Would Trading Stephen Curry For Russell Westbrook Make Sense For The Golden State Warriors?
by Nate Parham on Dec 29, 2011 5:33 PM PST
in Rumors
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PrintAfter Oklahoma City Thunder teammates Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook got in a small disagreement during a 98-95 victory over the Memphis Grizzlies last night, the talk about the young stars simply not being able to co-exist was taken to another level.
While Oklahoma City media and the Twitterverse talked about the need to trade Westbrook - which, of course, is nothing new - ESPN's J.A. Adande has proposed an exchange involving the Golden State Warriors: Westbrook for Stephen Curry.
I didn’t see anyone mention the best idea: to Golden State for Stephen Curry...From Golden State’s perspective, Westbrook is a better defender than Curry, and that should count a lot for the new-look Warriors. (Believe it or not, Mark Jackson’s squad is among the top 10 defenses for fewest opponent points allowed so far.) And Westbrook is more likely to cause sprained ankles than suffer as many as Curry has
Adande lays out his thoughts about why the trade would work for the Thunder as well, but before going further there are at least two additional tidbits of information that Adande's article omitted:
- First - in support of Adande's point - there were folks in Oklahoma City who wanted to draft Curry over James Harden in the 2009 NBA Draft. So for those that still wish that had happened, now they can dream about having Curry and Harden while exiling the guy who shouts at Durant! Perfect.
- But second - throwing a monkey wrench into Adande's schemes - is that the Warriors were reportedly reluctant to part ways with Curry in a deal involving former New Orleans Hornets star point guard Chris Paul (who has since become a member of the Los Angeles Clippers and almost single-handedly beat the Warriors in the fourth quarter on opening night) during the lockout-shortened free agent period. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that the Warriors would hesitate to move Curry for Paul and then turn around and move him in a deal involving Westbrook, which makes the whole idea moot.
Since folks around here have already started discussing Adande's proposal (click here and here) we'll leave further analysis of it at that for now. But since we're on the subject of the rumors about the negotiations between the Warriors and the Hornets for Chris Paul, we might as well just throw out an alternative similar to that which the Warriors reportedly posed to the Hornets: Westbrook for Monta Ellis.
Without going on at length, GSoM'er Missing Barry has already pretty much summed up what an Ellis - Westbrook exchange might bring the Warriors: a relatively similar offensive player who is a better defender (and in being longer, possibly a much better defender given the Warriors newfound interest in putting out effort on that side of the court).
But does any of that really make sense for the Warriors? Sure, Westbrook might offer more defensively than Ellis, but that still leaves the team with similar problems defensively. If they're going to trade Ellis, should they hold out for more? Or, after a rather impressive start to the Mark Jackson (career win percentage: 66.66%) era, might it simply be better to stand pat with this unit and see what they can do?
This really isn't even a rumor at this point - it's a topic of discussion that Curry and the Warriors are suddenly entangled in, regardless of how unlikely it is to come to fruition. And honestly, I find the whole "controversy" to be overblown.
Nevertheless, since it's been put out there, we know you have opinions to share and critiques to offer those that believe this trade is the best idea nobody's talking about . So vote in the poll and leave your thoughts in the comments.
For those interested, the Thunder are also playing the Dallas Mavericks on TNT right now, which will probably put a microscope on every single glance Durant and Westbrook make at one another. Check out SB Nation's storystream for updates on the game.
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NO WAY JOSE
The W’s have had their fair share of disgruntled players – there’s no reason they should take on another teams disgruntled player.
The W’s only want gruntled players.
Exactly. Russ' ego issues aren't exactly conducive to building a winning team culture.
by MightyMegalodon on Dec 29, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
totally with u guys. We have a bunch of non head cases which is nice for a change.
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Dec 29, 2011 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed, this one is a big ol "hell naw"
"You don't need to be an Adonis to be a good pro player...
…but Lee looks like he’s lived in zero gravity his whole life"
-the Bimbo Coles Experience
by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 29, 2011 7:46 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly +1000, Imagine the chip on Westbrooks shoulder after being booted from the Thunder and sent here.
by Only In Fairfax on Dec 30, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
or to self-destruct
Think Marbury after he got traded from the T-Wolves. Hard to tell how these young players react to being traded like that. It’s a big risk considering how much money he’ll want (and likely get).
so a guy's got a massive ego
cause he get’s in an argument with a teammate? I think all NBA stars have massive egos that don’t scale.
enough
this used to be “the land of misfit toys” (baron, jackson, harrington, barnes) but there is a culture shift happening. and do we really want westbrook coming here and trying to be the alpha dog? russel drips athleticism but curry’s BB IQ is much higher. Curry plays the game the right way
by No Dice Jim Rice on Dec 29, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
this used to be "the land of misfit toys" (baron, jackson, harrington, barnes)
which you do know was the last group to get us into the playoffs?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 29, 2011 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
after the playoff season
is when they began misfit behavior
Not quite. We were able to acquire Baron for expiring garbage in no small part because he had worn out his welcome in NOH. He was disgruntled and wanted out. Jax was included in the deal from Indy (as something of an afterthought to most — there was much discussion of Harrington, much, much less about Jax when the deal came down) because they wanted him out after his gun incident. Jax never lasted anywhere more more than a couple of seasons before. He wore out his welcome everywhere he went.
