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What's with the former player hate?


Mike Dunleavy sucked.  He was too afraid to do anything in big moments, and somehow his fundamentals brokedown at critical times.  He was boo'ed when he was with the Warriors, and deserves the continued ire of the Warriors fans.  But what about StackJack, Baron and Big Al?  Their arrival immediately turned around 13 terrible seasons.  In the past 17 seasons, we've really only had two good seasons, one resulting in the second round elimination to the Jazz, and the other a record for wins without making the playoffs.  These guys may have driven us mad with the number of terrible three's taken with less than 8 seconds off the shotclock, but their attitude and energy gave us the identity we sorely needed, and gave the fans something to believe in.  Yes, the pun is intended.  That movement, despite being highjacked by the Warriors management, was a fan movement that flew in defiance to everything we had witnessed in the Cohan/St. Jean/Twardzic era.  The players and the fans teaming up to feed off each other and overthrow a losing culture that had permeated the organization and became league known when Sprewell put his hands around PJ Carlisimo's neck. 

Apparently everybody is upset with the way these guys left the organization.  Stackjack demanded to be traded, Baron opted out and snuck away to the Clippers, and Al bitched and moaned his way into a trade.  All extremely selfish behavior that deserves hostility from the jilted fans.. or does it?  Look at Stackjack's situation, he got offered a contract extension and he took it.. but then look at what happened to the organization after he took the contract?  Can you blame him for wanting to get the hell out of here?  Watching the kinda cost cutting moves that lead to nowhere, and only further distancing yourself from your recent accomplishments, why would he want to stay?  Look at the team now.  Despite all of the big moves in the offseason, we are still more than one big piece away from relevance.  In my opinion, he actually helped the Warriors faithful by shining a bright spotlight on just how terrible and disjointed things had gotten in just two years after the "We Believe" run.  The moves that were made weren't in the mold of "we're making a big push to get better", nor were they, "we're blowing it up to rebuild fast and get better".  They were all in the style of "our fans show up no matter what, so let's just save as much money as possible". 

That leads into the Baron Davis departure.  If what we've heard is true, he was offered an extension by Mully, and he was going to sign it.  Baron Davis, the savior of the Warriors, the new face of the franchise, the Bay Area Bearded Mascot before Brian Wilson, was going to stay with the Warriors, and have his number 5 hanging next to Tom Meschery.  Or maybe all of that would fade, but the fans wouldn't forget the incredible run, and the iconic dunk.  But that was ripped away from him by a cheapskate powermonger who thought his years in the Cable industry gave him the chops to run an NBA team.  Why try to handle a player's ego when it doesn't show up on the income statement?  When you combine that kind of an insult, along with the crazy money that the Clippers were offering, plus the chance to play with his (ex) good friend, there are very few of us that would chose to stay. 

As for Al, yeah, the way he left made him seem like a whiny bitch.  Faking injury and not playing hard just to get away from Nellie was lame.  But you have to admit after watching the way Nellie has broken several players over the decades, and made indefensible moves of starting Kurz (forgot about him didn't you?) over vets really can break players down.  Nellie may have been a great strategist, but he never figured out how to manage the egos of his players to keep them playing hard for the team.  I was sad to see Al go out the way he did, but I won't forget the way he handled Yao Ming, made some huge threes, or the way he looked like a ninja turtle. 

None of these guys ever said "screw you" to the fans.  None of these guys were responsible for trading J-Rich, or trading Crawford for nothing, or trading Belinelli for George, or watching trade exceptions expire unused, or trade second round picks for cash that went unused.  Remember these guys for the good things they brought us, don't remember them for their struggles against a terrible front office and a bull headed coach who many times seemed to put his ego in front of the team's needs.  Stay away from the "what have you done for me lately" mentaility that terrible fanbases like the Lakers have.  Let's get this back to a place where we are known for loving our team and being grateful for the good they have brought us.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Hear Hear!

I couldn’t believe people booing Baron. He came here and gave us everything he had, and wasn’t rewarded by the organization. He was then offered about $20-$30M more than the Warriors’ last-second face-saving offer gave him.

