Recap #49: Chicago Bulls 90, Golden State Warriors 101 - 4th Quarter Dominance
by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 6, 2011 10:55 AM PST
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We should all applaud this Warriors effort.
Final Boxscore | Preview/GameThread (1200+ comments) | Game Day Links
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Q: What happens when the Warriors are firing on all cylinders in the clutch?
A: 4th QUARTER DOMINANCE.
Jump for the 49th recap of the season!
In the 4th quarter the Warriors were ON FIRE!
LOT 2 LIKE
There was a LOT to like about this game if you're a Warriors fan, particularly about their 4th quarter performance where they clobbered the Bulls with red hot shooting and stifling defense resulting in a 28-18 finish. Here's just some of the many hits:
- The thing to remember about this excellent outing from Stephen Curry was his complete destruction of the Bulls full court press defense in the 4th. I know he's had his struggles with low assist totals and an unimpressive assist to turnover ration, but he sure looked like a mighty fine point guard tonight. Coach Tom Thibodeau's pressure D didn't faze Steph one bit. Stef-fun made all the right passes and even found Dorell Wright wide open for a breakaway dunk that sealed the game. Maybe the Bulls didn't execute Thimbodeau's plan correctly, but it just didn't work. Curry outplayed MVP candidate Derrick Rose tonight and walked away with only 1 foul- that's a BIG deal.
- Credit the Warriors defensive game plan and execution for Rose's NINE turnovers tonight. Take a look at his post game comments in my man IQofaWarriors' always fabulous Game Day Links package. Former Don Nelson Defensive Coordinator Coach Smart put together a nice defensive scheme. Curry and his help defenders did the rest.
- I do wish he shared the ball more with Curry, David Lee, and Dorell Wright more, but it's impressive that when Monta Ellis drops 33 points we aren't really that surprised anymore. Monta was hot in the 4th and his midrange J was falling. The 10 for 10 stroke from the charity stripe was money, but I am most impressed that Monta kept his turnovers down to only 2. When Curry and Ellis have 13 assists to 4 turnovers the Warriors are going to win a lot of games.
- Andris Biedrins is having (yet another) a poor season that is proving how big of a mistake Chris Mullin made when he foolishly inked him to that ludicrous and premature $62 million dollar extension (including incentives) when he received ZERO interest as a restricted free agent in the summer of 2008. Biedrins has picked it up as of late though and the Warriors don't win this game without his 4th quarter rebounding. Sure the Bulls starting big man Joakim Noah was out, but it's always a huge plus when Biedrins can give them something at the 5 spot.
- Ekpe Udoh's defense continues to impress. He stuck with Carlos Boozer and forced him into some very tough shots. Boozer made a few of them anyway (he's that good), but Udoh does have a future in this league with his defense. It's unlikely he'll ever be a good rebounder in this league (1 rebound in 14 minutes ain't going to cut it), but if he can break out his Windex and at least get to slightly below average levels on the glass he can be very good.
- Dorell Wright and Luol Deng had very similar stat lines tonight. Both had nice nights, but look at Deng's escalating salary. Now look at Wright's bargain deal. Larry Riley and the Warriors got this one Wright (put intended). Of course, Mullin and the cheapo Chis Cohan regime got their (Brandan) Wright wrong, but that's another story for another time. (By the way listen to the full Don Nelson interview from last week with The Razor and Mr. T- WE BELIEVE was broken up because of finances and stupidity from the GM- read Mullin/ Robert Rowell- spot. Don't blame Nellie.)
- I hate to pick on a former NBA D-League call-up who worked his way up and had some nice outings for the Warriors, but I can't say I really miss C.J. Watson's game. It's hard to find a more defensively challenged wing in this league. If Watson doesn't pick the passing lane, he's practically a turnstile on defense. Watson got owned by Curry and Monta all night long.
I'll spell it out: Stephen Curry needs more shots and the Warriors offense needs to flow through him- not Monta Ellis. There's something wrong when Curry is +14, 50% from 3 point land, 60% overall, can't miss a free throw this entire season (maybe he should be teaching Andris Biedrins how to shoot them), but gets 7 less shots than the Warriors supposed MVP who winds up +2 on the night. Let's not forget Curry had 8 dimes and only 2 turnovers against one of the best defenses in the league.
Recognize the franchise.
============================================================
GSoM Night 10
Don't sleep! Can you sink a 3 pointer on the Roaracle court like Stephen Curry? Join all your GSoM friends and watch the Dubs square off against Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and the Oklahoma City Thunder!
Plus get this jazzy T!
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Bulls 90 Warriors 101*
we won by 11, not 10!
"Be an Optimist Prime, not a Negatron!" - Some random guy on google
Thank you kind sir.
Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | BayArea.SBNation.com | SBNation.com
by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 6, 2011 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
It was a good win ....
why bring the whole monta/curry thing into it.
by Belinelli's the savior on Feb 6, 2011 11:05 AM PST reply actions 14 recs
Totally Agree
Really unnecessary to bring the whole Monta/Curry debate thing up after a huge TEAM win vs a great bulls team. Also a win, won with DEFENSE, is a great feeling. Sigh, instead this recap thread will probably turn into a war between Monta and Curry fanboys
by Crashbranman on Feb 6, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Why not?
1, it has to do with the Warriros and 2, it still a problem.
"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis
by ejdacanay on Feb 6, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Agreed.
Monta shooting too much is a persistent problem on this team. The fact that we sometimes win anyway shouldn’t hide the fact that it’s legitimately something that has held us back in many games this season.
I’ve never bought the “no criticism after a loss” mindset.
by Ronaldinho on Feb 6, 2011 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Same.