Baron had actually been causing problems in GS the year before we made the playoffs, as well.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
Yep, Cant wait to see how he "acts" with that crew in NY.
It is his last of many last chances.
by Only In Fairfax on Dec 30, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
if, if, if...maybe.
The Warriors would be stupid to not listen to someone who was willing to part with Westbrook. If its that bad in OKC, maybe they could get more than just Westbrook, and if the Warrior maybe know something more about Curry’s ankle, then…maybe.
by felix botticelli on Dec 30, 2011 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
oh i know. but what happened after. we saw their true colors. baron caused problems in Charlotte which is why they go rid of him and he was starting to cause problems here. Same with jackson. that dude totally dissed all of us fans and caused so much turmoil in our lockeroom (which he also did afterwards in Charlotte). the “we believe” season was lightning in a bottle.
by No Dice Jim Rice on Dec 30, 2011 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
This is kinda off topic but do you guys think...
The way that we are playing and winning games against tough opponents that Howard would rethink and try to be traded here. That would take us a long way and definitely wouLd make us a title contender. What do you guys think? I know it’s early but were on top of the division!!!
by americaneagle510 on Dec 31, 2011 9:36 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
it’s a start. yes we got a totally revamped front office and coaching staff. Chandler was a good example though of Free Agents and their thoughts of coming here. Until the team can show their play is translating on the rise and that all the pieces on the court, behind the bench and in the office are moving in a direction that they can believe is worth making the investment as a player for. if these first few games are any indication and it can be sustained and developed, they are on their way to repairing their image and being able to start becoming attractive to good players.
by dannyschmanny on Dec 31, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
totally agreed. on top of that, he is an awful point guard. he would be a really solid 2 guard but i’ve never seen anything in his game that would suggest he would ever really grow into a good floor general.
by dannyschmanny on Dec 31, 2011 1:50 PM PST up reply actions
The exact opposite players.
Curry has the shooting touch, basketball IQ and passing abilities. Westbrook has pure athleticism and can defend point guards in the league. He pretty much plays the way Monta already does when it comes to offense. I’d only do this if we know that Westbrook will be a facilitator. Other than that, Curry helps us spread the floor so easily. The biggest problem I’d see here is Westbrook’s contract, if he makes the an all-nba team again this year, he’ll be a beneficiary of the derrick rose rule. I’d rather pay Curry 9-12 million a year than Westbrook 12-16 million a year.
The only positive I see out of this would be better defense. Only way i’d pull the trigger is if we know Curry is going to be injury prone again all season.
I largely agree.
This doesn’t seem like a very attractive trade for either side. The Thunder get a PR boost and some hoops IQ, we get a better defender, and neither team is greatly improved. Assuming the ankle is OK going forward, I don’t like the idea of trading Curry unless it’s a major, “win now” shift in philosophy.
Big Baby Jesus 2012
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 29, 2011 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
I agree they are opposite players, but we are on opposite sides for most of the rest. LOL.
I think Westbrook is smarter than Curry and better passer while Curry is more a thug and combo guard. Curry just zones out at times. You’re right about Westbrook’s athleticism and defense though. As for the money, I would pay to pair Westy with Monta and Klay. While Curry’s injury is not chronic, it is a concern, so it’s better to trade him once he gets healthy if we can get Westbrook. Wow.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Curry a thug?
first for everything I guess. I’m not drinking the Ciurry Kool-aid yet but I could not think of a less thug like player in the league.
"If God made us in his image then he must be dumb too, and a little ugly on the side."
Frank Zappa
Ok, I didn't mean "thug" thug. I meant his image as the Babyfaced Assassin. OTOH Westbrook is "Cat."
LOL. Curry definitely has the more cool image than Russell “Cat” Westbrook, as in “cat” quick and "cat"alyst, who is kinda boring in that regard.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
I get what you're saying
But I don’t know if smarter would be the thing. I just would want to know westbrook’s career without playing next to durant, ibaka, harder, thabo etc. For a guy who averaged almost 4 turnovers a game while shooting a 33% best from 3 point range (both last season averages). Also if we have Westbrook, Monta, Dorell, Lee, Biedrins. The paint would be highly clogged because that’s where 4/5 of the players dominate.
Westbroook flourished in his 3rd year as an NBA point guard, and i believe he’s played point guard his entire career. As for Curry, that’s a bit of a different story. I really believe that curry has better skills and perhaps a better basketball IQ than westbrook. I want to see what curry has to offer this year. As a kid who played with a whole bunch of d-leaguers his first year and then having this past year to gel in with a solidfied team, he’s still improving. As for Westbrook, he’s playing with an elite team. It really does help his scenario.
As far as the injury thing, I pray that it’s not gonna be consistent.
by seven72deuce on Dec 30, 2011 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
I like Westbrook for his athleticism, assists, rebounds, and steals. He gets to the line a lot and makes them (improved).
