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Recap #40: New Jersey Nets 100, Golden State Warriors 109- Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day! + GSoM Kids Day 3

UPDATE 1/18/11:
Thanks_to_golden_statewarriors_and_goldenstateofmind
Our friends from Oakland Housing Authority are UNSTOPPABLE BABY!

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Gsom-kids-day_medium

 

Nets Daily | SB Nation Bay Area | SB Nation New York

Jump for a recap of this nice matinee win!

Star-divide

Happy MLK Day!

First and foremost I wanted to wish you all a Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day. I've spent the last 27 years of my life in school and MLK Day is always a holiday. I didn't really realize till this year that the "work world" really doesn't seem to recognize this day. That's unfortunate. I wish this day was recognized across the country more universally. It's a special day, not just for People of Color or Americans, but for all of humanity.

I do want to give props both the Golden State Warriors and the NBA as a whole for their annual fantastic efforts to celebrate this day. Each year the Warriors go out of their way to recognize the day and turn it into one big kids day. If you've never been a matinee MLK Game at the Roaracle it has quite a different vibe than the usual atmosphere. There's lots of kids running around and having a great time. They're also pitching in media-wise on the PA system and even writing for the Oakland Tribune! (Nice work MT.) Very fun.

The NBA as well puts on a show every Martin Luther King Jr. Day. I remember in the Warriors pregame radio show with Tim Roye and gang, they were noting that the NBA actually started celebrating the day 4 years prior to the government recognizing it. The day long national coverage across NBA TV, ESPN, and TNT is very impressive as well. The NBA is a special league.

All of us at GSoM want to thank the Warriors for their continued support of GSoM Kids Day. As my man FJ noted in the preview with the support of the Warriors we were able to work with the following youth organizations this year and take 100 young Warrior fans to a game (a lot of first timers I imagine too):

  • Emeryville Parks and Rec
  • Farm Drive
    "Farm Drive Neighborhood Ministry offers urban neighborhood kids the opportunity to mature holistically (intellectually, emotionally, spiritually socially, and physically), through consistent long-term, mentoring relationships. We at Hillside Church want to help our kids, their families, and our community by being the hands and feet of Jesus in all that we do.

    We offer Pre-Kinder and Kinder classes, after school homework assistance (Homework Club) for elementary through high school, Saturday Bible Clubs, Street Hockey, Summer Read ‘n Swim, Monthly Food Distribution, and summer and winter camps."
  • Oakland Housing Authority
    "Our Mission: To assure the availability of quality housing for low-income persons and to promote the civic involvement and economic self-sufficiency of residents and to further the expansion of affordable housing within Oakland."
  • Potrero Hill Neighborhood House
    "The Potrero Hill Neighborhood House is a multi-purpose, multi-generational community center that has been in operation for over a century. We offer a "micro-system" of "family privilege" to all members within our community to help children, youth and seniors overcome potential risks from educational deficits and violence to hunger.

    We provide a safe, turf-free place where community members can come to be healed, educated, entertained and inspired. We are open to all San Franciscans and provide necessary services, free of charge, to those most in need with a geographic focus on the Southeast section of the city, Potrero Hill, Visitation Valley and Bay View Hunters Point."
  • Rotary Club of Oakland
    The Rotary Club of Oakland is a diverse service club of over 340 professionals, businesspersons, and other community leaders dedicated to fighting hunger and disease, and promoting health, education and other humanitarian causes in Oakland and around the world.

Now on to the game...

No Wonder Carmelo Anthony Doesn't Want to Go to the New Jersey Nets

The biggest talk league-wide is where Carmelo Anthony is going. In case you haven't been on Planet Hoop the most rumored destination is the New Jersey Nets (see Woj: Prokhorov, Nets In Danger of Becoming Jokes If He Doesn't Return to New Jersey with 'Melo in Tow from the mighty Nets Daily). Now the Warriors are a bad team, but the Nets- whoa man, they're awful. Here's an SAT analogy question for you (I'm actually not sure if they still have these, but here goes):

LA Lakers : LA Clippers

New York Knicks : ???

Ap-16c3eea764e443d586b07341d4e513b3_medium

I've always like this former Warrior legend though!

Answer: New Jersey Nets

Seriously, Melo, don't waste your time with that franchise. By the time they finally move to BROOKLYN, you and LaLa will be retired and sippin' lemonade in the Caribbean. Aside from Brook Lopez and Coach Avery Johnson's interviews is there really all that much to like about this team on the hardwood? Well, not today.

Game Shots

  • Driving home I couldn't remember a time when the Nets ever led this game. My memory wasn't failing me. As noted in the AP recap, the Warriors never trailed for 46 minutes of the game.
  • Give it up for Brook Lopez. He got virtually no help from the Nets other bigs (especially with Troy Murphy out), but he still managed to get 20 points on only 15 tries. He came into today's game of back-to-back 30 point games. His rebounding is down this year to a lowly 5.9, but I bet he gets that number up by the end of the season. He's the one keeper on the Nets roster.
  • This is why the Warriors pay David Lee the big bucks. 24 points (on only 13 shots), 10 boards, 4 assists (only 1 turnover). The Warriors are 5-2 when Lee gets 20. Coach Keith Smart- please get this man more involved in the offense please. That elbow looks a lot better than it did 10 games ago.
  •  Stephen Curry is struggling. Sure Steph's dealt with injuries and he has to stop fouling so much, but I don't think Coach Smart is utilizing him properly. Curry is the best player on the team, not Monta. (Yeah I said it and I believe it.) Curry needs more shots, more pick and rolls, etc. The ball needs to be in his hands and Monta needs to play off him as a more standard 2-guard. In the final month of the season last year (8 games in April) Curry averaged 26.4 ppg, 8.1 apg, 6.4 rpg, and 2.6 stl. That wasn't a fluke and there were a few nice wins. Don Nelson knew how to use Stef-fun. Does Coach Smart? I hope so, otherwise Curry is being wasted and the Warriors are liable to make some dumb trade with Stephen that we'll all regret.
  • I'm not exactly sure why Andris Biedrins gets 30 minutes a game. I'd like to see that time split amongst Ekpe Udoh, Louis Amundson, and Dan Gadzuric. They each bring some to the table that Biedrins doesn't- and they don't wallow in self-pity. I don't buy that Biedrins is head and shoulders above them. It didn't matter tonight, but it does matter if the team is going to make some noise during this January gift of home games.
  • Reggie! Reggie! Reggie! Reggie Williams was hot of the bench tonight (5-9 FG and 2-3 23pt). Don't be surprised if he's a future 6th man of the year.
  • Devin Harris- peaking at age 27 isn't all that bad, but that peak barely even lasted!
  • Derrick Favors- well, I'll put it this way. He can only get better.
  • Anthony Morrow- there will always be a home for you at the Roaracle. It's too bad we couldn't give you a little applause today.

