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Let's talk about Monta Ellis

*The majority of this post was written prior to this sexual harassment business.

Monta Ellis is pretty fascinating. He's one of just a small handful of players that are entirely polarizing: we either hate him or we love him, and those few individuals who are in between the two camps are probably bleeding-heart optimists that just aren't quite comfortable dumping on the guy. He has the ability to perform some jaw-dropping visual poetry on the court, all while wearing a Warriors uniform.

Even his most ardent supporters admit that he hasn't exactly turned us into world-beaters. They often look to 2007-2008, the Monta Ellis Gold Standard, as proof that he's capable of greatness being pretty good. The in-betweeners look to that season for hope, even if they deep-down know they're chasing a dream.

So: Is it? GSOM luminaries like Ronaldinho have posited that 2007-2008 (which I will henceforth refer to simply as 2008) is more likely to be an aberration than a repeatable norm, and it's hard to argue otherwise; one "good" season out of six is hardly compelling. Still, what happened in 2008? And why hasn't it happened since? Can we find any evidence, any patterns, to help unlock the secret to a productive Monta Ellis?

Star-divide

The Monta fanboys (and I mean that affectionately) most often reference anecdotal evidence, mostly because the alternative factual evidence is quite damning, but also because there may be some arguments to be made in there. Let's itemize Monta's seasons with oversimplified summaries:

2006: Rookie coming out of high school — easy to disregard this season, no matter what the results.

2007: Not bad at all. A 21 year old, thrust into the starting lineup for most of the season because of an injured JRich, showed marked improvement over his freshman campaign, and the team made the playoffs. Balling!

2008: Gold Standard. Started most of the season, scored 20 PPG at an efficient clip, and narrowly missed the playoffs in an historically and absurdly great Western Conference.

2009: Baron's exodus. Mopedgate. In short, a complete disaster. Monta's 25 games came post-injury when the team was already in the toilet. Hard to put much stock into this season.

2010: Another season in turmoil. We lie to Monta and draft Curry; Captain Jack takes a dump on the city of Oakland; and Nellie is so checked out that he wears flip flops and drinks Blue Hawaiians during practices (not really). Mikki Moore started 20 games. (I had to double-check this; I must have drowned that memory in bourbon and tears.) In short: this was a tumultuous, injury-riddled season of inconsistency and D-League shenanigans.

2011: Keith Smart takes over as head coach a week before training camp and generally does not perform well as a head coach. Andris continues to suck, leaving a rookie power forward as our only solution at center. Not really any other excuses, but hey, Monta DID play better this season!

Now listen: these aren't reasons for suckitude — they're excuses. Tumult can be overcome; it's not an absolute obstacle to success. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, though. So, yes, to some extent these issues assuredly had an impact on Monta's game, and life. It's impossible to determine that extent, unfortunately.

So, now for the other side of the coin: What do the stats tell us? This will be an incredibly incomplete and frankly not very advanced analysis, and I welcome finger-wagging from the smartypants. Here is some data from Basketball-Reference.com:

Per 36 Minutes

Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
2005-06 20 49 3 886 5.4 12.9 .415 1.1 3.3 .341 1.7 2.4 .712 0.9 3.4 4.3 3.2 1.3 0.4 2.4 13.6
2006-07 21 77 53 2638 6.6 13.8 .475 0.5 2.0 .273 3.7 4.9 .763 0.8 2.5 3.3 4.4 1.8 0.3 3.0 17.4
2007-08 22 81 72 3071 7.6 14.4 .531 0.1 0.6 .231 3.8 4.9 .767 1.6 3.2 4.7 3.7 1.5 0.3 2.0 19.2
2008-09 23 25 25 892 7.8 17.4 .451 0.3 1.0 .308 3.1 3.8 .830 0.6 3.8 4.4 3.8 1.6 0.3 2.7 19.1
2009-10 24 64 64 2647 8.6 19.1 .449 1.0 3.1 .338 4.0 5.3 .753 0.6 2.9 3.5 4.6 1.9 0.3 3.3 22.2
2010-11 25 80 80 3227 8.1 18.0 .451 1.5 4.2 .361 3.8 4.8 .789 0.5 2.6 3.1 5.0 1.9 0.3 2.8 21.5
Career 376 297 13361 7.6 16.2 .469 0.8 2.5 .331 3.6 4.7 .770 0.9 2.9 3.8 4.3 1.7 0.3 2.7 19.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Advanced

