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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Newest Golden State Warriors: Kwame Brown, Dominic McGuire, and Brandon Rush

Photo

I woke up to the following tweet from @feltbot this morning:

feltbot
@thecity2 Can you put up something on Brandon Rush's defensive prowess? I found this thread to get you started: http://t.co/2QMPDHVq
12/18/11 5:10 AM

It made more sense when a few minutes later I found out we apparently traded Lou Amundson for the aforementioned Indiana Pacers player. In this article, I'll run through a few stats on these newest acquisitions, who figure to get fairly substantial minutes this season. I did not include Ish Smith because he played so few minutes last season, and my guess is that he won't see the floor that much this season. Make sure to read my Advanced Statistical Primer, if you need to refresh yourself on some of the terminology.

Star-divide

Kwame Brown

105688_cavaliers_bobcats_basketball_medium

via cdn0.sbnation.com

RATES

Last season Kwame shot 55% TS, which is above his career average of 52.4%, and 1% above the league average. This came on 14.9% USG, which is slightly below the league average of 15.7% for centers. Interestingly, his TOV% was only 12.9%, which is well below his career average of 16.6% and also way below the league average 17.2% rate for centers last season. As Hollinger pointed out in his player capsule for Kwame, that figure could be an anomaly, and we probably shouldn't expect a repeat performance in this category. In terms of rebounding, Brown's OREB% and DREB% were 10.3% and 21.6%, respectively, which were both about 1% above his career averages, but just about at league averages for the center position, albeit slightly below.

RAPM

189_medium

via stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com

For last season, Kwame's offensive RAPM (ORAPM) was -1.6 and his defensive RAPM (DRAPM) was -0.7 giving a total of -2.3. As much as people have been talking about Kwame's defense, I was fully expecting to see a higher DRAPM. HIs rating isn't terrible, and it looks like he's improved over the past 5 seasons, but anybody expecting Tyson Chandler on defense should think again. By the way, that huge peak in 2007 is likely an anomaly, although in that season with the Lakers, Kwame shot 57.3% TS, which was by far his best as a pro.

ezPM

Kwame's total ezPM was -1.81 last season. That was broken down into -1.51 O100 (pure offense; ranked #23 out of 37 among centers with above average possessions), -0.71 D100 (pure defense; ranked #36 out of 37 right behind Biedrins and with only Bargnani below him), and 0.4 REB100 (pure rebounding; #20/37). His offensive efficiency (OEFF) was -10.7 per 100 possessions (#24/37), meaning he is not efficient at all on offense. As part of ezPM, I keep track of each player's counterpart eFG%. Centers shot 59.5% eFG% against Kwame, which ranked #34/37.

PSAMS

Overall: -0.91

INS: 0.34 MID: -1.18 3PT: 0.03 FT: -0.10

These are not terrible numbers. He is slightly above average in terms of inside scoring, and not a good mid-range shooter. Nothing shocking or especially noteworthy here.

SYNERGY

OFFENSE

DEFENSE

%TIME

#

PPP

RANK

%TIME

#

PPP

RANK

OVERALL

100.0%

543

0.96

137

100.0%

326

0.89

216

ISO

1.5%

8

0.75

19.9%

65

0.92

252

P&R BALL

POST

27.4%

149

0.90

67

39.6%

129

0.94

202

P&R MAN

9.0%

49

1.16

23

10.1%

33

0.91

56

SPOT

6.3%

34

0.71

327

26.1%

85

0.73

9

SCREEN

HAND

CUT

28.9%

157

1.25

114

OREB

14.0%

76

0.99

144

TRANS

2.6%

14

1.36

OTHER

10.1%

55

0.20

260

According to Synergy, on offense, Kwame's strengths are in the post and rolling on the PNR, although the latter only makes up 9% of his total offensive plays. But his post-up efficiency is far better than anyone on the Warriors last season. Kwame was also (surprisingly) efficient cutting to the basket given his reputation for stone hands. He is not a good spot-up shooter, but he only took 34 of those last season, so we shouldn't worry about that, especially since most likely he won't be playing as many minutes.

