NJN traded for Deron Williams. What are you doing, GSW?
by YaHeard on Feb 23, 2011 1:57 PM PST
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PrintSo the Nets just got a Top 5 PG for a young talent, an overpaid small scoring guard, draft picks and cash.
The Warriors have young talent, an overpaid small scoring guard (Monta), draft picks and cash. Why didn't WE trade for Deron Williams?
OH, that's right. It's because our management sucks and we still think ME = MJ. I don't care if Curry and DWill play at the same time, they'd win alot more games than the Curry/Ellis combo has. I feel like pulling my hair out whenever I see a trade go down for a real NBA star, and we have similar trade assets to get the job done. Maybe I'm just bitter about the thought of Troy Murphy back in Oakland.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I'm pretty sure the Jazz would have wanted Stephen Curry over Monta Ellis.
A young point guard who’s still on his rookie contract. If we were to trade for Deron Williams it would have most likely been Curry leaving, not Monta. A Williams/Ellis backcourt would have been better anyway.
by Precise Films Productions on Feb 23, 2011 2:04 PM PST reply actions
imo
Devin Harris and Monta Ellis are more comparable in terms of high salary and uselessness in winning basketball games.
"We Deserve"
And what do we give them?
Seriously…. why is another team giving us a top 10 pick for BW, Udoh, etc?
We blew the 6 pick last year. Therefor there is really no way we could ever get someone Deron’s level in a trade without giving up Curry
Don’t agree. Devin Harris is a PG, and his salary isn’t that high. About $9M this year and next year, $8.5M the following year.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
uselessness in winning basketball games.
Monta and Harris have both been on some really good teams
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Monta and Harris have both been on some really good teams
“Really good” is charitable with respect to the “we believe” warriors.
They squeaked into the playoffs, and yes, they pulled off the 1-vs-8 upset, but that was against a team they matched up incredibly well against, reliant on one player who we had the perfect antidote to (Jackson on Dirk) and which was totally incapable of punishing us for our biggest weakness (absence of big men other than Biedrins).
You want to call them a “good” team, okay, I can go with you. “Really good?”
eh.
+1
Curry for DWill works better for both parties. Kind of surprised we didn’t offer Steph (I’m assuming we didn’t since i think Utah would’ve rather had Steph than Devin and Favors)
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
My problem with Williams is he can’t sign an extension to July. I still don’t think I’d trade Curry for him without being able to sign him to an extension. I really don’t like the risk of losing both of them.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
I heard Jazz offered Al for Curry and Biedrins.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Thankfully we said no.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 23, 2011 5:35 PM PST up reply actions
Ha, I hope we counted with Charlie Bell for Favors.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
Ok seriously who is Naticus?
This guys been hearin voices left and right.
Mostly right
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 23, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Utah wouldn't have took Ellis
Too many Tattoos…
jk kind of
"You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
by fr8nk the tank on Feb 23, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
i really don’t understand how people keep calling monta an “overpaid” shooting guard. Look at the comparable players in the league – who aren’t in rookie contracts – and tell me monta’s overpaid.
I know a lot of people hate Bill Simmons, and that’s fair, but he listed Monta’s contract as one of the twelve BEST non-rookie contracts in the league.
Look at the money being thrown at Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, Devin Harris, etc. $11M for 25ppg, decent efficiency, 5APG and 2SPG…. that is not a bad contract.
my 2 cents…
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
looking at the rest of the league isn't a good idea
The league is full of other terrible teams who make terrible decisions, just like us. I’d rather we look at the very good teams and see what they do.
Joe Johnson is the highest paid Hawk, but you know what, they actually win games because they’re good and JJ is part of that.
Rudy Gay, Mike Conley, Devin Harris.. all great fantasy basketball players, not great at actually playing basketball and winning games. Just because their respective teams made bad decisions to pay them and suck as a result of that, doesn’t mean the Warriors should either.
My problem with Monta Ellis being the highest paid Warrior is that he never did anything to show us that he actually helps us win basketball games. The last time we were any good, Baron was running the show and Monta was sitting on the bench with a towel over his head (literally and metaphorically). When Monta got paid and missed a season due to the moped fiasco, the Warriors weren’t any worse off than when Monta was actually on the court.
