Warriors current rotation?
by Clip$ on Jun 30, 2011 12:10 AM PDT
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PrintAfter the draft, our only basketball bay area team has added 3 new, exciting, and potentially incredible players to the already INCREDIBLE roster (Thompson, Jenkins, and Tyler)-->yes, i am being VERY optimistic.
Our starting rotation as of now, is most likely:
curry---ellis---d. wright---d.lee---udoh
Since this is my first fan post, i've always wanted to say this : MORE AFTER THE JUMP!!!
The only questions about our starting 5 is (1) if ellis gets traded, (2) if biedrins starts instead of udoh, and (3) if D. Lee plays the 5...
Assuming we resign almost all our major players, we should have the following capable backups to lend a hand, and before i continue, i am excluding Acie Law and radmanovic, :
jenkins/LIN---thompson/R. WILLIAMS---thornton/WILLIAMS---J.Tyler/AMUNDSON/jeff adrien---Biedrins/TYLER
that looks pretty good to me, especially if we add a couple lockdown defenders (Tony Allen?) and WHEN we add a couple other players via trade, free agency, D-League, undrafted rookies (Ben Hansborough, anyone) etc...
I actually think, if we need a scoring burst while going small, we could take Ekpe out and use Lee at the 5 and add thompson at the 3, therefore moving dorell to power forward...
If we look for a prototypical "backup 5", it would depend on who Mark Jackson think can handle it better, Lin or new draftee Charles Jenkins, then Klay, thornton, tyler and biedrins who i believe can be solid in a backup role...This would then leave Reggie Williams, LAST YEAR's 6th man, as a non prominent figure of the rotation.
Obviously, much of this will have changed at the beginning of the season after acquiring and dumping players. I believe everything that i have written basicaly depends of IF we resign Al Thornton, if not, it could change a lot.
I believe this is a 7-8 seed team, and after 1-2 midseason trades, maybe even 5-6 seed and advancing into 2nd round!!! You have to believe curry will raise assists + points, monta will continue his torrid scoring, wright will develop his all around game, and D Lee will bounce back!
WE BELIEVE (is that kinda getting old....?), that the warriors will make the playoffs!!!!
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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4?
I’m also wondering if its lin/jenkins, thompson, and williams at the backup 1,2,3 spots,
who should be the main backup power forward? tyler, thornton or adrien?
Your forgeting Amundson.
:GSW-707:
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jun 30, 2011 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Overlooked Numbers
Jeremy Lin had the 2nd best assist to turnover ratio on the team, after Steph Curry. He really put it together after his D-league stint. His ratio looks even better if you look at Lin’s stats from mid-February to the end of the season. Extremely high assist/turnover ratio, steals/turnover ratio, shot 52% from the field. If you take out his first two months where he was adjusting to the NBA, his PER the last 9 months was above the average for a NBA starter. Even counting in his first two months, his season adjusted plus/minus was still 2nd best on the team.
Jeremy Lin completely undervalued
Check out this NBA analyst, who correctly identified Landry Fields and Wesley Matthews before anyone else
http://hoopsanalyst.com/blog/?p=487#more-487
Based on college production, Jeremy Lin’s most comparable comps are:
Andre Miller
Penny Hardaway
Steve Francis
Gary Payton
Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Rajon Rondo
Greg Grant
Bobby Dixon
George Hill
Yes Lin played in a small school. But the analyst notes that Lin made his mark “when he averaged 23.3 PPG while shooting 63% in a 3-game stretch against UConn, BC and Georgetown. Typically players from small colleges see their numbers dip, sometimes drastically, when stepping up in competition. That Lin was able to not only be competitive, but excel in these situations is impressive.”
Based on other NBA players from small schools, Jeremy Lin’s most comparable comps are:
Terry Porter
Dee Brown
Lindsey Hunter
Speedy Claxton
Antonio Daniels
Derek Fisher
Anthony Johnson
Jose Barea
Eric Maynor
George Hill
Jeremy Lin needs to sign with another team. His NBA PER of 14.9 is better than almost half the players in the league. He finished with the 2nd best plus/minus on the team. He led all NBA guards in per-48-min steals and blocks.
by BayMind on Jun 30, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The difference between Lin and all of those guys is that all of those guys were decent to good right off the bat. Lin was neither of those things.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 30, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
RE
you said: [those guys were decent to good right off the bat. Lin was neither of those things.]
-——-
What is your definition of “decent to good”, aside from whatever subjective biases, prejudices, or eyes you are using to base this off of?
In comparable minutes Lin already proved he was the best PG off the bench for GS last year, and vastly superior to Acie Law who was one of the most harmful players on the floor when he played.
Lin was a solid defensive player
who was not capable of doing anything else at the NBA level. He can’t shoot, he isn’t a good passer and he turns the ball over like crazy.