I just don’t understand why he takes so many long 2’s still…. I don’t get it. It’s such a horrible shot, and he sucks at it.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
he's not shooting too much
he had the same TS% as Curry last night on 7 more shots.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
He's talking about other games most likely.
He’s been shooting way too much the last month besides Utah.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
True
but isn’t this the recap of the bulls game?
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
I guess.
But it’s still a forum of discussion in general i believe?
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Kinda silly
to pick this of all places to complain about the way Monta played in other games.
by WestCoastWarrior on Feb 7, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
Monta shooting too much is a persistent problem on this team. The fact that we sometimes win anyway shouldn’t hide the fact that it’s legitimately something that has held us back in many games this season.
I’m kinda surprised you had a hard time understanding what he was talking about there. Seems pretty clear to me. I don’t know why you’d expect the discussion here to be limited to this particular game.
Haha
Yeah, that’s putting it kindly. It has always been a pretty free flowing discussion here.
When the moderators actually take time to apologize for removing a religious and political debate you know the standards for what is “on topic” can’t be all that high. If you are talking about basketball at all you are more on topic than at least 10% of the total comments here, and that’s only counting the off topic posts by Naticus (I kid, I kid).
same people with the same agenda...i could have predicted your tired opinion already.
by davidleeisabeast on Feb 7, 2011 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
What's my "agenda?"
This team has problems. I’d like to see them fixed. Monta’s shoot-first attitude and lack of defense are two of our significant problems.
It’s easy to predict my opinion because it’s easy to see the problem’s in Monta’s game – that is, unless you mistake highlight reel for a game tape or are blinded by PPG.
What's my "agenda?"
Haha, You a lobbyist for intelligence?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 7, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
I’ll spell it out: Vladimir Radmanovic needs more shots and the Warriors offense needs to flow through him- not Stephen Curry. There’s something wrong when Radmanovic is +23, can’t miss a three pointer this entire season (maybe he should be teaching Stephen Curry how to shoot them), but gets 15 less shots than the Warriors supposed MVP who winds up +14 on the night. Let’s not forget Radmanovic had 0 turnovers against one of the best defenses in the league.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Feb 6, 2011 11:20 AM PST reply actions 12 recs
amazing!
gotta take ab1’s write-ups with a grain of salt huh?
by soda pop SMASH on Feb 6, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
A couple of areas where this ironic analogy fails:
• Vlad is not a better three-point shooter than Curry. Curry is a, um, slightly better FT shooter than Biedrins.
• You’re right that using plus-minus in small sample sizes (one game, e.g.) is always a risky proposition. The thing is, Curry’s plus-minus advantage in this game is supported by a much, much larger sample size. As in, Curry’s whole NBA career. Curry’s two-year adjusted plus minus currently stands at plus 10.27. That’s, like, franchise player level. Monta’s figure for the same two-year period? Minus 6.00. That’s, like … not franchise player level.
People are right that this “debate” is silly, mostly ‘cos it shouldn’t even be a debate. Monta’s a good player, an exciting player, a hard worker, and (seemingly) a cool guy who is currently the team’s veteran spiritual leader. In terms of actual basketball skills that relate to winning ballgames, he’s not even close to Curry. In his second season, Curry’s already a better rebounder, better passer, and a vastly more efficient scorer than Monta — by better than 50 points of TS (at a similar volume). The rather shocking 16-point difference in plus-minus numbers makes me think that, for all his silly mistakes, Curry’s ability to break down defenses off the dribble, spread the floor, see the floor, find his teammates, and score from any point on the floor puts incalculably more pressure on opposing defenses than Monta’s aesthetically thrilling but rather predictable offensive approach.
Did I mention that Curry plays a premium position, is correctly sized for his position, and is only due $7M total until the 2013/14 season?
Curry’s silly mistakes are still an issue, clearly. But I keep thinking about jae’s excellent post from a few days ago in which he cited an author’s new-agey theories about the way elite athletes develop — IIRC, not in a constant straight line, but with flat periods of learning and pushing the envelope that look like plateaus or even regressions to the casual observer. The last couple of weeks it really looks to me as if Curry is coming out of a chrysalis stage and starting to spread his butterfly wings. And heck even during his chrysalis stage … among all his contemporaries in the “year of the PG,” Curry has had second best assist rate this season (after Jrue Holiday), and has been #1 with a bullet in terms of scoring ability.
All that said, Monta played very well last night, as he has for most of this season. I was especially impressed with his D. For now, I’m happy to have them both. Last night was one of the few games this season where I thought both of them doing their thing might be a sustainable design for the team.
Meantime, I’m waiting for esteemed GSoMer Owen Ellickson to join this thread and explain, in his inimitably eloquent manner, why losing CJ Watson was the death knell for the Warriors’ franchise, and why any enthusiasm concerning Stephen Curry needs to be curbed mercilessly.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 6, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 13 recs
Oops
My bad on the plus-minus numbers.
Curry’s 2-year adjusted APM: +6.14
Curry’s 1-year adjusted APM: +10.27
Monta’s 2-year adjusted APM: -5.21
Monta’s 1-year adjusted APM: -6.00
Obviously, the fact that Monta’s number has dipped slightly, despite his playing far better this year than last, suggests that this number contains a fair amount of noise. Still, when we’re talking about an 11 point spread over two years, it seems clear to me that there’s something more than noise there (esp. when the other numbers basically support the plus-minus numbers).
Take a look at the plus-minus numbers of the real franchise players around the league (LeBron, Wade, Durant, Paul e.g.) and it gets harder to make a case that two years of plus-minus data is meaningless.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Feb 6, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Since when is Monta considered a superstar? (or anywhere close to Paul and such?)
He gets payed like a 3rd option on a championship team, he plays like a 2nd option on a championship team. It just happens to be that he’s the best player on this team.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Steinmetz?
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
?