Defensively, Kwame appears to be strong defending spot-up shots, ranking 9th in the entire NBA. This hasn't been talked about by anyone in the media, who focus on his post defense (which isn't as strong according to Synergy), but it will be quite welcome on this team when he plays next to Lee. You might remember when I previously discussed Synergy stats for Warriors defense last season, I raved about Udoh's ability to defend the spot-up shot. For reference, Udoh's PPP on those shots was 0.74 and he ranked 12th in the NBA.

Summary

Based on his performance last season, I think we can expect Kwame to be a serviceable (ugh, I can't believe I'm using that word, but it fits here) big off the bench, somewhat better than Lou or Gadz, for example. In all likelihood, he will be the 4th big in the rotation coming off the bench behind Udoh. Kwame will be able to give fouls and occasionally have a play set for him. At $7M for 1 year, Kwame is not a long-term risk, and he definitely makes our bench deeper.

Dominic McGuire

Dominic_mcguire_timofey_mozgov_new_york_knicks_81r0nqcbo4ol_medium

via www3.pictures.zimbio.com

RATES

Offense is not his forte. McGuire shots 43.7% TS on 13.8% USG last season. His TOV rate was a low 11.2%, which is much better than his 19% career average. Maybe someone finally told him that he needs to never ever handle the ball. McGuire *can* rebound, though. Dude had a 10.9% OREB% and 21.8% DREB% last season, which is slightly higher than Kwame! That's nice. To put this in perspective, the average OREB% for small forwards was 4.2% last season, and the average OREB% was 13.9%. McGuire crushes those numbers. He should definitely help our rebounding.

RAPM

703_medium

via stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com

You might want to turn your head now, as McGuire's RAPM ratings are a little scary. His ORAPM last season was -3.4, while his DRAPM was quite a bit better at -1.4. His total RAPM rating was -4.8, which is below replacement level (usually taken to be around -3.3). The ratings are fairly consistent for McGuire over the past several years, suggesting that he really is that bad. Although he did look good in last night's pre-season game, I would be very cautiously optimistic about him after studying these numbers.

ezPM

McGuire's ezPM rating was +0.74, which is obviously more positive than his RAPM rating. Keep in mind, RAPM and ezPM are two completely different rating methods, and although there is a fairly large amount of correlation between them, they can and often do disagree on players. His O100 was -2.44, which ranked 59/72 for small forward with > 1000 possessions last season. With a -17.5 OEFF rating (#65/72), he is apparently more inept than Kwame Brown on the offensive side. McGuire's D100 was +0.41, which ranked 52/72. His counterparts shots 54.2% eFG% against him (ranking 45/72). Where McGuire looks really good according to ezPM should come as no surprise...His REB100 rating was +2.77 which ranked 1st among this group. On a team that desperately needs to improve rebounding, that looks pretty good.

PSAMS

N/A (I didn't include him in my calculations because he didn't meet my original possession cutoff.)

SYNERGY

OFFENSE

DEFENSE

%TIME

#

PPP

RANK

%TIME

#

PPP

RANK

OVERALL

100.0%

223

0.76

421

100.0%

248

0.80

50

ISO

10.8%

24

0.54

N/A

18.5%

46

0.72

68

P&R BALL

4.0%

9

0.67

N/A

8.5%

21

0.57

N/A

POST

4.0%

9

0.89

N/A

16.1%

40

0.65

14

P&R MAN

1.3%

3

1.00

N/A

6.9%

17

0.76

N/A

SPOT

27.4%

61

0.57

349

37.1%

92

0.98

184

SCREEN

4.5%

10

0.40

N/A

8.1%

20

0.85

N/A

HAND

2.7%

6

0.00

N/A

4.4%

11

0.73

N/A

CUT

11.7%

26

1.08

199

OREB

14.3%

32

1.16

56

TRANS

12.1%

27

1.15

151

OTHER

7.2%

16

0.25

N/A

The story that Synergy tells is similar to the other stats. Offensively, McGuire is inept. Why he shoots so many jumpers is beyond me. Someone needs to tell him to stop doing that, hopefully, Mark Jackson realizes this. Defensively, Dominic uses his size to effectively defend ISO and POST. His SPOT defense is average, but on this team, for a guy coming off the bench and costing as little as he does, that's probably good enough.

Summary

Dominic is the definition of a specialist, although I'm not quite sure whether his specialty is defense or rebounding at this point. Regardless, on this team, both those parts of his game will undoubtedly help, and his offensive shortcomings will likely be tolerable on most nights.