Every single piece of statistical evidence and common sense tells us that Monta isn’t helping us, however we’re biased because he’s the one that takes most of the shots and puts the ball into the hoop the most often. It’s similar to the Allen Iverson effect.
"We Deserve"
isn't that always the case with good players?
how many players in this league would give the cavs a winning record? 5?
The Lakers sucked when Kobe was their only talent. The Hawks would suck with JJ as their only talent. The Heat were mediocre at best with Wade as their only talent. Of course, we have Steph, but the point is….we’re not a good TEAM. and while, yes, monta isn’t a superstar…we can’t determine his worth fully until we have a solid team that he’s a part of.
And, with all due respect, i find it absurd to think that we shouldn’t look at what the rest of the league is doing. we’re competing with them!! you think there aren’t a plethora of teams that would pay Monta Ellis $11M a year? there are. the reality is, EVERYONE is overpaid in the NBA. should we have not paid Monta so much? okay, no Monta. Should we have not paid Lee so much? okay, no Lee. Should we not extend Curry when he demands an exorbitant contract? okay, no steph. Dumping Beans, obviously, we have a starting lineup of Jeremy Lin, Reggie Williams, D. Wright, Ekpe Udoh and Lu Amundson. No one’s grossly overpaid.
We always need to look at the rest of the league, because the rest of the league is our competition.
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
by bradyk2 on Feb 23, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe I need to rephrase
We can’t look at what Everyone else is doing. We need to be looking at what the good franchises are doing.
I’m sick of seeing the Warriors wasting large amounts of payroll on players to “wait and see” if the pieces come together and become a good team. This ‘trial and error’ approach is completely wrong.
Paying Stephen Jackson, Ellis, Biedrins, Lee, Murphy, Dunleavy, Foyle.. all terrible decisions that have turned us into losers for the latter half of the previous decade. And it wasn’t a “hindsight is 20/20” type thing either, they were bad decisions at the time.
You can’t just keep re-signing your garbage and expect to have the salary cap flexibility to keep improving your team.
Steph Curry is one of the few players to come through this organization that I’m impressed with (and I had very low expectations for him when he got drafted). I hope he gets paid his worth. Dorrell Wright and Ronny Turiaf were two other signings I was very happy with. As for almost every other management decision we’ve made, they’ve been crap and our perennial failures have reflected this.
"We Deserve"
by YaHeard on Feb 23, 2011 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And it wasn’t a "hindsight is 20/20" type thing either, they were bad decisions at the time.
The Monta and Biedrins deals at the time were very smart.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 23, 2011 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
It was smart to give $66 mil to an undersized, underweight, second-round-talent SG with no handles, no vision, no 3pt range, below-average rebounding ability, below-average defensive ability/drive, an attitude problem, and an adolescent-like affinity for mopeds?
It was smart to give $63 mil to an underweight C who had no ability to hold the post defensively, no ability to defend the rim against guards without fouling, no ability to create offense on his own, no jumpshot, and FT abilities worse than SHAQ?
This is what I’m talking about with the “trial and error” approach. Understand that we paid $11 mil/yr and $9 mil/yr to these guys when the salary cap was around $52 mil. When you pay 38% of your payroll to 13% of your roster, they better be able to carry your team to victories. Unfortunately, we paid them on their potential to improve and become good basketball players, which we are still waiting on.
It’s not like nobody saw this coming either. There are many fans on this site who hated these two signings at the time. If the deals were so smart, how come we bid against only ourselves to keep them. I fail to see how these were smart deals, even at the time.
Finding and keeping good players in the NBA and letting go of bad ones isn’t exactly rocket science. This is terribly frustrating.
"We Deserve"
The Biedrins contract was very reasonable if you look at what similar centers have received.
Heck, due to its non-escalating nature, it may have been a steal.
Of course, that value was destroyed by the decline in Biedrins play. You say it’s not exactly rocket science but look at similar centers and what they got, and tell me that Biedrins was really overpaid.
Monta’s contract is tougher. Of course, I’m not a Monta fan, but there seems to be a sizable contingent that thinks he’s one of the best five or six guards in the west, and if that were true, then he’s a steal on his contract.
