Golden State Warriors Free Agents: What To Do With Reggie Williams?
by Nate Parham on Nov 29, 2011 3:02 PM PST
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PrintWith the NBA lockout finally over, the first big basketball question on most fans' minds is how their team's roster will take shape.
Matt Steinmetz of CSN Bay Area has already laid out an overview of the Golden State Warriors roster, Tom Ziller of SB Nation has laid out the NBA free agent list for the entire league, and David Fucillo of SBN Bay Area has posted the list of Warriors free agents. Of course, there's that whole amnesty clause thing too, but for now let's begin with free agency by taking a closer look at the Warriors' four free agents.
The Golden State Warriors have one restricted free agent and three unrestricted free agents:
Restricted: SF Reggie Williams
Unrestricted: PG Acie Law, SF Al Thornton, SF Vladimir Radmanovic
Without offending anyone or their families, we can probably say that these guys are not the most coveted group on the market. If this was a playoff team last season, that would be great but since it wasn't it sort reinforces the point that the team doesn't have a whole lot of wiggle room to work with in this shortened off-season.
Nevertheless, as we start to consider how we want this roster to take shape a brief look at what each of these guys offers the team if they decide to keep them around.
Reggie WIlliams, 6'6", Wing
Evanz already laid out the key question regarding whether the Warrior should keep Williams around in a post back in early-October: "...we just drafted Klay Thompson, who probably figures to get a lot of time backing up Monta over the next couple seasons. Does Lacob want to invest in a 3-yr deal for a guy like Williams or Young who might only see limited minutes once Klay establishes himself?"
While spending a lottery pick on Washington State guard Klay Thompson could certainly make Williams expendable, what Williams offers the Warriors is a scorer who is one of the NBA's most valuable three point shooters both off the bench and at the wing position.
But aside from Thompson, there are a few of other reasons the Warriors could conceivably let Williams go. Two of them are named Stephen Curry and Dorell Wright, who were among the top 25 most valuable three point shooters in the league last season - the Warriors aren't lacking for three point shooters by any means and have potentially already added another one in Thompson.
Another reason, as Evanz notes, is that Williams is replaceable - there are other guys out there who the team could add that would provide a similar impact (as examples, he listed Rodney Stuckey or Nick Young). Along those lines, Williams doesn't offer as much as some others - e.g. Stuckey - in the way of mid-range shooting or getting to the foul line, which could be valuable additions.
Yet the biggest reason might be defense and Williams is probably not going to show up at the top of many people's lists of top defenders in the league, especially if you consider RAPM. New coach Mark Jackson has made a big deal about bringing a defensive mentality to the team and that side of the ball has to be taken into consideration.
Ultimately, efficient shooters are valuable to any team and Williams is that. The question might be whether the Warriors can find more value in another player.
Acie Law, 6'3", Guard
Sadly, the first thing that springs to mind whenever I see Law's name is the missed breakaway layup in the 2007 NCAA Tournament. So it's sort of interesting that he led the Warriors in layup attempts per 100 possessions last season. Maybe.
Again, as an unrestricted free agent with other options in our backcourt, it would be surprising to see Law back on the roster.
Al Thornton, 6'8", Forward
Gary Dzen of the Boston Globe suggests Thornton as one of the Boston Celtics' top free agent targets. So maybe I should take back what I said about the rest of these guys other than Williams not being so coveted.
Then again, Adam Francis of SBN's Raptors HQ wondered if Thornton was an upgrade "over James Johnson or even a healthy Linas Kleiza". So, you can make your own assessment of where he stands.
Vladimir Radmanovic, 6'10", Forward
The one place Radmanovic shines is in Evanz's most valuable three point shooters metric where he stood as the 8th best non-starter last season. But he was rated 100th in scoring among free agents and it's difficult to imagine him being rated much higher defensively.
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the correct answer to the poll is
it depends on how big the contract offer he accepts is
Exactly this. I love Reggie, but it wouldn’t kill me to see him go. I’d be happy to see him get a Morrow-esque offer somewhere else.
by Reverend_Randy on Nov 29, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Well, folks, new season, same questions! Yep, Reggie stays...unless,
another team makes this true scorer a better offer! At any rate, this dude is very valuable to any playoff team, and there is ample evidence already that his best ball-playing in the NBΑ is ahead of him. For his sake, I hope he goes to a team that will give him ample playing time, and a starting role. As for us, it will not be the first time that we did not properly value great talent.