Wonder_medium

The Player's Holiday award goes to Monta Ellis. It wasn't the best shooting night, but if there's 9 assist to only 1 turnover plus 5 boards- I'll take it! He's no MVP, but he does belong in this year's All Star game.

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This block alone will win you the Warrior Wonder!

Poll
Did you get the day off today in observance of Martin Luther King Jr. Day?
YES!
353 votes
No, but I should've!
156 votes

509 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 126 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Comments

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highest +/- for the game

If he could get his ft shooting back and attack more…

Need new coaches perhaps?

by mosdl on Jan 17, 2011 7:47 PM PST up reply actions  

?

Don't Trade Monta
Bush is on Fire!
Huff likes it raw

by JohnnyDangerously on Jan 17, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

And...

a confidence instructor.

Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 140500390962 in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 140500390962 in Ebay!

by JonDoe on Jan 18, 2011 8:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Beans has clearly been working a lot on those FTs

He’s got a whole new form. Once he starts getting comfortable again, he’ll attack more.

He has clearly adjusted his game to avoid going to the line. Now it looks like he is adjusting back to his old rebounding, put-back, P&R, dive-cutting self!

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 18, 2011 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not quite willing to make such big assumptions after one game.

This was a good game for him. But his best game of the season happened before his worst stretch, so I’m not going to jump to any conclusions.

by Ronaldinho on Jan 18, 2011 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah, fair warning

I am a Beidrens homer

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 18, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, those FT’s looked really good! If he didn’t put so much pressure on himself, I think he’d be shooting 60% or higher.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 5:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree that

Stephen is the best player on the team but just saying, Stephen is learning a new offensive system but he has had a lot of time to learn it and i am probably wrong. The real problem is obviously Stephen does not get aggressive enough when Monta is playing. So then Monta has to basically carry the team himself. I still really like Curry though don’t get me wrong.

by Curry for the win on Jan 17, 2011 6:47 PM PST reply actions  

+1

David Lee was the only starter who played at or above his expected output level, and kept us in the game with his efficient, calm shooting and sense of urgency. Monta got his numbers, but it was D-Lee’s ’tude that kept us comfortable in this one.

by tcc on Jan 17, 2011 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah Fasho

Efficient, nice stats, difference maker. Dave deserved it.

by jonathannn on Jan 17, 2011 8:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Regardless of your opinion on Steph vs. Monta

One must admit that it would be extremely interesting to see how Steph and the team would perform without Monta, or if in his place was a true SG, such as Eric Gordon or Wes Matthews. On defense, it’s pretty clear that they have a difficult time co-existing, especially against bigger, offensively minded guards; on offense it seems that while they are both talented, their abilities are not entirely complementary. It’s especially interesting when you consider the difference in Monta’s offensive game once Stephen Jackson left.

by tcc on Jan 17, 2011 7:22 PM PST reply actions  

Neither is a real PG

Monta is a score first, pass second guy (we all know that). He distributed pretty well today though.

Steph may be able to learn, but he also is no point guard yet. Compared to Ellis, he seems like a total team player, but elite PG’s Nash and Paul frequently have games where they shoot less than 10 times. Deron Williams is a pass first guy also. Steph played great from the point last April, but hasn’t controlled the team like that since. He is a shooter, but too small to guard SG’s.

It seems like Steph is beginning to shoot a little less. I think he is trying to focus more on developing himself as a PG, and that is why his turnovers are up and points are down (relative to last april). He is trying harder to distribute, but not doing a great job.

by Woody421 on Jan 17, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions  

hmmm

I think he is trying to focus more on developing himself as a PG, and that is why his turnovers are up and points are down (relative to last april)

April was a grand total of 8 games, during a time when just about all the teams we played knew if they would be in the playoffs or not.. Overall, Curry per36 is at 3.1 TO per game compared to 3.0 TO last season. He has however, upped his per36 assists from 5.9 ast to 6.5 ast. If comparing just April, then Curry since he came back from injury is much closer to how he was in April, assist and tov wise at least.

The problem with Curry, I think, is having to adjust to a new offense, whilst Smart keeps switching him from on and off the ball. As we saw from last season, Curry really exploded when Nellie made him the defacto Point Guard and let him handle the ball almost every possession.

The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!

by Badly Browned on Jan 18, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

The book is out

on Curry. Teams know how to attack him. He is probably the worst defender in the league. Along with the horrific defense, his decisions on the floor are terrible. Keith Smart is not the problem.

by illmaticwarrior on Jan 17, 2011 7:42 PM PST reply actions  

The book is out on Curry. I would say that all other teams respect him better than Ws. May be he should think about getting more respect and leave Smart to the Ws

by Ambal on Jan 17, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions  

lol wut

guarantee Nelson would have Curry dominating right now….Curry may not be the best player on the team, but he is easily the best playmaker and shooter. His defense, although not great, is not that bad when he doesn’t reach. Smart has done an awful job with Curry’s plays and playtime.

