Possible Destinations for Biedrins?
by lilboots on Jun 1, 2011 4:11 PM PDT
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PrintIt is believed that Andris Biedrins, despite his large contract and diminished impact, still holds enough stock to be dealt. I wanted to hear some ideas regarding a suitable destination for Andris, as I could only come up with one, myself.
Philadelphia gets: Andris Biedrins
Warriors get: Andres Nocioni, Jodie Meeks
Nocioni has 3 years left on his contract for a significantly less amount of pay. He's a swingman who brings a lot of grit and edginess to a team. He is not a fun player to compete against at all. The Warriors would do well to grant Andris a new opportunity to find himself in another city, while adding an element of veteran toughness to their perimeter defense.
I don't know if Philly is the place most suited for Biedrins, but they are in need of a center. The east coast has a greater Eastern European population, which may or may not serve as some kind of personal allure, I don't know.
Evan Turner and Thaddeus Young will continue to improve and impinge on Nocioni's role. I could be very wrong, but it seems that both teams are addressing a need, consequently allowing the Warriors a good sum of future cap room that could assist them in the process of structuring a new contract for Stephen Curry.
Does anybody have any suggestions about what should be done with Andris, and more specifically, what would that situation embellish for both parties involved?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Seeing as how Biedrins' value couldn't get much lower
I would like to see how this “rebirth” project goes. Supposedly the plan was to go “boot camp” on him; break him down and rebuild from scratch so to speak. He’s not like Jamarcus, as he was always in great shape and competitive. Just when he was returning to some semblance of his former self last season he got that ankle injury and the decision came down to play Udoh as much as possible. The upside to his recent woes is that teams might take the chance that a change of scenery might reignite his confidence.
It might take until draft day to trade Monta, which is a shame because it really leaves a lot of issues on the table until that happens.
Someone tell Rowell we're out of toilet paper again.
he was always in great shape and competitive.
The competitive angle seemed to be what went with him. On the boards? Competitive. On offense? He curled up into a fetal ball of nothing.
I also question what sort of shape he was in. He certainly didn’t gain bulk in his arms, but he moved up and down the court slower, and not just a lazy slower. He appeared at times to move like someone who was carrying a bit too much weight. It’s entirely speculative. He might have put on some pounds around the midsection where it does little good for his game. His face looked a bit softer too, in very minor speculative support for this not completely wild but still mostly speculative, uh, ‘speculation.’
by jae on Jun 1, 2011 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know if this has been corroborated, but @warriorsworld has implied on Twitter a number of times that Biedrins is a smoker. I wonder if the habit got away from him while he was rehabbing his back/groin, and his apparent decrease in baseline-to-baseline hustle is him simply getting winded. But I agree: he’s never seemed like much of an off-season worker.
Formerly ffgolden.
I've wondered that too.
Or, it’s just a joke about Euros. They used to say that about Vlade Divac, though in his case, I think it actually WAS true. I mean, look at him. :)
by Lacob's Ladder on Jun 1, 2011 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I think its a joke. But Sheeds crazy.
"If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." - Phil Jackson
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 1, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
He has good reason to smoke...
If I shot free throws that bad I’d need stress reliever too! But seriously, I’m sure the stoges have nothing to do with it. It’s definitely a confidence issue and only he can figure that problem out.
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A friend of mine
saw him smoking a cigarette at a gas station outside his car. I’m not judging his personal life, but I don’t like the idea of pro’s doing stuff detrimental to their health. Especially pro’s worth the kind of money ’Dris is making.
Sounds great, but...
Given Beans status as MIA, might need to sweeten pot with our number 11 pick in the draft to get this done.
Of course, if we bring in Budenholzer, who worked with a certain Big Fundamental, then maybe Beans can resurface. Kinda like how Harbaugh is supposed to salvage Alex Smith’s career. Sigh.
I'd rather see if Beans can pull a Lazarus than watch Nocioni for three years.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 1, 2011 4:54 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Wasn't this the same thing we were saying last year?
