My 2 cents on what should be done

by Babyface Assassin on Apr 8, 2011 3:32 PM PDT

First off, as soon as the season is done, hire Jeff Van Gundy and move Smart back to the asst coach position (if he takes it). Look, I know there's been a lot of disagreement between fans on whether or not to keep Smart as the head coach for next season, and the Smart fans have increased after we recently beat the blazers and the lakers but the bottom line is you cannot base an entire season on a few games, we have been outcoached many times during the season, the rotations keep changing from game to game. Smart is a player's coach, agreed, he's good with the players, great communication and he could possibly be a great coach in the future. The thing is we just don't have the patience to wait for him to develop, plain and simple. Lacob needs to get this team to the playoffs next season, his image and credibility depend on it. We need a coach that would bring experience, not a coach that would experiment things for the first time. Bring Jeff Van Gundy on board as soon as possible so he can start giving his input on the roster: who to keep and who to let go, start his scouting, help with the offseason trades/signings.

Second, the obvious one. Get a Center !!! There are 3 of them that I would love seeing with the Warriors, Deandre Jordan, Nene and Tyson Chandler. All 3 of them seems like they're gonna get paid next season and not quite sure if Warriors got enough money to sign them but the $7 million that the Warriors will have might be able to get us Jordan or Chandler, maybe if we can somehow convince the Mavs for a sign and trade involving Biedrins, Warriors would be in great shape. And Mavs could possibly use Biedrins as a backup C behind Haywood, who knows....

Third, keep the backcourt together. There is no reason to mess up one of the good things the Warriors actually have. The argument is that a small backcourt can't win a championship, this might be true or might not be true, we don't know yet. But it's definitely a good enough backcourt to get us in the playoffs so that's the step we need to go through, we improve the team around this backcourt, we make it to the playoffs, then we evaluate if this backcourt could take us to the next level. We're not just gonna become a championship contender overnight so let's go through this process the right way, which is keep this backcourt, improve the help defense and see what we have.

Fourth, add a 3rd guard. I think everyone expects Riley to get an elite backup PG, that would be great but I also wouldn't mind seeing the 3rd guard being J Rich, maybe I'm just emotionally attach to how he was with the Warriors but having J Rich come off the bench and sharing minutes with Steph and Monta would solidify our backcourt a whole lot. Now the problem in this point is the money, not really expecting J Rich to take the MLE and agree to take a lesser role but I think after all the teams he played for, J Rich still sees the Bay Area as his home, he has a house here, the GS fans never stopped rooting for him, I don't know, it might be a possibility. I was also at the Warriors vs Magic pre-game warmups and Riley was talking to Richardson, it looked like Riley was saying something like "When will we see you with golden state again?" J Rich smiled, shrugged his shoulders and said "Whenever you want me to"

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

If we had JRich

I’d have him start at SF, and slide Dorrell to 2nd unit.

by Dr Jay23 on Apr 8, 2011 6:34 PM PDT reply actions

… making an undersized and defensively pathetic team even more undersized and defensively pathetic.

Reggie Williams ≥ Jason Richardson.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 8, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Reggie is better than a player who's made more 3-point shots than Ray Allen the past 4 seasons?

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 8, 2011 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions

So were using counting stats like that still? Cmon bro.

"Of course, these people couldn’t really have predicted...the joke of a mockery of a sham of a circus of Keith Smart’s nightly rotations. " - Sleepy Freud
Steph Curry and Reggie Williams all day baby!

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 8, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions

well, when the player shoots nearly 40% while shooting the most, it's a big deal.

he may not be more accurate than Ray, but that he makes more is a pretty big deal. he’s one of the best, most consistent 3 point shooters in the game. he’s was the Suns second leading scorer last year (WCF team) and is the Magic’s 2nd leading scorer now…

and we’re comparing him to somebody who’s started a handful of NBA games and is a minor role player on back to back losing teams.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 9, 2011 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions

You don't think playing next to Steve Nash and Dwight Howard have anything to do with his 3 point makes?

Reggie’s the better 3 point shooter without those benefits.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 9, 2011 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions

let me know when Reggie is starting for playoff teams. let me know when he's starting for anyone.

i like reggie, he’s a decent player. but contributing in small amounts to the warriors does not equal contributing in large amounts to good teams. a player that succeeds in a #2 role for the suns or magic isn’t comparable to one that succeeds in a #6 role for the warriors.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 9, 2011 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, but notice how much Jason Richardson's production fell off without Nash.