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Jan 17, 2011 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Smart has done an awful job with Curry’s plays and playtime.

If he stops doing stupid fouls he might play more

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jan 17, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Smart has done an awful job with Curry’s plays and playtime.

That sentence was much longer than it needed to be.

by jae on Jan 17, 2011 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Definitely rec’d.

Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 17, 2011 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I quoted Losthawk

Didn’t know if it was obvious or not…

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jan 17, 2011 9:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Should probably use the quote function.

It’s the best option for quoting people.

That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 18, 2011 3:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Indeed. The title line is not a quote box. I’m not sure why anyone uses the title box in the first place, but putting quotes in there just asks for confusion.

by jae on Jan 18, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure why anyone uses the title box in the first place

I can’t speak for everyone, but I got in the habit of sticking the first few words of my post in there so I can tell them apart in the ‘recent activity’ list to find a previous conversation easily.

I’ve gotten used to Skep quoting in the title box, but when others do it I get totally thrown off.

by olympicmike on Jan 18, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah. Interesting. I never use the recent activity viewer.

by jae on Jan 18, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

It's funny...

but I’m sure everyone uses the site in different ways. I use that list when I can’t remember what threads I started conversations in. It’s especially helpful if I don’t have a bunch of time to read, but want to check on a particular conversation.

by olympicmike on Jan 18, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions  

pretty much this
If he stops doing stupid fouls he might play more

knock off the revisionist history. He picked up a couple of early fouls and had to sit.
Let’s not forget that he only shot 4-10 yesterday after hitting those two shots in the final closing garbage time…before that he was 2-8 for the day

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 18, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Curry is our best player.
his decisions on the floor are terrible.

6 assists vs 2 TO’s and +/- of +11 today.
4 assists vs 2 TO’s and +/- of +9 vs Clips
10 Assists vs 3 TO’s and +/- of +2 vs Lakers

+/- is very noisy, but I don’t think its a coincidence that when he is in the game the Warriors play better when he is on the floor. He defense leaves a lot to be desired but same can be said about a lot of other Warriors.

his decisions on the floor are terrible.

You make it seem like he is the worst player in the league, which is simply not true. He isn’t perfect but he makes the team better when he plays.

by tandy on Jan 17, 2011 8:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Keep in mind backup PG might be the weakest link on the team, which will inflate Curry’s +/-.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:34 AM PST up reply actions  

somehow I hadn’t even considered that in regards to curry’s +/- it would be interesting though at this point impossible to see how this would be affected by a better back up pg

by AHR on Jan 18, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

The terrible backup certainly has an effect on the net +/-, but it’s important to note that Curry’s raw +/- is bettered only by Udoh (very, small sample size) and Adrien (very, very small sample size) . The backup point guard has no influence on his raw +/-.

by jae on Jan 18, 2011 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Acie Law wouldn't affect his +/- for the individual games I posted, though... right?

His plus/minus shown on basketball reference would be affected by Law’s play but I don’t see how the backup point would affect Curry’s +/- for those games, unless of course they play at the same time.

I’m just curious.

by tandy on Jan 18, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Good point – that is correct.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Teams know how to attack him.

Alright, I feel ya. Teams are doing a good job of attacking Curry and picking up quick fouls.

He is probably the worst defender in the league.

Woah, huge leap…

Along with the horrific defense, his decisions on the floor are terrible

…into the abyss of insanity. Seriously? His decisions are terrible? He’s practically the only one that throws the ball down the court for easy transition baskets. The team consistently plays better with him on the floor than when he is on the bench.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2011 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

He is probably the worst defender in the league.

Not the worst at his position, let alone in the league.

That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 18, 2011 3:30 AM PST up reply actions  

I didn’t really realize till this year that the “work world” really doesn’t seem to recognize this day.

The government does…

by Missing Barry on Jan 17, 2011 7:46 PM PST reply actions  

the american government

recognizes every day as a holiday. they don’t do S***

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Jan 17, 2011 11:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting thing to say…

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Monta Rules

Monta is amazing. He’s had a huge turn around from last year. Too bad the Western Confrence is so loaded with great guards. He probably won’t get the All-Star recognizition he deserves.

by John Will on Jan 17, 2011 8:20 PM PST reply actions  

For people who keep saying this:
Do you really think Monta is deserving of an all star spot over Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobilli, Tony Parker or Russell Westbrook?

Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 17, 2011 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

YES!!!!!!!

Unless criteria for an all star bid is purely “star on a winning team.”

Monta’s played better than most of those guys, on a worse team, and while getting absolutely no love from the officials. Monta is also quiet, I never see him celebrate his greatness. He’s not a fan friendly player. That is, most nba fans are morons and need a guy to scowl or make noise when they score. Monta doesn’t make a big deal even when he has his highlight play of the game. He also doesn’t complain about calls (unless they are horseshit, which is often).

Basically, Ellis is the type of player that needs to be too good to keep out of the AS Game. Last year I remember Kaman and Kidd were picked over him. The NBA is a complete and utter joke.

WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!

by true torture on Jan 17, 2011 9:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, last year Monta was really bad.

Kamansorous was worse but meh, there were better candidates than either of them.

This year, Nash, Paul, Williams, Kobe, and Ginobilli have been objectively better- he is not getting in over them. So if you want a 3rd guard it will come down to Parker, Westbrook, and Monta, and there isn’t really much of a case for Parker or Ellis over Westbrook.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 17, 2011 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

He wasn't "really bad"

He was just good surrounded by crap. Jason Kidd who barely averaged 9 points was unbelievable.