Baron gave us the greatest dunk in Warriors history. I still smile when I think about that.

Let’s stop the hate.

And can we remember how awesome it was when we shipped out the DunMurphy sisters and got StackJack and Al? Instant playoffs baby! Couldn’t have done it without them.

Blame the freakin J-Rich cost-cutting trade for alienating good players and making the team suck.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 31, 2011 12:12 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah Booing Baron is unacceptable

Fans are just bitter because he provided us with such unbridled entertainment they are sad he is gone.

by brutusbrutus on Feb 1, 2011 1:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Agree

Though fans should take it on a case-by-case basis. The DunMurphy sisters aren’t really worth the energy to boo, but boo if you like. But don’t boo Baron— Nelly basically alienated him and made leaving for the Clippers actually look appealing. Baron gets a lifetime free pass because of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j01q8A6pqps

by dubbubba on Jan 31, 2011 12:25 PM PST reply actions  

I have no problem with people boo’ing the players when they come here to play us. I want to see our team win, and if the boo’ing can somehow get into their heads (and hopefully not fuel their fire) then I’ll contribute to the boo’ing as well.

by bObaBaLLa on Jan 31, 2011 12:27 PM PST reply actions  

I can’t take this seriously when you say booing Dunleavy is justified but booing Stephen Jackson is not. Sorry, that’s not fair.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 12:33 PM PST reply actions  

yeah, that was my first thought too

I’ll take Dunleavy over SJ any day.

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Jan 31, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Woah

What did Dunleavy get us? Jack was a part of we believe, that gets him automatic love

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Jan 31, 2011 6:12 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Jackson...

I have no idea who he really is, he almost has a split personality. I really didn’t like it when he wanted to be traded, now I don’t know I think he is kind of comical. We could use some of his crazy now days I think, but then again I don’t miss the idiotic shots that he sometimes took.

by brutusbrutus on Feb 1, 2011 1:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I completely agree with the author of this fanposts opinion. :)

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I very rarely boo the hometeam. In fact, I think I’ve really only boo’ed Dunleavy and Cohan when he got announced at the playoff games. Dunleavy was a different beast though. Yeah, maybe expectations laid on him were too big, but the frustration came not with him being a busted #3 pick, but with the way he played his worst in any moment that mattered, but then would start hitting threes and even dunks when the lead was in double digits. The guy was a coach’s son, the least you could ask for was basic fundamentals, sound dribbling judgement and nailing free throws. There close games where he’d pass up an open shot to pass to someone that was double teamed. It appeared that the only solution he thought of was to grow out his hair.
StackJack on the other hand had some damn near maddening plays, but when it mattered you could always count on him to be on the floor, to drive down the lane to get the hoop plus the foul, or to launch a three that even the most pessimistic Warriors fan new was going in (like Friday.. ugh). StackJack may have had attitude problems, but look at the difference he made when he got here – from under .500 to a 15-6 run to close the season and make the playoffs – the time he missed from the supsension – from 0-7 without to finish 48-34 – and the mess that was the D-League allstars last year. It’s an amazing coincidence that all of the winning started when StackJack was playing for the Warriors, now isn’t it?

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Jan 31, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

StackJack may have had attitude problems, but look at the difference he made when he got here – from under .500 to a 15-6 run to close the season and make the playoffs – the time he missed from the supsension – from 0-7 without to finish 48-34 – and the mess that was the D-League allstars last year. It’s an amazing coincidence that all of the winning started when StackJack was playing for the Warriors, now isn’t it?

You think this is all because of Jackson? You don’t think Richardson and Baron getting healthy down the stretch mattered? That the Warriors played the hardest schedule in the league those first 7 games, and barely lost most of them? And that Jackson just wasn’t that good of a player.

It’s hard to accept but since the trade, Dunleavy’s been a lot better than Jackson. Stephen Jackson’s really not that good.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

The reasoning is obvious

Stack Jack led us to victory, Dunleavy led us to defeat.

Stack Jack cared when he played, Dunleavy just sucked and complained.

The DunMurphy trade was a major major positive and the reason it was, was SJ.