He’s better than Acie Law, but Acie Law is one of the worst players in the league. There is a lot of distance between “one of the worst players in the league” and “average.”
aside from whatever subjective biases, prejudices, or eyes you are using to base this off of?
My eyes almost rolled out of my head. That’s too funny.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 30, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
he didn't turn the ball over that much
he actually had twice as many steals as turnovers
Really?
Hm. I knew he had a lot of steals, I thought he also had a lot of turnovers.
I actually don’t dislike Jeremy Lin at all, but come on. He’s, at best, a backup guard in this league.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 30, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree he's not likely to be more than a backup pg
but he’s a perfectly capable 12th man with some potential if he can develop something resembling a jump shot.
small sample size but yea
5.32 ast, 2.28 TO, and 4.18 stls per 36
I firmly believe that Lin’s calling card will be on the defensive end. He has the desire to play defense, and it’s not counterfeit. Desire and focus could earn a player’s career as a defensive specialist. I think that Lin is man enough for the job.
He’s got a pair of quick hands, an admirable motor, he anticipates well, he commits to contesting shots, he’s disciplined, and just by looking at him, I would guess he’s now a hair over 6’4. He’s a huge guard at the point, and his stic on the defensive end reminds me a bit of Kirk Hinrich.
He’s decisive in the open court and doesn’t lack courage finishing at the rim against big bodies.
He’s not a playmaker. He drives well with his left and has a decent first step, even at this level, but he’s not special handling the ball, and malnourished as a guy who can run an offense. Doesn’t seem to have a grasp on understanding how to truly set up players. Most of his assists occur at the rim.
He’s got a hitch on his jump shot that should prove difficult to correct. Slow release. Shoots from his ear.
Jeremy’s main problem is that he lacks a point guard’s instinct, and shooting guard’s perimeter scoring. But he’s a competitor. I think he will have a serviceable 6-7 years in the league as a 9-12 man, and I think he’ll attract a lot of fans through his hard-nosed style and high character, rather than just his race.
He’s got a soldier’s attitude. I like Jeremy Lin a lot.
But, I think mentioning Lin’s name in the same paragraph as Gary Payton’s is blasphemous. I mean really, how dare you?
Did you even read the article?
Rhetorical question since you clearly didn’t. Sometimes, it’s easier to believe your preconceived biases and notions, rather than take a look at objective numbers. Whether you look at players from big schools or extremely small schools in weak conferences, Jeremy Lin’s comparables match up extremely favorably with past NBA players who have done well.
I looked at Jeremy Lin. A lot.
He won’t be as good as them. If the gist of the article contains anything that entertains the notion that Jeremy Lin is being to compared to Gary Payton in any way, than yes, I could care less about the article.
Your college career, and 4th quarter minutes in a decided game, are weak samples in a basis determining how a player will translate to the NBA level. Smart should have played Lin over Acie Law, but not this:
I’d rather GS just give him 25 mins a night next season and dump him if he truly can’t play, rather than keep him in limbo. Or, trade him since it’s clear other teams are willing to give him a shot on their rosters.
“If he can’t play” That’s a start. I think he can play, but nowhere near the level you’re suggesting.
“Just give him 25 minutes a night”. And give Stephen Curry 23 minutes a night! Brilliant! After all, Jeremy Lin is compared to “The Glove”, while Curry plays more like J.J. Reddick. I hear you loud and clear.
“Or, trade him since it’s clear other teams are willing to give him a shot on their rosters.”
Is it clear? How many teams do you know that have made offers?
You make it seem like Lin isn’t grateful just to be in the NBA on his hometown team that he followed growing up, as a kid. He wasn’t “good enough” to get drafted, and he’s coming off his rookie season. Give me a break! Gilbert or Monta didn’t crack the rotation much their rookie seasons, and instead of playing ball in the D-League, they just rode the bench.
Don’t turn this into a “bias” or “prejudice” race riot. It’s not. Yeah, I don’t think Jeremy is going to be great because he’s asian, and asians can’t be great. Right…. I’m starting to get this uninvited inkling that you’re the biased one.
He won’t be as good as them. If the gist of the article contains anything that entertains the notion that Jeremy Lin is being to compared to Gary Payton in any way, than [sic] yes, I could care less about the article.[sic]
So you admit that you do care about the article.
by jae on Jul 7, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Not only that
Not only that, but Jeremy Lin had the 2nd best assist to turnover ratio on the team, after Steph Curry. It looks even better if you look at Lin’s stats from mid-February to the end of the season. Extremely high assist/turnover ratio, steals/turnover ratio, shot 52% from the field. If you take out his first two months where he was adjusting to the NBA, his PER the last 9 months was above the average for a NBA starter.
Lin is Completely Undervalued
Here is more data about how completely undervalued Lin was last year; arguably the team’s 6th best player.
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2011/4/5/2093122/nba-analytics-reveal-coaching-negligence
When he finally got some playing time here is how he did his last 3 games:
Apr13 Portland. 23 mins, 12 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals. 5 for 8 shooting.