Don’t look at PPG – look at the whole picture.

Jason is not a guy who can carry a heavy load without somebody else setting him up. It’s not clear he’s any better than Reggie at this point in his career.

by Ronaldinho on Apr 9, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions

Even if you believe that.

There is no way that saying Reggie is either equal or greater than him is a fair statement. Sleepy didn’t even leave it open to the possibility that he’s overvaluing a player who’s done very little in this league. Also be aware that he switched offensive systems mid-season. Maybe he just hasn’t adjusted? We don’t know the reason why he isn’t performing as well.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 9, 2011 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions

“JRich / Reggie this season, per 36
16.5 / 16.3 pts
.552 / .586 ts%
4.4 / 4.8 reb
1.9 / 2.6 ast
1.2 / 1.3 tov
-5.1 / -1.8 apm”
Williams has done better, admittedly in a smaller sample size. However, in spite of that sample size, wouldn’t it be more prudent to give time to a player who may be coming into his prime rather than signing someone older and just as productive? I love Richardson – I have his jersey and everything – but I think we should stick with Williams.

by Fuu on Apr 10, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions

that is almost all he does.

shoot threes,, even when he missed 14 in a row, just keep shooting.

2 for 16 is not bad right?

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Apr 8, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Except that he shoots the most at a still very good 39.sumthin percent over the past 4 years

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 9, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions

even when he missed 14 in a row, just keep shooting.

Even if he’s a good shooter, he should keep shooting good shots.

by Missing Barry on Apr 9, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions

Reggie is better than a player who’s made more 3-point shots than Ray Allen the past 4 seasons?

Well, the main point is that I don’t think either of them should be starting at small forward for a team with more than a passing interest in winning games.

Beyond that … yeah, I’ll stick with Reggie is greater than or equal to JRich, at this stage of their careers. I just don’t see any area where JRich has an edge.

JRich / Reggie this season, per 36
16.5 / 16.3 pts
.552 / .586 ts% (note that JRich’s # is aided by playing 25 games with Nash — it’s fascinating to watch his efficiency regress to his career .539 in the absence of a world-class PG)
4.4 / 4.8 reb
1.9 / 2.6 ast
1.2 / 1.3 tov
-5.1 / -1.8 apm

Eh, check the “or equal to” part — Reggie’s a bit better.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 9, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions

Well, Dorell is better than both of them...

So it doesn’t matter.

"Morrow... That's a two pointer!"
-Kevin Harlan for the 22nd time during an NBA 2k11 exhibition

by don't leave Morrow! on Apr 9, 2011 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions

And if it helps some of you,

he has a good “3pm” stat.

"Morrow... That's a two pointer!"
-Kevin Harlan for the 22nd time during an NBA 2k11 exhibition

by don't leave Morrow! on Apr 9, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions

J-Rich has an edge in actually playing.

He has the edge in actually putting up those stats. No player that struggles to get off the bench in some games for a team like us can be said to be better than a player who is going to be a starter for his second straight playoff team. Even if we were talking about Derek Fisher, Keith Bogans, or Carlos Arroyo. I could understand saying Reggie has the opportunity to be a better NBA player than Jason. But I definitely don’t understand how it is that there’s no way Jason is a better player. Don’t you at least question whether or not Reggie can do what Jason has in his career? Reggie has never been the leading scorer of a team, good or bad. He’s never been the second leading scorer of a WCF team. Reggie hasn’t even been a starter yet.

As a side note, his %AST is actually higher since joining Orlando. Not sure how that indicates he’s playing worse because he no longer has Nash.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 9, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Even if we were talking about Derek Fisher, Keith Bogans, or Carlos Arroyo.

…really?

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions

J-Rich has an edge in actually playing.

Meh. Reggie played 32.8 minutes per game last season (roughly what JRich is playing this year) and put up fairly identical numbers to this year’s. The “you can’t extrapolate from limited minutes” argument has been debunked fairly regularly in the hoops blogosphere; and it seems especially misapplied in the case of Reggie Williams, who doesn’t get into foul trouble, is in good shape, and played starter’s minutes as a rookie.