Season Age G PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg
2005-06 20 49 11.1 .486 .459 2.7 10.7 6.6 14.9 1.9 0.9 14.4 20.2 95 107
2006-07 21 77 15.0 .545 .495 2.5 7.7 5.1 18.8 2.4 0.6 15.9 22.4 104 109
2007-08 22 81 19.0 .580 .536 4.5 9.8 7.0 15.8 2.0 0.6 10.9 21.7 117 111
2008-09 23 25 14.5 .503 .460 1.7 11.5 6.6 17.5 2.1 0.6 12.4 25.8 99 114
2009-10 24 64 16.7 .517 .476 1.9 9.0 5.4 21.2 2.6 0.7 13.4 29.4 99 112
2010-11 25 80 18.6 .536 .493 1.5 8.5 4.9 23.4 2.6 0.5 12.3 28.1 107 112
Career 376 16.8 .537 .494 2.6 9.1 5.8 19.4 2.3 0.6 13.0 25.1 105 111

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Obviously the biggest difference between 2008 and any other season was Monta's efficiency. His TS% (.580) and eFG% (.536) were considerably higher than in any other season, as was his standard FG% — 53.1%. There is one shooting category that goes conspicuously against this trend, however: 2008 was Monta's worst three-point shooting year at a putrid 23.1%. Sure, he only attempted 52 three-pointers out of 1227 total shots, good for 4.23% of his attempts, so the sample size is less significant than in other seasons.

Monta shot a much more respectable 36.1% from three last season. A whopping 379 out of his total 1611 shot attempts were from three-point range, or 23.5% of his shots. The previous season, 2010, saw Monta shoot 33.8% on 228 three-point attempts (16% of his 1406 total), which is of course worse, but 34% is better than 2008's 23%.

So, to recap: Monta shot very poorly from three-point land in 2008 but had his most overall efficient season to date, while in recent years he's vastly improved his efficiency from long range but his 2FG% and overall efficiency stats have suffered dramatically.

The painfully obvious position I've been laboring to take up is that, despite improvements in three-point shooting, Monta needs to take less shots from long range. The more shots he takes from distance, the less shots he takes from higher-percentage close range off of drives and cuts. Surely his improved marksmanship has emboldened him to shoot more threes, and it's nice to have a shooting guard with range, but if comparisons to 2008 are worth anything — and maybe they're not — this aspect of his game has hurt the rest of it. He even averaged 3x more offensive rebounds in 2008 (1.6/36m) than in 2011 (.5/36m), likely because of his relative proximity to the bucket.

So, why did I pick just this one area of Monta's game to look at, aside from the fact that numbers kinda bore me? Because it's something specific that can, in theory, be fixed. Yes, lowering his usage rate would probably also help some, but as many have pointed out, once a player thinks of himself as The Man, it might be hard to convince him otherwise. His individual defense will likely always be terrible, a fact only potentially mitigated by improved team defense as a whole. He'll likely always be turnover-prone because of his high dribbles and mediocre passing ability.

But shot selection, simply convincing him to limit the number of shots he takes from three-point range, is one thing we can look at that evidently made a difference in 2008, his Gold Standard. And I think he could get back there. The anecdotal stuff? Sure, that could be relevant, too.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Excellent writing

But I disagree, he won’t get back to 2008 form. I know we usually should base things off pre-season, but based on the two pre-season games, Monta is still a chucker. I think once you become a volume shooter, you will always be a volume shooter. Unless Mark Jackson can work miracles. Maybe he can.

by Doctor Kajita on Dec 21, 2011 8:56 AM PST reply actions  

I know we usually should not base things off pre-season

by Doctor Kajita on Dec 21, 2011 8:56 AM PST up reply actions  

My point is that while volume may be a contributing factor, selection is what can be fixed. It’s hard to stop a scorer from taking shots, but he should be taking them off of drives. I think Jackson could incentivize that for him.

Formerly ffgolden.

by ivanbe on Dec 21, 2011 9:10 AM PST up reply actions  

fixed this to be exactly me
bleeding-heart optimists that just aren’t are quite comfortable dumping on the guy.

and happily rec’d

I’m still a believer that Monta can turn it around. The D is not that big of a deal to me, IF (big if) he can cut down on bad shots. All in all, I love having Monta on the team (not convinced swapping him out for a guy like Reggie or Rush would really make that much of a difference in our overall record)

"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 21, 2011 11:03 AM PST reply actions  

The D is not that big of a deal to me,

YOu see, this I just don’t understand.

I’ve actually written several times that there’s some real reason to think that Monta can be a much better offensive player. But how do you ignore D? It’s half the game!

by Ronaldinho on Dec 21, 2011 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

For the record, this post was not intended to obscure the importance of defense, and I probably should have emphasized that caveat.