Apr11 Denver: 21 mins, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal.
Apr10 Kings: 14 mins, 4 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals.
He fills up the stat sheet efficiently in a way that helps his team win. Lin finished the season with a PER of 14.9, 6th best on the team, better than almost half the players in the NBA.
He finished with the 2nd highest adjusted plus/minus on the entire roster.
He had the highest per-48 minute steals and blocks of all NBA guards.
If you’re not going to play him, send him to a team that will actually value and use him like Dallas, LA, Houston, or Boston (not coincidentally teams that also enjoy a lot of success and actually use statistical analysis in making decisions). Seriously, Lin should just sign with another team and prove that GS is still inept in the front office. GS has let so many talented players go over the past few years, Lin doing well somewhere else would just be more of the same for GS.
you overvalue lin
it’s really too small of a sample size to determine how good lin actually is (smart’s fault).
some problems with your argument (excluding sample size, which is also a problem with almost all of his stats)
Lin finished the season with a PER of 14.9
PER is not a very good statistic.
He finished with the 2nd highest adjusted plus/minus on the entire roster.
well he only played in garbage time, because smart was too stubborn to try him out in real minutes. he’s probably one of the better 12th men in the league.
He had the highest per-48 minute steals and blocks of all NBA guards.
also partially due to garbage time. against better players, i highly doubt that he would average 4+ stls per 36. the best players in the nba don’t even get up there.
he is a solid defender, and an alright playmaker, but his jump shot is just awful at this point. if he can develop a jump shot, he will be a decent backup pg in the league. if not, he’s likely to remain as an end of the bench guy.
Jeremy Lin didn’t just have the 2nd best overall plus/minus on the team. Even with adjusted plus/minus, which factors out the talent level on the court, he still finished 2nd best on the team. It’s easy to make up reasons not backed with evidence to discount anything he does on the court, but bottom line why not give the kid some actual meaningful time and see if he can play or not. It’s almost as if people don’t want to see him succeed, and that by giving him time he’ll be proving people wrong which they don’t want. I’d rather GS just give him 25 mins a night next season and dump him if he truly can’t play, rather than keep him in limbo. Or, trade him since it’s clear other teams are willing to give him a shot on their rosters.
i'm all for giving him more time IF he can beat out jenkins for the backup PG
but to say give him 25 mins a night is insane. that would put him on the court more than steph
ideally you're looking at 10-15 mins a night from the backup PG slot
whether those mins go to jenkins or lin is up for grabs
ideally you’re looking at 10-15 mins a night from the backup PG slot
I tend to think that if you’re figuring on 10-15 minutes a night from a player, you’re really not considering that player for much of anything. I’d rather see those guys get 20 minutes a night and have some chance of getting a real rhythm going.
Ideally, I’d like to have 3 starters who are productive enough to send out there for 36 to 38 minutes. That’s enough rest to keep them healthy. The other 2 starters will get somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 minutes a night (plus or minus a couple) and tend to be limited by some specific flaw that requires more lineup adjustment to keep them productive (e.g. they’re not good enough jump shooters to leave in if another team slips into a zone for a while or they’re a big man who gets into foul trouble). Support these with three 20mpg backups typically (one ‘wing’, one ‘distributor’ and one ‘big’) to whom you’re giving enough minutes to really allow them to get into a game, to adjust to whatever is going on in order to be productive. That leaves about 10 minutes a game for the 9th man, who may be a different guy most nights, but tends to be an extreme specialist or a tall guy who can tie one of his own shoes with 6 fouls to give.
Obviously, the actual skillset of the players you have can change this. A true combo guard off the bench will play more, sometimes backing up a distributor, sometimes backing up a wing. A taller wing who can play the 4 in a small ball lineup may get more time as well, but in an idealized world, I think this sort of rotation tends to make the most of your team’s assets.
by jae on Jul 7, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
yea i was just assuming that with the depth we have at the wings
it’s unlikely we’d be tossing lin or jenkins out at the 2 spot. so any minutes they get are going to be the ones backing up steph, which really shouldn’t be more than 15 minutes a night
That's a great distribution break-down
Looking at the current roster and applying the same framework, the Warriors should look like this:
Curry 38 / Jenkins 15
Ellis 38 / Thompson 25
Wright 36
Lee 38
Udoh 36 / Biedrins 20
Most nights, the ten 9th-man minutes would likely go to Amundson. The Jeremy’s are the other possibilities based on the match-up and struggles of Jenkins/Thompson/ Biedrins, which we know will happen.
by eastbayglory on Jul 10, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't see Udoh getting 36 mpg
I’d say 28-30 will be his upper limit
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even 28-30 seems high for Udoh
though I imagine the closer he creeps up to 30 min the better defensively the roster will be, at least with its current construction.