That being said, there are a lot of people who scream if a player “gets away for nothing” – how many people were ranting and raving over the Morrow and CJ deals?
Not exactly rocket science – how much would you have offered Monta?
11 million a year for a 22 year old coming off the season Monta had wasn't that much.
There was seriously hope he could improve, yet he’s regressed substantially except for volume scoring.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 23, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
Biedrins isn’t any worse of a basketball player than he was 3 years ago (besides the FT shooting maybe). He’s putting up worse statistics. There is a difference.
He’s getting less rebounds because he’s sharing space with real forwards (Lee and Wright) who can rebound. He’s scoring less because he’s not as involved in the offense as when Nellie was coaching. He’s getting less minutes because he’s now less effective with our current roster/system.
You can’t tell me that his basketball skills got worse over the last couple of years. He’s just now been exposed for the poor basketball player he always has been. The system/roster from before is no longer in place to inflate his numbers which led you to believe he’s a “similar center” to those other overpaid scrubs.
As for paying Biedrins according to other “similar centers”, that’s a terrible way to go about it. With that kind of logic, we should be happy to give Biedrins $9mil/yr just because it’s a MUCH BETTER DEAL than what we gave to Adonal Foyle, and it’s a MUCH BETTER DEAL than what Eddy Curry got. You see the fallacy in that logic? Doing what other bad teams do is not a recipe for success and should not be our justification for wasting payroll.
How much would I have offered Monta? Not a single penny. If he was really worth something, we could’ve traded him on his rookie deal for something of worth. If Monta had left, I have a strong inclination to believe we would be no worse off today, plus we’d have more flexibility to improve our team for the future.
"We Deserve"
Biedrins isn’t any worse of a basketball player than he was 3 years ago
I disagree. Now I agree with you a guy his age should not lose his skills, but I think it’s obvious Biedrins isn’t playing the same as he used to. He isn’t the same active cutter that goes hard to the rim on offense. He was always a garbage bucket kinda guy, but before there was no hesitation or reluctance from him to try to finish. He’s playing differently, there’s even been talk about how he doesn’t always roll when he’s supposed to. The natural skills might all still be there, but he’s playing a worse brand of basketball. Defensively he’s not as effective, either. Fouls are up, blocks are way down. He’s definitely playing less effective basketball than before.
Doing what other bad teams do is not a recipe for success and should not be our justification for wasting payroll.
Sure, but it’s not just bad teams, and when it becomes widespread enough, eventually it dictates market price. C’s get paid a lot. It’s how the market works.
by Missing Barry on Feb 24, 2011 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
Now I agree with you a guy his age should not lose his skills, but I think it’s obvious Biedrins isn’t playing the same as he used to.
I’ll agree to disagree with you on this one. It’s a moot point anyway. I didn’t believe he was worth his contract back then, and he’s definitely not worth his contract now.
C’s get paid a lot. It’s how the market works.
I see what you’re saying, centers generally tend to get overpaid. I get that. The thing is.. nobody was pointing a gun at our heads telling us we need to give him that contract extension. We had the option to NOT to pay that price for him. If he did have perceived value, we very well could’ve traded him for other assets. We could’ve signed another veteran big man. We could have drafted another C and given him a chance. Nobody MADE us pay him $63mil, we had options. Biedrins hasn’t proven to be irreplaceable to us.
"We Deserve"
I see what you’re saying, centers generally tend to get overpaid.
It’s not that centers get overpaid.
It’s that centers are really, really valuable.
eg – and I know it’s not the be-all, end-all stat, but it’s worth pointing out that it’s pretty freakin’ accurate for what it is:
But Biedrins is currently #3 on our team in wins produced, and #1 in WP48.
Having a decent center – and I’m not entirely sure Biedrins qualifies right now – makes a HUGE difference when it comes to winning and losing.
So it’s not that you have to overpay centers. It’s that centers are so valuable that they’re worth a lot. Even a mediocre center can add more wins than a significantly above average wing.
No disagreement here. Centers are damn valuable.
I just don’t believe that Biedrins is very good at all, even compared to other centers. His individual stats are incredibly misleading. They don’t mean anything. Just like Troy Murphy’s stats. Just like Darko’s stats. Just like Al Jefferson’s stats. They’re misleading.
