Is This The New (Old) Andris Biedrins? With the Warriors Likely Striking Out in Free Agency, All Eyes Turn to Andris for a Glimmer of Hope
by olympicmike on Dec 9, 2011 11:49 PM PST
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Nene, Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan... Our hopes at upgrading the center position through free agency are drying up before our eyes. The latest reports have the Warriors scraping their pennies together to sign DeAndre Jordan to an offer sheet that will likely be matched by the Clippers, unless of course we completely overpay for him. We aren't the only ones hearing all the rumors involving the future of the center position on this team. Andris Biedrins has been hearing them too. It seems like the harsh reality is starting to set in among Warriors fans, and for the 25 year old Latvian alike, that the team's best chance to improve at the center spot might come from Andris himself. The proof will have to show up on the court, but for the time being a confident, honest, and surprisingly upbeat Andris Biedrins is certainly a good start.
At some point it makes you a little bit stronger, that they start looking for somebody else, and you say "No, no way." I can prove to them that I'm better than those guys they are looking for. Now is my chance. Last two years were horrible for me, and I know that. Everybody knows that.
It's going to take a lot more than good training camp sound bites for Warriors fans to get behind Andris though. His on court production has fallen off a cliff the last two seasons, and his play has been hard to watch at times. Maybe more so for those of us who defended Andris and his $9 mil per year contract from '07 to '09. I still want to see him succeed, but I'm not holding my breath, and Warriors management shouldn't be either. Jump for more video, and check out Marcus Thompson's article on Andris for the CC Times.
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Exactly the type of attitude Andris needs. No more “oh I guess it’s okay if Ekpe starts over me” sissy attitude. The fact that he said “no way I can show I’m better than guys the Warriors are looking for” shows how different he can be. 15 lbs. heavier too, this could be the year he bounces back. (When I look back a year from now at this comment I hope I’m right).
We Believe 2012
by jonathannn on Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM PST reply actions 7 recs
rec'd
because i agree. no more sissy “oh i’ll just try and play” to now “im going to prove em all wrong”
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
I still have my doubts
When I “read his voice”, I don’t get the sense that he’s turned into a new person who’s solved his confidence problems. He sounds about the same to me as last season.
I mean, yeah, he feels good right now, and yeah, he says he wants to prove himself. But he hasn’t been tested yet under the pressures of a real game. All these good feelings he has now can easily go away when he has to face the hack-a-Biedrins and the FT line once again with 20,000 people watching.
Upon hearing the interview tidbit once more, I will give Biedrins credit for emphatically admitting he had confidence issues before. I guess we’ll know for sure after the first few games.
well to me. the part where he admitted and didnt blame people for what he had been through really showed some character.
i know it may or may not translate to his game, but the fact that he acknowledges that single fact means something much more mentally to himself. It shows that he is truly no longer that push over, but more of a man of responsibility. And i think that is huge in a starting player.
with that said, he looks like he wants to fight every center (ok i might be exaggerating). But his demeanor and just overall confidence level has improved. The fact that he spent his offseason by himself working on his own game, gaining 15 lbs without losing speed is truly a dedication to his newly found courage.
what we need to focus on anyways, i think, is to be finding a decent backup center, that incase beans sucks like he has in the past, we can easily transition the backup be it tyler or someone else, and hopefully find a center in the 2012 draft, or FA.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
I guess we’ll know for sure after the first few games.
Will we, though? Remember Game 16 of last season, when he played Marc Gasol and the Grizz to the tune of 28 points (13-15 fg!) and 21 boards? I thought for sure he had broken out of the shell of the previous season, only to watch him, by and by, crawl back into it miserably.
In some ways, that kind of inconsistency — one game on, three games off — is even more maddening than consistently sucking. Assuming he isn’t amnestied, here’s hoping the seemingly improved mental state leads to a much more consistent effort night-in night-out.
On the DJ question: I’m on the fence. I love the idea of the added beef, toughness, size, athleticism, six personal fouls, etc. But suppose the old AB does to some degree return? You only have 96 minutes a game to give to your big men, and — while potential logjams often find ways of easing themselves — playing time could be a real issue.
Lee 36
Udoh 20
DJ 24
Biedrins 16
Is that really enough PT to keep Biedrins, Udoh, and DJ developing and happy? What about Amundson? Or is the plan still to amnesty Biedrins if we sign DJ? Or send Udoh as part of a package in for CP3?
J-RIDAH?
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 10, 2011 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
If i had it my way~
No DJ.
