have fewer than 12 players under contract, the league requires that you operate as if you’ve signed enough players to make a minimum required roster of 12 contracts.
JAE i think what he was saying was that we’d be 15-17 IF we dump Biedrins 9mill for MORE expirings. that would give us an additional 9/ plus on top of the 14 we already have.
Even if you missed that, you’re over estimating our draft pick. Most likely, our pick is going to NJ (unless we totally tank). It’s a non-factor.
You listened to the Don Nelson show almost every week right?
Would you say that Nelson was pretty blunt about everybody except for Monta? That’s my recollection.
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 16, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
He was pretty blunt about Monta
Like after his game v. Dallas where he was something like 15-22 shooting (or something), he commented ‘we need to see monta score more efficiently like that consistently’
Yeah
and he’s been blunt even about Monta, but not very often. I remember the one time where Monta wasn’t listening to the huddle, and on the Nellie show the next day or so, he talked about how it happens more than you think that players in a huddle end up forgetting what the play is, and he bluntly said that in the end, Monta should have been paying more attention. He wasn’t saying it in a “mean” voice, but it was straight forward about it.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 16, 2011 12:08 PM PST up reply actions
There you go.
It IS Nelson’s fault. He destroys trade value besides his penchant for small ball. AB would not be playing under Nelson and he’s only done a little better under Smart, so he’s trade bait. Smart said he will stick with AB even after some of his recent poor games. Wow, that was some statement. Heck, Larry Riley must’ve been ready to call PHX for Lil Lopez after watching some of those Biedrins clunkers.
That said, I’m frustrated that Smart hasn’t played Udoh more, but I’m still giving him time. But he needs to find him more PT.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
AB would be good trade bait after two dub-dubs.
I’d settle for one dub-dub.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
He destroys trade value besides his penchant for small ball. AB would not be playing under Nelson
Dre did quite well under nellie till he got hurt. He’s a small ball center cause he can run the floor, catch and pass well, and rebound for the fast break.
His problems have nothing to do with nellie and smallball, they are more of a problem for post up big ball.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 18, 2011 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
Nelson personally tried to teach Biedrins his one-handed technique.
He then asked him to try underhanded. He hire Sidney Moncrief to help the whole team and it worked.
I don’t think you could say Nelson didn’t try to help with his freethrows. What more could he have done?
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 16, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
I agree that Smart is more of a player's coach
But I wouldn’t oppose benching Beans to prove a point. If you don’t want to go out there and give it your all, then I won’t let you.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Re: That being said, you know what, it might actually be Nellie’s fault.
And it appears clear that Biedrins’ confidence was shattered by playing when he was injured.
His confidence appears to stem from his inability to shoot freethrows. His defense, screen-setting, rebounding and finishing around the rim all seem intact. Passing the ball when you are under the rim and as good a finisher as Andris would indicate a fear of going to the line or sudden-onset Turiaf syndrome.
And who insisted he play when he was clearly hurt, again?
How about Andris Biedrins? What coach could insist that an injured player with a huge guaranteed contract play hurt? He has no authority and no leverage.
Don Nelson refused to play Dirk Nowitzki because he was hurt despite Cuban’s demands. Don Nelson literally stopped the game in Portland last year because he didn’t want to have his injured players in the game, even momentarily.
Your assertion is preposterous.
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 16, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
LOL
He’s trying to post him up. Andris is not a post up player. Posting him up every single game at the start just is bad.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
He’s trying to post him up. Andris is not a post up player. Posting him up every single game at the start just is bad.
yeah , if they post him enough to make it work the other teams won’t take long to start doubling him on his dribble and taking the ball.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 16, 2011 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Great piece by Steinmetz.
Why does Andris Biedrins make so many excuses?
I didn’t see many “excuses” in that article. I saw a guy whose confidence is clearly shaken. At his point I think all Biedrins observers — longtime critics and longtime champions — recognize there’s something wrong with him. I think most people recognize that the problem is as much psychological as anything else.
I’m not preaching infinite patience. This is a cut-throat, multi-million dollar business; and at a certain point if a key cog is not producing, for reasons psychological or physical, you have to start thinking about alternatives. Much as I fantasize about a return of the 2007-08 Biedrins, in my gut I feel like he’s at best the backup center of the future on this team. Outside of a bona fide superstar, I think this team’s biggest need right now is a beastly, psychologically stable, defensive-minded center. Who that is … I have no idea.
As for Nelson … er, why are we talking about him again?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 16, 2011 11:34 AM PST reply actions 6 recs
Re: I didn’t see many "excuses" in that article.
No, he pretty much admitted that he had a problem, which is great. That’s the first step to recovery right?