WP48 is just a big crap jumbalaya combination of these worthless stats. Trying to assign coefficients of importance, like WP does, to these garbage statistics is purely idiotic. Somebody forgot to remind them that these stats were created just because they’re extremely easy to measure and award and they’re easy for any average joe off the street to see and get interested in. Nobody ever said that accumulating these stats had any correlation to actually winning games, which is what we really care about (don’t we?)
"We Deserve"
I actually think it’s a combination between C’s being valuable and C’s being overpaid in general.
Also, I completely disagree with your characterization of Biedrins stats. You did throw out some good names there, completely agree on Murphy, Darko and Jefferson, but I don’t think Biedrins falls in that category and I think there are a number of important distinctions, which can be backed by evidence, why. Individual stats themselves are only important in how they affect the teams performance. Guys like Murphy, Darko and Jefferson don’t have a positive effect on their teams performance. Biedrins does (or at least did, he’s clearly not playing like we need him to).
by Missing Barry on Feb 24, 2011 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Nobody ever said that accumulating these stats had any correlation to actually winning games
You’re dead wrong here. Berri has done extensive work with WP and correlating it to wins, and I think the R-squared gets up somewhere near .9.
Which is pretty freakin’ impressive, if you asked me.
It’s weird that you make the comparison of the players you mention, because, for example, WP has often been very critical of Darko – giving him credit for being only a small amount below average in a couple of seasons, and considered him pretty much worthless in several others. WP liked Al Jefferson a lot some years, considered him slightly above average in others. Again, that strikes me as about right for him. He’s had some good years, some so-so years in which people overvalued him because he scored a lot of points.
Biedrins isn’t any worse of a basketball player than he was 3 years ago (besides the FT shooting maybe). He’s putting up worse statistics. There is a difference.
This makes me think you haven’t actually watched him play.
He is much more passive offensively. He doesn’t go to the rim hard and finish anywhere near as much. He’s playing soft.
You can’t tell me that his basketball skills got worse over the last couple of years.
I won’t. In fact, I think he’s added that little hook move.
But something is wrong with his head, and he doesn’t play anywhere near as aggressively as he used to. He doesn’t close to the basket hard when his man goes to help, instead he tends to pop out, where he’s not effective.
As for him getting fewer rebounds than he used to, his rebounding is down a whopping .6/36. In other words from last year – in other words, talking about the change in personelle being responsible makes almost no sense. Especially when any blind man can see the change in his aggressinveness and comfort near the basket.
He’s playing soft.
Biedrins is and always has been soft. I challenge you to find any non-Warrior homer to back up that statement.
He doesn’t close to the basket hard when his man goes to help, instead he tends to pop out, where he’s not effective.
You don’t believe that David Lee has anything to do with this? David Lee is the king of crashing the paint on offense. Back when Don Nelson was running the show, he liked to run 4 guards at a time giving Biedrins an opportunity to roll to an open bucket almost at will. Now that we have a forward in David Lee that likes to crash the offense boards, the same opportunities just aren’t there with more defenders in the paint now.
As for him getting fewer rebounds than he used to, his rebounding is down a whopping .6/36
I’ll give you that, I just eyeballed the rebounding numbers. I will continue to claim that Biedrins just isn’t as effective for us as he used to be.
"We Deserve"
Biedrins is and always has been soft. I challenge you to find any non-Warrior homer to back up that statement.
Whether or not he’s always been soft is irrelevant. He’s much softer now than he used to be. If you want to say he was soft then, well, rather than argue about it I will merely point out that there are degrees of soft. Biedrins is softer now than he was, and it’s obvious if you watch him play.
David Lee is the king of crashing the paint on offense.
I wish this were true, but this year, it really seems not to be. The David Lee I thought we were getting was, I agree with you, great at crashing to the paint. The guy we’ve had this year? Not so much. He’s the king of the 12-foot-jumper.
But in any event, it’s irrelevant. Because no, David Lee doesn’t have anything to do with Biedrins popping out when his man goes to double, rather than cutting to the basket – this is a basketball 101 skill which Biedrins used to understand and apply to his game, and he no longer seems to.
