Warriors Game Day Links #47: Golden State Warriors 96 vs Utah Jazz 81 - 4th qtr garbage time... in Warriors favor!
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Warriors: Golden State of Mind
Recap: Recap #47: Utah Jazz 81 @ Golden State Warriors 96 - Fools Gold?
Game thread: GameThread #47: Utah Jazz at Golden State Warriors - Better Late Than Never (1260+ comments)
SBN BA: SBNation Bayarea's Warriors Page
StoryStream: No Deron Williams and Mehmet Okur, Plenty Of Stephen Curry, Warriors Snap Losing Streak Against Jazz
Jazz: SLC Dunk
Recap: Jazz Fail To Get A W Against The Ws
Game thread: Game Thread - Utah Jazz @ Golden State Warriors
Preview: Preview - Utah Jazz @ Golden State Warriors
Recaps
Associated Press: Warriors snap four-game skid, beat Jazz 96-81 | Photo Gallery
Sports Network: Curry leads Warriors over struggling Jazz
Marcus Thompson II: Golden State Warriors snap losing streak, beat Utah Jazz
Rusty Simmons: Warriors overcome Ellis' bad night, beat Jazz
Adam Lauridsen: And Now For Something Completely Different (Warriors 96, Jazz 81)
Pregame News
- No pregame news found.
Pregame Videos
Keith Smart before the game.
Stephen Curry before the game.
Video link: Keith Smart on NBATV
Postgame News
- Keith Smart wants to see more glass crashing. Plus other notes.
Marcus Thompson II: Golden State Warriors update: Better team rebounding is sought
- A little Keith Smart pregame quip about forgetting the previous game.
Rusty Simmons: Warriors' opening tip
Postgame Videos
Jaymee Sire interviews Reggie Williams right after the game.
Keith Smart at the podium.
David Lee in the locker room.
Andris Biedrins in the locker room.
CSN highlights, recap.
Highlights by gumbyorpokey.
Recap and highlights from nba.com's game page:
Up and Under
Head On Collision
Coast-to-Coast
Jazz vs. Warriors: Highlights, recap
nba.com: Nightly Notable
Postgame Quotes and Stuff from warriors.com recap
Keith Smart
On Monta Ellis having an off-shooting night:
"I could see it. I’ve been around him so I can feel…and I was trying to let him work into it but I just thought the guys really rallied around and they picked up the slack. We have to have that when one of those guys Monta (Ellis), Steph (Stephen Curry), Dorell (Wright) or David (Lee) are not playing well someone has to step up big. I thought Reggie (Williams) did a good job and the energy by Lou (Amundson) provided that for us tonight. Andris (Biedrins) played well, second game in a row he’s done some good things for us, but I just felt that the energy wasn’t there for him right at the start. Sometimes that’s going to be that way. The guy (Monta Ellis) has done so much for us already, but I think Reggie (Williams) did a good job when he was in there."
On Andris Biedrins having back-to-back double-doubles:
"We just have to keep communicating with him, not just myself but the guards and the forwards who play the most minutes with him. It’s important that all of our guys help each other have a good game. It’s important that when they see someone struggling…it’s not from the coaching staff all the time."
On Stephen Curry's game:
"Well I told him not to defer. I said to him ‘Don’t defer to the players, you still have to play your game and keep yourself going.’ There were a couple of times where he tried to get Monta (Ellis) a couple of shots there, but it did open up things for him to be aggressive when he’s (Monta Ellis) not playing the way we know he’s capable of playing."
David Lee
On tonight's game:
"I don’t think tonight’s win was won on the offensive end, we didn’t score 115 points. Monta (Ellis) played very good defense, had a bunch of loose balls. Tonight’s game was won on the defensive end. If we can play that way defensively then we’re going to make enough shots to win if we don’t then we move on to the next game. But the way we did tonight, we have been talking about our defense being soft the last few games, our defense was not soft tonight. The second unit played the entire fourth quarter and did an incredible job. It was team basketball."
Andris Biedrins
On the media's perception of him:
"I never read anything even if it’s good or bad. I know what I have to do. I am getting back on track and I am happy about that. I’m going to keep working and more to come."
On out-rebounding the Jazz:
"I think we did really well especially when the bench came in Lou (Amundson) had 11 rebounds in 18 minutes. Everybody was taking care of the ball. They are a good rebounding team."
On his relationship with Coach Smart:
"Me and Keith (Smart) always had a great relationship since the first day I got here. He’s always been here for me and always making sure I am doing alright. He came for a couple of summers to Latvia to see how I’m doing and how I’m working. That tells you how much he cares about you. After good or bad games he calls or texts me after the game and says good job or don’t worry we’ll get there. I think it’s a special relationship like that if a coach can call you after the game and tell you, you did a good job or you didn’t do so good but you still have that communication."
Notes
- No interesting notes to add tonight.
What's next?
- We get 3 days off before the next game against the Bucks on Thurs.
- Matt Steinmetz with his weekly chat on his chat page, usually Weds around noon.
| Day | Date | Time | Opponent | TV | Radio |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Thu | Feb 03 | 7:30pm | Bucks | CSNBayHD | KNBR 680 |
| Sat | Feb 05 | 7:30pm | Bulls | CSNBayHD | KNBR 680 |
| Mon | Feb 07 | 7:30pm | Suns | CSNBayHD | KNBR 680 |
| Wed | Feb 09 | 7:30pm | Nuggets | CSNBayHD | KNBR 680 |
| Thu | Feb 10 | 6:00pm | @Suns | CSNBayHD | KNBR 1050 |
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Comments
I enjoyed watching this game
For 31:33 of the game, we were pretty much playing 4-on-5, yet we still blew out the Utah Jazz (albeit in a funk not seen in a long time and in the absence of Deron Williams)
I don’t need to say what else I think about it. Good win, Warriors.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
It definitely doesn't hurt :)
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
Added
Pregame Keith Smart on NBATV. nba.com videos: Head On Collision, Coast-to-Coast, Nightly Notable
the one minute at the end he gave to BW was sorta a joke but, the rotations seemed really nice
for the most part
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
I wish...
… I had the perspective of the coaches on Wright. Because to me and many other fans, he should be getting more PT but obviously Coach Smart doesn’t think he’s ready for that – I just wish I knew why.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130480356680 in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130480356680 in Ebay!
I voted Curry
But I liked Biedrins tonight. It’s nice having an NBA quality Center out there.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
Three FT’s in a row! That guy is the most exciting to watch at the FT line of anyone in the league. Seriously, when I’ve got DVR, everyone else is fast forwarded except him. ha ha
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Also, Beans with his second consecutive double double!
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 30, 2011 10:46 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
props to him for that.. hustled nicely tonight..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
glad they got the win this time too!