Brandon Rush

Brandonrush_medium

via sportsrantz.com

RATES

The newest Warriors acquisition is Brandon Rush (apparently), coming over from the Pacers. Rush has improved his TS% each of his 3 years in the league: 50.5%, 52.2%, and 54.0% last season. That's a positive sign. His USG was 15.9% last season which is below the average of 20% for SG. Rush is therefore currently a low-volume shooter with average efficiency, but he appears to be trending upward. His OREB% and DREB% were 2.1% and 11.6%, both right around the league averages for shooting guards. His TOV% was 10.2, which is below the average of 12% for SG. So far, these numbers are encouraging.

RAPM

763_medium

via stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com

Rush's ORAPM last season was -2.4. His DRAPM was -1.2. Add these two together for a -3.6 total RAPM rating, which isn't good at all. Moreover, that hint of positive trending in his shooting efficiency doesn't appear to show up in his ORAPM curve over the last three seasons (blue line).

ezPM

Among SG with above average #possessions, Rush ranked #30 out of 54 with a +0.12 ezPM100 rating. His O100 rating of -1.89 placed him 46/54, and his -12.7 OEFF rating ranked a lowly 51/54. These numbers are in line with his ORAPM rating and taken together suggest his offense leaves quite a bit to be desired overall. Defensively, though, his +2.31 D100 rating ranked 8/54, which is very good. To give you an idea of the company he was in , here are the top 10 players in D100 last season:

Ronnie Brewer

Tony Allen

Shannon Brown

Paul George

Carlos Delfino

Kobe Bryant

Corey Brewer

Brandon Rush

Dwyane Wade

Gerald Henderson

Rush's counterparts at SG only shot 47.7 eFG% against him, which was 5th among the 54 SG in this group. Rush and Paul George clearly made a great defensive combo on the perimeter for Indiana last season.

Finally, in terms of rebounding, Rush had a REB100 rating of -0.30 which placed him middle of the pack (30/54).

PSAMS

OVERALL: -1.52 INS: -0.35 MID-RANGE: -1.33 3-PT: 1.03 FT: -0.86

Rush is below average in all categories except 3-pt shooting. He doesn't draw a lot of fouls and his mid-range efficiency is not that great.

SYNERGY

OFFENSE

DEFENSE

%TIME

#

PPP

RANK

%TIME

#

PPP

RANK

OVERALL

100.0%

640

0.96

137

100.0%

624

0.83

83

ISO

9.8%

63

0.70

192

22.9%

143

0.65

37

P&R BALL

8.4%

54

0.63

164

25.2%

157

0.76

58

POST

0.3%

2

0.00

N/A

5.4%

34

0.82

101

P&R MAN

1.4%

9

0.89

N/A

SPOT

33.8%

216

1.10

66

25.0%

156

1.07

293

SCREEN

11.7%

75

0.83

86

13.3%

83

0.83

56

HAND

8.4%

54

0.89

53

6.4%

40

0.90

55

CUT

6.6%

42

1.45

20

OREB

2.3%

15

1.20

N/A

TRANS

13.0%

83

1.22

103

OTHER

5.6%

36

0.28

222

Rush is an interesting case. His offensive Synergy stats seem at odds with his RAPM rating. According to Synergy, Rush is a very capable spot-up shooter and score in a number of different ways. His defensive numbers are also quite good, with the lone exception of defense on spot-up plays, where he is somewhat below average. Overall, with his positive ISO and PNR ratings, Rush appears to be an above average on-ball defender.

Summary

Rush demonstrates why it is important to look at multiple stats when evaluating a player. His RAPM rating suggests a player that is well below average, but his "traditional" advanced stats (TS%, REB%, TOV%, etc), his ezPM, and Synergy stats present a somewhat different story. Given that Amundson was in all likelihood going to have a smaller role this season, and that we let Reggie Williams go, I think Rush may end up being a really nice addition to this team. He's 26, so we cannot expect too much more improvement. But as long as he gives 100% effort for Mark Jackson, and is content with a role coming off the bench, my guess is that Rush could end up being this year's Dorell Wright. A solid acquisition who will appear to be a bargain this season. Also, he's in the last year of his rookie contract, so he will be looking to impress (and make more money next year!).