Udoh 36
Tyler 36
Beans 24
Its still a tank (rubs hands greedily thinkin about the next draft) but, we improve trade values and skill levels. Lee and amundson can take a walk. DJ is not going to lead or help us to a championship in 3 years imo
by PIRATEWARRIOR on Dec 10, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
Tyler??? 36???
LMAO -W’s must be desperate as they haven’t been with even 8men in unis
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
with Biedrins, Amundson, Jordan on the same roster
unless one of them shows they can hit >.60 from the foul line, that’s about half of the team’s bigs who can’t be on the floor in crunch time, other than situational subs.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
DJ is the only goal right now for the front office. I just left the dubs practice facility, they want DJ and are trying to gauge what other teams offer will be so they can out bid and get him to sign the offer sheet. If the clippers match then thats more money off of their cap and they are a division rival so its a win/win.
I dont get why some of you dont want DJ, It makes no sense to me. The thought that we can get a better Center to sign here is asinine,asiten,aseleven (skip bayless joke).
Because he's not that good and he will hamstring our cap situation even further !
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
GSC listen to me and listen very good because I need for the dub world to understand this. “CAP SPACE MEANS NOTHING IN A UNDESIRABLE MARKET” Tyson Chandler just showed us that. Certain markets are going to have to overpay for B and C list players and can forget about A list players. If we land DJ then were set at all 5 starting positions and can worry about using our MLE in July to deepen our bench. Thats the best we can hope for in this market. Nene wont even give us a consideration. Give up the dreams of DH and guys of that nature coming here. We can be Memphis-like right now tho if we can get DJ to autograph his name on a contract and LA dont match.
Cap flexibility is useful in trades and to re-sign your own players. It isn’t just for signing free agents.
Deandre Jordan seriously isn’t that good.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
We will have the cap space to re-sign Steph. DJ does not prevent that. Its not alot of good Centers we can anticipate signing. You cant expect this front office to wait around forever. You have to take your shots when they are open. DJ is not a allstar, but the market for starting Centers in this league right now is at a alltime high, you will be amazed with the contracts Hibbert and Javale Mcgee are gonna get when they are free agents. The market is the market. You either get in it or watch the playoffs at home.
by J-RIDAH on Dec 10, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
emphasis on trades, really. Did you see the sign and trade that just happened in NY? They got Tyson Chandler for nothing because they had cap space. Compare to when we got David Lee and had to give up some okay players in the S&T.
DJ is not a allstar, but the market for starting Centers in this league right now is at a alltime high, you will be amazed with the contracts Hibbert and Javale Mcgee are gonna get when they are free agents.
I won’t be surprised by any of that. I know what the market is. The market scares me. I’d rather see if Andris can play for another year than ruin our cap situation by signing Deandre Jordan. Maybe Ekpe Udoh, who is actually a good defender, can handle a larger role.
If this is the market, I’d rather stay out of it.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Amnesty creates cap space, but you’re right. I forgot that they had to amnesty Chauncey. I was thinking that he came off the books, but that wouldn’t happen till next year.
You also have to account for the fact that the other teams who most wanted Tyson (Warriors, Nets) either couldn’t offer him the biggest contract or a great situation. As a Knick, he’s the guaranteed starter. He would also be the guaranteed starter here, but I don’t think they would have offered him the deal that he got. As a Net, he would either have to learn to play with another center in Brook Lopez, or wait for the trade that sends Dwight there, which would kill his role, as he’s essentially a worse version of Dwight Howard.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
I haven’t heard that his mind was made up. I’ve heard that he was expecting to sign with the Warriors or Nets.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Eh. I'm not sure what Tyson just showed.
He accepted more money to go to NY. Whether we could have topped that offer by amnestying Biedrins or not, we chose not to …
Jordan has some serious flaws. As mentioned above, his poor FT shooting is made worse by the fact that two other bigs on the team are already very poor FT shooters. This is a fixable problem however, along with establishing a post game, knowing where to be on defense, and getting good rebound positioning. What can’t be taught is size, athleticism, and youth, assets he has lots of.
Generally, I think the center and point guard positions require more aggressive speculation because there are so few quality players out there. Sure, you’re going to miss more than you hit the mark, but what’s the alternative? They can’t wait around forever, hoping some late lottery pick 2 or 3 years from now will turn into the next Dwight Howard.
Big Baby Jesus 2012
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 10, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
I dont get why some of you dont want DJ, It makes no sense to me.