I understand the reasoning, but if Biedrins puts together another year like last year, he becomes nothing more than an expiring contract. Right now, at least other teams seem to think they can get something out of him. I’d rather play it safe and dump him if a deal comes along.
Anything that dumps the salary or at least lessens the impact.
In this case, I would hate to have to root for Nocioni, but at least he’d give some quality minutes and provide some defense/toughness. And Meeks is actually a decent prospect off the bench. It’s not a terrible deal.
We have to accept that the W’s will not get value for Biedrins, and will probably get less as time goes on and he continues to disappoint. So to get rid of him without taking back an equally horrific contract and without giving up a first rounder is not a bad starting point.
The only thing that would make me hesitate if I’m Riley (or whoever’s making the decisions at this point) is the possibility of the new CBA allowing the W’s to potentially get rid of Biedrins without having to deal with the financial hit.
We have to accept that the W’s will not get value for Biedrins, and will probably get less as time goes on and he continues to disappoint.
actually as time goes on, beans will inch closer to “expiring contract” status, increasing his trade value.
Yeah, didn't bother to get into that...
But if you look at recent trends, expiring contracts aren’t even worth that much. The W’s essentially got a 2nd rounder for Gads and Wright. With the new CBA, an expiring contract could be worth even less.
if moved to a hard cap
i think an expiring contract would be worth more. quickest way to get cap space and rebuild
If moved to a hard cap, there’ll also likely be a clause that allows the W’s to get out of Biedrins’s contract anyway. And I’d rather not take another 2 years of his uninspired play just to wait for him to maybe become valuable. But I agree that with a hard cap, an expiring contract is, in theory, worth more.
Standing pat
I like Biedrins’ chances if Budenholzer comes to work for the franchise. Of course, the downside of that would be Biedrins failing again for another season, despite the favorable new environment and attention he would undoubtedly receive. How can you trade a commodity once he’s unable to succeed through a situation that was tailored to his benefit?
I’d love to see Biedrins pull that Lazarus too. But if he doesn’t, we’d run out of broken roots to pull us out of that ditch. 27 mil is a lot of money.
Keep Biedrind for now
He was a good player who you can count on I thing the biggest thing for him is his free throw as in his avoid drewing contact and go to free throw line that make him look bad. The team need to get someone who can fix his FT than he will be fine.
by sfniners4life on Jun 1, 2011 5:11 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
It’s more than just FT problems at this point, though. He’s not making good reads on offense and not making the cuts he should. Those are bad habits he’s developed, and you don’t just gain your confidence and magically rid yourself of the bad habits. He’s going to have to start over working on making the right plays offensively.
Also, his defense was an issue, too.
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2011 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
It is believed that Andris Biedrins, despite his large contract and diminished impact, still holds enough stock to be dealt.
is there any evidence for this premise? believed by who? we are in a no-win scenario with AB – his stock is so low we’d have to give him away or worse (given our history with Crawford and others, it can be done if we want to) while we are woefully thin on bigs – as much as it pains to type this, our most likely scenario for improvement is to hope for a resurrection under (another) new coach who might raise his performance and trade value
~ an original fan of the SF Warriors
is there any evidence for this premise?
The best evidence would be the alarming number of players who fans label as ‘untradeable’ who are later traded.
by jae on Jun 1, 2011 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Evidence
I can’t recall where I read this. I might need a couple of days to find it, but I believe somebody in the front office was quoted as saying that Biedrins is still demanding interest around the league. Granted, I don’t know what that “interest” entails, as far as what kind of value we’d be getting back. Anyway, I’ll look for the quote and post a link, unless somebody else beats me to it (by all means, please).
As far as a new coach coming in to resurrect Biedrins, I think the line separating Biedrins from his juice, may be a little more blurred than many let on. Many believe that it’s stemming from his unsuccessfulness at the stripe. I used to attend that school of thought, until he started to bumble passes, abandon the good fight for a rebound, and foul out of games in the 3rd quarter.
Biedrins has to really want to get out of this hole. A serious nut-check is in demand. I wish I could be more enthusiastic in my faith, but after Keith Smart spent an off-season, and much of the regular season selling fans a new and improved Goose, my belief in him caught lumps from a serious beat down, only to watch him disappear to the bench, and then into an embarrassingly convenient season-ending injury.