Overall

Each of these acquisitions in isolation are not awe-inspiring, but taken together, they suggest a real commitment to defense and rebounding improvement this year. There is no doubt that Tyson Chandler would have made a bigger impact, but to be honest, I think I'm happier with these 3 moves in combination, than I would have been handing over a truckload of cash over several seasons to DeAndre Jordan. Jackson and Riley definitely have talked the talk when it comes to defense, and now it appears they really are starting to walk the walk. To sum up:

These are some grown man moves that we made here.

Comment 80 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Thank you

Thank you for the excellent analysis. I learn so much every time. I love that you went past RAPM and ORAPM. I think it is unfair because he has Paul George playing behind him. George is just a stud. If you get compared with replacing an awesome player, you are going to look horrible.

by pericles31081 on Dec 18, 2011 9:08 AM PST reply actions  

I like the Rush aquisition

Amundson was sub-par and wouldn’t have got much minutes, and Rush gives us a good defender to back up monta/wright. Great move to add depth.

keep em both.

by dandubz on Dec 18, 2011 10:14 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Nice write-up!

Thanks for the breakdown!!

Just goes along with the old adage “if you wanna play better defense, you must get better defensive players”

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 18, 2011 10:42 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

He’s our Dennis Rodman. And if he plays to that role, he will be a very, very worthwhile acquisition.

by slapchop on Dec 18, 2011 6:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Dennis Rodman is imo the best utility player ever to play the game. However, every team should have a guy that fills that niche. No one will ever do it as well as he did, ever. Period. But still, that should be our target for him.

by slapchop on Dec 19, 2011 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

He’s our Dennis Rodman.

I thought Lou is that guy.

by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Dec 19, 2011 12:02 AM PST up reply actions  

and now

tell me who is this Ish Smith kid

Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.

by Lat We N Trash on Dec 18, 2011 10:57 AM PST reply actions  

Haha good one

The Autumn wind is a Raider
Pillaging just for fun
He'll knock you 'round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.

by duballers23 on Dec 18, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions  

lol

so -now can you tell me in which way?

Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.

by Lat We N Trash on Dec 18, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

He’s a super quick, diminutive PG out of Wake Forest. He’s considered a true point guard prospect, as opposed to the other million combo guards out there, but he is obviously still very green. He should be fun to watch if he plays.

Big Baby Jesus 2012

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 18, 2011 2:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Looks like he can ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgUqtcpREY4

The Autumn wind is a Raider
Pillaging just for fun
He'll knock you 'round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.

by duballers23 on Dec 18, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh nvm

Didn’t see the video

The Autumn wind is a Raider
Pillaging just for fun
He'll knock you 'round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.

by duballers23 on Dec 18, 2011 11:28 AM PST up reply actions  

This is my consolation prize for not getting Brandon Jennings.

It is so refreshing to see those legit point guard skills. We haven’t had a player this flashy at the 1 since BD. Let’s hope he sticks around and gets some minutes.

Big Baby Jesus 2012

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 18, 2011 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

who is this Ish kid?

He’s the little Splish to go with our big Splash .

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 19, 2011 5:25 PM PST up reply actions  

don't overlook the obvious

the compressed schedule + much higher level of activity on defense means they’ll go 10-11 in the rota.
Strong perimeter d combined with the revived open court offense is exhausting — some of the vets who’d been diligent in the off season still looked winded last night. Thompson’s legs and lungs will get the rookie initiation and more, and the schedule could bring injury and the normal viral infections that come from stressed immune systems doing frequent air travel. they’ve been awful on perimeter d since the 48 win season ; Rush and McGuire will get the starters to sustain their effort or get benched.

Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)

by the.monk on Dec 18, 2011 11:28 AM PST reply actions  

the compressed schedule

agreed, it’s going to have a huge effect on minutes and play in general

by Evanz on Dec 18, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

On the one hand, I’m looking forward to seeing all these new faces try to make a name for themselves. On the other, I want our more prominent players to maintain or improve their trade value. Regardless, this team is going to be so much more fun to watch, even if they are more defense oriented.

Big Baby Jesus 2012

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 18, 2011 2:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Really interesting analysis. Thanks.