It’s the fans that are making the excuses and I think it’s less because they are blind Andris Biedrins enthusiasts but rather because they want to use it as more ammo to go after Keith Smart. His rotations, specifically his use of Curry and his strange early-season offensive strategy are reason enough to dislike him, but blaming him for this is a stretch.
As for Nelson … er, why are we talking about him again?
Are you unfamiliar with Atma’s work?
He has like 5 pet topics and this is an opportunity to blend two of them into a one-sentence post. Personally, I’m impressed. Furthermore, I think Biedrins’s struggles are a direct result of trading J-Rich which, of course, would never have happened if Cohan wasn’t so cheap and Mullin wasn’t so incompetent.
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 16, 2011 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
I should also add that I am a fan of Atma's writng.
Always have been, it’s what drew me here in the first place.
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 16, 2011 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Furthermore, I think Biedrins’s struggles are a direct result of trading J-Rich which, of course, would never have happened if Cohan wasn’t so cheap and Mullin wasn’t so incompetent.
rec’d :)
Wait I'm not correlating A and B.
Flesh it out for me?
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
Seriously.
PURE.
GENIUS.
BSD you crack me up man.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | BayArea.SBNation.com | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 16, 2011 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
Can one of the more astute members do a statistical analysis of what Biedrins (2008 production) on this team would mean win-loss wise?
I did a quick study of his win share now as opposed to 2 years ago, and it’s roughly half of what it is. I’m not a big believer in ‘win share’ but for what it’s worth, if he was producing at those levels we’d have 2 more wins. I have to believe if Andris was playing at the level he has in the past, giving us 12 and 12 a night, playing better defense, the team would have 3-4 more wins ? Not just for that production, but fact he’d be a threat, how it’d make everything easier for Lee, Monta, Curry (Lee especially).
The lack of production from the center spot (on both ends), has been this teams biggest weakness, in my opinion.
just calculated 2008-2009 ezPM for the Warriors (well, for the entire NBA)
Biedrins’ ezPM100 that season was +3.8, this year it’s -1.1. That’s almost a +4 difference. At the team level every +1.0 increase in point differential (which is what this is) represents 2.5 wins. Given that he plays about 60% of the minutes, this difference would amount to:
4.0*0.6*2.5= +6 wins
I'll do a full post on my blog (cuz this is interesting)
Here are the rest of the ’08 squad:
NAME POSSESSIONS ezPM100
Andris Biedrins 3759 3.82
Brandan Wright 1363 2.46
Anthony Randolph 2361 1.35
Jermareo Davidson 204 1.34
C.J. Watson 3855 -0.31
Ronny Turiaf 3610 -0.53
Kelenna Azubuike 4902 -0.68
Corey Maggette 3335 -0.94
Jamal Crawford 4569 -1.69
Stephen Jackson 4842 -1.78
Anthony Morrow 3088 -2.23
Monta Ellis 1897 -2.33
Al Harrington 337 -2.64
Marco Belinelli 1797 -3.18
Demarcus Nelson 314 -3.22
Rob Kurz 776 -5.52
Marcus Williams 81 -11.09
Marcus Williams 81 -11.09
Our 2011 first round pick!
Love you Mully, the gift that keeps on giving!
by tafkasam on Jan 16, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The hairstyle..the change coincides with his poor play.
Gotta go back to the “wings” / spiked hairdo he had. It was a much more confident hairstyle and with it he didn’t look like a middle-school student. If you look good you play with confidence.
by SmittytheCutman on Jan 16, 2011 12:19 PM PST reply actions
haha
i can’t tell if you are joking or not, but I think you have an important point, which I included here in my discussion about biedrins confidence issues on SBNation Bay Area.
whether its the hair or him needing to get back out to the clubs and get his swag back, he’s gotta try some different things.
Seek a psychologist
Biedrins is pretty young, and people his age tend to go through this kinda stuff.
He sounds like he wouldn’t mind getting benched, almost like he deserves it. They can’t bench him cause his trade value would drop, you gotta hope he gets out of the funk and gets his mind right. He needs to stop thinking and go harder!! Even if he picks up fouls quick, he has to be more relentless when rebounding, who cares if he scores.
I’m not buying any of the excuses. Is it normal or okay to for him to have mental problems and how is that ever someone else’s fault? Are we talking about emotional abuse? Come on people!
The truth is that Beidrins never was very good. He’ll never be a good offensive player. He’ll probably never shoot a decent (70) percentage from the free throw line and he will probably never be a good defender because he doesn’t have an aggressive mentality. I’m not sure he even has a competitive mentality.
Let me point out one thing. Has Biedrins put on any muscle since his rookie year when he was 18 yrs old? My point is that i don’t think he has the work ethic necessary to make a significant contribution on a perennial playoff team.