I just don’t know how much more we can give him. Maybe he felt the spotlight too much…or maybe a return to the starting lineup after that horrible year was just too much too soon, who knows. I’m just a little slower now to bring my gear to the river and cheer on the Andris Biedrins revival, after seeing him fail so miserably when he had a head coach, totally standing in his corner.
I believe somebody in the front office was quoted as saying that Biedrins is still demanding interest around the league.
I definitely don’t doubt someone said that. You could probably get Lacob, West, Myers, and Riley to all sing it in unison right now. But the question is, would you believe them? I’m sure they’re hoping someone will :)
by Lacob's Ladder on Jun 1, 2011 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d join the choir. He’s young and was successful for the majority of his career…no major injuries – it still looks pretty hopeful. I honestly think that a change of scenery is the best thing for people some times. I know that’s been true in my case, at least.
If they really want to keep him around and give him another go, I’d love for Jerry West to give him a boost. He just seems like that experienced, reaffirming voice that could speak some wisdom to Andris and build his confidence. That kind of greatness and presence really rubs off on people. I know it’d definitely give me a boost.
I'm with you
I own a friggin’ Biedrins jersey for chrissakes! My ultimate wish is for him to get his head right and improve his game here, as a Warrior. And, with the changes going on around here (coaches, front office, teammates), I’m hoping it’ll be like the change of scenery that might be needed to make that possible.
I just feel like I was saying this exact same thing last year……and now we’re here :(
by Lacob's Ladder on Jun 1, 2011 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Do yourself a favor and just burn that Biedrins jersey. Or as a practical joke on a poor ignorant indigenous native, you can donate it to a charity that will send it to the 3rd world. At least they could wear it with less shame.
With all due respect, I am a Analyst Hall of Fame candidate. If you are offended by my comment, I did write "With all due respect".
by KillaContract on Jun 2, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
haha
I still wear my Biedrens jersey
…and yeah, it has pretty much devolved into a joke at this point
I’ve heard this so many times "I hope you are the “we believe” Biedrens"
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jun 3, 2011 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I used to attend that school of thought, until he started to bumble passes, abandon the good fight for a rebound, and foul out of games in the 3rd quarter.
Same here. This past season, he didn’t do anything the way he used to. His whole game is broken, and it’s going to take more than confidence fairies to get it back. A lot of hard work will have to go into correcting the bad habits he’s developed.
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe somebody in the front office was quoted as saying that Biedrins is still demanding interest around the league.
Ol’ Bob Fitzgerald said it on his radio show. He said something along the lines “what if I told you that the player most GM’s inquire about is Andris Biedrins?”
I’m not sure what could be gained from trading Biedrins at this point. Maybe a salary dump, but with Howard looking to re-sign with the Magic, I can’t think of any other C off hand that would be a game changer who is coming free in the next year or two (I think Nene and M. Gasol a fine C’s, but I do not regard either as game changing material).
Teams that I think could use a C include: Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Philly, NY, maybe Portland, and maybe San Antonio. What can you get from AB from those teams? It seems to me that given the dearth of 5’s around the association, AB’s use-value versus his exchange-value is greater to the W’s than other teams. Ironically, the dearth of C’s may cause another team’s GM to overvalue his use-value, but that seems doubtful to me.
by fuller over bryant on Jun 2, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, it would be unwise to deal Andris before the new CBA unless it’s totally in our favor. If teams get the sudden ability to void one contract, as rumors have stated, wiping him off the books might be a better option than giving away assets or taking on other problems/bad contracts to move him.