I'm the soul brotha' like no other!

by Naticus on Dec 18, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions  

McGuire looked pretty solid to me last night. Yes, one pre-season game will determine EVERYTHING. Book it.

by Doctor Kajita on Dec 18, 2011 11:35 AM PST reply actions  

O.T. but I got a question to ask you guys..

I got a buddy who is a Kings fan and he said he is tired of the Kings losing. He also said that he is gonna start rolling with the Blazers because they have a lot of good players and potential. Is he considered a fake fan because he left his team hanging?

The Bay is the place to be!!

by Mashed Potatoes on Dec 18, 2011 11:36 AM PST reply actions  

it’s cool to root for a second team, but you have to remain faithful to your #1.

49er faithful since July 11, 1985

by J2daZ on Dec 18, 2011 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

If the Kings move, it's ok

I’ll give him credit for at least not jumping over to MIA, NYK, or an LA team.

I wouldn’t call him fake- just not very loyal

by ERock386 on Dec 18, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

haha

yeah, dude should clearly hop on the Clippers bandwagon

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 19, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Good analysis

Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........

mykelala01 is like the bouncer with the red rope for GSOM. You’re good to come in now.

by TheSoundOfHockey on Apr 24, 2011 9:24 PM PDT

by mykelala01 on Dec 18, 2011 11:42 AM PST reply actions  

Thanks Evan!

This is all research I was planning on doing soon, and you went and put it all in one place and added some excellent analysis. Great work man.

I must say I really like the Rush trade. It was clear that Lou was going to be the odd man out, and had the type of contract that would allow you to find a trade for a guy that would be a better fit. Rush seems to fit the bill as a defender that can shoot well enough to space the floor on offense. I loved this comment:

my guess is that Rush could end up being this year’s Dorell Wright. A solid acquisition who will appear to be a bargain this season.

That is exactly how I felt when I read the news. I really like that when the front office struck out in free agency they didn’t overreact. Patience, and small moves like this is the only way to go at this point. If you continue to find value where you can, and don’t fill the roster with bad contracts, then when the opportunity to make a major move presents itself you’ll be ready.

Now if this team can manage their assets intelligently, and cherish their draft picks instead of trading them away for bench players, then they can keep moving in the right direction. This could still prove to be a tough year, but I’m starting to see things line up in a promising way for the long term future of the franchise. We all wanted immediate results, but unfortunately it seems like this will have to be a slow-and-steady sort of race instead of the quick turn around that we are all craving.

by olympicmike on Dec 18, 2011 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

my guess is that Rush could end up being this year’s Dorell Wright. A solid acquisition who will appear to be a bargain this season.

I don’t think Rush has the upside potential DoorL had. DoorL was a lot more hidden than Rush was, Rush is more like a Devean George or Mike Dunleavey , well known players that everyone expects to do good but that never quite get it together.

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 19, 2011 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

people expect Devean George and Mike Dunleavey to do well?

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 19, 2011 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

people expect Devean George and Mike Dunleavey to do well?

When they were drafted they all had pretty high expectations among a lot of fans but they all had trouble living up to the hopes.
Rush looks like he’s probably already about what he’s gonna be if that’s good enough but observation showed DoorL was likely to be much better than what he was.

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 19, 2011 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Augsberg College alumni are an extremely vocal and demanding group ;)

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 19, 2011 9:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

were expectations really that high?

yeah, the lakers pick gave him cred and for a couple of years he created hope for better things to come from him.

Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 19, 2011 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Great writeup

Very informative. I like the Rush addition the best out of all because we traded something we don’t need (a “defensive” big that provides no low post offense) for something we do need (a 2 guard with some size who might be able to guard opposing two’s decently). Somewhat concerning is the fact that he couldn’t establish himself over Mike Dunleavy Jr, but whatever. Still would’ve preferred us to sign Reggie, but best signing thus far Warriors

HARBAUGH FOR PRESIDENT 2012
NINERS SUPERBOWL OR BUST
FREDERICK P. SOFT NOWHERE TO BE FOUND

by Tom Huddlestone on Dec 18, 2011 12:19 PM PST reply actions  

totally excited about the Rush trade! I had really wanted the Dubz to draft him, but he went the pick before that year. Family are big Kansas fans since my dad, aunts and uncles all went there. Rush in his time at Kansas was a strong defender who had a good long range game as well as not having problems getting to the hoop. I agree that getting him here and getting playing time could make him this year’s Dorrell. Can’t wait.

by dannyschmanny on Dec 18, 2011 12:25 PM PST reply actions  

Grew up going to KU games and Roy Williams camp, and I love the B Rush pickup. He played well on that Kansas Championship run. Great length on D and I think him and Dorrell will make a very surprisingly great duo at the Warriors 3 spot.

