Recap #48: Golden State Warriors 100, Milwaukee Bucks 94 - Shoot Well, Play Well, Get W
Reverse alley oop off a 70 foot pass from Steph!
Bucks vs Warriors boxscore | Game Thread | Game Day Links
In a game the Warriors had a very good chance of winning, they took care of business and got the W. In the end, it doesn't matter how they got the win. At the end of the season, the W doesn't come with an asterisk saying that the Bucks didn't have Andrew Bogut, Drew Gooden, and played with a still recovering Brandon Jennings. None of the Warriors L's early in the season come with asterisks about injuries. None of the Warriors past 17 years comes with an asterisk about having a crappy owner.
It's about time the Warriors faced and beat a team with more significant injuries than the Warriors have.
Stephen Curry vs Brandon Jennings
In what some had hoped would be a matchup of popular young players, the matchup fizzled. Curry got the upper hand with the better night but it was far from spectacular. It was actually kind of boring with Jennings still recovering from foot surgery. Given Jennings' 38% FG this year (actually improving on his 37% from last year), I'm surprised teams don't just let him shoot more. He fired up some bricks tonight and I was yelling at the tv to let him shoot, Brandon "Let Him Shoot" Jennings sounds a little better than Brandon "He Scored 55 Points In One Game" Jennings. He's like that guy in the pickup game who can't shoot but thinks he can, so you let him and he misses over and over.
Brandon Jennings: 20 minutes, 2 points, 1-6 FG's, 6 assists, 2 rebounds, 2 turnovers
Stephen Curry: 34 minutes, 16 points 6-11 FG's, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 7 turnovers
7 turnovers?!!
Whoa. That's a lot of turnovers. Take care of the ball please. It's the only one you have.
The Ersan Ilyasova Show
The 1st quarter was dominated by Ilyasova. The Bucks scored 22 points in that 1st quarter, Ilyasova had 15 of them! He also had 6 rebounds. He finished with 23 points and 13 rebounds.
With Biedrins matched up on him in the 1st quarter it reminded me a lot of how Don Nelson used Al Harrington as his center to match up against the opposing team's slower center. Biedrins couldn't guard Ilyasova on the perimeter so Ilyasova got nearly every shot he wanted. And he drained them. On the other end, Biedrins was able to use his extra height to grab some offensive boards but he couldn't compete in the scoring department.
A Nice (Shooting) Touch
The Bucks are the 10th best defensive field goal shooting percentage in the league holding opponents to 44.8%. In the first quarter, it looked like the Warriors were going to struggle more against that tough D of the Bucks. They had trouble scoring, going just 7-21 from the field for 18 points.
But then they turned it on.
They beat or tied the Bucks in each of the remaining 3 quarters with point totals of 28, 26, and 28. The first quarter was apparently just a warmup quarter as they shot 32 for 56 in the last 3 quarters, good for 57.1% including 12-24 from 3.
The Warriors finished at 50.6% for the game.

Some Bench Help
Nellie was recently interviewed on KNBR with Ralph and Tom, his first and last radio appearance. Here's what he had to say about the bench:
They're just not very deep. They can't score the ball off the bench like you would like," Nelson said. "They compete and try, but I don't know if they're a playoff team this year. Your team isn't that strong. That's the bottom line.
I don't think there are any Warriors fans who would argue with that assessment. Reggie Williams has been nice but that's about it. Vlad has played better recently but was awful to begin the season. Louis Amundson has never found his groove. Ekpe Udoh is up and down. Brandan Wright is always injured, so he never develops. There's no real backup point guard. Dan Gadzuric is well, Dan Gadzuric. Too bad he didn't get to face his former team (DNP-CD).
But tonight was just a little different than "no bench help at all". Reggie Williams and Vladimir Radmanovic gave them some quality minutes. The starters still played a lot, they had 3 days rest after all.
Radmanovic: 24 minutes, 10 points, 4-7 FG's (2-4 from 3), 2 rebounds, 1 assist, +9
Williams: 21 minutes, 13 points, 5-6 FG's (3-3 from 3), 1 rebound, +6
These aren't great numbers, but they are productive and that's what you want off the bench.
Corey Maggette Returns
...and nobody cares. He had a nice game with 21 points on 8-14 shooting. 0 rebounds.
But the reason for the section on Maggette is my favorite stat about him.
Turnovers: 90
Assists (58) + Steals (14) + Blocks (5) = 77
More turnovers than assists, steals, and blocks combined. That's the Corey we know.
Rebounding
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute eats rebounds for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert. 19 boards, 11 of them offensive.
The Bucks out-rebounded the Warriors 49 to 36 including 20 offensive boards. With the Warriors hot shooting, that's how the Bucks stayed in the game. Can someone please box out?