Monta’s shooting 47 percent and 40 from 3 too. What other elite guard can say that?

It should be 5 guards, Paul, Kobe, D-Will, Russ-West, and Monta. Simple as that. Ginobili isn’t nearly as talented as Monta. Just because the Spurs have 35 wins doesn’t mean both their guards get automatic spots. Statistically and realistically, Monta is better.

WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!

by true torture on Jan 17, 2011 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Ginobilli is the more efficient scorer between the 2. He’s the better passer. He’s a great defender. Monta’s a relatively poor defender at the 2. Monta’s one of the worst rebounders in the league. Manu’s one of the best for his position.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 17, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

This again?
Ginobili isn’t nearly as talented as Monta

Ginobili is arguably the best player on the best team in the West. Statistically Monta is not better, he just plays more minutes. Per 36, Ginobili is better at pretty much everything.

Ginobili not making the all-star team would be a bigger snub than Monta not making it.

Monta is a good, if not great player, but Ginobili is just a fantastic all around talent.

by tandy on Jan 17, 2011 10:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Ginobili is a flopper and he plays the same p**** brand of basketball

that all the annoying stars play. If anything Monta should get in for being the last remaining man in basketball

WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!

by true torture on Jan 17, 2011 10:29 PM PST up reply actions  

LOL that came out of nowhere

Kind of an overreaction don’t you think?

by tandy on Jan 17, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Ginobili is a flopper, no doubt, but that doesn’t change the fact that what he does helps his team win more than what Monta does.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions  

He wasn’t “really bad” He was just good surrounded by crap.

That “crap” managed to outscore the opposition when Monta wasn’t playing last year. The team was much, much worse when he was on the court. This is not a debatable point. It’s an objective reality.

Ginobili isn’t nearly as talented as Monta.

Talent is arbitrary, but production is not. Ginobili is far more productive than Monta. That’s not arbitrary. That’s reality.

by jae on Jan 18, 2011 6:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Monta’s played better than most of those guys

This is the problem. No, he has not. I like Monta, too, and generally like the way he’s been playing, but he’s a scoring wing, and that’s pretty much what he provides. A wing that can score is probably the least special thing there is, and it’s not like he’s a Kevin Durant level scorer or anything. I really don’t understand all this “Monta deserves it” stuff.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d say he’s had a better year than Nash, Paul, Williams, and Parker.

by Mrpolo on Jan 18, 2011 10:27 AM PST up reply actions  

That’s absurd. In what way? Steve Nash is playing just as well as he has the last few years – 19 points, 12 assists per 36 on 63% TS%. Do you realize how absurd his offense is? No, Monta does not do anything near what Nash does on offense. Nash is legitimately amazing. There’s a reason the Suns are the 4th best offense in the league (despite being a weak offensive rebounding team) – Steve Nash. If Monta were anything even close to resembling Nash, we would be better than the 13th best offense in the league (and that’s with us being an above average offensive rebounding team). Nash is really, really freaking good. Better than Monta. Chris Paul is Chris Paul. He’s one of the 5 best players in basketball, and the best PG in the NBA. He’s actually not playing as well as he has in the past (he seems to have injury issues that are holding him back), but he’s still Chris freaking Paul. 16.5 points and 10 assists per 36 on 60+% TS% with very limited turnovers is better than Monta. Deron Williams….another awesome player, and guess what – leader of another offense that’s one of the best in the NBA despite below average offensive rebounding. Why? Because Deron is awesome and putting up 21 points and 9 assists per 36 on 60+% TS%. No, Monta is not better than him.

Parker’s the only one that’s even remotely debatable, and even then, 19 and 7 and a half per 36 on 56.5% TS% looks like it might deserve the nod over 22 and a half points, and 5 assists per 36 on 55.5% TS%, though Monta does play a lot more minutes than Parker which he should be credited with. His minutes difference compared to the other guys is much smaller (the Spurs just don’t play their starters that many minutes – they don’t need to)….

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d say he’s had a better year than Nash, Paul, Williams, and Parker.

I’d say you’re wrong.

by jae on Jan 18, 2011 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Nice recap Atma!

I wish I could have been there today. I hope all the kids had a day to remember.

by olympicmike on Jan 17, 2011 8:51 PM PST reply actions  

Stephen Curry is struggling. Sure Steph’s dealt with injuries and he has to stop fouling so much, but I don’t think Coach Smart is utilizing him properly. Curry is the best player on the team, not Monta. (Yeah I said it and I believe it.) Curry needs more shots, more pick and rolls, etc. The ball needs to be in his hands and Monta needs to play off him as a more standard 2-guard. In the final month of the season last year (8 games in April) Curry averaged 26.4 ppg, 8.1 apg, 6.4 rpg, and 2.6 stl. That wasn’t a fluke and there were a few nice wins. Don Nelson knew how to use Stef-fun. Does Coach Smart? I hope so, otherwise Curry is being wasted and the Warriors are liable to make some dumb trade with Stephen that we’ll all regret.

This is exactly my thoughts on the situation.

Monta Ellis' #1 FAN!!!