I think a lot of the things you mentioned weren’t necessarily true or apparent at the time of the contracts. Biedrins FT’s were improving and actually became respectable. He did a solid job protecting the rim, and even didn’t foul too much. Monta hadn’t shown any maturity or moped issues at that time or an attitude problem. He had been a very effective offensive player who was still quite young, however. You’re also high on the Biedrins contract. Also, 38% of your payroll isn’t that much. $30M+ is plenty to land a max guy.
Honestly, we were in a pretty good position up until we signed Maggette and extended Jack. A freak moped injury to Monta, and Brandan’s injuries helped set us back, as well. Things could have easily gone a different, and much better, direction.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
the crappy latvian
sucks, that simple.
by Anonymous1337 on Feb 24, 2011 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Monta
Whatever you think of him, has a very team friendly contract. I knock the guy, but his deal is very good.
And Lee is the highest paid Warrior, not Monta. Now Lee IS overpaid (and i like Lee, just think our frontline needs to add a different guy than AB to Lee to make Lee’s weaknesses stand out less.)
by supersugarCrisp on Feb 24, 2011 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
If there is any player I would trade Steph for it would be for Deron Williams. You only gain in a trade like that. A young up and coming PG for a young proven PG. That’s a heartbeat trade without thought. But WTF is Warriors management doing? I can understand Melo, he wanted to play in NY. Deron was a knee jerk reaction from a broken franchise. And how about Andre Miller for Gerald Wallace. really??? WTF are the warriors doing? My god this is getting beyond obsured. At least the warriors draft picks were involved in the two blockbuster trades this season, at least we continue to make other teams better by bad management.
The warriors have shown no interest in winning basketball
They are happy to have loyal fans who will pay to watch gimick basketball. That’s what we have now. We have two undersized, entertaining combo guards(Steph and Monta), a pretty boy who doesn’t play D(David Lee) and a player with the most made 3 in the league, but can’t hit a pull up jumper(Dorell Wright). It’s business first. They’ll still sell tickets.
Solution: Boycott the games. Pay for a billboard right outside of Oracle saying "The Warriors Suck, - By The Warrior Fans at GSOM
Time to rebel.
No one said you had to be a Warriors fan
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Feb 23, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
If you boycott, then there will be no teams in Northern California
The Kings are getting ready to move to Anaheim. I like to root for my local team. It would be no fun to have to catch a plane just to watch my team.
And the sad thing is
If you gave those loyal fans a winning team as a result of better investments, you would have a GOLD MINE. Millions and Millions of dollars. If the Thunder were in the bay instead of Oklahoma their owners would wiping their asses with 100’s rolling blunts with 50’s. Top of Forbes and all that. There’s soo much money to be made in the bay, especially if you put together a winning team
We cant trade a 1st round pick!
PFortyy :)
'11 Champs!
We can’t trade a 1st round pick, and no, it is not.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
How is that package not as attractive as Devon Harris and Derrick Favors?
You rather have Harris over Curry?
AND two first round picks.
Curry is the most attractive piece of either package. However, Harris + Favors + 2 1st rounders trumps Curry by quite a bit. Udoh doesn’t come very close to making up for that.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
If you're starting a franchise from scratch, would you rather have Curry or Favors?
Curry is clearly better today, but I think it’s a closer call because of the premium on big men. He’s 19 and is showing signs of being able to do it all.
Curry + Udoh isn't a better package.
Curry is better than Harris – a little right not, a lot if you’re judging by potential, but, of course, potential may never happen.
But Favors is better than Udoh by a tremendous amount. Favors is already producing as a close-to-NBA-average level, and he’s got just as much potential, if not more, than Curry.
Udoh, on the other hand, has shown one NBA-quality skill: help defense.
Several people – not just DJfiv – have suggested that a package built around Curry and Udoh is a better package than what New Jersey got, but I don’t see it. It strikes me as the typical GSOM hugely-overvaluing our own guys thing.
You want to top that offer, you have to throw something else in, and no, a mid-first-round pick (which we couldn’t add even if we had) doesn’t cut it.