Curry will always be a better shooter in terms of FG%, 3s, and FT%. He is very consistent, but is more a combo guard. I am still waiting for him to turn into Steve Nash. Westbrook is a distributor PG and would form a speed tandem with Monta. The Warriors have other outside shooters such as Dorell, Lee, Klay, and even Monta, so if a guy can penetrate and dish or play pick and roll, then they will be better. That kind of game has not been Curry’s strength so far. He seems better suited for run and gun and a perimeter offense. Curry is a good passer, but it appears he looks for his shot, too. Westbrook can play transition or a half-court offense better than Curry.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
The penetration..
comes from Monta. The problem with westbrook is that he defintely tries to find his own shot, from anywhere from the floor, hence his percentages. He does get to the line because he penetrates The reason why he has those assists is because he has KD and bigs to dish off to. Monta is showing those flashes of driving and dishing off. Monta, Lee and Biedrins best games are going to the rim, that’s what i mean by a clogged middle. Curry helps spread out the floor for monta. I’m not sure if Westbrook does. Curry gets the same amount of steals as Westbrook, averages less than 1 rebound per game. But the stats are just a small story. My biggest thing is that do we want westbrook running our offense with the people we have right now. He’d end up being our #1 option if he lands here (atleast it would look like it). I find it weird that you mention that curry is more suited for run and gun when Westbrook is way more athletic. I honestly thing that us trading for curry would still give us the same value as of right now. And I think curry still has more room for improvement over westbrook.
by seven72deuce on Dec 30, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
Forgot to mention...
As for clogging the paint, we do not have big guys starting, so it is okay to have a PG or SG penetrate. OKC is huge up front, so they end up clogging the paint with Westbrook and they only have two perimeter shooters in Durant and Harden. Curry would be a nice addition and another weapon from the perimeter and to play pick and roll at times with Durant or Ibaka.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
ill do it if we get perk for biedrins
and harden for dorell
doesn’t matter anywhere, I don’t either team is interested. J.A. Adande just having some fun in the rumor mill
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
I was going to complain that JA Adande made our front page, but then I see I did as well. I can live with that. ;)
I was going to complain that JA Adande made our front page
for me, its not so much he made the first page, but why. there’s nothing anywhere that validates this rumor, so why even discuss it?
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Don't you know
that’s half the fun of the rumor mill?
Sadly, you know people don’t pay attention to the Warriors when Adande, a national basketball columnist, still thinks Steph is best as 2 guard because of what he did at Davidson. :smh:
Hey MB
Where are you on the front page? I’m not seeing anything (on my phone though
"You don't need to be an Adonis to be a good pro player...
…but Lee looks like he’s lived in zero gravity his whole life"
-the Bimbo Coles Experience
by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 29, 2011 9:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Without going on at length, GSoM’er Missing Barry has already pretty much summed up what an Ellis – Westbrook exchange might bring the Warriors: a relatively similar offensive player who is a better defender (and in being longer, possibly a much better defender given the Warriors newfound interest in putting out effort on that side of the court).
!!
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
I would do Westbrook for Monta in a Heartbeat
not Curry. God, I hate espn so much, always spouting nonsense.
r u kidding me??
Monta is so much greater then westbrook…that is retarded lmao
greater at shooting…slashing..and commits less turnovers..
westbrrok needs a usage rate of 31% to get those inflated numbers of his..
As opposed to Monta’s low usage rate, efficient shooting, and non-turnovers?
21.5 points per 36, 5.0 assists per 36, 2.8 turnovers per 36, 53.6% TS%, 28.1% USG%
22.7 points per 36, 8.5 assists per 36, 4.0 turnovers per 36, 53.8% TS%, 31.6% USG%
Of course, all USG% is is shots and turnovers, so it doesn’t really tell us anything particularly meaningful at the end of those lines. Anyways, the points is, they’re very, very similar offensive players.
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
but tbh montas shooting ability is far more superior then westbrooks which puts him over the top, it was Kieth Smart that screwed up montas stats lol
I agree Monta’s a better shooter. I don’t necessarily agree that matters, though, as shooting ability only matters in how it affects production, and I’m not necessarily ready to blame his numbers on Keith Smart, either…
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
I don;t quite understand the point of a Monta-Westbrook backcourt.
Unless you are making one of the a 6th man.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
Then
A Monta for Westbrook trade seems like a lateral move to me.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
by Badly Browned on Dec 29, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions
the reason I like that trade is that Westbrook is a more prolific passer than Monta, as well as being much bigger. Not just longer, but more built. He’s essentially the ideal case of Monta Ellis.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
Wouldn’t trade Curry for him. Kind of like Curry too much to do that.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
That’s true.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
Not sure that’s fair. Dude does rack up a lot of assists. And shooting too much doesn’t exactly = crappy player…
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
He definitely needs to improve his decisionmaking, completely agree there…
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
If Curry's ankle issue becomes chronic than yes; only if.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
Absolutely not
Westbrook is a super athlete but very flawed
If Monta and curry can get along, so can those two
by JustSomeName on Dec 29, 2011 7:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Monta and Westbrook are way too similar as players for them to be playing with eachother and expecting it to succeed. At least with Monta and curry, ones a driver and ones a shooter.
by JustSomeName on Dec 29, 2011 7:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Agreed.
Broscience investigator.
by HOLDEMUPGoldenStateOfOppression on Dec 29, 2011 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
one or the other
most of us can agree that the monta/curry backcourt will not get us as far as we want in the playoffs, if the playoffs at all.
we have to start making changes somehow. westbrook is still considered a top tier player with worlds of talent on both offensively and defensively.
I say do a deal with one or the other. as long as they take beans with them.
i would prefer to trade monta but if we have to give up steph im fine with it.