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 17, 2011 8:58 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Maybe it’s an extension of Keith Smart’s “reject” philosophy. Curry is the complete opposite of a reject and thus should be punished for it.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 17, 2011 9:04 PM PST up reply actions  

+1

It seems like Keith doesn’t favor Steph as much as Nellie did. He’s using the “backcourt height disadvantage” excuse according to the chronicle. His minutes are down 3.2 (to be fair, fouls up .37 per game). I don’t know, for me, i just seems like when Steph scores and has a good night statistically, the game is a lot more fun to watch for me. Maybe it’s just because he’s my favorite player, but that’s how it is for me…

"Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron!" - Some random guy on google

by KashRocks on Jan 17, 2011 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

that was

my favorite part of this great recap. warriors played well, but i again can’t help but wonder why smart uses curry so horribly. Like others have mentioned, I’m starting to think Keith doesn’t like how Steph plays, and if that’s anywhere close to being the case, he should be fired within the minute. Not to mention another game with awful rotations and coaching decisions.

by the way, regarding our coach, he always seems to be reacting to the other coach. He’ll never make a substitution during a timeout (even when it’s fully necessary, such as when the opponents are on a big run and Curry/Lee have sat out for almost 12 minutes of game time). Then, less than a minute after that timeout, he’ll bring them in after the Warriors surrender a couple more points of their lead or get into an even bigger hole than they were in before. Why not bring them in when the ball is stopped during the timeout like a normal person? I’ve seen this happen countlessly lately and it’s beginning to infuriate me.

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Jan 17, 2011 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

After the game,

I was at zachary’s pizza, and I saw Jim Barnett. He’s a really nice guy. He took a lot of pictures with me! It was amazing!

"Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron!" - Some random guy on google

by KashRocks on Jan 17, 2011 9:50 PM PST reply actions  

Jim Barnett is a total stud. Seems like a great guy.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

crazy question...

can the dubs make the playoffs?? me thinks maybe…

"I'll have to look at the tape" - mike singletary

by okeephoss on Jan 17, 2011 10:11 PM PST reply actions  

If they win the games they're supposed to win from here on out

and steal a few…..I could see a “We Believe” type charge down the home stretch.

We’ve gotta come up with a new name/slogan should they make it into the postseason. These guys would deserve their own legacy since they are the best Warrior team of the last 3 years at this point in the season.

by ryogahibiki on Jan 17, 2011 10:23 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s probably “less likely” rather than “more likely”, but I think it’s definitely a possibility.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

hahaha - our team slogan for the playoff push this year?

Not sure if this was intended or not, but I like MB’s new slogan

It’s probably "less likely" rather than "more likely", but I think it’s definitely a possibility

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 18, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice team win..

We got a outstanding performance from Monta and Lee. Overall, just a nice, feel good win on this special day.

Fear is the Mind Killer

by dubzero23 on Jan 17, 2011 10:45 PM PST reply actions  

Dubs and Resurgent Clippers

I saw an online recap yesterday about the Clippers beating the Lakers and this story noted that the problem with the Clippers, aside from their poor start this year, was that even with the way they’ve been playing recently, they can not seem to help having miserable losses to such lowlifes as the Warriors. Last I checked, the Warriors are still ahead of them in the standings, and when the Warriors beat them the other day, the Clips played well…really well, as a matter of fact, just like they have been, except the Warriors played even better. Hard to get any respect around the league, I guess.

by dubfan4ever on Jan 17, 2011 11:20 PM PST reply actions  

David Lee on Monta

“(Ellis) is the best player I’ve ever played with,” said power forward Davie Lee. “He’s playing great, but he’s not out there hogging the ball, taking bad shots. He’s getting to the rack. He’s taking good, uncontested shots. And when he’s double-teamed, he’s finding other guys for easy plays.”

end thread

by illmaticwarrior on Jan 17, 2011 11:35 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, because if Monta was doing something wrong, the nicest guy in the NBA would totally call him out in the media.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 18, 2011 1:08 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a recap thread, dude.

That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.

by Reverend_Randy on Jan 18, 2011 3:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, you already “ended” another thread with that quote.

Dude, we get it. Without checking, I’d guess 98% of your posts on this site have consisted of some variant of the “did you hear the one about how Monta rules and Steph sucks?” one-liner. A lot of other posters here are capable of discussing things with a bit more nuance, depth and variety. Let them.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 18, 2011 4:34 AM PST up reply actions  

On the other hand, have you seen the miserable collection of talent David Lee’s played with in his career…?

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:40 AM PST up reply actions  

The best player he played with before this point: Stephon Marbury.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 18, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

@atma wisdom is earned

Throwing gas on the fire of Steph v. Monta huh? Time to change the name of this ever-progressing silly blog. What is the point?

by eshock on Jan 18, 2011 1:53 AM PST reply actions  

Well, of course, by its nature, a blog in which the main subject is a bunch of pituitary cases in shorts running around trying to put a ball in basket is going to be a little “silly” sometimes.

That said… did you actually read this diary? If you did, and all you took away from it was Atma Bro “throwing gas on the fire of Steph v. Monta” … I really don’t know what to tell you.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 18, 2011 7:51 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker

by steffun4tw on Jan 18, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Well, where he actually recaps the game

In Game Shots, the longest shot is about Curry/Smart/Nelson. He gratuitously adds the statement that Curry is a better player than Monta. There is no evidence for this assertion. There is no point in the BlogFather choosing to highlight this opinion. He also criticizes Biedrins for playing 30 minutes after finally getting some blocks and playing better.

The poison that divides the GSoM community clearly comes from the source. Everyone is aligned and very few have the maturity to change their opinions. People accuse others of acting in an inflexible manner while ignoring their own actions.

It would be healthier, if those bestowed with distinction on this site actually worked at creating harmony rather than feeling personally attacked and lashing out at dissent. You, Sleepy, are one of these enigmas. Smart and snarky, but unfortunately, unable to shake the comfort of this groupthink… “Scapegoating an individual for the troubles of this team.”

Steph Curry is not a captain, but he has shown exceptional leadership taking responsibility for his own inability to stay on the floor. The Warriors are not quite as good as they have been in the recent past, but they usually start to dominate teams in the 2nd half.