6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting

by Another Successful Tedford QB on Dec 19, 2011 9:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Dominic Mcguire will pay off if he makes the team. Our second unit can actually keep a lead now, once we get Kwame in the flow of things.

by J-RIDAH on Dec 18, 2011 12:47 PM PST reply actions  

rarely does a trade of big for small make sense

but the Rush deal does – two bench players who will better fit the needs of their new teams now after the KB signing

re

At $7M for 1 year, Kwame is not a long-term risk, and he definitely makes our bench deeper.

100% agree, and then some – KB is also a poor man’s starting C and serving as insurance against a continued slide in AB’s career. If Andris can recover some of his confidence and effectiveness then we might have the deepest rotation of bigs since, since, well since a whole long time ago – even assuming zero from Tyler

Rush and Brown do not make us a playoff team, necessarily, but they are moves that reinforce my confidence that Riley can make moves on the margin to improve us.

We need so much more than marginal improvement though, that only a Harbaughesque first year from our rookie coach will bring the roster as it is constructed into the postseason

~ an original fan of the SF Warriors

by hardcore on Dec 18, 2011 2:24 PM PST reply actions  

Excellent work, Evanz. Thanks.

I’m really curious about the discrepancy between Rush’s RAPM and the other stats. What would be some possible explanations?

by Lacob's Ladder on Dec 18, 2011 3:04 PM PST reply actions  

I've wanted Rush since he came out of Kansas.

Never understood why he didn’t regular minutes for the Pacers. He does a lot of things well, and is a very good man-to-man defender.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 18, 2011 4:38 PM PST reply actions  

I'm hoping he puts it all together

He’s got the tools to be a very good rotation wing.

To date hes been like most young players, inconsistent.

by tafkasam on Dec 18, 2011 7:23 PM PST up reply actions  

He can't drive.

He has horrible handles and he can’t finish at the rim.

by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 18, 2011 7:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Strengths:
Shooting the ball
Man-to-man defense

Weaknesses:
Rebounding
Off-ball defense
Movement without the ball on offense

All of his negative attributes are direct results of him being a drifter when he’s not directly involved in the play. The thing is, I don’t know that it’s his natural tendency. I see signs every time I watch him play that it’s a product of how he was used in Indiana. Considering the way he played at Kansas, I feel like his identity in the NBA is yet to be decided. I’m not talking in terms of an improvement in skills, but a change in the way that he plays dictated by his coaching staff. He was not the only Pacer that did a lot of standing around.

I’m curious. What makes you say he has horrible handles? He doesn’t turn the ball over a lot. And he’s done a lot more handling of the ball than he should have in his time with the Pacers. They don’t put the ball in the hands of their PGs enough. There’s a reason that Collison racks up so few assists. They have a very basic offense that relies entirely too much on isolation plays. Since you’re going to want statistical evidence, here you go:

28th in APG, and 26th in AST%

Only playoff team lower was Memphis, who’s entire offense is predicated off-of feeding the ball to the post. Indiana’s is not. The other teams below them in either category were the Bucks, Kings, Wizards, and Timberwolves. That’s bad.

He’s not a facilitator, in any way. But a 68% assisted basket rate isn’t nearly high enough for a guy who gets more than half his points from beyond the arc and is largely regarded as only a catch-and-shoot type of player. He can score off the dribble in the mid-range, but he’s not athletic enough to be asked to create his own points regularly, which he, and many others in Indiana were asked to do.

I would hope that he’d be asked to do very little ball-handling here, with Monta and Steph, and even Dorell clearly being better at it than him. Also, I’d look for him to move more off of the ball, and find better looks around the perimeter. He really shouldn’t be used that much, and I’d expect to see him more at the 3 than the 2 anyway, since management seems to want Klay to get minutes. Bottom line, is he does one thing nobody on our team is very good at. He plays good man-to-man defense. That’s all I want him to do besides knock down open shots.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 18, 2011 8:25 PM PST up reply actions  

But a 68% assisted basket rate isn’t nearly high enough for a guy who gets more than half his points from beyond the arc and is largely regarded as only a catch-and-shoot type of player.