The way StackJack exited was not cool, but he did more good than bad for the team.

Either way, we booed Dunleavy WHILE HE PLAYED FOR US. Which tells you how bad he was/is…we hardly ever boo our own players.

by Billy Frijoles on Jan 31, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Problem is Jackson wasn't even that good.

Giving him all this credit for our turnaround is ridiculous. The dude wasn’t even that good.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you might be underestimating what he brought to the table. It’s definitely not fair to give him all the credit, but one of the major reasons for our success for the year and a half stretch of the most entertaining/best Warriors teams of the last 15 years was the similar length/athleticism we had across the board. Switching everything and forcing as many turnovers on D while presenting smallball matchups with floor spacing and shooters on O. Bringing in Jack and Al were the pieces that gave us that kind of team that could be effective. Baron was the best player, Biedrins was important, but holding on to Dunleavy and/or Murphy cleary wasn’t working. They were bums. We really were much better with Jack/Al in their place.

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Pietrus, Barnes, JRich, Buike the growth of Monta all deserve credit, as well.

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

Jackson was just another piece. Buike/Barnes/Pietrus were all better than him overall, just couldn’t create their shot as well.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Or create shots for others nearly as well.

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m not sure how meaningful this is (sample size concerns), but I’ll just post it anyways:

+/-, 2006-2007, 2007-2008

Baron: +12.6, +7.5
JRich: +5.6, N/A
Monta: +2.7, +4.9
Barnes: -.3, -3.3
Buike: -13.3 (really small sample), -4.3
Pietrus: -8.1, -2
Harrington: +1.6, +2.6
Jack: +8.2, +4.6

Also of note:

Biedrins: +6.9, +5.6
Dunleavy: -.6, N/A
Murphy: -6.7, N/A

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Adjusted +/- would be better, don't you think?

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Is it available for the years we want anywhere? Basketball value only has it for 07-08:

Baron: +6.65
Monta: +.41
Jackson: +.23
Harrington: -.70
Biedrins: 1.94
Buike: -2.57
Barnes: -4.06
Pietrus: -1.15

I’m not convinced those numbers mean anything, but they do seem to generally say the same thing as the other +/- numbers. I’m not sure adjusted +/- is better. I’m not a fan of it from a practical perspective….

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

www.82games.com

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Where do they have adjusted +/-? I only see regular +/- (and that’s where I pulled my numbers from originally)

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

The adjusted +/- is on the side of the players during season outlook.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I must be missing something, I dunno what you’re referring to when you say season outlook?

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011GSW.HTM
Look on the right under on court/off court.
Net = Adjusted +/-

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Same or similar, I think.

by 'Antoine on Jan 31, 2011 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

That’s regular +/-. Adjusted +/- attempts to control for the performance of the other 9 guys on the court, which is why I’m generally skeptical of it (variance issues)….

by Missing Barry on Jan 31, 2011 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Not

Stephen Jackson is a very good player, I sure wish Azubuike could have not gotten injured and I wish we kept him, but Barnes and Pietrus were solid role players, while Jackson was a quality starter and one of our best players at the time

"Morrow... That's a two pointer!"
-Kevin Harlan for the 22nd time during an NBA 2k11 exhibition

by don't leave Morrow! on Jan 31, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I really don't think Jackson provided much besides his defense.

Because scoring inefficiently and rebounding like crap isn’t too helpful.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Soo.. other than defend the other team’s best player, have a high +/- ratio, score 20% of the team’s points, and have his team when more games with him than without him, he sucks. Those are some pretty high standards you got.. I’m guessing then you won’t keep that screen name for long.

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Jan 31, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Scoring 20% of your teams points inefficiently doesn’t mean squat. And….he wasn’t bad that year but he wasn’t good either. Baron, Monta, and Biedrins carried us that year.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Alone?

I’m pretty sure we had guys switching onto Dirk to give him different looks.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Jan 31, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions  

definitely, I loved that team. Not just for making the playoffs, but for giving this team an identity – making this look like a team instead of a bunch of guys thrown together with varying amounts of money thrown at them. StackJack was not the only reason we did well, but he sure was a big part of it. This team was made better simply through the subtraction of DunMurphy, and then made even better with the addition of StackJack and Al.