Must be rough to finally start playing well…but your team still loses
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 31, 2011 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
ya, the win in hindsight must be HUGE for beans.. hes sorta fragile emotionally
hopefully this builds him up and he can keep up this level of intensity..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'll be back in 45 min to an hour
Got some stuff to do first
That was the first game I have seen this season where
Smart actually coached well…
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I agree.
Except for Acie Law…that dude just is horrible. Nice to see Vlad with the DNP and us playing some real bigs.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 30, 2011 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
I can't complain about Acie playing
He brings good defense, zero offense…but the real key is he allows Curry to rest, which is needed…IE coached well..If it was another backup PG it would obviously be even better…
all in all, very happy with the coaching tonight….i think thats the first time I have said that all season.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 30, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
It's not like we have another option
And he plays decent defense
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
How can you say he coached well? Captain clutch didn't get in!
;)
It was a good team effort tonight, at least Monta passed and defended well since he was well…… I have no idea shooting wise
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
his defense was pretty poor
he lost raja too many times…and raja isn’t even a real offensive threat
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 30, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
He played the lanes well and bothered ball handlers
Off ball , different story
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Monta played very good defense.
Had a bunch of loose balls according to David Lee. He said defense won the game. I didn’t see the game, but getting a win like this after the past four makes me feel better.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
but ya good to see he didnt force it like last game
he deffered a lot more, knew he wasn’t feeling it
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 30, 2011 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
funny thing
was that before the game, I was talking to a friend about Monta’s maturity this season and how is next step is really going to be deferring to teammates more…
this was a little extreme (as far as Monta’s lack of offense) but hopefully it indicates that Monta realized that him scoring a bunch (or taking a bunch of shots) does not equal team wins
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 31, 2011 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
defended well... about that
raja (or whoever he was guarding for that matter) burned him on a consistent basis for open jumper after open layup. He seemed completely disinterested, as if he’s fed up
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
I don’t really get this comment, on the basis that what a coach does during non-game time is so, so, so much more important than what he does during the game. There’s just not much to in-game coaching…
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
Idk what games you watch
but Smart does an awful job in game coaching. He runs certain players to the point where I worry they will get injured (like Monta is looking right now). He does not run good offensive sets that are best for our players (like posting up andris rather than running any PnR).
His substitution patters are down right awful, other than in this game. Monta never gets any rest. Reggie doesn’t get enough PT. Curry gets taken out way too easily. Vladrad plays too much, Udoh/Amundson play too little.
This was the first game where we had a normal rotation, with normal PT.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
I don’t agree with the offensive sets comment. We run a lot of flex action, which seems to me suits our offensive personnel well. We run a decent amount of handoffs at time, another thing that fits out personnel. I honestly don’t think we’ve been very effective in pick and roll when we’ve tried it, and things like Andris posting up are few and far between.
As for rotations, well, you seem to have a problem with his rotations. Ok. It’s still not all that important on the list of “what a coach does”….
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
As for rotations, well, you seem to have a problem with his rotations. Ok. It’s still not all that important on the list of "what a coach does"….
I’d think that putting the best players on the court in the best combinations has a huge effect on the outcome of the games. Sure it might not be a huge part of his coaching effort compared to offensive and defensive schemes, running practices, managing player personalities, calling plays, and such, but if you subscribe to the idea that, in general, better players win games then you’d have to consider minute distribution as a pretty important part of a coaches job.
by olympicmike on Jan 31, 2011 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
Well two things.
Sure it might not be a huge part of his coaching effort compared to offensive and defensive schemes, running practices, managing player personalities, calling plays, and such
This is the important point I believe. And I’m not such a believer in the importance of schemes as I am in getting all the players to actually execute the scheme. They gotta buy in, they gotta know their responsibilities at all times, and be committed to doing their job, and then ultimately, going out there and executing it. That’s the biggest piece of coaching. Getting guys to execute, make the right decisions on a consistent basis, and ultimately play good team basketball on both sides. I think the scheme needs to fit the personnel, but in terms of NBA schemes – they all exist for a reason. Because they all made it apst the point where the ones that don’t work got left behind. Basically, they all work on a fairly equal level, if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be used.
if you subscribe to the idea that, in general, better players win games then you’d have to consider minute distribution as a pretty important part of a coaches job.
Sure. I’m just not sure the distribution, in terms of the effect is has on wins, is all that big between most coaches. I’m also wary of the idea that Smart’s rotations are having a big negative impact. I’m open to evidence if someone has a compelling case, though!
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
This is the important point I believe. And I’m not such a believer in the importance of schemes as I am in getting all the players to actually execute the scheme. They gotta buy in, they gotta know their responsibilities at all times, and be committed to doing their job, and then ultimately, going out there and executing it. That’s the biggest piece of coaching. Getting guys to execute, make the right decisions on a consistent basis, and ultimately play good team basketball on both sides. I think the scheme needs to fit the personnel, but in terms of NBA schemes – they all exist for a reason. Because they all made it apst the point where the ones that don’t work got left behind. Basically, they all work on a fairly equal level, if they didn’t, they wouldn’t be used.
Well said. When you think of coaches like Sloan, Pop, and Jackson it’s not like they are running magic plays that no one else knows, they just have a system for getting players to perform on the court. They might do it in very different ways, but they are able to get the most effort and best execution from the available talent (it doesn’t hurt that these guys have usually had plenty of talent at their disposal).
I think this comment actually helped clarify your position from our last conversation about San Antonio. When I use the term “system” I’m thinking of it in a much more wholistic way than just the type of offense or defense they like to run. It’s much closer to what you describe above. It’s the coach’s way of getting players to believe in what he is asking them to do, and put in the kind of effort and focus to execute on the court the way the coach intends. It’s the way he teaches, disciplines, runs practices, handles one on one conversations, and much more. It sounds like we pretty much agree there.
Now I would add that I do think there are certain schemes that are better suited to certain personnel, but that could be secondary to a coaches ability to get any personnel to run his proven NBA scheme well.
Sure. I’m just not sure the distribution, in terms of the effect is has on wins, is all that big between most coaches. I’m also wary of the idea that Smart’s rotations are having a big negative impact. I’m open to evidence if someone has a compelling case, though!
I’m not sure the distribution either. I’m trying to be fair with Coach Smart. Frankly just because he hasn’t built credibility as an NBA coach yet doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a plan, or positive long term intent behind some of his puzzling moves. It’s hard though…
Back when Pop was coming down very hard on Tony Parker, limiting his minutes, and publicly criticizing him, he had already brought a title to San Antonio, and he still fell under criticism for not playing the young PG enough, or beating him up mentally. That certainly worked out.
Does Smart deserve the same kind of trust in this situation? I’m really not sure. I’d like to think that him leaving Curry on the bench for extended stretches will eventually make him a better player for us, but I find it very hard to trust in that during the games.