Of course you’d like to add a big.
by eastbayglory on Jul 10, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
forgot some players
what about reggie getting some minutes, and al thornton, and i think they will play amundson around ten min a night, WHEN the lockout ends….
and your giving just garbage time to tyler and lin here…i think only a couple minutes less for curry ellis wright and lee, and about 25 min for udoh, which gives amundson and reggie each about ten minutes
The drafting of Klay Thompson
signaled the end for Reggie on the team.
by eastbayglory on Jul 10, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Except it probably didn't.
KOBE BRYANT IS DA GREA-TEST PLAYER IN DA HIS-TORY OF DA NBA- Warriors Head Coach Mark Jackson
Hand Down Man Down
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 10, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Most likely, it signaled what they considered the BPA.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 11, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
KOBE BRYANT IS DA GREA-TEST PLAYER IN DA HIS-TORY OF DA NBA- Warriors Head Coach Mark Jackson
Hand Down Man Down
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 11, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Ellis 38 / Thompson 25
Let’s see if Thompson is worth playing for a single minute before penciling him in for more than the average NBA player gets. #11 picks are more likely to be back of the bench guys who are soon out of the league than they are to be regular contributors. Thompson was #11 in a relatively thin draft.
Udoh 36 / Biedrins 20
Udoh jumps up to more minutes per night than Tim Duncan has averaged for his career? Good defender and (small sample size) good plus minus aside, that’s lofty for a guy who showed himself to be an inferior rebounder and real low volume, real low efficiency scorer. Let’s see if he get’s 20 before boosting him to more minutes than a future hall of famer has averaged for the last 7 years.
You've posted all of this a number of times
I look at his numbers and I see a 3rd string point guard. Great steals numbers, kinda mediocre to bad at everything else. He should play above Acie Law and Charlie Bell, but neither of those dudes are NBA players.
If you actually frequented this site, you’d know that I am a huge statfiend. I don’t appreciate you accusations of bias.
Seriously, Lin should just sign with another team and prove that GS is still inept in the front office. GS has let so many talented players go over the past few years, Lin doing well somewhere else would just be more of the same for GS.
You’re equating him to dudes like Antawn Jamison and Gilbert Arenas? Does that mean you expect Lin to be a seldom All Star?
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 1, 2011 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions
RE
I don’t believe you’re a “statfiend” as you describe yourself, when you say he’s bad to mediocre at everything else.
His shooting numbers were poor, he clearly is hesitant to shoot and hasn’t figure out when to drive/shoot within the flow of the offense yet. However, his assist rates, assist/turnover, rebound rate, steal rate, block rate, pretty much everything else is actually above average compared other NBA guards. His one negative is shooting, however his true FG% is so high before the pros as well as in the D-league that it’s clear he has the potential to be an extremely efficient offensive scorer.
So yes, I’m calling out your bias, when you seem to be either discounting or not even accepting all the standard or advanced stats which all say he is completely undervalued and underutilized on the team.
I don’t believe you’re a "statfiend" as you describe yourself, when you say he’s bad to mediocre at everything else.
I merely misremembered his stats. He’s better at taking care of the ball than I gave him credit for and he racks up assists at an average rate.
This is a terrible reason to think that I’m not a stats guy. Lin barely played last season. There were 400 players in the NBA who were more important for me to pay attention to. There several dudes on our team. I know stats. I spend a lot of time thinking about them. I don’t spend much time thinking about Lin in the same way that I don’t think too much about Jeff Adrien. I like both of them fine, but neither of them matter too much.
I would say that it is your bias that causes you to look at his stats and see anything special or even anything meaningful. He played <300 minutes all season.
advanced stats which all say he is completely undervalued and underutilized on the team.
Underutilized? Probably. I never disagreed. He was our 2nd best backup guard last season because there were things he was actually good at. He still isn’t that good.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 1, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Liar
2nd best backup point guard? You are the worst self described “stat fiends” I’ve seen if you think Acie Law was a better PG than Lin last year. Law was one of the 20 worst players in the entire league last year. Lin was much better than Law and arguably the team’s 6th best player on the entire roster. There is no measure whether it’s standard or advanced stats (PER, adjusted plus/minus, usage, per-36 rates, etc) that suggests Law was a better player. If you take out Lin’s first two months, even offensively he was an extremely efficient scorer both in the D-league as well as the last 3 months in the NBA.
“BayMind”, you may disagree with Rev’s take, but I see nothing in his posts that is deliberately misleading. Calling him a liar (meaning he was deliberately misstating something) is, as a result uncalled for. Insulting him was uncalled for.
It’s especially uncalled for when it’s clear you are not reading what he’s written terribly carefully. He didn’t call Lin our “2nd best backup point guard” as you’ve written, but our 2nd best backup guard. Please note that your introduction of the additional word makes for a rather different take, but one that doesn’t reflect what Rev actually wrote. I realize it’s easier to argue against the position you think someone took or wish someone took than against what people actually write, but it’s far less productive.