I never said Monta was considered a superstar. I’ll try to spell this out more clearly.
1. The fact that all real franchise players have overwhelmingly positive plus-minus numbers (generally, best on their teams) suggests that, over large sample sizes, the number is not meaningless.
2. If the number is not meaningless, the fact that Curry has so vastly outperformed Monta, for going on two years, suggests that the statement “Monta Ellis is best player on the Warriors” is nothing more than a hollow catch phrase.
There will be no extra point!
+/- is crap
Durant had the worst in the league when they were losing.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Feb 6, 2011 3:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
ok I'm home
Winning cures everything. Look at Durant.
08-09 season:
-0.7 on offense and +8.9 on defense. That’s HORRIBLE.
09-10 season:
+14.5 on offense and -2.4 on defense. That’s fantastic.
All they did was have one off-season together (unless you think rookie Harden is somehow a huge upgrade).
All he (individually) did the next year is get to the line more and get more rebounds. He shot much worse from 3 too.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
He also improved significantly as an individual defender and his TS% and scoring volume both went up.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
yes he got to the line more=TS% and scoring volume went up
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Yeah
and he helped his team win more. His individual D went from one of the worst to average-y.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
duh..
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Durant improved substantially over his first three years
From his rookie to third year, Durant scored 6.4 more points/36 while shooting the .7/36 more. He improved his ability to get to the line and the percentage of shots from there that he hit. He went from being a poor rebounder at the 3 to being a good one.
The only way you’d miss how much Durant improved was if you were obsessed by PPG and didn’t have the ability to understand that 30PPG is actually a lot better than 25ppg.
In other words – all of Durant’s other stats back up the story of +/-: that he got a lot better.
by Ronaldinho on Feb 6, 2011 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
so funny
when Monta gets 25 ppg and X player gets 20 ppg, it’s because Monta took more shots and ballhogged and the media is obsessed with PPG. When Durant takes more shots, it’s because I’m wrong and by your anti-Monta criteria Durant got better. Of course he got better, but it wasn’t his individual growth that helped them get into playoffs. It had a part in it, but it was mostly chemistry, coaching and other players’ development.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Durant didn't just shoot more ... he shot better.
He second year, he scored more points on fewer shots/36.
Of course he got better, but it wasn’t his individual growth that helped them get into playoffs. It had a part in it, but it was mostly chemistry, coaching and other players’ development.
Durant produced 9 more wins, according to WP, between those two seasons. Russell westbrook produced five. Sepholosha produced four. Of course, Collison’s pruduction went down.
It’s not all Durant, but deny the huge impact of Durant’s improvement is silly, and, well, just not justifiable if you look at the stats.
Obviously, at lot went right for them to make that kind of jump, but you were suggesting that +/- was not reflecting Durant’s improvement, and that’s what I’m calling B.S. on.
WS/WP are meaningless to me.
unless you would trade Durant for Westbrook+Sefolosha. Same wins produced right?
Point is, he wasn’t much better during that season especially on the offensive end. He got hype, wins and started driving more, which lead to FTA’s increase. That’s about his only improvement on the offensive end. I don’t see why Monta can’t improve that along with his chemistry with Steph.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
unless you would trade Durant for Westbrook+Sefolosha. Same wins produced right?
Nope. I was talking about the CHANGE in wins produced.
Durant produced more wins. The difference is even better if you talk about a replacement level player getting those minutes.
started driving more, which lead to FTA’s increase
And getting more FTAs was a function of him being a better player.
Two otherwise identical players, one gets to the FT line a lot, the other doesn’t, the first guy is a much better player.
ok... and?
I’m pretty sure I touched on that already. Monta needs to learn how to draw fouls better.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Do you have a point?
Your initial point seemed to be that Durant was good in 08-09 so +/- is bull. Now I’m not sure what your point is- Durant’s individual defense and his box score stats improved between those years as well.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
yeah..
measuring individual players on losing teams with +/- is useless. Actually it’s useless in general, but yeah.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
measuring individual players on losing teams with +/- is useless.
Which is why no one bothers citing gross plus/minus and instead looks at either net (how the team does with and without a player) or an adjusted plus minus. You appear to be making protests against something you quite clearly don’t know enough about in any reasonable manner.
by jae on Feb 6, 2011 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
measuring individual players on losing teams with +/- is useless. Actually it’s useless in general, but yeah.
Why do you think any of this?
by Missing Barry on Feb 7, 2011 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
Monta needs to learn how to draw fouls better.
Don’t hold your breath. Very, very few players improve substantially in this regard.
by jae on Feb 6, 2011 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
This one guy that has the same name as our "star" PF has something to do with most of those improvements
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Free throw rates as a ratio of shot attempts are rather stable over careers for players, your paranoid conspiracy delusions not withstanding in the slightest.
by jae on Feb 6, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Monta plays like the second option on a championship team?
Uh … no, he doesn’t.
Second options on championship teams – you’re talking about guys like Ray Allen, Pau Gasol, Manu Ginobili, Shaquille O’Neal, and Chauncy Billups.
There isn’t a single one of those guys who, playing at the level they played at in their championship year(s), would be reasonable to trade for Monta. Their teams would laugh at the offer.
Of course they would.
I’m sure they’d rather have a rookie Manu in 2003 over Monta.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Well, I was looking at the last several champions - which means a more recent Spurs team.
On the 02-03 Spurs, Ginobili wasn’t the second option, Tony Parker was.
And no, they wouldn’t have traded Parker that year for Monta this year.
the 15 ppg and 55% TS Parker
uh-huh
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
He was their point guard and their primary distributor.
He was also a top defensive player at his position, which is just as important as offensive production.
That Spurs team worked because everybody played within themselves and understood their role. Thorwing a no-D, no-rebounding guard with a habit of shooting a ton even when it’s not going in for him, and there are other players having good offensive game?