44 minutes, 24 points, 10-22 FG's, 5 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 turnovers
It was a nice bounce back game from Ellis. He stunk it up with 2 points against the Jazz (but they won anyway), didn't make the All-Star team (didn't deserve to) and comes back with a great effort.
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They’re just not very deep. They can’t score the ball off the bench like you would like," Nelson said. "They compete and try, but I don’t know if they’re a playoff team this year. Your team isn’t that strong. That’s the bottom line.
What sucks about this statement is we are two ‘minor’ things away from being a playoff team. Andris returning to form. And a legitimate 6th man.
Not saying that team will go deep, but that team would have atleast 4 more wins now.
The difference between 21-27 and 25-23 and being 0.5 behind portland.
Andris has just about rounded into form, but bench scoring is an issue.
There’s a very small amount of regret felt when thinking of the Maggette trade this past offseason.
Our main issue is defense. We can’t play it and I don’t know if its the scheme or the players. But something is gonna have to change if we wanna make the playoffs
by myk on Feb 4, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Andris would be a perfect back-up Center
If we can get a solid center in here (like a Chris Kamen) and make Goose our back-up, that would do a lot for this team.
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Ew, Kaman is garbage. Possibly the slowest player in the league. No thanks.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Well, I’d rather have the other center in LA, DeAndre Jordan but I doubt they’ll get rid of him. There aren’t a lot of decent centers to choose from so I don’t think Kaman would be that bad. Who would you rather have, realistically?
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Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130481653681 in Ebay!
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There aren’t a lot of decent centers to choose from so I don’t think Kaman would be that bad. Who would you rather have, realistically?
Realistically, there aren’t any “solid centers” to be had unless you’re willing to give up a whole, whole lot. Realistically, expecting to get an upgrade at C at this point in the year is not going to happen.
He is that bad. Kaman ain’t a ‘solid center’. He’s a moderate rebounder (averagish for a center) who has been abysmal, terrible, Troy Hudson-like in his shooting efficiency but puts up shots like he was actually a good player. Even with all the problems Biedrins has had this year, starting Kaman ahead of him would almost certainly make us lose more games. You cannot have a center who is merely an average rebounder with sub .500 TS% who puts up 16shots per 36 and expect to do well with it. Even if his shooting improves to what it was last year and we’re just looking at a small sample size for the absolutely putrid start he’s had this year, he’s still a major liability if your goal is to win. (If your goal is to suck, Kaman’s your man!)
Wanting Kaman to start over Andris is a significant ‘grass is greener’ issue. But Kaman isn’t green grass. Andris may not be the most magnificent front yard, but Kaman is a muddy patch of dirt in comparison.
Um... I thought you were talking about Biedrins.
Realistically, there aren’t any "solid centers" to be had unless you’re willing to give up a whole, whole lot. Realistically, expecting to get an upgrade at C at this point in the year is not going to happen.
Solid centers would include Kaman unless you’re worried about injury. He was an all-star in 2009 – 10 season.
He is that bad. Kaman ain’t a ‘solid center’. He’s a moderate rebounder (averagish for a center) who has been abysmal, terrible, Troy Hudson-like in his shooting efficiency but puts up shots like he was actually a good player. Even with all the problems Biedrins has had this year, starting Kaman ahead of him would almost certainly make us lose more games. You cannot have a center who is merely an average rebounder with sub .500 TS% who puts up 16shots per 36 and expect to do well with it. Even if his shooting improves to what it was last year and we’re just looking at a small sample size for the absolutely putrid start he’s had this year, he’s still a major liability if your goal is to win. (If your goal is to suck, Kaman’s your man!)
Wanting Kaman to start over Andris is a significant ‘grass is greener’ issue. But Kaman isn’t green grass. Andris may not be the most magnificent front yard, but Kaman is a muddy patch of dirt in comparison.
Where do you get your stats? Kaman is a better rebounder than Biedrins and better at blocking out people; He’s more aggressive than Biedrins. AB pads his rebounding with offensive boards. Kaman gets defensive boards which we need in the 4Q.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Where do you get your stats?
From reality.
Kaman is a better rebounder than Biedrins
No. No he isn’t by any measure of rebounding that involves getting rebounds. Andris gets more rebounds per minute and has a higher rebound percentage. This is true on both offensive and defensive end of the floor, though on defensive glass it’s very close this year.
AB pads his rebounding with offensive boards. Kaman gets defensive boards which we need in the 4Q.
This notion of “padding” rebounds with offensive boards is positively ridiculous. Offensive boards are valuable, as valuable as defensive boards. They mean that the opposition didn’t get a defensive rebound. There’s not way to “pad” this in any sense that doesn’t actually help your team unless you purposely bounce the ball off the backboard to get an offensive rebound. Since this isn’t happening, your notion that his rebounding is “padded” is just some silly pointless protest constructed to support a point you wanted to make that has no justification. Biedrins gets more offensive rebounds than Kaman doesn’t get as many offensive rebounds, and that’s a shortcoming when comparing the two.