Back up guard, fool.
I’m talking about Reggie Williams. Think before you post. Reggie Williams is an actual NBA quality player.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 12, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
With his defense, composure, ball handling and penetration, I see someone who at least could be one of the first guys off the bench. Those stats posted by Bay are really impressive, even in garbage time. Excellent, really. If he can develop his passing and jump shot, I think he can start. Not a great chance of developing both, but I think he’s a nice guy to have off the bench.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
oh really
like derek fisher who averaged less than 7 ppg his first four seasons, never averaged more than 5 apg a season, only averages 26 mpg for his career?
or jj barea who had a win share of 0.1 and 0.5 his first two years and barely cracked the rotation?
or rondo? who lin has a pretty comparable per 36 stat line to rondo’s rookie year which also similiar to payton’s rookie year
yeah those guys sure were great right off the bat whether they were on good teams or bad teams, got minutes or came off the bench?
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jul 12, 2011 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually missed that Derek Fisher was on the list. There isn’t a player in the league that I have less respect for than Derek Fisher.
Also- Rondo and Lin all have a pretty big difference as rookies. Rondo actually played a meaningful amount of minutes. Lin’s stats don’t mean anything.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 12, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions
PER isn't a good metric
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 30, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
While I think it's true....
….that we under-performed last season and could compete for an 8th seed even with the current roster, it’s a big leap to expect our new draft picks to have significant impact in their rookie seasons. Late second rounders rarely even make the team, let alone become solid rotation players. We’re still lacking defensive players, and, depending on how Tyler works out, size.
Our depth was a major waekness last year.
But now you’re putting the pressure on 3 rookies including 2 second rounders. I hope jenkins is better than Law. I hope Klay is better than Reggie and I hope Tyler turns out to be a special player. But it’s all hope and expectations.
depth
I completely agree, but i am expecting thompson to be a much better version of Reggie WIlliams in his first year alone.
Given that the past two seasons Reggie has put up better per minute numbers against NBA competition than Klay did against college kids, I’d temper your expectations.
Klay’s still young enough where a big leap isn’t out of the question, but it’s rather silly to expect it. Expecting him as a rookie to be at Reggie’s level is extremely optimistic. Expecting him to be “much better” than Reggie is just foolish. I’d gladly bet you even money that as a rookie he won’t equal Reggie’s level of offensive production (in terms of scoring volume, scoring efficiency, and Ast/TO ratio) and rebounding. Scratch that, I won’t bet you, because it’d be like stealing your money.
The one area where it may be reasonable to expect a slight upgrade from Reggie is on defense, but that’s a bit harder to quantify. And it’s not like scouts have raved about Klay’s defensive prowess.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 30, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I believe last season counted as Reggie’s rookie season, as he was a late dleague call up the season before.
by Uwe Blog on Jun 30, 2011 7:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
it may be reasonable to expect a slight upgrade from Reggie is on defense
If Thompson is breathing, and conscious, he will by definition play better defense than Reggie Williams
by felix botticelli on Jul 2, 2011 4:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I hope you’re right. Otherwise, drfating Klay to replace Reggie is a lateral move at best, and likely a small step backwards (at least in the short term).
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 2, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I really want us to keep Reggie, what are the chances of that happening?
also.. Coach Jackson said if you don’t play defense you won’t play at all, does this mean curry, Ellis, Reggie and Lee will never see the floor? Hahaha
:GSW-707:
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jul 2, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I really want us to keep Reggie, what are the chances of that happening?
Better than you think.
KOBE BRYANT IS DA GREA-TEST PLAYER IN DA HIS-TORY OF DA NBA- Warriors Head Coach Mark Jackson
Hand Down Man Down
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 4, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
doubt it.
klay wont match reggie on offense right away. reggie was the leading NCAA scorer two years in a row.
and klay looks like another kevin martin: tall frame and no lateral movement
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jul 12, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
if klay was another kevin martin, i'd have no problem with the pick
but he’s just not.
Yeah.
He’s K-Mart without the free throws.
KOBE BRYANT IS DA GREA-TEST PLAYER IN DA HIS-TORY OF DA NBA- Warriors Head Coach Mark Jackson
Hand Down Man Down
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 12, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
he's K-MART without the ugly release.
:GSW-707:
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jul 17, 2011 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
If he ended up being Kevin Martin, that would be great
and more than I expect out of him.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 17, 2011 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions
i meant on defense
klay definitely isnt going to be better than reggie on defense just because he’s taller because his college defense is comparable to kevin martin’s defense in the pros
pretty much never there when you need it
The realist keepin it real amongst the surrealists
R.I.P. Big Homey Nate Dogg: "Cuz Iiiiiiiiii have ne-evv-ver met a giiiiiiiiiirrrrrrllllllllllllllllllll tha-at I loved in the whole wide wooorrrlllllddddddd"
by starbury_to_s-jaxci2000 on Jul 13, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
klay definitely isnt going to be better than reggie on defense just because he’s taller
Ah, if only this were soccer and the top of a guy’s head was used for defense.