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Jan 31, 2011 1:35 PM PST reply actions  

“Al bitched and moaned his way into a trade”

this is simply not true

Harrington’s trade request was made quietly, over 6 months prior to his actual departure, through his agent who represented his frustration at being played out of position at center.

When the media ran with the story Al tried to give the company line at the outset, then relinguished when Nelson confirmed the reports.

He did not fake an injury, the club told him he would not play in order to prevent him from getting injured and rendering him value-less to the club, then because of the NBA rules about putting players on the inactive list they listed him as injured. This practice is all too common when teams are trying to move a player who’s stayed past his time with the club.

Harrington was not an ideal PF, he had defensive and rebounding weaknesses. Despite that Nelson often played him at center and tried to exploit mismatches. Al soldiered on and was part of a terrific run to the playoffs that ought not be lost to revisionist spins by Nelson and fans. During the regular season run prior to the Dallas series he was instrumental in our success. That he didn’t have a good playoff dimished the luster on his season but there wouldn’t have been a playoff at all without his late season performances.

As a former Nelson supporter, even I have to admit that it was Nelson who mismanaged Al, who didn’t handle his departure well, and who forced GSW to make an ill-timed and ill-suited trade.

As for Dun & Jax, the former was a poor pick and even poorer re-signing in retrospect and the latter played the FO like a drum and got a terrific contract. Boo them if it makes you feel better, but they played the hand they were dealt. Al deserves better imho.

"It’s frickin’ Sisyphean to be a Warriors Fan."

by hardcore on Jan 31, 2011 7:16 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah, I think the poster agrees with you on the point that we shouldn't boo Al

Or any member of the We Believe team.

It was pretty well documented that Nellie kind of abused him…but he also gave Al the most playing time and best opportunity to succeed that he ever had in his career, so it goes both ways.

by Billy Frijoles on Feb 1, 2011 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

And Al wasn't a good player really.

That’s why Nellie limited his role to stuff he’s actually good at (shooting 3’s, pulling big men away from paint).

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 1, 2011 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Most painful part of them all

is what we got for all of them: squat.

Baron lost to FA.
Captain Jack (team leader/captain) for Vlad Rad and an injured Bell? That is a HORRIBLE GM decision. I don’t care if his attitude was poison in the locker room, you bench that dude until a decent offer comes. Not the first offer given.

by Woody421 on Feb 1, 2011 1:27 PM PST reply actions  

don't forget..

Big Al, for whom we got a useful player, Jamal Crawford, had Nellie break his spirit despite all of the offense he was carrying, and then traded him for AC Law and Speedy Claxton, neither of whom were kept (AC was brought back in December). So for those three we ended up with… Vlad Rad. ….. Unless of course, you want to say that we used Baron’s cap space to sign Maggette, which would mean that we traded Maggette for Gadzuric and Charlie Bell. For those that want to go even further – out of the primary nine players of “We Believe” – Baron, J-Rich, Stack Jack, Al, Barnes, Biedrens, Pietrus and Monta, we kept Monta and Biedrins, and through a series of transactions involving trades or capspace ended up with Gadz, Charlie Bell, Brandon Wright, and Vlad Rad. Ugh.. seeing that spelled out makes me almost as sick as thinking of the series of trades that netted us Donyell Marshall for Chris Webber.

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Feb 1, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Baron, J-Rich, Stack Jack, Al, Barnes, Biedrens, Pietrus and Monta, we kept Monta and Biedrins, and through a series of transactions involving trades or capspace ended up with Gadz, Charlie Bell, Brandon Wright, and Vlad Rad. Ugh.. seeing that spelled out makes me almost as sick as thinking of the series of trades that netted us Donyell Marshall for Chris Webber.