Acie Law is apparently stuck in Europe (or wherever)
without an opt-out clause in his contract. Not that it matters.
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
cool.
no way we were going to bring him back anyways.
Any bets that he follows Keith Smart to Sacramento?
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 29, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
Bring back Reggie for sure
We have no idea how Klay will turn out, Reggie can act as a safety net of sorts.
MOON LANDING? BEAR GRYLLS!
Klay is guaranteed, though
If they sign Reggie, it takes up cap room we probably need to sign Nene, Chandler, etc.
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
based on Lacobs comments, money might not be an issue this season
I wouldnt be surprised if they make Reggie a low ball offer. he has enough value to be held as a backup (consider the injury plagued seasons we have seen) even if he puts us slightly over the cap.
Also, I think chemistry will be worth a lot in this shortened season and Reggie can potentially offer a lot in that department. Ownership wants to deliver on that playoff promise, too much turn over will make that difficult even if they make a really good personnell move
by warriorsvictim on Nov 29, 2011 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
based on Lacobs comments, money might not be an issue this season
money is always an issue when you have a salary cap. you can’t just pay people whatever you want. and sure you can make him a low offer, but hes likely going to get a bigger one elsewhere. i wouldn’t consider offering reggie a near minimum contract as an honest attempt to keep him
Al Thornton is the man.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I forgot we even had that guy.
Crazy T!!!!
by Billy Frijoles on Nov 29, 2011 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
haha
TCG all day forget williams, let him go.
by bballinpacisler on Dec 1, 2011 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
Williams or Roy
Whichever of the 2 is cheaper should be the one we sign.
The Autumn wind is a Raider
Pillaging just for fun
He'll knock you 'round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Reggie's also better than Roy now...
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
Reggie couldn't have done what Brandon Roy did against Dallas in the playoffs.
So no, he’s not better than him. His health is better, and he may actually be worth more in the future, but Brandon is still the better player.
It’s a joke to even consider otherwise.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
And if we go by that
Kobe Bryant’s the greatest player of all time because he scored 81 points in one game.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
No. That was what, 5 years ago for Kobe now?
Roy’s amazing comeback 23-point quarter came last playoffs. You know, the last time we saw any NBA?
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Maybe not.
But he’s still better right now. See how, above, I wrote he might actually be worth less than Reggie because of his health issues.
He can still do things that many other NBA players can’t. Until i SEE that he loses that ability, no way do I rate him lower as a player than Reggie Williams.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
If he shows ability once every 10 games, does he really have it? Or is he just not terrible?
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
Again you're exagerating
Monta has consistency issues, no denying that.
However people like to forget where they are from. It’s from over-useage and poor coaching.
Role. Monta as a second option is very efficient and a nightmare for opposing teams. He proved it in 07-08, when he averaged 20 ppg on .58TS% and he’s a much more complete player now.
Keep in mind Jason Terry’s TS% as a Hawk (6 seasons, over 5000 shots) was .532, his Mavericks career hovers around .580. Jamal Crawford was below .530TS% for his career, then he gets to atlanta and sees a huge spike. Monta’s a much more gifted scorer than both of these players.
Monta is overpaid, but he’s basically paid to be a 2nd or 3rd option.
Reggie on the otherhand is not a special player. At no point will he ever be the 2nd/3rd option on a winning team. He’s a nice scorer off the bench. But this team really doesn’t need to commit more money to bench. We need to commit money to an actual starting 5.
So it’s a question of price. Personally I’d consider trading Monta if we got a good offer, that would include the likes of Rudy Gay who is probably more gifted all around. However considering his contract only gets more attractive on the open market, I wouldn’t dump him for the sake of it, or to bring back Reggie. I’d amnesty Lee after Stienmetz made a strong case for fact Warriors are likely only going to have to pay for half the contract. I’d do same thing with Biedrins that I did with Monta, except in his case, i would dump him for cap relief. Out of the 3 Monta is one I’d trade the least though. He has most potential to help us if we get an actual superstar.
by tafkasam on Nov 30, 2011 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Can you read?
