Trade Idea
by Neon on Jan 27, 2011 12:50 PM PST
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Print(http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4jy2lo9)
Warriors get:
Danny Granger
TJ Ford
Pacers get:
Steph Curry
Vladimir Radmanovic
Dan Gadzuric
Brandan Wright
If you believe that Curry and Ellis are not the best match and there's a need to upgrade defensively I think this trade is pretty solid. While I really like Curry's game it remains true that, unless you're the Lakers and are acquiring one of the best 3 centers in the game, you have to give something up to get something. I've liked Danny Granger's game for a long time and I think he could play well off of Monta, who likes to have the ball in his hands. Granger plays exceptional defense, shoots the 3 well (so he could convert off off Monta's drive and kicks), and would immediately make the team a lot tougher and bigger.
The other pieces are mainly thrown together to make the money work. (For the uninitiated the total salaries need to be within 25% of one another to be allowed if either team would go over the cap.) Indiana would likely not be interested in the other pieces with the possible exception of Wright but most of the money comes off the books at year's end. Ford has one of the worst contracts in the league but it's expiring and he could help make up for the loss of Steph as far as handling some of the ball-handling responsibilities. The Warriors would lose some size but I think getting Udoh more minutes and letting Lou play a little more would work fine, and we can always go after someone else in a trade or sign another Warriors favorite, a D-Leaguer.
From the Pacers' perspective they get a great young player who's still in only the second year of his rookie contract. Curry will be popular anywhere he goes so he'll help sell tickets, too. He feels like a fit in Indiana, but that's more of a gut thing; I think they'll like him. His phenomenal shooting would work nicely with Hibbert's low-post game and other low post guys like Hansbrough, who's pretty good. If a team is going to give up a very good player like Granger they'll require a very good player in return; I think Curry's good enough to entice them.
Food for thought, what do you think of the trade?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I'd do it
But they just got Collison, why get Curry?
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Curry can play the 2 as well and could probably play with Collison at times. He’d help them space the floor.
your words:
If you believe that Curry and Ellis are not the best match and there’s a need to upgrade defensively I think this trade is pretty solid.
Why should we assume the Pacers won’t think that if we do? And Collison is quite a bit smaller than Monta.
Thing A
"Correlation between inability to use the reply button and general crappiness of analysis: pretty high." -Sleepy Freud
yea but the difference is that
collison doesnt score 25-30 a game. and montas got some quick hands for those steals
Steph + Monta for Prez
But they just got Collison, why get Curry?
True, Perhaps Monta for granger but they wouldnt do the trade either way I think.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 28, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Replace Curry with Monta, and it could work
They already have Collison.
Also if you want a good trade, here are a few ideas.
Trade with LAC to get Jordan and Baron, give them Andris and Expirings.
Trade with NYK and DENVER to get NENE and Afflolo, give up Andris and Ellis and Expirings…also possibly take in Eddy Curry’s Contract….NYK get Melo and filler….DENV gets Andris Ellis Galanary Randolph picks and fillers.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
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Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
LAC TRADE:
(Basic premise of trade http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6jflqg9)
- Why LAC does it? Drop Barons contract, and have enough money to sign their young players…Jordan RFA, they cannot afford.
-Why we do it? We get a solid 3 guard rotation and a perfect starting center for our system. Young, athletic, great post defender, great weakside defender, SIZE.
DENV/NYK trade:
(basic premise of trade: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4mq73pp)
-Why Denver does it? they get talent back for Melo who they will lose, and get a lot of young talent as well.
- Why NYK does it? Melo
- Why we do it? we get one of the better centers in the league, who would be perfect for our team. Excellent on both ends. We get a great guard who is an elite defender and can knock down open 3’s.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Good ideas
The Clippers trade is interesting but would result in our bringing back a lot of long-term money, assuming the team signs DeAndre Jordan, who’s a big part of doing the deal. It gets rid of the Biedrins money to help offset but Baron’s contract is a tough one. Kaman’s deal is only for 1 year after this one. I think it’s definitely interesting b/c of the 3 guard rotation you mention and not having to give up Curry or Ellis.