Don’t you at least question whether or not Reggie can do what Jason has in his career?

I think he probably could — especially if he got to play alongside PGs like Baron and Nash. But that’s not exactly what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about who’s the better player right now.

As a side note, his %AST is actually higher since joining Orlando. Not sure how that indicates he’s playing worse because he no longer has Nash.

With Phoenix this year he was putting up 21.8 pts and 5.0 rebounds per 36 on .574 ts. With Orlando, he’s 14.2 pts / 4.2 reb per 36 on .539 ts. I’m not sure whether you’re being clueless or dishonest by suggesting that 0.4 extra assist per 36 makes up for that drop off. It should also be noted that even with JRich’s uptick in assists, Reggie’s a better passer.

Again: very similar players, but Reggie’s a better passer, better ballhandler, better rebounder (this season) and more efficient scorer. Unless you feel JRich is a vastly better defender (something that isn’t really reflected in the numbers), there’s just not much of an argument to be made for him.

There will be no extra point!

by Sleepy Freud on Apr 10, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Reggie’s numbers are incredibly consistent from last year, essentially unchanged:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willire02.html

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Apr 10, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions

haha

Rec’d

by WestCoastWarrior on Apr 11, 2011 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Don’t you at least question whether or not Reggie can do what Jason has in his career? Reggie has never been the leading scorer of a team, good or bad. He’s never been the second leading scorer of a WCF team. Reggie hasn’t even been a starter yet.

Not really. I don’t see any reason – including looking at games when Reggie did start, last year, because Monta was hurt – to think that he can’t do those sort of things.

But more to the point, it’s not about what players have done, it’s about what they will do. JRich is 30. He’s likely to get a little bit worse every year. By the time Curry, Udoh, and our draft pick this year are reaching their potential, one can expect J-Rich to be in serious decline.

So even if I agreed he was better right now – which I don’t – he’s still not the right choice, between the two, for this team. It makes much more sense to give minutes to Reggie, give him a chance to improve (although we shouldn’t expect to see a lot of improvement from him at this point) and see who he becomes, because if he keeps it up, then he’s a piece we’ll want to have on the team once we’re actually a good team. Adding an older player to squeeze out a couple of short-term wins at the expense of building our core makes no sense.

by Ronaldinho on Apr 10, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Deandre Jordan..

Deandre Jordan is extremely underrated..when he’s in the game, he controls the paint defensively..plus he’s a high energy player..get’s other players pumped..The dubs would love to have him

...And there goes the 1 man fast break

by Moneer Mujaddidi on Apr 8, 2011 8:38 PM PDT reply actions

And the Clippers would love to keep him.

by DubsFan408 on Apr 8, 2011 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Lol. exactly.

Would you want Kaman on our team?

ROMESdavidWOOD37 has taken over the Ongline. He's cool.

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Apr 8, 2011 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions

No please. He’s not that good and seeing his face every game would annoy me. Joakim Noah’s face annoys me too, but at least he’s good.

by DubsFan408 on Apr 8, 2011 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions

LOLLL word.

Before I was like…eh…we dont need Kaman.

But after awhile, I’m thinking he could help this team tremendously. So if we copped him up some how, I wouldn’t complain about it.

I wouldnt trade Monta or Curry for him though. (if it came down to that. Is Kaman an FA? )

ROMESdavidWOOD37 has taken over the Ongline. He's cool.

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Apr 8, 2011 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Help us with what? We’re not going to improve with him.

by DubsFan408 on Apr 8, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions

No he has i think 2 or 3 years left

but I think we should go after him. He would help us and bring a a presence to the center position which we really need. Plus if we could somehow get rid of biedrins, Kamans contract is shorter. And one other thing Babyface Assasin said the Warriors will have 7 mil for this offseason, I though it was more because when we made the Murphy trade and waived hm I thought we still have at least 9 mil there (7 from Gadzuric, and 2 from Wright) plus we will have about another 7 from Radmonavic, and then smaller amounts from everyone else who is on expirings ( I think Law, Amundson, and Thornton) So don’t we have more than 7 million?

by Yii on Apr 10, 2011 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions

What “presence” does Kaman give us, exactly? As far as I can tell, the biggest impact he tends to make is in shooting quite a bit without making that many of his shots.