We keep talking about the lack of his offensive production but to be honest i don’t care if he’s involved or not. I’d rather run the PnR’s through Lee. I don’t think his grand offensive potential of 10pts/ game is going to make us or break us. Its his DEFENSE because he’s never going to be a good offensive player.
He needs to muscle up, get aggressive, watch tape, anticipate his opponents go to moves, recognize when to rotate and do so quicker so that he is in position earlier and isn’t handing out bump and touch fouls. He’s should be able to hold his position by now. He’s been on this team longer than anyone. So why isn’t he the defensive captain? He should be calling out to his team mates where to be, talking through picks and rotations, etc. Watch Noah play. He does this. Watch Garnet play. He does it.
Look, I’m not expecting Biedrins to be Garnet but he has to be more than a one trick pony. He’s never going to be a factor on offense (the only reason he averaged 11 pts/ game was because he was our only interior player). He’s a good rebounder so the only other area to contribute is defensively and he’s not getting it done. Don’t think he ever will.
I’m tired of the excuses….“but if we surround him with the right talent”…. ya, like Jordan and Pippen? Ya, sure kind of like Luke Longly?
It’s getting old. I’ve been calling him out for years. 07-08 was what? Three years ago!!! This is Alex Smith part 2.
by Balance on Jan 16, 2011 3:55 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think his grand offensive potential of 10pts/ game is going to make us or break us
While in a sense you’re right, if he’s a non threat (IE not even dunking put backs) he is actually a detriment to our offense. Watch teams defend us, they all cheat off Biedrins, this is an extra man in the lane, an extra man DLee can;t beat, thus his drop in percentage. Biedrins just showing any sort of offensive aggressiveness will open up lanes for everyone.
I have to agree with this. Biedrins better get his mind right soon, or I will lose patience as well.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
i don’t entirely agree with that notion either. Beidrins offensive ability has never been respected. Players wouldn’t follow him at all out side the no-charge semi circle if it wasn’t for illegal defense (assuming you understand that rule). It is this rule that keeps players remotely close to him (arms distance) at any time. Basically i don’t think that in 07-08 they respected his ability any more than they do today. He was just (1) more assertive, put himself in position to score and was ready for the dish and (2) Nelllie ran a different type offensive system.
The reason D Lee’s production has gone down is also system related. Withdrawal from the same system. Lee like Biedrins (07-08) was the only big man on his team (NY). I call it the spread system. It’s more common in Euroball. The floor is spread with shooters and the is paint open for one roaming bigman and slashers. This is also why Amare didn’t produce as well with another big man in the paint. (See Shaq vs. Frye.) It creates an easy ability to drive and dish. The strategy attemts to make it a 2 man game (4 when you include defenders). You can play pick and roll or just swing the ball around until one of your players drive to the hole. Then it’s the driver + his defender and your bigman + his defender. if the big defender helps out on the drive then the drive would kick to the offense big. In this case Biedrins. If that doesn’t work becaues they rotate a wing defender to the paint you can kick the ball back out the perimiter and swing it around until you get the open shot. Or, if they come running out on you then you can drive back to the hole and have an advantage in numbers. It’s really quite simple basketball. We ran this system with Harrington as a shooting 4. (Frye was a shooting 5, or Gallinari as a shooting 4)
This becomes a very simple and defined offensive role for Biedrins who has a low BB IQ and Skill level to succeed in. If something breaks down, he can kick it out and get a few assist.
This is also the reason for the reductino in Lee’s production. And, you can generally assume that production will go down when you take a good player off a terrible team and put them on a better one. I.e look what happend with Bosh, the celtics big 3, Lamar Odom, etc. that being said, with our current construction Lee should and will average about 18/10 by years end. He’s been injuried and isn’t playing in the open paint system anymore either.
Where does this lead us? Well, i love the flex system that Smart is running. I like how it gives us a lot of passing options. Ellis, Curry, Lee, and D. Wright are work the system very well. They all have good basketball IQ and passing ability. The teams carries the responsibility to assist each other and it’s good because we don’t have a “true point guard”.
I really think that Udoh fits those starting 4 players better. I think he has the BB IQ to understand how to work the system and break down the defense. he’s a good passer, can shoot a 15’er and plays good defense. I’m not sure if he’s ready to be a starter and i understand Smart reluctance to have his vet center come off the bench but the few minutes i’ve saw Udoh play with the starters he looked great.
I don’t think Biedrins fits this team as well as he used to. And i don’t think he’s that good. Probably a Birdman type role on a perrenal playoff team (comming off the bench). I’ve given up on his ability to step up the defense. It’s also imparative that your GM understand things like this so that the coach has pieces/ players that fit together.
There was also an article earlier this year that basically outlined that our starting guards are a weak defensive combo and our starting Bigs are a weak defensive combo. One of those sets needs to change. Personally i think our guards are our strength.
by Balance on Jan 16, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
he’s too cool with his results, Andris needs to save himself. Get aggressive and stop playing passive
by Brothaplease09 on Jan 16, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
Beans' regression since he signed his contract is alarming for me.