Unless we can ditch Biedrins for expirings, and then void Lee’s contract, and trade Monta for the #2 pick… ;)
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2011 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is the best idea I heard this offseason.
by Prince.Charming on Jun 2, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Offseason for us I mean lol. Though I’m still wondering whether #2 pick or Iggy for Monta is better. Undecided =/.
by Prince.Charming on Jun 2, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Though I’m still wondering whether #2 pick or Iggy for Monta is better
I have been agonizing over those 2 “non” choices for a while now. ;-)
by Only In Fairfax on Jun 2, 2011 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
there is zero way philly would ever take that
….biedrins is stuck with us till his contract runs out sorry
It's lonely being the only Warriors fan at UMass :(
Or until he joins the long list of ‘untradeable’ players who were traded despite being ‘untradeable’.
by jae on Jun 2, 2011 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
keep monta
the thing is…Monta has a huge contract and Beidrins has a huge contract…the problem is this…Bbeidrins has to be packaged with either Monta or Curry…so it’ll be Curry and his still rookie contract with Beidrins for whomever….moving Monta to PG.
no team is stupid enough
to accept a package of biedrins and monta without giving trash in return
I would not give up Curry just to move Biedrins. His contract isn’t even Gilbert Arenas status bad. And move Monta to PG? Like that worked out well the first time.
Yeah Biedrins contract hurts, but $9M a year fixed as a sunk cost really isn’t that bad. We’ve seen a lot worse.
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2011 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it's sunk cost.
Depending on the hire, there’s a chance that Biedrins can be whipped into something useful.
by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 2, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Your concept of sunk cost is lacking. Sunk costs cannot be recovered by definition and this term when applied to Biedrins is poetic perfection. The return on investment or future usefulness of Biedrins is not relevant to the problem that the balance of his contract is guaranteed and must be paid and must count against the cap. An argument that his cost is not sunk would be that the new CBA could change or void his contract or he might be convinced to renegotiate a buy out.
With all due respect, I am a Analyst Hall of Fame candidate. If you are offended by my comment, I did write "With all due respect".
by KillaContract on Jun 2, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Sigh. Applying the concept of sunk cost to sports contracts is a flawed exercise.
It gets used a lot in baseball, I was indulging MB because I assumed that was the context he was using it in.
But thanks for the attempt at an economics lesson.
(and technically, the balance of his contract is not sunk cost. His contract for this season is sunk cost, but his salary for future seasons is not; the possibility remains that someone else will pay it).
by Spider Jerusalem on Jun 2, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
why the hell...
would you give away your best 3-point shooter for a soft injury prone center?
Well, Nocioni isn’t that good, and he’s pretty much out of the Sixers rotation at this point anyways (10 minutes total in the playoffs, for example). He’s not their best 3 point shooter, by the way, surprisingly enough, Jrue Holliday actually has a higher career % than him, and Jodie Meeks and Lou Williams can both stretch the floor, too. Also, they have Jason Kapono, but he’s pretty much not an NBA caliber player at this point in time.
by Missing Barry on Jun 2, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
How about if we send the Pistons Biedrins and we get Hamilton?
They want to get rid of him and they need a center…It would be a gamble for them but if it works and he returs to form they have a good building block. We would have Hamilton for 1 or 2 years (depends on the CBA because it could knock off one of those years).
Maybe the Cavs get ricky and take a chance on Biedrins? Maybe not straight up but maybe we could do something for Jamison. I think he would be an expiring.
Charlotte, maybe we can do something to get Diaw?
The Raptors need a big (especially one who will defend and rebound) they don;t have much that matches up salary wise but maybe Calderon? He would have 2 years left and 9 mil each yr. Would also be a solid backup. We can give up a pick too. Or shoot even trade for Solomon Alabi. he sucks and would have a 670,000 expiring contract after 2 years (not that it is special or anything) but with the need for a center and the use of the trade exception from Chris Bosh they could do that. I doubt any big name players will sign there on their own so if Biedrins goes there he may get an increased role and if he returns to form he could draw others there maybe. I wonder if it will work, because we should actually look into something like that.
a lot to process here
I appreciate your input. I think Toronto would be an excellent fit for Andris. I really think the Raptors will look to draft a center, and should have a shot at one of the top 3 guys (Kanter, Lithuanian, Bis Boy). If that happens, I don’t think they take the gamble of reviving Andris’ career.
I thought about Rip from Detroit, but he’s honestly a pretty bad fit. He’s a volume scorer and doesn’t give you the kind of efficiency Reggie can produce at the same position for much less money. They also have Monroe doing a good job for them.