And Kaman is not better at getting defensive rebounds either.
by jae on Feb 5, 2011 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Who would you rather have, realistically?
Than Kaman? A guy named Andris Biedrins.
by Missing Barry on Feb 5, 2011 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
Chris Kaman is quick and runs the court well enough.
He’s not even close to being the slowest player in the league. 3.37 3/4 court sprint and 11.33 lane agility in pre-draft measurements. DeAndre Jordan was 3.27 3/4 court sprint and 12.3 lane agility.
In addition, Kaman has two years left on his K compared to four years for Biedrins. Get it done Larry.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Proving only once again that the All-Star game is a popularity contest where the easiest way to be rewarded is by increasing your ppg, even if you do it with below average efficiency. If there were some degree of difficulty rating where “All-Stars” somehow got more than 2 points for every 2 point shot they made, it would mean something, but all it really means is that the powers selecting saw his ppg total and ran with it, ignoring below average shooting efficiency.
by jae on Feb 5, 2011 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, those measurements were taken from a long time ago, and a few injuries ago. Additionally, I’ve never been a fan of combine numbers in testing for athleticism. The minimal number of drills they do aren’t very good simulations of actual basketball movement.
by Missing Barry on Feb 5, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Andris has just about rounded into form
And Ersan ate him for lunch. Are you kidding me?!? I’ve been a Biedrins supporter, but damn, every center in the league seems to out produce him head-to-head.
Please help me understand, advanced stat guys, how can we keep defending him? I want him to be our guy in the middle, where an efficient 10/10 with decent shotblocking seems to be what we need. Thing is, every opposing center appears to put up a career night against him!
I’d be interested to see the breakdown of who Biedrins actually dominates, intimidates, or even significantly pesters. Who performs poorly against our center?
Please help me with this so I can keep supporting him. I really don’t want to jump on a bandwagon against him, because I genuinely want him to be our guy. His numbers can seem respectable.
by Uwe Blog on Feb 5, 2011 1:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Ersan shot jumpers .... it was a team defense issue.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 5, 2011 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think we're "two minor" things away from a playoff team
We still lack Defense and our rebounding is still highly inconsistent. I think our team woes run more than what you mentioned. However, I do agree with those 2 things needed to improve the team.
"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis
I've commented on this before but...
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011GSW2.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011POR2.HTM
Compare…the bench is probably the biggest thing separating us from a team like Portland.
We have decent bench pieces. But they aren't used correctly.
Reggie could back up the 1 and 2. Vlad backs up the 3, and is small ball 4 if needed. Wright, Amundson, and Udoh switch off based on game matchups as the backup bigs….
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
That only works if Reggie plays the way he has the last two games. For most of this season he has been nowhere to be found. Also, given our starting lineups inability to play defense or rebound, I’d prefer a 6th man who had those skills.
Vlad backing up anything just isn’t good enough. I’m sorry, I still think he sucks. He makes so many dumb mistakes that he negates any positive he brings to the table.
Amundson needs to be used a shock troop. He should get 10 minutes a night. Relying on him as the first big is a bad idea.
BWright certainly deserves more of an opportunity than Smart has given him. It’s shameful, really.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Reggie has been way more consistent than you're giving him credit for
"I have a picture of him, I look at it everyday on my computer screen." (Jim Harbaugh referring to Bill Walsh)
Nice win
Glad to see Monta play a hell of a lot better (still some room for improvement, but it was refreshing seeming him attack like the beginning of the year again)
Glad to see Curry play well (aside from those 7 turnovers, most of which were horrendous and unforced, but otherwise he did well, especially in the fourth)
Glad to see Lee continuing his hot streak from the mid-range along with impressive low post moves.
Glad to see Biedrins remain active on both ends. He needs to soften his touch in the low post and needs to stop acting like a PG when the opposition attacks the rim (trying to take a charge/standing with arms straight up) but he’s in the right direction.
Glad to see Dorell Wright (aside from a couple forced and unnecessary jumpers) continue to be the Dorell Wright no one expected coming into the season.
Glad to see Reggie Williams getting back into the rhythm that earned him this extension and cost us Anthony Morrow (this eases the pain, but I will never forgive anyone who had a hand in losing AMMO)
Glad (??) to see Vlad Rad continuing to contribute off the bench in big moments. This time, aside from the usual dosage of jumpers and How-The-Hell-Is-He-Capable-Of-That drives, he played some surprisingly great defense (something I don’t associate with the Warriors all that often) down the stretch and helped us pull this out.
NOT Glad to see Keith Smart continuing his awful rotations and coaching techniques. His inbounds plays and plays out of timeouts are extremely effective and fun to watch, but his “chess-match” decisions against the opposing coach are always puzzling (Ekpe and Brandan? 44 mins for Ellis? 34 mins for Curry?), but I guess we just need to live with it for the time being.