He’s not as good as you think he is, that’s why.
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
we have one
Udoh
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
Udoh is a PF.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
by Badly Browned on Dec 10, 2011 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
what did he play last season?
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
Not a difference worth noting. Udoh does a better job at defense than Jordan.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
Jordan is a year younger then Udoh.
There are many people in the world younger than Udoh. That doesn’t mean we should start all of them.
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age certainly plays a role
but it’s not a huge one (look at the R^2 on any aging curve you can find, it’s quite low)
experience also plays a role – and that works against Jordan because he has already been in the league 3 full seasons. My guess is he will continue to improve, but there is a fairly wide gulf between him and Udoh right now as far as I can tell. I don’t think simply being one year younger gives us much hope that he will vastly improved.
It’s also an extremely bad move for us if in order to get Jordan we waste our amnesty exception on Bell. I won’t be able to forgive the FO for that mistake.
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Biedrins 16
XD
hater
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Hoping for Deandre
I don’t think they match since they need to sign Blake and Gordon very soon
RIP Al Davis
i dont think dj is going to solve our problems.
it might be too rushed of a judgement to hand out so much money playing for a consistently OK player.
i would seriously go for marc gasol, or try and get into the 3 way deal and try and get pau. but thats dreaming.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
Gasol doesn't run the floor like DeAndre...and in our system the center needs to.
They need to sign DJ, it sucks that the market is such but someone will pay and get a young big man who will thrive in the right system. I hope it’s the Warriors.
"That was very funny about the old man basketball skills. One is lucky to escape injury when playing against those crafty, crusty sumbitches. And it’s just demoralizing when they demonstrate yet again how to use the backboard from range." - Charlie Custer
by SmittytheCutman on Dec 10, 2011 1:34 AM PST up reply actions
Don’t get married to any system that doesn’t break 40 wins. I think a new system is necessary, especially when Marc Gasol would probably be the best player on our team.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If the Warriors got Marc Gasol(which they won’t), they would be fools to run the ball when he’s on the court. If, however, they get Jordan, or no one for that matter, they would be fools not to run the ball. Without a legit post presence, what else can you do?
Big Baby Jesus 2012
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 10, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
They’d be fools to get Deandre Jordan at his price, but I agree that if they get Jordan, they should continue playing uptempo.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
I believe in Andris Biedrins
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 12:36 AM PST reply actions
what's going to happen is that we are going to sign deandre
and then beans is going to revert to his 07-09 form and everyone will wonder why we spent 10M/year on a backup C
thats the problem.
we shouldnt give dj a huge ass contract and see beans come back to form. it will just be a whole nother lee situation.
what we need to do is let beans have a crack at jackson, play until a very good draft class, and if he does do well, we can trade him for even better prizes.
this will be a huge mistake by the FO.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
oh wait i thought u meant 06-07.
sorry.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:42 AM PST up reply actions
hmmm?
beans was better in 07-09 than 06-07
really you might be right 06-08 was a good year definitely.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:46 AM PST up reply actions
per 36 numbers
06-07: 11.8 pts, 11.5 reb, 59.8% TS
07-08: 13.8 pts, 12.9 reb, 63.7% TS
08-09: 14.2 pts, 13.4 reb, 57.8% TS
07-08 was his best year based on RAPM and individual stats.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 1:23 AM PST up reply actions
08/09
was first year without real PG
with Jackson AS ‘point forward’ i’d call it a begginning of collapse
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
His stats were still pretty good, though.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
@ half season he had
allstar numbers
but it all went downhill after that -because W’s were going nowhere
-it’s tough task to play for losing team in good market
-the pressure is there but you still going nowhere
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
If all of the sudden we end up with two decent centers...
…after years of having none, I don’t think you’ll see any of us complaining. Whether we use one as trade bait or just keep them both, it’d be a nice problem to have.
by MightyMegalodon on Dec 10, 2011 7:23 AM PST up reply actions
That’s a high class problem I don’t mind having
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Dec 10, 2011 8:40 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
that would be a good problem to have
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Dec 10, 2011 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
I believe in Biedrens too
I’m not sure what his problem has been, but I’ve always thought he was just one mental leap from coming back to form.