You see, in reality, wingspan and standing reach are what really matters, not where the top of your head is.
Wingspan
Klay 6’9"
Reggie 6’9.25"
Standing Reach
Klay 8’7.5"
Reggie 8’7"
Very similar, despite the “height” difference, wouldn’t you say? Add in the fact that Reggie’s vert (36.5") is much greater than Klay’s (31.5"), and there really is no logical argument that Klay has the better physical tools.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
yeah
height doesn’t even matter in the stare-down
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jul 18, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Al Thornton sucks
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jun 30, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
yes he does
I wasn’t sure if Reggie is still on the team, then we can put him at 2 and Klay at 3 off the bench.
And pray to god that Udoh and Tyler can play defense by themselves.
its a rotation of a 40 win team.
YAA!! for the dubs being average the last 20 yrs.
it sucks being a warrior fan
Its fun being a Warrior fan
Always rooting for the underdog lol
All Players On The Roster Are Not Part Of The Rotation.
When all players are healthy and not in foul trouble most teams give just 8 players rotation minutes when the game is still on the line. The rest of the roster gets the garbage minutes when the game is already decided or only join the rotation when a player is injured or in foul trouble. There is a good reason for this. It is really hard to find enough minutes to keep all the players of a rotation deeper then 8 players productive and efficient.
With this in mind the rotation for the Warriors with the current roster should be and likely would be as follows:
Bigs: Lee, Biedrins, Udoh
Smalls: Ellis, Curry
Swings: Wright, Williams, Thompson
Personally, I will be both suprised and disappointed if the Warriors waste any dollars re-signing Thornton. This means that the garbage time, foul trouble, and injury replacement backups will be as follows:
Bigs: Amundson, Tyler
Smalls: Jenkins, Lin, Bell(still has a year left on his contract)
Swings: Adrien
However, with all that said it is very likely that the Warriors will add at least one new rotation big to the mix thru trade or free agency and thus either drop out of the roation or trade on of the eight rotation players above.
Swings: Adrien
Er … are we talking about the same Adrien? Being short for a big man doesn’t make you a wing. Lee, Biedrins, and Udoh all have more refined wing skills (passing, ballhandling, court vision) than Adrien. I’m not even sure Adrien has dribbled a basketball in an NBA game.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 30, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I Didn't Know This Was An Option
I thought he was signed for next year just like Lin,
by giantsrainman on Jun 30, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
haha i saw that too and i was like, "Huh?"
him and thompson both being 6’7 doesnt make them the same thing
He Is A 4 That Can Play Some 3
Wright is a 3 that can play some 4 and 2. Williams and Thompson are 2;s that can play some 3. So, yes, there are all swingmen.
by giantsrainman on Jun 30, 2011 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
For one thing, 3-4 is not a “swing man,” by any standard definition. It’s a ’tweener forward.
Jeff Adrien does not remotely resemble a swing man or a ‘tweener forward. What makes you think he can “play some three”? He can’t dribble, pass, or shoot from the perimeter, and he’s way too slow to guard 3s. He’s no more suited to small forward than Manute Bol. (Actually maybe less so, since Manute could occasionally hit threes).
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jun 30, 2011 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Then We Disagree
I have seen Jeff play plenty and he can defend a 3 and is a slasher on offense from the 3. Yes, he is a natural 4 but he can play 3.
by giantsrainman on Jul 1, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreeing to disagree implies that your arguments are equal or nearly equal.
Factually, you’re wrong. Jeff Adrien does not, and cannot, play 3. His offense is bad, even for a 4. According to 82games.com, he played the 3 for all of 4 minutes and it was a garbage time lineup. Looking at the lineup, it probably had Radmanovic at the 3 and not Adrien.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 1, 2011 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Guard=1-2
Swingman=2-3
Forward=3-4
Big=4-5
Most players can play 2 positions, except at the ends. There are point guards who can’t play the 2 and 5s who can’t play the 4 due to lack of skills or athleticism/too big.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 1, 2011 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Not The Way I See It
Bigs are limited to 4/5, Smalls are limited to 1/2, and Swings can play at least two of 2/3/4. I do not see the point of choosing to reduce to just four catagories from five as you just have not gained enough insitght into their versitility.
by giantsrainman on Jul 1, 2011 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
“The way you see it” is not in keeping with the standard definition.
A Swingman (also known as a Wing) is a basketball term denoting a player who can play both the small forward (the so-called “3”) and shooting guard (the so-called “2”) positions, and, in essence, swing between the shooting guard and small forward positions.
This really isn’t that complicated. Adrien’s a standard-issue “big” who has the misfortune of not being particularly big. (Nice wingspan and excellent rebounding skills, though).
There will be no extra point!