Overall, though, it was a good win, now it’s time to move on to the next one.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
by steffun4tw on Feb 4, 2011 9:32 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Acie Law out. The only other guards were Reggie and … Charlie Bell, who you may not have even noticed since he played so invisibly.
lol i saw someone with bell's number running around
and thinking “who the hell is this guy” until i actually remembered charlie bell still plays for us haha. As for minutes, he should have given Monta and Steph equal minutes, which under the injury circumstances, should have been about 39 minutes each, which is slightly more than what I’m comfortable with (in terms of future preservation) but is acceptable for this night.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
This was not a good game. A win may be a win, but getting dominated like that on the glass against a team without a center is inexcusable. Lee should have to run laps or something.
Did anyone else notice that, once again, Smart adjusted to what the other coach was doing rather than the other way around? He played “small” rather than using our real bigs to give us a size advantage. If we’d been even in rebounding, this game would’ve been a cakewalk.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
This was not a good game. A win may be a win, but getting dominated like that on the glass against a team without a center is inexcusable
for sure. If the bucks had a little better luck and had taken care of the ball better at the end they’d have stole it .
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
Fortunately they have Corey “I-just-go-out-and-do-my-thing- (which includes dropping a pass and then dribbling off my foot into the backcourt at the key moment in the game) and-don’t-really-pay-attention-to-anything-else” Maggette.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Fortunately they have Corey "I-just-go-out-and-do-my-thing- (which includes dropping a pass and then dribbling off my foot into the backcourt at the key moment in the game) and-don’t-really-pay-attention-to-anything-else" Maggette.
Yeah, I wonder why they didn’t play Boykins? I watched them beat Sacramento in a similar game and he came in with some great ball handling and shooting in the last few minutes.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
Some folks are complaining “Why is Biedrins guarding Ilyasova??!!! He’s too big to matchup with the Bucks playing smallball. Damn you Smart you’re an idiot” and others are saying “Why did you go small to match the Bucks? All you do is react to the opposing coach’s strategy”. Can’t please everyone…
That said, this rebounding thing needs to be figured out quick. Has anyone tried to do a breakdown on which positions are getting disproportionate amounts of rebounds vs. the warriors?
Yeah, the team playing smallball should not be winning on the boards….
by Missing Barry on Feb 5, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
We shot well, that's why we won. Other than that, both our offense and defense were pretty awful.
I don’t know if it’s the coaching, or the players, but our defensive rotations are not very good. There are stretches in games where we play good D, but I can’t think of one game where we played solid D for more than 30 minutes.
The last few games Monta has imerged as the PG. He has been creating for others way more than Steph, and more importantly he is looking to get Steph involved by finding him for good open shots, more so than the other way around. Also he is not dishing out discustingly horrid TO’s at an alarming rate. Steph had at least 3 passes that were so well placed to the defenders chest that I was wondering if he was just trying to keep it a close game. Don’t want to rag on Steph too much, love dude, I just think he looks to make the “oo-aa” pass too often.
Before the season started CWeb had stated that Monta should be the PG and Curry should be the spot up shooting SG. That would be a better stratedgy if we were focused purely on winning for this season. But in terms of long term growth, we need to bring Steph along as a PG as well. Good job by the coaching staff to keep both guards as primary playmakers until Curry is able to drop double digit assists on a regular basis.
I said before the game that I sort of wish Maggette wasn’t traded for Gadz and Bell, despite his awful contract. He reinforced that sentiment in the 4th quarter. Corey’s 20ppg off the bench for us would be HUGE this year. We’d probably be a game or 2 within .500 by now.
Overall, a win is a win, and you take it with a smile. But this one is a bit of a forced smile. We have to play much, much, much better basketball in every way if we hope to compete with Chicago on Saturday. If it wasn’t for injuries to DWill, Jennings, and Bogut, we very well could’ve beeen looking 6 losses in a row. A streak that would’ve started with a loss at Staples against the Clipps, which is the same team and venue that Chicago got their most recent victory in.
Saturday is a must win. Despite the odds, we absolutely have to win if we have any chance of getting back in the 8th spot hunt.
Nice post. Curry's not ready yet.
He needs to step up more in crunch time (last night he did) and Curry is a shoot first PG. I can’t blame him though because his game is still developing. Would like to see him get more assists. Monta and him are close to even.
And I agree about needing a guy in the front court who can score and get to the free throw line, but not Corey.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
he needs to step it up in crunch time?
He has the most points in the 4th quarter on our team, with the best FG%…
You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk
Have you ever seen Monta dribble? I mean he's dribbling from his chin!
Monta Ellis is not a PG. Him playing pg is not winning basketball but more like lottery top three pick basketball. When Monta has the ball movement stops which alows defense to relax. Playing Monta at pg is like playing Maggette at PF.
Monta led the all-snubbed team.