I love and respect what Monta and Lee have done as captains of this team. I really do not care which player has the ball in his hands, and who is the MVP. Coach Smart is holding players accountable and making them earn playing time, no matter the pedigree. No one is immune from this accountability. This will pay dividends the 2nd half of the season, when roles are embraced, our defense/rebounding improves, and we can finish teams off with our explosive offense.

This is a narrative that I would wish to explore. I’m not sure anyone else here does.

by eshock on Jan 18, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

No one is immune from this accountability.

Yep, not even DWright, who was benched for the rest of the 4th after not paying attention and allowing Brook Lopez to steal the ball from him. There was also a play in the 3rd qtr where the rebound came to him and he simply flubbed the ball, returning the possession back to the Nets. I think Smart sensed that DWright wasn’t fully sharp and benched him for it.

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 18, 2011 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

+1

though I do think that argument is necessary and beneficial recently it seems I can’t read anything without a curry vs monta war erupting and taking over the thread

by AHR on Jan 18, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

David Lee would crush them both! Literally!

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting thoughts. Mostly agreed on the hoops front. As you might expect, however, I have some issues with your takes on me and GSoM as a whole.

The poison that divides the GSoM community clearly comes from the source.

Meh. I pretty much reject the existence of a “poison that divides the GSoM community” in the first place. To the extent that such a thing exists, I think its source is not not nearly as “clear” as you make it out to be. I mean, in any forum of ideas, particularly one populated largely by testosterone-laden young men, you’re going to get disagreement and occasional unpleasantness (i.e. “poison”). It’s easy enough to point fingers at the “source”; it’s a lot harder to point them at oneself. Which is to say … if you want a more pleasant atmosphere here, how about contributing to it?

Yes, I’m talking to you in particular, eshock. You’re a clearly a smart guy; your posts are consistently interesting. I know you’re not here just to stir stuff up. But as long as we’re talking about “poison,” I have to say, you’re one of the most consistently dour, negative, and inharmonious posters on this site. One of the fundamental missions of this site is that it be fun. From what I’ve seen, your contributions are, like … no fun at all. Maybe try lightening up from time to time? It sounds cheezy, but you’d be surprised how often a generous, positive attitude can fundamentally change your read on things. I’m sorry, but focussing on one completely innocuous basketball comment by AB1 — in a diary as rich and magnanimous as this one — bespeaks a miserable attitude, imo.

Everyone is aligned and very few have the maturity to change their opinions.

I assume by “everyone,” you mean the GSoM staff ? If so, I couldn’t disagree more. Indeed, I think one of Atma’s best qualities as founder/writer, beyond his being smart and fun, is his appreciation of diversity and dissent. I think he’s a meritocrat at his core. If you really think he aligns narrowly with me or OM or jae or Feltbot (for example) on all topics, you haven’t been paying very close attention.

People accuse others of acting in an inflexible manner while ignoring their own actions.

Well sure — on GSoM as everywhere else in the world. Everyone’s a shameless hypocrite sometimes. It’s part of the human condition. You’re no exception.

As for me…

Smart and snarky, but unfortunately, unable to shake the comfort of this groupthink.
Smart … meh, not really. Snarky, for sure. I do make an effort to tone it down, but I accept that irony-verging-on-snark is a pretty fundamental part of my character. As for “unable to shake the comfort of groupthink” …. yeah, you seem to like to trot out that term, and I have to say, I find it pretty lame — in particular, the rather smarmy implication that you’re immune to it. You have no idea how anyone else arrived at their ideas. Here’s an idea: when in doubt, how about assuming that everyone here is just as much of free-thinker as you? No one likes to be belittled and stereotyped.

[thoughts on basketball]

Good thoughts — mostly agreed. Maybe you should try sticking to hoops talk, where you’re very insightful, and refrain from judging the character and intelligence of people you barely know.

This is a narrative that I would wish to explore. I’m not sure anyone else here does.

Yup … again with the implication that you’re the only one here with an active, open mind. Do you really not see how obnoxious that is?

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 18, 2011 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

unable to shake the comfort of this groupthink…

Implying that you are also smart but immune to groupthink. Little cocky there, aren’t ya’? I agree with Sleepy that you really ought to lighten up. It’s basketball, it’s not pop psychology time.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

How did Biedrins play? Box score looked respectable. Was back to blocking shots. What say ye, fans who saw the game?

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 8:41 AM PST reply actions  

He changed shots, played defense, etc

Lopez however was doing well from mid range jumpers.

by mosdl on Jan 18, 2011 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Rewatching the 2nd qtr which I missed

Beans did good help defense when Harris beats Curry on a couple of possessions and was able to force some TOs as well with D.

by mosdl on Jan 18, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Biedrens was looking real good

(I am biased)

A couple of nice post moves…on offense!

As always, he was a great help defender around the rim. Did a great job at staying down on pump fakes

His FT form is looking pretty good. Nice deep knee bend and relatively smooth release.

Lopez mostly ended up settling for jumpers (I think, not sure what the stats are) because Beans was holding his own on the block against him

I remember one pretty sweet P&R with him and Curry; Beans catch and finish in the air.

Also, I know it was only against the Nyets, but when Biedrens and Lee both play well, the Dubs look completely different. Great rebounding presence, pretty solid-ish D (again, we played the Nets, so the bar is pretty low). And when Lee steps out to hit those jumpers, it’s nice to have Beans down low to fight for the rebounds

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 18, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

He played good defense and his offense was efficient. Pretty happy with it.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Biedrins looked ok. He was aggressive on the glass, as he usually is, but also seemed more willing to challenge shots, which hasn’t happened much this year. He looked like a very adequate NBA center. He didn’t look better than adequate, but he didn’t look worse either.

by jae on Jan 18, 2011 7:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Begins and ends with his FT%?