Formerly ffgolden.

by ivanbe on Dec 21, 2011 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

just like you say

Poor choice of words on my part…maybe “offense is my primary concern with Monta”

The D is not going to change much. I’m willing to overlook it IF his offense gets significantly better. I kinda need to believe that his offense can get so good that it overcomes defensive shortcomings. Alternatively, maybe he does get marginally better under the new coaching regime

"You don't need to be an Adonis to be a good pro player...
…but Lee looks like he’s lived in zero gravity his whole life"
-the Bimbo Coles Experience

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 21, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the hard work and well organized writing on this post...

but

Let’s talk about Monta Ellis

Lets not flog this dead horse again….

by Only In Fairfax on Dec 21, 2011 11:39 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

That’s a pretty unfair remark given that this site often suffers from thoughtful, well-organized, and skillful writing.

I thought he had all elements of what a Fan Post should be. The ones who are guilty of beating a dead horse are the ones who use the same, senseless arguments advocating Monta Ellis’ performance the past couple years.

ivanbe at least pointed out a discrepancy, using reliable statistics, and suggested a solution to how he can maybe return back to 08 form.

So, pretty unfair remark by you, sir.

by Doctor Kajita on Dec 21, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

so…it is a well-thought out dismembering of a horse, rather than just wanton flogging

"You don't need to be an Adonis to be a good pro player...
…but Lee looks like he’s lived in zero gravity his whole life"
-the Bimbo Coles Experience

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 21, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, I went out of my way to compliment his excellent post, but I do have the right to comment that I am tired of this subject matter.

by Only In Fairfax on Dec 21, 2011 12:52 PM PST reply actions  

I appreciate it.

Formerly ffgolden.

by ivanbe on Dec 21, 2011 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, it's called a backhanded compliment.

All kidding aside, I do not disagree with you but it’s also nice that someone provided new fodder to talk about an old subject. Really, as long as Monta is on the team, it will always be a topic of discussion.

by Doctor Kajita on Dec 21, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

why don’t we discuss our other shortcomings? Both sides of the argument are annoying and obnoxious.

by SDtotheBay on Dec 21, 2011 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Awesome, sounds great

Please go ahead and pick a topic, do some research and post the results of your analysis

Thanks!

"You don't need to be an Adonis to be a good pro player...
…but Lee looks like he’s lived in zero gravity his whole life"
-the Bimbo Coles Experience

by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 21, 2011 7:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

how much would a woodmonta monta if a woodmonta could monta wood...

too many 3’s…agree…how to get him to stop? Show an anti-3 point shooting video with the corporate sexual harassment video they are all going to be forced to watch in the next couple days.

by CharlieBellAmnestyGhostHauntsLarryLohan on Dec 22, 2011 12:24 AM PST reply actions  

Another Year... Same Argument

It is humorous, this back and forth between haters and homers. Can we all be realist for one moment. Who could we have that would be clearly better than Monta. And please be serious. No magical 4 team trades that net us an all-star (just cause the salaries work does not mean a team will trade). And please no POTENTIAL talks.

The argument about 08 is silly to me caus we were a much better team then. Also Monta was thrust into the “main man” role and yes his numbers declined. He also had a Moped fiasco which hurt his numbers too.

Monta’s improvement in his game from last year to this year should be added to the mx as well. He has improved his assist numbers and 3 point shooting the last 3 years. He improved his TS%. And he added clutch shots last year which we only saw him do once in 08.

Monta is not a bad player… and until we can realistically come up with a better player this argument will forever rage between the two sides like the hatfields and mccoys until Monta is no longer a Warrior. (and for years to come if he continues to be a contributor)

by shooter1525 on Dec 22, 2011 12:28 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Who could we have that would be clearly better than Monta

At times during the last 2 – 3 years, or most times, it actually helps the team when Monta is not playing, as in, off the court, on the bench, or in street clothes.

Monta is not a bad player

He’s incredibly gifted for the size that he is, but unless he becomes more disciplined offensively and defensively, he might actually be a bad player given his role.

this argument will forever rage between the two sides

I actually don’t see an argument made by the OP for or against Monta, just that Monta could return to 08 form if he made some adjustments in his shot selection.

by Doctor Kajita on Dec 22, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions  

I feel some Monta “hatred” welling up inside! heh heh… Seriously, though, he looked like he was trying to move his feet on defense last game, which represented progress. I’d also like to see him stop chucking, as well.

I'm the soul brotha' like no other!

by Naticus on Dec 22, 2011 4:06 AM PST reply actions  

Don’t forget chucking and not moving his feet on defense.

I'm the soul brotha' like no other!

by Naticus on Dec 23, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions  

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