I would replace Yao and Tim Duncan with Monta Ellis and Kevin Love. We need Mo-Love on the West All-Star team!
Second, Andris Biedrins needs to go. The Warriors are the worst rebounding team in the league in terms of rebounding differential. Both AB and DLee pad their rebounding stats with offensive boards. At least, Lee grabs defensive boards during crunch time.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Andris doesn’t get to play during “crunch time” because our coach is a coward. Also, Andris outrebounded Lee last night, in fewer minutes.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Sorry.
AB isn’t a crunch time guy when one needs scoring or defensive boards. He should be outrebounding DLee, but Lee is a fighter. I rather have a guy like Kendrick Perkins who can clog the middle and get the defensive boards that the Warriors need during crunch time.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
I am confused by your statements
Andris Biedrins’ DRB% is 25% (he grabs 1/4 of available defensive rebounds while on court)
David Lee’s DRB% is 20.9%
Biedrins averages 10 less minutes a game than DLee, and rarely ever sees the court in the 4th Quarter. These last couple of games Biedrins had been very active, grabbing boards, getting blocks. He isn’t some scoring machine, and he probably never will be. Doesn’t mean he can’t contribute. Even with a pretty bad season and a down year, he’s still the best rebounder and one of the better post defenders we have.
I wouldn’t mind Perkin’s here, but you don’t just let Beans go for kittens and a reach around. Andris is the only NBA starting quality Center we have on roster.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Feb 4, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Andris Biedrins’ DRB% is 25% (he grabs 1/4 of available defensive rebounds while on court)
haha, since we routinely get grossly out re-bounded what does that mean? No one is helping him out, or no one on our team is giving him any competition for them??
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2011 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
Biedrins simply isn't on the floor very much for one, plus after he came back from injury wasn't even rebounding well himself. Starting to get back to form this week.
Then earlier David Lee got injured, and played with a zombie bite. I haven’t particularly looked out for this myself, but people have also complained about lack of boxing out from various positions.
Then putting Udoh/Vlad out there isn’t much for rebounding either.
Plus Monta and Curry haven’t been rebounding as well as they have in the past.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Feb 4, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
haha, since we routinely get grossly out re-bounded what does that mean? No one is helping him out, or no one on our team is giving him any competition for them??
It means that no one is helping him out.
by jae on Feb 4, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
Duncan is the anchor of a fantastic basketball team. He is better than any Warrior, and an all time great. An easy first ballot hall of famer, still playing strong ball and leading his team to another excellent season. I’d trade our two best guys for him in a heartbeat (if he had multiple seasons on his contract). He is not Vince Carter, TMac, or Iverson getting in solely on the strength of his charisma. He’s about as charming as a mud puddle. He is in because he is a true all star.
by Uwe Blog on Feb 5, 2011 1:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Pretty much this.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 5, 2011 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
off topic
during my morning throne reading I opened up the sports section to find no other then don magic won nelson gave a interview to knbr.
he said that the warriors roster, that he helped build, was flawed and that curry and ellis can not win consistently together.
he also said that keith and riley are the man.
is anyone else glad this terd is no longer coach of the warriors?
if the roster is flawed then why did he help build it and how can he praise riley and keith as they also assisted in building this roster..
Really I am hoping that this offseason keithy and riley will also be gone.
"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin
Can’t believe Monta did not make the All Star team. He is one of the top 5 scorers in the league and his team is up and coming. They chose an overrated stat stuffing PG in Russell Westbrook instead. Shame.
by Jeffrey Thompson on Feb 4, 2011 10:52 AM PST reply actions
The real shame is Manu Ginobili
Shoots worse than Monta from everywhere on the court, scores less than Monta, assists less than Monta, what exactly does he do better? Oh right, he uses his big stupid nose to fall over every time he takes a shot and refs fall for it.
I guess the NBA had to make sure the best team in the West had at least 2 all stars. Honestly, that team is fantastic, but they have 0 all-stars in my book. And that’s fine. They play amazing team basketball and are very well coached, but no one on that team is having an all-star year.
WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!
by true torture on Feb 4, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Shoots worse than Monta from everywhere on the court, scores less than Monta, assists less than Monta, what exactly does he do better? Oh right, he uses his big stupid nose to fall over every time he takes a shot and refs fall for it.
You realize Manu’s EFG% (before free throws come into play) is .515, while Monta’s is .497. It appears before free throws, he’s a much better scorer, then you add he’s way better at converting and getting to the foul line, then your point appears to be …wrong.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
not to mention the fact
that he’s been the best player on a 41-8 team, has willed them to victory in clutch situations, and been an overall leader on the best team in the league.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
Duncan's their best player
But yeah, Manu is best SG in NBA and for my money, always been one of the players I’d prefer to have ball in his hands in the end of the game.
I might agree with you.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2011 11:11 PM PST up reply actions
what exactly does he do better?