If this team commits to defense
And Monta can distribute better, (i.e. less forced shots, more magic like last nights 4th quarter), then I will kindly disagree. Big ifs, I know. But if these first three games are any indication, the players (including Monta) have bought in. Hopefully they can sustain this newfound commitment to real basketball.
you can commit to defense all you want
it doesn’t change the fact that monta can’t guard 2s.
if these first three games are any indication, the players (including Monta) have bought in.
i still haven’t seen monta play good defense, i’ve only seen others cover for him.
his lateral quickness isn't just going to jump
because he decides he wants to play defense
that's what Mark Jackson wants
He has been talking about team defense, not one on one defense. There is no I in a team.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Dec 29, 2011 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I say do a deal with one or the other. as long as they take beans with them.
Beans are good for you, send them red meat instead.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 29, 2011 7:55 PM PST reply actions
Curry for Westbrook, No. Curry for KD, yes.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Dec 29, 2011 8:43 PM PST reply actions
I would be open to Monta-for-Westbrook, but I don't see it as a major upgrade.
Everybody’s talking about Westbrook being a defensive upgrade over Curry, and it’s not remotely clear that’s the case. Westbrook is not a good defender.
I’m really not particularly interested in Westbrook. I understand why OKC wants Curry – it’d be great to have Curry on the wing for KD to dump off to on the double team, offensively he’s probably the ideal player inthe league for that.
But I’m not excited by Westbrook in any way. He’s a slight-better-distributing version of Monta.
He’s a slight-better-distributing version of Monta.
But also younger, longer, and even more athletic….
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
Suprised at the
sticking up of the nose at the idea of Westbrook. The fact that Curry has had bum ankles already should make this a no-brainer, but even a healthy Curry wouldn’t make this decision too hard. Westbrook is an All-Star, and a better fit, for the short and long term, than Curry. The fact is OKC would be stupid to do the deal, and I don’t think they will. I think the Warriors would do it in a heart beat. Westbrook is capable of dominating his position at both ends of the floor.
What makes Westbrook a better fit, exactly?
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 9:48 PM PST up reply actions
he's both a better player
and a better fit. Both have completely different games, but Westbrook to me will always be the most impactful because he is explosive, has great size for a PG and can score just as well, or better, than Curry. Throw in Curry’s ankle problem, his SG skills with a PG’s body, and Westbrook clearly fits the Warriors new culture.
Westbrook is better than Curry, just as Paul is.
Westbrook scored a bit more than Curry (total and per minute) last year, but he didn’t score “just as well” and almost certainly not better. Westbrook took more shots. He wasn’t nearly as efficient. This is important because there are not an unlimited number of shots. Failing to consider it when declaring someone the ‘better" scorer makes the comparison meaningless. Given that they’re both similarly able to score at reasonably high volumes, Curry’s advantage in efficiency gives him an edge as a scorer.
by jae on Dec 30, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Curry is a much, much better scorer than Westbrook. Frankly, it’s not close. I also completely disagree with your characterization of Curry as a SG with a PG’s body.
As for “fit”, I don’t see how Westbrook is a better fit, because he clones what Monta already brings to our team. I don’t see those two as being complementary offensive players at all – rather, they’re more like Melo/Amare in the sense that they’ll take away opportunities from each other. Westbrook is basically worthless offensively without the ball, and while Monta has nice off ball skills, I’m not sure Westbrook is capable of getting him the ball where he needs it. Vision and anticipation when it comes to passing aren’t exactly Westbrook’s thing. He racks up a lot of assists, which is nice, but it’s pretty much solely because he’s so quick he can consistently beat his man, draw the help, and dish it out. Different styles for creating, and the latter doesn’t suit Monta’s game as much.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
A team built around a Westbrook/Monta core would perform quite similarly to the current incarnation of NYK. They’d blow some teams out when both of them were “on,” but for the most part it would be a weird mishmash of ill advised 20 foot jumpers, unforced errors, poor ball movement, and highlight reel dunks. All leading to…not the playoffs.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
by Supafishal on Dec 30, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Yep that’s kind of what I’m envisioning, too.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
huh?? Curry was at CP3 deal level and now you saying Westbrook >> Curry???
Westbrook is good, but not as good as Curry nor CP3.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Dec 29, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
not saying i’d do this trade, but getting westbrook, we can guarantee he’ll be here long term since he’ll be a RFA after his rookie contract, whereas with CP3, there was no guarantee he’d stay even through next season
by JustSomeName on Dec 30, 2011 12:27 AM PST up reply actions
The fact is OKC would be stupid to do the deal, and I don’t think they will.
remember this is not the real world, this is fantasy discussions
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 29, 2011 9:48 PM PST reply actions
I agree
I’m frankly surprised at how little respect Wesbrook’s game is getting around here.
Over
by cybermaldonado on Dec 30, 2011 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
Really? Why? He is essentially a carbon copy of Monta Ellis. Given that we already have a Monta Ellis, why would anyone want another one?
This brings up an interesting think piece, though: how many players in the league would you take more than one of on your team?
I’ll start a list:
Lebron
Paul
Wade
Durant
…
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
carbon copy of Ellis?
they play different positions, Westbrook is an excellent defender, can dominate at both ends of the floor
They play different positions, yes, but they’re almost the exact same size with close to the same offensive game.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
I also disagree with the “dominate at both ends of the floor” part. I think Westbrook’s defense is solid, but frankly, I don’t think any PG can dominate defensively. It’s simply a position with a low ceiling when it comes to defensive impact, because they’re the shortest guys on the floor. A PG can only do so much in help D, owning the paint, rebounding, etc.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
The data at 82games.com suggests that Westbrook is not better at defending PGs than Curry.