He might have a better plan for our bench, but I can’t help but think we are better suited by having Lou, Reggie, and Brandan or Udoh playing more than Vlad, Gadz, and Law.
Then there is the way he makes wholesale substitutions instead of bringing in subs one or two at a time. I think our bench is just too weak to have 4-5 subs on the court at once ever. He’s gotten better about this, but there are still games where he rides the starting five until they all need a blow at the same time. It just doesn’t seem like he has the foresight to avoid those situations consistently.
I’m sure I’m not giving him the same benefit of the doubt as I would a proven NBA veteran coach, but I really am trying to be fair. It’s not easy sometimes though.
Ah, well said in that first part. I think we’re on a much clearer level of understanding now. I definitely wasn’t interpretting your words on the system that way before. Makes a lot more sense now.
As for Smart, a couple of things have made me relax on the criticisms of the rotations. First, earlier in the year, we were all flipping out about Vlad. He was the poster boy of Smart’s bad rotations. I was as frustrated as anyone. Well? Smart stuck with Vlad and it actually worked out. Looks to me like he had a better understanding of any of us what to expect ouf of Vlad going forward, even if he wasn’t performing to start the season. A little dose of humility helps sometimes. I took mine. :) I’ve also started to see some of the things Smart sees in Vlad. He does some little things that are good on both sides of the floor, even if his lack of rebounding and on ball defense still frustrate me.
Next, I tried to think of things from Smart’s point of view. Why might he make the rotations he’s making? What might I do differently? Thinking about it some, I’ve actually come to think his plan, for the most part, really does make sense. Dorell plays a lot because we flat out don’t have a replacement for him. Curry/Monta/Reggie is a brutal combination. Our top minute getters are: Monta, Dorell, Lee, Curry, Biedrins, Reggie, Vlad, in that order. Makes a lot of sense to me, especially since the two starters at the bottom of the MPG (Biedrins/Curry) are our two starters who foul the most. Next two are Acie (don’t have a backup PG!) and Lou. Still makes sense to me. It might have taken a little bit to figure this rotation out, and it’s going to change some on matchups and foul trouble in any given game, but it looks to me like overall that’s a pretty reasonable rotation.
Gadz really hasn’t played much either in total or in the games he’s gotten time. We gave Carney a shot before realizing he’s not adding anything, something we realized at an apprpriate time (balance between giving him as much of a shot to show what he has as possible and maknig sure he doesn’t play so much he hurts the team). I think overall, that allocation really isn’t that bad. I’d like to see Monta play a little less, Reggie a little more, and Brandan a little more (with Vlad probably playing more wing than big going forward), but those are mostly minor quibbles over a few minutes here or there. I also don’t like playing all our subs at once. I wish that would stop. Probably my biggest concern, but I’m still not sure I can convince myself it’s a big deal.
A couple other things of note: I don’t like the iso calls for Monta in the two games we won. I also think we’ve relied too much on Monta creating shots in general. Look at how well we played last night with Monta playing completely within the flow of the offense. Great stuff. Of course it could have been because of our opponent, or because it was a single game, or a combination. But we really do have a decent amount of offensive talent among our starters, and if Andris is attacking the rim like he was last night, we have a very good offensive squad. We don’t need to be so Monta-centric, especially since Monta does some very nice things in the flow of the offense. So I’d like to see a more diverse offense that puts Monta in less creation situations overall. So those are my complaints. At the same time, I have no major complaints about our scheme besides less Monta as primary ballhandler – I understand we haven’t run PnR that much, but I think we haven’t shown we can run it effectively, either.
I guess overall I just see solid reason for a lot of what Smart’s doing. I have quibbles, but I don’t think they’re huge deals. I don’t think most of the quibbles are all that important, either, and the important stuff is all the behind the scenes things I don’t get to see. I’m not necessarily pro-Smart, I haven’t seen anything that makes me all that optimistic on him, I’m just not really anti-Smart, either. I’d still probably lean towards replacing him at the end of the season because I don’t see a reason to settle for anything less than the best. Let’s try to find our own Thibodeau. I’m just not too upset about the job he’s doing in the meantime.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Smart stuck with Vlad and it actually worked out.
but a real coach smart would have not played him UNTIL he actually worked out, someone else(anyone) woulda been the better choice for many of those games.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2011 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Ah yes, that stupid Keith Smart, not being able to see the future like good coaches can!
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Ah yes, that stupid Keith Smart, not being able to see the future like good coaches can!
it’s not the future that wins games it’s the present.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
nice take on the whole thing.. i think i pretty much agree with your pros and cons...
more wright, udoh and lin and i’ll be happy.
our inbounds plays have looked pretty solid.. according to dumbfitz and barnett, why cant all our plays be structured like a inbounds play darnit lol
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
Udoh was the first big off the bench last night, so we have that going. Smart’s played around with the rotations so far this year, but the end result is actually something quite reasonable, and it does look like he’s figuring out what he wants to do to a better extent, and it’s much more in line with what people think should happen.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yup i agree.. i got the plank all ready for smart to walk but
now im not sure about it just yet… lol…
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
Get Ready for Jeremy Lin's return
Whether you like him or not, Lin has to come back because Acie is injured and hiding it. Smart will help cover as best he can but it is obvious Law’s wrist and knee are bad. He cannot go to his right without losing the ball. It’s time to see if Lin can do anything, otherwise ship him out.
agreed
Law is clearly hurt…and as far as I know Lin has been doing well in the D league. Maybe that experience helps make him ready to come up now.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Jan 30, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
good win.. but my heart
is still mending from the Bobcat loss…
The 3 teams that will most likely end up with a top 3 draft pick in 2012 are Carolina, Tennessee, & Buffalo. So can we trade to obtain that? To increase our chances to get Andrew Luck of course :)
I enjoyed seeing monta defer rather than trying to shoot himself out of a funk and the team out of the game
by JustSomeName on Jan 30, 2011 10:18 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I hear Lin's been dominating D-League
So if he comes back as our backup PG and we play a rotation similar to tonite (with Reggie getting some more burn) we’ll finally have a good rotation. But i just doubt that will happen based off what i’ve seen so far.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 30, 2011 10:25 PM PST reply actions
Everybody dominates d league
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Jan 30, 2011 10:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Somewhere in North Dakota
Patrick O’Bryant sheds a tear upon reading your comment.
"I don't get out of bed, for a million bucks!"
- Edgar Renteria or a hooker bribing a family man?
by Scooter Ellis on Jan 30, 2011 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
Brace yourself
Patrick O’Bryant is a team mate of Lins on the Reno Bighorns. His game hasn’t changed much
LOL
9 pts and 5 boards per night in the D-league as a former lottery pick is…sad. Maybe he’ll dominate in an intramural league…
"I don't get out of bed, for a million bucks!"