There was no room for a player like that on the Spurs.
Monta is a good defensive player at the position where he’s not severely outmatched by bigger guards. He guards PG’s well.
Then of course, Monta this year (his worst year BY FAR in rebounding) is a better rebounder than Parker was.
And on top of that he is less turnover prone.
Monta never played in an organized system like Spurs, Cetlics or Detroit. There is no doubt in my mind that he’d be much better in those systems as a 2nd/3rd option than here.
And Pierce was the 2nd option in 2008.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Monta is a good defensive player at the position where he’s not severely outmatched by bigger guards. He guards PG’s well.
Sure. But the Spurs needed someone who could play PG, offensively, too. Which Monta can’t do.
Then of course, Monta this year (his worst year BY FAR in rebounding) is a better rebounder than Parker was.
By a whopping .1 rebound/36.
And on top of that he is less turnover prone.
Nope. Parker turned the ball over less.
Monta never played in an organized system like Spurs, Cetlics or Detroit. There is no doubt in my mind that he’d be much better in those systems as a 2nd/3rd option than here.
Well, the problem is that Monta really should be our second or third option, here. But he shoots too much, and acts like he should be a first option.
And that’s my #1 problem with Monta. He plays like he thinks he’s better than he is.
And the fact that he doesn’t play to the team’s strengths now, on the Warriors, makes it hard to argue that he’d magically get it if he were on a better team. And that’s the problem: for Monta to work on the Spurs he would have to understand his role on the team and play within it. And since he doesn’t do that here, it’s hard to give him credit for doing it there.
Of course, Poppovich probably wouldn’t put up with that, so Monta would have had trouble getting on the floor unless he got it.
And Pierce was the 2nd option in 2008.
He was their leading scorer, and also the guy they went to for points in crunch time. Garnett scored more per minute, but was not somebody they ever used as a “go-to” scorer.
If you want to call Pierce the #2 option, I think you’re wrong, but in any event, it just makes my point even no clear: Monta is nowhere near as good as Pierce was that year. Calling Pierce the #2 option on that team does not advance your argument that Monta is good enough to be a #2 option on a championship team.
-Everything can be taught. Ray Allen didn’t suddenly become a better defender after he got traded because he worked on it himself. It’s the mind-set.
-yet you mentioned it as a negative for Ellis…strong backpedaling
-he doesn’t act like it, he does what the coach tells him to do.
-It’s unfair to Monta to compare him to a vet who plays alongside 3 other HOF’ers in the best defensive system in NBA.
Pierce at 25 was about the same player as Monta was last year.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Adequate size
can’t be taught.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
adequate for a PG..
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
but he just said that he cant play pg on offense that great
read the comments
If we hadnt ship him out for your scrubs you wouldnt have him so give us some respect
Parker is not a better distributor than Monta
and he’s been doing that for 8 years.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Parker is not a better distributor than Monta
and he’s been doing that for 8 years.
Tony Parker for his career:
per 36
6.2 assists
2.7 turnovers
Monta Ellis for his career:
4.2 assists
2.7 turnovers
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 7, 2011 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
ok jesus
Monta is a SG. Assists don’t necessarily determine your playmaking abilities. Or do you think Kobe isn’t a better passer than Monta?
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Kobe gets more assists than Monta...whats your point?
And Monta is a SG who handles the ball just as much as Parker. They’ve had similar usage rates the past 4 years and Monta’s actually had the higher one.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 7, 2011 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
He scores more...
He wouldnt have to shoot that much with spurs
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Feb 7, 2011 8:33 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
You've got to make up your mind.
You’re always changing the subject.
Here you claimed that Monta was as good a distributor as Parker. He presented evidence to suggest otherwise. You were the one claiming that Monta could somehow be a PG.
WHy don’t you present some evidence.
It's true that Pierce had maturity issues that seemed to connect to a couple of Monta-like seasons.
And certainly it’s not impossible for Monta to improve his understanding of the game and thus to play smarter, which would help the team a lot.
(Although even in Pierce’s bad shooting years he was always an at-lest-adequate rebounder for his position. Monta isn’t).
but
You didn’t claim that Monta might eventually mature into a player good enough to be a #2 guy on a championship team. You claimed that Monta was that good right now.
So how good Pierce was at 25 isn’t really relevant, now, is it?
I didn't really mean that analogy to be very truthful (obviously)
and up until 5 days ago Vlad was a better 3 point shooter, but I guess Steph has been hot last couple games, so he’s not a whole 0.01% better :)
But you can’t argue that whatever Atma wrote in WW is a load of crap especially after our backcourt won the game for us (especially after Monta shut down Rose, although Steph and others helped). I understand if this would’ve been at the end of the Charlotte game or whatnot, but blaming Monta for scoring 33 on 22 shots??? really?
33/22=1.5
23/15=1.5333
so despite shooting 7 more shots, Monta has the same efficiency? Sounds good to me.
Curry fueled our run in the 3rd (after Monta’s reverse) and Monta got us going in the 4th with his 7 straight points.
11:18 72-74 Monta Ellis makes free throw 1 of 2
11:18 72-75 Monta Ellis makes free throw 2 of 2
10:30 74-77 Monta Ellis makes 18-foot two point shot
9:34 74-79 Monta Ellis makes two point shot
8:27 74-80 Monta Ellis makes free throw 1 of 2
8:27 74-81 Monta Ellis makes free throw 2 of 2
then Curry went on a little run and Monta finished the game off:
1:58 84-97 Monta Ellis makes 2-foot two point shot (Reggie Williams assists)
0:24 90-99 Monta Ellis makes 19-foot two point shot
0:16 90-100 Monta Ellis makes free throw 1 of 2
0:16 90-101 Monta Ellis makes free throw 2 of 2
That WW write-up is crap. Period.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Feb 6, 2011 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Curry's efficiency by possession (which is how TS% is made) was better.