I Do Not Find This 'Standard Defination" Useful.
I understand tit and the conventions from which it comes. I just do not see the value in narrowing the catagories form 5 to 4 which is all this defination accomplishes. That is why I choose to define “Swings” as opposed to “swingman” as I have and thus go with 3 catagories instead of 4. Again, I am defining “Swings” as players that can play at least two of 2/3/4.
by giantsrainman on Jul 1, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I Do Not Find This ’Standard Defination" Useful.
Haha. Dude, it’s useful inasmuch as people need commonly accepted definitions of words to communicate. Your use of the term is incorrect. If you want to make up a new term to define “players that can play at least two of 2/3/4,” feel free. You’re not free, however, to make up new definitions for terms that already exist — I mean, assuming you’re actually interested in communicating with other people. If you’re not interested in communicating with other people, let me know and I’ll close your account. Thanks.
(On a side note, Adrien doesn’t play at least two of 2/3/4, but I think we’ve covered that already).
There will be no extra point!
Ouch, Sleepy. The death penalty! He may be the next great innovator of the game!
As Galileo once whispered: …“but, it’s round”. lol
Well, I didn’t mean to raise the specter of a ban for such a minor infraction (if you can even call misusing hoops terminology an infraction). I was just taking the expression “I don’t find standard definition[s] useful” to its logical extreme. In forums like this, communicating as clearly as possible is essential. That usually entails resigning yourself to commonly accepted definitions of things.
There will be no extra point!
by Sleepy Freud on Jul 2, 2011 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Again, I am defining "Swings" as players that can play at least two of 2/3/4.
That is unfortunate. It puts your definition out of alignment with the one that most people seem to be using. This leads to a considerable deal of confusion when you try to converse with not compensatory gain seen elsewhere. Using one’s own definitions where others exist is a terrible strategy if you want to be understood and taken seriously. I offer a friendly piece of advice that you don’t do it without presenting a very compelling reason to do so.
so you consider glen davis a swingman?
thats pretty laughable
To Be Specific
I am defining “Swings” not “swingman”. I find little value in reducing 1/2/3/4/5 to Bigs, Forwards, Swingmen, Guards. I find it much more useful to reduce it to Bigs (can play 4 or 5 or both only), Smalls (can play 1 or 2 or both only). and Swings (can play 3 and 4 or 2 or both).
by giantsrainman on Jul 1, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
the point is not to narrow down the categories
it’s to more accurately describe what type of player someone is. lumping in anyone who plays the 2, 3, or 4 into the same category does an awful job at that. it puts someone like kobe into the same category as someone like glen davis.
the way i see it
it’s more accurate to categorize players as
point guards
combo guards
swingmen
tweener forwards
and bigs
most players will fit into those exclusively 1 of those 5 categories, unlike the normal PG, SG, SF, PF, C
That’s a pretty good characterization of most players. I can think of a few examples of players who don’t fit in one of those categories cleanly, but it’s the minority.
In terms of figuring out tasks of who is on the floor at any given time, I think it simplifies down even further in to distributors, wings, and bigs. Point guards and combo guards will fill distributor minutes, combo guards, swingmen and tweeners fill out your wings, and tweener forwards and bigs use up your bigmen minutes. The adjustment of who is doing what really depends on who you have and whether or not you’re trying to ‘go small’ or ‘go big.’ Again, not concrete, but it seems like most lineups can be broken down into this, certainly more cleanly than the 1-5 position designations.
I'd tell you how wrong you are
but Sleepy and kino did a pretty good job of it. If they didn’t convince you, then you’re hopeless.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 1, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
bell??? after a 1 game suspension today, he will be gone
to many guards/small forwards on the team. amundson has that option to opt out or take the option to stay at 2 mill. should we look at greg odom? i know injuries but he is now a free agent but portland can match any offer. the warriors need to clear some dead weight like, bell, thornton,lin, and maybe adrien because of the new players we got in the draft.
by sports with steve on Jun 30, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
what do you mean he will be gone?
hes still under contract
lol
another year being paid to do nothing.
"who wants to do some heroin? I only have one needle so we will need to share. Daniel Tosh of Tosh.0"
by chupamelapolla on Jun 30, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
same team as last year
Plus 3 rookies and minus several vets. It’s unfair to judge this team yet because of the lockout looming, but we will have a really good idea about what this management is really made of once they start working on free agent signings. I’m pretty ok with bringing back our same starting 5 for now as I think they will get better with experience. But adding Klay Thompson to our bench and bringing back roughly the same bench doesn’t do ANYTHING for me. I want to see us add a quality center to the rotation.
roughly the same bench?
hardly. getting rid of vlad and acie law is huge. bringing in three rookies with great potential is huge. signing any free agents at the 4 or 5 is huge. the bench is going to be totally different next season. it will be much much better.