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions

He's mastered the art of shooting terribly from 3-9 feet.

by Spider Jerusalem on Apr 10, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions

He does have some post game.

And plus what presence does Biedrins give us over the next 4 years with his rather large contract that Kaman can’t give us for 2 years and then be done with his contract?

by Yii on Apr 10, 2011 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions

His post game mostly involves shooting and missing.

by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2011 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions

Okay...

can you tell me how Biedrins is more of a presence for the next 4 years though that Kaman can’t be for 2 years?

by Yii on Apr 11, 2011 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Give me a shot not taken over a shot taken and missed any day. :)

by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2011 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions

So I guess you think that is what is going to help us win....

If we could get rid of Biedrins for Kaman in some sort of deal (I’m not saying straight up) you seriously wouldn’t take that? Wow…Guess Biedrins in your mind will bring us championships for the next couple of years, while also allowing us to sign no one because of his huge contract.

by Yii on Apr 11, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions

It’s more that I see both players as problems.

by Missing Barry on Apr 12, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Exactly...

so doesn’t it make sense to have Kaman as a problem for 2 years instead of Biedrins for 4 years?

by Yii on Apr 12, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions

But then we have to look at Kaman every time the Warriors play.

by Missing Barry on Apr 13, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions

you cannot base an entire season on a few games

To be fair to Keith Smart, you can’t judge his career in one entire season as a Head Coach.

You have every right to be impatient, but you do have to be patient.

It’s like demanding Dorell Wright to be consistent EVERY SINGLE GAME when this is the first time he ever played starter minutes, has the pressure to break Jrich’s 3pt franchise record of 183 made and has had to face fatigue. Should we ship him out immediately and blame it all for his inconsistency of late?

But that’s just the world today. Immediate results or YOU’RE DONE.

If Keith Smart gets fired, then I wouldn’t be surprised. I think he deserves another chance. If Lacob and the front office bring in a stronger bench and brings in a promising big man, then I would hope Keith gets another shot with a deeper roster.

By the way Babyface Assassin, before you rip my comments to shreds, I absolutely agree with you about our backcourt:

The argument is that a small backcourt can’t win a championship, this might be true or might not be true, we don’t know yet

As been sound dropped on the great Damn Bruce show…KNBR…..“TENNN FIFFFFF TEEE”…..

“if it ain’t broke

…

“DON’T BREAK IT!!!”

ROMESdavidWOOD37 has taken over the Ongline. He's cool.

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Apr 8, 2011 9:12 PM PDT reply actions

I don’t think Smart should be fired based on our W-L record. I think he should be fired for the way he achieved it. Monta has played far too much, while Curry and Reggie haven’t played enough. There hasn’t been a steady improvement as the season has progressed.

I also feel that the franchise needs a coach with big time credentials and noteriety around the league, to help change the perception of the team.

by Uwe Blog on Apr 9, 2011 12:27 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs

Exactly.

W-L is not how i’m evaluating Smart completely. It’s how he’s done it. and by seeing how he did it, you know why we didn’t win more.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 9, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions

I partially agree with you on the patience part, there are certain things you should be patient about. We need to be patient on Curry’s growth and development, we need to be patient about team chemistry, we need to be patient the GSW image to change and become attractive to elite FA. But being patient about a 1st year coach to gain experience? I don’t agree. Look, as Uwe Blog correctly put it, “Smart shouldn’t be fired based on the W-L record but the way he achieve it”.

Monta is averaging 41 mins per game or something in that ballpark on a non playoff team. Curry (the franchise future) is sitting watching Acie Law take his minutes. When the team is up by 20, all starters are in the game playing the fourth quarter and not giving a chance for the bench to come in and gain valuable experience. We can’t even talk about the rotations because it was so bad and inconsistent. In the first half of the season, bench players who played well in one game, never got rewarded with more PT in the next game (i.e. B Wright, Carney, C Bell, Gadz)

And as far as the style of play, it has been mediocre, it seems like Smart was willing to let the offense downgrade to focus more on defense, which is fine, it makes sense….But the team was never able to improve their defense so at the end we lost some of our offensive edge and still didn’t improve on defense, this was a lose-lose situation for us. Smart’s halfcourt plays are mediocre and predictable.