At the very least, it’s a mixed bag. Curry’s opponents shoot .031 worse EFG, but end up with one extra FT, almost two more assists, and one more turnover per 48. (Westbrook is much more capable of defending two-guards than Curry, but that’s not much of an issue, IMHO).
And, of course, all the peripherals in that data – the challenges of comparing across teams – argue further in favor of Curry. (eg, Westbrook played with quite good help defense behind him last season, on a team which had a functioning team defense. Curry didn’t).
RAPM puts Curry at .2 defensively and Westbrook at -.5 (minus is bad). (For the record, Rondo is +.7). I know you cited another +/ number that liked Westbrook more than that, MB, but the statistical argument looks like an uphill climb for Westbrook.
Not claiming it’s conclusive, but I’ve never looked at Westbrook and said, “Wow, that guy’s a good defender,” so I’m having a bit of a hard time understanding why everybody is taking it as a given that he’s a better defender than Curry.
I mean, I know he LOOKS like he should be a better defender. He’s strong, long, and athletic and plays with a bit of an attitude. But I’m at a bit of a loss to understand what else he has going for him.
by Ronaldinho on Dec 30, 2011 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What RAPM number is this you’re citing?
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I’m using that, too, and seeing different numbers…
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
Which subset are you using?
Ah. Shoot. I might be wrong there. I clicked on the 2011 link – assuming it meant 2010-11. But since Curry doesn’t appear int he 2009 data, I must have that wrong.
It’s a really really annoyingly-designed site.
My bad.
just to be clear - both the RAPM numbers for Curry and Westbrook are negative.
The board parses minuses as strikethroughts.
how many players in the league would you take more than one of on your team?
probably enough to make a complete roster?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 30, 2011 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Um, what? I meant specific players. As in, I would be very happy trotting out a backcourt of Chris Paul at PG, and Chris Paul at SG. Or Lebron at the 2, 3, and 4. I wouldn’t want more than one Dirk, though.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Um, what? I meant specific players
haha, sorry, I thought it said who would I take more than one on my team.
The correct answer would be who is the very best at each position and is he the very best at more than one position? Probably comes down to whether Lebron could beat out Durant at SF and everyone else at PF then he might get 2 spots? I’d go with CP3 at point, Wade at 2 , and DHo at C.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 30, 2011 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Give me 5 Dirks and I’ll show you a championship team!
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Seriously, it would be impossible to stop.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
it would be impossible to stop.
laughing?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 30, 2011 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
5 Durants would be better on both ends of the floor
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
and 5 Lebrons would destroy your Deutschland Uber Alles squad
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Eh….maybe. Lebron certainly poses a serious matchup problem for Dirk. My Dirk’s strategy would be to pack the key on D and make Lebron take outside shots, and then come down on offense and take a lot of outside shots. Dirk’s shooting vs. Lebron’s shooting. I like my chances.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
I dunno, defensively, I agree, but offensively, I think the Dirk’s would play smarter basketball.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
He really can’t dribble at all, though. So unless he/they were playing a team of guys that they could play “keep away” from and never put the ball on the floor, it’d be pretty tough on him/them/it.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Dirk? Dirk can definitely dribble! Not worried about that.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
Lebron
Paul
Wade
Durant
No love for the Dwight Howard twins? I think I’d take DH12x2 before any of those sets of twins. The LeBrons are close, but I worry that they might be a bit ball-dominant. The Howard twins give you 12 fouls, 100% of your C minutes and another 50% of your PF minutes. I think it’d be a pretty simple matter to fill out a championship-contending roster on that foundation.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 30, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rondo would be a better fit here, yes, but better all around player? westbrook
by JustSomeName on Dec 30, 2011 12:26 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not so sure Westbrook is better all around. I look at them as fairly similar overall, and I could see a case for either being better.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Considering that Rondo is the greatly superior defender, I’d probably say he’s the better all around player. Genuinely great distributor. All Westbrook has on him is scoring, and it’s not like he’s great at that.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:38 AM PST up reply actions
I'd trade Westbrook for Curry
Not sold on Curry yet. Far to inconsistent, not always the smartest passer, defense is probably the worst in the team.
by Coldlampin on Dec 29, 2011 10:09 PM PST via mobile reply actions
If we can trade Curry for CP3, why trade Curry for Westbrook??
Curry’s value is higher than Westbrook. Let’s trade Curry for KD.
by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Dec 29, 2011 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Curry’s value is higher than Westbrook. Let’s trade Curry for KD.
Inch for inch CP3 is a better player than LeBron so we should be able to trade Curry for Lebron since we rejected a Curry for CP3 deal ?
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 29, 2011 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
Curry’s value is higher than Westbrook.
How do we know this?
by Missing Barry on Dec 29, 2011 10:26 PM PST up reply actions
How do we know this?
the kool-aid of course. Take a big swig Barry
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 29, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
I think there's an argument to be made.
And it’s carried mostly by team control for the next two years.