Really? How good do you think that We Believe team would be right now if we kept them around? The truth is that while it was a nice run, it wasn’t sustainable. Some of the players were aging. A lot of them were either overpaid or on their way to it (JRich, Baron, Jack)….there’s nothing wrong with trying to build for the future. At some point you have to move on. If you don’t like what we got for it, fine, but it’s shown to be pretty clear we made the right decisions in moving on when we did.

by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree that teams evolve and have to change. But I don’t see what you’re arguing here. Who was aging? Who from that team isn’t effective because of aging? Baron might not be as great, but if he was motivated and playing 25-30 minutes a game, I think he’d be incredibly effective. Why is the time to move on a month after getting to the second round? After the group won over 60% of it’s game in the 50 games it got to play together? Are you trying to say that the grand vision started 4 years ago with the vision of clearing minimal amounts of cap space and wasting trade chips to assemble the current team?

Face it, these were not the moves of a team trying to rebuild. They were the moves of a team prioritizing the current net income over everything else. Personell moves can be tricky because sometimes a player can get misjudged, or expiring contracts are a bigger priority, but expiring trade exceptions and trading second round picks for cash are a clear indication the team isn’t stockpiling assets and capspace for a future run.

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Feb 1, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Well there are some things that don’t strike me as accurate at all in your statement. First, that we moved on a month after getting to the second round. Actually, we kept almost every major contributor around, and gave them a whole extra season. We won 48 games. We didn’t make the playoffs. The only player we “moved on” past was JRich, and there was good reason for that. He was overpaid, coming off injury, and most importantly, we had a young, up and coming replacement ready to step right in, and Monta did exactly that. We replaced JRich without missing a beat. The next year Baron, our best player, moved on in free agency. We were left without a team that was going anywhere. Yep, that’ll cause you to move on.

Net, you claim we were prioritizing net income over everything else. Yes, we ditched JRich. But we also picked up a young guy with tons of potential who played a position of need (big man, since at that point, Biedrins was our only real big man on the team), in exchange for a very replaceable, overpaid wing who we had replacements already ready to go for. We were also involved in KG trade talks at that point that obviously fell through. We also extended Jack to a stupid contract, which is exactly the opposite of prioritizing net income over everything else, AND we went out and signed Maggette. Both these were dumb moves. Neither of them was a cost cutting measure.

expiring trade exceptions and trading second round picks for cash are a clear indication the team isn’t stockpiling assets and capspace for a future run.

The chances of those netting us anything worthwhile that would have changed our fortunes is incredibly small. They probably were cost cutting measures, but they didn’t cut that much (not as much as Jack and Maggette added!), and they very likely didn’t hurt us in any meaningful way. Oh well.

And with Baron’s history, do you really think he would have simply stayed in shape and motivated? I have some breaking news for you, out of shape, unmotivated Baron is the norm. The Hornets shipped him out because of it. We saw it before the trade for Jack, and possibly even in the closing games before he departed us, and he’s more or less shown it the entire time since the Clippers signed him.

What really killed us was bad basketball decisions. Maggette was a bad signing. Extending Jack was a bad signing. That teams run was bound to be shortlived, though.

by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes and no. Fine, if people want to think the J-Rich trade was in talks for KG, you get that stuff done before the draft! You don’t get caught with your pants down giving up an emotional leader to get an unproven rookie. Yes, Wright had potential, but his lankiness was an injury concern which turns out to be a major understatement. If you think that team had a chance to get even better, then maybe go after a player that seems more ready to step in right away, or trade for a better veteran. Or fine, you got a huge trade exception in return for dumping J-Rich, the team is playing well all season long, why was that thing thrown away when it was clear the Warriors were a competitve team, capable of keeping up with anybody on a given night??
Baron walked after that season, but that was after having the organization dangle a carrot in front of him and then rip it away, and having another team come in and give him a big offer. The Clippers did get an unmotivated Baron, but I still feel that when he was here, the way he connected with the fans (and J-Rich, StackJack and Barnes) that he would have kept playing hard for us. He thought he was going to a good team, then Brand took off and left him with a team that had 0 chance of cracking .400. The Maggette signing was just a knee jerk reaction to the Clippers getting Baron, and was even more ridiculous because it wasted money on the one position we already had locked down. The Stackjack extension was bizzare, but only horrible in consideration of having Maggette and Azabuike. So.. you’re right, there were some terrible moves in between the cost cutting.