Scores more efficiently on very similar scoring volume per minute, hands out more assists per minute, turns the ball over less per minute, rebounds much better, all things that significantly help teams win. Manu is a better player than Monta. It’s not even close. Monta plays more minutes and is flashier, but he’s not even close to being as productive a player, not if you care about winning games.
by jae on Feb 4, 2011 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like how minutes aren't valuable anymore
1) manu wont be even close to his tov and efficiency stats now in per 36 if he played as much as monta
2) playing less minutes equals a worse player backing you up having more minutes..
3) his tov % is higher
4) manu plays in the best offensive system in nba
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Feb 4, 2011 2:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
2) playing less minutes equals a worse player backing you up having more minutes..
I would love to see Warriors get a legitimate 3rd guard to eat 20-25 minutes a game (with little drop off) and then we could see Monta and Curry at about 36 per. Someone like, I dunno… george hill?
I'd love to have that too
and Pops and Duncan and Parker.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
I'd prefer Manu over Parker
But that’s just me
yep. I think we could win it all….
Curry- 36 mins
Monta- 36 mins
Dorell- 32 mins
Lee- 36 mins
Duncan- 32 mins
—
Manu- 36 mins
Biedrins- 24 mins
Vlad- 10 mins
Pop- heart attack
And before anyone says it
I only put Manu on bench cause he’s played majority of his career as the ‘faux-6th man’. It’s irrelevant anyway cause you know he’s closing out every quarter for you.
manu wont be even close to his tov and efficiency stats now in per 36 if he played as much as monta
You support this only with your own assertion that it is so. There is absolutely nothing that supports your assertion. Blanket, unsubstantiated assertions based on whatever conventional wisdom rattles around in your brain are worthless when it comes to reality.
his tov % is higher
It’s slightly higher, if you go by the TOV% as reported at Basketball-reference. This statistic has some value, but it also has a critical flaw, especially when looking at the rather small difference
TOV% is turnovers as a function of usage. If you fire up more shots, your turnover percentage goes down even if they are terrible shots. High volume chuckers get a benefit in lowering their TOV% though this doesn’t equate to an advantage for their team. It’s not a worthwhile comparison in this case.
MInutes are important, but playing more minutes does not necessarily mean better player. This is why concepts like value over replacement are important, as they give an idea of how much a player helps relative to who is likely playing when he rests. Manu still comes out ahead. He’s just a better, more productive player. I as sorry you have such a hard time dealing with this reality.
by jae on Feb 4, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
No it’s pretty obvious. You get tired more on offense, on defense and running around. You play with different line-ups, you finish quarters. You don’t get more efficient by playing more.
High volume chuckers shooting 50% eFG? Ah ok. Thanks for letting me know. How about Monta is just better at taking care of the ball? And how about Manu plays in the best offensive system in NBA for the best coach in NBA? and how about he has HOF’ers who don’t commit silly fouls and other veterans around him who play defense and do things you are supposed to do.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
No it’s pretty obvious
You may think it’s pretty obvious, but the real data don’t support this. Real data is more important than what you reason to be ‘obvious.’ Real data suggest that playing more minutes does not have a profound effect in lowering efficiency or increasing turnovers.
Rest of your diatribe ignored. It does not appear that you are prepared to think critically about things or deal with evidence.
Manu plays on a better team. He’s also a better player. It’s not really close.
by jae on Feb 4, 2011 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
of course not
where is your data, mr. expert?
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Some things are not resolved by looking at stats
I know I just made a semi-dumb comment, but it also seems that some people watch games with a statistical bias and what you actually see on the court gets filtered bizarrely. I’m not going to argue Monta is better than Ginobili, but I will argue that Monta is more valuable to the Warriors (entertainment value, etc.) than you and your steady stream of odd stats suggest.
Thats only if you care about entertainment value
Frankly I just want to win games, and Ginoobili would help more than Monta at accomplishing that.
steady stream of odd stats
You mean “scores more efficiently on very similar scoring volume per minute, hands out more assists per minute, turns the ball over less per minute, rebounds much better”?
Pretty arcane stuff, I know.
When most people talk about a player being valuable, they tend to mean something more than “entertainment value, etc.” As eldingo notes, there’s a fair amount of value in, you know, winning games.
There will be no extra point!
...
And how about Manu plays in the best offensive system in NBA
…Manu is a crucial part of the best (curently) offensive system in the NBA!
you know who is more crucial?
Pops.
and there is no best player on Spurs. They are all about as good and important.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
and there is no best player on Spurs. They are all about as good and important.