I don’t think Charlotte wants to part ways with Diaw. He’s a strong rotation player for them, and he’s extremely versatile.
Jamison would be hard to collect as well. They would want a pick, possibly multiple picks. Good ideas, and it won’t be easy. Im glad West and Myers are on board. I’m much more confident in our situation now.
by lilboots on Jun 2, 2011 1:12 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Indiana
Posey for Andris straight up
"There is nothing like a wise phrase or quote to help convince others that your decision makes sense." - Anon
"If you're ever in a fair fight, then your tactics suck." ಠ_ಠ
I like Posey
The only problem I see this deal posing, is the fact that they (Indy) already have Hibbert, along with Jeff Foster at the 5, who isn’t a bad player at all. They aren’t lacking the depth at center to be willing to take on Andris’ contract.
I’d happily trade Monta for Hibbert and a pick swap, though. Or even Ellis for George + Collison. I really think West will advise some kind of deal involving Monta for a big. Hopefully his x-ray vision can spot an underrated prospect who will develop more than nicely.
by lilboots on Jun 2, 2011 12:55 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Does anyone think if we brought in Rick Barry to help AB with his free throws it would improve his game ;)))
Hopeful retirement?
"If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." - Phil Jackson
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 2, 2011 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure it does Jae.
Theres a reason there is a rumor that the Blazers are trying to coax Roy into retiring.
"If you meet the Buddha in the lane, feed him the ball." - Phil Jackson
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 2, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty certain it does not, unless it’s a medical retirement where a player is ruled to be medically unable to play. Unless this is the case, and Biedrins simply deciding he doesn’t like playing anymore does not fit this bill, the money counts.
This is a key statement:
“”http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q55" >If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not [emphasis mine] receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player. "
Theres a reason there is a rumor that the Blazers are trying to coax Roy into retiring.
Yes, there is a reason. One is because people make up rumors without actually understanding the NBA salary cap. I
The other is that Roy might actually be unable to continue playing and a league approved physician agrees with this and certifies this to be the case. It’s not just a case where they can ask him to walk away and have his money come off the cap. He really has to be too injured to continue. And it’s very different from a wishful thinking that Biedrins decides he’s just over being a Warrior and walks away.
by jae on Jun 2, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
What if a league approved psychiatrist certifies that Biedrins is psychologically incapable to continue playing? I think the case for this would be very easy to make.
With all due respect, I am a Analyst Hall of Fame candidate. If you are offended by my comment, I did write "With all due respect".
by KillaContract on Jun 2, 2011 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to think of reprocussions
Gives Warriors a negative image again, a la fining monta 3 mil
I think the case for this would be very easy to make.
I cannot tell if this is heavily hinted with sarcasm or not. There’s no precedent for a player being considered psychologically unfit to continue playing. I doubt very, very much that you’d get a league psychiatrist to say that he was incapable of playing. He’s not incapable of playing. He might be incapable of playing particularly well, but that’s not the standard for a medical retirement.
A league psychiatrist may not agree that he was incapable of playing, but I am sure we could find a Bay Area psychiatrist to give him electroshock treatments. It couldn’t hurt his game and would be worth a try. Biedrins getting electroshocked can’t look much different than him shooting free throws. It might even look more natural.
With all due respect, I am a Analyst Hall of Fame candidate. If you are offended by my comment, I did write "With all due respect".
by KillaContract on Jun 3, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you saying he should go back home? In that case, he’d have to take a bus ride over the border to Latvia.
@DoctorKajita
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 2, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
True, Gortat is intimidating.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 3, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Not bad.
How about Portland? They need a C if Oden gets hurt again. Camby is getting old. W’s get Wes Matthews.
Or Knicks? W’s get Landry Fields.
Or Atlanta? We get Jamal Crawford or Josh Smith.
"Go ahead. Make my day."
I am struggling to see why any of those teams would take his contract though
Unless he shows signs of life next year
Possible Destinations for Biedrens:
anywhere they want him
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
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