Having said all that, Smart is not a BAD coach. To his defense, he had to preach defense to one of the worst defensive teams in the league, he didn’t have a dominant Center to guard the paint or provide some low post scoring, D Lee’s elbow injury really hurt the momentum and although team chemistry was good, the roster needed some time to learn how to play together. So in summary, Smart might become a good coach in the future, all I’m saying is we need to win now, we need experience now.

by Babyface Assassin on Apr 9, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions

we need to be patient about team chemistry

Meh, I don’t really agree. This is high level basketball we’re talking about. Guys either know how to play it or don’t, they don’t need two years of playing with a specific player to figure out the right play to make and then all of a sudden have to relearn it as soon as they’re playing with a different player.

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions

I do think there is some sort of chemistry.

But it’s not that big of a deal, and you certainly shouldn’t use that as an excuse to keep a bad team around.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 10, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions

I’m sure there’s a little bit, I just don’t think it’s something worth worrying about. “Fit” is important – you need players whose skills complement each other. But guys don’t just learn to do things with one player that they can’t do with a different teammate with similar skills, you know?

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree.

But i think some people combine fit and chemistry.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 10, 2011 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, I definitely do that, but in the context of this conversation it was initially being talked about like just waiting and letting these guys play together for multiple years will magically bring out some skills in them they apparently don’t have yet.

by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2011 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions

Because of their youth I think a few years together might actually do that.

Curry’s development as a floor leader over the next few years could bring out some skills in other players, for example. DWright’s comfort with playing starter minutes and transition from a bench player on the Heat, to one of the top guys/leaders on this team could have impacts on other players too, Udoh’s comfort level as he plays more NBA minutes and has more time playing alongside Curry (as he develops too) may help his offensive game…
Beadrins spending more time with a shrink, getting medicated to address his chemical emballances… Could have benefit too…
Not that all these things are a given to happen, but why not? We dont know, and the way things are developing, there’s no reason not to.

by WestCoastWarrior on Apr 11, 2011 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Well, the reason not to would be we’re mediocre for a number of years. I do think Curry and Udoh have the most room for growth, though, along with Biedrins if he can turn back into the player he used to be.

by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions

along with Biedrins if he can turn back into the player he used to be.

can we agree that we will only use this excuse for one more season?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Apr 11, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Oh, I’m pretty much done with the excuse altogether. I’m never going to rule out the possibility of him returning to form, but at this point, I’ve officially written Biedrins off.

by Missing Barry on Apr 11, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, me too.

I came into this season pencilling-in a return to form. I won’t do that next year barring some significant evidence, and I’m not even sure what that evidence would look like during the offseason. Given that he could have a great game and then go right back to sucking, and given that he doesn’t seem to have confidence issues in practice, I think it’s one of those “until he does it consistently in a few weeks worth of NBA games, we won’t know he’s back.”

by Ronaldinho on Apr 11, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions

sort of like waiting for Alex Smith…

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Apr 11, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions

No to JVG. Just no.

He seems to lost his grasp on what’s reality and what isn’t since joining ESPN. I don’t trust that he still has the same coaching ability.

http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/

by Brownie13 on Apr 8, 2011 11:20 PM PDT reply actions

jerry sloan!!!!

"You know whats funny? I always thought uhm dogs lay eggs and I learned something new today" Peter Griffin

by HUNGRY HUNTER on Apr 8, 2011 11:58 PM PDT up reply actions

+1

by Uwe Blog on Apr 9, 2011 1:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

I don’t particularly think a “small backcourt” has to be a problem (see Detroit Pistons, 1990). A “bad defensive backcourt”, however, is a problem. The real problem with Monta and Steph isn’t that they’re small, it’s that they’re bad on D. It’s not like it’s even just a size issue, either – neither is a good defender for their size. That one of them is going to have a size mismatch just exacerbates the problem.

by Missing Barry on Apr 9, 2011 10:53 AM PDT reply actions

Good point but....

You have to step out of what the media has been saying about our backcourt defense for a second, we as Warrior fans got to watch Monta step up and guard the SG this season, in my opinion and that’s just my opinion, Monta has raised his defense level from poor to fair in my book.