I actually think the "We Believe team had a good chance. The buzz on that team was building which probably could have landed some cheap vets that wanted to get in on the action. As you said, the team won 48 games. I remember that year they were able to beat any team, until they faded in the last month and a half. Think of what having an effective player like J-Rich, or at least a good veteran with the trade exception could have done for this team?

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Feb 1, 2011 3:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree you get the trade done before you make the pick. All I’m really trying to do is show that there is some basketball logic behind the move. There’s room for disagreement or not, but there’s definitely a reasonable case for it making sense from a basketball perspective. In hindsight it didn’t work out, but we’d all be better if we had the gift of hindsight before we make a decision…..

The trade exception may be a fair point. I’ve never really been confident we knew whether there were worthwhile offers out there or not.

On Baron, I’m extremely unconvinced. I mean, everyone seems to want to forget what Baron did when Monty was here. I look back on Baron fondly for the good memories he made, but he definitely brought us dark times, as well. I don’t trust Baron with a basketball team at ll.

Overall, I’m not sure exactly what the right path was, but most of what we did at least seemed to come out of a reasonable strategy, even if there’s room for disagreement.

by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 5:05 PM PST up reply actions  

And I do truly believe the biggest problem was stupid moves like extending Jack and signing Corey. Without either of those contracts, we would have had real cap room, and some decent pieces, to go after a real difference maker.

by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

All I’m really trying to do is show that there is some basketball logic behind the move.

maybe from a cohancentric perspective but not from a how to build a winner perspective. Good teams always start by making the playoffs then building on that experience to go further next year, they do not shitcan the playoff experienced player for more rookies.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 1, 2011 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Easy to say with the benefit of hindsight…

by Missing Barry on Feb 2, 2011 7:43 AM PST up reply actions  

Easy to say with the benefit of hindsight…

 Haha, I was saying it as it was happening. Just like I said draft Paul George if cuz was off the board when we pick.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 2, 2011 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Haha. Is that you, J-RIDAH?

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 2, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I was for the trade

We had Azubuike (and Monta) who appeared to be the one who could fill Jrich’s role, and we had just got killed inside against the Jazz in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

We gave up ONE of the “playoff-experienced” players in hoping Brandan Wright could help us improve in an area that we definitely needed help in. We made the change, and ended up winning MORE games than we had in the previous season when we made the playoffs.

by bObaBaLLa on Feb 2, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions  

We gave up ONE of the "playoff-experienced" players in hoping Brandan Wright could help us improve in an area that we definitely needed help in

 Haha, only a blind guy would think a skinny rookie BrokenWing could help us out in our post up problems :>) Yeah we needed inside presence badly but we shouldn’t have dumped our team’s heart for the wrong guy. It was obvious the smart thing to do would be to bring back the team that got us to the playoffs with that great last month run and see what they could do in a whole season together if we added some inside beef to the recipe.

Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 2, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions  

One of the benefits of Wright is with his athleticism, he could thrive in our uptempo, open court game….

by Missing Barry on Feb 2, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I was fine with it since we had suitable replacements already for Jrich. I saw it as a small sacrifice. To be honest, once Jrich lost most of his athleticism due to injuries, I was not impressed with his game. He was not as good of a shooter as he is right now. He couldn’t penetrate, and could only go right.

I wasn’t expecting Bwright to come in here and give us a post presence, which we probably wouldn’t use much anyways with the way our team was built. I wanted him to come in to defend and rebound, and clean up garbage inside with his athleticism and length.

by bObaBaLLa on Feb 2, 2011 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Captain Jack (team leader/captain) for Vlad Rad and an injured Bell? That is a HORRIBLE GM decision. I don’t care if his attitude was poison in the locker room, you bench that dude until a decent offer comes. Not the first offer given.

Naw, that was a pretty good trade. Jackson isn’t very good anymore, he’s a team cancer, and has a horrible contract, and we got salary relief and people who wanted to be Golden State Warriors in return.

Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.

by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 1, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

wtf??