- Edgar Renteria or a hooker bribing a family man?
by Scooter Ellis on Jan 31, 2011 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
POB would have been a great second round flier. The big question is why we spent a top 10 pick on a second round flier kind of player?
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
that year there wasn't a lot of apparent talent behind him
Rondo didn’t go until 22, and I don’t think anyone would’ve wanted us to draft him at that point.
Sure, you can talk about trading down, but that’s all hindsight at this point.
For example, don’t you think every team in the league is kicking themselves for not drafting Landry Fields?
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
I can't remember a single "DRAFT LANDRY FIELDS" post here...
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
Oh, I don’t really mean trade down. I mean the trend seems to be that physical specimens with no basketball abilities tend to get picked in the 2nd round. Guys like Deandre Jordan, Hassan Whiteside, Devon Hardin….and we decided to pick one top 10! Bad move. I guess those guys all came after POB – maybe he’s the reason teams don’t pick that kind of player until the second round?
As for Rondo, he dropped because of character concerns, I think. He tested off the charts at the combine, and was young, fairly good, and on good teams. At least that’s what I remember.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
character concerns?
hard for me to imagine (or remember at this point)
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
Yes.
I read some article about him on nike.com once which mentioned character concerns.
Yeah, I know its just a shoe company website, but still.
"Morrow... That's a two pointer!"
-Kevin Harlan for the 22nd time during an NBA 2k11 exhibition
by don't leave Morrow! on Jan 31, 2011 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
THAT would be sick, if Lin could step in and provide 80% of what curry does..
he makes alot of T.O.’s but, he gets steals back.. hes foul prone but, annoying on defense.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 12:38 AM PST up reply actions
I think Lin can be better than Law
but ironically I think they are sort of similar, with Lin having a better upside. I doubt Lin will replace 80% of Curry’s production in his rookie year.
I do think Lin can stay in the league for a while though.
by brutusbrutus on Jan 31, 2011 12:44 AM PST up reply actions
ya, compared to law i like it kinda like amundson and wright battling it out for backup 4
law and lin should be scrappin for backup pg. and right now id favor lin since law seems to be hobbling (?) on his wrist.. not sure how one hobbles on such but hes hurtin a tad right now..
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 12:51 AM PST up reply actions
Added
Jaymee Sire interviews Reggie Williams, David Lee in the locker room. nba.com highlights and recap. Highlights by gumbyorpokey. MT2 recap.
Added
Keith Smart at the podium. warriors.com quotes and gallery.
Hahahaha
I like Smart’s answer section on Biedrins.
+1
Translation: it ain’t my fault he sucks
by JustSomeName on Jan 30, 2011 11:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Translation: it ain’t my fault he sucks
haha, sorta like the Iverson"How’s my practicing gonna make THEM better?" line
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Added
CSN highlights, recap. So I guess there’s no video of Andris Biedrins in the locker room. He made a joke at MT2 in that interview.
OK I'm done for the night
Still no gameflow yet.
Let's face it. Monta must go.
He not only can’t carry a team, the rest of the team STOPS when he has the ball. They must figure, why bother? Monta is tough, but let’s face it – he ain’t Kobe, and he ain’t even S Jackson. He’s a good 2nd or 3rd option, and his best days are behind him.
Better to trade him now, when his value is high, then to wait for him to fade or drive another moped. Dubs looked good without him – can you imagine how they’d do if they picked up a good piece in trade?
If they trade Curry, I’m out.
by neutralbias on Jan 31, 2011 12:02 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
yeah if they trade Curry
im done as well
by Anonymous1337 on Jan 31, 2011 12:23 AM PST up reply actions
Curry STOPS when he has the ball.
Fixed
We have also looked bad with him at times this year, 1 game where we beat a team without DWill is not impressive to me. And did you just put Jackson and Kobe in the same category? And his best days are behind him? Were not talking about some 30 year old here
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
1 game where we beat a team without DWill is not impressive to me
THIS
by JustSomeName on Jan 31, 2011 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
1 game where we beat a team without DWill is not impressive to me
not only did they not have DRon they also played like they were half asleep? For some reason the Jazz just looked like they didn’t want to play so it was a very boring game to watch. you know that something is wrong when we can beat them by 20 without Montay scoring any.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
Or we just played well and wihout Deron, they really do kind of suck?
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
This. Without DWill that is a thoroughly garbage squad. They have no one on the roster who can beat you off the dribble. Goes to show how important he is…
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Honestly, other than Millsap, they really just don’t have very good players in general.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Kirilenko says hello.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
mmmm…I knew what that was a link to without opening it…but I did anyway. Thanks. I’m gonna go be sad and nostalgic now.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
It should make you pumped up, happy and nostalgic!
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
you know that something is wrong when we can beat them by 20 without Montay scoring any.
I’m not so sure Monta’s lack of scoring really hurt the team all that much.
Seems to me like the team is better overall when they play a more team-centric (if that’s even a word) offense.
I for one, would love to see better shot distribution. Less shots for Monta and NO forced shots for anyone.
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jan 31, 2011 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
They ALL stop. Tivo a game, and check it out. It’s actually kind of spooky how everyone elses feet get glued to the floor when Monta starts to get that head of steam. Maybe they’re afraid of getting in the way.
Kobe and Jackson have the eye. Jackson’s demons are the reason he doesn’t turn the eye into W’s. Ellis doesn’t have the eye. Curry could, if the Dreaded Dub Disease doesn’t destroy it first.
As far as best days – Ellis has peaked, he’s taking a lot of pounding, and I’ll bet the ankle is worse than he lets on. He has shown no ability to lead except by example – admirable, certainly, but not top dog material.
by neutralbias on Jan 31, 2011 12:50 AM PST up reply actions
He doesn't lead by example? That is laughable
Monta is 25, players peak at 27ish , and his outside shot is getting better as well as his FT’s. It’s not Monta’s fault they watch him, he finds cutters well and kicks out a lot, they need to move. Beans is afraid of cutting, Stef defers way too much to Monta, and other than that we don’t have much else
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Well, when players peak depends on who you ask. Different people have come up with different answers. In some models, 25 is pretty much right at a guys peak…
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Well, it's more of a peak like a rolling hill than a peak like a himalaya.
Somewhere around 25 players generally stop improving MUCH. They may make marginal improvements overall. But it’s also worth pointing out that it’s NOT that they aren’t still improving aspects of their games.
Rather, it’s that their physical skills are beginning to decline, and so even if they do things like improve their outside shot, the net effect starts getting a lot closer to standing in place than it does to total improvement. So citing a player’s jump shot as a sign that he’s still improving misses the point – yes, he’s improving his jump shot. And that’s why he’s treading water instead of getting worse.