But Monta had a nice edge in volume so it didn’t really matter.
I agree with your main point…they both helped us to victory.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
our backcourt won the game for us
I’d attribute the win more to our team defense.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Feb 6, 2011 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
Boozer: 10-17
Taj Gibson: 3-4
Kurt Thomas: 4-5
Deng: 7-15
vs
Rose: 6-15, 9 To
C.J. Watson: 0-5
Brewer: 1-4
Bogans: 2-5
Korver: 4-9
eh..yeah I’d say it was the combo of backcourt+Udoh (maybe a bit Biedrins).
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
It’s not always a position by position comparison. If you think Ellis and Curry were able to stop Derrick Rose by themselves your out of your mind.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Feb 6, 2011 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
they did..bigs had almost nothing to do with stopping Rose
we were trapping him way before he got there
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
we were trapping him way before he got there
then they were getting a whole lotta help from the other bulls players for not reacting to the fact that someone else had to be open if rose was double teamed.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 6, 2011 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
Derek Rose will feast being covered by just 1 or even 2 defenders. Derek Rose can only be stopped by a team defense. It’s pretty hard to argue otherwise, but if you think so that’s fine.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Feb 7, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Points per shot isn't that meaningful
on a possession basis, Curry was the more efficient player. Monta was still really efficient, he just scored like 10 points at the line.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
So?
I see you use TS% all the time. You do know that FTA’s are a huge boost to TS%, right? Why do you use that to punish Monta in this case? Non-sense
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Yes
I do use TS%. I like it a lot. You aren’t using TS%.
Curry: .703
Monta: .625
Free throws are a good thing, but they aren’t really free. Free throws still take possessions, they just happen to be the most efficient use of possessions. I’m not punishing him for taking free throws, because that helped a lot, but you didn’t appropriately weight them.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This...
One of the reasons people like TS% so much is that it effectively levels the playing field when comparing different types of scorers. By appropriately weighting 2pt, 3pt, and fts you can effectively compare the offensive efficiency of guys like Maggette and Curry without letting FTs and 3pt shots muddy the waters. Without that measure people have a really hard time fairly comparing players that score in different ways.
Monta came into the league out of High School
your point is moot.
Why?
You didn’t even make a point.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis
Haha. Which point?
I think you may have been confused by the phrase “in his second season” in my assessment of Curry, and assumed I was comparing Curry’s second season to Monta’s second season. To be clear: I was talking about them both right now. The point of noting that it’s only Curry’s second year was to suggest that Curry has a bit more room for growth than Monta, who’s 2.5 years older and in his sixth NBA season. But even if we assume no growth from Curry, there’s a mountain of evidence to suggest that right now Curry is a more effective, more winning, “better” player than Monta, and almost no evidence that suggests the reverse.
There will be no extra point!
Biedrins played well all game long
rebound tip’s and stuff
He did a couple of good things on offense, too, that looked pretty impressive. Nice increase in aggression/confidence. Very encouraging.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Udoh
I think Udoh and Lee need to play more together – Udoh for D and Lee for rebounds. Have beans work with amundson or bwright for good rebounding/shot blocking.
Now we just need to work on not getting down 15 in the third – could have been an epic 30 pt blowout.
Nah
We need Udoh and Beans to work together.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Feb 6, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
B.Wright and Amundson aren’t good outside shooters, so they have a problem spreading the floor with either of those two combined with Biedrins. When Udoh gets his jump shot better established/respected, he’ll work with Biedrins really well, I think. That’ll be good stuff.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Great coaching last night.
There… I said it.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 6, 2011 11:36 AM PST reply actions
I’d still prefer to have Curry’s, Monta’s, and Dorell’s minutes lowered =/. But the overall defensive scheme (with some very nice offensive plays) were great.
by Prince.Charming on Feb 6, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t mind the minutes whilegetting a win against the third best team in the east.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Feb 6, 2011 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
i loveee how Smart did not call a timeout when we were getting crushed in the third
usually he would, and even i was anticipating the TO to come after they got up by 11 or so. But he held firm and believed in the team, and the team was able to get in a rythym and push through. Ballsy call.
I also love seeing Monta cut off the Biedrins post. They ran it twice last night, once for a dunk and the other for the reverse. Monta needs more opportunities to score while moving without the ball, and in general I found Monta being moved around a lot more than usual. Really promising stuff. With Smart’s often brilliant half court sets and a more flowing offense, I’m really looking forward to these next few games.
Goal: 8 seed!
by dso on Feb 6, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Smart's been better lately.
But he’s still not an ideal head coach honestly.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
well i think it remains to be seen
people improve. You know, i was one of DWright’s biggest critics early on even as he was leading the NBA in 3pt shooting because he was such a liability when shooting other shots. But he’s gotten so much better at finishing inside and it seems he’s picking up a new move every week.
I think Smart’s been improving a lot as well. It started with these cute out of bounds plays he’s been running for a good month and a half. And now it feels like he’s more settled with his lineup, whereas before it felt he was just smashing together pieces to see what worked. I especially liked how he used Udoh. Can you imagine if we had Udoh blocking Boozer’s shots like that during the Utah series?
Goal: 8 seed!
by dso on Feb 6, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about how he plays Vlad, and he did, in fact, play Amundson when he was healthy more than Vlad. So what is the other option? It’s between B.Wright and Vlad, but with Smart being a defense guy, he doesn’t like B.Wright’s lack of ability to do rotations, block out and defend the post. I don’t like it much, but I will tolerate it, provided Smart continues to be so good with people like Biedrins and Reggie. He’s much more positive than negative, doing things that other coaches couldn’t or wouldn’t do. Apparently bad rotations, but we somehow won against the Bulls, using defense. Interesting.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
That’s a good play for Monta, definitely. He’s so quick without the ball, he’s going to destroy teams with plays like that.