Definitely not worth the 9M he’s paid right now. Seriously I think Riley should do all he can to get us an expiring, draft pick (I’d take a 2nd) and maybe a low tier prospect type to get something for him.
"I thought it was going in," Warriors center Chris Hunter said. "It looked like the invisible man tipped it away at the last second."
NO, no, no
Riley should look into droping Beans and then signing him for a year for the rest of his career.
THE SKY! THE SKY IS FALLING!
by chickenlittle on Jan 16, 2011 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
My point is that i don’t think he has the work ethic necessary to make a significant contribution on a perennial playoff team.
The thing is that three years ago he made a huge contribution to the Warriors. But he’s regressed a lot since then.
Easier to say when
you’re not the one suffering the issue:
“I’m not buying any of the excuses. Is it normal or okay to for him to have mental problems and how is that ever someone else’s fault? Are we talking about emotional abuse? Come on people!”
But i agree with you here:
“I’m not sure he even has a competitive mentality.”
Plus one. Something’s changed in AB. We can only speculate what it is. It sucks for both him first, and us, since despite the money he’s going through the public scrutiny none of us have to. But it does suck for us.
Could be AB’s tired of the game/life and is maturing away from the court in ways that somehow take, at least for right now, away from his game.
But yeah, he did sign the contract so we can expect his best.
This isn’t the first case of something like this and it won’t be the last. Maybe if we’re lucky he’ll get embarrassed/pisssed, pushing him to somehow get out of his funk.
But as i’ve been railing about for awhile here and to friends, the W’s should aim to trade AB (For something valuable as long as either through that trade or otherwise, a bigger, better defensively C is brought in….yes, has to be a good trade since he’s at least serviceable and it’s possible he remains so as is.)
The brunt truth.
(Meanwhile, go AB, i hope you figure it out.
But even more, go Riley. The right AB trade could do wonders.
Imagine the W’s with DeAndre Jordan clogging the middle, running and dunking, that kind of thing. Even a player with less talent “like that” would so much better compliment Lee and the rest of our soft defenders than AB does, and these other players would, i would assume, be stronger mentally/more into it.)
Do this also to see if the Curry/Monta backcourt only needs a true defensive presence down low to really work well. If even with a better defensive C it still doesn’t work, then you know that and can move one of the Gs for a better fitting backcourt (i support keeping Curry, but depending on their values at the time of any trade and the mix of the backcourt as a whole being the key thing.)
by supersugarCrisp on Jan 16, 2011 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
What happened to Beans vs Memphis?
When he was as confident as anyone. It seems like he misses 2 or 3 shots in a row and hes too scared to shoot it.
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
That was an exception
All the other nights atma just performs some woodoo to keep his agenda going.
THE SKY! THE SKY IS FALLING!
by chickenlittle on Jan 16, 2011 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
biedrins's been subpar stats wise
but he’s still our best big in terms of rebounding and defense. I’ve raised this analogy before but for me, Biedrins is like a strong Offensive lineman who doesn’t get much statistical glory but does a great job of pushing the line of scrimmage. When he’s on the floor, we get more rebounds — maybe not all from him, but we seem taller, get more hands on the ball, box out better. It’s a bit of an evaulate-by-eye type of thing, sure, but it’s noticeable.
Goal: 8 seed!
I agree. Biedrins is a lot more valuable than people give him credit for. He still deserves to start.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I agree with this, but...
….in a yeah, but it’s still not enough to make up for what we need from him and his contract kinda asks for way.
He is serviceable. Which is what a big C with his coordination/athleticism should be at least. That’s the sad part if AB doesn’t turn it around. There’s no such thing as “should,” but AB should be more than just serviceable.
by supersugarCrisp on Jan 16, 2011 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, we obviously ought to demand that he play back up to what he was doing before and continue to work on his FT shooting. The guy can be a great boon to our team, if he can turn the corner.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
beans went off for 28 and 21 one night this year.. was he not confident then?? i dont get it.
if he is this soft mentally then i say forget it.. hes done.. he isnt hungry enough. he needs his riches stripped and be homeless for a few months to regain his hunger but that aint gonna happen. he is better off acting like a total BEAST and at least trying to put the ball in the hole. if he plays bad and gets benched thats one things but to not even try putting the ball in the hole is rediculous. WALK THE PLANK BEANS.
After his most recent injury, he’s had some conditioning problems as well. I am willing to give him more time, personally. He’s too good a rebounder and shot blocker/changer plus has hands that are too great to give up on just yet.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.



