Monta is a strange case, though, because so much of his problems, on offense, come from his attitude and approach to the game. When he’s playing the right way, he’s very very good offensively. It’s very tempting to think that he could just “figure it out” and play smart for an entire season, and be that .580TS% scorer again. A little maturity could go a long way with him. (I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he played his worst when Lee was hurt – when he felt he had to do it all – and after he made a very-difficult, ego-gratifying, game-winning shot – when he felt like he COULD do it all).
Similarly, a little physical decline might actually help him, because some of his problems stem from his apparent belief that he’s good enough to get to the rim against any one at any time, which is just not true. So if he slows down a little, and realizes, “hey, I better use screens more often!” his actual results might go up.
by Ronaldinho on Jan 31, 2011 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he loses some of that quickness he’ll realize just how bad his ballhandling is and improve it? For anyone who doesn’t believe me, just watch the clip starting at the 0:14 mark….
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
Your beef with that play was that he was dribbling up to his chin? Yes it leaves a lot to be desired, especially for a guy who is primarily a “slasher.” But the old Monta would have kept driving into that double team without recognizing it. Instead he found the open man, who made the extra pass, which led to an easy bucket.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I'm not so sold on the old-Monta, new-Monta dichtomy.
We had new Monta at the beginning of the season, then Lee got hurt and we had old-Monta again, then we started the new year with a homestand and had new Monta again, and for the last five games …
I’m strictly talking about his ballhandling issues. His ballhandling is really weak. Dribbling up to your chin? Yes, that’s a huge red flag. Your dribble should be low and hard. Carrying the ball all over the place with your left hand? Another red flag – simply put, he’s barely competent with his left hand. He’s a freaking starting SG people are mentioning as a possible All-Star. It really bothers me how bad his ballhandling is.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
Haha, I love hearing you rant about Monta’s ballhandling. Honestly, I’m not a huge fan of Monta’s game — and I defer to your vastly superior knowledge of hoops fundamentals — but that aspect of has game has never struck me as that horrible. The dominant right hand reminds me of a tennis player with a chippy backhand who, given the choice, will always opt to run around to his forehand (Steffi Graf or Federer, e.g.) And the high dribble often seems like his means of generating the needed angular momentum to accelerate past his man and to the rim.
I could totally live with the high dribble and the lack of a left hand if he played defense and rebounded like Dwyane Wade…
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 31, 2011 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure if either of you have been to a warriors game within 10 rows of the court
but when you watch Monta dribble in person, he obviously carries the ball every time pretty much.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
Could well be, but if he never gets called for it, who cares? All good hoopsters “game the system” to some extent.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 31, 2011 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
but if he never gets called for it, who cares?
This
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Oh, it’s not actually the fact that he’s carrying the ball that bothers me. The rules are what the refs call. It’s that he has a general lack of control. Take the high dribble, for instance. A high dribble means a couple of things that directly negatively impact his game. First, it makes it easier to steal. The ball takes longer to go from hand to ground back to hand – so there’s a larger window to reach in and knock it away, plus it’s easier to time than shorter dribbles. Second, it negatively impacts ability to change direction. Can’t go anywhere without the ball. The shorter the dribble, the shorter you have to wait to change the direction of the ball. Third, it limits passing lanes. Shorter dribbles means less time to pick up the ball and make a pass. Playing against NBA athletes, this matters. Shorter dribbles also gives you a larger assortment of moves and crossovers and situations you can use them in.
In addition to that, his poor handling negatively affects his vision (much easier to see the court when your head is up scanning the court and dribbling is second nature, the way Nash, Rondo and Paul do, than if you have to have your head down to keep your dribble. He has poor control at times where he has to worry about maintaining control of the ball rather than trying to beat his man, as that one clip shows perfectly.
So yeah….what bothers me about it is the negative impact it has on his game, rather than any sort of ideology that the ball must be dribbled a certain way. It’s such a basic freaking skill that someone in his position should have developed to a much better extent years ago than he has now. Learn to dribble Monta. Yeah, it involves doing drills where you intentionally dribble hard and low until you use the ball. Get over it. Do the drills.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
but when you watch Monta dribble in person, he obviously carries the ball every time pretty much.
I think you could rewrite that sentence like this: “but when you watch almost every player in the NBA dribble, they obviously carry the ball pretty much every time.”
I do not understand why it isn’t called more often. I really don’t.
I do not understand why it isn’t called more often. I really don’t.
like the extra steps they let them get away with it’s to appeal to the casual fan who wants to see more and more points scored.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2011 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Haha. Yeah, other than Biedrins and Curry, we don't have too much ...
Just Lee and Dorell, who, gee, happen to be playing pretty dang well recently.
I hate the defense that it’s their fault for “watching him.” Anybody who’s played the game knows how demorilizing it is to move without the ball and not get rewarded for it. Players top working that hard when they realize that their work is irrelevant. I’ve ALWAYS blamed that on the ball-hog, not the other players, and I don’t see any reason to change that now.
Okay so we have good starters
4/5 at least , with no bench. That is not much
If you dont move w/o the ball, you don’t deserve the ball. And we don’t move well at all in a half court set
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
But seriously, we have a bunch of guys who should be able to move well – Lee, Biedrins, Monta, Curry have all been effective at moving off the ball in half court sets at points in their career. Dunno about Dorell yet, but I’m not saying he can’t! Curry and Dorell are shooters. We got backups that can do stuff. We have the personnel to be that kind of team. I hope we can get a more balanced, team orientated offense going in the future. Hopeless last nights game was a stepping stone to better things.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Beans used too, not much anymore
Lee often just sits and waits for a open jumper (which he strangely gets sagged off of ), Stef should be able to move better than he is, DW is decent at it I guess. Haven’t paid close attention to him
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Hopefully Biedrins gets back to it, he was doing it yesterday. When he’s attacking the rim (both with the ball and without), he’s a solid offensive contributor. It looks to me like Lee waits for the jumper because that’s the right read. As you said, D sags off leaving Lee the jumper, so there’s no need to cut. Take the jumper.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Lee does just sorta stand there
So do you know what gets him really open? Monta’s driving, it brings his guy in then Lee is open, they usually don’t sag so far off he’s wide open just standing there in a half court press
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Right, that’s basic basketball. Get good spacing, drive and kick.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 7:34 PM PST up reply actions
Getting good movement going and having players run off screens to help create that dribble drive seam and get the defense off balance to begin with makes everything more effective, too.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
Ellis' free throw accuracy
for this season is .001 off his career average, so if he appears to be improving it’s a mini-trend taking him back to his norm. He hit slightly better than his career avg. in the season before his off season injury, and actually peaked and exceeded .800 for the only time in the season of chaos when he played only 25 games. The overall record suggests he will continue to be a good but not great from the charity stripe. Curry is headed to becoming one of the top two or three from the line for all time, a strong argument that it should be him closing games with the ball when the margin is close.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
Didn't say that...