Maybe Dorell? Maybe now you’re topping that offer. If you’re lucky they take Reggie instead, but I doubt it.
agreed
no matter how many ways you look at it, the dubz simply do not have enough chips to match or overtake an offer like the NJ put up. you can blame Mullin for that.
Favors has much, much, much, much more potential that Udoh. Between his physical tools and his age, Udoh just doesn’t compare.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Curry's upside is so much better than Harris's
Harris is not a top 5 shooter. If you’re going by potential in Favors, then you can’t dismiss potential in Udoh and Curry as well. Fact is, we should have tried to trade for Williams.
And the fact is, their offer was better than what we can offer, so it’s kind of a moot point….
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
The fact is
there’s no word we tried to even trade for Williams
Ha, I personally fear the day when we hear of every single phone call a GM makes….
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
amen
what people neglect is that the trade rumors that make it to ESPN are only the ones that were close to fruition, or talked about by a current player. GMs are on the phone hours a day. my guess is, of the 25 teams that aren’t currently contending for a championship, 25 of them called Utah since Sloan retired.
personally i’m glad we didn’t hear that we tried to get him. Just what this team needs is for us to NOT get DWill, but have Steph-fun know that we tried to trade him
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
you may be glad we didn't get him
but hes most likely going to be better than Curry ever will.
when did i say i didn't want dwill???
I’d take DWill over curry on any day that ends in “y.”
I’m just stating that just because NJ got DWill with no rumors about any other teams, doesn’t mean we didn’t TRY to get him.
Have there been DWill trade rumors with any team? no. do you really think the other 28 teams in the league didn’t call Utah? no.
don’t assume we didn’t make an offer, that’s ridiculous.
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
<blockquoteJust what this team needs is for us to NOT get DWill, but have Steph-fun know that we tried to trade him>
I think the main idea
is that we wouldn’t have gotten him no matter what. If the information got out that we tried to trade Curry, his play might suffer or the morale of the team could worsen.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 23, 2011 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
i was clearly being sarcastic. my point was that, if Stephen hears we’re trying to trade him, and then we don’t his play will probably suffer. So, publicly trying to trade him, and failing to do so, is the worst possible scenario.
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
Theres a good possiblity the Warriors haven't talked about Williams though
everything is most likely leaked nowadays.
no
everything substantial is leaked nowadays. GMs call GMs every single day inquiring about players, yet >1% of those phone calls ever turn into articles.
The fact that we never heard a Jazz-Warriors trade doesn’t mean the warriors never called, it merely means it was never close to happening.
Also, don’t forget that Marc Stein reported over a week ago that the warriors were one of the frontrunners for DWill. these things don’t come from what stein thinks should happen, they come from what is plausible.
Again, hate on mgmt all you want for not being able to make trades; but don’t insult them by suggesting they’re sitting in their offices solving sudokus and eating sushi.
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
They aren't getting anything done and that's my gripe.
No matter if they’re trying or not, we’re stuck with this team for a good time unless we make a creative trade. I guess its ok then to be mediocre for the next 2+ years since theres no one we can trade for that will help us, or since we have no tradeable assets. Hmm… where have I heard this before… oh yea every single freakin year. The best we can do is always get expirings, but we never get any known good players in the offseason anyways (getting Dorell Wright was a different situation).
don't know what to say
it’s the NBA. you can’t always get what you want. Boston toiled in mediocrity for the better part of a decade, while complaints about their horrendous management swelled. one day KG asks to be traded, the next day the decade-long terror that was the Celtics mgmt is suddenly the best management in the nba….
just how it works sometime.
only 2 game-changers were available at the deadline, and we had no shot at either. who are we supposed to trade for, gerald wallace? carl landry? how does that actually make us better???
"probably get some stitches too! you have a good night! go warriors!" - david lee
We made our big move already. It was David Lee. I think your anger is misplaced on our inability to make a move now, when it should be directed towards the strategy that got us into this place (acquire David Lee and become an ok team stuck in basketball purgatory with a fairly unfavorable salary position)….
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
Indeed, it wouldn't be surprising -
- if the Marc Stein article was the result of a Stein source on either the Warrior or Jazz staffs telling him, “Warriors are making a serious play for Deron. But not only can you not use my name, you can’t even leak that it’s under discussion because they’ll figure out I was the one who talked to you.”