But I don’t think anyone here can make a valid knowledge claim.
by Spider Jerusalem on Dec 30, 2011 6:38 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, and what’s funny to me is the point I keep coming back to – I’m seeing people arguing that Monta has more trade value than Harden and Curry more than Westbrook, and it seems to me that any logic that Monta > Harden supports Westbrook > Curry and vice versa….
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Do you really think ok'd would trade kd for Steph?
If so, I have an igloo in Alaska I’d like to sell you
Our roster is fine and dandy right now
thank you very much!
Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........
mykelala01 is like the bouncer with the red rope for GSOM. You’re good to come in now.
by TheSoundOfHockey on Apr 24, 2011 9:24 PM PDT
uh, nope. Not that I think this trade really helps us, but this roster isn’t getting us anywhere.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
The Chris Paul deal has nothing to do with any Westbrook deal whatsoever. Paul wanted absolutely nothing to do with Golden State, which made management rightfully unwilling to trade Curry.
Over
by cybermaldonado on Dec 30, 2011 12:06 AM PST reply actions
Makes sense for OKC, Terrible for us..
Steph is going to have a HUGE year and is no where near his ceiling…Warriors have to just kill all trade talk and worry about extending his contract in 2 years…If management trades Curry, I’m done with the franchise.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 12:17 AM PST reply actions
how does curry have a higher ceiling? they’re both the same age
by JustSomeName on Dec 30, 2011 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
'i am extremely high on Curry for a variety of reasons..
First, his I.Q, court vision, and shooting are off the charts. He also carries a great attitude and is very coachable..he asks what is needed from him and has the ability to change his game to what is needed by the team (i.e avg 28 ppg in college and playing the iverson role or moving to pg in the NBA and deferring to Monta but getting others involved). You will also never see Curry get into on the sidelines with one of his own teammates.
I believe Curry has more development potential than Westbrook and a lot of that has to do with Curry adding weight and getting stronger physically. Westbrook is a complete product physically. He is what he is (a super athletic, strong guard..again, very very athletic). I believe Curry has a long way to go in terms of adding weight/strength and physical development. As a skinny guard, he has been able to prosper in the NBA. I want to see the heights he can take his game once his physical development is completely done. He already has bulked up a little bit and I think that will pay huge dividends.
Many compare Curry to Nash which I think is a little unfair, BUT i do believe that Curry’s “career arch” cah be very similar to Nash. If you remember, it took Nash a few years in the league to figure things out and grow but then he busted through as the best pg in the league and 2 time MVP. I think Curry will have a similar “bust-out” moment but I’m not saying he will be a 2 time MVP but he could contend for the best pg in the league position at some point.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with some points, disagree with others.
First, his I.Q, court vision, and shooting are off the charts. He also carries a great attitude and is very coachable..he asks what is needed from him and has the ability to change his game to what is needed by the team
Definitely agree. The one caveat I would add, however, is that Curry’s biggest weakness is defense, and I don’t see him ever being anything but a weakness there.
I believe Curry has more development potential than Westbrook and a lot of that has to do with Curry adding weight and getting stronger physically. Westbrook is a complete product physically. He is what he is (a super athletic, strong guard..again, very very athletic). I believe Curry has a long way to go in terms of adding weight/strength and physical development.
This is where I strongly disagree. First, Westbrook is younger than Curry (less than a year younger), so I don’t think it’s wise to expect physical development from one guy but not the other. Second, they’re both 23 anyways, I don’t think there’s much room left for physical development for either of them. How many 23-25 year olds completely change themselves physically? I can think of older guys that put on more muscle as they aged, but they also got slower/less athletic. Even without losing a step from age, bulking up will make Curry slower/less athletic. I’m not necessarily sure that’s a positive tradeoff. What I think IS realistic for guys to improve on, though, are their actual skills, and the mental part of the game. Both of those Westbrook has more room to grow. From that standpoint I would actually say Westbrook has a much higher ceiling…but he has to have the right attitude. If he works hard on his game and has a team-first attitude, he can achieve things Curry’s just not capable of. Not sure that’s a good assumption to make, though.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
If management trades Curry, I’m done with the franchise.
at least there is an upside
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 30, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I say the only reason to trade monta for westbrook
is because westbrook is a more attractive trade chip and can probably net you a good wing player. No way in hell Curry for Westbrook.
Monta for Westbrook and then Westbrook + Klay + Others for Howard?
Before people figure out how bad klay is…
My main issue with Westbrook is that he looks like a lizardman.
by Spider Jerusalem on Dec 30, 2011 6:40 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Since Westbrook and Durant aren't working out
And since this is not even a rumor, but just a trade idea anyway.
Why dont they ship out Durant and build around Westbrook? We’d offer Curry or Monta and tons of bigs and shooters too.
by WestCoastWarrior on Dec 30, 2011 8:18 AM PST reply actions
They are never gonna trade KD.
Lol NEVER
by gswarriors12 on Dec 30, 2011 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
Anybody who trades away KD does not belong in the NBA. Unless you’re getting a superstar and pieces.
So....
Your saying Monta plus pieces isnt that package?
by WestCoastWarrior on Dec 30, 2011 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
The only reason you’d trade KD is if he is fed up with your franchise. If that happens, you could probably talk a pretty good team to give them a superstarish player. Monta is not superstarish. Like a KD-Deron Williams swap is the kind of thing that could possibly happen if KD was fed up with the Thunder.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:42 AM PST up reply actions
At the end of the season,
a sign of trade of Westbrook and Ibaka for Extend and trade of Curry and David Lee.