Tim Duncan is better and more important than Matt Bonner.
by jae on Feb 5, 2011 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
This is just absurd. I don’t even know where to start.
by Missing Barry on Feb 5, 2011 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
You’re really going to criticize Russell Westbrook for being an overrated stat stuffer? Please explain to me in what way Westbrook is stuffing his stats while also explaining the same logic, applied to Monta, concludes Monta is not stuffing his stats?
by Missing Barry on Feb 5, 2011 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
nice game by the Dubz
monta looks pissed
steph looks pissed
UFC TITLE FIGHT = MONTA VS STEPH
VladRad finally looks like a baller instead of a scrub
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
What time is it? IT'S SHOWTIME BABY!!!1
DORRELL WRIGHT
this guy is a friggin baller….his game has grown leaps and bounds since i first saw him in a Dubz uni….he has raw talent and a strong mind willing to do what it takes to get better.
the man has been a pleasure to watch….u can see the effort and passion every play, taking over the leadership
Trade Sabean/jk...Overthrow the Ydorks...
What time is it? IT'S SHOWTIME BABY!!!1
I really don't get why when Biedrins plays well
we bench him in the 4th because of some fear our coach has that he will be fouled, even though it hasn’t happened once this year. There’s no reason he should have only played 27 minutes considering he was the only one rebounding against the bucks. Oh well!
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2011 11:26 AM PST reply actions
If we had a SMART coach
we’d be 4-5 games better, I swear.
WHAT!??!?!?!?!?!?!
by true torture on Feb 4, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
I agree.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
What is our identity?
Look, I always love a win, but this was a pretty humbling one. The main thing I noticed is that Smart seems more and more lost every game. A lot of Curry’s turnovers felt to me like a guy who didn’t really know what the possession was going to develop into.
I don’t understand why they don’t just run the pick and roll down everyone’s throat on every single possession, a la Stockton/Malone. They have the perfect personnel for it, and that strange mix of guys isn’t really great for any other identity. Look at the prime Jazz team, and they were virtually the same (though obviously a level up in talent). Great mid-range shooting PF who can dive to the hoop, PG who can dish and shoot high percentage from anywhere, and a SG (Hornacek) who’s small but will make collapsing defenses pay. Even the athletic SF who fills in the gaps. Everyone talks about how they need to play high-octane style, but wouldn’t a grind-it-out offense better hide their defensive weaknesses? Utah was considered a tough defense and they had two tiny guards who athletically pale compared to Monta and Curry.
by ExpiringContract on Feb 4, 2011 12:05 PM PST reply actions
good days or bad days
our team’s success is limited by the failure of Smart.
come on warriors, make us believe again!
Haters Gonna Hate
by Wreckonized on Feb 4, 2011 12:06 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
i didnt see too much to be happy about this game.
if i had just watched the game without the score showing, i woulda assumed that the warriors were losing. we were making some awful mistakes. if anything, i was a pretty big fan scott skiles and what he was doing with eryan ilysanova (spelled wrong), delfino, and mbah a moute. i think if they had a healthy bogut and brandon jennings there was noway we could win this game.
As every game goes by, i wish we could have seen Nellie coach this year. It would have been interesting to say the least.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 4, 2011 12:22 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
we’d be at the least fighting for a playoff spot right now
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
We are winning only because our diffense is a little bit better.
We are winning because we are trying to use bigs better With Nelson we would be right where he left us
I've felt that way since we fired him
by Uwe Blog on Feb 5, 2011 2:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The one positive takeaway from this game is that we won without anybody playing particularly well.
When I first saw Monta as WW, I was annoyed – it struck me as a classic case of giving credit to a player for making some crunch shots late, when those crunch shots wouldn’t have been necessarily if that player had played better early.
But really – you can’t give it to Curry when he turns it over faster than Superman trying to make pastries, or Lee when he doesn’t rebound particularly well. Maybe Dorell? Not very spectacular. Maybe Reggie – who only played for 21 minutes?
I do wonder what this team would look like if we got everybody playing reasonably well at the same time.
Maybe Dorell?
yeah, that halfcourt allyooop reverse dunk was the play of the month.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2011 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Right time for Stephen Curry amazing commercial good win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijYFF6c_rdk
Win Or Lose Warriors For Life.........
it was the footage i thought
still cool though
Don't Trade Monta
Bush is on Fire!
Huff likes it raw
by JohnnyDangerously on Feb 4, 2011 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
Wha?
When Bell hits iron it’s a good night.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Feb 4, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
Right Now: Jeremy Lin > Acie Law > Charlie Bell
Serious. Lin only needs to make 1/4 of his d-league stats with the big club to be superior.
that's not as easy as it sounds
when u consider the discrepancy in the talent level of the competition, as well as his playing time
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
Serious. Lin only needs to make 1/4 of his d-league stats with the big club to be superior.
sadly the exchange rate is 5:1 though. :>)
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2011 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
I want to see Lin's progression translated into the NBA
Lin = Law without the confidence when he got sent down. I want to see that baller that lead Harvard!
by Monta THE Boss on Feb 5, 2011 1:41 AM PST up reply actions
Nelson’s comments
Isn’t it weird that the guy who played Magette at PF says that Monta cannot play SG? Isn’t it weird that the guy who’s team never played defense is concerned about Monta and Steph playing defense?