That’s often how articles like that come about. Now, maybe it was just speculation on Stein’s part, that’s also possible.
But if you want to claim that we definitely would have heard if the Dubs were putting together a package, well, doesn’t that Stein article maybe count as hearing?
My buddy who is a Jazz fan says the Jazz and Warriors have been in talks. Doesn’t specify but I guarantee Dubs wanted Williams.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
If your grandma got that info. from following news on the Jazz, then I would give her some credibility. Sometimes the Jazz fans hear stuff we don’t, I think.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
my grandma whos a jazz fan
Haha, that image is just disturbing.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 23, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you on Curry vs. Harris.
But the difference between Favors and Udoh is much, much bigger than the difference between Harris and Curry.
Even if you agree that Favors and Curry have similar ceilings, you prefer the big man over the little man, every time.
I wasn’t dismissing Curry’s potential. I’m saying Favor’s potential is worth more.
How is 6 pts 5 rebs in 20 minutes a game producing at an “close to nba average level” and tremendously better than 3 pts and 2 rebs in 14 mins a game?
Favors has a bigger upside, not denying that, but I just don’t think Udoh is that far behind
Why not just look at the per 36s?
Favors is over 11. Udoh is under 8. In other words, Favors scores, per minute, more than 30% more than Udoh.
11pts/36 is around average NBA production for a big man. Nothing special … but nothing to sniff at from a 19-year old, either.
He also does so more efficiently. Favors efficiency is average, maybe a smidge under for a big man. Udoh’s efficiency is downright bad.
Rebounding. Favors 9.8/36 is in the ballpark of acceptable for an NBA big man. Udoh’s 6.4/36 is downright terrible. Completely not acceptable.
Favors is also four years younger, so, in addition to being better now, you should expect him to improve substantially more. Favors is still developing physically, as well – and he’s already got an NBA body.
This isn’t complicated.
but nothing to sniff at from a 19-year old, either.
This. When a 19 year old is producing like that, it means much, much, much more than when a 23 year old is. Especially a 19 year old with Favors physical tools (which are easily superior to Udoh’s). Favors is the kind of players that might blossom into a superstar. Probably not, but there’s a reasonable chance, AND it’s incredibly likely he ends up the better player of the two.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 7:59 PM PST up reply actions
He already is better.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 23, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, I dunno about that. I’ll admit to having not really seen him play, but if we’re talking about their play at the current moment, I’d guess his defense isn’t close to Udoh’s and I’d wonder about his general awareness, as well.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
even if he falls short of superstar, he could turn into a high-tier defensive big man.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 23, 2011 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
I’d like to see more shot blocking out of him, but yeah, I see very little chance he becomes something less than a solid rotation player. With his athleticism (somewhat comparable to Dwight), and the way he’s already producing at his age….it’s gonna be an accomplishment if he doesn’t become a decent player.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
It was mostly about DFavors. Harris is throw-in garbage meant to temporarily fill in the gap at PG, so in both cases, the “small scoring guard” you talk about would make little difference.
I don't consider 1st rd. pick a throw in
They’ll get a top 10 pick
It better not be
Lacob is stupid for not being able to come away with anything. He’s more interested in his political of agenda of making all the fans happy rather than trying to make the team better via trade.
it could mean that
the warriors are still weighing out other options…… lets pray we got other options
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
hopefully.
but our fo seems to be clueless right now with Riley. Especially if we do trade for Murphy by including Brandan.
As I’ve pointed out before, money isn’t magic. The opportunity has to exist for a good trade, and they just don’t come out of nowhere. The Nets had a better offer than us. Much better.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
The Warriors can’t top the offer the Nets made. I don’t know what else to say. Devin Harris + Favors + 2 1st round picks is better than what we can offer.
+1
curry isnt the answer to every teams problems
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
Curry’s a nice piece, but Harris ain’t bad, and Favors has tons and tons of upside. There’s a reason he was drafted #3 and Udoh #6 in a “5 player draft”. I actually think a Curry/Udoh package is fairly similar to a Harris/Favors package, but what sets theirs apart is the 2 1st rounders. We have nothing left to up our offer to that level.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
You guys act like...