Chris Petersen is in the dictionary next to the word AWESOME.
by warriorsscore110 on Dec 30, 2011 8:43 AM PST reply actions
ewww..
don’t understand the logic of people wanting to trade Curry…the guy is remarkable..especially for a russel westbrook that is a shooting guard disguised in a point guards body….Curry’s passing ability is legit…am I the only one enamored by 21 pts, 10 assists, 7 boards, and 6 steals on a bum ankle? His game is so controlled and just smart. He will only get better. Don’t understand how people are so easily willing to give him up.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 9:13 AM PST up reply actions
I had a dream last night that a three team trade went down between OKC, Boston, and Orlando. Along with some fillers, it went…
Westbrook to Orlando
Howard to Boston
Rondo to OKC (they also get the Championship, in this trade)
This trade also makes sense because it once again allows Orlando to make a really dumb franchise crippling move, in keeping with their general strategy.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I think it is way too light...
Hornets balked at a Rondo package for CP3…Westbrook is not nearly enough for Howard….especially after seeing what Hornets got for a CP3…they are essentially in the same contract situation but CP3 promised to opt in for only one more guaranteed year…so the price will still be astronomical…If you are Orlando, do you trade Durant for a extended Dwight? I don’t think OKC would ever do it but it’s probably the fairest trade in terms of value4value for Orlando.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
srry, meant to say, if you are OKC
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t think Orlando is going to get value for Dwight. I think they will be forced into making a desperation move like this one. In the end it wouldn’t be horrible, given Russel’s contract. If they could somehow net some draft picks as well, they’d probably feel pretty good about themselves.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
without giving up Durant,
I think OKC would have to send Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka and a draft pick and probably take back a bad contract like Jameer/Hedo to get it done…..I still think teams will be willing to give up value especially if they can get a verbal commitment from D12 that he will extend…someone might get desperate as the deadline approaches.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
for instance..
take the Knicks…they might put it all together and be legit to make a deep playoff run, but what if they are pretty bad and look like complete pretenders…they could make the decision to send Amare/Chandler/Fields and/or a draft pick to Orlando for Howard/Hedo/filler…..they could potentially team up Melo and Dwight and then make a run for Deron this summer…sounds pretty far fetched but it is one of the possible scenarios where Orlando should wait till the deadline approaches to see what opportunities open up.
by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 30, 2011 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
If I’m the Magic and my sole goal is to build a championship contender, honestly, I think I’d rather let Dwight walk than take a weak package centered around someone like Westbrook. Take a chance that Dwight resigns, and if not, well, at least now you’re in a position to rebuild the right way. If you end up with Westbrook, he’s not good enough to ever make you legit, and you’ll never be bad enough to get someone who is through the draft.
by Missing Barry on Dec 30, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
Aren't we also.....
failing to mention that Curry OWNS Westbrook when they match up. I remember last year watching Curry embarrass Westbrook and thinking Westbrook was gonna cry with that ugly look he makes when he’s pissed. I don’t know if anyone else here remembers last year, but for some reason Steph has Russel’s number bigtime.
Curry OWNS Westbrook when they match up
Match-ups are a meaningless measure of skill/ability when comparing two players unless you’re in a 7-game playoff series.
by Doctor Kajita on Dec 30, 2011 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Westbrook better than Curry???
I don’t agree with that. Westbrook may be more athletic and a better defender but I don’t think he’s better than Curry. Curry is a better shooter and has a higher basketball IQ. Westbrook is inconsistent too. They have completely different styles. I think Curry is gonna blow up this season… IF he can stay healthy.
by bstallion510 on Dec 30, 2011 9:51 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I'd trade Monta for him.
Only if we package Westbrook, Klay, and other fillers (even Lee if we have to) for Dwight or some other wing/big. Maybe even Westbrook for Pau/Bynum? I could see the Lakers doin that wit Pau, prob not with Bynum though.
NO NO NO
I wouldn’t trade Curry nor Monta.. Curry has the potential to become an all around point guard, rather than just a shoot first guard which Westbrook is. Also, pairing him with Monta would mean two high volume shooters. Pairing him with Steph would leave us with two good point guards, and we’d end up like lob city playing a point guard at the 2 (except billups can defend 2’s) Westbrook is bigger than Steph but there is no way i can justify swapping their talent just for a bit more size.
And in all honesty, I think Westbrook is overrated. You can thank KD for that.
keep em both.
The funny thing is that I think KD could be much, much better with a PG like Rondo (or Curry, for that matter), whereas Westbrook would probably be exposed for who is (a tremendously athletic ballhog without good court vision) if he were placed on a team where he was the focal point.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
I think Westbrook would be one of those guys who hangs around bad teams, makes them okay, but never really goes deep. Probably scores more than 20k points and finishes top 10 all time in assists, but has no legit team accomplishments. If he’s still on OKC, he probably gets rings.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
Delusional
Haha, his thread is hilarious. I get a crack out of how people think Curry is the 2nd coming. One guy even says he’ll quit following the wariros if they make a trade like this, which the warriors won’t. Curry is not proven yet, has the potential, but lacks defense and consistent passing. If the ankle never heals, then he’ll be a flash in the frying pan like so many greats before him.
by Coldlampin on Dec 30, 2011 11:32 AM PST via mobile reply actions
If the ankle never heals, then he’ll be a flash in the frying pan like so many greats before him.