I was talking about Roy…
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 30, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
I would take Reggie over Roy for a whole season, definitely for a full multi-year contract
but Roy in a single game over Reggie for sure
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 30, 2011 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
1 out of 10?
His averages off the bench in the series vs Dallas were actually decent overall. He had another good game off the bench and another solid one. He only really got a chance in 5 games, so 3 out of 5 good games isn’t bad.
In the 5 games he played 20+ minutes (including his horrible game 1), he shot over 50% from the field, averaged 11 points and 3 assists per game, and totaled 3 turnovers through the 5 games. He missed 5 of 13 free throws, but do you really think that’s because of his knees?
And yes, if I can get a game like that every 10 games for the same price of Reggie Williams, it’s a done deal, because 1 night of star player and 9 nights of role player > 10 nights of role player. And there is a CHANCE that he’s going to be able to provide more than that. There’s also the chance he has nothing left at all. So he’s obviously a huge risk. At the same price as Reggie Williams, I definitely give him a chance. Brandon Roy strikes me as a guy who’s going to fight this as long as he can, and do everything possible to keep his knees healthy. I’d sign him and be right there with him, because if it ever did get better, or he was just able to not let it affect him, he’d be a huge contributor.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
I seriously have no idea what you're even trying to prove.
Roy’s finished. Doctor’s say his knees are that of a 50 year old I heard. Reggie’s a productive player. Roy is not.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Roy doesn't believe that.
Doctors also believe that a good amount of people who currently walk on two feet would be in a wheelchair for the rest of their life, or that a terminal cancer patient has a month, when they live 6 more years. Just because they say it does not make it so. The fact that he was able to have such an incredible performance after his diagnosis shows that he’s fighting it, and even if he can only outlast it for a while, his ability isn’t gone.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
And Marcus Fizer believes he still has an NBA career waiting for him
Belief is powerful, but it doesn’t trump facts. Roy’s missed a lot of games. Portland is happy to let him go, even though they offered oft-injured Greg Oden 9 million.
If it was a weakness in his game, he could potentially overcome it. But better players than Brandon Roy have had their careers cut short by injury.
I wouldn’t be comfortable offering anything longer than a single year. Let someone else make the mistake of signing him to 3-4Kira’s years.
by Uwe Blog on Nov 30, 2011 8:11 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
And some have responded to still be very productive starters in the league.
A lot of people thought Grant Hill should have been done. He’s STILL a starting SF in the NBA. Nene overcame cancer. Antonio McDyess is still in the league. There are others as well. A doctor’s prognosis on Brandon Roy would convince me not to commit a long contract to him. It would convince me not to give him over $5M. But it wouldn’t stop me from giving him a chance. Even a lesser Brandon Roy would make a great 6th man or role player off the bench.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
agreed to a degree
but the Dubs don’t have much cap room.
If we spend anything on Roy, that pretty much takes us out of the FA market
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 30, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Well yeah.
A center and some defensive perimeter players come first. But the same goes for Reggie in that situation. If both were available at the same cost after we made our other signings, I’d take Roy for 2-3 years before Reggie.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Williams should be cheaper and healthier. I think he's an early bird restricted agent which means "greater of 175% of previous salary ($762 K) or average salary."
Reggie makes sense for me since he can shoot the 3-ball and backup PG. So he’s not a great defensive player. I mean we want a defensive player, but don’t think it will be a huge issue with this team. LOL.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
I wouldn't invest any money into Reggie othe than the qualifying offer.
At least until we’ve addressed our other much more pressing issues. I want a big defensive wing before we bring him back, and I want a center. If no one’s signed him to an offer sheet by then, give him a small, 2-3 year contract.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
by Brownie13 on Nov 29, 2011 5:22 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Why shouldn't we keep Reggie at 3/14 and keep Monta at 3/33?
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Because Reggie isn't worth nearly 5 million a year.
not to our team, who’s problem isn’t putting the ball in the basket.
And even if u think Monta is paid too much, that’s not justification to shell out more money to a scorer known to play bad defense. If anything, it should be a reminder not to. Remember, Monta had a great TS% when he was a role player too. And $5 is too much for a one-dimensional role player.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Brownie
I agree 100% with what you’re saying. Reggie Williams is not valuable to an otherwise scoring team.