It looks better, Fitz pointed out he’s even better when he gets a deeper knee bend. Biedrins needs to have enough confidence to regain his aggressiveness. He used to be a jumping bean. It would be great if he wanted to get to the line.

by eshock on Jan 18, 2011 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree that his form looks better

And his FT shots are getting OVER the rim, not clanging the FRONT of the rim. Somehow, that may still not be enough for him to regain his confidence if my observations described above are correct.

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 18, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the analysis. I always like people breaking down some film and analyzing certain plays. From your description, it definitely sounds like Biedrins needs to go at Lopez in situation #1 – if you’re right by the rim, and the only defender around is a guy your height who isn’t in great position, you need to challenge them. Make them foul you or not challenge you at all. Layups are very good things. So are free throws. Maybe you get blocked every once in a while, but overall, it’s a very efficient shot for the team with the added benefit of drawing fouls sometimes. As for situation # 2, Biedrins used to be good at making reads in the pick and roll. If he’s not slipping when he needs to or rolling hard to the hoop, that’s a problem.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions  

Oops,

I should have said that Monta was stationed at the “left wing”, not “left corner wing”. Fortunately, it doesn’t change anything else in what actually happens.

by IQofaWarrior on Jan 18, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

Nice breakdown IQ

I definitely took note of that first play you mentioned. Andris was about a step out of his range (which means he was two steps away from the basket ;-)), and had Lopez coming at him. Lee was closely guarded at the time, but his defender wasn’t in good position (exactly why he had to foul Lee), and Lopez was able to come over to help on Lee because Andris made the pass so early. I’d like to see Andris challenge Lopez, but honestly I’d rather have the ball in Lee’s hands in that situation. I think if Andris wanted to pass he should have waited another split second for Lopez to come out a step further, but he might have lost the passing lane.

It was a passive play for sure (though, not entirely a bad one). Most guys will just never look to pass that close to the hoop. He never had much in the way of killer instinct, but he definitely looks scared (or maybe passive is a better word?) at times. It’s no secret that he’s having trouble with his confidence. I hope he can work it out.

The second play I didn’t notice. I have noticed that in general he isn’t slipping screens the way he used to. At one point, back when he was playing at his best I’d say he probably slipped at least 80% of the screens he ‘set’. He almost never stuck around to actually put a body on someone. This season he is definitely holding the screens longer, and up to now I had assumed that was the way Smart wanted him to set them. It’s interesting to hear that Smart was actually calling for him to roll early. I’ll definitely keep a close eye on that.

I don’t think this team has really figured out how to run the pick and roll effectively with the current personnel yet. I think in general when you slip the screen early you are putting more pressure on the guard to make the pass. If you can’t make that quick pass with both defenders left up high then that is not going to create an advantage most of the time. I’ve seen both Monta and Steph make that pass plenty of times, but I’m not sure either one of them is particularly good at it.

On the other hand, if the screener stands his ground then it puts more pressure on the guard to make the offensive play himself. The hope is that either he looses his man, or forces the switch where he is expected to take advantage of the bigger slower defender.

One of the keys with the PnR is that your guard needs to be a good enough passer to make the roller a threat. I’m still not sure if our guards are good enough passers to accomplish that consistently. Yes they can hit the guy if there is a defensive breakdown, but if the defenders stay high and pressure the guard can they consistently make the defense pay? That is what makes Nash so amazing. If you pressure him high, he will make the pass to the roller. Is you suck in to protect against the pass, he will hit the open shot. His passing sets up his shooting, and his shooting sets up his passing. Add to that the ability to keep his dribble alive under pressure, and still make good decisions, and you’ve got a guy who is a nightmare to defend in the PnR. I think Steph has the shooting part figured out, and he’s getting there with his handles, but he hasn’t shown that he can consistently make those passes.

Anyway, thanks for the nice breakdown IQ. Good stuff.

by olympicmike on Jan 18, 2011 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Curry

got Andris some buckets.

by Anonymous1337 on Jan 18, 2011 10:23 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

steph is not the best player, by far

he has regressed from last year, seems lost, has no defense, is undersized, makes silly turnover mistakes, and his shot selection is still suspect, especially early on the clock…

him and beans need to figure it out…

Monta is playing like a bonafide superstar and he deserves an all star bid,
DWright is my backup first half MVP, really impressed with how quickly he fixes his problems and his attitude

Trade Sabean/jk...Fire the Ydorks...
What time is it? IT'S SHOWTIME BABY!!!1

by Regulus on Jan 18, 2011 10:25 AM PST reply actions  

What about Monta is like a superstar and so deserving of an all-star bid? Lots of people keep saying that, but I’m really not seeing it. Monta is a scoring wing, it’s really just not that special, and there are plenty of Western Conference guards who, simply put, do more to help their team win than he does – like, enough to fill out an All-Star team. Maybe not much more than that, but Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook, Kobe Bryant, and Manu Ginobili are half a roster, after all….

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Westbrook?!? noooo

I mean, his stats look pretty good, but if you’re to look at him like you look at Monta, than its very arguable.

He’s got a negative(-) 7.7+/- rating on a freaking winning team (the worst on his team by far), bad FG%s, bad eFG%, which isn’t surprising considering the way he plays (a lot of chucking).

So if you ask me, I’d take Monta over him as the 3rd guard on the bench…especially if the Warriors play well on this current stretch.

by 'Antoine on Jan 18, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Meh, I wouldn’t look at a +/- that includes all of 471 minutes of off court time (1281 on court). +/- is very variable. For instance, that Kevin Durant guy that posted a +16 last year is at only +3.0 this year. 2 years ago he was at -8.4. Westbrook has been +4.4 and +3.6 last year and two years ago, by the way.