You really have a one dimensional view of that guy. Somehow you’re discrediting the fact that he played all five positions for us, always guarded the best guy on the other team, scored a lot of points, and had a lot clutch plays. Did he jack up some terrible shots? Yeah, he did, but he also made a lot of great plays, and was a very large part to the Warriors winning and being relevant. And if I’m not mistaken, I think he had a pretty good year last year, and I’m not sure if you watched Friday’s game, but looked pretty damn effective in that game too. The dude was not a team cancer, he was a guy who realized the front office was far more concerned with raking in cash over winning or building on the success of ONE year ago. That team was dismantled quickly without ever being given a chance, with nothing remotely good coming in return. If you want to point to a cancer point to a guy decided to kick out Mully, deny Baron’s contract, tried to void Monta’s contract, signed Maggette (despite already having Azabuike), and refused to bring in any talent from anywhere outside of the D-League. I think if anything was a cancer to the lockroom, it was the realization that this time couldn’t care less about it’s players or winning.

Seriously, for a guy that could be a legit #3 on any contender, we got Vlad Rad, and cap space that is not being used. What the hell am I going to do with unused capspace? It is fucking terrible at the pick and roll. It’s as bad at blocking shots as the unused trade exceptions that we piled up and burned. Do you realize that the Warriors have gained NOTHING from it? We signed Dorrell Wright in the off season.. I like him, I’m probably the only one who bought his jersey, but I’m fairly certain we could have landed him with the midlevel exception.. right?

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Feb 1, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Dorell was landed with the midlevel.

by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 3:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, except they didn't particularly want to be Golden State Warriors"

I think Vlad decided about a month ago that maybe he doesn’t want to go back to Serbia next year. I think he’s had a sh-tty attitude and been completely morose for the first year he was here. Then finally he decided it’s his contract year! Doh! He makes e a stir to his teammates as to their motivation in practice and they look back at him and ask: " Hey since when didi YOU give a sh-t." And since then, he’s finally given us a decent effort..

The undoing of that ‘We Believe " team. was quite a downward spiral. First Rowell, trying to incentivise the contract with Baron and loses Baron. Mullin turns around and offers Brand a 90 million dollar contract and offers Arenas a contract of over 100, both of the offers are miraculously turned down, despite us offering 8 million more for Brand than the 76ers. What a series of salary bullets we dodged!
So then Mullin overcompensates for his failures by signing Maggette , but at least it was at half the price. Rowel after effectively nixing the Baron deal, then somehow gets street conned by Jackson into an 3 year extension, even though his contract was not up for a year and a half, and would have expired at a perfect time for us if we had just left well enough alone.
Meanwhile Nelson torments Harrington into a trade; We could have had David Lee back then, he was being shopped. Instead we get Crawford who if Nelly had checked, ended up being exactly the player we all thought he was, a high volume shooter who creates his own shot but was atrocious defensively. But Nelson, I guess thought he was a different player , ends up telling Crawford to leave when Crawford has a player option for one more year, and it’s really more up to us to trade him if we don’t want him. So we end up trading him for Law and Claxton.
But I am in agreement with" lilliboots" about how I feel about each one of those “we believe” discards.Has any of them really had a solid year since they left?, or had a year as good as their best year with us? Harrington’s stats were inflated with Knicks after they gutted their team of any other scorers, and JRich ‘s had a decent year last year with the Suns.
I’ll always love those guys for that space and time. Not to forget Monta, AB, Pietrus,Barnes and AZ. I do appreciate what Baron did and what JR meant to the franchise.
After the playoffs, I had heard Nelly wanted to deal JR. I was hoping we could make a straight across PF swap with some othe team for Harrington and maybe our draft pick, and keep JR for at least one more year..But it was to be shortlived and it couldn’t sustain itself for much longer with contracts coming up for Monta and Andris.
,

by War Years Legacy on Feb 2, 2011 1:31 AM PST up reply actions  

you bench that dude until a decent offer comes. Not the first offer given.

And if a good offer never comes? Then you have a large contract sitting on your bench for years and providing you nothing…

by Missing Barry on Feb 1, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions  

yes, in some situations, you have to got a last resort a just try to dump the contract. The problem is that this was yet another move that made the team worse with really no plan or hope for a better future.