I said he DOES lead by example – but in no other way. Magic and Bird led by example AND by getting into anyone’s face who wasn’t doing their part. They could also take over a game – and bring home the bacon.
He is the best he’s gonna be, right now. Former dubs prove the axiom that playing for GS makes a player look better than he really is.
I’m also not saying it’s his fault – he is who he is. And right now, that is Mr Expendable.
by neutralbias on Jan 31, 2011 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
Is this going to be a trend? I happen to agree that I'd rather have Curry than Ellis
but whenever one of them has a bad game people come out and say that the other one should be traded. The front office will do what they will do. Riley has made some smart moves, the new owner doesn’t seem to be an idiot lets hope they make a good one it is out of our control. I think this team can be good with Curry and Ellis on the same team, I think that it isn’t the optimal roster but they can work, therefore neither of them “must” go.
With that being said, we badly need a big presence down low and if you look around the NBA many teams are looking for that as well. Biedrins played well tonight and has talent but he isn’t the future for us, really I think he is paid too high for what his current production is.(He was a steal at his old production) At this point he would be a good back-up we need someone with a presence and Biedrins isn’t a game changer on defense, he is better than Lee but that isn’t saying much(I do like Lee very much, its just not part of his MO.)
by brutusbrutus on Jan 31, 2011 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
so a week of curry doing good means more than monta doing great for a half season.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 31, 2011 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Except that Curry has been better than Monta in all areas except for scoring volume all season.
And Monta HASN’T been consistently great. Monta has had streaks of great mixed in with streaks of poor all season long.
I really don’t understand what Monta’s defenders think they’re seeing here. Do they really see nothing besides PPG? Do they really just not notice all the misses unless it’s mind-numbingly obvious like the Charlotte game?
Monta has had some of the best offensive performances I’ve seen in years this season. He’s also had a bunch of mediocre games, and quite a few downright abysmal ones.
But I suppose this is the same bunch of people who argued that Monta was playing well last season, so, you know …
so a week of curry doing good means more than monta doing great for a half season.
If you consider what Monta has done for the first half of the season as “great” you’re cheapening the meaning of “great” considerably. He’s been a high volume scorer, but one who has been only average in efficiency by at times being very, very good and other times being terrible in this regard. He’s been a pretter good passer for an off guard (“inflated”, much as I hate the term, by being the point guard much of the time) who has been positively anemic rebounding. That adds up to ‘great’ only if you’re willing to lower your standards such that a team could be great and somehow lose more often than not.
I have more traditional standards for “great”. I require that things be better than good.
Re: I have more traditional standards for "great". I require that things be better than good.
Then this must have made you hurl your dictionary through the television screen.
I am not a testicle.
by bloodsweatndonuts on Jan 31, 2011 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
Monta is tough, but let’s face it – he ain’t Kobe, and he ain’t even S Jackson. He’s a good 2nd or 3rd option, and his best days are behind him.
I’m down for trading Monta for a defensive SG, and he’s probably one of my least favorite players on the team, but I’m not sure I buy some of this.
Yeah, he isn’t Cap’n Jack which is a good thing. Jack plays much like Baron – when he cares he’s great, when he doesn’t he’s horrible. Monta never really mails it in like either of them, even tonight despite having a horrible game he was still doing the scrappy things he does (hustling to box out, etc. are things he normally doesn’t do well anyway, so I can’t penalize him more for those on a bad night than I would on a good night).
Also, I disagree that his best days are behind him. He is a very good scorer and could be amazingly good on a team that struggles to score (ex. Kings, Pistons). I think his best days are behind him ONLY IF he is stuck on the Warriors with Curry next to him and Lee in the front court.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 31, 2011 2:27 AM PST up reply actions
lol at his best days are behind him when he is having his best season
lol at everyone hating on him when he is having an all-star worthy season
Don't Trade Monta
Bush is on Fire!
Huff likes it raw
by JohnnyDangerously on Jan 31, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
+1
Seems like everyone has been waiting for monta to struggle a little so they could throw him under the bus. The man has had 1 week not playing at an all star level and now he must go.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 31, 2011 4:02 PM PST up reply actions
So, I went to the game with the gf tonight, and she provided an incredible insight that should be of considerable value to all of you:
She calls David Lee “Spaghetti Arms”.
You’re welcome.
Amnesty for all immigrants! Boycott Arizona! RIP GURU
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Jan 31, 2011 12:27 AM PST reply actions
It was good to have a win vs. a team with a better record than us
even though they didn’t have their best player, finally the horribleness that was the Bobcats loss is fading.
They are much worse than cats without deron
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Jan 31, 2011 5:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
its like muscling down a bunch of food even tho it tastes nasty but your hungry but, you saved one bite of desert for after..
1-4 last 5 games..
3-4 of last 7..
Has not been mentioned but...
Ekpe had what looked like his best game of the season. Good to see him finally get some PT.
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
I thought he looked flat out bad on offense. He was constantly messing up spacing, generally didn’t know what he was supposed to be doing, he tried to post up once and Kirilenko just flat out stole it from him…according to the box score he had another TO I don’t remember…of course, he looked much better on D. Looks to me like the kid still needs more practice time.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I have been noticing that too.
Couple that stick out to me, against the Bobcats Udoh intercepts a pass that looked like it was going to Dorell on the arc for a 3. Udoh takes the pass and bricks the long jumper. Then the one last night where it looked like Monta was expecting Udoh to cut to the rim, and instead stopped.
Most of all, I think Udoh is still trying to adjust to the timing of the NBA and with the chemistry of his teammates. Lack of summer league and training camp has clearly hampered/delayed his growth. Hopefully he can work on defensive rebounding in the summer.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Jan 31, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
according to the box score he had another TO I don’t remember…
he set an illegal pick in the 3rdQ .
by homer simpson on Jan 31, 2011 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
Oh thanks. Can’t put that one entirely on him. Steph’s gotta give him a chance to get set.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
disagree
for a rookie big, I think he actually looked pretty good. He looks confident in what he’s trying to do on offense. Shots didn’t fall, but he created good looks for himself.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
+1
The guy does still to play more and learn the flow of the game on offense. He’s barely had two months of run. He did make one really confident, assertive move on offense, and he did lots of things well on defense. I’d like to see his rebounding totals improve, but I noticed him boxing out and actually going after the ball, which is an improvement. I also didn’t notice his stone hands as much, so maybe there’s hope in that area too.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Watch his off ball movement and spacing next game, and tell me what you think. I saw multiple times where his spacing wasn’t good and he looked like he was trying to figure out where to be and what to do – like he would start going somewhere to set a pick but would go really tentatively, or would even start doing one thing then change what he’s doing….so that’s what I’m seeing. You have any more thoughts?