Anyways, on to evaluating what Westbrook actually does. Well, he’s not an efficient scorer. No argument there, though he’s actually only been slightly below average this year (he was much worse in the past). He’s a big time playmaker, though, between his volume scoring and his over 8 assists per 36 minutes. His usage rate is over 30% (higher than Monta’s), and pretty much equal to Durant’s. As a team they’re the 9th best offense in the league (better than the Warriors), and a slightly above average offensive rebounding team (worse than the Warriors) – so Durant + Westbrook, between the two of them, are doing a pretty good job on offense. How much is attributable to Westbrook is debatable. Maybe his offense isn’t better than Monta’s. Thing is, things like defense and rebounding also matter, and Westbrook blows Monta away in those categories.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Sure…but a) One of the main knocks against Monta last year which I’m sure you used as well was his absurdly bad +/-, so I mean, cmon, let’s use the same standard to evaluate all players here, and b) even if +/- is somewhat variable, it’s still generally applicable (the truly good players usually have solid +/-, vice versa). Regardless, such a shitty +/- definitely doesn’t help Westbrook’s case.

Big-time playmaking. Ok…though last time I checked he plays the point guard position, while Ellis plays the shooting guard position. Which is probably why Ellis is more efficient. So they have different strengths, according to their positions. But while Ellis is a pretty good passer for his position (Top 25 APG, 2nd APG among non-PGs, decently ranked Assist Rate/A:T ratio, etc.), Westbrook is bad at efficiency for his position, as you’ve agreed. Irrespective of that, even comparing Westbrook’s playmaking abilities to the other PGs…it doesn’t look too impressive. He has rather low ranks in regards to Assist Rate and A:T ratio. In addition, he seems to have a rather large amount of "Jump assists’ compared to others, and when 85% of the shots Kevin Durant takes are jump shots, perhaps there is a correlation?

Better rebounding? Alright.

Better defense? Uhh, how? In my view, both are pretty bad, but Westbrook may be even worse. Ellis gathers more total defensive plays, which might not be very telling, but irrespective of that Westbrook’s defensive rating is worse by 0.92, and is also 2nd worse among PGs.

Thus, imO, the two of them should be a wash for the final spot, but at worst Westbrook shouldn’t be considered such a clear lock over Ellis.

by 'Antoine on Jan 18, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

In my view, both are pretty bad, but Westbrook may be even worse. Ellis gathers more total defensive plays, which might not be very telling, but irrespective of that Westbrook’s defensive rating is worse by 0.92, and is also 2nd worse among PGs.

What defensive rating stat is that and where did you get it from?

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 18, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

its just +/- really, on the defensive end. Which might be subject to problems, but in the lack of a better objective standard, it’s the one I know of.
But basketballvalue.com or 82games.com, though their numbers are slightly different.

by 'Antoine on Jan 18, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Ah, I’m not familiar with basketballvalue, but I know it’s better to have a lower defensive rating number than a higher one with regards to the 82games version, which Westbrook has.

by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 18, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Westbrook is generally thought of as a very good defensive PG. Of course, there’s no real objective standard of defense to use in this case, soooooo…..yeah. A couple more notes: Per game numbers overvalue Monta. Westbrook has a lot of turnovers, yes, but he also has a really high usage rate (because he also scores a lot), so it’s not really a good comparison to look at turnovers simply as a passing number. Westbrook’s efficiency isn’t “bad”, it’s just a tiny bit below average.

Last note, the thing with +/- is that there’s just so much random variation in there, it has to be supported with other evidence that points to the same thing. With Monta last year, that was the case. With Westbrook this year, it’s not, especially when you look at the positive impact he’s had on the past and consider that he’s playing better than he ever has before. That should make you skeptical of the +/-. I love +/- conceptually, and in large samples, but it needs to be taken with a huge pile of salt a lot of the time. Half a season worth is that kind of time.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 6:18 PM PST up reply actions  

Westbrook’s efficiency isn’t "bad", it’s just a tiny bit below average.

For a guy shooting as much as he is and considering he has Durant on his team, sounds like he’s hurting the offense significantly more than he’s helping. I suspect his +/- is quite telling considering how much he has the ball in his hands and how often he shoots. The score will reflect strongly what Westbrook is doing.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Dunno about that, especially considering how much higher his efficiency is this year compared to past years where he put up a positive +/-. He probably should shoot less, I don’t disagree on that, but I do disagree that the +/- is supported by other evidence.

by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2011 7:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I like how when it comes to Monta

+/- is absolutely fine to use to blame him for everything. When it comes to Westbrook (who plays less minutes), it’s all good.

Sigh.

by HerFavColor on Jan 18, 2011 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

The thing with +/- is that there’s just so much random variation in there, it has to be supported with other evidence that points to the same thing. With Monta last year, that was the case. With Westbrook this year, it’s not, especially when you look at the positive impact he’s had on the past and consider that he’s playing better than he ever has before. That should make you skeptical of the +/-.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Jan 19, 2011 5:32 AM PST up reply actions  

has no defense,…, is undersized, makes silly turnover mistakes, and his shot selection is still suspect

This goes for Monta too.

by tandy on Jan 18, 2011 12:22 PM PST reply actions  

Atma: “Defense? What’s that?”

So you think Curry is the best on the team, despite him being the worst defender and want Biedrins gone despite him being the most important defender on the team? If you were GM, you’d be fired so hard.

Also, saying that the NBA is special for celebrating MLK is silly. Anyone can put a show on. It doesn’t make them special. Superficial, a bit, are we?

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 6:00 PM PST reply actions  

You know whats weird is that

all the good rookies from last year Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, and Stephen Curry have all been so bad this year. well actually maybe not Brandon Jennings.

by Curry for the win on Jan 18, 2011 6:36 PM PST reply actions  

Curry’s been okay. I don’t think he’s been “so bad” at all. He’s doing fine.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Jan 18, 2011 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

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