It’s funny, but I often wonder why players don’t do stuff like this more often.. why would you want your trade value to be high? Why do you want the team that you would be going to, to have fewer good players because they traded them to get you?

by Ice Watter In His Veins! on Feb 1, 2011 2:53 PM PST reply actions  

As of now

They’re just players in a big league.

Baron Davis – Wish I could say that I have a soft spot for him, but I don’t. He landed a contract worth a lot more than he is, and he returned to duty unprepared. I can’t respect that. It doesn’t say a lot about a player’s character to me. I’d be happier for him if he came into arenas along with Oracle and lit it up, to honor his new contract, rather than just being in Los Angeles. I don’t think he’s worthy of a lot of praise, personally. I’m glad he led us to an upset. People misplace glory, as if it were for the fan’s sole benefit instead of the player’s.

Stephen Jackson – Was he wrong for wanting to leave? No. Was he wrong how he left? Absolutely. If he could’ve just dropped the ghetto act and acted like a pro who inked a commitment on paper, we wouldn’t be talking about a weak bench right now.

If Jackson would’ve went to the management like an honorable man, and chewed out his employer behind closed doors, demanded a trade, and then just shut up and played ball, we would’ve traded him for a valuable player(s). He also could of had more options for himself. Truth is, he didn’t care about the fans. His sense of pride and feeling like he got “slighted”, even though management overfilled his pockets, got in the way of his respect for the game.

Instead, he said things like, “I would never lay down. That’s not me. I respect Don Nelson too much.” What a tough guy. Would never lay down, huh? Well you just laid the fans down 6 feet under when their beloved team had to dump you for nothing.

Some players love to sing about “respecting the game”, and then turn to their agents to squeeze management for the last dollar. Best not to pretend that money was never the real issue. Great mentor for Monta, huh?

Al Harrington – Eh, I’m a little biased towards perimeter bigs. Never liked them much. Harrington really thought he was better than he was and didn’t rebound or defend. Wasn’t a particularly smart player. His self-image of a player became a little obvious once he came out with the shoes. Al Harrington? Why would I want your shoes again? Just because you’re part of a winning team, doesn’t mean I owe you some kind of allegiance for what you should be doing anyways – competing. I’m glad we got rid of him.

Jason Richardson – He’ll always be my favorite Warrior. He never stopped fighting when the game was already decided. He out of all the players, wanted to be here and stay here – Even when we were losing. I once went to Jason’s house and poured a concrete slab for him when I was working construction. He was washing his car with his kid and they were listening to some Motown hits. I like old school R&B and we started talking about some of the old bands. He was a really good guy and he played with heart and loyalty. I hope he wins a ring and is recognized greatly for it.

by lilboots on Feb 1, 2011 4:50 PM PST reply actions  

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing personal against any of those guys because they are human. As a grown man who has made mistakes, I’m not to going to be mad at another grown man who I don’t know pesonally. But if I’m at a game and they’re not wearing Warriors jerseys, I’m going to Boo. It’s fun to root for my team and join in on trying to make the opposing players distracted. Sorry, I’m going to boo. Nothing personal and I know the players don’t take it personal so I don’t see why people should defend them anyways. They’re not sensitive babies, they’re grown men who know that booing from the opposing team’s fans is a fun part of the NBA experience.

by Xtremelink on Feb 2, 2011 3:06 AM PST reply actions  

Yeah everyone makes mistakes. That still doesn’t mean everyone’s above criticism for making them. That’s always come with the territory from then till now. That’s how you learn it was a bad idea – from the distaste of others around you. Does Jackson truly think that it was a “mistake”? I’m not sure. He’s really the only ex-warrior I don’t like. All the others can do their thing, it doesn’t really matter. I won’t boo or cheer. They’re just a piece of competition now.

by lilboots on Feb 2, 2011 8:42 AM PST up reply actions  

I like to boo Jackson and Harrington

because they’re bums

most other ex-Dubs are ok, in my book

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Feb 2, 2011 9:46 AM PST reply actions  

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