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, I think I know what you're saying
he’s a bit unsure about setting up screens…
but he’s active and looks like he’s working hard…I think it will just take some time to learn how to fit in the offense. To me, his skills look pretty good for a 4.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
Yeah, I think he’s still learning what his role is, which is also understandable at this point, I think. It’s not necessarily a criticism, I expect it to be something he gets over with more experience, the point is just that he’s not really ready yet. I don’t understand all the clamoring for a guy who still needs some more time to learn his responsibilities.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
well, I think the idea is exactly that
get him more time so he can be productive sooner.
If you believe we are not making the playoffs this season, then the priority should be development of our rookies and second years. You know, it’s funny, for some reason I had actually forgotten that Reggie is only in his second year. In fact, behind Steph, he’s probably the second best scorer in that class. He also needs more time to develop.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
That’s what practice and film sessions are for!
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
to paraphrase and mangle an Einstein quote
In theory, games and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
or to borrow from another famed wordsmith:
We talkin’ ’bout practice. Not a game. Not a game. Not a game. Practice.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
A 5 on 5 drill at practice might as well be a game. Except you get to do a better job focusing on correcting mistakes!
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
The problem is that a team has very few game-like five-on-five practices during the course of the regular season.
I think a lot of fans think that pro ball is like high school or college, where you have multiple practices between most games, and most practices involve full scrimmages. But an 82-game schedule simply doesn’t allow such a thing.
NBA teams have very few – under a handful – of full-speed, five-on-five practices during the regular season. They don’t have the time, and when they do have the time, the players need to rest and recover. They do shootarounds, walk throughs, and maybe a few drills to work on a point of emphasis. (eg, we’re not rotating after screens well, let’s run 20 screens in a row, at various paces, pointing out what we want).
But rookies need full-speed, full-court reps. And they don’t get them, except in training camp … or during games.
I agree on the importance of reps. You sure about that? I’ve always been under the impression even walkthroughs are a chance to get reps learning the right reads/spacing, etc. It might not be a full 20-30 minute 5 on 5 full court scrimmage or anything, but I always got the impression they still did drills, and even did scrimmages more often than that?
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
you can't really learn that stuff
until you go against real competition
Even a smart kid like Curry probably learns something new every night.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
Well what stuff are we talking about here? With Udoh, it looks to me like he needs to learn our scheme – spacing, where to be, what to do, so it becomes second nature for him. There are lots of drills to learn that stuff – doesn’t necessarily have to be practice. Walking through it, shell drill, running it against live defense, even if it’s not a full on scrimmage or game….
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
you really think they still run the shell drill in the NBA?
granted, seems like a lot of teams need a refresher…
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Feb 1, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Even in HS,
In-season practices are WAY more low-key than out-of-season practices.
They do shootarounds, walk throughs, and maybe a few drills to work on a point of emphasis.
"Morrow... That's a two pointer!"
-Kevin Harlan for the 22nd time during an NBA 2k11 exhibition
by don't leave Morrow! on Jan 31, 2011 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
It wasn’t that way at my school. Most out of season stuff were open gyms and games. We went hard every day (except the couple of game days a week) in practice during the season. We actually didn’t even do much scrimmaging, mostly drills, but plenty of the drills were at least game-like.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
It wasn’t that way at my school.
Why would your school be like an NBA practice?
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
I’m not sure. Good thing that wasn’t the topic of conversation. Now we’re strictly talking HS practice!
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
AI did not like HS practice!
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The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
anyway, he's able to dribble, stay in control, and get his shot off
that’s good to see. Compare for example to Cousins. He seems to be only now getting up to speed and not turning the ball over so much (I think).
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The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
one thing that stuck out to me
- the Jazz set screens like they are made out of concrete. Majority of those screens, the warriors were not even CLOSE to running around. Like literally 10 feet away, trying to catch up to raja or whichever SG/SF was in. I haven’t seen the warriors this poor at hedging off the screen/catching up to their man all season.
that comment is more amazement of the jazz’s fundamentals then a critique on the warriors. but anyway, i enjoyed the game. my warrior wonder is louis amundson. sweet lou with those blocks got me standing up in my living room
It's not surprising, since Monta got hurt v. Sac, he's been poor
Maybe he should be rested a couple games to get him back to full health.
? he actually played pretty well offensively vs Hornets.
it was also good to see him defer when he realized he didn’t have it while others did — probably the 1st game in awhile where he’s played over 30 minutes and taken less than 10 shots.
by homer simpson on Jan 31, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
Can't ask for much more;
Biedrins played well, Steph played well, Lee played well, Reggie played well, Amundson played well, Doorl played well, Udoh rebounded with some life, Monta knew he was off and made the most of it.
What I think it shows most is that when our guys are all firing, and even when one of our stars isn’t, and the bench is playing well they have the ABILITY to play pretty well. What scares me is that this is some of the best ball I’ve seen them play this season and there were still times we weren’t competing with an underwhelming Jazz team.
What I will say is that it truly seems we are a legitimate center, a solid defender and a few bench pieces away from being consistent competitors!
by FromtheBaytotheBayState on Jan 31, 2011 10:30 AM PST reply actions
What I will say is that it truly seems we are a legitimate center, a solid defender and a few bench pieces away from being consistent competitors!
haha,that goes for about 80% of the NBA teams don’t it?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2011 10:36 AM PST reply actions
I’d say it goes for about 60% of NBA teams.
The other 40% already are consistent competitors.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 31, 2011 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
Eh, I think more teams are a lot more pieces away, but that’s ok, you can strip the silver lining if you want!
by FromtheBaytotheBayState on Jan 31, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Let's not use his off night as a forum to write off Monta
He is a star and a big reason why we even have a shot at 35 to 40 wins.
I understand the logic of pairing Curry with a bigger defense oriented SG – but I’d rather seen what a great coach could do with this backcourt – its just too talented not to try to make work.
I think Smart is a great guy and is doing his best – but I would like to see an upgrade at coach and bench before I would want to trade Monta.
If a coach could get both of them to play their best at the same time, more consistently, we’d have at least 7,8 more wins right now.
but I’d rather seen what a great coach could do with this backcourt
haha, a great coach would probably move both of them for a great player?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 31, 2011 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Added
Rusty recap, Adam recap, Rusty’s Keith Smart quip, gameflow, Andris Biedrins in the locker room.
This game was great in the fact that everyone kicked in to pick up the slack for monta
but if the players on the warriors would have played the way they have so far this season with monta playing like he did yesterday, they would have been lucky to score 60 points.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 31, 2011 4:04 PM PST reply actions
I saw it the opposite way, actually. I saw it more like the Warriors were playing good, team basketball on offense, to the point where Monta realized he didn’t need to do anything but play within the flow of the offense.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
yeah that game had a totally different feel
it wasn’t like, hey, let’s all stand around and wait for Monta to do his thing
Curry seemed much more confident, too, but it probably helps going up against Watson, instead of DWill.