I’m not sold on the Knicks / Nuggets trade b/c we’d be giving up Ellis to get good but not amazing players. Nene’s a nice piece but he’s constantly hurt. Eddy Curry is terrible but at least his contract’s expiring and gets us off the hook for Biedrins’ money. Afflalo’s a nice piece and could be in a rotation but his deal’s done after this year. I’d be less excited about this trade but I think both of them are worth considering if they were on the table.
about the lac trade need to spend money to have good players on our team.
about the DEN/NYK trade. I think you are underrating how huge of a difference a center like NENE will make playing along side curry/wright/lee. He can play both ends very well EVERY NIGHT against all other centers. He is still relatively young.
Afflolo is a RFA as far as I know so we can get him back, he would be a perfect compliment to play along side Steph…he is an excellent/elite defender, has size, rebounds, and does not make mistakes. He can shoot the open shots. He would obv be a final option, but we’d already have so many threats having an elite wing defender is key.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
never in a million years
would the warriors want the remainder of barons contract. and seeing as there’s no indication that curry is or watns to slide to the 2 again, nuh uh
Steph + Monta for Prez
btw I have really tried to think about trading partners where both sides would get what they want.
Our only places are: LAC, NYK, DEN, MEM, PHI, IND.
I picked LAC, NYK/DEN as the two most probably because both sides would really get the best out of it for what they are looking for. IE: Talent or smaller contracts or both. With us taking on larger contracts.
And about Baron coming back…If he is motivated he will be a great learning tool for Curry in the future and will allow us to have an EXCELLENT 3 guard rotation that can actually defend. We would also get the exact kind of center I’d want for our team outside of the untouchable ones (ie: Howard)
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I'd love to see Jordan on the Warriors!
by SmittytheCutman on Jan 27, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
I’d love to see Jordan on the Warriors!
A whole lot of us would I suspect.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 28, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Our point guards would then be Monta Ellis and TJ Ford?
I’m not really down for that.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 27, 2011 1:31 PM PST reply actions
I'm not really down for trading Curry
I think he’s going to be a better player than Granger. I’m not sure I’m ready to trade Monta right now, either. I’d rather patch up our defense, get bigger on the block, and sign some good veteran role players who can score off the bench and defend solidly every game this off-season.
Sounds like a recipe for .500 basketball. At some point we have to stop the opposing guards’ penetration and I don’t know how we do that with Curry and Ellis playing 35+ minutes a night together.
I'm down for .500 basketball
Until we get a better idea of who will be the better basketball player between the two. Granted, I think Ellis could move to point and play with a 2 who has distributing skills. But maybe you’re right. Maybe we should just trade everyone on the team, really.
I don't think we're getting Baron Davis..
I can’t see Baron, Ellis AND Curry playing together…. Though it’d be fun haha
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
As far as the pacers go, I think this is the only trade we could make that would make sense for both teams
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4rr3tk2
We would be getting good building block players, a player that can actually play along side Curry. We would lose Andris’s contract and would be in the hunt to sign someone in FA.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
PLEASE! for the LOVE of all things good summarize yer fricken trades in your post!!!!!!
common courtesy guys!
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 27, 2011 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Why would they give up on PG snd a big expiring
And take back Andris?
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
If we wanted to trade with NOLA in a relatively unrealistic trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=48f46fs
I’d love for this trade to happen, never would, but would love it.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
lol...well at least my trade was KINDA plausible a-la the KG or Pau Gasol trades.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
PLEASE! for the LOVE of all things good
summarize yer fricken trades in your post!!!!!!
common courtesy guys!
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 27, 2011 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
sorry man
I will spread my message of anger
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 27, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
I think the Pacers are looking to go the other direction.
There were some rumors about Granger being dealt but the latest thing I heard was that the Pacers were considering dealing their pick and young assets for a veteran. (I think they’d be smart to sell high on Hibbert before they overpay him but apparently Roy’s untouchable.)
I'd trade GADzilla
for picks
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 27, 2011 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Simple, quick and to the point. I like it.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 27, 2011 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Not ready to give up on either Steph or Monta
It’s too early to tell, and this team is too incomplete to decide whether Steph or Monta can get this team to the postseason. This team needs depth, at the Center and Guard position. Our starting 5 ROUTINELY plays pretty well with the exception of Andris. I’d like to see the Dubs do something with our expirings to bring in rotation players, rather then try to bolster our starting lineup. Our biggest problem right now is that whenever Lee, Monta, Curry, or Wright go to the bench, whoever comes in as the backup can’t A. Defend better than the starter or B. Offensively provide anything.
id rather have steph next to iggy, than monta next to iggy.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 27, 2011 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If you believe that Curry and Ellis are not the best match and there's a need to upgrade defensively I think this trade is pretty solid.
it would be better to keep binky and send Montay for granger if you want him. If we’re only gonna keep one might as well keep the one with the best point guard skills.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 27, 2011 9:42 PM PST reply actions
what makes you think Steph is a better PG? He’s averaging 5.9 assists/game versus Monta’s 5.6 assists/game. I don’t either guy is truly a PG but I think Monta’s clearly a much better player right now.
what makes you think Steph is a better PG?
cause I got eyes.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2011 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
you must have done well in speech and debate
yeah, ball don’t lie.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2011 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Comparing per-game numbers makes Monta look better than he is because he plays a lot more minutes.
When you compare per 36, you see that Curry creates substantially more assists per minute he’s on the floor.
He also rebounds better and shoots better.
You can’t dismiss staying on the floor, though. Curry’s often not on the floor b/c of his fouling, his bad defense or his ankle injury. that does matter.
they have the same FG% (47%) but I’d agree Curry is a better shooter. You’d have to agree Ellis is better at attacking the basket and getting to the rim. He’s also been the opposing team’s focus for the entire season. The rebounding difference is so slight it’s hard to factor but the .2 reb/game difference does exist.
Playing more minutes doesn’t make Monta any more of a PG, though. What it does do is make his assists per game number overstate his passing ability.
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
It's true that the ability of a good player to stay on the floor is valuable -
But the reality is that a player would not have to be very good at all to, playing those extra minutes, make the combination of Curry+backup better than Monta … because Curry is really really good.
For example, if Curry was replaced in those minutes by the worst rebounder on the team, Acie Law, we actually get over half an additional rebound/game, which, since most possesions net us a point, means half a point more, which is worth a couple of wins a season. In practice, he’s often NOT replaced by Acie Law – he’s often replaced by Reggie, which means that we’d be getting .9 rebounds a game more, almost a whole extra point.
Talking about FG% is misleading because Curry takes more 3s and makes them at a higher rate. This makes his 47% result in more points than Monta’s 47% on the same number of shots.
now let’s factor in the points we give back by having Curry + Williams playing defense…
both players have very nice FG% for guards. Curry being a good shooter is the single reason he’s valuable.
anyhow, curious, do you think Curry is better than Ellis right now?
Curry’s also a solid rebounder for his position, creates turnovers (steals, and I’m not trying to say this makes him good on defense, just that turnovers are a good thing), and while I think we all want him to improve as a distributor, is still pretty close to average for a PG. He’s more than just a good shooter….
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
If you want to factor in those points, don't you also have to factor the points Monta gives up?
Yes, I think Curry is a clearly better player than Monta.
The statistical argument is unambiguous: He is a better scorer on nearly-as-high volume per minute. He is better distributing the ball with comparable turnovers. He rebounds more, and rebounding well has a strong correlation with winning.
Furthermore, the subjective evalutation leads to a similar place: the team offense flows much better when is on the floor. It appears that the whole team plays more unselfishly with him as the primary ball handler. He has a more valuable skill-set (good dynamic wing scorers are not particularly rare compared to players who can run an offense).
Curry is clearly still improving, whereas with Monta its hard to say, but further improvement seems unlikely because of his age. Curry seems to trust in his teammates more, and really it’s quite fascinating how he manages to get as many shots as he does without shutting down the team offense the way Monta sometimes does when he’s running point.
The two advantages Monta has are his ability to play monster minutes (although, as I demonstrated above, he’s not so good that it’s clear that he makes up for his other shortcomings by playing more minutes) and better defense – the latter of which, in practice, makes less difference than it should because he’s essentially playing out of position.
Your points are well made; I simply disagree
it’s funny how two people who clearly watch a lot of Warriors basketball come to different conclusions
And that kind of disagreement is what leads to interesting discussion…
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
It's not Monta's fault he plays 40+ minutes
Of course if you were to assume he played less minutes the numbers would go down
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Stop talking about trading Curry for anything less than a superstar.
22 year old point guards with 2 years of team control left on them while being an amazingly efficient scorer don’t come around that often. His defense sucks because of his fouling but with maturity and good health, i think he can easily qualm the problem.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 27, 2011 11:29 PM PST reply actions
I would agree that Curry smarts will enable him to make adjustments as he matures. He will develope his defense as far as his physical limits would allow. If its not Chris Paul I wouldnt consider a Curry trade.
by Only In Fairfax on Jan 28, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
If its not Chris Paul I wouldnt consider a Curry trade.
not for BlakeGriffin?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Deron Williams?
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 28, 2011 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
I like Curry but...
I think your point is symptomatic of a bigger point, that Warriors fans overvalue their own talent. Show me a superstar that’s available for Curry and I’ll be very surprised, but delighted. As far as his defense, saying it “sucks b/c of his fouling” is misleading. The fouling is symptomatic of his bad defense, not the cause of it. Another sign that his defense is terrible is the fact that when you watch the games the guy he’s guarding does whatever he wants, to the point that Smart has taken him out of the end of games to avoid having his defense on the floor. Some guys are simply terrible defenders, even some great players, like Steve Nash. (Remember how Baron would abuse him?) The key is not having too many of them and learning how to hide those deficiencies.
And I will talk about whatever I’d like to talk about but you are more than welcome to ignore it.
True, but because of his offensive skill set -
- Monta is pretty much just as bad a defender, as he’s lined up against bigger guards.
If Monta had a PG’s game offensively, that’d be less of an issue. But he doesn’t.
this is more subjective but I think Ellis is a much better defender than Curry. I don’t even think it’s close, personally, but I admit this is subjective.
I think most people on here do think Ellis plays better D than Curry. It’s “how much” that’s more debatable….
by Missing Barry on Jan 28, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
debatable….
In a debate, we would also label it “false consolation”
just because Monta’s D could be worse, does NOT mean that it is good
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 28, 2011 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you.
My point is that his advantage defensively is negated by the fact that, defensively, he’s forced to play out of position.
I think there is no debate that Monta has the tools to be a far superior defender than Curry (maybe never a great defender at the SG position because of size limitations). But from my subjective view, both of them do the exact same things on defense all the time – let their guy blow by them and try to reach behind for a steal.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 28, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
this is more subjective but I think Ellis is a much better defender than Curry
you gotta take his position into account though, Binky is not as bad compared to other point guards as Montay is compared to other 2 guards. We can hide
Stef’s deficiency easier than we can hide Montay’s.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2011 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
you contradicted yourself there.
Thats why there seems to be a closer discrepancy between Ellis and Curry. Ellis defends SG, while curry defends PG. Switch their defensive assignments and Curry becomes terrible.
Switch their defensive assignments and Curry becomes terrible.
but put them both with a proper 2 guard and Binky is a much better point guard. It’s not like they are twins , they are two different players so their comparisons are not as important as their specific traits for their position.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 28, 2011 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
Steph Curry is pretty damn good
But to say he’s better than Monta at this point is a nono. He has the talent, but he’s not having the season he should be having.
Yeah. How he improve in almost every way from last year, despite battling injuries?
I’m reminded of Carl Lewis’s comment about the time Ben Johnson ran a (steroid-assisted, though we didn’t know that yet) a world record, while Lewis ended up running something in the ballpark of his personal best.
Reporter goes up to Lewis:
“What went wrong?”
Monta has improved a lot form last season, and deserves credit for that. But it’s hard to make an argument that he’s better than Curry that doesn’t rely on the always-dubious PPG.
to say he’s better than Monta at this point is a nono.
He’s better than Monta at this point.
Am I grounded?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 28, 2011 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
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