That assist to Monta on the inbounds was pretty cool, too :).
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Monta does move very well without the ball. I agree that I’d like to see him moving off handoffs, curls, and backcuts more often.
by Missing Barry on Feb 7, 2011 8:09 AM PST up reply actions
This was a classic Atma recap. Very entertaining to say the least! Nice.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 11:54 AM PST reply actions
Of course you would
Especially after that WW post.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
by HerFavColor on Feb 6, 2011 1:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Classic Atma = Entertaining.
I didn’t say i agree, even if i do agree with his last point.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
agreed 100%
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
for the Bulls fan who contributed last night
Hate to rub it in, but what the hell: "The San Francisco Bay Area is expected to hit record high temperatures for February today, with highs reaching the 60s to mid 70s. "
Giddiness in the Warrior nation, and a helluva weekend to boot.
Agree it’s not the day to stoke Steph v Monta stories, though when I was talking to my kid pregame, I was lamenting the deficient size on defense the pair represent, and Nellie’s comments.
And he counters with: “yeah, so what, how often does the other backcourt beat us?”
Love that kid. ;-)
Looking forward to Monday’s game. LGW!
by WillyWhiteShoes on Feb 6, 2011 12:07 PM PST reply actions
In the spirit of this recap...
This was a great win, but the fact that it was such an anomaly in the grand scheme of things reminds me how far the warriors have to go before they are able to consistently beat teams with winning records.
Ugly part of the game:
The bench. 6 points in 46 minutes of playing. It was great to pull out the W, but Dorell had to play 48 minutes, Curry/Ellis both clocked in 44. We can’t play like that every night. Good teams have their allstars play 40+ in games like this, but 25 minutes on the easy nights. We are far from that.
The question is
Did the bench suck or did the bench not score much because the starters played so much.
Good teams have a better and more consistent bench than us
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Feb 6, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
I just wanted to say, that was a great freakin’ game. Sorry I missed the GSoM thread, though. Great, great stuff.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Naticus, don’t take it personally, but I went ahead and hid the Obama photo and all the comments that followed. It’s not that I think any of your points were particularly offensive or off-base, just that I know how much, er, stamina you tend to have in these political discussions, and I didn’t want to see what could have been an interesting hoops discussion, after a great Ws game, get buried under 1,000+ posts about politics.
US presidential piety is a pretty interesting topic, though — one I’m sure the kind folks over at Dailykos or Huffington Post (or elsewhere) would enjoy debating with you to your heart’s content. ;-)
There will be no extra point!
Tell him it's Ronald Reagans birthday!
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, no problem. I was going to apologize for opening a can of worms, actually. Seriously, that picture of Obama, to me, indicates arrogance. Not a fan.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Also, this is not an invitation to start a debate. I don’t like him. Let’s leave it at that.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
I don’t like him. Let’s leave it at that.
that’s ok, not everyone can appreciate greatness. It’s a taste that has to be developed.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 6, 2011 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Coach Smart
Besides a lot of questionable rotations and benching of our young star (you could argue that this is for the better), if Curry and Lee don’t go through injuries during the beginning of the season, were talking about a team that could be well above or just above .500.
Given the addition of David Lee, Dorell Wright, and a new, improved Monta Ellis, Coach Smart has nearly got this ship turned around. Sure he has had us all scratching our heads at times, but let’s not forget he is developing as a coach also. Although he was basically co-coach last year, Coach Smart has roughly a year of head coaching experience and his stint with the Cavaliers didn’t help him much as far as becoming a better coach is concerned.
Although there are some aspects of the coaching job that Coach Smart has struggled at (rotations, play calling, offensive execution), you would have to think that it will get better with time. I think he will get better at getting more out of the bench and the players will execute better with more repetition (which comes with time). We are already seeing what playing together for a while will do to a team’s defense.
For all the impatient fans out their, unless an already great coach comes along, replacing Coach Smart will require the team to potentially learn a whole new system, which could then take a while to translate to winning basketball.
Serving it up night in and night out -Steph "The Chef" Curry
by dont_stop_believin' on Feb 6, 2011 1:33 PM PST reply actions
Hindsight
But I do wonder what it would have been like if Amundson and Udoh weren’t injured at the start of the year, and if Chandler didn’t bite DLee.
Although there are some aspects of the coaching job that Coach Smart has struggled at (rotations, play calling, offensive execution), you would have to think that it will get better with time.
Coach can’t really show more Xs and Os knowledge than by drawing up plays after a timeout, and I gotta say Smart has been pretty good in that. However, I guess unsurprisingly, he is rather conservative with his rotations and more likely to ride the veteran than not.
The Golden State Warriors, we make Free Throws look difficult!
by Badly Browned on Feb 6, 2011 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
WW
Should be Monta, his defense on Rose was great
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I thought Monta played great
really didn’t force much, moved a lot more than usual when Curry had the ball. I think Smart is realizing that having Monta or Curry space out when the other has the ball is a waste of offensive talent. Also, the offense looked like it was run more through Curry than Ellis than times before, even if Ellis got more shots. This is encouraging stuff.
For this team to work as presently composed, Smart needs to continue maneuvering Ellis off the ball while allowing Curry to run the offense. I also like how Biedrins is starting to become a passing threat from the post, something that’s just as important for spacing purposes as having 3 point shooters.
I’m stoked man. We beat a good team with a strong defensive plan and a more fluid offense than games prior. I hope we continue up this learning curve!
Goal: 8 seed!
ANOTHER THING
GO PACK GO!
"I tell him straight, 'If you're going to lead, you have to be the first to practice. You have to come in, get your work down and be prepared for practice,' " assistant coach Keith Smart said. "He needs to figure out why he is having stomach problems and he's got to watch how LeBron (James), Kobe (Bryant) and D-Wade (Dwyane Wade) work. He needs to mimic that if he wants his teammates to speak volumes about him." -Keith Smart on Motna Ellis
TOOL TOOL TOOL!
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
Was very happy to see Bean out there in the 4th quarter
There was a stretch in the 4th quarter where Beans just seemed to be cleaning up the defensive glass while always having Bulls & rarely any Warriors around. I’m really hoping that this will start more 4th quarter playing time for him.
Udoh’s defense was really good. Rebounding was bad but his defense was good enough to make up for it.
==
Smart’s been designing some really effective plays out of timeouts & made the right call to not call TO when it seemed the Bulls were about to knock out the Warriors in the 3rd quarter. With how well the Bulls have been playing, this was a really good win.
The fact that starters needed to log so many minutes was not so good but we all know this bench is weak.
Yeah, that was a new one to have Biedrins in during the 4th. That should really help us in the long run. When we’re ahead, we need his defense to prevent comebacks. His rebounding, footwork and ability to change shots are much more beneficial to the team than most people think.
And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Monta Ellis
Rookie year he was 18. Fresh out of highschool and he shot 42-59. Curry came into the league at 21, Let’s check Ellis’s numbers from 21+ vs Curry. I hate you Curry pole smokers. I love Curry and Ellis both, but for you to be ignorant about Ellis is intolerable. If we some how get Iggie, put Curry on the bench. You will see this team in the playoffs. Ellis is our Future. Kid has so much time left, and hes putting up Kobe numbers. If he was taller everyone would be on Jock.
If taller meant he played better defense and rebounded better, then yes ...
… if he was adequate in those two areas, a lot of us would like him a lot more. Because those two areas are relevant to actually being a good basketball player.
Monta was actually 20 when he played his first NBA game. DOB: October 26, 1985
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Kid has so much time left, and hes putting up Kobe numbers.
No he isn’t, unless you use a very, very narrow definition of “numbers” that excludes many things that are exceptionally important to winning basketball games.
by jae on Feb 6, 2011 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not sure what you mean by numbers to make this assertion. You’ll have to elaborate on that, but I don’t see many if any areas that justify the statement.
Kobe is scoring more points and doing it at a higher efficiency. Their effective FG% are very similar. Currently, Ellis is very, very slightly better. However, Bryant’s overall offensive efficiency is higher because he’s better at getting to the FT line.
Bryant is a much, much better rebounder and per minute, much better at handing out assists. Monta’s per game advantage is entirely a function of his playing more minutes.
Monta is slightly less turnover prone this year in terms of turnovers per minute, but that’s mostly a function of Kobe’s higher overall usage. Monta turns the ball over more often as a function of the times he either shoots or passes.
Steals? Three point shooting? Monta’s been better, but that does not balance out the other areas where Kobe’s been much better. I wish it were not true, but Kobe has been a better player, just by the numbers.
by jae on Feb 7, 2011 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Kobe's much better than Ellis even at 32, but still
He’s putting up Paul Pierce numbers I’d say. At the same age.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
Yes and no on Pierce. It’s a weird case because at the age Monta’s currently at, Pierce had a couple of down years in scoring efficiency randomly sandwiched in between better years. Of course, Monta’s also shown the ability to be a more efficient scorer in the past. The jury is still out on exactly what Monta’s going to do, and it would be on Pierce, as well, if we didn’t have knowledge of what he did in future years. His bounceback appears to me to be much closer to best case scenario than worst. Basically I don’t really know how meaningful the comparison is.
by Missing Barry on Feb 7, 2011 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
It's a strange comparison.
There’s no question that Pierce improved an unusually large amount from his down years at around age 25 until the Celtics championship years.
But the thing is, that sort of improvement is unusual. HerFav seems to want to assume Monta will improve an unusual amount, which is hard to justify. However, since he also doesn’t seem to think Monta needs to improve (claiming he’s good enough to be a second option on a championship team right now) it’s a little, well, inconsistent.
Or rather, it’s not. All positive attributes must be attributed to Monta. All negative ones must be downplayed.
If he was taller everyone would be on Jock.
haha, if he was taller his problem would be gone. But what makes you think he’ll grow anymore( other than filling out as he ages)?
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 6, 2011 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
Monta would guard Fisher...
Or rondo, or Nelson. He would have amazing defense. Kid already creates turnovers and averages 2 steals. He just guards the wrong people because he has to guard the taller person, or steph does… Ellis defense > Steph.
That doesn't make sense.
Because he has to guard the taller player because thats the only position he can play well on offense…not hard concept.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 5:45 PM PST up reply actions
Too bad he isn't a point guard
They’re both really bad position defenders.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 6, 2011 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
Ray Allen was never considered a good defender until Thibs and Rivers.
"Thank goodness for Stephen Curry, Ekpe Udoh, David Lee and Dorell Wright, because they’re the only positives we’ve got going forward."- Warriors "fan"
And?
Ray Allen had adequate size to be a reasonably good position defender. Monta wouldn’t suddenly grow 3" because he started playing with Kevin Garnett.
That third guitar note you played just now was perfect, dogg. Maybe play it again a little later alright.
by Reverend_Randy on Feb 7, 2011 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
Defense is about more than creating turnovers. I’ve never seen anything out of Ellis that makes me think he’d be a very good position defender against either PG’s or SG’s. Better against PG’s than SG’s, sure. But better != good. Better than Curry? Probably, but again, better != good. Curry isn’t a good defender.
by Missing Barry on Feb 7, 2011 8:20 AM PST up reply actions
I'm gonna FedEx two shirts to GovSC
One with a huge picture of Smart’s head that says “Keith Smart: You Are All Welcome”
And another with a fleeting picture of Monta that says “You can’t spell defense without spelling Monta Ellis first”
Lakers, Patriots, Yankees and Wings 'til I Die
lol
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 6, 2011 8:05 PM PST up reply actions
i think i appreciated David Lee's contribution from the bench more than on the court during the 4th
His defense was atrocious all game. I had this horrible feeling we were going to let the game slip away when Smart put him back in for Vlad Rad, once we had a comfortable lead.
To his credit, David Lee is probably the Dub’s best cheerleader. And that reverse dunk was pretty dope.
ya
he was definitely off yesterday. he’s just gotta get back in the rhythm he’s been in the past month or so, but otherwise, yesterday was hard to watch.
"It ain't Chinese algebra. If you get stops and you execute on offense, normally that team wins." - Tony Allen
"One thing LeBron James has won that Kobe Bryant never has, and never will: A bronze medal."- Josh Tucker
After reading all this I feel like we lost the game.
How come after reading all this I feel like we lost the game, and if we just cut Monta then we’d be a winning team?
by rickeyrocks on Feb 7, 2011 8:02 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
The grass is always greener I guess.
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Type the words RUN TMC in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130481653681 in Ebay!
Raider fans copy & paste 130481653681 in Ebay!
The grass is always greener I guess.
tell that to september.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 7, 2011 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Vintage Atma
Andris Biedrins is having (yet another) a poor season that is proving how big of a mistake Chris Mullin made when he foolishly inked him to that ludicrous and premature $62 million dollar extension (including incentives) when he received ZERO interest as a restricted free agent in the summer of 2008. Biedrins has picked it up as of late though and the Warriors don’t win this game without his 4th quarter rebounding. Sure the Bulls starting big man Joakim Noah was out, but it’s always a huge plus when Biedrins can give them something at the 5 spot.
Amazing. Simply amazing
One of best post game re-cap’s of year. Only fitting after the best game of the year.
by tafkasam on Feb 7, 2011 1:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Amazing. Simply amazing One of best post game re-cap’s of year
yeah, he’s a master of the distiller’s art. JackDaniels would pay big money for that talent.
Lights please, lights please, turn off the lights.
by Skeptic con Urquell on Feb 7, 2011 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
This win only partly offsets how gross the Bobcats loss was.
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Or the more optimistic viewpoint: the Bobcats loss offset the two wins we stole from the Kings.
by Missing Barry on Feb 7, 2011 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
Very rarely do I take the optimistic viewpoint when it comes to the Warriors
Sittin in my scraper watchin Oakland goin wild, ta-dow!
Very rarely do I take the optimistic viewpoint when it comes to the Warriors
You obviously do frequently if you are still a W’s fan and follow this site….
Main 4 (minus biedrins) play: 18-14
(we’re 4-5 in games without big Dre)
Lee or Curry missing: 4-13
Yeah, we got a nice 4, 5 if Andris plays way he can. Health, this team should be easily .500. Positive depth (2-3 impact subs), we could be a 50 win team.
Thats not so bad, I’d like to build upon that. The whole trading for an elite player is a lot easier to happen when we a) are winning a bit more, so our pieces look more attractive and b) when we have 8-9 quality pieces so we can package 2 or 3 for a more ‘elite’ player
Sure...
I think those are very reasonable goals. Until we can make that big move, management should working hard to round out the bench, and the coaching staff should be working hard to maximize what they can get out of Andris.
Of course, in the meantime if an opportunity arises to really upgrade one of the big three (4?) then we could always do that too. Getting an elite player is always the goal in the NBA, but at this point I think we are still better off making any improvements we can. We still haven’t established any kind of high level of chemistry that we should be worried about breaking up IMO. Sure, don’t bring in a locker room wrecker for the sake of a minor upgrade in talent, but I’m still open to trading any of our core if the player coming back is significantly better, and a good fit for the team. Your point is good that we shouldn’t be in a hurry to make that kind of move though. There is some good talent on this team. If we can add some depth, defense (and better coaching) and stay reasonably healthy we could put together a pretty good season next year.
As for that elite player, we likely won’t be bad enough to snag a real impact maker in the draft anytime soon, so accumulating assets for a future trade (basically just improve the team where we can) is probably the best bet. I’d rather bank on that than trying to get under the cap, or getting lucky in the draft.
I’d rather bank on that than trying to get under the cap, or getting lucky in the draft.
This.
Keith Smart is challenging Red Auerbach to be the greatest coach of all time.
by GovernorStephCurry on Feb 7, 2011 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
I’d rather bank on that than trying to get under the cap, or getting lucky in the draft.
Yup it’s either that OR trying to trade everyone who makes over 5 mil for picks and potential, tanking and seeing what we can get in the draft. It worked for OKC, Portland (pre-injuries) at same time, it hasn’t produced much for minnesota.
Personally I don’t think I can stomach option B. But you have to admit, it’s probably the better course of action to building. Waiting in lottery till we find a Durant, Griffin etc.
Then again, we did try that for the better part of my life (26 years) and it didn’t work so well, however you have to believe with GOOD scouting we wouldn’t miss so much…..
Now the real question is going forward. Are you willing to trade Gadzuric for 1 or 2 decent bench players? I don’t see the possibility of a bigger move happening before the deadline. 1-2 bench pieces might be all we need to make a serious run at the 8 seed. Portland is barely hanging on. Memphis/Houston/PHoenix won’t run away with anything. Who knows what will happen with Denver. I’m talking an unexciting move like Morrow + Farmar for Gadzuric oir Ben Gordon for Gadruc/BW?
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