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The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
Impending demise of the future of Monta?
I wonder…was this game just an abberation (certainly, only 2 points from Monta IS an abberation), but is it a portent of things to come? That the Warriors realize that they can be a very effective team without Monta scoring a bunch of points? That if they had the kind of effort and success last night, but with a different kind of off-guard than Monta, that they could do this with more regularity? Maybe, and I am not advocating this, necessarily. In fact, I have been one of Monta’s biggest fans, but I am thinking, maybe it is time. It might have been an abberation that Beidrins got a 2nd consecutive double double…and reggie williams is unlikely to go 6-6 very often, but still…maybe so. If you replace Monta with a bigger, more defensive minded and decent scoring off guard, this could work very well. And it is possible that a straight up trade for such a player could occur. I love Monta’s game, but I am becoming less convinced that he and Curry are going to be ultimately successful…and even saying that, I dread the thought of moving Monta and having him become the perennial all-star elswhere, as the Warriors have been prone to doing in past moves.
The great thing about last night’s game was that it wasn’t just a lucky performance where guys hit a bunch of shots they don’t normally do – it was legitimately good basketball like we haven’t seen yet this year. Guys were passing well, moving well, playing good team basketball, and the results were a lot of very, very good looks. The kind of performance that makes you think there’s a chance it’s sustainable (at least to a large degree)….
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
Ellis making the all star squad
after he re-locates, and his evolution into a more all-around player are two separate, distinct things. If injuries come down on the other players at Ellis’ position, he can make the team, or if he goes to a market that can give his highlight clips more media exposure, he could go, and good for him. Will his fans be happy if he stays and the team never sees 50 wins ? — not unlikely as long as he remains the most prominent player on the team.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
Abberation
Monta hadn’t done what he did last night in 5 years , and we haven’t stayed in many games w/o him playing well this year either
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Part of the reason we don't stay in many games without him playing well is because when Monta plays badly, he KILLS you.
I don’t think you understand how difficult it is to win when you have a guy shooting that much and not hitting his shots. Monta, on his off-nights, shoots his team out of games.
On his good nights, he’s unstoppable. But they’re not all good nights.
Last night might have been the first time in his entire career that Monta has recognized that it’s not going in, and made a commitment to helping in other ways rather than trying to shoot himself out of a slump. If that represents some new maturity on his part, great. On the other hand, watching how hitting a game winning shot seemed to negatively affect his ego in a really big way, I can’t help but worry that whatever change this made to his psyche will only be temporary.
that maturity (we hope) of ellis to recognize he wasnt hitting and to start finding other ways
(passing) was so COOL to see.. makes me think he has the potential to be even better.
if he doesnt shoot us out of games anymore then has nights where he is on fire , things could really be looking up!
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Jan 31, 2011 11:47 PM PST up reply actions
A lot of "scorers " on their off night shoot people out of games
LBJ with his 3’s, Kobe, Melo etc. That is just the NBA, you’ll never get the perfect scorer which it seems everyone on here expects him to be and if he isn’t he gets torn down. On his solid nights he’s still really good. Games like this rarely happen, dont dwell on it.
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
LeBron's off nights happen a lot less often than Monta's.
Of course,Lebron does a lot more than just score to help his team. But really, the comparison is silly. LeBron is a truly dominant scorer who scores in bunches at a high efficiency.
Monta is a scorer who scores in bunches with average efficiency. That means for every great night he has, he has an equally bad night.
If this game says anything to Monta haters and lovers alike, it should be that Monta can actually rest on the bench without the whole world collapsing around the team.
by samuraaaaiiiiiii on Jan 31, 2011 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
Man some of you super critical of players
Monta can do things that 99% of people cannot. And that 90% of NBA players cannot. How many years is he going to average 25 plus in the NBA. People wish they could do that.
As far as how many shots he takes or efficient he is. If any player in the league could make the shots he does they would take them.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 31, 2011 6:34 PM PST reply actions
As far as how many shots he takes or efficient he is. If any player in the league could make the shots he does they would take them.
This is not an intelligent defense of the problem. Whether or not everyone else would make the same mistake and ignore efficiency (something well linked with wins) in order to score more points (something that is not linked with wins when it’s done inefficiently) doesn’t make it any better or more valuable. Ignoring this in favor of being mesmerized by the dance-contest aspects of his game doesn’t make it better. It just means he’s pleasing to fanboys.
I get the whole stat..
but efficency doesnt tell who the best player on the team is. Because naturally if you shoot when your open you will be more efficent but no player that has ever been a supperior player only shoots when they are open.
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 31, 2011 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
Right, volume and efficiency both matter in equal parts. We get that.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Intelligence Cornered
Anyone who does not agree with you is being unintelligent, of course. Arrogance is Bliss.
Anyone who does not agree with you is being unintelligent, of course.
This is false. Thje argument that he made was unintelligent because it was based on an assertion and was blindly ignorant of real knowledge. It had nothing to do with being a position different from my own. On its own merit, his ‘argument’, such that it was, was faulty.
Right, I do wish I could do what the very last bench player in the entire NBA can do, much less what Monta Ellis does. How is that relevant again?
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
I dont really buy the if this player took more shots I wonder how much he could average?
If he could he would
by Belinelli's the savior on Jan 31, 2011 6:34 PM PST reply actions
I mean, it depends on the individual case you’re talking about. Could Steve Kerr, the career leader in 3pt%, have scored like Ray Allen if given the chance? No way. One of the reasons he’s the career leader, in addition to being among the best shooters ever, is that he only takes good shots, because frankly, he’s not capable of much more. On the other hand, look at a guy like Paul Millsap – he’s been given a bigger role in the offense, and now he’s scoring more at the same efficiency he used to score. He was a guy quite capable of more than what his role was, and now he’s getting that chance. I think it’s reasonable to think a guy like Curry is capable of scoring more – we’ve seen his skills, he can create shots off the dribble, and as efficiently as he already scores (at a high volume), he can probably handle more while scoring efficiently. It really depends on the individual and the situation we’re talking about specifically.
by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 7:41 PM PST up reply actions
Notice how close Curry and Ellis's FGA/36 is.
Curry shoots very nearly as close to as much as Monta does, per minute. (He just plays fewer minutes, making the discrepancy look bigger than it is).
Yet Curry still manages to be an efficient scorer, while Monta does not.
That should tell you something.
It tells you he is a better pure shooter
But not in as big or as tough a role
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Notice how close Curry and Ellis’s FGA/36 is.
…
by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
curious
will there be a recap?
wins are nice =]

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