Hopefully having a kid/family, along with the time this past offseason to reflect will be the catalyst
And for all the crap I’ve taken for saying it before, I’ve thought for a while that his game would be much improved if he packed on some additional weight. 15 pounds is no joke, should help him play a bit more solid around the low post
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 10, 2011 7:56 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Some other quotes about Andris from the MTII article
STEPHEN CURRY: "He looked awesome today. He was moving well, physical, changing shots at the basket, rebounding well. It’s only day one and you can see his face. He’s checked in. I think he had a great offseason, in his personal life and getting ready for the season. Nice to see him mobile like he is and being a game-changer for us."
MARK JACKSON: "Watching him, you can see some things, flashes of what made him a special player. Great size, length, the ability to alter shots, rebound the basketball, finish at the rim. A lot of things where you can see he’s a starting center in this league. I really like him. … The bottom line is he’s our only legit center on this basketball team. We’re trying to get better. One way or another, he will play for this team and I’m excited about that."
nice to hear the confirmation that he'll be here from Coach
I think he’ll have a comeback season
The bottom line is he’s our only legit center on this basketball team.
I guess Udoh isn’t playing center.
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
I bet we will see him get some minutes at C
But yeah, udoh strikes me as similar to an Ibaka type player. Not necessarily a center, but definitely solid frontcourt guy.
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 10, 2011 7:59 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I always thing the rule of thumb is -
- that you need three big men who you are comfortable playing major minutes. ANother another big you can run out there for a small number of minutes a game. This is even more important in a compressed season like this one. If Biedrins returns to form, I would aim for:
Lee 30, Biedrins 25, Deandre 25 (that’s a career high, btw), Udoh 15. If at the end of the year you like who both Biedrins and Udoh are, then you have a significant trade chip.
Without a Biedrins return-to-form you’re looking at something like:
Lee 32, Deandre 28, Udoh 28, Biedrins 10.
Lee can play more minutes than that in a normal season, but in this compressed year? Definitely want to avoid playing anyone 35, 36 minutes a game.
I think a lot of people, myself included, have blamed Andris' attitude for his bad play
He could really use help on defense, he could have been the same Andris we used to know if he had had some the past few seasons. That being said, it’s nice that Beans has a much more positive attitude. Avoid signing Deandre Jordan at all costs, lets give Beans another season, I’m sure he can prove us wrong
But what happens if he doesn't?
Then were screwed , we don’t have a pick this year.
Next years center crop:
Dwight (not happening)
Hibbert (RFA , unlikely)
Bynum (team option)
Brook Lopez (RFA)
Turiaf
Okur
McGee (RFA)
The only guys I see as a better fit then Jordan are Dwight, Hibbert, Bynum and McGee. I don’t think we have a chance at any of them, but if we did McGee would be the most plausible but he’s just like Jordan.
LAC has to sign Gordon and Blake so they really shouldn’t overspend on Jordan, so we can get him. The Wizards don’t have that same problem so they can match nearly any offer
RIP Al Davis
Trades are possible
such as the one J-Ridah has brought up for Roy Hibbert
This
I keep seeing rumors about the pacers shopping for a center. It may not really be all that hard to get Hibbert…
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Dec 10, 2011 8:01 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Free agency is the worst way to get a center for a mediocre team.
by Uwe Blog on Dec 10, 2011 10:24 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
The warriors should offer 16+ mil for Brook Lopez.
My dad said this the other day and I totally agree, Brook Lopez plays like a young Tim duncan. A core of Curry, Lopez, Ellis and Lee is a perennial playoff contender.
Plus nj wants to go hard after Howard, so we could sign him. Obviously we would need to amnesty biedrins and go into the luxury tax region. But I’d do it.
To me Howard, Lopez, and Marc Gasol are going to be the 3 best centers for the next 5-10 years.
he needs some help
he cant go at it alone. i think part of the problem was that he thought he had to do it all by himself on defense and that really got to him.
would have been great if we signed a guy like chuck hayes
Haters Gonna Hate
is help worth 10 Million a year?
We can get Dalembert for much cheaper than DJ
i am not a fan of DJ
but would be great to pick someone up to help Biedrins out
Haters Gonna Hate
by Wreckonized on Dec 10, 2011 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
The biggest difference to me in his talk
Is that in year’s past he was the jokester during training camp. He had a “I’m just happy to be here” demeanor. Now he seems like he is all business!
Beidrins – Your Next Warriors ALL STAR!
If we have a fired up Beidrins and a fired up Deandre
Then we could max them both out over two halves – each collecting five fouls a game!
Daring penetrating guards to feel their wrath in the paint!
Showing a defense fire that spreads to all other players on the team!
Getting serious offensive putback highlights!
DeAndris Jordrins! RAAAAH!
$20million Dampfoyle anyone?
Big Baby Jesus 2012
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 10, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
If Biedrins was a free agent on the market right now I think a few teams would pick him up off waivers. He is a Center, and Vladrad actually got a new contract so anything is possible. in hindsight, Chandler not signing here could be a good thing if AB can contribute and raise his trade value.
You think we get
DeAndre JRIDAH? And i assume to get him we would amnesty Bell right?
Golden State Warriors Fan 4 Life!!!
Biggest GSW fan in NY!
Twitter: @GSWarrior9
..............SC30..............
I think the Clippers will match whatever offer we make. We should still make the offer tho. The good thing about this 2011, twitter world we live in, is the fact that we will know within 12 hours if the Clips intend to match the offer, instead of waiting the 3 days that are standard in the new CBA. Somebody from the clippers front office will let it leak what their intentions are. But yes, DJ is the main focus at this point. Looking at Biedrins up close today at practice, I can tell you that he’s better than anything else out there on the market besides DJ and Nene at this point. Thats not saying much I know.
asdf
I think the Clippers will match whatever offer we make. We should still make the offer tho.
yeah -we sould make them bleed -at least in terms of money
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
What happened to the Sterling of old?
Big Baby Jesus 2012
by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Dec 10, 2011 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
I'll wait until I see what he can do on the court
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
word
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"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
But he’s in the best shape of his life
by GameSix on Dec 10, 2011 8:46 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
LOL
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Is GSOM starting a fantasy basketball league?
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
I get that the FO is going after a C, but why Deandre Jordan? They’re going to overpay for Deandre….He’s definitely not worth 10 mil a year. Maybe in the future, but as of right now we should hold off on signing him.
ya well, in the future if he becomes better, his value will be way higher and everyone will want him....
We would be taking a gamble now, but it’s a decent gamble, especially if Andris comes to form again we will have solid depth at C
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
by LostHawkGSW on Dec 10, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah and what if he becomes a bust and we’re stuck with his contract? I don’t see the attraction in Jordan to be honest. He’s very athletic, but he needs a lot of work until he receives that kind of money. Personally, he’s overrated on this site.
in the current market, 10M per is not much...caron butler got 8M per...chandler is about to get ~15, and NENE 20...10 seems good for a promosing super athletic true center
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Just because a lot of players are being overpaid doesn’t mean we have to join in. A promising center? Lmao, since when is Deandre “promising?” He’s very athletic and has potential, I will admit to that, but so was Anthony Randolph.
by DubsFan408 on Dec 10, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He’s worth 10 mil a year. He plays the most important position on the floor and last year we started the worst C in the league. Were desperate, and alot of promises were made. DJ is a beast in my opinion. Having him starting with Biedrins coming off the bench gets us in the playoffs.
NO, he is not worth 10 million a year.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
He’s get $10 M a year, we know that. He’ll produce at a level far below that.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
In a uptempo system like our, he’ll be a 12 and 10 guy with 2.5 blocks a game. Thats worth 10 million.
he wont last long enoug to get 12 and 10 with 2.5 blocks
his foul rate is through the roof. on the warriors would be even worse
In how many minutes?
If he gets up to 30+ MPG, he could do that, but I don’t think that’s realistic. bigkino accurately points out that he has an insane foul rate. Also, we don’t know what his conditioning is like. He might not be able to handle that many uptempo minutes physically.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
poooooop
MSteinmetzCSN Matt Steinmetz
Denver signs Mbah a Moute to four-year, $19 million offer sheet. Unknown if Milwaukee will match. Warriors should have been all over that.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
Damn
He was the best defender on the market.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Sooo
I’m guessing we’re set with Wright at SF? Who the hell will defend the scorers? Nobody on this roster is a good perimeter defender.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
I think that...
by putting all their eggs in the DeAndre Jordan basket they are missing out on all the actual value in this free agent market. Unfortunately they’ve been priced out of the running for any of the “impact” players available, but while they pull together every last bit of cap space for Jordan, and then wait around for three days to see what the Clipps do, they will be missing out on some guys that could really help this team. I guess that’s what happens when you promise “something big” though right? I’d rather have something undersized that can play… on a reasonable contract.
by olympicmike on Dec 10, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
The funny thing is,
DeAndre Jordan isn’t that big of a signing anyways. He can dunk and play defense, plus he’s a hard worker. But he’s not a guy who can post up or create offense. His free throw percentage is in the 40% range. He’s basically Andris Biedrins (2011 version) with a lot better defense.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah...
Nene, Chandler, Gasol could have made a real impact on this team, but Jordan is perceived as the “next best thing” which is why they have forced themselves to make a move for him. Unfortunately, when the ink drys and he’s actually a part of the team we’ll see that he may put up disturbingly similar numbers to the center we already have.
I do think Jordan might work out ok, but I think if the front office was thinking more creatively they could have found much better value and improved multiple positions.
I agree that
promising something big has basically hamstrung the Warriors. Now we must sign a big man.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Still
We should have tried to go for him. Remember Tony Allen? Turns out perimeter D is pretty valuable.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Work hard Andris
didn’t he start going downhill from his small injuries. Those abdominal injuries, and of course the free throw nightmares.
Hopefully he does prove everyone wrong, there’s a small amount of Andris believers out there.
7
As a Latvia
Andris will always have a place in my heart
but I really hope he reounds because he makes it harder every year
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Proud parent of Jeff Keppinger's better half
by operation carrot on Dec 10, 2011 10:49 AM PST reply actions
Heres to hoping
Mark Jackson is the next Harbaugh because this roster is not significantly improving
Why do I get this funny feeling that he is the next Singletary...
I’m the first to admit this is a BS, emotional, and cynical response, but his lack of coaching experience is a concern.
I certainly HOPE he can pull a Harbaugh, just like I HOPE that Beans does find that spark that made us think he could be a franchise cornerstone. His injury in 09-10 probably affected him more than he ever talked about, but last year was just so piss poor. This is the kind of guy that needs to be playing well enough to deserve 30 minutes a game of PT.
I feel like I want to rage. Right now.
Singletary was a motivational speaker, not a coach
You follow me, I'll follow you --------> http://ayeyooojerm.tumblr.com/
- SF GIants Baseball 2011 = *sigh* Home of 6 World Series Titles
- SF 49ers Football 2011-2012 = ??? Home of the 5.5 Super Bowl Champs ( Aaron Rodgers should of been a Niner)
- WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US???? NOOOOOOOOOOBODYY!!!!!!!!!!!!
- A fan of the Warriors and Lakers.
How come there is no "I hope he does" in the poll?
You follow me, I'll follow you --------> http://ayeyooojerm.tumblr.com/
- SF GIants Baseball 2011 = *sigh* Home of 6 World Series Titles
- SF 49ers Football 2011-2012 = ??? Home of the 5.5 Super Bowl Champs ( Aaron Rodgers should of been a Niner)
- WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US???? NOOOOOOOOOOBODYY!!!!!!!!!!!!
- A fan of the Warriors and Lakers.
Haha
We all hope he does. Be bold! Make a prediction! ;)
by olympicmike on Dec 10, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Rusty_SFChron Rusty Simmons
The Warriors signed training camp invitees Chris Wright (Dayton) and Gary Flowers (So. Miss).
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
BOOM!
I hope he does this at least once or twice a game
Chris Wright
by JoesBurlyCurls on Dec 10, 2011 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
I'll be honest...
I’m really surprised to see how well Andris is doing in this poll. As someone who’s been a pretty steadfast supporter of the guy, even I am having trouble casting a yes vote. I really want to believe, but after apologizing for his play for the last two seasons I don’t think I have it in me to throw my faith behind him without seeing some evidence of improvement on the court.
I will, however, happily hop on the bandwagon if he plays well enough to warrant one. :)
oh...
In case the poll takes a turn for the worse, I’ll say for the record with 604 votes 60% of Warriors fans think Andris will return to form.
by olympicmike on Dec 10, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
actually
it just shows how everybody is hungry 4 bball -and hopes that W’s will do well
…whata foolz
BTW …wher’s Skep?
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Should have paid Tyson Chandler
It costs serious money to sign an elite NBA center. Biedrins may seem more confident because his English is better. We will see if if he can make a free throw or play any defense
by Hundredthousanddollarpluswhipmaster on Dec 10, 2011 12:21 PM PST reply actions
….We gave Chandler enough money (overpaid, actually), more than the Knicks offered him. But he went to NY, so I don’t know why you would say we should have paid Chandler when we gave him the most out of all of his offers. And yes it does cost serious money to sign an elite defensive center, but too bad Chandler isn’t an elite center.
better nightclubs.
curry & iggy TEAM USA buddies.
by bimmercirem3 on Dec 10, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I'm calling it
We pay DeAndre Jordan 4 years, 40 million.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
Seeing how Tyson Chandler got 4 yrs/ 60M. It looks like it
You follow me, I'll follow you --------> http://ayeyooojerm.tumblr.com/
- SF GIants Baseball 2011 = *sigh* Home of 6 World Series Titles
- SF 49ers Football 2011-2012 = ??? Home of the 5.5 Super Bowl Champs ( Aaron Rodgers should of been a Niner)
- WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US???? NOOOOOOOOOOBODYY!!!!!!!!!!!!
- A fan of the Warriors and Lakers.
4 yrs @ 40m. isn't decisively better than the LA-C offer
the same $$ guaranteed over five years is less per annum of course, but the new c.b.a.‘s tighter cap will mean a different market price in four years. is Jordan’s talent (and as important, hoops IQ) so can’t-miss that he’s sure to see an fatter deal in four years ? if the total amount is identical, why would he want to leave his buddy Griffin ?
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
I'm assuming we don't make a stupid offer
Here’s the contract I’m afraid of:
4 years, 50+ million. We’d be paying over 12 million a year to DeAndre to solely play defense.
As a aide note, I am very scared, because it feels like we will overpay, due to the whole “something big” thing the Warriors have promised us.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
not like it would be much different with chandler
chandler doesn’t have much of an offensive game either…and hes getting 15M per.
not saying jordan is nearly as good as chandler, but he is far more athletic and FAR younger.
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
unlike chandler though
deandre isnt a good defender
Actually
the bigger difference is that Chandler can hit free throws, while DeAndre cannot
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
No.
The bigger difference is Chandler’s a very good defender and Jordan is a bad one.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
How?
DeAndre Jordan is a good defender. The stats back him up. He is not a good offensive player, but that’s another story.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
No, it's quite the opposite.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
His offensive rapm is good. Defense...that's another story.
Ron Paul 2012
by GovernorStephCurry on Dec 10, 2011 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
No.
RAPM is not the end all or be all. Look at Hoopdata. Last year he had about 65% of his shots assisted, and made 4.3 shots per game. That means he made 1.5 shots by himself. He also grabbed 2.6 offensive rebounds per game. Let’s assume that the offensive rebound/putback dunk accounts for about .7 made shots per game – that’s less than one made shot per game which DeAndre created by himself.
DeAndre also shoots in the 40% range on free throws. Make him shoot free throws and he earns you about 0.8 points per possession.
He is not good on offense.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Deandre Jordan has maintained a very high TS% in his career, so he’s a valuable offensive player. Last year it was .648. He only scores off of dunks, though, so he is obviously limited.
Still- if we go with your assumption that he’s actually not at all good on offense, then we have a player who has literally 0 value because he’s an even worse defender. He doesn’t understand defense. He’s just able to jump and block the occasional shot.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
I did not say that he had zero value on offense
I said he was not good on offense. He has value if you put him in pick and roll situations or get out and run, so that he can get dunks, alley oops and easy layups. But it is limited value.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
deandre is by no means a good defender
show me stats that suggest otherwise. and please dont say blocks
If you go on Synergy Sports
His defensive numbers look good. Overall opponents shoot 39.2% against him.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
Jordan isn't that bad, he's a great shot blocker and has room for improvement.
He got 2.5 win shares last year in 24 mins a game. That’s quality.
WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!
by true torture on Dec 10, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Chandler could mix in some jump shots
about .25 of his total attempts, certainly not a big part of his offense but a means to keep the defenses guessing. a little variety plus foul shooting puts much more on opposing defenses than what players like Biedrins or Jordan can muster. Chandler is an established ‘glue’ defender against playoff competition, so his age and injury history are the main reasons he’s not valued even higher relative to Jordan.
Music is the Healing Force of the Universe (a.ayler)
Play defense and not play it well at all. Really, all he does is dunk and rebound.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
I didn’t say he was a “great” defender – one year doesn’t make him a great defender. But he is big, athletic, and he showed last year that he could challenge shots and defend the post. He is a good defender.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
I didn’t say you said he was a great defender. I am of the opinion that he is kind of like JaVale McGee on defense. He blocks shots, but doesn’t really do much else. He doesn’t have an understanding of NBA defense.
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/players/765.png
Good defenders don’t consistently post negative +/- defense numbers, even on bad defensive teams.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Adjusted Plus Minus
Requires a much larger sample size, especially when he did not play many minutes for his first two years.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
And that is a problem
But i am sure that he can learn to be less aggressive on defense. Alter the shot instead of trying to block it.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
I'd point to a guy like Anderson Varejao
who reduced his fouling after fouling a lot his first couple years.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
The point is
Fouling is easy to improve on. DeAndre has the athletic goods on defense, plus he has a solid work ethic.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying we should sign him however
He will be overpaid
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Dude has played almost 4000 minutes in his NBA career. That’s not a small sample size. It might not be RAPM huge, but it’s still not nothing.
On basketballvalue.com, his 2 year APM is 3.04. Pretty big standard error, though. numbers are all bad, but he hasn’t gotten on the court because he plays behind an even worse center. His counting numbers are pretty okay, but his foul rate harshly limits his production.
If you have access to synergy, what’s his opponent’s PPP against him?
I guess the jury kind of is out on him. His +/
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Oh dammit
stupid strike outs.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Well
Part of the reason he hasn’t seen the court much is his fouls. I think his fouls can be improved on (which is where we disagree), and if he does that, then he will have a good, consistent contribution on defense.
Opponents have 0.8 PPP against him.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
We should also probably stop arguing about this defense thing
The Warriors haven’t signed him yet. Now, if he signs with the Warriors then we can talk about if he defense is good and if his fouls can be improved.
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Overpaid
If you're watching a blowout, you can pass the time by counting the double teapots.
Samurai Champloo > Macross
by doubleteapot on Dec 10, 2011 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
And that will suck for whatever team signs him, like the team that gives Deandre Jordan $10 M a year.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
Jeff Green just got 9 mill to come off the bench. Welcome to the new NBA, you gotta pay to play 9 times outta 10.
It was originally reported that Jeff Green was just going to make the qualifying offer and then Boston raised it for no reason.
The Jeff Green signing sucks, but it isn’t that big of a deal because it’s only 1 year.
You pointing out other dumbass signings doesn’t change my mind about Deandre Jordan making way too much money. It will still suck to have him for that much money. He’s a significant portion of your salary cap if you do that.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
What you fail to understand is that what you consider overpaying, GM’s consider market value. If you were a GM you’d probably get fired because of your penny pinching. The guys you would spend big money on are not interested in playing/living here. So what do you do? Tank is not a viable answer.
Yes, a GM would get fired because he didn’t want to waste his owner’s money on mediocre players like Deandre Jordan or Jeff Green. Not like there are lots of penny pinching owners who would keep me. Probably the only owner who would fire me for being frugal is James Dolan.
Tank is not a viable answer.
Why not? From what I can tell, building through the draft is the only viable option for a team like ours. You’ve said it a million times- we can’t build through free agency. The other option is to build through the draft, and to build through the draft you have to tank.
Now, if you meant to say that it won’t happen, I agree. It’s too bad, really. It’s what has to happen.
I heard he doesn't like music.
by Reverend_Randy on Dec 10, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
As much as I hate to say it, our best chance of getting to the big time right now lies with Andris. If he CAN become what he was, or a little more, the Ws could get into the playoffs, be more attractive to FAs next year, and Andris becomes a decent trading chip.
I don’t like outbidding the Clips for their own players. Didn’t work out so well the last time.
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
I'm done pining my hopes on Beans. I predicted a 45 win season last year as he regained his form from just one bad injury plagued year.
After last year was even worse, we’re going to be another center-less team. Hopefully we lose enough games for 7th pick or better, or we sneak into the playoffs.
WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!
yeah
fool me once…
Even if you do succeed most people wouldn't notice anyway.
by Lat We N Trash on Dec 10, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
We dont ahve to amnesty anyone for Jordan
Was my understanding.
extrabaggs
"Just your typical Giants scoring rally: A faceburger on the basepaths, two errors from the second baseman and a bases-loaded balk."
by Badly Browned on Dec 10, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions
I'll miss how optimistic everyone here is when I leave to go to whatever team Reggie goes to
Biedrins will return to form when Oden’s knees magically heal so he becomes a full time starter, centers don’t get overpaid, and kids growing up want to play for the Pacers, Grizzlies, and Bobcats instead of the Celtics, Lakers, and Knicks (aka never).
Do we have to amnesty before the season starts?
Seems like we should hold onto it and give Biedrins a month or so to see what he can (or can’t) do.
Its not like we’re actually going to obtain anyone of significance this offseason anyway.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
-Earl Wilson
by Murderer's Rowand on Dec 11, 2011 2:32 PM PST reply actions
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