"who wants to do some heroin? I only have one needle so we will need to share. Daniel Tosh of Tosh.0"
by chupamelapolla on Jun 30, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
general management
Obviously, riley, lacob and all the others realize our needs at center..
By the beginning of the season, we WILL have fulfilled most of our needs by adding multiple (quality?) bigs…
This is how I see the Team
PG: Curry, Lin, Jenkins
SG: Ellis, Williams
SF: Wright, Thompson
PF: Lee, Amundson
C: Udoh, Biedrins, Tyler
I haven’t included Bell as I’m hoping he’s not on the roster at the start of the season whenever and if that occurs. Clay can obviously be slotted in at the SG as well, so that leaves some depth needed at the Small Forward position. We have two empty roster spots maybe three or four depending on Amundson and if we buyout Bell, who seems like a total loser.
It's all about the killer cross-over baby!
by warriorsfiend on Jun 30, 2011 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I can see a veteran point guard and a 4 and 5 added to that. it will be much better depth this next season.
"who wants to do some heroin? I only have one needle so we will need to share. Daniel Tosh of Tosh.0"
by chupamelapolla on Jun 30, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I think a greater question will be how minutes will be distributed with our overload of guards.
by Prince.Charming on Jun 30, 2011 4:49 PM PDT reply actions
Assuming we resign almost all our major players
Can we force all our players to resign? I’d like to keep Curry, but if the other ones want to resign, that’s fine with me.
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
Lol, the new compliment and complement.
KOBE BRYANT IS DA GREA-TEST PLAYER IN DA HIS-TORY OF DA NBA- Warriors Head Coach Mark Jackson
Hand Down Man Down
by GovernorStephCurry on Jun 30, 2011 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions
looks like the kid was right!
Assuming we resign almost all our major playersCan we force all our players to resign? I’d like to keep Curry, but if the other ones want to resign, that’s fine with me.
locked out
…EVERYBODY’S FIRED!!
"There’s no such thing as off the charts, just get a bigger piece of paper. If you can’t figure that out you shouldn’t be charting anything" - Skep
by Duby Dub Dubs on Jul 1, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
just one problem.
we may have loads of Guards now but where still weak at the C position. Udoh isn’t even 6’10 and he’s are starting centre.
Agree. Without some major help in the lane via trade, we are very weak there.
Unless, Tyler lays out a maturity and game that surprises the dickens out of all of us!
from the news i've heard out of biedrins lately
i would guess that biedrins would be our starting center (not that it really matters who starts, beans and udoh will probably split time)
By the way, Evanz, I found BayMind's stats on Lin interesting. Have you run through your stat cruncher?
Curious about their pure individual statistical validity. The deductions and conclusions from those stats is another process that has to be conducted by considering many other factors such as utilization, rotations, etc.
IIRC
EZPM likes Lin. The big caveat is that if you doubled Lin’s playing time, he still wouldn’t have played a meaningful amount of minutes.
You are not a warrior; you're a beginner!
by Reverend_Randy on Jul 1, 2011 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Lin looks positive from the stats I look at
Synergy, ezPM, RAPM
all show him being positive, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on him yet
_______________________________________________________________
The City: A Golden State Warriors-Centric NBA Blog
"Also, Evanz’ posts are easiest to hide while working. The chats and graphs can look like actual work related data to the lazy walker-by’s eye" (tafkasam)
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of science." (Lord Kelvin)
dubs
How long do all of you think this lockout will last? im guessing it will end a month into what should be the regular season….
If the season starts on time (lockout ends in the nxt week or so) doall of you see Riley and Co signing an actual impact free agent? marc gasol?nene….?
and i actually think taking a 9 mil? chance on david west might not be too bad…since he already turned down 7.5 mil, you have to assume he wants a bit more or to get away from New Orleans,…
I'm worried that it will last the entire season.
The owners want the players to give up way too much and aren’t offering anything in return.
http://nbawarriors.wordpress.com/
Seriously.
This would negate all the momentum the NBA has now.
KOBE BRYANT IS DA GREA-TEST PLAYER IN DA HIS-TORY OF DA NBA- Warriors Head Coach Mark Jackson
Hand Down Man Down
by GovernorStephCurry on Jul 4, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
The owners have already given up a lot, every year. They’re losing money, while the players, taking zero risk, make huge profits. The reason the owners won’t budge, is because they have more to gain by simply not paying their players’ huge salaries. The players, not playing, have everything to lose, having in the past been paid superbly with zero risk.
I'm the soul brotha' like no other!
Wow
Your optimism has you way too hyped about this team. I would say this is a 9-10 seed tops. The West is really tough. Let’s not forget that.
Of course
If they can add Nene I think that puts them around the 7 seed.
If curry becomes the superstar we all hope he can be then possibly 4-5 seed.
We still are a horrible rebounding team, that should be their (front office) goal, get some guys who can rebound!
:GSW-707:
by OaklandsFinest30 on Jul 1, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
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