But you’re right, we’re still hurting defensively, Curry can’t stay in front of his man, Monta’s defense is still not reliable and D Lee’s help defense and rotation are not there but the way we can fix this is implement team defense, it wont happen overnight but if we can a big body down low with Lee (i.e Jordan or Chandler) and Curry improves his footwork during the offseason, the defense wont look so bad.

by Babyface Assassin on Apr 9, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions

if we can a big body down low with Lee (i.e Jordan or Chandler)

Udoh?

"Morrow... That's a two pointer!"
-Kevin Harlan for the 22nd time during an NBA 2k11 exhibition

by don't leave Morrow! on Apr 9, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Jordan is worse defensively than Udoh.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 9, 2011 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, not sure why you’re so confident in that….

Anyways, Jordan is a guy with the physical traits to be an excellent defender. He also has true center size, rebounds, and basically fills exactly what we need – a guy with the size to guard post players down low, who can also protect the rim and help shore up our rebounding. Even if he’s still learning on the fundamental side….he’s younger than Udoh, that stuff will come…

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions

RAPM doesn't like Jordan

He’s -1.7 overall, -1.3 on defense

with three seasons under his belt, that’s more than enough sample to suggest he’s not as good as you think he is

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Apr 10, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Of course, those were age 20, 21 and 22 years, and his first 3 years in the NBA. We’re trying to isolate a “true talent level” here that we should expect to be improving substantially over that time period. Anyways, I don’t have a problem with the general notion that he’s more raw skills than production right now (in other words, has the talent to be really good, but doesn’t really play winning basketball yet), but I’d definitely prefer Jordan long term. As for Gov’s comment, Udoh might be the better defender right now, but I wouldn’t necessarily assert that as fact. Not sure we can say that with a large enough degree of confidence yet, you know?

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions

well, in 3 years, Jordan hasn't really become a good defender

that seems to be a fact

maybe he’ll improve, but how much are we going to risk spending to find out?

_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Apr 10, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions

I’m not sure we can really say that he isn’t good is a point I’m getting at. I’m not comfortable saying it’s a fact that he isn’t a good defender, and I don’t think the evidence strongly suggests it, either. Even if we have good ways of measuring defense (specifically with +/-), it’s variability really makes it tough to come to any conclusions on players in limited samples, especially when we’re talking about guys whose talent level is changing quite a bit over a 3 year sample.

I think the evidence also does suggest he will improve. How much is more of an open question, but young guys do improve, and defense in particular seems to be something that tends to peak later in guys careers as opposed to earlier.

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions

As for actually acquiring Jordan…well….I don’t think we have any actual chance of that so I’m not sure our conversation is very meaningful at all. ;)

by Missing Barry on Apr 10, 2011 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions

it's meaningful to establish the criteria for signing a free agent, though

We’ve made so many mistakes in the past, that we should try to learn from them. Signing guys to soon, for too much, for too long.

It’s not just us. Many teams make the same mistakes. But the teams that are run well tend not to make those mistakes. I prefer to be like those teams.

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The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog

by Evanz on Apr 10, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Jordan has the skills to be a good/great defender.

But Udoh’s a better defender right now. We already know what we have with Udoh on defense. DeAndre Jordan could be another Dorell Wright, a good overall player with good defensive tools, but not necessarily anything better than below average or average defensively at best. I’ve been disappointed with Dorell on defense. He hasn’t been a shut down type of defender at all. He’s been our best perimeter defender getting any minutes but i would like him to get better.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 10, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions

People expecting Wright to be a good defender were victims of their own expectations.

You had synergy, you probably saw how poor his defensive numbers were. He’s a very good offensive player and a good rebounder who isn’t totally incompetent on defense. That’s what he’s been his entire career.

by Spider Jerusalem on Apr 10, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions

I saw his synergy numbers but i thought maybe it was just a fluke.

by GovernorStephCurry on Apr 10, 2011 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Fair enough. There was only one season of data.

by Spider Jerusalem on Apr 11, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Since there seems to be an agreement that age is more important than NBA experience

I was curious if anyone knows what the estimated trade off is?
For example, if player A has 3 years experience in the league at age 21, but is 3 years younger than player B who has 1 year experience at 24, how do you calculate the advantage one player has over the other (if any), given just these two factors?

by WestCoastWarrior on Apr 11, 2011 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions