Extension in the Works for Andris Biedrins? (10/3/07)

A Don Nelson/ Baron Davis creation.

by Nellieball on Mar 5, 2011 1:44 PM PST reply actions

For a minute there I thought this was a report that he was going to get an extension

Dont scare me like that lol

by Dro50 on Mar 5, 2011 1:56 PM PST reply actions

me too

I was like WHAT? thought we were gonna get Adonal Foyled again

by The Art Of War on Mar 5, 2011 5:34 PM PST up reply actions

How I love reading this

Back then AB1 said

It’s a real head scratcher why after a change for more fiscal responsibility the Warriors are reportedly about to open up their pocket books for a promising young big man who has some obvious flaws in his game that he’ll most likely never overcome. When was the last time you saw a raw young big man develop a jump shot, a low or high post game, morph into a great passer who you can run your offense through, or a phenomenal shot blocker and rugged defender pretty much out of nowhere?

And the responses were…

omg atma
Wow, your view on Biedrins is baffling to me. You equate giving Beans an extension to the contracts Murphy and Dunleavy signed!!!!

and

Saying Beans has a terrible b-ball IQ is a real head scratcher too. He always seems to be in the right place at the right time. He always knows where he is on the floor in relation to the basket, and has run the pick and roll beautifully.

and

Seriously though, Atma. You’re right about a lot of things. But you’re wrong about Biedrins. You’re wayyyy to hard on that kid. I have no idea why, but you are WAY too hard on him. He’s young, uber talented, and fresh. His speed can give centers around the league fits, and he will improve on defense. There’s literally no reason to say he will never overcome any of his flaws. At least your opinion doesnt sway, but you bash this guy a lot.

and

Andris is very effective offensively in the paint and he is a tremendous rebounder and a good defender on the rise. His height, quickness and soft hands are almost as rare as monta’s speed, hops and finishing ability.

One more for good measure…although this guy was being serious.

i can’t see biedrins improving his ft%, adding any offensive moves to his repertoire (low post moves besides the putbacks and dunks), or averaging more than 2 blocks a game.

i loved how you said “we’d be repeating the same mistake of foyle, murphy, and dunleavy”. thats a terffic point. i remember when murphy completed his first double-double season and everyone was already all over his nuts. and look at all the “slow-lateral movement” criticisms he gets today.

Hate to play the “looking back now, what do you think?” game, but…

I think we’re all pretty much going to agree paying Andris that kinda money was downright silly face. Turns out he didnt improve his FT%, he didn’t add any moves, and he ain’t a great defender.

We still believe!!

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by R Dizzle on Mar 5, 2011 2:29 PM PST reply actions 4 recs

he didnt improve his FT%, he didn’t add any moves, and he ain’t a great defender.

The thing is, he didn’t have to do any of these things to be worth $9M a year. He just had to continue playing more or less at the same level as he had been. I don’t see how that’s an unreasonable thing to expect from a young player. Indeed, the season after he signed his extension he had his perhaps his career-best season: 14.2 points (on .585 ts), 13.4 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.9 blocks per 36 (in 30 minutes a game). That’s freakishly good production, even correcting liberally for the inflationary influence of Nellieball. In today’s big man market, that kind of production is worth a lot more than $9M a year, imo.

Sure if we could have foreseen AB’s serious injury the following year, and the subsequent crisis of confidence and regression into a shell of his former self, we all would have nixed the extension. I just don’t see how, in the absence of a crystal ball, that kind of extreme regression was remotely predictable. Hindsight is 20:20, as they say.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 5, 2011 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs

This

I don’t have a problem with giving Andris that contract. I do have a problem with a now healthy Andris not being able to produce at that level any more. I really don’t know what’s up with him. It seems incredibly odd for a guy who has already proven his worth in the league to regress the way he has at age 24. The guy has just completely fallen off a cliff on the offensive end, and his rebounding and blocks are down while his fouls are up.

I don’t think he’s enjoying basketball anymore. He was never a guy who was driven by competitive fire, but more of a fun loving, easy going character. It could be that he doesn’t have the heart to respond well to adversity, and instead is losing interest in the game. It’s hard for me to relate to, but that might be the case.

Then again, I’ve never even met the guy so it’s probably a waste of my time to try to climb into his head. I just really hope he can find a way to get back to the old Andris. We could really use him… next year.

by olympicmike on Mar 5, 2011 9:12 PM PST up reply actions

Andris is a really cool guy.

Also another reason i hate what Atma says about him.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 5, 2011 10:38 PM PST up reply actions

Well then... why don't you hate when peiple criticize Monta?

Guy is coolest on the Warriors… And no one sacrifices there bodies more for the team

oh wait….. he doesn’t fit in in menlo…..

by tafkasam on Mar 6, 2011 1:35 AM PST up reply actions

Wow, so you're calling us racist now?

by Ronaldinho on Mar 7, 2011 2:10 PM PST up reply actions

I'm not even from Menlo. TBH, i hate that school.

But wow tafka, that wasn’t professional at all, or it was a joke…

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 7, 2011 9:17 PM PST up reply actions

Was this a planned

Pat on the back session for you guys or what? :)

Curry/Lee/Monta= Wins

by danielholl on Mar 6, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions

Chandler would look good in a Warriors uni right about now

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Mar 5, 2011 2:53 PM PST reply actions

That was Mullin's specialty

Negotiating against nobody and still finding away to lose in spectacular fashion. The Biedrins extension was actually one of his best "veteran"contracts, if not the best considering it’s competition.

How bad was Mullin at this particular facet of his job? Derk Fisher might have been one of his best veteran contracts simply because it wasn’t unmovable.

I am not a testicle.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Mar 5, 2011 3:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

Biedrins was worth his contract, until he got those abdominal muscle injuries. There aren’t many bigs that could give you 11/11 games, scoring at the highest efficiency in the league.

But Atma has to troll. It’s his thing.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Mar 5, 2011 3:45 PM PST reply actions 3 recs

Great analysis on andris

Pretty wrong on Chandler tho!

You know I spit technique to the freshest freak
Gimme a call you will see results in just a week
With the soul of a LOST HAWK
Is there a heaven for a Rap Cat, let's talk

by LostHawkGSW on Mar 5, 2011 4:05 PM PST reply actions

The good ol' days of gsom

"The No. 1 thing (fans need to know): we’re going to do our damnedest to bring the Warriors to respectability on the basketball court." - Joe Lacob

by thecity23 on Mar 5, 2011 4:08 PM PST reply actions

Hindsight is 20/20

Except for Atma, who showed great foresight.

What was upsetting about all this was the J-Rich trade. Mullin’s rationale was that we HAD to clear his salary to create room for Beidrins and Monta. I argued “why?” at the time and still do. We were winning with J-Rich playing an integral part. It was hypothetical if Beidrins or Monta would become as important parts of the team at that time.

J-Rich is not a world beater, but a good consistent wing player who fit Nellie ball. Beidrins is just outright bad, and Monta, while spectacular at times, remains a flawed player whom has proven to be difficult to build a team around.

But the other part of all of this is that J-Rich’s contract still had a year to go. Why couldn’t the Warriors just concentrate on winning at the present, instead of once again trying to manage winning in the future, something they have never done? And the # of bad contracts Mullin signed was amazing:

J-Rich (ironically)
Troy Murphy
Dunleavy
Derrick Fisher
Foyle
Biedrins
Monta (I think so, anyhow)
Maggette

by San Francisco Slim on Mar 5, 2011 5:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

I meant

That Beidrins and Monta still had a year to go until their old contracts were up, before we traded J Rich.

by San Francisco Slim on Mar 5, 2011 6:42 PM PST up reply actions

quite a few ppl were with atma on that one...

but its fun yet scary to read all the ppl bashing him for his hesitation to dish out a ton of dough to beans. he never improved.. interesting… some guys get better.. some dont…
now…. what will udoh do? stay about the same? improve? get worse (he peaked early lol)?

by PIRATEWARRIOR on Mar 5, 2011 10:30 PM PST up reply actions

I think every GM would love to have montas contract right now.

by Belinelli's the savior on Mar 5, 2011 10:40 PM PST up reply actions

Why did MTII report the only offers for Monta were expirings for the most part?

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 5, 2011 10:48 PM PST up reply actions

Cause everyone want to get something without giving up a lot

And that means they didnt mind his contract if they are giving up expirings to take on a guy with 3 yrs left at 11 mill.

by Belinelli's the savior on Mar 5, 2011 10:51 PM PST up reply actions

It also means they don't 'love' his contract or else they'd be offering more than expirings, which are pretty worthless.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 5, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions

Wanting Monta for only expirings and trash

Basically saying Monta’s market value was nil.

"Though that reminds me of a quality razor and mr. t story

he said once nellie was freaking out in locker room telling them how badly they sucked in first half. And he was so made he didn’t realize he hadn’t zipped up from his pee and his junk was hanging out." -Tafkasam

by Badly Browned on Mar 6, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions

"great foresight"

I dont see anything there mentioning Biedrins’ fragile mental toughness. Perhaps he never learned to shoot jumpshots or whatnot, but his overall stats gradually increased each year until the injury.

I do think there is some point to how Baron’s passing ability really helped with Beidrin’s offense though. I think Baron running off to the Clippers really set us back a long time, though no way in hell Baron deserved that money.

However, just look at the players Atma listed in his post. We got market value, maybe even better with Biedrin’s contract.

"Though that reminds me of a quality razor and mr. t story

he said once nellie was freaking out in locker room telling them how badly they sucked in first half. And he was so made he didn’t realize he hadn’t zipped up from his pee and his junk was hanging out." -Tafkasam

by Badly Browned on Mar 6, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions

completely has nothing to do with Biedrins but anyone notice the kind of stats Kris Humphries is putting up?

where did hell did he come from?

by The Art Of War on Mar 5, 2011 5:29 PM PST reply actions

I think he has the best rebound rate in the league

Part of it, is that he’s getting starter’s minutes for the first time in his career and since Brandon Wright is behind him, and Avery Johnson will never play BW, Humprhies will continue to get huge minutes. He played 54 minutes in 3 OT last night.

by San Francisco Slim on Mar 5, 2011 5:42 PM PST up reply actions

I have. Very impressive. He’s always been a solid rebounder, but this season he’s blossomed into a beastly one, and improved his scoring efficiency a ton to boot.

Per 36: 12.8 pts (.556 ts) / 13.2 reb / 1.4 blk

Also … he’s only 26 and an unrestricted free agent this offseason. With the departures of BWright (and possibly AB?), he could be a very nice addition to the front court mix. I’d be much more excited about him than any of the guys in the draft likely to be available in the #10-14 range.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 5, 2011 5:44 PM PST up reply actions

+1

by The Art Of War on Mar 5, 2011 6:10 PM PST up reply actions

He's a perfect foil to Lopez

who is a skilled but soft big man who hasn’t been rebounding well. I don’t get it either. Lopez was an ok but slightly subpar rebounder last two years. This year it’s downright atrocious. (It is worth noting, in 4 games Lopez has played with Deron….21.8 ppg, 52.7 fg%)

I gotta say, in all honesty we need a player with a low post game more than a limited rebounder like Humphries (as good as he may be) unless that player is bringing Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman level defense

by tafkasam on Mar 5, 2011 6:30 PM PST up reply actions

I don’t think Lopez is soft. He has been unhealthy, not recovering well from illness. He was a good rebounder prior to getting sick. Lopez is a big strong dude, hardly soft inherently. Hopefully, he’ll recover completely and play strong again. His rebounds have picked back up lately, actually.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Mar 5, 2011 8:30 PM PST up reply actions

Evanz is saying he'd be another Lee.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 6, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions

Interesting link

Think it’s always fun to take a look in the past to see the mindset of a different era. The arguments, the predictions, the comparisons, make interesting reading.

==
I’ve got doubts Biedrins will ever turn it around in a Warrior’s uniform. He probably needs to just reset his career somewhere else or a permanent personal psychiatrist.

Hopefully, this off-season somebody will interested enough in his potential to give up a pick. Will be better for Biedrins and the Warriors.

by srsrs on Mar 5, 2011 6:20 PM PST reply actions

Atma for GM!

Actually, I’m curious, what would you do as current Warrior GM?

by tafkasam on Mar 5, 2011 6:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

He would keep Don Nelson.

Fire Chris Mullin shamelessly without any class, tell the coach Dan Gadzuric is better than Andris Biedrins, trade Biedrins for J-Rich, leave the team without any big men, and continually try to act smart quoting himself 3 years in the past.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 5, 2011 7:42 PM PST up reply actions

You weren't even around back then...

"The No. 1 thing (fans need to know): we’re going to do our damnedest to bring the Warriors to respectability on the basketball court." - Joe Lacob

by thecity23 on Mar 5, 2011 7:45 PM PST up reply actions

As Warriors GM

I’d base all my moves on my insights as a quantitative/ qualitative researcher and analyst, as a JV/ rec league hoops 12th man and… and… fail miserably. I would definitely entertain though.

In all seriousness I honestly think I (and 80% of you) would make for far superior GMs than the Warriors past 2 GMs (Chris Mullin and Gary St. Jean). The majority of their moves were just that bad and incomprehensible. (Side note: Sadly sports management is far from a meritocracy. I gave up on my dreams of pursuing that profession after my cousin talked some sense into me a few years back about how it wasn’t a fair game.)

I actually think Larry Riley has been pretty solid and creative. I don’t know how much better I could do than him. He’s had such a huge mess to clean up with a ton of overrated players. It doesn’t help when the local media loudly acts like they have a clue about talent evaluation when they don’t. Now I would’ve’ drafted Greg Monroe over Ekpe Udoh (too early to tell though) and tried to be more active at the past trade deadline (though it seems like Riley’s hands were tied without the ability to trade a draft pick- thank Chris Mullin and the Marcus Williams trade).

Golden State of Mind :: Always keeping it... "Unstoppable Baby!" | BayArea.SBNation.com | SBNation.com

by Atma Brother ONE on Mar 6, 2011 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Now this is the stuff i like to see Atma.

The other stuff where you just bash Andris doesn’t look good my dude, but when you actually write it out logically it’s good stuff.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 6, 2011 7:44 PM PST up reply actions

It's like you guys think $9M a year for a C is a lot or something.

by Spider Jerusalem on Mar 5, 2011 7:09 PM PST reply actions 8 recs

a good basketball team requires all the specialist.

Stop asking player to do this and do that, doing something he is not goo at it. Why play at player’s weakness?? If he is good and rebounding, let him rebounds until he die. If he is good at blocking shots and box-out, stop asking him to get more rebounds. A good team needs a pure shooter, a rebounder, a post player, and pick n roller, a good shot blocker, etc; and it is coach’s job to mix and match to make things work. Look at Miami, too many all around players doing the same thing. It looks good on paper but he creates many weak points in a team. One or two good all around players is enough for a team, we need specialist to make a good basketball team.

Smart is stupid because he keep asking Beans to do post-up, asking Lin to work on mid-range jump shots, asking Law to shoot three, asking D Wright not to be a spot three point shooter; Man, they are not even superstar, they can’t even do what that good at it well enough, why asking them to do other things?

I know D Wright expanded his game and it is kinda work. But keep in mind it requires him to play tons of minutes to gain tons of experiences to get there. Does it help the team? Yes. But I prefer him to be the 3 pts spot shooter because he tried too many mid range shots and missed many.

by ILoveWarriorsGirls on Mar 5, 2011 7:28 PM PST reply actions

AB1 acts like Biedrins wasn't a top 10 center for a good 3 year period...oh wait, and he's complaining about 9 million for that center when stiffs like Jerome James and Channing Frye get 6 million?

Get a life, stop trolling sir.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 5, 2011 7:41 PM PST reply actions

He wasn't

by tafkasam on Mar 5, 2011 7:56 PM PST up reply actions

You’re telling me that season he came out with that long double double streak he wasn’t top 10 at some point then? Even though we had posts on GSOM declaring him a legitimate All Star candidate and some saying that he could be a piece on a championship team?

by belilaugh on Mar 6, 2011 1:51 AM PST up reply actions

Yes, he was not either

He was a very good player, a fairly paid one but to act like he was ever elite is pure homerism. He was a high quality role player at his best.

by tafkasam on Mar 6, 2011 9:07 AM PST up reply actions

Calling him “elite” would be pure homerism — it’s also a pure straw man. I think most people would agree with “high quality role player,” but you kind of need to define the term for it to have any meaning.

You admit that at his 2006-2008 level of production he was “fairly paid.” I’d probably go beyond that to say that $9M, non-escalating, for a 23 year old C with that kind of production is a total bargain. But in the interests of harmony I’ll meet you at “fairly paid.”

Since most reasonable people would agree that he was fairly paid for the level of play he had established at the time of his contract, what exactly are we arguing about? That the Ws should have shelled out for a better crystal ball? That somehow they should have been allowed to subvert the CBA and tender the only non-guaranteed contract in the NBA?

You have to pay for production in the NBA. If you want to keep your productive guys, you eventually have to offer them guaranteed long term deals at market rates. I mean, sure, you can make a legitimate argument that it’s folly to offer a guaranteed pricy contract to anyone except a Top 10 NBA player in their prime. I’d buy that argument. But if you’re going to apply that argument to Biedrins, you can also apply it to everyone the Warriors have signed to a guaranteed multi-year deal since the departure of Webber.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 6, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs

Fans want the FO to call up Nostradamus because any major contract signing.

"Though that reminds me of a quality razor and mr. t story

he said once nellie was freaking out in locker room telling them how badly they sucked in first half. And he was so made he didn’t realize he hadn’t zipped up from his pee and his junk was hanging out." -Tafkasam

by Badly Browned on Mar 6, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions

because = before

"Though that reminds me of a quality razor and mr. t story

he said once nellie was freaking out in locker room telling them how badly they sucked in first half. And he was so made he didn’t realize he hadn’t zipped up from his pee and his junk was hanging out." -Tafkasam

by Badly Browned on Mar 6, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions

I think Atma's point is legitimate

In the fact Warriors overpaid for sake of it. Because he matched the level of the contract his first 1.5 years of it, doesn’t mean he should have been given it.

It’s a discussion which is pointless. But did anyone offer him 8 mil? 7 mil? Why did the Warriors pay 9 when they didn’t have to?

It’s more an inditement on Mullin for poor team building aka Warriors basketball Cohan Era and on.

you can also apply it to everyone the Warriors have signed to a guaranteed multi-year deal since the departure of Webber.

And I’d agree. Warriors management has been continually taken advantage of and appeared desperate.

It’s sad.

by tafkasam on Mar 6, 2011 10:33 AM PST up reply actions

Wasn't James a Isaiah Thomas guy?

And Frye plays PF more with Lopez and Gortat at center. Beans all his career had been a good rebounder, decent shot blocker and average offensive guy. Now he’s a good rebounder, average shot blocker and horrible offensive player.

‎"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon

"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ

by dubzfan on Mar 5, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions

Much like Beans, Atma brings absolutely no positive production to his team either.

I told you I warmed it up, man.

by JR Repertoire on Mar 5, 2011 7:53 PM PST reply actions 8 recs

I liked his last post where he totally insulted many of his readers. What a troll, abusing the bully pulpit.

And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is Monta Ellis when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

by Naticus on Mar 5, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs

lol +1000

by AJC3317 on Mar 6, 2011 1:01 AM PST up reply actions

So now we must bash atma because he doesn’t buy warrior PR hype.

d*** you atma for not justifying tropy murphy and biedrins!

by tafkasam on Mar 6, 2011 1:40 AM PST up reply actions

I’m a fan of Atma (though not all of his opinions), but this was pretty clever.

by belilaugh on Mar 6, 2011 1:52 AM PST up reply actions

i enjoyed reading the old thread.... "thewarriorsrule" was funny.

i think there is a good lesson there tho that players should prove themselves a bit more first….

by PIRATEWARRIOR on Mar 5, 2011 10:26 PM PST reply actions

Uhh...Andris deserved that contract.

He was actually underpaid in 08-09 for his production really. Giving him the deal wasn’t a problem. The problem is the dude’s regressed from a top 10 center at age 22 to a backup caliber player by 24/25. It’s pretty rare you see that.

Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Mar 5, 2011 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

No. He really didn't

by tafkasam on Mar 6, 2011 1:46 AM PST up reply actions

He proved himself pretty well for the first couple years of that contract

You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!

by Reverend_Randy on Mar 6, 2011 12:06 AM PST up reply actions

Atma, you were right.

However, there have been two posts today: this one and Poor Man Commish’s. PMC’s post was an in depth and insightful read. Then there’s this, “Hey remember how Biedrins sucks? Hey you know how I keep saying he sucks? …I’m just saying.”

by ohcleverhansyou on Mar 6, 2011 1:57 AM PST reply actions 3 recs

I don't know

I always got the impression the continued biedrins needling was just to mess with everyone. His opinion is well established, so at this point I’d surmise he’s just looking for a laugh.

by EW0804 on Mar 6, 2011 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Props to

Atma, Fantasy, and their charming little sycophant

(thewarriorsrule) for taking the correct if unpopular position on not to pay Beans. I am a little grateful that even the Warriors front office showed more wisdom than the hoard of posters on GSOM talking up Beans as a $10mil+ player. However the one person most responsible for this disaster is Biedrins himself. Perhaps some time in the D league might motivate him. The other lesson to be learned from this saga is guaranteed contracts are bad: Bad for teams, bad for the league, bad for fans, and bad for good players that actually earn their pay.

With all due respect, I am a Analyst Hall of Fame candidate. If you are offended by my comment, I did write "With all due respect".

by KillaContract on Mar 7, 2011 11:13 AM PST reply actions

Atma, Fantasy, and their charming little sycophant

Haha, I did have a way with words back then…

However the one person most responsible for this disaster is Biedrins himself.

Basically agreed. Psychological issues are a helluva thing.

The other lesson to be learned from this saga is guaranteed contracts are bad: Bad for teams, bad for the league, bad for fans, and bad for good players that actually earn their pay.

Agreed, though I think in judging NBA front office decisions, you have to do so in the context of the real world CBA. In absolute terms, signing a relatively unproven commodity like AB to a long term guaranteed contract was unwise. In real-world terms, I still think it was a move a move that had to be made, especially at the (comparatively) reasonable terms of the contract.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 8, 2011 9:12 AM PST up reply actions