…all a GM has to do is like a player, plug him into the trade machine, and BAM! We got him! The other teams have to want what we have…which at this point in time includes NO draft picks to offer and pretty much no bench players of value. Steph is pretty much our only piece that other teams would place a high value on, but we don’t have what it takes to get something better in return for him, so trading away one of our two best players (arguably with the highest potential ceiling) just for the sake of making moves is even more stupid than doing nothing.
by warriorsablaze on Feb 23, 2011 3:55 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Just for the sake of making moves is even more stupid than doing nothing.
Just like the Lee trade, amirite?
"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Monta Ellis
This is another ranty worthless fan post.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 23, 2011 9:10 PM PST reply actions
Yeah i thought this was crap honestly. We had nothing to offer.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 23, 2011 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Curry and Biedrins
were far behind what Jersey had to offer. The draft picks set them ahead.
Eh, I don’t think Biedrins adds any value to that trarde.
by Missing Barry on Feb 23, 2011 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
A big man like Favors is very hard to find, while the Jazz are able to train PG’s to play really well. D. Will was Stockton’s student, literally. He became great largely because of the organization. All the Jazz have to do is find a similarly gifted PG to D. Will who isn’t fantastic per se, like D Will wasn’t, and then make him something special.
I’m not saying he’ll be as good, necessarily, but their prospects of producing another PG at least similar to D.Will aren’t so bad, all things considered. They’ve got draft picks now, too, so they have opportunities to either trade for the guy they want or draft him. Perhaps they’ll offer us Al plus two draft picks for Curry. If they did, I wouldn’t blame them, and I would see our FO being tempted (I wouldn’t be).
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Why can't Devin Harris be good enough for this season or next? He's a good PG.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 23, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
My point was simply that the reason they took Favors over Curry is because a top-tier PG is easier for them to get than a top-tier big.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
It’s worth considering that Sloan is gone. Not sure we can assume any sort of advantage on their part anymore.
by Missing Barry on Feb 24, 2011 7:08 AM PST up reply actions
My Jazz fan buddy says all the assistant coaches have been there for years and know his system inside and out. One of the reasons they do well is because of their assistant coaches. They’re all Sloan’s disciples.
Not saying they necessarily have an equal replacement. I’m sure they don’t, but they will be preaching defense like crazy like they always have.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I think the Jazz did pretty well considering that DW wants out.
It was a nice trade for them.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 24, 2011 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I agree. This was a smart move by the Jazz. They were extremely fortunate to pick up someone like Favors and two draft picks, not to mention a replacement starting PG. Amazingly good trade for them.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
nothing to offer
exactly, and still nothing to offer. we may a have a shot at d will, but like dying from paper cuts, we have leaked away asset after asset (overtrading for d lee), and added poor cap value (overpaying for d lee) . this leads inevitably to magette-ism, the chronic disease that causes one to overpay for what is left rather than for it is worth.
if we had some picks that we blew on nothing, maybe monta plus randolph and some picks gets you d will. maybe not.
but other than stealing d wright and the obvious no-brainer curry draft pick, what shrewd moves that will change the franchise have been made?
by felix botticelli on Feb 23, 2011 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
It really has been a string of mostly bad moves since the JRich trade. I sitll support that trade, but then we messed it up by signing Maggette (big mistake), extending Jack (big mistake), stretching out Harrington’s contract through the series of trades we made (mistake), letting players that may have been useful trade chips get away for nothing (CJ, Morrow, Belinelli come to mind as possible filler guys for a trade that might add a little value), not playing our young guys with big time potential that could become real valuable trade chips (Randolph, Wright), making the sign and trade for David Lee (combination of lost talent/trade chips + money given to Lee)…..
by Missing Barry on Feb 24, 2011 7:11 AM PST up reply actions
This freaking franchise is stupid.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 24, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
Got to remember
that now is not the time to let all these years of Warriors foolishness bring you down.
In fact, this is likely the LAST YEAR of this crap since next year, almost assuredly, there will be a new GM and new head coach.
THEN we will see about Lacob et al.
by supersugarCrisp on Feb 24, 2011 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Lacob could stop the stupidity.
He’s just being part of it.
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 24, 2011 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
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