What makes you say that?

JJ Redick, Dorell Wright, Arron Afflalo and Anthony Morrow are all right within that range, and all regarded as primarily catch and shoot players. It’s not extreme like Kyle Korver, but it’s significantly higher than the average shooting guard.

by Spider Jerusalem on Dec 18, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, in general, SGs are scorers.

I wouldn’t consider Brandon Rush a scorer. Not on the level of the 4 players you mentioned. They all have more ability to create their own points than Rush. It worries me when I see his AST% is so much lower than that of Dunleavy’s for the season.

Having watched the games, he gets in far too many situations where he’s asked to put the ball on the floor and score.

I look at Rush more as a Raja Bell offensively. There are too many better offensively players who have higher AST% numbers, like some of the players you mentioned, Ray Allen, Jason Richardson, and Luol Deng. Most of them shoot a significant amount more shots than Rush, so I wonder why an equal percentage of his makes come assisted.

And further than that, I think he ends up with shots that he MISSES that don’t show up in the AST%, that are a product of shooting off the dribble. I simply don’t like the way he was used in Indiana at all.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 18, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess it's hard for me to differentiate the player from the system.

Because he seems to be a similar player in the NBA that he was at Kansas. A lot of catch and shoot threes and then a lot of one or two dribble pull-up jump shots.

by Spider Jerusalem on Dec 19, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't say significant.

I said regular. His minutes, even as a starter, are irregular and somewhat random. He’s quick to be pulled, even on nights he’s playing well. Rather than playing most of his minutes with the starting unit, he often ends up on the court with the backups, playing a role that doesn’t suit him. Not that the role he plays with the starters suits him well either.

He’s had a very short leash in his time with the Pacers, and that’s what I’m mostly getting at.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 18, 2011 9:19 PM PST up reply actions  

The same probem existed.

He got more minutes, but his role was often in flux. He started games and finished with less than 20 minutes of playing time, not due to foul trouble. His job was taken, given back, taken again, and given back again.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 18, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions  

and don't think that he had a bunch of games that were slightly over 20 minutes

because he played 20-25 minutes in only 3 of those 64 starts and 1 of those was due to foul trouble

by bigkino217 on Dec 19, 2011 8:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I wonder if Rush will play some at SF

at least defensively, he’s actually longer in wingspan and reach than Klay, and he’s obviously a lot stronger.

He might get quite a few minutes backing up both Ellis and Wright. Wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up the first player off the bench ever night or coming in with Udoh. I like this second unit:

Jenkins
Klay
Rush
Udoh
Kwame

If Udoh can score a bit, Klay and Rush can shoot 3’s. Who knows, might work.

by Evanz on Dec 19, 2011 8:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I hope he does.

I don’t expect him to get that many minutes at the 2 because of how high on Klay the coaching staff seems, so it’d be the only way he’ll get real significant minutes.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 19, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I didn't cite any specific number.

Regardless, the rest of what I said still holds true.

And I’m not sure how you’re so certain 4 fouls = foul trouble. He picked up 5 in just one of the games you’re referring to. I have a hard time recalling if I caught either of those 4-foul games. I do know that he’s fouled that many times in many games, while still ending up with starters’ minutes. So foul trouble is not necessarily what kept him off the court in either game.

Also, if we’re going to get so specific about the number of games, it was actually 4 starts that fell between 20 and 25 minutes of playing time in 2010.

My confusion with their use has always been stretches like these:

19:16 (Start)
12:41 (Start)
32:16 (Start)
42:11 (Start)
14:48 (Start)
34:17 (Start)

or

33:05 (Start)
27:12 (Start)
15:31 (Start)
08:48 (Bench)
19:41 (Bench)
23:29 (Bench)
23:38 (Start)
35:37 (Start)

or

26:14 (Bench)
19:34 (Bench) – 0 points
14:26 (Bench) – 0 points
33:30 (Bench)
26:01 (Start)
36:32 (Start)
14:32 (Start)
33:45 (Start)

I remember these stretches of games and just being confused. How is it that a guy who plays very poorly off the bench in consecutive games essentially assumes the starting role midway through the team’s next game?