Thats the warrior conundrum. If we keep him the ankle will never heal. If we trade him, not only will the ankle heal, but he will instantly be a perennial All Star as well. Oh, and I totally agree, this thread is hilarious!
by WestCoastWarrior on Dec 30, 2011 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
true
I don’t think of Curry as the 2nd coming, but I’m not about to let him get traded for Westbrook, I’ll take his potential over what Westbrook is. Now the ankle is a concern, but then the Thunder wouldn’t trade for an injured Curry…
And I guess I should have read your post thoroughly as I said the same as the other fan about the team (if they made this specific trade).
I am curious, what would you think about the team if this (never ever gonna happen) trade happens?
How is Westbrook more proven than Curry?
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
I don't
understand why this is on the front page, this should be a fanpost or fanshot or whatever, it pointless discussion, the trade won’t happen, and if it did, I’ll stop rooting for the dubs (the JA trade proposal that is)…
The whole thing is trash, just a trashy idea, and it really has no business on the home page!
sorry
for not understanding, are you saying some squads would do this trade?
But I could care less about those teams, this is Ellis for Westbrook, the current rosters for both the Thunder and Warriors, and would the trade happen, and imho, I don’t think the Warriors would even entertain this idea…
it pointless discussion, the trade won’t happen, and if it did, I’ll stop rooting for the dubs
haha, you should just give it up now, you obviously are not warriors fan material. we’ve endured way worse trades over the years and lived to tell about it.
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 31, 2011 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't trade Curry
That’s our guy.
"I gots ta say the nay no." - Pootie Tang
by Tremendous Hops on Dec 30, 2011 1:19 PM PST reply actions
I think they should trade Curry
for shannon brown
and OKC should trade durant for josh childress
Enough Bitchin' lets do this
Wow
Curry alongside Nash. I know this was meant as a joke, but that would be the most exciting backcourt in… well it doesn’t matter. That would be amazing.
Let’s have fun for one season, why don’t we? We might make the Playoffs with our current roster and we could probably get a hell of a lot more for Monta (or at least someone that fills our needs) but I’m all for this trade if only for all the pure shooting, ball handling, and passing highlights… Heck, Nash could serve as Curry’s mentor until he retires and then be hired as a special assistant from then on out. Do it :)
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=79lo8kv
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
And please
don’t start throwing out trade rumors. This was a joke (it only wasn’t for selfish reasons :P). Unless we get offered a player/package we cannot resist, there’s no point making a trade right now. We’re playing well. We should see how the season starts unfolding before doing anything drastic.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
No I wouldn't
I’d selfishly love it for a season (for highlights and such) but in the long term this trade is not in the best interests of the Warriors.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
I’d have to think long and hard about that. Nash’s age has to catch up with him sometime, right? But man, I thought he’d be a waste of money by age 32, and that’s more like when he fell into his groove. He’s truly the ageless wonder, and possibly the greatest offensive player of his generation.
If it was Nash and a first round pick I’d do it in a heartbeat.
by Uwe Blog on Dec 30, 2011 11:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Nash’s age might for real catch up with him right now.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:49 AM PST up reply actions
that's a tough question
on paper that’s a trade the suns should jump on. in reality Nah IS our offense. Monta would torch Nash one on one, but Nash lead the league in assist on a team with zero all stars last season.
Enough Bitchin' lets do this
Lol.
That would be one of the greatest offensive backcourts of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 30, 2011 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
maybe.
maybe one of the worst defensive backcourts too. And Nash is old and on the decline. Do you want to trade a player like Monta for Nash?
Nash is the kind of guy whose offense so outweighs his defense that you just deal with it. Curry isn’t quite there, but his offense is so great.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 12:50 AM PST up reply actions
Nash isn’t a huge scorer, but he is very efficient. He’s not a low volume guy by any means, unless you’re just looking at this season which is dumb. He got over 11 a game last season despite playing only 33.3 MPG. Last year his offensive RAPM was 6.2. That’s still elite.
It’s not just about the amount of points he puts up when he’s out there or the amount of assists he gets (which is still a ton), but his overall effect on his team’s offense, which is still very very good.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
Nash+Curry would be the true best offensive backcourt in the league if it came to exist.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 31, 2011 5:53 PM PST up reply actions
would it matter if they are the worst
defensive backcourt ever?…
Would they even be the best backcourt? Top 5 even?
What do Warriors fans want? A balanced team (like they’ve been asking for the past calander year, stewing in their disapproval of their “flawed”, undersized and defensively inferior backourt?) or team filled with fantasy basketball studs? Don’t we already have that?
What do Warriors fans want?
I want a team like the Kobe /shaq lakers or the MJ/ Pippen Bulls or the current Miami Lebrons
Mirror on the wall
Here we are again.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 1, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry
must have missed that thread haha
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
lol i believe my sig line awhile back was
“trade for Nash, 120-119 games will be expected”
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 30, 2011 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
people make it sound like Westbrook is trash
compared to Curry. I bet lots of teams would rather have Westbrook than Curry, and the other way around. But by no means is it a crazy proposal. It’s pretty even and fair, and considering the type of team the Dubs are trying to construct, Westbrook makes as much sense as Curry.
Anyone here that
curry will be back and Monta will be out cause his grandmother died.
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