But what is logical, it’s the fact that he calls this roster flawed, because it has too many bigs. It is flawed, because it does not have any "prima-ballerina" characters like Baron or Captain Jack. So this flawed roster should bring 10 more wins this year, comparing to the year Nelson been coaching. So, it may be logical that Smart is "the man".
Isn’t it weird that the guy who played Magette at PF says that Monta cannot play SG?
not weird at all, Nellie has been sayin that ever since he got here.
that’s why he won so many games cause he knows this stuff.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 4, 2011 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah it is
Also the same guy who says Acie Law is a natural SF
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
Acie is a tweener 3/4
"I have a picture of him, I look at it everyday on my computer screen." (Jim Harbaugh referring to Bill Walsh)
What's surprised me most this season is the rebounding
Coming into this season, I assumed Lee+Beans would mean Warriors would actually have the rebounding edge in many games. The Warrior’s rebounding has been what’s disappointed me most this season.
This game pretty much symbolizes how the Warriors season. Getting badly out-rebounded, struggle on defense & rely on overcoming everything w/ offense.
===
Let Beans get fouled !! If Beans can avoid foul trouble he needs more minutes. If Smart is so scared of Beans FT shooting then at least wait till opponent is in the penalty before yanking Biedrins out for the rest of the game.
Something really needs to change. If Biedrin isn’t going to get 30 minutes a game (when he avoids foul trouble) then either he needs to be moved or coach needs to be changed. That salary should be on the floor for more minutes.
Let Beans get fouled !!
yeah, if he’s afraid of shooting them just tell him to decline the attempts and give the other team the ball, at least he’d be going to the hoop and drawing fouls on their big men. He needs to get going one way or the other.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 5, 2011 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
I’ve been disappointed by the rebounding, as well.
by Missing Barry on Feb 5, 2011 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Lee has rebounded less well than could reasonably be expected ...
… but beyond that I think our rebounding problems are largely a function of playing a bunch of players who are bad rebounders.
We have about 36 minutes a game worth of big-man minutes that aren’t being filled by Biedrins or Lee. Too many of those minutes have been filled by Ranmanovic and Udoh, who just aren’t adequate rebounders for a big man. Gadzuric and Amundson would do a better job rebounding in those minutes, but there have been other reasons not to play them.
Also worth pointing out that we have an epically bad rebounding two-guard. Monta’s defenders like to say that guard rebounding doesn’t matter, but really, this team’s rebounding problems are a function of our backup bigs and Monta.
Yeah true.
Lee and Biedrins beat most frontcourts. Steph and Dorell are average. Monta, Vlad, and Udoh get demolished.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 5, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Lee and Biedrins beat most frontcourts.
I take the 82games position breakdown with a bit of skepticism. I’m not sure quite how they determine who was playing what position in some lineups, and indeed, some of that is artificial. The game isn’t really 5 1on1 matchups. That said, their breakdown of position-by-position matchups shows that the Warriors have been outrebounded at every position on the court this year.
The biggest deficits have come at PF and SG (1.7 rebound deficit a game for either), which should surprise no one at all. Each of those positions surrenders, on average, about twice as much as SF, PG and C are falling behind combined. Those three positions combine to fall only a board behind opposition.
There’s some curious things though looking at the player by player breakdown. Andris has, on average, outrebounded his opposite number. The only other players on team for whom that’s been generally true were Carney at SF (though he played in many small ball lineups where he was the defacto 4 and got killed there) and Gadz, who generally outrebounds his opposite. When you’ve got three players who have been rebounding assets, one of whom isn’t on the team and the other is a very limited PT player, you’re not going to do well on the boards.
How this has happened seems to be a bit more complex. Lee has been fairly average for a big this year, but he’s usually beat on the boards by his opposite number at either C or PF (he’s split his time fairly evenly between the two). There’s more rebounds grabbed in the front court when he’s in the game, and he’s not getting enough of them. It’s especially bad when he’s at center, but he’s not helped the rebound differential at PF either for whatever reason. This is a new pattern for him. He was a better rebounder in NY in both absolute numbers and relative to his opposite number. Amundson shows almost exactly the same pattern as Lee. (Likewise, he usually outrebounded the opposition’s 4 last year). We all suspected that Radmanovic was getting killed at PF but it’s not been as bad as Lee’s been beat. Radmanovic may not get many rebounds, but his opposite number isn’t doing much better. If I had to hazard a guess, I’d say it seems that when Vlad doesn’t get a rebound, it’s the opposing center who takes it away from him and the opposing PF.
Udoh’s been terrible. Terrible isn’t really a good description of how bad he’s been on the glass actually. I think we may need a new word for how pathetic his rebounding has been.
by jae on Feb 5, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions

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