This is something that happened all the time for him. He’d start the game alongside Danny Granger, expected to play a defensive role next to the teams’ top scorer, then end up on the court later in the game being asked to create his own shot with the bench unit. It just seemed like they were asking him to play roles similar to Battier and then Jamal Crawford, often within the same game. Bottom line is he isn’t that good or versatile. It never worked, and it destroyed his ability to find any consistency.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 19, 2011 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Bottom line is he isn’t that good or versatile

something i can agree with

by bigkino217 on Dec 19, 2011 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for taking it out of context.

Not sure if why you continued this if that’s all you were going to do.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 19, 2011 7:34 PM PST up reply actions  

And you know this already.

But given the thickheadness pervading most of your posts, I’d expect this to not sink in with you.

by Spider Jerusalem on Dec 18, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Cool story bro

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Dec 18, 2011 9:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Kwame

kwame brown is not good, not matter what people say. i know we need a defender, but there are otheres

by ThePinoyBoss on Dec 18, 2011 8:04 PM PST reply actions  

Name them

at that point in FA, tell me who was better…

…and No Nene…

by joegiant on Dec 19, 2011 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Thank you Evanz

Your contributions help GSoM continue to be the best blog ever.

I think we have an actual NBA bench now, which is nice. It’s been a while. I also agree with you about Deandre Jordan. I’m glad that our bench is rookies and one year contracts. A couple of defense oriented players and a center that provides a slightly different look.

I find myself most intrigued by Ish Smith. I hope we see more of him in the next preseason game.

by Uwe Blog on Dec 19, 2011 12:08 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

I really like to see the synergy stats up here

I really hope to see Udoh get the major minutes at center. I was hoping for a PF/SF shooter that could score off the bench, kind of like Radman to off-set the fact that there is very weak bench scoring right now for any big. Instead we got Rush and I think he seems like he will fit nicely. Rush is a strange player because he shoots lights out from 3 but he cannot hit mid-range jumpers well and doesn’t even shoot FTs that well. Usually when a player is a good 3pt shooter(38%+ consistently) he can also hit FTs and mid range jump shots. I wonder if there is anything our coaching staff can do to correct his deficiencies there.

by brutusbrutus on Dec 19, 2011 1:45 AM PST reply actions  

I wonder if there is anything our coaching staff can do to correct his deficiencies there.

Fine him every time he attempts a 2pt shot.

Man, I don’t care nothing about no Mike Montgomery.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Dec 19, 2011 7:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for a great post!

I am gradually moving beyond WP as I learn more, and you do a great job of explaining more widely accepted advanced metrics. I particularly like how you often mention what league average is when you cite a number. These numbers don’t mean much to casual fans without that context. I would consider doing so in parentheses every time you mention them. Anyway, thanks again and keep up the great work!

by Bigmouth on Dec 19, 2011 8:33 AM PST reply actions  

btw...

I noted this elsewhere in a different thread, but Berri (the “WP” guy) recently made a major change to WP by reducing the value of defensive rebounds by half. He did this after years of other people in the stats community arguing with him about why he was overvaluing rebounds. I was one small voice in that discussion, so I found it gratifying that he finally relented.

Now maybe Congress can agree on some stuff..

by Evanz on Dec 19, 2011 8:37 AM PST up reply actions  

I've actually spent the past few days...

…reading all the posts and comments back and forth on that very debate. Y’all threw down, lol!

Seriously, I very much appreciated yours and Guy’s posts on the subject. What sealed it for me was the bet on Sports Skeptic’s blog about predicting WP48 based on position and Reb48 vs. shooting efficiency.

Glad as well to see Berri took the criticism to heart as he was rather dismissive of his critics.

by Bigmouth on Dec 19, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Great analysis, and thank you, Evanz. Well, we got what we could from the bottom of the barrel!

Always the optimist, that you are, when you put it all in one barrel, it is half-full (instead of half-empty)! Off to another scraping season! It will take a lot of forceful effort, with this crew, to make it to .500. It could be worse. We could have traded Monta, and busted up a potentially 50 point backcourt (under an-other-than-Smart coach; any coach!)

by dinohealth on Dec 19, 2011 2:59 PM PST reply actions  

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