The addition of Klay obviously puts his future with our team in jeopardy, and we would do well to spend our money on a veteran swingman like Shane Battier. We need versatile defenders now.
WE DON'T KNOW KLAY IS AN NBA PLAYER YET!!
He was the 11th pick in a historically weak draft. #11 picks rarely amount to role players even. It’s a lot to assume he’ll already be better than one of the best bench scorers in the league.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Do we need a bench scorer?
We need defense in terms of role players. Stagger our main 3 scorers minutes.
I just don’t think we need to commit more dollars to players like Reggie. We should be cutting money really.
We don’t know if Klay is an NBA player yet!! He was the 11th pick in a historically weak draft. #11 picks rarely amount to role players even. It’s a lot to assume he’ll already be better than one of the best bench scorers in the league.
Right, and lottery picks selected by Jerry West rarely fade into obscurity. It would be a lot for me to assume that he’ll be better than Reggie, but not Jerry West. There’s a difference.
You should know that there is plenty of cap room to be had by players who will prove to be more useful than Williams.
Right, and lottery picks selected by Jerry West rarely fade into obscurity.
His picks in Memphis were not good at all.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 30, 2011 11:34 PM PST up reply actions
The thing is Reggie's already scored better than Monta did in the one efficient season.
Monta was 19 points per 36 on 58% TS% while Reggies been at 17.5 points per 36 on 59-60% TS% the last 2 seasons. IT’s also been shown players get better with more PT, and it’s obvious this is true for Reggie.
And $5 is too much for a one-dimensional role player.
What is Monta? What is David Lee?
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
dude
please tell me you are not calling Lee a one-dimensional player?!
in his case, I would say that there is only one dimension that he is NOT good at
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 30, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
And
Him and Monta are already on the team. Why add another?
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
I dunno
as long as the cost isn’t too high, I definitely get why folks would want to hang onto Reggie.
As an aside, I’m still not completely sold that player performance metrics should be equally applied to everyone. It’s just my gut feeling, but I can’t shake the feeling that Monta’s inefficiency has a whole lot to do with him trying to do too much for the team….but this may just be me trying to rationalize hanging on to Monta because I like watching him take it to the hole
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 30, 2011 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Why is it obviously true for him?
He has yet to be a regular 6th man, let alone a regular starter. He’s come off the bench as a role playing scorer for two below-average teams.
Monta is bad defensively, but he still makes plays on that end, and they’re the kind that often lead directly to fast break points. He also creates offense for his teammates, able to penetrate and pass for easy jump shots.
David Lee is a CAREER double double player. He rebounds and scores. How does that slip your mind?
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Why is 3/33 for Monta not then?
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 29, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
LOL that's exactly what I was saying before.
I don’t dislike what Monta brings to this team, but:
And even if u think Monta is paid too much, that’s not justification to shell out more money to a scorer known to play bad defense. If anything, it should be a reminder not to.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
It is
Though not as bad as you make it seem. Jason Terry made the same. Put Monta in Terry’s role he’d likely score more efficiently and on more volume.
Monta’s a 2nd/3rd option on a good team, he just doesn’t have dirk, durant, lebron (you know the list) type of player to play off of.
Eitherway totally irrelevant point. You could just as well say why is 3/27 mil not for biedrins? Why is 5/69mil not too much for Lee?
They are all too much. In an ideal world, Monta and Lee are 7.5-10 mil players (I’d say Scola’s 5 year/40 mil is a good benchmark for DLee, Monta we’ll say at 8 mil a year too).
Terry's a better shooter and passer though.
I don’t think the comparisons are apt.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Nov 30, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
I doubt a team will offer Reggie 3/14, but who knows. Roy or Thornton could get around there.
Reggie was constrained by Smart last year to play backup PG and pass and handle the rock more. If Jackson let’s him shoot, he can score in a hurry from outside. It will be good to keep him just for trade bait.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Reggie didn't play much PG...
Acie did. Reggie’s assists per minute and assist/turnover ration went down last season because he played almost exclusively away from the ball rather than in a dual role under Nelson the season before.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Reggie is restricted, so we probably can match his offer. He only made $762 K last year.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
also seems like there are a ton of wings available this year, so maybe less interest in Reggie.
I could easily see one of the more astute teams (rockets or spurs) making a run at him
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Nov 30, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
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